WEBVTT - Positively Gam: Finding Forgiveness and Redemption: A Conversation with Ian Manuel 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.160 Have you ever wanted a safe space where you can 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.840 just exist, where for a moment in time, you can 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.440 be you, with all the intricacies and parts of you 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.640 that people don't always understand. Welcome to in the deep 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.840 stories that shape us. I'm your host, Zach Stafford, and 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.560 each episode we create a space to be you, all 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:25.279 of you and all your messy and complicated glory. Every 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.120 story shares what it means to be a black and 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.960 Latin X man living with different hardships, whether it's a 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.720 struggle of identity, discrimination or health, and how they've managed 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.080 to push forward despite the circumstance. We hope to get closer, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:38.960 even it's just a little to a road of healing 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:50.440 and understanding. Hey everyone, welcome back. So today I want 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.680 to talk about something that affects us all I think, 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.480 and that's the idea of how we see ourselves versus 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.520 how others see us. How many times do people think 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.120 they actually know our story, the real story based on 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.800 assumptions or cheeky photo we've posted online, or some water 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.800 cooler talk we've had in passing, And how many times 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.480 have others just gotten it all wrong? Ian Manuel's life 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:13.679 is one of those stories. That we think we've heard before, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.640 and chances are you've probably heard his story narrated by 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.480 countless journalists covering the events of one late summer day 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.240 that completely changed the course of his life at fourteen, 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.119 or maybe you've heard about the prolific lawyer Brian Stevenson 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.880 who helped him gain his liberty after twenty six years 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.520 of imprisonment. But Ian's story doesn't begin and end with 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.640 a bout robbery attempt. It begins with his mother and brother, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:38.800 who deeply, deeply hurt him, and his grandmother, who did 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.000 her best to give him a semblance of a normal childhood. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:46.120 Growing up in Central Park Village in Tampa, Florida. I 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.760 grew up in a single parent home. But my grandmother, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.760 Lynda Johnson, spoiled me rotten because you know, I felt 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.320 like later on in life and evaluating why she spoiled 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.640 me so much was the fact that she didn't take 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.840 care of our own child, my dad, Jimmy, So she 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.960 poured all the love that she didn't give my dad 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.120 into me. I went to Catholic school for a first 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.360 grade and second grade and half a third grade. I 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.200 received awards and reading and writing. I was very artistic, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.800 meaning I could draw real good back then. But you 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.079 know what they say, when you don't practice something, it 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.200 has a tendency to leave you. So I started getting 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.640 in trouble later on, around age eleven, man in the 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.959 sixth grade, hanging with the wrong crowd. But before then, man, 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.160 you know I was I was brought up by my mother, 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.679 Peggy Manuel, and she loved me the best she could. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.640 But we had a mutualist relationship as well. When I 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.480 was with my grandmother, there was nothing but love. When 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.320 I was with my mother, that was loving anger. She 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.639 was a Gemini and I actually seen uh both sides 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.920 of that personality. Uh you know, that was stuff good 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:59.600 and gentle side, and then there was this angry you know, 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.919 as I talk about in my book, my time would come. 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.280 You know, my mother used to say things to me 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.160 that I don't think any woman should ever say to 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.560 a child, like I found you on my doorstep, or 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.359 why were you so dog skinned? You know, it had 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.280 a bad effect on me. Man. I used to take 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.440 bleached baths to try to make my skin It's like 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.080 uh complexion that my mother would careful and love more. 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.079 You know, I love my dog skin now, but at 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.920 the time. You know, the hurtful thing she said to 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.000 me made me not want to be dark. So I 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.079 love spending time with my grandmother because I knew there 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.480 was not gonna be two sides of the corn with her. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.080 There was gonna be one side, and that was strictly 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.600 unconditional love. And you know, grandmother would take me to 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:45.960 Tampa Bay Mall when I was a kid, and she 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.520 used to work. She worked twenty six years. She didn't 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.360 know how to read and write. I remember her. She 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.240 get over time and check from Morrison Cafeteria and her 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.760 social Security check and she take them to the bank. 