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Speaker 1: Worrying. This podcast canate spoilers from My Adventures with Superman

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Speaker 1: not really lights lights light spoilers. Hello, my name is

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Speaker 1: Jason Cepsion and on Rosday Night, and welcome to x

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Speaker 1: ray Vision, the Crooked Media podcast where we dive deepen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, in the previously on, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: something that I know that we're probably both gonna love,

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Speaker 2: which is Armando aya Nucci's new superhero satire that was

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Speaker 2: recently announced.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about something.

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Speaker 2: That's very speculative, but it feels like in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three it's worth talking about, which is the potential of

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Speaker 2: a Disney sale to Apple, something that's been rumored in

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Speaker 2: the business for decades, but seemingly, thanks to a Hollywood

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Speaker 2: reporter articled by Kim Masters, looks like it might be

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Speaker 2: being taken a bit more seriously this time around. In

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Speaker 2: the airlock, it's My Adventures with Superman. You guys wanted

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Speaker 2: us to cover it, and we're going to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: It's cute, it's delightful, delightful, just charming, and in the

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Speaker 2: hive mind we're keeping the Superman theme, going with an

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Speaker 2: interview with Sarah Kuhn and Ariel jo Vilanos about their

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Speaker 2: delightful DC graphic novel Girl taking Over a Lois Lane story.

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Speaker 2: And then in the nerd out, we got someone talking

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Speaker 2: about another xtra Vision fave, which is Naemona.

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Speaker 1: Coming up previously on first up from Variety comes the

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Speaker 1: news that Armando ay Nucci, the creator of the fantastically

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Speaker 1: funny Veep, has got a new show that has been

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Speaker 1: greenlit by HBO. The half hour pilot is titled The Franchise,

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Speaker 1: and it follows a hope crew trapped inside the dysfunctional, nonsensical,

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Speaker 1: joyous hellscape of a franchise superhero movie. Making you heard

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Speaker 1: it here correctly, folks, The creator of Veep is parodying

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Speaker 1: comic book movies. Per Variety quote. According to an individual

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Speaker 1: knowledge of the project, Sam Mendy's Wow Super Teams came

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Speaker 1: up with the original idea for the show and put

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Speaker 1: the project together. The pilot was written by John Brown,

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Speaker 1: keith A. Kushi, and Armando ayan Ucci, with Brown and

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Speaker 1: Akushi writing the pilot, Himish Patel Hey, we love him

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Speaker 1: as it was wonderful, Station eleven Yeah, and Aya Cash

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Speaker 1: who was absolutely transcendently evil and season two of the

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Speaker 1: boys have joined the cast as series regulars. Very exciting

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Speaker 1: and I think, actually, you know, a really smart move, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just from the Struck company HBO.

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Speaker 2: Yes, unbelievably timely, and I will say very likely that

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Speaker 2: this was already in the works, had already been picked up.

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Speaker 2: They're releasing news at a delayed level, though obviously it

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Speaker 2: is different when it's English people.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think this is a great idea. I

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Speaker 3: would love to see it.

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Speaker 2: Ayanucci's brilliant, He's like a British legend. He's incredible at satire.

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Speaker 2: These companies deeply deserve to be satirized. I'm sure part

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Speaker 2: of the reason HBO is making this is because if

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Speaker 2: you think about which franchise has been most successful and

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Speaker 2: will most likely be being satirized, this will likely be

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Speaker 2: an MCU satire.

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Speaker 3: It will be about the whole shebang.

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Speaker 2: But let's be real, when you think about the franchise,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna probably be in that space of a movies

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Speaker 2: of twenty movies in a row, kind of superhero comic book.

