1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: So I was on X one day and I came 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: across this clip. Listen. 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: I think that the media really really wants to put 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 2: this narrative out there that Biden is going to lose 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: Michigan over Gaza, and the truth is he's going to 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: lose Michigan over six hundred thousand auto workers because his 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: ev market was extremely punishing to auto workers. And like 8 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: we said earlier, there's been this big realignment where working 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: class Americans are very, very very much on the Trump train. 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: People who used to be Democrats and used to vote 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: for Democrats, and rather than admit that this outrage that 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: Democrats lost the working class vote and try to figure 13 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: out how we can appeal to them again, they're looking 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: for excuses and other things to blame, like oh, this 15 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: Warren Gaza, or they'll call them deplorables, or they'll call 16 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: them racists, you know, because they don't want to admit that. 17 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: Trump has picked up a lot of the policies that 18 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: used to be Democratic policies in the nineties, like controlling 19 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: the border, for example, the idea that an open border 20 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: and mass migration is extremely punishing to the working class. 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: It drives down their wages, it's class warfare against the 22 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: working class. It is an upward transfer of wealth from 23 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 2: the working class who end up competing with immigrants, to 24 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: the elites who end up employing them. And now they 25 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: can employ cheap immigrants instead of having to pay working 26 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: class Americans a living wage. 27 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: So as Batya and Gar Saragan. She's the opinion editor 28 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: of Newsweek. She is also the author of the new 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: book Second Class, How the Elites Betrayed America's working men 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: and women. So today we're going to have her on 31 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: the show and we're going to ask her who are 32 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: the nation's elites, how did they sell out the working class? 33 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 1: And what does that mean for the twenty twenty four 34 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: presidential election. This is a really interesting conversation. She is 35 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: very smart and this is an incredible book. She took 36 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: the time to go around the country and to speak 37 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: with so many working class voters and Americans from housekeepers 38 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: to healthcare aids to cops, truck drivers, fast food workers, electricians, 39 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: the list goes on. You're not going to want to 40 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: be this conversation. Stay tuned for Badja. So, yeah, congratulations, 41 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: your book is out. I know it's been a labor 42 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: of love. It sounds like you put so much work 43 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: into it, So congratulations and I'm really looking forward to 44 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: to digging into it. 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you so much for 46 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: having me, Lisa. It's such a thrill to be here 47 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: with you. 48 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Well, I saw your clip that made the rounds after 49 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: Real Time, and I reached out to you and I 50 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: was like, I got to have you on my show. 51 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: We need to talk about this subject. And then, you know, 52 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: we had talked about when to have you on when 53 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: the book was out so that we could fully engage 54 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: in it. So I'm looking forward to what was the 55 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: reaction after Real Time? You know, did you think Democrats 56 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: realized that, you know, they have a problem with working voters. 57 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 2: I actually think they do. And what's amazing to watch 58 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 2: is is that the liberal media, which is always trying 59 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: to protect them from realizing this, is trying to run 60 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 2: the same playbook that they ran in twenty sixteen when 61 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: they just called everybody who voted for Trump racist. But 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: it's really falling flat because Trump is now polling so 63 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: well with Hispanic voters and even with black voters, and 64 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: so that playbook they have where they use race as 65 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: a smoke screen for class to distract from the ways 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: in which the Democrats abandoned the working class. It's just 67 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: not working this time around, and that's really amazing to see. 68 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: I feel like we've really made strides as a nation 69 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 2: in terms of recognizing how much we've betrayed the working 70 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: class on both sides. Thanks to Trump in large part, 71 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: we're able to see that now. So it's a little 72 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: bit different, and I think, you know, as a result, 73 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: the reaction to the Bill Maher clips were pretty positive, 74 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: I felt, even from people who were sort of center left. 75 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: When did Trump's message start resonating with you? Personally? 76 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: I had the Trump arrangement syndrome. I'm so embarrassed to 77 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: admit it now, but I did for like at least 78 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: two years. I really was in that headspace, and it 79 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: really to shift for me in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. 