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.720 And I fear that we was gonna leave the bank 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.040 empty handed at them all because the teller would say, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.520 um Ms Johnson, can you just sign your name and 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.880 I'll get you your money, And my grandmother would invariably 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.560 always say I don't know how to spell my name, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.479 and the teller would say, that's all white, Mrs Johnson, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:22.159 just signed X, that's good enough. And I felt a 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.200 huge relief because in my mind I had all these 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.479 fantasies and dreams of that I was gonna get this 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.760 toy and that toy and these cookies and uh so 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:32.880 when they tell us that we were still gonna be 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.279 able to cast those checks. It was a huge relief 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.920 to me. But growing up and as I got old, 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.520 I was like, Wow, my grandmother couldn't even read it write, 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.080 and that's what I do better than anything in the world. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:48.320 So it was something to think about. The love that 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.000 Ian received from his grandmother was a complete one, a 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.080 v from the relationship he had with his mother. But 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.520 there was one other person that really let him down, 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.599 his brother. And through these experiences of high highs low lows, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.200 he was marked by the outside world, one that should 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:06.480 have protected him as quote a problem that's managed inside 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:11.640 the walls of an institution. So initially, my brother was 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.719 somebody that I looked up to. He was a very 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.600 popular guy in the city, in the neighborhood. He was like, uh, 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.120 the leader of the neighborhood. We didn't have gangs in Tampa, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:28.440 but we had neighborhoods against neighborhoods that would fight each other. 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.280 They called him Big John John And so seeing how 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.080 everyone respected my brother, I wanted to be like him. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.880 I wanted to grow up to have that type of 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.320 name recognition. You know. I love my brother for a 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:48.040 long time, and and he was somebody that I looked 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.680 up to at the time. My brother took advantage of 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.240 me and sexually abused me when I was like six 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.560 years old, when I was in kindergarten, and uh, you know, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.400 I couldn't understand it why he would do something like that, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.000 But it was something that that happened and he was 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.760 incarcerated for and something that we never really talked about 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.279 after he was released from jail. We just like put 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.680 it behind us. But I can honestly say that he 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.520 broke a bond between us man because he used to 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.160 protect me all the time. So I'll never be able 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.839 to understand and comprehend why he would do something like 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.000 that to someone he loved and cared for. He's deceased now, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.720 But I think everyone was ashamed that had occurred, the 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.440 person that did it, the mother that allowed it to 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.200 happened under her roof, and the person that had happened 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.200 to you know, I think that was just a sense 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.000 of shame, and so to not deal with that pain, 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.240 which I feel now as an adult looking back on it, 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:52.720 to not speak on it really just buried the pain 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.359 within and no one never got to totally heal from it, 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.080 you know, and you you have to address things that happened. Man, 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.080 It's something that I feel like we left on the 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.799 table that shouldn't have been left on the table. Ian 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.440 as a young boy at this point being emotionally and 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.360 physically abused by the people and systems that are supposed 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.600 to protect him, and then in the midnight eighties he 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.320 has to face a new reality his mom being diagnosed 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:29.120 with HIV. Now, surprisingly, my mother was very vocal about 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:33.320 being HIV positive. It wasn't something that she heard from 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.560 the world, me or anybody. Uh. She started doing AIDS 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.840 awareness work, taking me with her to pass out AIDS 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:46.560 pamphlets condoms throughout several neighborhoods in Tampa. She'd take me 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.160 to the AIDS quote when it came to Tampa and 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.120 we signed our name. That AIDS quote I think still 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.240 floats around America somewhere. I probably could go find my 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.960 name on it if I'm lucky. But seriously, she was 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.560 just very vocal and outspoken about being HIV positive and 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.280 hammered at home in my brain to right now, to 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.720 this day, I don't have unprotected sex. Even when I 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:17.240 had a girlfriend like I would have protected sex, and 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.800 so it's you know, that's something that I'm very, very 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:25.480 afraid of contracting HIV because my mother died of that disease. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:30.000 I lost the person that I loved a lot to 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.920 a horrible disease, and I swar to myself that I 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.160 would do everything to protect myself from ever contracting the virus. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:38.960 You know, I was a child, I couldn't envision my 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:43.160 mother dying. My mother was still a healthy woman, like 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.480 healthy in the sense that she was over two hundreds 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.760 something pounds, like two thirty pounds, and I just couldn't 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:57.240 comprehend my strong, vocal mother being torn apart by this 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:02.120 terrible disease. She passed in June, like a week before 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:07.120 her birthday. Actually, uh, June eighth nine. Yeah, I remember, 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.680 and uh vividly. I was in solitary confine it but 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.199 uh the sergeant came and got me and UH took 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.079 me to the chapel of the prison chapel, and uh 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.960 on the walk to the chapel, the guy, the sergeant 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.560 asked me, um, and has anyone in your family been sick? 