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Speaker 2: Ayanucci is a genre guy. He did the really great

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Speaker 2: Avenue five. I believe it was called which was the

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Speaker 2: sci Fi Day Darlin. Yeah, he also did if you

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Speaker 2: haven't seen It, and it is obviously a bit off

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Speaker 2: the beaten path of it Trivision, but his version of

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Speaker 2: David Copperfield that he did with Dev Patel is like

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Speaker 2: one of my all time favorite movies. I'm not even

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Speaker 2: really a period piece guy, but it's such an interesting,

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Speaker 2: whimsical take on how to tell a story like that,

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Speaker 2: and it's brilliant. Dev is amazing. I love him Ash,

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Speaker 2: so I'm really happy about that. I love so many

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Speaker 2: Billy Magnuson is great. Who's also been in this Rigidie

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Speaker 2: Grant obviously legend Daniel Brawl. So he's bringing MCU two

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Speaker 2: the franchise. Yeah, just so many good people. I think

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Speaker 2: this will be hilarious. Who knows when it will get made.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it will will have to wait for more news,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, this sounds good.

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Speaker 1: End you know, on a more on a more kind

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Speaker 1: of noodle brained note. I think it's it's telling that

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Speaker 1: you can always kind of tell where you are in

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Speaker 1: the life cycle of a genre or a thing by

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Speaker 1: when the parodies show up. Yeah, and you know, parody

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Speaker 1: satire is kind of like a way of saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what about this thing that we're kind of tired of?

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Speaker 1: Do we still care about?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And it seems like the perfect time for that, and

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Speaker 1: we look forward to it. Up next, The Hollywood Reporter

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Speaker 1: with a with a big story on the one hundredth

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Speaker 1: day of the writers strike about the possibility, the possibility,

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Speaker 1: the many analysts and right, the possibility that Disney could

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Speaker 1: sell to Apple. Here's a quote from the story. There

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Speaker 1: clearly is no buyer like Apple, which is sitting on

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Speaker 1: sixty two billion in cash and cash equivalents and has

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Speaker 1: a two point eight trillion dollar Morket cap. And while

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Speaker 1: it may be very true that Apple doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: buy a studio, maybe he wants to buy this studio.

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Speaker 1: And of course, the story goes on to outline various

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Speaker 1: connects between the two corporations, including Pixar, which notably Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs sold to Disney, and the friendship between Iiger and

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs. But I think to me what was most

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Speaker 1: interesting about this piece is that it gets at a

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Speaker 1: reality which everybody understands is coming, and which is also

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Speaker 1: pretty important as a dynamic in the whole You know,

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Speaker 1: various labor movements that are going on in the industry,

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Speaker 1: and it's that in three years, four years, five years,

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Speaker 1: there's not gonna be Peacock, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Apple

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Speaker 1: TV Plus. There's gonna be like three and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be the most massive. They're gonna be huge, right like

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Speaker 1: you know, Peacock and Disney will reabsorb Hulu contractually, then

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Speaker 1: may sell itself to Apple. You know, Universal may go somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So like all of these things, the things that the

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Speaker 1: writers and the actors are fighting for and IATSI will

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Speaker 1: fighting for when their contract comes up are important because

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Speaker 1: you know the life of these deals is going to

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Speaker 1: extended to a time in which the studios become only

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Speaker 1: more entrenched, more monolithic, more difficult to deal with, and

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Speaker 1: so it's pretty important. Also important is the perspective that

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration has not been exactly welcoming of new

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Speaker 1: you know, mergers and acquisitions. They tried to fight the

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Speaker 1: Activision Blizzard takeover by Microsoft, which they kind of failed

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Speaker 1: to do. They did stop the publishing one I forget,

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Speaker 1: which the proposed publishing M and A anyway very interesting

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Speaker 1: and you know, I would be surprised, I guess if

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Speaker 1: a Titan like Disney is the one that gets gobbled up.

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Speaker 1: But everybody knows that this will happen, some version of

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Speaker 1: this one.

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Speaker 3: Some version will happen.