80 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: And it's one of those things where when you like, 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: when you start to see it, especially if you're on 82 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: the left, your initial reaction is like, oh no, yeah, 83 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: because you know, hating Trump is a sort of card 84 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: of entree to the left, and if you lose that, 85 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: you sort of can no longer be a member in 86 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: good standing. So it started to shift for me around 87 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, and then after the twenty twenty election, 88 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: you know, when you started to see really the in 89 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 2: real time the devastating impact of the Democrats economic policy 90 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: on the working class. Just seeing that develop and cascade. 91 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: The open border, the inflation, the ridiculous climate agenda, all 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: of this is really class warfare against the working class. 93 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: It's a plunder of the middle class by the over 94 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: credentialed college elites. When I started to really see that 95 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: and understand just what Donald Trump had done to sort 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 2: of try to stop that hemorrhaging, then it really sunk in. 97 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: And so I guess that led you to writing this 98 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: book that we're about to get into Second Class. How 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: the elites betrayed America's working men and women. I guess 100 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: who would you specify as the ones who betrayed America 101 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: as working men and women. 102 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 2: It was really both parties, I would say, But of 103 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: course the old version, the pre Trump version of the 104 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: Republican Party, never made any pretense to representing labor in 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: the working class, so the betrayal was sort of a 106 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: lot less deep. The Democrats were once the party of 107 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: the working class, and still pretend to be. And actually 108 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: it was their policies. So Bill Clinton signing NAFTA into 109 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: law and shipping five million good working class jobs overseas 110 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: to build up the middle class in China and Mexico, 111 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 2: Barack Obama showing up and saying those jobs aren't coming back. 112 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: If you don't go to college, you don't deserve the 113 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: American dream. And then Joe Biden coming in and opening 114 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: the border to further devalue the jobs that remain by 115 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: importing twelve million slaves, cartel slaves basically to compete with 116 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: American working class people. You know, those were really uh, 117 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: I mean, each of those is a huge, huge betrayal 118 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: of people who used to be the Democrats based So 119 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: that was sort of, you know, front and center in 120 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: my mind. Although of course the GOP, which was once 121 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 2: you know, the party of you know, the country clubs 122 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: and free trade and the Chamber of Commerce, tax cuts, 123 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: you know, as the only thing that they care about, 124 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 2: also is a huge betrayal of the working class. And 125 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: you know, Lisa, when I see you on Fox, you 126 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: are so good on this. I'm always sitting there cheering 127 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: you on when you're on out Numbered because you make 128 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: this point so often, which is that, you know, if 129 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: the GOP wants to remain competitive, they simply cannot go 130 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: back to the you know, Nikki Hayley version of the party. 131 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 2: The party now is the party that Trump made, and 132 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 2: that upsets the elites on both sides, right, because he's 133 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: speaking directly to the voter base and sort of circumventing 134 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: the Republican donor base. 135 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Well, that's very kind, and I very much enjoy watching 136 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: you and you're on TV. You're so smart and you 137 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: always make really eloquent points. Why do you think, I 138 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: guess I'm curious. How do you think what led to 139 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: Democrats sort of becoming this party of the coastal leads. 140 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: I mean, even you just look at the climate policies, right, 141 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean you were talking about this on real time 142 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: about how Joe Biden's push for electric vehicles is going 143 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: to crush working voters, particularly in states like Michigan. So 144 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: I guess what led them to that point? You know, 145 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: how do you think they arrived at that point? I guess. 146 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: So it's a great question because a lot of these 147 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: policies were both the cause of but also the result 148 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: of a shift in orientation in the Democratic Party away 149 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: from the working class and towards the college educated, the suburban, 150 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: the urban voter. The Democrats are now this weird amalgamation 151 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: of you know, the top ten twenty percent in terms 152 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: of income who have these sort of degrees upon degrees 153 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: upon degrees which they get from these prestigious universities where 154 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: they learned to sneer at the working class, but also 155 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: the poor. The Democrats also represent the poor. So what 156 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: they have is, you know, all of their policies are 157 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: i say, class warfare against the working class, because they 158 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: are designed to put money in the pockets of the 159 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: college educated elites, but also the dependent poor who don't work, 160 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: both of whom are in competition with the working class 161 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: or whose interests are intention with the working class. Why 162 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: this happened was we had a great sorting where a 163 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: lot of liberal minded people left the sort of middle 164 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: of America and migrated to big cities into the coasts. 