1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: It is so important to hear from law enforcement that 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: have solved cold cases, especially if you've got a case 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: that didn't have any DNA from a suspect, no suspect fingerprints, 4 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: and no murder weapon. Having the opportunity to sit and 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: listen to a detective, chief of police, or prosecutor is 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: a gift. What Clay Bryant gives us today is better 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: than a police academy training. You are straight up in 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: the front seat of his patrol car and he's given 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: you the best advice he can after decades and decades 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: and decades of being a law enforcement officer, being a detective, 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: being a chief of police. And I want everybody to 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: understand how important today is. It's not an active cold case, 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: but this is a training day. This is is the 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: essence of what Zone seven is. This is somebody that 15 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: I trust to have my back, to tell me the truth, 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: to help me in any situation that I find myself in, 17 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: good or bad. Clay Bryant is gonna be with you 18 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: tonight and next week, and he's gonna tell you how 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: he solved the cold case with no DNA, no murder weapon, 20 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: no eye witness, no finger prints, nothing, so you can 21 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: take what he's telling you and make it applicable to 22 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: your case and say, you know what, I might have 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: one partial print, but I'm gonna go back and talk 24 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: to this person, and then I'm gonna go to the 25 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: mechanic that she went to a week before. Nobody's ever 26 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: talked to him. And it could be the difference and 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: breaking your case wide open, or it's still sitting on 28 00:01:52,520 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: the shelf. He is literally giving you his playbook. In 29 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: the South, the Sunday drive or any driving trip serves 30 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: as a way for the family members to catch up, 31 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: entertain each other, and spend some captiviurs bonded. I loved 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: getting there as much as our final destination. When I 33 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: was younger, the seven of us piling into one car, laughing, singing, 34 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: playing road games with some of my favorite memories. But 35 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: the best time on those road trips we're after dark, 36 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: when the Atlanta radio station would fade at a range 37 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: and the car would get real quiet, and my mom 38 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: would take that opportunity with her slow Southern drawl to say, 39 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: you know what this road reminds me of? And the 40 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: five of us didn't even need to answer her, and 41 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: she would go right on, and she would say it 42 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: was night just like this one. We would hang on 43 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: every word she said. Those a long car trips, she 44 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: would tell us fantastic stories of Bonnie and Clyde criss 45 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: crossing the plains, or the back roads at Jackal Island, 46 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: where she would point out to the Atlantic with the 47 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: moonlight just hitting the ocean to show us where Blackbeard 48 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: anchored his ship. Or she might even tell us one 49 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: of the colorful stories of our own uncle Clark, like 50 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: the time he brought her diamond ear rings when she 51 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: was only six years old and told her he won 52 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: him gambling, but her mother always thought he took them 53 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: from some poor widow. That front seat was a place 54 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: we learned family history, heroic and unfortunate, a place we 55 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: visited uninterrupted with each other. And sometimes those stories were 56 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: to entertain us or to teach us some life lesson 57 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: and if you were lucky like in those stories helped 58 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: shape who you would become. Tonight you get to meet 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: a man that learned who he was not just in 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: the front seat of a car, but in the front 61 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: seat of his daddy's patrol car. Clay Bryant was raised 62 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: by a legendary law man Chief of Police Buddy Bryant. 63 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: Clay Bryant has been a law man his whole life. 64 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: Definitely one of the white hats. Now. I've spent some 65 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: time with Clay Bryant on the front seat of a 66 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: car too. He's Mayberry, with enough horse sense to fill 67 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: a room, and he's got a fearless natural presence. He 68 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: can talk to anybody and he ain't afraid of nothing. 69 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: We have theorized and worked on cases from the Dixie 70 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: Mafia to miss in persons to homegrown killers. He is 71 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: my mentor and he is my friend. He knew it 72 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: exactly what he wanted to be a police officer, and 73 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: a hot August morning in nineteen seventy would serve as 74 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: a defining moment for him. The crackling, grainy sound of 75 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: that old police radio alerted Chief Brant that a woman 76 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: have been found in a well. Chief Bryant looked at 77 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: his son Clay and said, let's go cold case. Clay, 78 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: as he's known, is here with us tonight. Chief welcome 79 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: to his own seven legend series. Thank you so much, surel, 80 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: I appreciate our union to come and be with you tonight. 