WEBVTT - Amazon, Apple Report, Trump Pleads Not Guilty 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.720 This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.680 global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.640 Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:21.560 We brought you a lot of earnings. The big one 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.000 we want to focus on, though, of course, is Amazon's 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:28.520 second quarter online stores net sales coming in above estimates. 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.319 North American net sales for the second quarter come in 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.080 above estimates, Physical store net sales come in above estimates, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.360 second quarter subscription service net sales come in in slightly 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.760 above estimates, and operating income, that ever important one, coming 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.480 in way above estimates. The estimates were for four point 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.360 seven to two billion, and we're seeing results of seven 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.320 point six to eight billion. Stock up more than six 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.680 percent in the postmarket. Right now, I want to bring 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.920 in senior US retail analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence, Punamguoyle, who 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.840 has had exactly seven minutes to go through this tire report. Poonum, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:03.080 give us the big takeaways you have. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.000 Yeah, sure, so, just looking at the press release really quickly, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.480 it looks good on all fronts. I really can't find 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.399 anything bad to say today, I think what caught us 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.479 by surprise and in a good way is really AWS. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.080 You know, we were thinking that AWS sales would have 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.160 slowed given just commentary we had heard from Microsoft, but 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:27.000 those came in above expectations and they said the business stabilized. Also, 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.400 guidance was ahead of consensus. So overall, really across the board, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.760 we're seeing pretty good momentum at Amazon. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.600 Well, talk to me about Amazon's retail business as well, 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.080 because we know the analysts have been looking for signs 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.800 that those margins are improving after their cost cutting measures. 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.720 I know that you're just looking through all of this, poonam, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.240 but what do we know so far about that? 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.880 Yeah, I think the cost cutting is definitely helping the 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:53.960 keep in mind that they continue to invest in that 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.360 fast and free shipping and really speeding up those timelines. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.560 So I think the margin story, more than on the 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.120 retail side, is just ab after turning to growth and 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.600 really driving up that profitability to allow for other areas 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.000 of investment is key here. But we will continue to 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.800 see them really, you know, remove costs where they're unnecessary 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.720 or just not driving the ROI that we'd like to 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:16.639 see from Amazon. 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.520 I was kind of joking Punham a few minutes ago 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.480 when I talked about, you know, having to take a 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.400 drink when you saw a mention of AI, just because 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.320 it's totally what investors want to see. And again, I 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.800 know you're a retail analyst, senior retail analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.200 but we can't talk about Amazon without talking about AWS. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.320 And a big portion of Andanty Jasse's statement is dedicated 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.560 to what AWS has been doing when it comes to 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:44.080 generative AI in the cloud. What do investors need to 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:44.639 know about that? 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.880 Yeah, I think AI is going to be in every 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.680 single conversation we hear from here on for many years 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.440 to come, whether it's retail or tech companies. And Amazon 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.360 will continue to invest in AI and will continue to 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.239 use it as a competitive edge, whether it's for AWS 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.920 or even for its online business. Both on the cost 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.240 side avolves on the marketing and sales side, where it 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.800 can really tailor assortments to better meat customers demand and 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.680 really drive up that conversion. So we don't see that 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.240 conversation going away at all. It is going to take 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.760 center stage. How we're going to determine the actual ROI 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.880 from each of those initiatives within AI. It's probably going 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:24.400 to be a little harder to really tell. 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.240 One of the other things that I'm fascinated in because 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.800 I'm such a participant in it is the Prime Day event. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.120 Looks like in the Internet's report, more than three hundred 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.600 and seventy five million items purchased customers, saving more than 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.200 two point five billion dollars poonam. I know that the 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.240 market typically sloughs off Prime Day, but what does the 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.720 earning statement tell you about both Prime Day and the 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.880 future of Amazon as kind of a retailer that consumers 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:50.840 are going to go to for these purchases. 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.960 Yeah, I think Prime Day is an important event for Amazon. 