165 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: They increasingly got college degrees, and they were increasingly ensconced 166 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: in very tight bubbles of only other like minded people. 167 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 2: And so when you have a lot of people going 168 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: to college, what they do there is our universities are 169 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: no longer really institutions of education, particularly the humanities and 170 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 2: the social sciences. The thing they really do is inculcate 171 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 2: a sense of elitism and a sense of privilege in 172 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: the people who go there, who see themselves as on 173 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 2: the right side of history and as much better people 174 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 2: than the people who don't go to college. They learn 175 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: a contempt for the working class because when you spend 176 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars and you're not getting an education, 177 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: what you are getting is status. That's what the university 178 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: system confers. So you suddenly had a lot of people 179 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: who were going to these universities feeling like they were 180 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: better than everybody else. They got this status, access to 181 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 2: this network of other people who thought that they were 182 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: much better than everybody who didn't go to college, and 183 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: that elitism created a sense of we should tell everybody 184 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: else how to live, we should get to rule. We 185 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: have essentially right now, an oligarchy of the credentials. Obama 186 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: was big on this. He wanted to be only surrounded 187 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: by people who had gone to Harvard or Yale and Princeton, 188 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: and they believe that they should be able to tell 189 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: the working class not only how to live, but what 190 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: to believe, and we're seeing right now a mass revolved 191 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: against that, but effectively, because in their minds they developed 192 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: contempt for labor and for the working class and for 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 2: people who don't have a college degree, they also created 194 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: an economy that works really well for them because they 195 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: don't see working class jobs as worthy of dignity. Therefore 196 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: they created an economy that also devalued those jobs economically. 197 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: That's such a good point. And then even when you know, 198 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: when you said the word status, it even came into 199 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: my mind. You know how the left really has this 200 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: sort of like victimhood class and it's like transgender, this black, 201 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's like all these different groups and being 202 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: in those groups sort of give you, you know, some 203 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: element of status. Uh So you know that kind of 204 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: just outo my mind, just for clarification purposes, how would 205 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: you define the working class in America? 206 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: So this is definitely something I struggled with. 207 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, that's what I was thinking. 208 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: I was like that, you know, really hard. I you know, 209 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: the whole introduction is my sort of attempt to do 210 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 2: that with examples. So the book has there's a lot 211 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: of data in it, but every piece of data you 212 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: have a person, a character, a narrative, a story that 213 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: exemplifies that data point. You know. There's a lot of 214 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: ways to define it. Some people say it's whether your 215 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 2: father had a college degree. Some people say whether it's 216 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: you have a college degree. Somebody say it's whether you 217 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: make you know under one hundred thousand dollars a year. 218 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: Some people say it's whether you make you know the 219 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: median income, which is about sixty thousand dollars a year 220 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: for a household. There are many ways to define it. 221 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: I believe that the real divide in America is this 222 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: class divide that separates out the college educated from the 223 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: working class. If you have a college degree, you have 224 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: access to a much more stable existence and probably the 225 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: American dream. Not everyone, of course, but by and law, 226 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: college educated Americans make about a million dollars more over 227 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: the course of their career than a person without a 228 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: college degree. They have better health, they live longer, and 229 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: they're not be set by the plagues of working class life, 230 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: who are often the victims of crime or overdoses, deaths 231 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: of despair, and just downward mobility as we've seen over 232 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: the last fifty years. So to me, the definition that 233 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 2: I ended up with was. A working class person is 234 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: a somebody who works in an industry that does not 235 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: require a skill set you learn in college, who has 236 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: been locked out of the top twenty percent. So I'm 237 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: not talking about rich people we all know, you know, 238 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: plumbers and electricians who've made it, you know, make more 239 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: money than I do. Right, and God bless them, right, 240 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: God bless this country. I'm talking about people who are, 241 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 2: you know, maked under one hundred and twenty five thousand 242 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 2: dollars a year. Let's say, who are working in a 243 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: job that does not require a college degree. 