81 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: I am thrilled to have you here, you know, goodwill, 82 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: I can hear your stories and listen to you talk 83 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: all night long. So let's go right to Hogansville nineteen 84 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: sixty where I know your daddy gave you some advice 85 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: because you gave it to me. He told you, even 86 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: the worst people have some good in them, and the 87 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: best people have some bad in them. Clay, tell us 88 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: about your daddy. Oh he was, I guess the best 89 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: way that he was the hell fellow and probably the 90 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: best criminal investigator that I've ever known, simply because he 91 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: knew people, you know, and what he said about that 92 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: the good and the worst of people and the bad 93 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: and the best of people is true. You have to 94 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: take people to what and who they are. I've been 95 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: helped by some of the best folks in the world, 96 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: and I've been helped by some of people that a 97 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: lot of people would consider the worst folks in the world. 98 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: But you know, everybody is of their own and that's 99 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: one thing if he taught me, he said, you know, well, 100 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: you take people for who they are and do the 101 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: best you can with what they already you use, and 102 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: that's what I've always tried to do. He was somewhat 103 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: of the sage he had told me. You know, my 104 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: dad always he wanted me to go to law school 105 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: open of nineteen eighty. He actively paid me to get 106 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: a lot of great but he always he knew what 107 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. I wanted to be a police officer. 108 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: He told me one time, he said, son, he said, 109 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: if you're bound determined to do this, he said, you 110 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: gonna be a police officer. He said, well, let me 111 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: tell you. He said, the world is full of police officers, 112 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: but God's sakes, try to be a peace officer. And 113 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: that kind of stuck with you. You know, He's right, 114 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: the world full of policeman, and there seems to be 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: less and less peace officers. And I hope when the 116 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: time comes and I remember, that's what I remembered as that, 117 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: I love everything about it. And I can tell you 118 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: there is no doubt that's how you're going to be remembered. 119 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: So right out of high school, you joined the State Patrol. 120 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: I did in our nineteen seventy three. I graduated high 121 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: school on the I think maybe, and I had a 122 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: place at the State Patrol Radio operator nineteen seventy three, 123 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: two days after I get out of high school and 124 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: I stayed there for until I turned one, and on 125 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: a turn twenty one, I promoted the trooper, and while 126 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: I was the youngest trooper in the state and had 127 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: had a good career with patrol, enjoyed it. Uh. And 128 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: then in n very unexpectedly, my dad passed away, had 129 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: a heart attack and died at the right old age 130 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: of forty six. When that happened, shortly thereafter, they offered 131 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: me his job. Whether it be for the right of 132 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: the wrong reasons, I took it. I know one thing. 133 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: I didn't take it for the retirement, because I was 134 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: under the old state system would have been much better off. 135 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: But anyway, I took the job and I never regretted it. Uh. 136 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, hometown guy, and it kind of hard to 137 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: fill in the footsteps of your father, you know. But 138 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: we did our best week. Uh. We did did a 139 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: lot of good and I stayed there for about twelve years. 140 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: Small town politics, you know how that goes. He gets 141 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: to where the rough places you'd rather be. That's a 142 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: whole another podcast, Sugar, that's right, that's right. But anyway, 143 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: I went to private sector and I started me a 144 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: commercial tire business and did it for a little while, 145 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: and then I was and I guess it was two 146 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: thousand and two. Job came open with the District Attorney's 147 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: office as an investigator for Peach Candillacs and the Callia circuit, 148 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: and uh I called him and he said, sure, if 149 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: you you know, I've known Pete a long time. And 150 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: he said, if you UH interested, I give a snap 151 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: the cash, and I like, very much like to hire you, 152 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: and he did, and that was the beginning of the 153 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: road were traveled. You know, I've got a whole lot 154 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: of respect for Pete, and I think the two of y'all, 155 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a formidable group right there, buddy. 156 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: So let me ask you something. It's your dad's birthday 157 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: and you get some kind of facts, right. I don't 158 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: know whether you can say you call it divine intervention, 159 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: that's what I think it is, or the luck of 160 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: the draw what. But my dad had a tremendous interest 161 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: in that old case. Uh In v. William Moore was 162 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: found on the morning of August the three in a 163 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: well adjacent to the house that she lived in. Of course, 164 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: she was at the bottom of it was a dry well, 165 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: and she was down in the bottom. She was deceased, 166 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: and there were always a lot of talk about what 167 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: went on in the more household, you know, in the 168 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: neighborhood and whatnot. And uh, my dad, it was absolutely 169 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: obvious because she had suffered tremendous beating when she was 170 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: lifted out of the well and on the cable of 171 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: the wrecker. Actually, it was not a pretty sight. And 172 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: here's the thing that I want people to absolutely remember. 