1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways a mystery short stories of things we simply 2 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: don't know the answers to Hey everybody, and welcome again 3 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I am Steve, as always joined by 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: and Joe and this if we didn't say but well 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: we didn't say before thinking Wow, I don't even know 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: what show we're doing. This is Thinking Sideways the podcast. 7 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: You're just trying to talk really fast because it's a 8 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: short one. That's really what it is. Because for any 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: of our listeners, because because we're getting lots and lots 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: of new listeners who may not know what we've been 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: doing for a while. We always go into mysteries and 12 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: we like to have a good hour plus show, but 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: some stories just aren't that long. So sometimes there's ones 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: that we want to give you that well, they're gonna 15 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: be a shorty, but we're just going to take him anyway, 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: is right. They're a little bonus episode. I call him shorts, 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: Joe calls him bonus. What do you want to call it? 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: Except I make the website post, so it's the Shorts. 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Now on to our story. We are going to talk 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: about Sugar, who was born Ireland in eight and theoretically 21 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: died in nineteen three. Possibly, Well that's the unsolved mystery 22 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: parties because I mentioned Sugar as a horse, right, No, 23 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: everybody knows that I didn't know that horse, of course. Sorry. 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: It was actually a well known horse, but I've never 25 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: heard him before. Actually it's because we live in the States. 26 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: If you were in Britain or Ireland, you knew Sugar. 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: It was like the little Sebastion of the United Kingdom. 28 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: I would actually say the Sea Biscuit, because this horse 29 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: was huge, book over the racing scene, and everybody knew 30 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: the horse's name. It was yeah, alright, okay, well let's uh, 31 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: let's for all our folks who don't know who Sugar is. 32 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: Sugar was the champion race horse of Night one. It 33 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: was a very recognizable bay colt. He had a very 34 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: unique white blaze on his face, and a blaze is 35 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: if you see a horse that's got the kind of 36 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: a white stripe from their forehead to their muzzle, that's 37 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: a blaze, very unique shape to It had four white socks, 38 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: and I really I kind of find this endearing. Had 39 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: this weird habit when racing of lolling his tongue out 40 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: of the side of his mouth, kind of like a 41 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: dog out the window. Yeah, it's very cute. Well, in one, 42 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: Sugar famously one the Dirt Steaks, which is a very 43 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: very major race in England, and you wanted by ten lengths, 44 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: which is quite a huge lead. It is a very 45 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: huge lead for our listeners who don't watch horse racing. Me. Okay, 46 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: all length means the distance of a horse. So you've 47 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: got horse one and you've got horse too, and if 48 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: you can fit a horse between them, that is considered 49 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: one length. Does that make sense? Yeah? The question I 50 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: have is if horse A is in the lead and 51 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: horse bee is right behind him, so horse bees nose 52 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: is right about even with horse's. But there is that 53 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: doesn't that mean that the then you get the decimals 54 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: of a length. It's kind of like you know, a millimeter, 55 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: You get into decimals of millimeter right then you you 56 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: break it down. But lengths are if you a horses 57 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: x long, that is one x between horse one and 58 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: horse two. Very it's as simple as that. Okay, Okay, 59 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: Sugar did it in ten lengths, so that is ten horses, 60 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: which is a massive, massive lead depending on his competition. 61 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: But I mean, obviously they would have been fairly evenly matched. 62 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: It was a pretty even match. I mean, let's be honest. 63 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: He was named European Horse of the Year, which they 64 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: just don't give away. So that tells you right there 65 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: how good he was. He was a three year old horse. 66 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: He was at the end of his racing career. His 67 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: horses race from one to three and then they're done. 68 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: So at that point they said, well, we're going to 69 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: turn him into a stud, and Sugar was taken to 70 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: bellam and He Stud, which is a stud farm in 71 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: County Kildare, Ireland. He stayed there quite happily, siring offspring 72 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: for the next year. Lucky horse, he lucky horse. There's 73 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: a lot of stud jokes I want to make here, 74 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna make any of them. I'm just 75 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: gonna give one basic term, which is to mate with 76 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: a horror a male. To mate with a female is 77 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: called covering. He covered thirty four mayors that year, with 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: a pretty hefty fee going for every one of those 79 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: things too. People were paying up to eighty thousand pounds 80 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: per curling per coupling, thank you. I was trying to 81 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: figure out how to say the sad pounds per try 82 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: per try Okay, Well, here's the thing. He went that 83 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: that's eighty thousand pounds in two money. That's equivalent of 84 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: four hundred eighties six thousand pounds today or three hundred 85 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: and seventy five thousand U S. Dollars today. That's an 86 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: incredible bull amount of money. So that he was making 87 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: his owners just money hand over fist. Now, one bit 88 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: of information that I do want to get into before 89 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: we get into the mystery surrounding him, is how his 90 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: ownership was divvied up. Shargar was Sugar was owned by 91 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: Prince kareem Aga con He after that season, decided that 92 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: he would sell off shares. He wouldn't need to sell 93 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: the horse entirely. He just sell shares of the horse 94 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: for a lot of money. For a lot of money. 