244 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break, and then more on 245 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: how the elites sold out the working class. What I 246 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: love that you did about this book, and what I 247 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: really want to dig into is you talk to people, 248 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think part of the 249 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: problem with the media today is like, you know, even 250 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: just moving you know, I'm not from New York, but 251 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: I lived there for a little while before moving to Florida. 252 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: And even on like the vaccine issue is such a 253 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: radically different envite. You know, I didn't get the vaccine 254 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: the code that and like in New York it's like 255 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: you're evil, You're you're basically a terrorist at that point 256 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: for not to and then in Florida it's like no 257 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: one cares, right, So it's like even that is enlightening 258 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: and just you know, being in a totally different environment. 259 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: And so I think the problem is the media lives 260 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: in these bubbles in New York and d C. It's 261 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 1: not real world, it's not real life. So you went 262 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: around the country, you know, talking to people, learning hearing 263 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: from the uh tell us about you know that. Where 264 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: did you go, who did you meet and and what 265 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: did you learn from that? 266 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: Wow? I went all over. I went to I went 267 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: to California a number of times. I went to Phoenix, 268 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 2: I went to Denver, I went to Houston. I went 269 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: to Florida a bunch of times. I spent a lot 270 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: of time in Ohio. I also interviewed people from Alaska 271 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: in West Virginia. I also spent a lot of time, 272 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: you know, talking to people here in the New York area. 273 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 2: And what I found is, first of all, there's a 274 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: huge consensus in the working class about what policies they want. 275 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: And that's whether they're Democrats are Republicans. I mean, they 276 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: basically agree on the policy they want polarization is a 277 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: completely elite phenomenon. Working class people are so totally not 278 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: polarized because neither party really represents their interests and so 279 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: it would never occur to them to hate somebody who 280 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: had a different opinion on abortion, although they buy and 281 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: large agree on abortion as well. Most working class Americans 282 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 2: are extremely tolerant. That tolerance comes both from the nature 283 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: of this country, which is finally made good on the 284 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: promises of our founding, but also just from the precariousness 285 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: when you have a life that is beset by percarity, 286 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: where every mistake you make sends you off the path 287 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: into you know, real, real precariousness, and you don't know 288 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: where you're going to be, you know, sleeping the next night. 289 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: You just people like that are not judgmental at all. 290 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: They have extreme amounts of more important but one hundred 291 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: percent the case. That's one hundred percent the case. And 292 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: here's another thing that I found, the American dream where 293 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 2: it is still alive for working class Americans. It's much 294 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: more feasible in Red America than Blue America, simply because 295 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: of the cost of housing. So if we define the 296 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: American dream as you know, owning a home children being 297 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: you know, having slightly better opportunities than you do, having 298 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: access to good healthcare. And by the way, this is 299 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: how working class Americans define it, and a retirement in dignity. 300 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: That piece, the first piece, a home. Owning your own 301 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: home has become all but impossible for working class Americans 302 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: living in Blue America because even though the wages are 303 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: slightly higher, the cost of housing is just exponentially higher. 304 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just totally unaffordable. Whereas you could be 305 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: pretty poor in West Virginia and still own your own home. 306 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: And so from that point of view, there really is 307 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: more opportunity. I would say, if you're defining home ownership 308 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: as a key part of the American dream, which most 309 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: working class Americans do, do. 310 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: You think and talking to those people in you know, 311 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: Blue America, you know, working voters in Blue America, is 312 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: there an understanding that perhaps leftist policies are part of 313 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: the reason why they're in that state, like or not 314 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: obviously in that state, but more of the you know 315 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: why they're in that position, the financial position. 