WEBVTT - Short: Theft of Shergar 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:17.000 Thinking Sideways a mystery short stories of things we simply 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.600 don't know the answers to Hey everybody, and welcome again 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.800 to the podcast. I am Steve, as always joined by 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.760 and Joe and this if we didn't say but well 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.040 we didn't say before thinking Wow, I don't even know 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.400 what show we're doing. This is Thinking Sideways the podcast. 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.040 You're just trying to talk really fast because it's a 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.680 short one. That's really what it is. Because for any 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.120 of our listeners, because because we're getting lots and lots 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.440 of new listeners who may not know what we've been 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.879 doing for a while. We always go into mysteries and 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.080 we like to have a good hour plus show, but 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.040 some stories just aren't that long. So sometimes there's ones 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.960 that we want to give you that well, they're gonna 0:00:59.960 --> 0:01:02.000 be a shorty, but we're just going to take him anyway, 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.440 is right. They're a little bonus episode. I call him shorts, 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.040 Joe calls him bonus. What do you want to call it? 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.760 Except I make the website post, so it's the Shorts. 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.800 Now on to our story. We are going to talk 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:23.360 about Sugar, who was born Ireland in eight and theoretically 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:31.319 died in nineteen three. Possibly, Well that's the unsolved mystery 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.920 parties because I mentioned Sugar as a horse, right, No, 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:40.880 everybody knows that I didn't know that horse, of course. Sorry. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.640 It was actually a well known horse, but I've never 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.840 heard him before. Actually it's because we live in the States. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.840 If you were in Britain or Ireland, you knew Sugar. 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.240 It was like the little Sebastion of the United Kingdom. 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.280 I would actually say the Sea Biscuit, because this horse 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.840 was huge, book over the racing scene, and everybody knew 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:10.440 the horse's name. It was yeah, alright, okay, well let's uh, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.880 let's for all our folks who don't know who Sugar is. 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:21.480 Sugar was the champion race horse of Night one. It 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:26.359 was a very recognizable bay colt. He had a very 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.840 unique white blaze on his face, and a blaze is 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:31.720 if you see a horse that's got the kind of 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:35.760 a white stripe from their forehead to their muzzle, that's 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.480 a blaze, very unique shape to It had four white socks, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.840 and I really I kind of find this endearing. Had 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:48.560 this weird habit when racing of lolling his tongue out 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.320 of the side of his mouth, kind of like a 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:56.799 dog out the window. Yeah, it's very cute. Well, in one, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:03.520 Sugar famously one the Dirt Steaks, which is a very 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:09.200 very major race in England, and you wanted by ten lengths, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.360 which is quite a huge lead. It is a very 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:17.440 huge lead for our listeners who don't watch horse racing. Me. Okay, 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:23.280 all length means the distance of a horse. So you've 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.120 got horse one and you've got horse too, and if 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.920 you can fit a horse between them, that is considered 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.240 one length. Does that make sense? Yeah? The question I 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.880 have is if horse A is in the lead and 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.760 horse bee is right behind him, so horse bees nose 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.840 is right about even with horse's. But there is that 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:49.320 doesn't that mean that the then you get the decimals 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.920 of a length. It's kind of like you know, a millimeter, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:57.120 You get into decimals of millimeter right then you you 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.000 break it down. But lengths are if you a horses 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.440 x long, that is one x between horse one and 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.480 horse two. Very it's as simple as that. Okay, Okay, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.360 Sugar did it in ten lengths, so that is ten horses, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.520 which is a massive, massive lead depending on his competition. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.760 But I mean, obviously they would have been fairly evenly matched. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.640 It was a pretty even match. I mean, let's be honest. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.280 He was named European Horse of the Year, which they 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.640 just don't give away. So that tells you right there 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.200 how good he was. He was a three year old horse. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:38.960 He was at the end of his racing career. His 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.040 horses race from one to three and then they're done. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.600 So at that point they said, well, we're going to 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.919 turn him into a stud, and Sugar was taken to 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.960 bellam and He Stud, which is a stud farm in 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:57.640 County Kildare, Ireland. He stayed there quite happily, siring offspring 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.720 for the next year. Lucky horse, he lucky horse. There's 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.240 a lot of stud jokes I want to make here, 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.320 but I'm not gonna make any of them. I'm just 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:09.760 gonna give one basic term, which is to mate with 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.520 a horror a male. To mate with a female is 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:22.200 called covering. He covered thirty four mayors that year, with 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.080 a pretty hefty fee going for every one of those 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.120 things too. People were paying up to eighty thousand pounds 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.520 per curling per coupling, thank you. I was trying to 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.320 