95 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: He sold thirty four shares. He kept six for himself. 96 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: I don't know how this is, so I don't know 97 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: if that means that he sold twenty eight shares so 98 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: there's a total of thirty or thirty four, or if 99 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: that means that he sold thirty four shares plus his 100 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: sixth equal forties you would think. But he was selling 101 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: the shares for a quarter of a million pound at 102 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: the time, which is a that's that's that's almost ten 103 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: million pounds that he sold that horse for. That's a 104 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: huge amount of money. So again he is just breaking 105 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: in cash. And I'm assuming though that it probably was 106 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: a good investment because I'm assuming that he would be 107 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: he would be, you know, trying to impregnant lots and 108 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: lots of mayors for years to come, and so I'm 109 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: assuming they'd make up, would have a stead at effective stud, 110 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: will have a stud career of anywhere from five to 111 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: fifteen years. That's worth investing two fifty thousand in when 112 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: you know you're going to get all that money back 113 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: in two seasons. Yeah, Yeah, it's it's a great investment. Well, 114 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: here's what happens with our racehorse. It's an eight thirty 115 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: at night on the eighth of fed you're Jim Fitzgerald. 116 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: He is the head groom of Bellaminny Stud. He opens 117 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: the door and he finds three men in bla clavas, 118 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: which is a scheme mask at the door. They've got 119 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: guns on him and they say they want him to 120 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: take him to the horse. He goes ahead. He does it. Specifically, 121 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: he takes him right to share gar because that's what 122 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: they say. They want the fans of sugar. H No, 123 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: this this was not a fan situation. No, I know 124 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: for sure it was not. Because they immediately said, we're 125 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: taking this horse and we want two million pounds to 126 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: get him back. So they were kidnapping. Horse napping. Yeah, 127 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: it would be horse napping. You're right, what idiot wrote 128 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: kidnapping when uh, when Fitzgerald got to the stables, there 129 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: were another five men in masks there, so we've got 130 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: a total of eight men with guns. They load the 131 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: horse up. They put Fitzgerald in another car, and they 132 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: were prepared by the way. They they had a horse trailer. 133 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: They had a trailer. They put him in a trailer. 134 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: Wasn't like they put him in the back of a 135 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: hatchback or something. They put him in a horse trailer 136 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: and they took off. But they put Fitzgerald in a 137 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: separate car drove for what the accounts say a few miles, 138 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: three four miles, I don't know, before they finally stopped, 139 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: told him to get out of the car and not 140 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: to look behind him because they would be there and 141 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: they would shoot him, and he had to just walk 142 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: until he got to the next town, which he did, because, well, 143 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: if a guy with a gun says go that way 144 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: and don't look back, I'm going to do that. It's 145 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: simple logic. When Fitzgerald got back home, because he got 146 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: to the next town, in the next town and then 147 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: got it right home, he made the appropriate phone calls 148 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: first to his chain of command, which then lit off 149 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: us series of phone calls up the chain of command 150 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: for everybody involved. The weird thing is, though the cops 151 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: didn't get called till four o'clock in the morning. Yeah, 152 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: it seems kind of silly. I mean, why not The 153 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: first call I would have made was to the freaking cops. Yeah, 154 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: but that didn't happen. I don't know why. Maybe if 155 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: you're rich, you employ your own investigative services first. Well, 156 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: and if you have twenty plus people involved in that 157 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: ownership situation, I imagine that gets even messier. So it's 158 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: not like I can say I own this horse. I 159 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: know this guy, he'll look into it. You can if 160 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: you're the major stakeholder. Well no, no, Agacon was the 161 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: major stakeholder. I think he had he had six shares, Yeah, 162 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: but only six out of forty. So if nobody but 163 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: nobody else had more shares than him. Yeah, so to 164 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: shareholder had four shares, which again was a million pounds, 165 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: so go figure. Nobody else had more shares than he did. Anyway, 166 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: so they called the police up, Yeah, they call the police. Uh. 167 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: The thing was, of course, Sargar was very popular with 168 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: the public because he was a local horse. He had 169 