173 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: You were standing there as a teenager, absolutely, and my 174 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: dad and now were at the police department and what 175 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: had happened. The sheriff's office called and they wanted him 176 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: to go out and take some pictures. The incident was 177 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: literally a stone's throw. It wasn't fifty yards from the 178 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: city limits, but it was outside of his jurisdiction. And 179 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: everybody in that part of the country knew that, yeah, 180 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: the husband had something to do with this. And even 181 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: the autopsy report by Dr Joseph kraftke he was he 182 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: was a very straightforward, straight up guy. He had, you know, 183 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: usually on a death certificate that it's a very mundane thing. 184 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't describe a lot of peculiarities. He made that 185 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: death certificate as specific as he possibly could have to 186 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: let someone know that this was a homicide, and he 187 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: marked homicide on the death certificate. But the old days 188 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: politics got involved in the corner came up with it 189 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: was an accident, and uh but Dr Kraft had to 190 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, he mentioned petitularly, you know, and things it 191 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,479 Speaker 1: would indicate that, but you know, it was she was strangled, 192 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: and she was strangled, and uh, the autopsy they did 193 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: back at that time was a hospital autopsies from They 194 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: didn't completely do the forensic autopsies that they do today. 195 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: It was just basically from the neck down and it's 196 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: more of a postmortem examination than it was anything. But 197 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: he described some brutality that went on that had been 198 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: documented a few days before, that type of thing, and 199 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: it was just absolutely horrific what the woman had suffered. 200 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: But how brilliant was that of Dr Kraft because that 201 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: he's gonna lay it out like that in the death certificate. Well, 202 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: it was it was the right thing to do, and 203 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: he did. He did his job, and he did it well. 204 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: And the only problem was that some old time politics 205 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: got involved back in that day. There was a lot 206 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: of that and uh, my dad is just absolutely mortified 207 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: by every time you just see her husband's name was 208 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: Marshall Moore in town. He'd say he ought to be 209 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: on death row in Titanhaw County. And you know, my 210 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: dad passed away and that this was in nineteen seventy 211 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: dead passed away in eighty. But you know, that case 212 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 1: never left him. He you know, he was just this 213 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: thing you just don't mistreat people that I there and 214 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: later on as I investigated the case, this was the 215 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: longest standing case of spousal abuse and I've ever seen. 216 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: It went on for years, even to the point beating 217 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: until she lost a child in that child bearer in 218 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: Sweetwater Cemetery in Pauling County. I went up there in 219 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: solid grave myself. But the long and the short of 220 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: it was was kind of got swept under the rug 221 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: and nothing came up. So I've been I went to 222 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: work for Peach Candilacas and uh October of the fifteenth 223 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: of two thousand and two. It was a new job, 224 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: and I was enjoying myself, you know, in the role 225 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: and my dad, Now we were so close. We fished, 226 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: we hunted, and you know, he was my best friend 227 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: and I was his. And very few you know, father days, 228 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: birthdays and things like that, and just you know, they've 229 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: weighed heavily on my mind. But just I had this 230 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: new thing going on and I could not you know, 231 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: I forgot my dad's birthday. On October, I get a 232 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: call from the SHARE's office and they say, Chris, did 233 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: you remember back in the day up in Hogan's Form, 234 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: right outside of Hogan for a lady was found in 235 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: a well on the Marbley Bridge Road. And I said, 236 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: not only do I remembered. I was standing there when 237 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: they got right of the well. And Larry Arrington was 238 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: the investigator with the SHARE's office. He said, club we uh, 239 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: young ladies came in here and had his death certificates 240 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: mark homicide. He said, we don't even have the record. 241 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: I was like it never existed. I said, well, it 242 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: existed because I was there. He said, I'm gonna send 243 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: her over to you. He's I'm gonna send you a 244 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: copy of this death certificate. I'll fact it over to you, 245 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna send the young lady over there see 246 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: if you can help her find some resolution to what 247 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: she's trying to find it about her aunt. And that 248 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: was weender Lt Moore and uh, he facts is the 249 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: thing to me, and I have not thought about my 250 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: dad's birthday to that minute. I looked at the top 251 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: on the facts line the origin and it says October 252 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: the twenty four. This came to me on my dad's birthday. 253 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: It was it was so sobering to me. It's just 254 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: like he said, you know, try to make this right. 