figure out how to say the sad pounds per try 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.880 per try Okay, Well, here's the thing. He went that 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:48.520 that's eighty thousand pounds in two money. That's equivalent of 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:54.599 four hundred eighties six thousand pounds today or three hundred 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.280 and seventy five thousand U S. Dollars today. That's an 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.400 incredible bull amount of money. So that he was making 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:08.040 his owners just money hand over fist. Now, one bit 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.360 of information that I do want to get into before 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.960 we get into the mystery surrounding him, is how his 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:21.720 ownership was divvied up. Shargar was Sugar was owned by 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:29.640 Prince kareem Aga con He after that season, decided that 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.400 he would sell off shares. He wouldn't need to sell 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.719 the horse entirely. He just sell shares of the horse 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:37.919 for a lot of money. For a lot of money. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:43.080 He sold thirty four shares. He kept six for himself. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:45.800 I don't know how this is, so I don't know 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.680 if that means that he sold twenty eight shares so 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.840 there's a total of thirty or thirty four, or if 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.160 that means that he sold thirty four shares plus his 0:06:55.279 --> 0:07:01.200 sixth equal forties you would think. But he was selling 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.240 the shares for a quarter of a million pound at 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:11.560 the time, which is a that's that's that's almost ten 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.480 million pounds that he sold that horse for. That's a 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.960 huge amount of money. So again he is just breaking 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.960 in cash. And I'm assuming though that it probably was 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.920 a good investment because I'm assuming that he would be 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.520 he would be, you know, trying to impregnant lots and 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.440 lots of mayors for years to come, and so I'm 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:36.440 assuming they'd make up, would have a stead at effective stud, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:41.160 will have a stud career of anywhere from five to 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:46.720 fifteen years. That's worth investing two fifty thousand in when 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.720 you know you're going to get all that money back 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.920 in two seasons. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's a great investment. Well, 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.400 here's what happens with our racehorse. It's an eight thirty 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:03.520 at night on the eighth of fed you're Jim Fitzgerald. 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:09.280 He is the head groom of Bellaminny Stud. He opens 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.520 the door and he finds three men in bla clavas, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.920 which is a scheme mask at the door. They've got 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.120 guns on him and they say they want him to 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:24.120 take him to the horse. He goes ahead. He does it. Specifically, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.160 he takes him right to share gar because that's what 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:30.080 they say. They want the fans of sugar. H No, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.800 this this was not a fan situation. No, I know 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.200 for sure it was not. Because they immediately said, we're 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.920 taking this horse and we want two million pounds to 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:45.120 get him back. So they were kidnapping. Horse napping. Yeah, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.040 it would be horse napping. You're right, what idiot wrote 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:55.120 kidnapping when uh, when Fitzgerald got to the stables, there 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.960 were another five men in masks there, so we've got 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.600 a total of eight men with guns. They load the 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.560 horse up. They put Fitzgerald in another car, and they 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:10.520 were prepared by the way. They they had a horse trailer. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.440 They had a trailer. They put him in a trailer. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:13.760 Wasn't like they put him in the back of a 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.600 hatchback or something. They put him in a horse trailer 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.720 and they took off. But they put Fitzgerald in a 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:25.440 separate car drove for what the accounts say a few miles, 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.200 three four miles, I don't know, before they finally stopped, 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.199 told him to get out of the car and not 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.960 to look behind him because they would be there and 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.440 they would shoot him, and he had to just walk 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.640 until he got to the next town, which he did, because, well, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.440 if a guy with a gun says go that way 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.920 and don't look back, I'm going to do that. It's 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.800 simple logic. When Fitzgerald got back home, because he got 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.439 to the next town, in the next town and then 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.280 got it right home, he made the appropriate phone calls 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.800 first to his chain of command, which then lit off 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:02.440 us series of phone calls up the chain of command 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:06.600 for everybody involved. The weird thing is, though the cops 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.240 didn't get called till four o'clock in the morning. Yeah, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.280 it seems kind of silly. I mean, why not The 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.120 first call I would have made was to the freaking cops. Yeah, 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.480 but that didn't happen. I don't know why. Maybe if 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.720 you're rich, you employ your own investigative services first. Well, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.160 and if you have twenty plus people involved in that 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.120 ownership situation, I imagine that gets even messier. So it's 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.400 not like I can say I own this horse. I 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.439 know this guy, he'll look into it. You can if 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:40.520 you're the major stakeholder. Well no, no, Agacon was the 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.679 major stakeholder. I think he had he had six shares, Yeah, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.960 but only six out of forty. So if nobody but 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:50.480 nobody else had more shares than him. Yeah, so to 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.880 shareholder had four shares, which again was a million pounds, 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.120 so go figure. Nobody else had more shares than he did. Anyway, 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.240 so they called the police up, Yeah, they call the police. Uh. 