316 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, especially immigration, which to any working class 317 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: person is an economic concern. Right. Immigration is a proxy 318 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 2: for like the devaluation of working class jobs right, So 319 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: to them, immigration is an economic question. To the elites, 320 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: of course, it's the sort of cultural question, you know, oh, 321 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: we must welcome immigrants here or whatever. So that is 322 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: very obvious to them that the that the leftist policies 323 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: are screwing them over. I will say, you know, the 324 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: number one reason I think that there is not more 325 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: even more defection. There's a lot of defection of working 326 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: class people from Democrats Republicans. I think the reason there 327 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: isn't even more is because, you know, healthcare is extremely important, 328 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: and people don't feel that it is affordable or accessible, 329 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: and they never hear Republicans addressing this issue, but they 330 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: do hear Democrats addressing it. If the Republicans came up 331 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: with a good healthcare plan, just some way to relieve 332 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: some of the burden and anxiety, to make people feel 333 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: like they're not going to go bankrupt over their health 334 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 2: after they spent their lives working physical jobs to sustain 335 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: this society, they would be unstoppable, because of course they 336 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 2: have the immigration piece. 337 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean I think you know, Democrats pretty 338 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: much own today's healthcare state, you know, after Obamacare. In 339 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: talking to people, and then looking ahead at the twenty 340 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: twenty four election, did that shape sort of how you 341 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: think this election could go down? In those conversations, you know, 342 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: where do you think the folks you talk to are 343 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: going to end up on election day or heading into 344 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: election day? Because now we have male and balloting like 345 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: super early and all that stuff. 346 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 2: I spoke to a lot of Obama Obama Trump Trump 347 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 2: people who are definitely still Trump people. I did speak 348 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: to a number of people who really don't like Trump's 349 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: personality but are going to vote for him because I mean, 350 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: there was no one I spoke to who didn't feel 351 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 2: like they were better off in twenty eighteen financially from 352 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 2: a safety point of view in terms of the country. 353 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: The people that had ambivalent feelings about Trump, it was 354 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: because they felt that he was sort of giving the 355 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 2: working class a bad name by being such a good 356 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: proxy for what they were looking for. But in terms 357 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 2: of just policy, there was very little debate about which 358 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: president had put more money in their pockets, and it 359 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: was definitely Donald Trump. And so that's definitely impacted how 360 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 2: I think about the coming election. You never know how 361 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 2: things are going to go. You never know what people 362 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: are going to be thinking when they got into the 363 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: voting booth. But it's very hard for me to imagine 364 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: Trump losing if I'm just going based off the reporting 365 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 2: I did in my book. 366 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: You know, you reference you know, healthcare and immigration. If 367 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: you if you kind of had to pick the top 368 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: three issues that you've heard the most consistently from folks, uh, 369 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, how would you lay them out? 370 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: So Number one was the economy. I mean, groceries are 371 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: up eighteen percent. People living on a shoe string budget, 372 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: even people who are not poor. That is it's it's unforgivable. 373 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's unforgivable. It is plunder of the middle class. 374 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 2: And so that was definitely the top issue. Was inflation, 375 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: people having to make choices about how many nights a 376 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: week they could afford to feed their children chicken or 377 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: meat or you know, devastating stuff like that. Immigration was 378 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: a top concern, and you know, immigration is a proc 379 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: see for good jobs, jobs that pay a living wage, 380 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: a sense that if you work and work and work 381 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: your butt off, there is a sense that the country 382 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: is going to look out for you and give you 383 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: the modest fixings of a middle class life. I mean, 384 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 2: that's all they want is the most modest things that 385 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 2: you know, we and the elites totally take for granted. 