255 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: So well, that's a sign to me, and no doubt 256 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: about it. And I'll be honest with you. There have 257 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: been things and I had a lot of love in 258 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: solving these some several old cases. And uh, it always 259 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: seemed like when I get to an impass at a 260 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: place where you know who you're gonna turn. Now, it 261 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: was just like a guy in then I was on 262 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: my shoulder and put him in the right direction. You know, 263 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, for you you can think what you want. Huh. 264 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: I always think it was my daddy's guy in name. 265 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: But uh, there's a there's just somethings I can't can't 266 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: explain about some other cases. It had to be divine intervention. 267 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: That's the only thing it could. But to my satisfaction anyway, 268 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: a legend in the State of Georgia, Chief Buddy Bryant, 269 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: after he was honorably discharged from the Air Force. He 270 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: went to work in Cayty County, Georgia, and he started 271 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: his career with Chief Lamar Potts. Now you may know 272 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: that name because he was involved with the famous move 273 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: in books murdering Caledy County. If you're not familiar with it. 274 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: One of the richest men in Marybether County had somebody 275 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: working for him that was running some shine. He didn't 276 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: like it. Short version, he pistol whipped him and the 277 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: man died. The wealthy landowner, i believe, is one of 278 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: the wealthiest men that ever received the death penalty, and 279 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: that death penalty was carried out and he had two 280 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,239 Speaker 1: witnesses that testified against him, both African American. So it's 281 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: a real famous case. But Chief Bryant was an unusual 282 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: small town police chief. He believed in educating himself. He 283 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: believed in training himself. He was an FBI trained fingerprint expert. 284 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: He attended the Southern Police Institute in Louisville, Kentucky. Those 285 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: were rare things that he attained that again unheard of. 286 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: He was also an E. M. T. Because back in 287 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: the day when he started in the sixties, the amulances 288 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: ran out of the police department, so he made sure 289 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: if anybody needed him on any level, he was able 290 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: to get out there and help him. So when Clay 291 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: talks about his daddy, that's who he's talking about, a 292 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: well trained, well educated, devoted chief of police. I remember 293 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: what you told me about this case. You said, this 294 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: needs to be made right. Oh it was. This was this. 295 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: This was probably one of the most longstanding cases of 296 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: brutality that I had ever seen. But I did know 297 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: that we were fixing to open up some You know, 298 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: this guy had remarried and had another child and when 299 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: he when he killed Gwendoline. She and he had four 300 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: children together, and the oldest boy was named Alan, and 301 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: he and I were in school together this time where 302 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the eighth or ninth grade. I guess Alan was one 303 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: year younger than I, but I knew him. You knew 304 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: him well, you know, it's Hogre from George. You know, 305 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: everybody I kind of lost touch with Alan didn't know 306 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: anything about it. But when this came up, I said, well, 307 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: the first thing I need to do is to contact 308 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: somebody in the family. And uh, I was able to 309 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: find out that Alan, but his daddy didn't spare his 310 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: children either from his brutality. And and I found out 311 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: as I investigated the case and talked to family members 312 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: on both sides of the family that his life prior 313 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: to going to Atlanta was he was living up in 314 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: the North Georgia Mountains and his family came from a 315 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: legacy of family brutality. Matter of fact, Martial's sister told 316 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: me that there grandfather beat your grandmother there to death 317 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: and burned her on a pyre in Raven County, and 318 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: back in the thirties, you can't even imagine, you know, 319 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: living through within anything like that. But long and as 320 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: short of it was that I called Alan, and Alan 321 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: had actually a situation that happened at the house he 322 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: would father was beating him. They called the neighbors, called 323 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office, and the deputies told him says, well, son, 324 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: if you don't like where you at, you can leave. 325 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: And at the right old age of fourteen, he took 326 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: off walking and he walked to Lagrange about fifteen miles 327 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: and his aunt's seen took him in and he told 328 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: a lie about his age and went to work in 329 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: the Dixie cotton mill. He also got him a g 330 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: e D and as quick as he was able. When 331 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: he turned seventeen, Aunt seen who had made it herself. 