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Speaker 2: And this is a rumor that has been going around

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Speaker 2: for like at least the decade in Hollywood circles, in

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Speaker 2: comic shop circles, just people talking about it. The truth is,

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Speaker 2: it seems unbelievable, But Disney in this current market has

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Speaker 2: one of the most profitable, valuable, and dense content libraries.

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Speaker 2: And that is as depressing as it may be what

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Speaker 2: these sales are about. And in that way, I do

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Speaker 2: believe that there is a version where Apple may want

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Speaker 2: to be able to have every Disney movie available on

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Speaker 2: Apple TV and also be able to get all the

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Speaker 2: money that they know. Apple has an incredibly insightful understanding

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Speaker 2: of how much money Disney movie makes because they sell

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Speaker 2: them on Apple TV, like families buy them, and they

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Speaker 2: can see how many times people buy them, how many

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Speaker 2: times people watch them. I'm sure they would love to

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Speaker 2: have that money. I'm sure they would love to be

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Speaker 2: able to own those brands, let alone before you get

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Speaker 2: into how much the parks, the things like Marvel, Star Wars,

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Speaker 2: all of those things. So it feels unbelievable because Disney

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Speaker 2: is a like monolith, But I believe right now, because

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Speaker 2: of how much they put into streaming that this is

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Speaker 2: more possible than ever. While still being an outlier, They're

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Speaker 2: gonna buy someone.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that has people talking about this

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Speaker 1: again in this kind of very intense, heated way is,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of one of the signs that media

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Speaker 1: watchers had put out there as harbinger of perhaps Disney

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Speaker 1: could sell is if Disney starts, you know, selling off,

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Speaker 1: spinning off any of its various properties. And the fact

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Speaker 1: that Bob Iger you know, went on CNBC recently and

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Speaker 1: basically hung a for sale sign on various properties owned Disney,

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Speaker 1: including ESPN, including ABC, has signaled to people that, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe this is indeed happening. One one tidbits really

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Speaker 1: stood out to me on here, Quoting from the article,

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Speaker 1: Disney's linear networks generated eight point five billion in profits

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Speaker 1: in fiscal twenty twenty two, though that is expected to

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Speaker 1: decline as cord cutting continues. This is why it's important

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Speaker 1: to understand, like, when they're like others, it's a bad business,

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Speaker 1: and lineary is a bad business. Disney made eight and

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Speaker 1: a half billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: More money than Criver imagine, but because but it's not

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Speaker 2: enough profit.

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Speaker 1: That's just one that comes up.

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Speaker 3: Everything that's wrong with the industry is right now.

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Speaker 1: But here this is where we are. One more aspect

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Speaker 1: of this I think is interesting. So I mentioned like

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration is in Biden's FTC chair is the

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Speaker 1: most aggressive against tech in particular of any of the

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Speaker 1: ft CE chairs in history. I guess you could say

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Speaker 1: Biden is the Biden administration has been more hostile to

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Speaker 1: M and A. But with the whole uh you know,

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Speaker 1: DeSantis Disney war of it all, you do wonder like, okay,

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Speaker 1: would the would a potential Republican administration be any better?

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Speaker 1: Like they would they put this? Would they put Disney

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Speaker 1: through the ringer? If Disney tried to sell under God

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Speaker 1: forbid President Trump or President DeSantis? An interesting thing to

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Speaker 1: look out for, might you might you wonder if they

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Speaker 1: might want what want to do it now rather than wait.

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Speaker 2: Yet at the same time they I think another reason

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Speaker 2: and they point this out in the Hollywood Report arcle

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Speaker 2: is like that recent overturning of the Microsoft activision kind

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Speaker 2: of merger where the judge was like, actually this isn't

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Speaker 2: a monopoly and this is fine. That probably made at

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Speaker 2: least one higher up at Disney go, oh, maybe we

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Speaker 2: could do this. You know, even under this, even under

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Speaker 2: this like really hardcore administration, you're still occasionally finding these

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Speaker 2: mergers being.

