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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is a yeah,

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Speaker 1: this Doug Gottlieb show. You're like, yeah, I know that.

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Speaker 1: I know that. It's an old radio technique. It's called

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Speaker 1: the reset. So who are you? Where are you? I'm

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Speaker 1: in Green Bay? What are you doing? I'm not really sure,

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Speaker 1: but it's great to be with you. And one of

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Speaker 1: the beautiful things about having a chance to do a

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Speaker 1: pod periodically, which you can see on WFRV Plus as

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Speaker 1: well as obviously listen to and download on wherever you

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Speaker 1: download podcasts, is the fact that you get a chance

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Speaker 1: to kind of catch your breath and really kind of

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Speaker 1: formulate thought. So here we are, and the data of

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Speaker 1: this recording is February thirteenth, twenty twenty six. That data

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Speaker 1: is significant for a lot of reasons. We'll get to.

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Speaker 1: Why offer me personally a second? But it is five

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Speaker 1: days after the Super Bowl, so right, five days after

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, and it's given me a chance to

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Speaker 1: ingest so much of the nonsense of the halftime show.

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Speaker 1: And also I haven't heard the take that I have

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Speaker 1: on the actual game. What, Yeah, there was an actual

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Speaker 1: football game. It wasn't a it wasn't a terribly well

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Speaker 1: played offensive football game, but actually decided who won the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Yeah, that did happen. And instead of saying

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Speaker 1: that game has sucked or they even wins championships, which

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Speaker 1: I did actually tweet them, that's me. I'm responsible for it.

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Speaker 1: I have a different sort of take. So let's start

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Speaker 1: with the halftime show and then we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: actual game. So somehow the halftime show has become politics

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Speaker 1: at its breaking point. I don't know when we got

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Speaker 1: actually do know when we got to this point. We'll

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Speaker 1: get to that, but I don't know when we got

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Speaker 1: to the point that the selection of who is performing

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Speaker 1: at halftime became a huge point for political discourse. But

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Speaker 1: here we are, so instead of getting to what was

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Speaker 1: the moment that we tipped where sports became like political news.

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Speaker 1: Guy in the right, guy in the left, everybody picked

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Speaker 1: their side, nobody finds common ground. Somehow sports has become

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Speaker 1: that as well. And maybe maybe it's the proliferation of

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Speaker 1: sports debate on television right started with because it wasn't

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Speaker 1: first Take. It was actually first and ten as a

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Speaker 1: segment in the Old Cold Pizza Show on ESPN two.

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Speaker 1: And of course you have pardon the eruption, which technically

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Speaker 1: you got two old guys that have been great newspaper

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Speaker 1: writers arguing for days, regardless of which the right would

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Speaker 1: lead you to believe. The right politically would lead you

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Speaker 1: to believe this is woke behavior and that's what this represents.

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Speaker 1: The left would say this is a win because you

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Speaker 1: have the right all bothered and it shows how united

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Speaker 1: the left is. I don't even care. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's about any of that. Okay, you are first, you're

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Speaker 1: taking the bait from all of these people that want

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Speaker 1: to make everything political. It's no different than people want

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Speaker 1: to make everything racial. Everything is not racial, Everything is

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Speaker 1: not political. But you know what everything is in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: It is financial and it was brilliant and you're like, what,

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Speaker 1: so what you have in me is you have the

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Speaker 1: rare sheet code. I don't know everything, but I sat

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Speaker 1: in meetings at three different networks and they told you

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Speaker 1: why everything happens, and the number one thing that was

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Speaker 1: told to us over and over again, even going back.

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Speaker 1: I was ten years at ESPN, nine years in Bristol, Connecticut,

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Speaker 1: and they would constantly say the number one market. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to capitalize on is Latino

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Speaker 1: demographic and just are Spanish speaking, English speaking foreign born

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Speaker 1: born in the United States, Spanish as your first language,

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Speaker 1: Spanish your second language, doesn't actually matter. They are. It's

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Speaker 1: a vibrant market, vibrant market. It's a growing market, one

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Speaker 1: of the few growing markets in professional sports. And oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the way, gigantic NFL market. Additionally, and this is

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Speaker 1: a big thing if you look historically, it hasn't always

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Speaker 1: taken place. The LA super Bowl halftime show wasn't really that,

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Speaker 1: but many of the shows have been. The demo for

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Speaker 1: halftime entertainment is the female demo?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 1: Well? Again, one, there are a lot of female NFL fans,

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Speaker 1: but there are a lot of female fans that don't

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Speaker 1: watch NFL all year, but they go to a super

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Speaker 1: Bowl party, they watch a little bit of the NFL.