332 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: His guardian signed for him to going Navy, and he 333 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: had a career from the Navy, retired there and he 334 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: was an electronics technician and he had gotten a job 335 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: with Cornell Corrections and they run the d Ray James 336 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: Prison down in South Georgia, and that's where I found him. 337 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: I called him that morning and said, Alan, you remember me. 338 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: He said, yes, like I did. And I told him 339 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: what I wanted to do. I said, I think the 340 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: cash needs you to be opening and and you know, 341 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: you could tell he was broken up about it. And 342 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: I said, you know, we need to talk about this 343 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: in personnel. This isn't important. You know, it's a decision 344 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: you need to talk over with some of your relatives 345 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: and whatnot. I said, because it's going to affect a 346 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: lot of people. And he said, well, I can tell 347 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: you this. The main thing that I'd like to see 348 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: some justice. Sleep with my mama, he said, I'll never 349 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: forget in my life, crawling under the neckdule neighbor's house 350 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: to night that she was killed, and seeing what he 351 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: had done to her. And you know what, Clare, That's 352 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: the thing that pops into my mind every time I 353 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: think about this case. Is this woman. Her go to 354 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: was to run and hide under the neighbor's house because 355 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: he wouldn't look for her there, and then the children 356 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: don't knew it. And that's where Alan goes to comfort 357 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: her and check on her and tries to get her 358 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: to run away with him. He said, he told me, 359 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, I actually got him to meet me on 360 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: oh down around cordials, so I can't remember which exactly 361 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: where it was down around court to you and it 362 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: was cold and in November then, and he sat there 363 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: and through the two years, you know, he told me 364 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: about what he saw that night, what had been happening, 365 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: things had happened in the past, and you know, I 366 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: think he said, you know, I've been beat with everything 367 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: from shoes to sticks and wrenches. Thank you, we can't 368 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: even imagine. And he said, and he said, he said 369 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: to my mama, he said, when he could get in 370 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: a rage with us, he said, my mama would step 371 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: in and she said she he said, I don't know 372 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: how many beaten us. Ain't her take for us kids? 373 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: You know, here, I am raised by loving parents, you know, 374 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: And it's just the trump of what he lived through. 375 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: I don't see it, you know, I don't see I 376 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: made a life for himself like he did. But but 377 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: he was successful anyway. He talked with several of his relatives. 378 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: And the young lady that found a death certificate, she 379 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: found a death certificate while she was cleaning out the 380 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: effects of the grandmother who had passed away. And she 381 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: ran across this death certificate and it looked at it 382 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: in Mark thomicide. She never even had heard of Gwendoline. 383 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: Who would who would have her aunt? And she asked 384 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: folks in the family, and they said, you know, yes. 385 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: And she lived a brutal existence and she tried to 386 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: get away a time or two, but he'd always go 387 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: and get her and bring her back and threatened the children, 388 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: and she didn't come back, and she lived under that 389 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: direst you know, for years. Again, it was just I 390 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: can't even imagine the information that came forth from members 391 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: of the family of what she withstood over the years. 392 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: And you know, that's another thing. When you look at 393 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: any investigation you're doing and you start to list the suspects, 394 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: there's only one here. The thing about her social circle, 395 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, the neighbors and her friends and extended family. 396 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: They all knew. They watched it. They called, they called 397 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement on many occasions, and nothing that was ever done. 398 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: He had he had found some friendship with some folks 399 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: and in the area down there that there's only there's 400 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: only one way to explain. It was the graft of 401 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: the situation, you know. And you gotta pass. You gotta 402 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: passed the two thousand and two. So I want you 403 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: to tell us how you started connecting those dots for 404 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: a prosecution. The stay and truth is, you know, I 405 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: like to claim a lot of responsibility for being somewhat 406 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: of a genius, but it's just not true. This this 407 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: case was an absolute You know, when a twelve year 408 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: old boy sits down in front of you and says, 409 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: my daddy killed my mama, and if he knows I'm 410 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: talking to you, he will kill me too. That and 411 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: that he had found her that night and her eyes 412 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: were swollen, beaten, swollen shut, and all that just goes 413 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: out the window when I actually found the case file. 414 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: You know, back in the old day, if a sheriff 415 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: and the g B I not, then wasn't what it 416 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: is today in the leat you know, law enforcement entity. 