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.760 The thing was, of course, Sargar was very popular with 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.480 the public because he was a local horse. He had 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.320 won this giant race and everybody knew about it, so 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:16.200 the police it's a very public investigation. The police are 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.680 trying to do everything possible to cross their teas and 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.640 got their eyes. They've got to know what's going on. 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:26.560 They're trying to turn the area upside down to find 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:30.440 the horse. But unfortunately the area also turned to a 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.240 media circus, so we've got tons and tons of reporters 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:38.480 with cameras and microphones running around. So it did turn 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.719 into an absolute zoo, no pun intended. And then the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.360 cops kind of dropped the ball in the whole thing, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.400 although they did h and there's some issues with the 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.240 the investigation that we'll talk about here briefly once we 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.480 get into the theory section or just before that. But 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.679 the thing is, what was weird is is, of course 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.319 i'd said that you know, all those shares had been sold, 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.840 so now shared oars owned by the syndicate. Well, the 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.720 syndicate couldn't obviously negotiate for his ransom because it's so 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:16.480 many people got an agreement, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, somehow 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.000 three journalists who were involved in the horse racing scene 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:27.200 were selected to be their point contact negotiators, which are 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.839 selected by the kidnappers or by the syndicate. I don't 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.000 have an answer to that. I could never figure out. 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.360 I think it was the syndicate, but I don't know 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.199 for sure because it's just kind of it's a little 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.400 ephemeral in the way that it's written that I just 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.880 I'm not positive. But these three journalists are selected. They 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.160 are spirited away to the countryside. They're locked up into 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.079 a building with the cops. So the cops are recording 0:12:55.120 --> 0:13:01.120 all the conversations like it's a very major deal, but 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.400 of course they keep I think it goes on for 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.240 three days, if I remember correctly, they're having these phone 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:12.600 calls negotiating for money. Negotiations are going nowhere. On the 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.600 fourth day, the negotiators that the journalists, they get a 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.280 phone call out of the blue, like this is a 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.560 weird phone call that just says, Sharkar has had an 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.600 accident and he's dead, and they hang up and they 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.880 never make contact again. That seems rather rude. YEA, by 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.920 the way, I took your horse, your hamster, I was 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.880 house sitting. I mean that's what That's what it equivalates 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.480 to me. It's really weird. But but to this day, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:48.840 nobody knows a if he truly is dead or alive. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.040 Because horses live to be can live to be years old, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.960 So technically he could still be alive today, the very 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.480 aged horse, he wouldn't be studying anything he was in 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.240 I guess it could be he technically could still be alive. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.160 There are some insanely old horses. But we also don't 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:16.920 know who took him, which is where things start going 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.560 kind of. There are some strong suspects. There are some 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:26.360 strong suspects. As a question, did he actually successfully sire horses? 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.480 He did? He did. He covered thirty four mayors that 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.240 first season. One of the mayors that he covered u 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.560 birth of foal who eventually became a champion racehorse of 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.280 his own. So he was successful and only one or successful, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.000 and he successfully sired offspring in more than one mayor. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.160 It's just one of those one of those instances created 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.080 a true champion force. That's my theory out the window 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.200 then cinema. Okay, yeah, no, he he definitely, he definitely 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.560 had what it took. I see it. I think I 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.920 see where you're going. Somebody stole them just so they could, like, 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:06.400 you know, the fact he wasn't that great. Part of 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.000 the syndicate was like, well he's not actually making babies, 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.880 so we'll just you know, pretend like he got stolen. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.920 Should like if you shooting blanks the whole time, you know, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.840 he he did. He definitely created a lineage. Yeah. But 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.440 also they not all of the not not all the 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.080 members of the syndicate had total full insurance on him. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:34.960 Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. Um, the insurance thing is huge, 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.920 and let's go ahead and talk about that now. We'll 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.240 talk a little bit more about the syndicate after this. 