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.080 You know, they hold it twice a year, and they 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.800 already spoke about it once right after the event where 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.720 they that the first Prime Day was actually the biggest 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.560 online sales day in their history, which means it's their 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:09.000 past Cyber Monday last year as well. So that's encouraging, 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.520 and it tells us that the consumer is seeking value 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.720 and they go to Amazon to find that value. We're 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.280 in a period of a time where the consumer is 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.880 really stretched down their dollars. Discretionary spending has been mixed 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.560 and slowing as we move into the back half of 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.880 the year for the all important holiday season. Amazon needs 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.599 to continue to stay on top of consumer's mind, show 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.480 their value promise, and all still show that they can 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.320 have a pretty broad assortment at a good price and 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.200 can get it to you fast for no cost. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.279 If you're a prime number, Is Amazon where you find value? 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:40.479 Though? 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.840 Has it positioned itself as a value leader, especially in 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.200 relation to and in comparison to Walmart and what Walmart's 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:49.760 trying to do with its own prime competition. 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.479 Absolutely, I think you know, when you think of value, 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.440 Amazon definitely provides value, especially when you look across Amazon's 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.440 owned brands, right, I think that's where they can press 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:03.600 the pedal a little further. Amazon basic items are provided 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.080 at a pretty good value to consumers. And then more 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.800 than value, it's about convenience, right. It's the fact that 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.080 you go to Amazon and you type in that you 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.599 want the cell phone charger, and there you go. You 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.080 have a laundry list of cell phone chargers that you 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.960 could choose from, some branded, some non branded, and you 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.000 can get them same day. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:27.320 Okay, you're making me, you're reminding me about advertising advertising revenue. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.440 What's Amazon doing. What are we seeing with the most 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.120 recent quarter when it comes to ad revenue? 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.799 Great, it was up twenty two percent in the quarter 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.479 and continues to be a driving force or Amazon. They're 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.560 doing really well on the advertising front. We continue to 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:45.000 expect to see double digit gains there. And remember advertising 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.400 that one business that probably could boast the highest profit margins, 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.800 even better than AWS. So as Amazon scales that business, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.599 it's only going to continue to help drive its bottom line. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.000 They also mentioned in the report there are premieres of 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.040 additional Amazon original films and series, of course, I mean 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.680 when a marvelous Missus mazol on some other great performers 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.160 for them. Is there anything of note to you when 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.040 it comes to the Prime video story in this earning 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:16.760 statement here? 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.320 Yes, So you know, we just ran some data earlier 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.360 this month or last month, I should say, in July. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.960 The summer I Turned Pretty was released on July thirteen, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.360 and that's season two, and we saw a huge uptick 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.040 in downloads on Prime Video. So content is king for 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.400 Prime Video. The more better the content that rolls out 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.359 on Amazon, we think they'll definitely bring up interest in 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.240 both getting new members onto Prime as well as just 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.080 keeping members that are on it, still interested and really 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.799 using the platform more and more in their daily lives. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.440 Puna, Before we let you go talk to us about 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:55.680 how to read into the strength of the consumer. You 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.440 said that the consumers stretched right now, they're looking for value. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.840 Where else can we look in Amazon report to give 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.560 us an idea for just how the American consumer, how 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:04.840 the American economy is doing. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.800 Yeah, I think the consumer is stretched, but the consumer 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:11.840 is making trade off. So you're going to see an 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.960 area of retail where some consumers will choose Amazon and 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.960 some will choose to move away from some of the 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.240 other retailers where they don't really have value, nor are 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.600 they differentiated, and nor can they provide convenience. So we're 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.520 going to see a mixed bag of earnings. We just 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.360 had Revolve report last night, and you know, they were 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.320 talking about the consumer being weaker, especially on the luxury end, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.960 which is interesting to hear. And then we've heard dollar 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.760 stores and others talk about how the value consumer is stretched. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.320 So it's really about the consumer making trade offs and 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.760 going to the retailer that has exactly what they want 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.520 to meet their needs. And Amazon fits that bucket is 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:46.960 what they. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.520 Dispersed Bloomberg Intelligence Senior US retail analyst Punamguayl. 