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: won this giant race and everybody knew about it, so 170 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: the police it's a very public investigation. The police are 171 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: trying to do everything possible to cross their teas and 172 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: got their eyes. They've got to know what's going on. 173 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: They're trying to turn the area upside down to find 174 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: the horse. But unfortunately the area also turned to a 175 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: media circus, so we've got tons and tons of reporters 176 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: with cameras and microphones running around. So it did turn 177 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: into an absolute zoo, no pun intended. And then the 178 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: cops kind of dropped the ball in the whole thing, 179 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: although they did h and there's some issues with the 180 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: the investigation that we'll talk about here briefly once we 181 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: get into the theory section or just before that. But 182 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: the thing is, what was weird is is, of course 183 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 1: i'd said that you know, all those shares had been sold, 184 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: so now shared oars owned by the syndicate. Well, the 185 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: syndicate couldn't obviously negotiate for his ransom because it's so 186 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: many people got an agreement, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, somehow 187 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: three journalists who were involved in the horse racing scene 188 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: were selected to be their point contact negotiators, which are 189 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: selected by the kidnappers or by the syndicate. I don't 190 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: have an answer to that. I could never figure out. 191 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: I think it was the syndicate, but I don't know 192 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: for sure because it's just kind of it's a little 193 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: ephemeral in the way that it's written that I just 194 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: I'm not positive. But these three journalists are selected. They 195 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: are spirited away to the countryside. They're locked up into 196 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: a building with the cops. So the cops are recording 197 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: all the conversations like it's a very major deal, but 198 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: of course they keep I think it goes on for 199 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: three days, if I remember correctly, they're having these phone 200 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: calls negotiating for money. Negotiations are going nowhere. On the 201 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: fourth day, the negotiators that the journalists, they get a 202 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: phone call out of the blue, like this is a 203 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: weird phone call that just says, Sharkar has had an 204 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: accident and he's dead, and they hang up and they 205 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: never make contact again. That seems rather rude. YEA, by 206 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: the way, I took your horse, your hamster, I was 207 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: house sitting. I mean that's what That's what it equivalates 208 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: to me. It's really weird. But but to this day, 209 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: nobody knows a if he truly is dead or alive. 210 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: Because horses live to be can live to be years old, 211 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: So technically he could still be alive today, the very 212 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: aged horse, he wouldn't be studying anything he was in 213 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: I guess it could be he technically could still be alive. 214 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: There are some insanely old horses. But we also don't 215 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: know who took him, which is where things start going 216 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of. There are some strong suspects. There are some 217 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: strong suspects. As a question, did he actually successfully sire horses? 218 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: He did? He did. He covered thirty four mayors that 219 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: first season. One of the mayors that he covered u 220 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: birth of foal who eventually became a champion racehorse of 221 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: his own. So he was successful and only one or successful, 222 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: and he successfully sired offspring in more than one mayor. 223 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: It's just one of those one of those instances created 224 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: a true champion force. That's my theory out the window 225 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: then cinema. Okay, yeah, no, he he definitely, he definitely 226 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: had what it took. I see it. I think I 227 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: see where you're going. Somebody stole them just so they could, like, 228 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, the fact he wasn't that great. Part of 229 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: the syndicate was like, well he's not actually making babies, 230 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: so we'll just you know, pretend like he got stolen. 231 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: Should like if you shooting blanks the whole time, you know, 232 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: he he did. He definitely created a lineage. Yeah. But 233 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: also they not all of the not not all the 234 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: members of the syndicate had total full insurance on him. 235 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. Um, the insurance thing is huge, 236 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: and let's go ahead and talk about that now. We'll 237 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the syndicate after this. 238 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: But do you want to talk about the insurance issue? Well, yeah, 239 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: I think that I'm trying to think of what it 240 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: is now. And in other words, that some of them 241 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: were covered for say loss or death. Yeah, but the 242 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: since the since the horse disappeared and they couldn't prove 243 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: the horse was dead, the insurance companies wouldn't pay, and 244 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: so you know, the caveat to that is, well, I'm 245 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: not going to continue to pay for the policy on 246 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: a horse that I believe is dead. So then they 247 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,359 Speaker 1: stopped paying for the policy. In therefore the policy expired. 248 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: So once you reach that expected lifespan of the horse, 249 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: you would think that they would eventually have to pay out. 250 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: But all these people were like, do you know how 251 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: expensive that freaking insurances? It's not worth continuing to pay 252 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: for it. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, that's that's why I 253 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: think that the syndicate wouldn't do away with wouldn't do 254 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: it with Sugar, because you know, if there'd been a 255 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: plan to do that, then everybody would have gotten all 256 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: gotten their insurance all beefed up, they would have gotten 257 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: that kind of insurance. Well, and yeah, Aga Khan would 258 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: have would have just rushed right forward, and I'm sure 259 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: there would have been you know, he would have been 260 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: the first one at the pay line. But here's the 261 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: other thing about the syndicate is they actually had they 262 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: negotiated with the ransomers, but they never actually intended to 263 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: come to an agreement and pay Do you know why, Yeah, Well, 264 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: it's the same reason we have no negotiations with terrorists now. 265 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: It's because because if you pay a ransom or then 266 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: they're just going to get more the same yep, which 267 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: meant that every race horse in the UK, Ireland, Europe, 268 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: that whole area, they were all suddenly at threat to 269 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: be stolen and ransomed off. And I guess I assume 270 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: that if you own steak in one horse, you probably 271 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: own a steak in a couple of horses. Prince he 272 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: he loves racing horses, he loves them. He didn't just 273 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: own this one horse. He owns lots of horses. So 274 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: let's just yeah, somebody just says, you know what, I'm 275 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: just gonna pick on that guy's horses. That's a bit 276 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: huge pool of horses just to go after. So yeah, 277 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: of course they're not gonna pay. It's a terrible thing. 278 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: But of course they're not gonna pay. You can't blame them. Besides, what, 279 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: you know that you don't have any guarantee you're gonna 280 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: get your horse back any way. That's and that's that's 281 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: the worst part. You will not necessarily get your property back. 282 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: That all having been said, because you know this is 283 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: supposed to be a short and yet we can't shut up. 284 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: We're going to go into the theories. Let us do that. 285 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: Our first theory is that the culprit. All the theories, 286 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: by the way, they're all who stole the horse. So 287 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: the first theory is that he was stolen or kidnapped 288 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: by the IRA. The IRA has been fingered for this 289 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: by just about everybody out there, including the syndicate that 290 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: owned Shared are He. They they came out and made 291 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: a press release saying they were sure that the IRA 292 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: was responsible for it, and it's there's a little bit 293 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: of evidence for this. There is because it kind of 294 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: does seem like they they were super active at the time. 295 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: They were trying. They were always trying to figure out 296 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: ways to to raise money to buy guns and munitions. 297 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: And if you think about it, a two million pound 298 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: bonus check goes a long way in bullets dynamite. Yeah, 299 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: it would. They also would have the connections to find 300 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: those sleepy little farms out in the middle of nowhere 301 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: where you could with a barn that you could just 302 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: stash a horse. I had lots of sympathizers, lots of sympathizers, 303 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: but one thing that really kind of keyed people into 304 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: think that the IRA was responsible was what happened in 305 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: the negotiations because they were all done by phone, and 306 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: none of the all but one, I should say, all 307 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: but one of the phone calls, which there were quite 308 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: a few, lasted less than nine seconds. Seconds was the 309 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: time that was required to trace a phone call. Your 310 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: common dumb criminal is probably not likely to know that. 311 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: And organized group that is subversive or you know, working 312 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: against the law, is going to be very aware of that. 313 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: But in night, not at this time, Not at this 314 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: time was that as known. I mean, we see all 315 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: this all the time. But I remember in the eighties 316 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: it was the dukes of hazards and stuff. It wasn't 317 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: I gotta stay off the phone for this x amount 318 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: of time to get traced. I mean that wasn't doesn't 319 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: take him ninety seconds anymore in real life, So not 320 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: anymore according to uh so what is uh it's not 321 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: see us. There's some other show it's it takes forty 322 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: seven seconds or something stupid. But they knew this and 323 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: they would not stay on the phone any longer than that, okay, fair. 324 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: And then also there was there was some IRA, a 325 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: guy that wrote a book right, Sean O'Callahan, Yeah, Okallahan, 326 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: he was. He was the i RA, a double agent. 