386 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: And then the third thing I would say is feeling like, 387 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: you know, that they were going to be able to 388 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: have a dignified life if if they got sick, when 389 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: they got old, when they're you know, aching bones, could 390 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 2: no longer do the backbreaking work that they spent their 391 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: careers doing. And so I would say, you know, if 392 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 2: I would put it, you know, I would say economy, immigration, 393 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 2: and healthcare. 394 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: You know, I guess dig in a little bit. You know, 395 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: you had talked about, you know, because obviously there's a 396 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: lot of focus on you know, Michigan and uh, you know, 397 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: you look at the uncommitted vote in Michigan against Joe 398 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: Biden and particularly in dearborn Michigan again which she had 399 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: lost to you know, and you know, there's been a 400 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 1: lot of talk that he could potentially lose Michigan because 401 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: of his support for you know, home as basically, if 402 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: you just want to call it out what it is, 403 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: but you you had made the point, you don't know, 404 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: it's his push for electric vehicles, it's you know, the 405 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: auto workers in the state. How big of an issue. 406 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: Do you think the electric vehicle push is for you know, 407 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: working Americans? 408 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: Huge, absolutely huge. It just it's such a good example 409 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: of how people who live in blue bubbles where by 410 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 2: the way, seventy five percent of journalists live and you 411 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: know where where If everybody around you lives in an 412 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: urban setting and they only need their car to drive 413 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: twelve blocks to whole Foods, right of course you think 414 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: everybody wants in a little Chinese electric car, right, But 415 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: rural voters, I mean, what are they going to do 416 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 2: with an electric car? You know, they don't have an 417 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: hour in the middle of the day to sit there 418 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 2: while it, you know, fill up with electricity. Who's going 419 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: to pay for that hour of their time? And you 420 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: know they're driving much further they need their cars for work, 421 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 2: and you know, it's just such a perfect encapsulation of 422 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: the cluelessness of leftist elites about how like the rest 423 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: of the country is actually operating. That's from the consumer's 424 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: point of view, Lisa, But from the producer's point of view, 425 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: we know that it takes a third of the amount 426 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: of time on the line to produce an ev that 427 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: it does to produce a gas car, meaning that Obviously, 428 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 2: this is going to be a major hit to the 429 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: auto industry, which used to be like the pride and 430 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: joy of the United States. And now, of course China 431 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: is threatening to open a factory in Mexico so that 432 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 2: they can get around the tariffs on Chinese cars. This 433 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 2: is all stuff that is just totally lost on the Democrats, 434 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: who are catering to a college educated base and totally 435 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: obvious to working class people the way that it is 436 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: to Trump. So to me, I look at Michigan. I 437 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: don't see two hundred thousand, you know, Muslim Americans. I 438 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: see six hundred thousand auto workers who know what this 439 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: whole ev market scam is going to do to their 440 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: bottom line. Only four percent of people in America vote 441 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: on foreign policy. It's a really tiny percentage. And then 442 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 2: you have to keep in mind that Trump, I mean, 443 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: whatever you think of Joe Biden, if these people feel 444 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 2: like he's not pro Hamas enough, like Trump is much 445 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: more pro Israel than Biden ever was. So you know, 446 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 2: the idea that they're going to vote for the more 447 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 2: pro Israel candidate based on foreign policy I think is nonsense. 448 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: And in fact, a lot of the people who are 449 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: voting uncommitted are saying they're going to vote for Donald Trump. 450 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 2: So to me, this looks like there's working class Arabs 451 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: and they need an excuse to defect to Donald Trump 452 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: and they're using Gaza. I mean, I'm sure they care 453 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: about it deeply, which, by the way, is their god 454 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: given right as an American to vote on whatever they want. 455 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: But to me, it's that is a sort of media 456 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: fantasy that Biden is going to lose over something the 457 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: media cares about, which is the Middle East. It's nonsense. 458 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 2: I mean, the American working class is not going to 459 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 2: vote on the Middle East. 460 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: Quick break more with Batya. You said carelessness before. Do 461 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: you think it's carelessness from Joe Biden all these policies 462 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: or is it with intent? Because I mean it's hard 463 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: to imagine he doesn't understand the level of destruction that 464 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: this could wage against the auto industry. 465 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 2: It's a great question. I think it's very similar to immigration. Right. 466 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 2: You look at this and you just think, like, you know, 467 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 2: I'm sure we're all sitting here thinking the same thing 468 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: for four years. Why doesn't he just close the border? 