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.960 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.360 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.440 Bloomberg dot Com Radio app and the Bloomberg Business App, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.440 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:09.040 Another piece of history being made today as former President 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.720 Trump is entering the courtroom. He's inside the courtroom for 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.560 his arraignment on those January sixth charges. This is his 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.800 third indictment as former president, here again appearing in a 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.680 federal courtroom in Washington to be arraigned on those charges 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.000 that he conspired to remain in office despite the loss 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.200 of the twenty twenty election. So we are going to 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.480 dig into this story right now. We've got Bloomberg Law 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.840 host and legal analyst June Grasso, and we've also got 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.960 Bloomberg US Legal reporter David Veraicus. I hope I said 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.959 that correctly. Day, Thank you so much. Okay, on the 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.280 latest with the Trump indictment and that arrangement today, David, 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.600 I want to start with you because we've gotten used 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.440 to covering this type of event here when it comes 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.960 to the former President. What is significant about today? 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:56.920 What is different for you? 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:57.800 What are you watching? 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.680 Well, this is what's known as an initial appearance and 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:06.000 an arraignment, where Trump will be formally notified of the 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.640 charges and he's expected to enter a not guilty plea. 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:14.160 The judge will also set bail terms, and it's expected 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.880 that he would be released until his trial. We don't 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.440 have a trial date yet. It's possible the judge would 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.360 set a trial date, but probably not. This is a 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.320 magistrate judge, and it's the district judge who would probably 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.640 set the trial date and a schedule for pre trial 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:32.920 hearings and motions. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.480 David, I want to stick with you for one more 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:38.280 and then we'll bring in in June. But you know, 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.920 with Maddy was alluding to this with President Trump in 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.400 appearing before court, this is the third indictment, and I 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.360 think there's a risk that people sort of think to themselves, Okay, 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.640 well this is now normal. This is not normal. This 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.640 is not normal in US history. Right now we're seeing 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.800 a foecount indictment that accuses President Trump of conspiring to 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.800 defraud the US, interfering with the counting votes in twenty twenty, 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.880 obstructing conspiring to obstruct Congress's certification of the election results, 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.640 and conspiring against the right to vote. I mean, these 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.600 are some of these things that were in an indictment. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.520 Go back to the wake of the Civil Rights Act, 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:16.000 was voting. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.880 This is an extraordinary moment in our nation's history. The 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:25.680 Justice Department has accused him essentially of an assault on democracy, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:30.520 and you know, Trump and his supporters say that he 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.640 had a free speech right to say what he said 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.640 at the time, and that the prosecutors will not be 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.840 able to show that he had criminal intent here. It's 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:45.480 going to be a tremendous legal battle, and it's also 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.000 going to be extraordinary over the next few months because 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.400 of the need to set proper schedules between the three trials, 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.720 and there's also the possibility of a fourth indictment. This 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:02.680 is Georgia, right in Georgia and Atlanta, so we've never 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.800 seen anything like this in our history. And all of 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.679 this is bookending Trump's third run for the White House. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:10.679 I just quickly want to stick with you on the 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.000 Justice Department because you mentioned that I'm curious about how 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.240 much feedback we're going to see the Justice Department getting 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.480 in terms of the criticism that it's been this is political, 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.280 that this is a political move. How much do you 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.720 anticipate that commentary coming to the Justice Department. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.120 I expect there's going to be a sustained political attack 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:38.200 from the Republican Party, from Trump allies, from conservative media, 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:43.280 and I also expect it's likely that the Justice Department 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:48.880 won't respond except in court and so well. Trump can 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:54.000 make a great deal of comments on social media and live, 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.120 the Justice Department is greatly constrained in what they can say. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.880 I want to bring in June Grosso. She is the 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.040 Bloomberg Law host and legal analyst here at Bloomberg June. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:06.800 Every time in the last forty eight hours that we've 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.199 gone by your desk, you've been reading this indictment. I 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.000 don't know how many times you've redered it. This really 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.040 three times? Okay, so it's about forty five pages. Give 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.240 us your takeaways as you've spent so much time in it, 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.000 and really the gravity of it. 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.720 Well, it's hard to overestimate or the gravity of this. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.480 And this is an attack on an alleged attack on 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:33.520 American democracy, And what strikes me is the relentlessness with 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.800 which former President Trump is alleged to have acted in 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.520 this matter. He was told over and over again, and 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.880 it's really set out carefully in this indictment. So they 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.920 talk about how many times he was told and how 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.280 many people he was told that the elections were fair, 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.120 and they list, and that's why I think it's important 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.760 for people to read this. They list, for example, the 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.760 defendant's vice president, the senior leaders of the Justice Department, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:03.200 Director of National and Intelligence, Department of Homeland Securities, Cybersecurity 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.640 and Infrastructure Security Agency, senior White House attorney, senior staffers 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:11.479 on the defendants re election campaign, state legislators and officials, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.880 state and federal courts. All those people, in different ways 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.920 told President drump that the election, there was no fraud 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.040 in the election. And still he went forward and repeated 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.920 the same things that they had told him were false. 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.000 For example, he said more than ten thousand voters in 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.400 Georgia were actually dead. He said that there were two 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.800 hundred five thousand more votes than voters in Pennsylvania. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.080 On and on, all things demonstrably untrue. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.760 Yes, and suitcases of fake votes being counted. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.000 In Georgia, conspiracy theories. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:45.920 It's if you look at this, if you read it 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.720 you'll see how the Special Council has laid out each 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.080 and every detail, though I'm sure he is not given 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.439 all the details out in this and it's overwhelming. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:58.679 I would also point out there's going to be a 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:03.440 legal question of Trump really believe these claims that there 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.760 was fraud in the election, and how do you prove 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.560 that though, Well, they have a lot of people around 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.240 Trump who said that he told me this, or he 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.959 told me that. They can use direct statements from his aids. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:21.360 They can also use circumstantial evidence, and it may be 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:26.440 that he was repeatedly told that your fraud claims are 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:28.920 not true, and he believed it anyway, And so the 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.160 burden is on the Justice Department and the prosecutors to 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:33.920 prove what was in his mind. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.000 Well, and June, I know you know this so well. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.040 But on the second page, the indictment acknowledges that former 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.600 President Trump had that First Amendment right to lie. Talk 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.640 to me about the distinction that's made in the indictment 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.160 about the difference between that right and what was done. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.840 So it's surprising to me that Donald Trump's luers are 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.760 still advancing a First Amendment defense because obviously the Special 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.680 Council has written this in a way to try to 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:06.240 deflect any First Amendment claims. So there's a difference. First 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.120 Amendment is speech. What they're alleging here is conduct, and 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.400 that's there's a big difference in speech and conduct because 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.000 with a conspiracy, with any conspiracy, they are going to 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.080 be usually words spoken, and that doesn't make it a 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.080 First Amendment claim. It's the conduct that is at issue here. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.720 So the way he's written this is to say, yes, 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.200 you can say this, Yes you can even say that 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.680 the election was false, but that doesn't make it a 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.640 First Amendment claim. So it's kind of surprising that that 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.480 seems to be the main thread of the defense here. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.080 What do we know about the co conspirators mentioned in 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.040 the indictment to June, I know there's a lot of 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.320 speculation about that, but having read it so many times, 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:49.120 why can you tell us? 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.200 Well, I think we have identified at least five out 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.880 of the six, and it could be that we've identified 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.840 the sixth one, but I don't want to say anything. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:58.160 At this point. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.800 But so it's Rudy Giuliani is very obviously consputer number one. 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.120 John Eastman's attorney has said that he is conspirator number two. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.360 You have Sidney Powell, the lawyer who appeared on so 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.240 many with so many wild theories, and Jeffrey Clark, who 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.000 was a former assistant Attorney General, and then Kenneth Chessper 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.120 who is an appellate attorney. Those are the unnamed co conspirators. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.480 And the question is is the special counsel going to 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.600 name them at some point charge them, because if he 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.360 names them, he's going to in an indictment he has 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:27.080 to charge them. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:28.840 So that's where I want to bring David in because 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.960 there's a chance David that you know, if you're Rudy 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.320 Giuliani right now, maybe you're being advised to cooperate with 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.920 Special Counsel Jack Smith, and yeah, talk to us about 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:39.120 you know that process there. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.120 It's it's hard to tell for sure from the indictment 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.760 whether any of the co conspirators are cooperating, although there 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:52.640 is that possibility. There's one tactical reason that Jack Smith 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.160 may have only charged Donald Trump, which is if you 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.880 bring in more defendants, then that could prolong the trial 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.120 and the proceedings. And it seems, as June suggested, that 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.520 they want to make this as streamlined as possible to 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.280 get in the trial before the. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.400 Election is I can tell you what I just want 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.760 to say one thing. I am sure that co conspiritor 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.080 number two, who is Johnny Smith, the attorney, is not 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.159 cooperating because his attorney is said that he's going to 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.600 send a brief to the Special Council next week setting 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.080 forth all the reasons why he should not be charged. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:28.520 That he was acting as the council. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.040 We're getting a headline right now that the President Trump 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.000 expectedly has pleaded not guilty to twenty twenty election charges. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:36.320 So no big surprise there. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.879 But he also said that just to finish at the 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.679 thought that if he is charged, he will not cooperate, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.560 he will not take a plea. So at least he's 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:46.240 out of the game. 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.200 So, David, I guess it raises the question of one 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.000 that wasn't able to answer when a colleague asked me 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.280 earlier today when I was preparing for this interview with 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.879 both of you and preparing for him to be at court. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.919 Is President Trump going to go to prison? I couldn't 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:01.760 answer the question. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.720 That well, first of all, that suggests that he'll be convicted. 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:10.120 He has to be convicted, and you know it's possible 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.879 that he could. He faces up to twenty years on 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.040 the most serious charge. That's just on one charge, right, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.640 But the way the federal sentencing works is usually white 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:25.960 collar defendants would serve considerably less time. So I can't 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.879 answer the question of whether he's going to prison for sure, 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.120 but I could say that he can run for president 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.119 under indictment. He can run for president if he's convicted, 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.840 and even if he goes to prison, he could run 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.440 for president. There's also the possibility that if he's elected, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.000 he could pardon himself. This is something that analysts legal 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.560 nis have been talking about and it's kind of extraordinary 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:55.080 and unprecedented. But we don't know quite how this will 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.600 play out, but it seems to be a distinct possibility. 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.399 I've talked to lawyers and they seem to be on 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.800 whether or not he would be sent to prison. Some 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.840 lawyers I've spoken to said, well, he could be sent 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.560 to a country club prison like they have out west, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.639 and we've heard about those prisons right where, or he 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.440 could be placed under some kind of house arrest arrangement 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.280 at Mara Lago. Others have said that it might be 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.200 that the president, who is in office at the time 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.480 might do something like think that, okay, he's had enough 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:30.159 right now he's been exposed, and might themselves, you know, 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.800 grant him clemency of some kind. So I don't know 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.600 if the judge would The judge here is a very 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.240 tough sentencing judge, so I'm not sure she wouldn't send 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.080 him to prison well convicted, Well, David. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.000 What about Georgia the potential fourth indictment, Correct me if 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.800 I'm wrong, But that's one that he couldn't parton himself from. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:52.119 Right, The original indictment by the Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:57.440 and any possible indictment by Fannie Willis in Atlanta, She's 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.320 the Fulton County DA are not subject to pardons or 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:09.000 clemencies under the federal system. So it seems that those 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.800 are charges that present particular peril for Trump. But it 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:19.200 also seems that it's almost certain that the Special Counsel 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:20.439 would like to go first. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.240 Well, it's interesting in June, I know you know this. 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.520 So while the Special Council is going to focus on 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.200 the idea that mister Trump was not delusional at the time, 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.200 is there any chance of that changing because it would 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.400 save him from prison time. 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:38.000 I don't think so. I think that, you know, in 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:39.960 order to prove his case, he's going to have to 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.000 prove that Donald Trump had intent, as David was saying, 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.000 and you know that's true of any crime, that you 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.000 have to prove intent. And I think that there's no 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.919 way that the Special Council would would deviate from that 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.119 or in any way say that Donald Trump was not 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:59.040 of sound mind in his defense. May try that, but no, no, seriously, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:00.480 I just don't think that that. I mean, some of 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.400 the defenses that they've put out are what you said, 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:08.199 first Amendment, advice of counsel. You know, there are different 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.200 ways that they'll approach it. They also have sort of 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.560 as Donald Trump has said over and over and over 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.320 again from years and years, that it's a witch hunt 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.720 and that he's being prosecuted, that there's a you know, 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.320 favoritism in the prosecution. So that may be another one, 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.440