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Speaker 1: So if you're watching this show on the Vio Harvey

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Speaker 1: Plus or anyone in the next Star network, or you're

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Speaker 1: listening to us on our podcast, you might sit here

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Speaker 1: and go like, well, dig I'm already a sports fan.

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Speaker 1: I was going to watch the super Bowl and that's

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Speaker 1: where I go, eh ha. Here's the thing. Most of us,

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Speaker 1: as guys, we can't and especially the people that are

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Speaker 1: arguing this on TV and on radio can't understand there

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Speaker 1: are actually people out there who don't watch the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: You're like, what, yeah, like do the math. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: about one hundred and twenty five to one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty million people watch the super Bowl, right, that's the

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Speaker 1: that's what we learn from ratings, Okay, and you probably

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Speaker 1: throw in twenty five thirty more maybe that we can't

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Speaker 1: calculate because you know, not that I would do it,

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Speaker 1: but some people do bootleg their stuff, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just does happen, And it's still a hard calculation

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Speaker 1: for how many people are watching in bars and restaurants,

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Speaker 1: group homes. I'm kidding, but when we're watching out in public.

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Speaker 1: So even if it's one hundred and seventy five million

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Speaker 1: people watch, how many people in the United States three

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million people? Yeah, so I just blew

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Speaker 1: your mind. More people don't watch the super Bowl in

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Speaker 1: the United States than watch Super Bowl. I don't know

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Speaker 1: any of them. Actually I do, my daughter Grace. It's

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Speaker 1: actually a good point. My daughter Grace had a I

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Speaker 1: went to my daughter Harper's Super Bowl party in Stillwater, Oklahoma, Regret.

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Speaker 1: My son came in. We bought a bunch of food,

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Speaker 1: we made some I made crab dip again. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why. I saw it on the internet and I

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Speaker 1: like everybody, I'm like, I can make this and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't bad anyway. My daughter, Grace, she's nineteen years old,

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Speaker 1: talented musician. She didn't want to watch the halftime show.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I get studying to do. And it is

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Speaker 1: one of those things where if you want to rob

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Speaker 1: a bank, grant's on a Sunday, but Super Sunday a

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Speaker 1: good day to do it, cause one hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: five per people are watching the Super Bowl. The point

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Speaker 1: is more people don't watch the super Bowl than watch

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Speaker 1: the super Bowl. It feels really because I don't know

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Speaker 1: any of these people. Well, I know Grace. And then

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Speaker 1: when I first moved to Connecticut at ESPN in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and three, my neighbors invited us to Thanksgiving dinner

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Speaker 1: and those early Thanksgiving dinner and at some point in time,

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Speaker 1: I go, hmmm, you guys gonna throw on the game,

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Speaker 1: and they said what game. I was like, it's Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: Football TV, Cowboys, Lions. This is not hard, right, So

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Speaker 1: there are people out there that don't watch Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: Those people are more likely to watch the Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: if the halftime show is something that appeals to them.

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Speaker 1: That's why Madonna was the halftime guest, like thirty years

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Speaker 1: after Madonna's prime, because older women, people who don't watch

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Speaker 1: the NFL, they're like, oh Madonna, yeah, I know that,

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Speaker 1: I'll watch that. It really is that simple. There's other

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Speaker 1: parts to it, right. I think this was presented by Apple,

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Speaker 1: so it has to be somebody associated with Apple. Previously

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Speaker 1: was Pepsi and Pepsi had tonight. It really does go

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Speaker 1: through those lines. If you're if you represent Coke on

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Speaker 1: your tour, you're not going to perform at the super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: But the point is that Bad Bunny brings in a

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Speaker 1: demo extremely young that don't watch NFL. Okay, Latin Spanish

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Speaker 1: speaking that don't watch the NFL. Women dig him right,

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Speaker 1: English speaking, Spanish speaking, whatever, And it's it's a demo

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Speaker 1: of people that, yes, some watch the NFL, but many

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Speaker 1: do not. And that's how you get them to watch

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Speaker 1: the first half of the game because they're sitting there

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Speaker 1: telling their husband, their wife there, whomever, their buddy or

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Speaker 1: their girlfriend or their boyfriend. When's the super Bowl coming on?

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Speaker 1: Because this is when's the halftime show coming on? Because

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Speaker 1: this is super boring and that is why they watch.

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Speaker 1: It's really that simple, Like you're sitting there, you're massively

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Speaker 1: overthinking this thing. And it worked. It absolutely worked, because

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Speaker 1: ask yourself this, did you watch the second half? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Because the first half was bad. I'm like, well, maybe

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Speaker 1: in the second half they're going to open up a

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Speaker 1: can and all of a sudden, New England's can remember

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Speaker 1: how to throw a FOURD pass? Right? That was your bobby,

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Speaker 1: your thought you were gonna watch regardless. Hey, we do

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Speaker 1: this in radio. Okay, if you're a when you do

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Speaker 1: a radio show that's two three hours, like three hour shows.