327 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: I don't know why he became a double agent, but 328 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: long story short is that he ended up writing a 329 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: book about his time in the IRA, and one of 330 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: his chapters is about Shargar. According to his book, he says, 331 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: when he realized that the IRA was not going to 332 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: get paid, in other words, they were getting jerked around, 333 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: they had to figure out what to do with his horse, 334 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: and their first and their first idea was well, let's 335 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: just let him go, except because the countryside was such 336 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: a media circus and there were people everywhere looking for 337 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: the horse, they just couldn't turn him loose on a 338 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: road because they're they're safe houses were near that, They're 339 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: they're sympathizers were near there. So what ends up happening 340 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: is some genius decides that what we should do is 341 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: to help with it, we should just kill the horse. 342 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: And according to a Callahan, that ends up what happened. 343 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna I'm gonna spare you the gruesome details, 344 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: but I'm just gonna say the two men with machine 345 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: guns go into a stall and then later on, no 346 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: horse walks out what they did with Yeah, it's it's 347 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: it's despicable. But what happened to share body after that, 348 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: we don't know. I mean, it's a lot of that's 349 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: a lot of material to dispose of. Yeah, I know. 350 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: I've heard that there are a lot of large bogs 351 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: are in that area, so that seems to be the prevalence. 352 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: Thinking as he got pushed into a bog. I can't 353 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: imagine though, that all of him got pushed into the 354 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: same spot in the bog, because horses are fifteen hundred 355 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: pound animals and that's a lot of animal. Yeah. I 356 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: didn't want to think about that either. It's I don't either, 357 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: But I'm saying that he probably got just posited in 358 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: several locations if this theory is correct. Um, But you 359 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: know what, let's let's move on to something that is 360 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: weird but much happier, which is General Gaddafi. Do you 361 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: mean Colonel Kadafi? Well, is it colonel or general? I've 362 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: seen him called bolls uh No, I don't think he 363 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: ever raised his rank beyond colonel. Interesting, and Internet called 364 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: him general. That's why I was asking. An interesting fact 365 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: about Kadafi is that his childhood hero was was Colonel 366 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: gabaldil Nasser of Egypt, and he really deeply admired him 367 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: and he modeled so when when he staged this coup 368 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: along with his fellow officers, I believe he was a 369 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: captain in the Libyan Air Force, and so when he 370 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: became in charge, he immediately bumped his rank to colonel 371 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: because that was that was Bill Nassa's rank, and that 372 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: any as far as I know, he kept it at 373 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: colonel the rest of his life, well, as long as 374 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: he had a military title. That is. Okay, Well, all 375 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: I know is I've seen him called General Goffey. But 376 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: let's let's explain what I've actually promoted himself. Let's explain here. 377 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: If you don't know who good off he is, which 378 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: some people don't, was well was Oh yeah, that's right, 379 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: it was. It was. He was as Joe talked about, 380 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: he had a coup, he then became the literal leader 381 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: in Libya. He also he had a thing for race horses. 382 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, I loved race horses, you know, I mean 383 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is really popular in the Middle East. 384 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: It is. Horse racing is a big thing. A lot 385 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: of Arabs are crazy about horses. Well, not at all unusual. Yeah, no, 386 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: it's not at all. But according to this theory, what 387 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: happens is he brokers a deal. This kind of ties 388 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: in with the last one. He brokers a deal with 389 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: the IRA, says that horse is awesome and I want 390 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: that horse. The IRA then goes in and steals the 391 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: horse for him in exchange for either a money or 392 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: be munitions. I'm sure that he would have had a 393 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: cool hardware to give him. You would have had hardware. Now, 394 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: how they get that horse out of the country, I 395 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: don't know, but have to put him on a ship. 396 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: You're not going to put him on a plane, right, 397 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: you can, but probably not. But here's the thing. Also, 398 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: what what is it that they call it? They the 399 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: early eighties were called I think they call them the 400 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 1: tough Time or the rough time where things were not 401 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: good and we're talking about in Ireland, in Ireland and 402 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: it was easy to bribe, and the pretty creative name 403 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: I know, But everything that I've read about that, whether 404 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: it was in relation to the story or not, they 405 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: used that name. So people had to do what they 406 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: had to do. So I can see it being pretty 407 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: easy to pay off some guy at the port get 408 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: a horse on it. And it's not like there's not 409 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: a lot of boats in Ireland, exactly a lot of boats. Yeah, 410 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: I've got to say, of the theories, I hope this 411 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: one actually is a true one, because you know, Sugar, 412 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: I want to live you. I'm sure cut off he 413 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: took really good care. I'm sure he got lots of 414 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: apples and pets and brushings and all of that. Well, 415 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: the bit of this theory that actually could possibly have 416 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: some uh some truth to it is if you think about, well, 417 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: wait a minute, they've got to take a horse