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.480 But do you want to talk about the insurance issue? Well, yeah, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.560 I think that I'm trying to think of what it 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.200 is now. And in other words, that some of them 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.200 were covered for say loss or death. Yeah, but the 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.600 since the since the horse disappeared and they couldn't prove 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.280 the horse was dead, the insurance companies wouldn't pay, and 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.960 so you know, the caveat to that is, well, I'm 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.360 not going to continue to pay for the policy on 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.760 a horse that I believe is dead. So then they 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.359 stopped paying for the policy. In therefore the policy expired. 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.160 So once you reach that expected lifespan of the horse, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.080 you would think that they would eventually have to pay out. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.840 But all these people were like, do you know how 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:24.360 expensive that freaking insurances? It's not worth continuing to pay 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.440 for it. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, that's that's why I 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.840 think that the syndicate wouldn't do away with wouldn't do 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.600 it with Sugar, because you know, if there'd been a 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.560 plan to do that, then everybody would have gotten all 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.120 gotten their insurance all beefed up, they would have gotten 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.760 that kind of insurance. Well, and yeah, Aga Khan would 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.600 have would have just rushed right forward, and I'm sure 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.400 there would have been you know, he would have been 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.200 the first one at the pay line. But here's the 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:52.320 other thing about the syndicate is they actually had they 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:57.400 negotiated with the ransomers, but they never actually intended to 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.000 come to an agreement and pay Do you know why, Yeah, Well, 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.439 it's the same reason we have no negotiations with terrorists now. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.800 It's because because if you pay a ransom or then 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.120 they're just going to get more the same yep, which 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:16.800 meant that every race horse in the UK, Ireland, Europe, 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.639 that whole area, they were all suddenly at threat to 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.280 be stolen and ransomed off. And I guess I assume 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.560 that if you own steak in one horse, you probably 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:34.280 own a steak in a couple of horses. Prince he 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:39.600 he loves racing horses, he loves them. He didn't just 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.639 own this one horse. He owns lots of horses. So 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.520 let's just yeah, somebody just says, you know what, I'm 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.119 just gonna pick on that guy's horses. That's a bit 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.160 huge pool of horses just to go after. So yeah, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.880 of course they're not gonna pay. It's a terrible thing. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.080 But of course they're not gonna pay. You can't blame them. Besides, what, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.120 you know that you don't have any guarantee you're gonna 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.200 get your horse back any way. That's and that's that's 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:06.399 the worst part. You will not necessarily get your property back. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.520 That all having been said, because you know this is 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.800 supposed to be a short and yet we can't shut up. 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.040 We're going to go into the theories. Let us do that. 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:21.040 Our first theory is that the culprit. All the theories, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.600 by the way, they're all who stole the horse. So 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.160 the first theory is that he was stolen or kidnapped 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:34.680 by the IRA. The IRA has been fingered for this 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:40.879 by just about everybody out there, including the syndicate that 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.440 owned Shared are He. They they came out and made 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.000 a press release saying they were sure that the IRA 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.679 was responsible for it, and it's there's a little bit 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.480 of evidence for this. There is because it kind of 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.000 does seem like they they were super active at the time. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.480 They were trying. They were always trying to figure out 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:06.120 ways to to raise money to buy guns and munitions. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.720 And if you think about it, a two million pound 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:15.520 bonus check goes a long way in bullets dynamite. Yeah, 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.359 it would. They also would have the connections to find 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.199 those sleepy little farms out in the middle of nowhere 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:23.760 where you could with a barn that you could just 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.960 stash a horse. I had lots of sympathizers, lots of sympathizers, 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.960 but one thing that really kind of keyed people into 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.800 think that the IRA was responsible was what happened in 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:39.160 the negotiations because they were all done by phone, and 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.360 none of the all but one, I should say, all 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.240 but one of the phone calls, which there were quite 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.600 a few, lasted less than nine seconds. Seconds was the 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.359 time that was required to trace a phone call. Your 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:58.360 common dumb criminal is probably not likely to know that. 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:03.840 And organized group that is subversive or you know, working 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.960 against the law, is going to be very aware of that. 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.040 But in night, not at this time, Not at this 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.880 time was that as known. I mean, we see all 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.280 this all the time. But I remember in the eighties 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.040 it was the dukes of hazards and stuff. It wasn't 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.399 I gotta stay off the phone for this x amount 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.080 of time to get traced. I mean that wasn't doesn't 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.640 take him ninety seconds anymore in real life, So not 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.760 anymore according to uh so what is uh it's not 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.320 see us. There's some other show it's it takes forty 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.600 seven seconds or something stupid. But they knew this and 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.160 they would not stay on the phone any longer than that, okay, fair. 