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Speaker 1: Here's a little tip. So Colin Cowherd's first segment he

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Speaker 1: repeats in his third hour and you're like, wait what, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know why, because if you're listening in the first

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Speaker 1: hour and you're listening to the third hour, you're what's done.

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Speaker 1: As a P one listener, You're gonna listen. If he

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Speaker 1: talks on while he's sitting on the can, you don't care.

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Speaker 1: But most people only listen for a segment and then

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Speaker 1: they parachute back in and you have to constantly reset

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Speaker 1: who you are what you are. We did the start

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Speaker 1: of the podcast, So you're a P one viewer if

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Speaker 1: you will, You're going to watch the super Bowl no

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Speaker 1: matter who's playing it. Why, Because that's what we do.

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Speaker 1: We're a guy or guys or women, and we grew

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Speaker 1: up in America and we're like, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: watched super Bowl? Why? The super Bowl was crummy my

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Speaker 1: entire childhood, right, Think about if you're a fan of

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Speaker 1: the Broncos, remember John Elway's first two Super Bowls? Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was a Charger fan with the nature and means

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Speaker 1: and stand the man Humphrey. That sucker was over as

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Speaker 1: soon as the coin toss was done. But I still

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Speaker 1: watched because that's what we do, right. It's the terrible

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Speaker 1: cliche that adults always use now my adults, so I

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Speaker 1: try not to use it, which is why do we

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Speaker 1: always do it? That's because we've always been done that way?

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Speaker 1: But we watched the Super Bowl. You're already going to watch.

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Speaker 1: The halftime show is for people who probably wouldn't watch,

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Speaker 1: to get more of them to watch, because the more

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Speaker 1: of them watch, the more people overall, it bumps up

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Speaker 1: the rating of the game and it works, and it worked.

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Speaker 1: It was brilliant, it was genius. It's just like, well

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Speaker 1: everything in the NFL. They're successful for a reason, right.

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Speaker 1: They set specific game times. They got Thursday, we got Sunday,

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Speaker 1: and then late and we got Monday and then sometimes,

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Speaker 1: letting the hear, we'll get to Saturday. Why are the

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Speaker 1: Cowboys always on Thanksgiving? Because everybody watches the Cowboys. You

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Speaker 1: either hate watch them or you like watch them, but

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Speaker 1: you watch them. There are people at all of the

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Speaker 1: major networks and the minor networks for a living. They're

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Speaker 1: in what's called programming, and all they do, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know how they do it is calculate. It's like,

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Speaker 1: why is the game time at six twenty four kickoff?

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Speaker 1: Because they calculate exactly when at the quarter hours you're

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Speaker 1: going to be watching the most nationally so they can

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Speaker 1: get the bigger ratings. It's all about the money, right.

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Speaker 1: It's professional sports. The best run professional sport in America

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Speaker 1: is the NFL. And they melt it because you're talking

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Speaker 1: about it. There's the value to social media equity, whether

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Speaker 1: you like it or you don't like it. And by

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Speaker 1: talking about it and by talking about it leading up

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Speaker 1: to it, more people are going to watch it. And

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Speaker 1: the perfect example is the president who put on Trump's

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Speaker 1: social a tweet or is it a tweet if it's

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Speaker 1: on Trump's social or is it a social on Trump's

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very confusing. They don't actually have

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Speaker 1: a word for whatever. He a post post. Okay, But

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Speaker 1: the brilliant thing about it is that even if he

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Speaker 1: hated it, watched it. He watched it. It's the old

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Speaker 1: no publicity is bad, publicity, that's bad, buddy. So the

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Speaker 1: point is that it wasn't racial, it wasn't political. And

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you, like my son loved it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It was like honestly, it was like

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Speaker 1: going to a Broadway show. You're like, is this good?

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Speaker 1: Is this what's he's saying? I don't know. I did.

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Speaker 1: I felt eighty years old. I can't understand a word

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Speaker 1: he's saying. But I mean I liked it. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't know what he was saying or whatever. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: all mostly in Spanish or in span It was different. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it was different, but let's get over ourselves. It's a

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Speaker 1: halftime show. The idea was to get people to watch.

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Speaker 1: It worked. A lot of people liked it, and the

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Speaker 1: people who didn't still watched it and talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was harmed in it, and the NFL once again

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Speaker 1: wins because the ratings keep going up and up and up,

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Speaker 1: and they keep charging more and more and we keep

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Speaker 1: paying regardless of the fact that here's the other kicker.