417 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: It was, you know, each patrol post had a g 418 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: b I agent. It was an old state trooper. And 419 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 1: and the exact words I think was they worked at 420 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 1: the pleasure of the sheriff. Anytime there was a case 421 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: where something that was the sheriff would see being as 422 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: a political liability to him, he'd throw that liability on 423 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: the gb I. He controlled the outcome and he wouldn't 424 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: have to suffer the consequences of But you know, the 425 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: neighbors had all seen this going on. All of them 426 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 1: knew what had happened. The turners had had hidden her 427 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: under their house a number of times when she'd be 428 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: running away and had been beaten. And it's just went 429 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: on and on, and as far as the dots to connect, 430 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: the main thing that we had to have. I went 431 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: back and reinterviewed witnesses and the people that the night 432 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: that just happened, and they came forth with very good 433 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: and solid testimony or what what they had seen take 434 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: place during the night, not just what was found under 435 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: the house when she was under the house before she 436 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: had undily came out from one of the house that 437 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: was taken out from one of the house by archer. 438 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: But what led up to her being under there, the 439 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: beating that she suffered next to her neighbor and stood 440 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: there and you know, these are back in old they 441 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: were calling shotgun houses, and they were, you know, straight 442 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: up house. In nineteen seventy one air conditioning another this 443 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: thing they had the window sells up. He stood on 444 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: the porch and and watched her take a tremendous beating 445 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: from him. And then he said, you know, and and 446 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: and and there was a line that he said that 447 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: I will it will stick to me till the day 448 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: I die. Guy's name was Ronnie turn Me and Ronnie 449 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: were about the same age, and he and Allen the naper, 450 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, the families when they could have played together. 451 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: He said, you know, and he called me chief, he 452 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: said she so, I'm just I'm just gonna tell you. 453 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: He described exactly what she had on. He described the beating, 454 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: He described her crawling up a bed post. And I 455 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: looked at him and I said, Ronnie, how in the 456 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: world can you remember the detail of this so vividly? 457 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: This happened thirty three years ago, and you saw it 458 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: one time. And his answer to me was and running 459 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: was not a super educated guy. He looked me in 460 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: I said, no, Chief, I saw this every day for 461 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: thirty three years. How powerful a statement, you know, that 462 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: is a powerful statement. Well decided with what we had, 463 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: and we had remembers of the Turners family next door 464 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: that hit her under the house that night. Ronnie's statement 465 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: and his mother's statement where uh from what they had seen. 466 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: But we didn't have a cause of death. The corner 467 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: has got got it ruled as an accidental death. But 468 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: now we have this death certificate from Dr Crafta who 469 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: had long since passed away. I contact the g v 470 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: I and say, look, you know Pete. Pete says, we 471 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: got to have a cause of death because we if 472 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: we don't, we get our first base, you know. I 473 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: contacted Chris Berry, he was the director of the crime 474 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: Lab at the time. Chris said, yeah, play, I'd be 475 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: glad to if you will. If you get her exhumed, 476 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: we'll do another autopsy. And he said, but you know 477 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: it's gonna be she'd been down thirty three years. I 478 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: didn't give you a whole lot of hope about it, 479 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: but I always felt, you know, new Duck Sperry and 480 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: he was pretty much a world renowned pathologist criminal pathologist. 481 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: So I contacted Alan and he talked with his aunt 482 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: Pat and the family, you know, and we had a 483 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: meeting with victims advocate myself, Pete and them, and to 484 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: a person, they said, look, justice had been Withheld and 485 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: Windland for over thirty years and we would like for 486 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: the truth to be told. We explained to them, you know, 487 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: the chances of this going following on its as we're 488 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: as good as it really doing any good because we 489 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: didn't know what we're gonna find. They all went forward. 490 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: We got the judge to sign an exhamation for us, 491 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: and we exhumed a body to the crime lab and 492 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: it will be at Linda Calwell, who was one of 493 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: my favorite folks. She was prosecutor in the office there 494 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: and she had I was work in the case with 495 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: with her, you know, she was my go to and 496 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: she told me she she had gotten so involved in 497 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: the case and we went up together. After the exhamation, 498 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: we followed the the truck. The coffin was on the 499 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: crime lab and we sat there and they opened the 500 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: coffin and the skeletal remains were intact. I mean they were, 501 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, anatomically correct, but like all graves in Clip Cemetery, 502 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: I didn't realize this. The bones were just ebony, shining black. 503 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is the tannic acid in 504 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: the grass clippings leach down into the ground. And you know, 505 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: and coffins and concrete vaults, they just fill up with 506 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: water when you open one. Generally the coffins float. That 507 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: water is black, and it had actually died. Her skeletal 508 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: remains just as shiny jet black as you could ever imagine. 