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.080 And then also there was there was some IRA, a 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:53.400 guy that wrote a book right, Sean O'Callahan, Yeah, Okallahan, 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.119 he was. He was the i RA, a double agent. 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.080 I don't know why he became a double agent, but 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.040 long story short is that he ended up writing a 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.560 book about his time in the IRA, and one of 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:11.480 his chapters is about Shargar. According to his book, he says, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.720 when he realized that the IRA was not going to 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:17.840 get paid, in other words, they were getting jerked around, 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.600 they had to figure out what to do with his horse, 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.720 and their first and their first idea was well, let's 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:29.359 just let him go, except because the countryside was such 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.159 a media circus and there were people everywhere looking for 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.960 the horse, they just couldn't turn him loose on a 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.360 road because they're they're safe houses were near that, They're 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:46.000 they're sympathizers were near there. So what ends up happening 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:52.080 is some genius decides that what we should do is 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:53.879 to help with it, we should just kill the horse. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:00.000 And according to a Callahan, that ends up what happened. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.520 And I'm not gonna I'm gonna spare you the gruesome details, 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:04.760 but I'm just gonna say the two men with machine 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:10.120 guns go into a stall and then later on, no 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:16.440 horse walks out what they did with Yeah, it's it's 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.840 it's despicable. But what happened to share body after that, 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.080 we don't know. I mean, it's a lot of that's 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.040 a lot of material to dispose of. Yeah, I know. 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:29.520 I've heard that there are a lot of large bogs 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.480 are in that area, so that seems to be the prevalence. 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.840 Thinking as he got pushed into a bog. I can't 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.560 imagine though, that all of him got pushed into the 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:42.920 same spot in the bog, because horses are fifteen hundred 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.040 pound animals and that's a lot of animal. Yeah. I 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.640 didn't want to think about that either. It's I don't either, 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.439 But I'm saying that he probably got just posited in 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:57.199 several locations if this theory is correct. Um, But you 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.439 know what, let's let's move on to something that is 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:05.240 weird but much happier, which is General Gaddafi. Do you 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.720 mean Colonel Kadafi? Well, is it colonel or general? I've 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:11.199 seen him called bolls uh No, I don't think he 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.560 ever raised his rank beyond colonel. Interesting, and Internet called 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.320 him general. That's why I was asking. An interesting fact 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:20.879 about Kadafi is that his childhood hero was was Colonel 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:25.840 gabaldil Nasser of Egypt, and he really deeply admired him 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.720 and he modeled so when when he staged this coup 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:30.919 along with his fellow officers, I believe he was a 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.280 captain in the Libyan Air Force, and so when he 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.199 became in charge, he immediately bumped his rank to colonel 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:41.960 because that was that was Bill Nassa's rank, and that 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:43.520 any as far as I know, he kept it at 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.000 colonel the rest of his life, well, as long as 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.680 he had a military title. That is. Okay, Well, all 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:50.919 I know is I've seen him called General Goffey. But 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:54.640 let's let's explain what I've actually promoted himself. Let's explain here. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:58.240 If you don't know who good off he is, which 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:01.120 some people don't, was well was Oh yeah, that's right, 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.800 it was. It was. He was as Joe talked about, 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.159 he had a coup, he then became the literal leader 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:14.520 in Libya. He also he had a thing for race horses. 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:16.960 You know, I loved race horses, you know, I mean 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.520 that kind of stuff is really popular in the Middle East. 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:23.800 It is. Horse racing is a big thing. A lot 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.359 of Arabs are crazy about horses. Well, not at all unusual. Yeah, no, 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.199 it's not at all. But according to this theory, what 0:24:30.440 --> 0:24:33.800 happens is he brokers a deal. This kind of ties 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.760 in with the last one. He brokers a deal with 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:40.520 the IRA, says that horse is awesome and I want 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:46.159 that horse. The IRA then goes in and steals the 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:50.240 horse for him in exchange for either a money or 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:52.720 be munitions. I'm sure that he would have had a 0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:56.080 cool hardware to give him. You would have had hardware. Now, 0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:58.879 how they get that horse out of the country, I 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:00.840 don't know, but have to put him on a ship. 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:02.360 You're not going to put him on a plane, right, 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.200 you can, but probably not. But here's the thing. Also, 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:09.760 what what is it that they call it? They the 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:14.320 early eighties were called I think they call them the 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:18.199 tough Time or the rough time where things were not 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:22.439