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Speaker 1: The game actually sucked, right, the game actually sucked. My

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Speaker 1: old radio producer Jason Stewart out in Laws Angeles, he

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Speaker 1: used to he called it the oh, what's the what's

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Speaker 1: the U two album? Uh? I thought it was Zuopa?

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Speaker 1: But like to me, Zuopa was was? What was Zuopa?

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Speaker 1: A really bad album? I can't remember he had? Wasn't

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Speaker 1: Octun Baby? That was a good one. And the point was,

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Speaker 1: because it was you two, you were always going to

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Speaker 1: buy the album. Because the NFL, you're always gonna watch,

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Speaker 1: even though the product hasn't been particularly good, especially recently.

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Speaker 1: And the Super Bowl is the perfect example. And the

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Speaker 1: genius to it is no one people have said, hey,

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Speaker 1: the game sucked, but you still watched because you were like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it'll turn, well, maybe it'll turn And then the

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Speaker 1: Patriots are down big, and you're like, well, the Patriots

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Speaker 1: did come back back. When it's long, it's Tom Brady.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch for if it's a Tom Brady come back.

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Speaker 1: It was not, which leads me to a take about

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Speaker 1: the NFL about the Super Bowl that I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody has had. This is just like the NCAAH tournament

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Speaker 1: when you have upsets. Right. So I'm a gigantic Sam

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Speaker 1: Donald fan. Sam Donald grew up in San Clementy, California.

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Speaker 1: I'm matriculated, you know. I lived in Milwaukee as a

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Speaker 1: baby till I was six and we moved out to

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Speaker 1: Orange County, California. San Clementy is the southernmost outpost of

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Speaker 1: Orange County. There's a lot of sc alums that are

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Speaker 1: just obnoxious, and they've had all these other quarterbacks. Sam

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Speaker 1: is the first one to break through. San Clementy. Though

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Speaker 1: it's changed some, is still the most kind of old

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Speaker 1: school Orange County beach town. There is the most normal people.

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Speaker 1: It's not like the OC you saw on TV. Sam's

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Speaker 1: been through a lot. Everybody I know says he's an

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Speaker 1: awesome dude, and because of that, I was cheering for him.

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Speaker 1: Plus I like Cooper Cup. I thought Cooper Cup's performance

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Speaker 1: with the La Rams when they won the Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago and he was basically the

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Speaker 1: only healthy wide receiver and caught every ball on the

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Speaker 1: game winning touchdown drive was heroic. And Cooper Cup kind

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Speaker 1: of being thrown out with the trash by the Rams

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Speaker 1: and basically by the league because he had aged out

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Speaker 1: and after his knee injury, didn't have the same burst

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Speaker 1: and finding a role with the Seahawks, Like I was

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Speaker 1: cheering for the Seahawks though I had no connection with them,

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Speaker 1: and their defense was elite all season long. And the Patriots, well,

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Speaker 1: with eight free agent signings, they done a great job

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Speaker 1: of turning that thing around. But this is what happens

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Speaker 1: when you have an upset. It doesn't mean that Drake

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Speaker 1: May won't eventually get back to the Super Bowl. It

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Speaker 1: just means it wasn't supposed to happen this year. And

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Speaker 1: that's what happens when you have a series of upsets. Right,

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Speaker 1: the Bill had the Bills beaten the Broncos, the Bills

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Speaker 1: probably end up beating the Patriots because Josh Allen is

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Speaker 1: the best quarterback in the NFL. Now they didn't because

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Speaker 1: of I thought ad blown call, a controversial call, and

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Speaker 1: then when the Broncos did move on, their quarterback was hurt,

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Speaker 1: so they start to go like, wait, is Drake May

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Speaker 1: really great? Now? The Chiefs had kind of aged out

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Speaker 1: this year. They got to hit refresh. The Chargers would

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Speaker 1: have been better than the Patriots, but they lost their

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Speaker 1: bookend tackles, and you can't protect Justin Herbert, you got

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Speaker 1: no chance. They just had too many injuries to really advance.

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Speaker 1: The Indianapolis Colts were an elite team until Danny Dimes

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Speaker 1: got hurt. Not to say that Danny Dimes is going

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Speaker 1: to be better than Drake May, but with Taylor in

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Speaker 1: the backfield, they were pretty dynamic. They were the best

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Speaker 1: team in the AFC for a good poorsch time until

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Speaker 1: injuries set in, and then of course the Bills did

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Speaker 1: their Bills thing in the playoffs. I did think they

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Speaker 1: lost on a bad call, But the point is that

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Speaker 1: all of these teams probably would have been Colts would

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Speaker 1: have been as good. Everybody else would have been better

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Speaker 1: at the quarterback position or better than where the Patriots were.

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Speaker 1: They weren't expecting to be a super Bowl team. They

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Speaker 1: probably didn't even think of themselves as the Super Bowl team.