469 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 2: It's so easy. Trump created with three executive actions, he 470 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 2: created the playbook that is completely effective, Like, why doesn't 471 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 2: he Biden just do it? I think there's a number 472 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 2: of reasons that the Democratic Party. You know, each party 473 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: has its sort of donor class. The Demo Scratic parties 474 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 2: donor class is very beholden to this sort of NGO 475 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: network of college educated people combined with billionaires, all of 476 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: whom have the same sort of vanity morals which always 477 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: end up coming at the expense of the working class. 478 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: But you know, the if these are your funders, these 479 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 2: are your donors, you don't have a lot of leeway 480 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: to say, actually, you know, we're going to care about 481 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,959 Speaker 2: the American working class instead of about the climate. Because 482 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: these people are obsessed with climate, just like they're obsessed 483 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: with the kind of open borders and a lawlessness and 484 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 2: the decarciral state and getting criminals out of prison. These 485 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: are the values you pick up at the university and 486 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: it is their religion. So for for Biden to say, actually, 487 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to go back to, you know, the roots 488 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party, it would be very very difficult 489 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 2: for him to do that, not because I think of 490 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: the left flank, but because of who the donor class 491 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: to the Democrats is. 492 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: You know, so the left tries to paint Donald Trump 493 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: is he is out of touch, she's the bills billionaire. 494 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: And sometimes those attacks, you know, work against you know, 495 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: Republicans from the left, although they make money off the 496 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: backs of us while they're in office. But anyways, Uh, 497 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: why do you think Donald Trump has been able to 498 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: resonate with working voters despite the fact that, you know, look, 499 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: he's a billionaire, which is great. I want to be 500 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: a billionaire. I want everyone else to be one too, 501 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, I want us all to be rich. But 502 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: why do you think he's been able to resonate with 503 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: so many people. 504 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what a gay nurse certified Nurses Aid 505 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 2: in Florida told me. She said he can't be bought. 506 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: And I heard that a lot. There's a lot of 507 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: skepticism about that from left wing elites. But I don't 508 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: know how you you look at, for example, the Republican 509 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 2: primary and not see that that's basically what happened. I mean, 510 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 2: the entire donor class turned on Trump to support Nikki 511 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: Haley and it didn't move the needle for her at all. 512 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 2: When Trump came into office, he took on both sides. 513 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 2: He took on both parties. He took on the orthodoxy. 514 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 2: There's basically a handshake agreement between left and right about 515 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 2: you know, free trade, for example, and he said, we're 516 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: not gonna have free trade. We're gonna have a trade 517 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: war with China. We're gonna have tariffs on steel and aluminum, 518 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 2: Like he just got it. He had this sort of 519 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 2: very intuitive sense that the entire seventy percent of the 520 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 2: country that is sort of in the reasonable middle had 521 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 2: been abandoned by both sides. And it's so funny because 522 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 2: there's so much distraction around Donald Trump the man, but 523 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: if you just look at his policies, Donald Trump is 524 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,239 Speaker 2: the consensus candidate that Joe Biden promised he was going 525 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 2: to be. I mean, he's a total centrist on everything. 526 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 2: He looks more like a kind of you know, mid 527 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 2: century Democrat than he does like a Republican. He believes in, 528 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: you know, protectionist economy, protectionist trade policies, policing the border 529 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: to protect working class people. He's courting union workers, he's 530 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: courting black voters. He believes in a fit fifteen week abortion, 531 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: it should be legal for fifteen weeks. Like this is 532 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: where seventy percent of Americans are at This used to 533 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: be where the Democratic Party was, and he sort of 534 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: realized that there was nobody in that reasonable center and 535 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 2: made a bee line for it. But it involved taking 536 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: on the really the orthodoxies and the elites on both sides, 537 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: and I think that really came through to the working class. 538 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you said I can't be bought, it took 539 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: me back to the gupe primaries heading into the twenty 540 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: sixteen election. Well one the only rosy O'Donnell, which is like, 541 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: still like the best line ever. And then also, and 542 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: I love Megan Kelly, so that's not a knock to her, 543 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: it's just was hilarious response. And then I can't remember 544 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: who we had donated to, but I think someone who's 545 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: bringing up like, oh, you've given money to Nancy Pelosi 546 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: or whatever, and he was like, oh, yeah, because she 547 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: can be bought. Like I think people are at home 548 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, right, that checks out. That makes sense. 