509 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: And I've never seen that before. Doctor Sperry explained that 510 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: process to us. You know, of course, the coffin itself was, 511 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, the only thing that was still intact. The 512 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: top of everything was made from silk. She had on 513 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: a pair of stockings, and that it kept her leg bones, 514 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: everything together and everything else is during the process of 515 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: decomposition of slave. Where it was in the coffin, but 516 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: it was full of sludge and mud, you know, And 517 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: Sparry would take out a peace he was building her 518 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: back on a gurney next to her coffin. He looked 519 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: at the skull. We thought, what we thought was that 520 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna find a skull fracture, and she probably died 521 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: of a closed head head inch. Well, he picked the 522 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: skull up and he washed it, and he looked around. 523 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: He looked at it. It was close and examined, you know, 524 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: with a microcount with the mark scull with a magnifying glass. 525 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: Lendon and I were sitting there. He said, so far, 526 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: I don't see anything that I can definitively say there 527 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: is a cause of death. Lendon sitting against the wall 528 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: with tears running out of our eyes because we thought 529 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: we had, you know, would come as far. And all 530 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: of a sudden we come to the end of the road. 531 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: We're sitting there and we're discussing what not to do 532 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: and all the pain and we don't cause all these 533 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: folks and to relieve this thing. And Doc Sperry is 534 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: taking her out, piece by piece the cervical spine, and 535 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: as he's building along and he got down into the 536 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: lower part of her neck, and all of a sudden 537 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: he says, huh, this is kind of provocative. And he 538 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: looked toward us and said, it's not predocative. This is murder. 539 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: And her highway bone was fractured by latterly, just as 540 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: textbook if you had taken both your thumbs and cracked 541 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: it off both sides, he said, manual strangulation that goes 542 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: right dead, along with this death certificate for the particular hemorrhages, 543 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: the things that were found and low and behold, we 544 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: had our case and we were able to arrest him. 545 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: But now the only problem with the case was he 546 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: was in the later stages of his life. He developed 547 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: through cancer and through legal maneuvering, and put it off 548 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: or like a year and a half. Finally it came 549 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: a time he was supposed to have some surgeries and 550 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: some medical procedures, and under the guys that he was 551 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: gonna have many didn't And Judge Allen Kieble said, we're 552 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 1: gonna try, and if we try, and and on a 553 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: bed here in the courtroom. So shortly before our next 554 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: court date, he'd re entered the hospital. One of the 555 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 1: nurses up there and told me that he just quit 556 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: having any in taking other than face the music. He 557 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: decided he'd go away, and he did, and by the 558 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: time that we should have been trying him, he passed away. 559 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: But for the last year and a half of his 560 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: life he knew what he had done, had been exposed 561 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: the family got to say, you know, somebody stood stood 562 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: up for Gwendole. That was one of the proudest times 563 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: of my life, was knowing that we had done all 564 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: we could to write what I saw was being one 565 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: of the most tragic wrongs that I'd ever witnessed in 566 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: my lifetime. Never being proud of anything. And I sit 567 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: down at night when we were working on the case. 568 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of crazy. I'd sit down and I couldn't 569 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: sleep and be on my mind. I started writing. I 570 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: wrote Gwendoline story, kept it on the shelf for twenty years, 571 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: never did anything with it. I went to a dove 572 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: shoot of All Thing a friend of mine, Dr John Williams. 573 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: He's a creative writing guy Lagrange College. We were sitting 574 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: there talking to done got by three deep in a 575 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: six pack of Google Lighting, and he was talking. He's 576 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: been published several times and he puts on workshops of 577 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: how to get books published. And he was talking about 578 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: a book that he had had just had published about 579 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: the Atlanta jazz culture. And I was laughing and I said, well, 580 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: doctor hell, I wrote a book, and he laughed. He said, well, 581 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: I'd like to read it. Clay about a week later, 582 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: I took him, it's just had a notebook, the book 583 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: that I've written about Cundall. About a week later he 584 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: called me, he said, Clay, He said, if you ever 585 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: tried to get this published? I said, no, docor never have. 586 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know anything about it. He said, 587 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: well I do, He said, this, this will publish. Of 588 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: course I wasn't you know, you've been sitting on the 589 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: chef for twenty years. I had let several people read 590 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: it and that they don't know any more about it. 591 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: And I did And he said, did you would you 592 