trailer 418 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: and they've got to get it to a shipping port, 419 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: and everybody knows that the horses missing, so there's gonna 420 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: be this giant search. Except whoever did this was smart 421 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: enough to take the horse the night before uh goths 422 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: racehorse sale, which is a major racehorse sale. So there 423 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: are there are vehicles hauling trailers with horses in them 424 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: running all over the place. Where where by the way, 425 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, that's a very good question. And I didn't 426 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: even think to look. I read all about goths, but 427 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: I didn't think about it look exactly where it was 428 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: in relation to the stud farm. It didn't happen to 429 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: have like a look in or near a seaport. You know. Again, 430 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: I didn't even think to look at it, But all 431 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: I know is that it caused tons and tons of 432 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: horse trailer traffic around the area which would disguise their movements. 433 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: So that's interesting because would your average Irishman know about 434 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: golfs or would that be something that horse owners and 435 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: horse traders would know about golfs has From what I 436 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: can tell, they have a lot of auctions, and it 437 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: looks like they have about three or four horse auctions 438 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: a year. There's a race horse, there's a mayor auction, like, 439 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of big horse auctions. So they're they're 440 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: pretty well known if you have any interaction with the 441 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: horse community. I don't think that it's a once a 442 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: year thing that if you weren't in the know, you 443 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: would have no idea about, especially if you were somewhere 444 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: in that area. Because I may be wrong, but I 445 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: got the impression that it was at least in County 446 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: killed there. But I could be completely off on that. 447 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: I got the impression of that, but I could be 448 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: completely wrong. But let's not speculate anymore on that. Let's 449 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: move into our final theory, because again this is a short. 450 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: We've only got a couple of short theories, and this 451 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: one is the funniest theory. This is that the New 452 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: Orleans mafia took the horse. That makes sense? Was it ahead? 453 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: Is this? Is that a Godfather joke? No, The basic 454 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: idea is this one is the background on its similar 455 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: to the Gaddafi one. But the idea is that at 456 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: some point the mafia had a horse deal with aga 457 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: Con and that deal went sour, and so when retribution, 458 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: they stole his favorite horse, his his big money horse, 459 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: and did what it took it and ended what that. 460 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: I don't care that they don't care they took it. 461 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: It could be in a petting zoo at this point. 462 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, Joe. It's just the the theory doesn't 463 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: go any farther than that. That's all there is to 464 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: that particular theory is that they said, hey, you screwed 465 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: us on this deal. We're gonna screw you. We took 466 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: your horse. So did the eight man with guns that 467 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: stole sugar. That they have Cajun accents, not that I 468 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: know of. Okay, there's yeah, I don't know how many 469 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: guys in balacla I means, but nothing about their accents 470 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: showed up, which makes me think they had local dialect accents. 471 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: They might have hired some locals local hug. Yeah, but 472 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: that's all we've got on on this particular one, which 473 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: the guy like I, I prefer the Goodaffi theory because 474 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: that means that he was happily being a horse. This 475 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: might be the very first time we've ever had consensus. Yeah, yeah, 476 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: well you know it takes it takes a nice animal 477 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: to do it. Now, which one do you think is 478 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: most likely the first one? I know? Me too, sadly. Okay, well, 479 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about this particular episodes details, 480 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: you can look those up on our website, Thinking Sideways 481 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Leave comments. Like I said, the links 482 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: are going to be there, and all other episodes are 483 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: on the website. A lot of folks listen to us 484 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: through iTunes. If you're there, leave a comment and a rating. 485 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: We are, of course on Twitter Thinking Sideways. We have 486 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: our email address, which is Thinking Sideways at Thinking Sideways Podcast. Yeah, 487 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: obviously I didn't need the cheat sheet, Joe try to 488 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: give me earlier Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. 489 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: So if you've got thoughts, story suggestions, concerns, send us 490 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: all of that at that email address. We also, of course, 491 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: are on Patreon at Patreon slash thinking sideways. So all 492 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: the details, all the detail is about the episode nickel 493 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: An episode. Oh yeah, So that's all the details about 494 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: how patreart works and how it worked for the show 495 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: are directly there, and of course there's a link to 496 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: that on our website. I think I've got all of 497 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: it there, guys, And I miss something, all right, I 498 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: don't think so. Well, this was not the shortest short ever, 499 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: but we are going to go ahead and wrap this 500 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: one up and we will talk to you again real soon. Everybody. Hi, guys,