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Speaker 1: But that's what happens when you have upsets at injuries.

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Speaker 1: It's no different than the NCAA tournament when you have

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Speaker 1: a one and done tournament, and this has happened in

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Speaker 1: college football. You go back last year, right, the Ohio

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Speaker 1: State Buckeyes were what the seventh seed and they go

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Speaker 1: all the way and win the championship. Now they were

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Speaker 1: really good seven see, But the point is that when

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Speaker 1: you have a major injury or a major upset, and

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Speaker 1: the AFC had two right injury to the Broncos quarterback

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Speaker 1: in the same game, which there is an upset over

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Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills. Now a sudden you knock out two

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Speaker 1: of the best team. Broncos are the best defense in

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Speaker 1: the AFC and probably the best play caller, albeit I'm

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Speaker 1: not in love at quarterback. But the Bills this was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be their year. So when you have upsets

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Speaker 1: in one and done's, it's no different than when Butler

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Speaker 1: got to their second national championship game and they played

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Speaker 1: Yukon they couldn't score in the first half. It's because

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Speaker 1: they really weren't that good. Right, you just have one upset.

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Speaker 1: That's why on so many levels the NBA playoffs. Though

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Speaker 1: the NBA regular season is a mess, the NBA playoffs

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Speaker 1: are pretty awesome. But it also usually gives you the

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Speaker 1: best team because the best team, if healthy over time,

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Speaker 1: will went out. That's what happened last year. Right, the

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma City thunder survived the Denver Nuggets in seven games,

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Speaker 1: but after that they were the best team in the

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Speaker 1: regular season, they're the best team in the postseason, and

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Speaker 1: they end up winning.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: They were also helped out by the fact that the

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Speaker 1: Pacers had an injury, the Celtics sen injury, etc. It's

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Speaker 1: no different than the reason that the Seahawks and the

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Speaker 1: Patriots were in the Super Bowl. Is no different than

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Speaker 1: the reason that the Indiana Pacers were in the NBA Finals. Right,

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Speaker 1: Jason Tatum doesn't get hurt, it might be a whole

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Speaker 1: different story. Injuries do play a part at a part

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Speaker 1: of upsets, and in one and done's when you get

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Speaker 1: an early upset, it obviously changes everything dramatically. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: not welcome in Doug Gottlieb show rolls on, and uh,

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Speaker 1: let's welcome in A dear friend of mine, a guy

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Speaker 1: who's the NBA insider for Fox Sports Radio and CBS

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Speaker 1: in LA. He's Mark the Funky Cold Medina uh and

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Speaker 1: and he joins us. Also, our guy Matt Holliday is

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Speaker 1: gonna going to join us as well at some point

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Speaker 1: in time. Here there, there's Matt. We'll talk some baseball,

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Speaker 1: We'll talk some basketball. Let's start with Mark as uh Mark,

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Speaker 1: We're on NBA All Star Weekend. Why is Yannis still

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Speaker 1: a member of the Milwaukee Bucks?

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Speaker 3: Very refleshinged Doug. I think it's two reasons.

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Speaker 4: One, the Milwaukee Bucks didn't feel like there was a

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Speaker 4: trade that justified dealing their franchise player. I think Giannis

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Speaker 4: Antetokoumpo also had some mixed feelings about whether he actually

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Speaker 4: wants to leave the Bucks. He never made a direct

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Speaker 4: trade demand, and I think you know, the Bucks have

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Speaker 4: always operated unless we hear direct correspondence from our star player,

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Speaker 4: We're gonna operate as if he's with us moving forward.

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Speaker 3: So what does that mean moving forward? I think it's

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Speaker 3: just buying time.

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Speaker 4: He's not expected to play the second half the season

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Speaker 4: because of his cap injury, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: with more teams potentially being the mix and having more

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Speaker 4: time to assess potential deals.

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Speaker 3: He'll be traded at some point in the off season.

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Speaker 1: Well, and plus there's the like, look, this is a

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Speaker 1: really valuable rookie, potential rookie class. You wait till after

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Speaker 1: the draft lottery and now you'd know where somebody picks

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Speaker 1: and it gives a different value to their trade assets.

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Speaker 1: Is that fair?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Completely fair?

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Speaker 4: And I think the other thing that we have to

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Speaker 4: keep in mind, as you know, Doug, when it gets

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Speaker 4: into the NBA Draft, there's more teams that are willing

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Speaker 4: to become buyers because the NBA Draft, can you move

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Speaker 4: the dynamic and the standings here. I think the other

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Speaker 4: thing is there's an expectation that even with outside of

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Speaker 4: the draft, there's going to be more teams with cap

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Speaker 4: space with I think more patients to make a deal.