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: mind if I submitted? I said, but you know, I 593 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: didn't even really had it professionally edit or anything. He said, 594 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: Glad really doesn't need any which I was shocked to 595 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: hear that. You know, you were talking about an old 596 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: country policeman, you know. He sent it off and a 597 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, a guy from the History Press 598 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: called me and said, hey, we want to publish your book. 599 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: My first question, well, how much does that cost me? 600 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: You know? And he said, no, sons will actually pay you. 601 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: The rest is history and it's a great book, solving 602 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: the West Georgia murder of one land More cry Well 603 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: cry from the Well, and I think every investigator in 604 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: the country should read it. I have tremendous respect for 605 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: all the technology that has advanced, you know, forensics over 606 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: the past several years, especially the last probably with DNA 607 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,439 Speaker 1: and those things. Great, you know, great things, and uh, 608 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: but they're still room. We're sitting down talking to somebody. 609 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: You know, in an old case, people's thoughts and their 610 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: values change. People that were scared thirty years ago might 611 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: not be scared today. And I found that in several 612 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: of the cases that I had that I had worked on, 613 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: where people came forward and said, yeah, I knew this 614 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: and this is what took place. It's led to several 615 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: convictions for me, and God, I thank them for what 616 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: they did. And age you had to tell the stories 617 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: and they would just had a really good run. And 618 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: so appreciative to everybody that came forth and helped to 619 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: tell the truth and help tell the story went on. 620 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: The more it was, I said, one of the highlights, 621 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: surely that the highlight of my professional career at the 622 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: time and and still is today. They got me started 623 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: and led to some others, and you know, I appreciate 624 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: the opportunity to work with the wonderful people that I did, 625 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: and Pete and people like Lyndon. Uh, it was just 626 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: a good time. And I will say this though, during 627 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: my time of working with these old cases, there some 628 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies, especially folks are tied to politics. They 629 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: are so territorial. A lot of them don't like the 630 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: facts you come back behind them and check their work. 631 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: Even folks that I considered my friend. I lost a 632 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: couple of guys that I considered friends and never after 633 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: a couple of these cases never spoke to me again. 634 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: Totally never understand it. You know, that is what it is. Chief. 635 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. I appreciate all your advice through the years, 636 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: and I appreciate your friendship. And I just want to say, 637 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: I think tonight you're taking us for a ride in 638 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: the front seat of your patrol car. Has just been remarkable. 639 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: Let me tell you it was a good ride. We're 640 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: talking about my dad earlier. I knew if the one 641 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: thing you told me is I want to throw think 642 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: you throw in there, you know. Uh. He was riding 643 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: on me one night when I was on the state patrol, 644 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: probably in the late seventies. We're riding along, we were 645 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: talking about uh, a couple of things. You know, I'm 646 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,399 Speaker 1: bringing us up, he says. You know, son, he said, 647 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: the downfall, oh police, and was the day they put 648 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: an air condition in the patrol car. I looked at 649 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: him and I said, Dad, you've lost your mind. What 650 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: are you talking about? He said, Son, that day it 651 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: became comfortable to isolate yourself from the people that you 652 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: need most to be in contact with and to serve. 653 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: How profound is that? That is profound? And it's true. 654 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: I was told years and years ago when I was 655 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: in my early twenties. I guess to always keep the 656 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: wind to roll down, no matter how hard or cold 657 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: it was, for that same purpose, so people could speak 658 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: to you and you can speak to them. You've got 659 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: to be part of the community and police. And I 660 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: don't know if it's because of population of the way 661 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: we've done things so, but we've gotten a way of 662 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: being having that officer that is part of the community 663 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: that people trust, that people talk to, and a lot 664 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: of because we isolated ourselves from and we at times 665 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: have created the impression of its it's against them, and 666 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: when it should be the total opposite, it should be us. 667 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, Amen, Amen, I'm gonna end this episode like 668 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: I always do, well a quote from somebody that's in 669 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: my Zone seven or that I respect tonight. That quote 670 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:14,280 Speaker 1: comes from Jim Clementy, retired FBI agent and profiler. Jim says, 671 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: when you enter a crime scene, don't focus on things. 672 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: Take in the whole location, Sit there, smell, taste the air. 673 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 1: Then let your subconscious do the math and go with 674 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: your gut feeling. I'm Sharyl McCollum, and this is Zone seven. 675 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: H