549 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: All right, That's what it took me back to. 550 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean I think that there is really 551 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 2: you know, I understand why people are skeptical when you 552 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: say that about somebody, but it's obvious from the way 553 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 2: that he governed that he was not thinking about anybody 554 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: except what he wanted to see happen. He did. He's 555 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 2: up a little bit on immigration towards the end, and 556 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: there were some sort of people in the commentary of 557 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: class saying it's because Wall Street was sort of urging 558 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: him to. But in twenty twenty, Joe Biden got more 559 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 2: money from Wall Street than Donald Trump did. Wall Street 560 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 2: loves an open border because, of course it's great for 561 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: their bottom line, for the same reason that when you 562 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 2: turn on leftist liberal cable news, they're always talking about 563 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: how great the economy is. It's really good if you 564 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: have a stock portfolio. You know, it's really good if 565 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: you own property, because it's you know, the economy is 566 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: doing really well for that sort of top for the 567 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: elites basically, and that's thanks to all these policies that 568 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: Donald Trump was trying to undo. 569 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: Well, you also said they're not setting their best and 570 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: I think people are realizing that now as we have 571 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: potential terrorist gang members. I saw that there was there 572 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,479 Speaker 1: was like a Ninja's from Chile that are have burglary brings. 573 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: Now I was reading about Oakland County. I think we're freaking, 574 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: like what in the hell, like Russian Bobsters is reading 575 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: like it's like, why you know, it's insane that we're 576 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 1: letting these people into our country. Well before we go, 577 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: why do you think immigration specifically resonates so much with 578 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: working voters? 579 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy one, which was the high water 580 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: mark for working class wages, right after that they began 581 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: to stagnate and then basically just fall. In nineteen seventy one, 582 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: the share of the population that was foreign born was 583 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: four percent, and today it is fifteen percent. And this 584 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: really gets left out of the conversation. You know, I 585 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: don't have anything against immigrants personally. This is what working 586 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 2: class people would say to me. I don't have anything 587 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: against them personally. I understand people who want the American 588 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: dream for their children, but it's so obvious to the 589 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: working class that other people are getting the American dream 590 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: and they are not. And there seems to be so 591 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: much forbearance for these people and nothing for them. And 592 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: they know, they know that when you import fifteen million 593 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: people in four years and they are all going to 594 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: be working in certain industries, of course, it is obvious 595 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: that that is going to drive down the wages in 596 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: those industries. I mean, it's the most obvious supply and demand, 597 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: and so that really for them is a proxy for 598 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: the devaluation of their jobs and their hard work, even 599 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: though they're working harder than they ever have before. That, 600 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 2: I think is why it's so important to them, you know, 601 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: to the elite's immigration, and they pretend that immigration is 602 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: about morality, but it's not. It's really about economics and 603 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: bringing in these migrants. It puts money in the pockets 604 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 2: of the rich and it is simply wage theft from 605 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: the American working class and they know it. Well. 606 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: We're going to end on that because that was really 607 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: well well said. I think a super important point. Second Class, 608 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: How the Elites Betrayed America's working men and Women? Really 609 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Batya, a great book. I love this. I 610 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: think this is so important. I just really appreciate you 611 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: taking the time to come on the show. I hope 612 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: this book is such massive success. 613 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so so much for having me, Lisa, for 614 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: everything that you do. God bless you. 615 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: I was Batya Angarsargane with her new book, Second Class, 616 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: How the Elites Betrayed America's Working men and Women. Just 617 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: really interesting stuff. She's super nice, so smart. Always tune 618 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: in when I see her on TV, so appreciate her 619 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: for making the time every Monday and Thursday, but you 620 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: can listen throughout the week. I want to thank John Cassio, 621 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: my producer, for putting the show together. Until next time.