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Speaker 4: The Lakers are probably the best example of that because

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Speaker 4: Lebron James is expected to either retire or go to

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Speaker 4: another team, so that clears a lot of cap space.

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Speaker 3: They're going to devote toward trying to resign Austin Reeves.

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Speaker 4: But they have more money to play with than they

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Speaker 4: would have, you know otherwise ahead of the trade deadline,

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Speaker 4: So we add those two things up, and I think

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Speaker 4: the Bucks concluded, you know what we can do better

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Speaker 4: when it comes to part and waste with our franchise player.

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Speaker 1: A percentage chance he ever plays for the Bucks again.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Doug, he cut right to the heart of the

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Speaker 4: batter here. I never say zero percent or one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent in today's world because anything can change. By that

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Speaker 4: cavey out of side, I would give it like five percent.

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Speaker 4: I think even though Janis has been very loyal to

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Speaker 4: the Bucks, he appreciates that, through both good deals and

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Speaker 4: bad deals, the Bucks have always been aggressive with trying

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Speaker 4: to put the best roster around him. He still, I think,

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Speaker 4: remained genuinely grateful that they drafted him at number fifteen

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Speaker 4: and developed him into a really good prospect. But I

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Speaker 4: think that he has reached the conclusion that they're just

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Speaker 4: spinning their wheels. They've gone through consecutive first round access

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Speaker 4: for the past three years, you know, I don't it

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Speaker 4: looks like after the All Star they're going to be

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Speaker 4: tanking towards his stand ins to try to protect their

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Speaker 4: draft picks. So yeah, I think it's I would be

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Speaker 4: very surprised if he's.

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Speaker 3: In a Bucks uniform next season.

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Speaker 1: Here's the marriage analogy, right, They're they're sleeping in separate rooms.

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Speaker 1: The kids are out of the house after in the summer,

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Speaker 1: they're going to you know, they're going to going away

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Speaker 1: to college, and that's kind of the time in which

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Speaker 1: they'd be like, eh, well mom and dadd are going

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Speaker 1: to live separately after after that. Speaking of tanking, like,

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Speaker 1: we've reached the point of ridiculousness. I want to bring

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Speaker 1: up the Jazz from this perspective. Ryan Smith's the owner

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Speaker 1: of the Jazz, right, so he donated to Utah Prep

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Speaker 1: where AJ debandsa win. He gave a bunch of money

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Speaker 1: to BYU where AJ debandsa win. Now his team potentially

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Speaker 1: has is aiming to tank for the number one overall

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Speaker 1: pick and may select aged. Like, we're getting to an

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00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: obscene level of manipulation in order to get to get

428
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: the number one pick to draft a guy. What can

429
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: the NBA do, well, one, they.

430
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: Can enforce their existing rules a lot better.

431
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 4: You know, prior to this episode where the NBA you know,

432
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: gave some fines to the Jazz and the Pacers, they

433
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 4: had the player participation policy. But I think the NBA

434
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 4: didn't get too involved because they want to steer clear of,

435
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 4: you know, really micromanaging. Okay, this is what rotations are

436
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 4: going to look like, because that's what an organization and

437
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 4: a coaching staff is in charge of doing.

438
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 3: But I think that philosophically, what they.

439
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: Can do is a lot more severe than these five

440
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars fines if they gave the Jazz or

441
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 4: one hundred thousands to the Indiana Pacers, because if you

442
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 4: really look at it, this is almost just a luxury tax.

443
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 4: You know that teams are spending if they're going over

444
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 4: the cap, right, so I think it has to be

445
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: a forfeiture of draft picks. I think the other thing,

446
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 4: big picture, if if teams are just going to be

447
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 4: this bad, you know, let's do that European soccer model

448
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 4: model with relegate in here. I think the ironic part, Doug,

449
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 4: is that they're.

450
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Not gonna They're not gonna come on, dude, they're not

451
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: going to relegate anybody. Like, it's not happening. There's too

452
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: much money involved in this thing. It's like the people

453
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: like they're going to shorten the season. Not shortened the season, okay,

454
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: because you have the forty one dates for inventory for

455
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: all these all these venues. They're not shortened the season stop,

456
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: they're not relegating anybody. How do they stop teams from

457
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: blatantly or even very smartly tanking. How do they stop it?

458
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I get your point here, but it can

459
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 4: do some behavior modification.

460
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: I'm with you on eighty two games is.

461
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: Not going away.

462
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 4: But the more practical part, I think draft picks and uh,

463
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 4: the finds.

464
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 3: Aren't going to do anything. So it has to be

465
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: lost of draft picks.

466
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 4: And almost like with second Apron, if you reach a threshold,

467
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 4: you're you don't have the ability to fully you know,

468
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 4: put a mid level together or do.