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.720 And I was like, yeah, my mom. And you wouldn't 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.959 believe the thoughts that you're going the prayers that you're 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.560 saying while you walk into the chapel, like, God, anybody 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.079 but my mom. Don't let it be my mom, Let 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.800 it be my brother, Let it be anybody but my mom. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.960 That's this is the thoughts that's going through my head. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:46.760 And I got to the chapel and I just remember 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:52.360 sitting down black guy afro glasses. I sat across from her, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.400 and he said, Uh, your brother called, and so right 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.000 then I knew it wasn't my brother, Like my word 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.760 spears was about to be realized. And he said, Uh, 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.720 your brother called and told me your mother had passed away, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.720 and uh, I'm sorry. I called the hospital um to 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:18.400 confirm and they have confirmed her death. And so now 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.160 I'm giving you your phone call to your family to 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.200 talk to your brother about what has just happened. And yeah, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.839 so I remember, and its vividens happened yesterday, and so 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.280 even talking about it now, it's like I'm visualized being 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.120 back in that office. This is almost like a therapy 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.000 session because I haven't talked about this type of stuff 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:41.800 in a while. Ian was nineteen years old, sitting in 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.080 solitary confinement when his mom passed. We've heard about the 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.080 events that landed him in prison as a young boy 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.640 countless times. Three older friends, the guys he considered his community, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.880 convinced him to head to the downtown area and commit 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.520 a robbery. Ian says that the mom is leading up 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.600 to the robbery were like a game of hot potato, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.880 the boys passing off the gun to one another, indecisive 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.880 about who would follow through with the robbery. Finally, his 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.560 friend Mikey, makes an executive decision. Give it to Ian. 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.840 He's not scared, He'll do it, he says. They sat 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:11.960 in the car waiting for the next random person to 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.320 walk by to make their move, and the person who 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.120 walked by was debbue Bakery and her friend. But as 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.320 the young boys followed through with the plan to ask 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.080 them for change for a twenty dollar bill, something happened 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.600 that made her scream an Ian shot in a panic. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.160 A few days later, at only fourteen years old, he 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.000 was advised to plead guilty by his lawyer. Ian's mother 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.160 also pressure him and to plead guilty, promised the sentence 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.840 of fifteen years. He agreed, but instead he was sentenced 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.280 as an adult to life in prison without the possibility 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:45.880 of parole. First of all, I couldn't comprehend life without parole. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.319 I had just turned fourteen two weeks prior. All this 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.160 legal jargon at the time didn't mean nothing to me. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.920 A life sentence, I thought was twenty years. I did 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:00.720 not know life meant until your demand. I did not 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.480 know life meant that I would not be released until 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.679 the end of my life. Um So the only thing 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.800 going through my mind was I was going to prison 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.000 and I was not going home. That's what I comprehended. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.040 That's the only thing that I could comprehend. I wrote 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.120 my mother in prison, blaming her for being in prison 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.480 with a life sentence, and I distinctively remember her writing 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.560 me back, saying, boy, don't try to lay that guilt 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.160 trip on me. Had you not been out there robbing 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.200 and shooting people, your ask when being prisoned quote unquote. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.000 But I really took it to heart, you know, not 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.160 trying to blame other people for my problems, but that 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:47.040 I would not have had a life sentence. Had and 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.440 I probably would have, but you know, who knows, I 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.760 was thirteen. Maybe the jury would have had some leaning 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.040 and seeing on me. You know, I don't know, but 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.160 I just felt that my mom misled me man, and 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.280 she she failed as a mother to protect me from 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.520 the system. I just don't know how you moved past that. 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.800 Did you ever moved past it with her before she passed? Uh? 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:17.680 To be honest, I don't think I ever did. I 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.439 don't think I ever did, because I felt like she 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.720 let me down at one of the most vulnerable times 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.480 in my life. So to recap Ian his fourteen a 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:32.199 literal child sitting in solitary confinement, being raised by correctional officers, 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.800 and a system that failed to protect him. But even 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.040 through these lonely moments, his imagination kept him going and 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:43.960 sparked a new love for an unexpected interest poetry. Confinement calms. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:47.400 The first day that I entered in prison, but I 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.679 was only for three weeks. I was placed in solitary 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.880 confinement the first day I went to prison based on 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.760 the fact that I was fourteen, but that was only 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.280 for three weeks at the reception center. After that, I 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.640 was transferred to an adult prison. While I was placed 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.960 in jail, a real population and giving all the privileges 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.720 if you can call them that, as an adult prisoner, 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.480 and uh, I rebelled because I wasn't an adult and 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.880 the officers would yell at me. I would yell back. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.760 I would do typical teenage behavior, stuff like I would 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.720 be in an unauthorized areas what new kids do when 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.120 they're young, They're in places they're not supposed to be. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.880 The officers would curse at me. I would curse back. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.760 I would get in fights. I uh walk in the 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.880 grass when I was supposed to walk on the sidewalk, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.800 and all of that would I would get right ups. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:36.360 And if you get enough, right up, and they label 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.840 you a management problem, unable to be controlled in the 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.200 general population. So I was placed in long term solitary 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:46.560 confinement in November nineteen ninety two, and it was a 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.200 place I would stay until November two thousand ten. So 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.720 for eighteen secutive years I was in solitary confinement. You're 0:14:54.720 --> 0:15:00.359 a kid growing up in solitary confinnment by yourself. What 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.840 she was going through your head during this time? Are 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.880 you reading? How are you taking care of yourself? What 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.160 were the days like? Oh? They were boring. It was 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.360 filled with monotoney. You know. I had to find my way. Man, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.160 I was growing up in prison. But not only was 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.640 I growing up in prison, I was boring up inside 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.120 of a cell, the size of a walk in closet 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:23.400 or freight elevator. You know, so it was difficult, man, 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.440 I'm not gonna lie. I started out reading urban novels, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.520 Donald Goran's Iceberg Slim, and then, you know, over the years, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.120 my mentality grew. You know, I started reading fountain Head 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.640 by An rand Uh, The Seat of the Soul by 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.440 Gary Zoukal, The Power of Now by E Cart Totally 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.800 the autobiography of Malcolm X. I read thousands of books 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:49.040 in solitary, but the thing that changed my life Albert 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.280 Einstein says that imagination is more important than knowledge, and 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.240 it was my imagination that sustained me. Thank God for 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:01.280 my childlike imagination. Someone sent me Tupucks Currents book The 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:05.080 Roles that Grew from Concrete, and I fell in love 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.120 with the poetry, and I started rewriting two part poems 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.359 and sharing with my fellow prisoners. And then the prisoners 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.520 loved it so much they started paying me to write 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.120 their girlfriends and their wives poetry. And next thing, you know, man, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:25.320 I I felt alive again. I felt something of value 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.200 that happened to offer the world. I mean, you don't 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:30.160 know what It's like the first poem that I wrote 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.320 that really got some recognition was a born called Genie 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.920 in the Bottle, and it's about solitary confinement, and I 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.440 love to share it with you right now. It says 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.360 I'm the genie in the bottle. The world has forgotten. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.840 They put me in this abyss and closed up the top. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.600 I was a little boy when they did what they did, 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.000 but time continued to tick, and I'm no longer a kid. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.360 My mother is dead and so is my father. I've 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:07.119 been abandoned by family while trapped in this bottle, but 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.760 I hold on the hope that someone will open the top, 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.480 answer my prayers and help me out. Sometimes people pick 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.280 up the bottle and put that eye to the whole. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.560 But instead of compassion, acting different and cold, I suffer 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.880 sensory deprivation, a lost sense of direction. There's no mirror 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.560 in this bottle for me to see my reflection. They say, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:40.800 being lonely and alone are two different definitions, but it's 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:45.040 only me in this bottle, so I fit both descriptions. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.000 What I need is a friend, someone to extend the hand. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.840 It could be as simple as picking up a pen, 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.520 someone who cares accepts me for who I am, my 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.720 magna netic personality and my baggage from the past. Someone 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.520 who helps here the sorrow will work on building out 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:13.399 to morals. Someone who refuses to leave me to die 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:22.000 in this bottom. It allowed me to reclaim my sense 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.199 of freedom. Listen, God gives each and every one of 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.159 us a gift. My gift just happens to be the 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.679 ability to compose words and ways that move people. People 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.040 ask me, how did you survive? Man? You know, not 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.520 only did I survived. I survived with my sanity, my talent, 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.440 and my humanity and tact and that was a tall 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.240 order to do. But I will say, despite all of that, 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:46.760 I would have died in prison had it not been 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.480 for Brian Stevenson and the Equal Justice Initiative taking my 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.480 case and two thousand six and eventually appealing to the U. S. 0:18:55.480 --> 0:19:00.159 Supreme Court to overturn all juvenile life sentences that lead 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.800 to my release in two thousand sixteen. So despite the 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:09.000 freedom that I felt in writing, my physical freedom would 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.480 have never came had it not been for God sending 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.920 me the best lawyer in America. When you found out 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.320 these cases were being appealed and that you had won. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.000 What was that day? Where were you? What was going 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.720 on in your head? I was listening to a small 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.680 a m FM transistor radio and solitary confoundly that I 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.840 shouldn't have had that someone had smuggled to me. And 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.320 I was listening to NPR, and um it came on 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.520 and like at the top of the hour, like one o'clock, 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.240 and they said, and the U. S. Supreme Court, in 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:43.399 a five four decision has overturned all life sentences for 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.040 juveniles if they have not committed a non homicide crime. 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.119 And they went on to the next story. And I 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.680 had to wait thirty agonizing minutes to hear this again. 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.399 And when I listened to it again, they said a 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.440 six three decision, but it was still in my favorite 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.919 and I just screamed, man, I just screamed loud. I'm like, 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.800 it's over, it's over. I just remember screaming it's over, 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.320 and I thought it was, but it wasn't. Because when 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.000 I went back to court in two thousand and ten, 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:15.320 thinking I was gonna be released because my sentence was 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.320 deemed cruel and unusual punishment and unconstitutional, the State of 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.560 Florida said, your honor, we are killing the U. S. 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.159 Supreme Court decision, and everyone in the court room was 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.440 stunned because there was like, there's nothing to a field. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:32.359 This came from the highest court in the land, and 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:37.440 they said, trying to catch twenty two Yes, yea honor. 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.639 But the U. S. Supreme Court said, this is for 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:46.919 juveniles who committed non homicide offenses. Mr Manual committed attempted homicide, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.439 which falls under the homicide statue, so we don't believe 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.080 that this law should apply to him. So they sent 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.600 me back to prison, and they appealed to the Florida 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.640 Supreme Court, who refused to hear their appeal. They appealed 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.720 to the U. S. Supreme Court, who denied search where 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.840 meaning they denied. They appealed as well. And I went 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.879 back to court in two thousand eleven thinking I was 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.760 going home, but I didn't. I got back into judge 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.760 said something before he went in his chambers to deliberate, 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:17.560 to let me know I wasn't going home that day. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:22.760 He said there was a statement made about rehabilitation. However, 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:29.360 when Mr Manuel's crime happened, the legislative intent was to punish, 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.040 not rehabilitate, And he went in his chambers to deliberate, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.440 and he came back out, and he afforded my life sentences, 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.720 and in place of my life sentences, he sentenced me 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.520 to sixty five years in prison. I went back to prison, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.600 and I wrote this poem called My Time Will Come. 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:48.040 The poem says, I promise you the print of my 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.639 question has a purpose, and the same person that you 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:56.239 persecute will one day be worshiped. Though I stand before you, 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:01.200 bat chested and shirtless, with my soul and emotions naked, 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:07.080 just wanting to be nurtured. Yeah, despite the desperation, desertion, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.639 and hurting, my time gonna come. Though I compose this 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.960 poem not knowing if I'll ever be able to perform 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.760 it in an auditorium, I do it with the faith 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.720 of a poet that believes he was born to do it, 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:28.360 like an acorn caught up in a storm, flung from 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.600 the branch where it was born. You can only hold 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:36.240 me back for so long. My time gonna come. Despite 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:43.560 the difficulties and disappointments. My determination remains undaunted. Though the 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:49.320 waters of my tomorrows are deep and uncharted, the buoyance 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.359 of my character will float on, wavering towards him like 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:59.360 a song written yet unrecorded. My time gonna come. Though 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:03.040 you wrap me and change and sprayed me with chemical 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:06.560 flames and did all of the things you did to 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:12.080 add to my pain, my circumstances will change. I believe 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.360 it's with the depths of my being that as long 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:21.080 as this world continues to spend, it cannot end until 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:26.679 it's been enjoyed by end. Remember this day because things 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:31.280 won't always beat its way. My time gonna come, My 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:37.800 time gonna come against all conceivable odds. My time gonna come. 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.359 If five years later I was released. Wow, did you 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:45.600 think about that poem when you find out you're being released? 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.199 I definitely did, And that's why it's the tide of 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:54.520 my book. My time will come. In the traditional sense, 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.920 we often find ourselves starting a process of forgiving with others, 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:00.640 but Ian how to approach forgiven us from the thin 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.760