469
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: Sign in trades.

470
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 4: I think it has to go to those mechanisms because

471
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 4: of financial penalties. These things are worth too much. They

472
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: just they'll just view that as a luxury text.

473
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, last one and you kind of you

474
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: you talked about Lebron. I just I cannot see him

475
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: going out without a without a tour, right, I just can't.

476
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: That's just one He's earned it. I mean, he's the

477
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: all time lining score in NBA history. So like as

478
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: much as many people who are doing podcasts and radio

479
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: shows and TV shows will say, you know it's his ego.

480
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: Of course, he's got a big eagle, but he's incredibly accomplished.

481
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: So when you're all the time lending scorer, you're going

482
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: to do a victory tour, one last tour. Maybe, I

483
00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: don't know, But where with who? You know, like Amy

484
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: bringing him back. I don't think Cleveland wants him back.

485
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: I don't know the Lakers don't want him back. So

486
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: where where does it happen?

487
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: You know what?

488
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 3: A month ago, I didn't think it was gonna be anywhere.

489
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 4: I do think it could be Cleveland under the guys

490
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 4: that look, they got James Harden. They're in a win

491
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 4: now mode. But it has to be under specific parameters.

492
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 4: He's got to be the third player on the team.

493
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 4: From both a role player standpoint and a financial standpoint,

494
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 4: I would tell you this, Doug. I don't think the

495
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 4: Lakers would even be opposed to that. I just know

496
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 4: that they know that Lebron doesn't want to sign up

497
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: for that. Where from a salary role standpoint, he's behind

498
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 4: Luca and Austin Reeves.

499
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: It's one thing to tap into his ex's and o's.

500
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: He can't win. He'm like, listen, you can't win the NBA,

501
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: if you have more than one guy who can't guard

502
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: Lebron James, he's forty one years old. He can't guard

503
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: the chair that I'm sitting in. Luca doesn't guard and

504
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: probably can't guard either, And then you know, Austin Reed like,

505
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: that's the flaw to the Lakers is they get too

506
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: many dudes. They can't they can't guard, and if you

507
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: add Lebron, you can't have your top three players you know,

508
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: all be swinging gates defensively. It just doesn't work, you know,

509
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: And so that that doesn't.

510
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 4: Work, Yeah, and it has to the other thing is

511
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 4: with his salary, it's going to affect roster construction. So sure,

512
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 4: I don't think it's to the point that if he

513
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 4: wants to prolong his career he has to go on vetmentimum,

514
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 4: you know, mid level, but it has to be like

515
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 4: ten million range. It's certainly not in the twenties, let

516
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 4: alone fifty two that he's making this season. And I

517
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 4: think the challenging thing for Lebron is that he's seen

518
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: that he's not the same player as he was in

519
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: as brime me mentioned. Defensively, he doesn't have the same athleticism,

520
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 4: but you see, you know, like the flickers of life,

521
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: so to speak, like, for example, the most recent game

522
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 4: with having a triple double even with all his flaws,

523
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 4: that's very impressive, but what it creates is a gray

524
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: area where it's not clear you know what, your body's broke,

525
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: breaking down, you're just spinning a weirdless what's the point

526
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: that helped crystals when Kobe Bryant decided to retire And

527
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: here it's a little bit more complicated that he's on

528
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 4: a team that's not great but still good. They're not

529
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 4: in the lottery, and he's also playing not great but

530
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 4: still good, and so with that presents more challenges on

531
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 4: how do you try to find that final bow of

532
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: an exit.

533
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: Mark you're the best man. Enjoy Enjoy the All Star

534
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: Game and the All Star Break. We'll check in with

535
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: you on the other side. Thanks so much for being

536
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: our guest in the Doug Outlib Show.

537
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: A great to Rea and I with you, and congrats

538
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 4: with all your success.

539
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: Let's bring in my guy Matt Holliday, who of course

540
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: was a seven time All Star in in Major League Baseball,

541
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: and Matt, I did want to get your opinion on

542
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: the Caleb Durbin trade.

543
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 5: Caleb Durbin trade. So look, I think that I think

544
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 5: the Red Sox we're looking for somebody established. They have

545
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 5: some good young players. I think Marcelo Mayer is a

546
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 5: guy they're going to consider with with many more at

547
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 5: bats this year.

548
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 2: They have a guy named Mikey Romero.

549
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 5: They have some young players, but I think Caleb Durban

550
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 5: offers them.

551
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: A little bit more of they know what they're.

552
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 5: Going to get, and he can play a couple of

553
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 5: different positions, and he's established himself kind of in this

554
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 5: grinder mode that they're trying to adopt. As you know,

555
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: they lose Alex Bregman, who kind of brought that element

556
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 5: to their team last year. I think they're looking for

557
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: a guy similar to Alex Bregman and and and.

558
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: That sort of grinder guy. It's worked his way up.

559
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 5: Not overly big and talented, but you know, just kind

560
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 5: of figures things out. And then I think that the

561
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 5: Brewers maybe you know, selling high, maybe they they pick

562
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 5: up a high high, tighly talented, it hasn't quite put

563
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 5: it together, left handed pitcher and Harrison. I think they're

564
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 5: they're maybe looking at they have enough of guys like

565
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 5: Durban that they can, you know, they can trade him high.

566
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: He had to come off of.

567
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 5: A really nice season and and maybe pick up a

568
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 5: high end uh guy with stuff and Harrison a starter

569
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 5: potentially that if he puts it all together, it could

570
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 5: be you know.

571
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 2: More of a frontline starter.

572
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 5: So you know, I think it's probably just just that

573
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 5: when it comes down to.

574
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you try to get a chance at

575
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: another you know, like great power pitcher, and that's how

576
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: you got to win the playoffs, and they've been able

577
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: to find other Durban's out there. That makes sense. There's

578
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: also the financial ramifications of it, right, So there's this

579
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: new calls, especially from the small market teams, for a

580
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: salary cap. The CBA expires at the end of this

581
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: calendar year, so we still have the season to kind

582
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: of go through. Does a salary cap work? And will

583
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I mean we've always been told it never happens in

584
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball? Will it happen?

585
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 5: I mean, look it one, it depends on how hard

586
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: the the players are willing to fight. And previously they've

587
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 5: been willing to fight. They've been willing to they've been aligned,

588
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 5: and they've been willing to lose money and.

589
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: Sit out and be locked out.

590
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 5: I guess the owners are going to lock them out.

591
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 5: I don't know how strong the players Association is at

592
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 5: this time.

593
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: I think there's I think there's things.

594
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 5: That could be negotiated that maybe would soften their stands. Now,

595
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 5: if you bring the floor up, if you allow players

596
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 5: to get the free agency one year sooner, or you

597
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 5: allow them to get to arbitration one year sooner to

598
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 5: where players are making more money.

599
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: Earlier in their career.

600
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 5: To offset that, I think that might bring a conversation

601
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 5: to the table. I don't think it guarantees more equal

602
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: you know, sort of an equal playing field, because it

603
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 5: has been. I mean, the Dodgers have won the last two,

604
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 5: but if you look at the last five to ten years,

605
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: there's more parody in baseball than there is in football,

606
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 5: and even I don't know for sure in basketball, but

607
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 5: there's been parody in baseball despite the fact that.

608
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: There is no salary cap.

609
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 5: And yes, when Kyle Tucker gets the contract that he gets,

610
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 5: it certainly jumps off the page at a common sports

611
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 5: fan to say, well, the Dodgers doing that with Kyle

612
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 5: Tucker that we need. There's got to be a change,

613
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 5: There's got to be a salary cap, and so again

614
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: I don't know whether there's going to be one. I

615
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 5: do think, like I said earlier, if they're willing to

616
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 5: let players get to free agency younger, allow them to

617
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 5: make millions in arbitrary sooner, raise the floor where teams

618
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 5: have to pay players. And then what is the salary cap?

619
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 5: And does it keep rising as revenue keeps coming in

620
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 5: and so yeah, I mean there's a lot. So there's

621
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 5: a lot to dive into when you start talking about,

622
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 5: you know, a hard salary cap.

623
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: Matt, you're the best man. Really appreciate you get us

624
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: some clarity on this, and thanks so much for you

625
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: and our guests. All Right, that's it for this edition

626
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: of the Doug Gottlieb Show. Again, remember, okay, that the

627
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: NFL won, even if you hated it because you watched it.

628
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: The NFL always wins because they find ways to get

629
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: more and more money. And if you didn't like the

630
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, it's because the Super Bowl was a lot

631
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: like some NCAA tournaments where there were some upsets and

632
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: some injuries early, so it wasn't a true representation of

633
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: who the two best teams are. And if you're a

634
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: Bucks fan, and you're wondering, Hey, maybe Jannis not being

635
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: traded means he's going to be a Buck. When Mark

636
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: Medina says five percent, he means zero point five percent.

637
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: The Bucks are simply waiting and waiting because they don't

638
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: want to do what the Mavericks did, trading a guy

639
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: for a package, which is not deemed worthy of a

640
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: league MVP, a finals MVP, because you know what happens

641
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: when you do that mid season. Everybody gets fired, and

642
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: nobody particularly wants to get fired. There you go a

643
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: little knowledge for you, a little Yucks for you, a

644
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: little Doug Atleab show for you,