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Speaker 3: Allowed to happen.

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Speaker 2: So under like, yeah, the bigger, more generous, like more

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Speaker 2: business centric administration, like of understand as a Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: I don't think they'd have any worry.

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Speaker 1: Well, Microsoft did something smart which was basically head off

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Speaker 1: any kind of criticism of you know, the monopolistic power

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Speaker 1: of a Microsoft acquisitional Blizzard by basically saying, hey, we

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Speaker 1: promise PlayStation, we promise Sony, and we promise our competitors

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Speaker 1: like we're not gonna we're not going to keep you

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Speaker 1: from the new Call of Duty game or the new

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Speaker 1: Overwatch game. You know, really call of Duty is the

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Speaker 1: big one, Like we're gonna let you have Call of Duty.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about it, Like there's we promise, we're not

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Speaker 1: gonna just shuttle Call of Duty to PC and Xbox.

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Speaker 1: And so that was a way for them to say, say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good criticisms. You wonder how how Disney would That's

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Speaker 1: my biggest potentional side stuff.

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Speaker 2: I also wonder, like how much of what they're doing

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Speaker 2: right now that seemed was again something people thought Disney

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Speaker 2: would never do, which was like selling off their their

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Speaker 2: stuff that had been on Disney Plus. Suddenly they're scrapping it,

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Speaker 2: they're taking right downs, they're letting other streaming services have it.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if there's something there about like allowing the

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Speaker 2: Disney properties to exist on multiple different platforms rather than

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Speaker 2: being exclusive to Apple. You know, there's certain things. Now

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Speaker 2: this would be so unprecedented that it's hard to know,

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Speaker 2: but it's we are in up once again living through

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Speaker 2: unprecedented times. It would be nice for them to just

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Speaker 2: be precedented, but right now very unprecedented.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this is kind of an aside,

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Speaker 1: but I think one of the smartest strategies in the

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Speaker 1: streaming era has been Sony, who issued the kind of

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Speaker 1: lemming like dive over the cliff of streaming and instead decided, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to start our own streamer at a

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Speaker 1: cost of billions of dollars in losses every year. We're

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Speaker 1: just going to make content and supply it to whoever

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Speaker 1: the fuck wants. Yeah, you know, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: you're seeing like obviously Disney is doing some of this

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Speaker 1: now they put Secret Invasion on Hulu, which they own,

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Speaker 1: but like, you know, there's I think you're right in

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Speaker 1: that you're going to see everybody who's not Netflix start

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Speaker 1: selling their content all around town. Okay, up next to

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Speaker 1: the airlock. We're stepping out of the air lock and

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Speaker 1: into Metropolis for My Adventures with Superman on Adult Swim

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Speaker 1: and Max. It's a wonderful anime inspired love story that

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Speaker 1: really focuses on the relationship of between Clark and Lois Lane,

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Speaker 1: who are here in their very early twenties. Jack Quaid

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Speaker 1: as Clark Kent Alice Lee is Lois Lane, Ishmael Saheit

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Speaker 1: is Jimmy Olsen. And it's really great. It's really great.

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Speaker 1: It's delight. What did you think.

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Speaker 2: I thought it's beautiful. I mean, it's so gorgeously animated.

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Speaker 2: From the opening, they kind of showcase that this show

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Speaker 2: understands what makes Superman magical. You get this great kind

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Speaker 2: of origin opening of him as a little kid. The

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Speaker 2: music scores are perfect, the animation, which I believe is

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Speaker 2: Studio mir who are just so great. It's gorgeous to

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Speaker 2: look at tonally it's so much fun. I think it

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Speaker 2: speaks and we'll talk about this in our conversation with

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Speaker 2: Ariel and Sarah that's coming up. But like it speaks

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Speaker 2: to like the timeless nature of Superman, Lois and Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Jimmy is the breakout for me, Like conspiracy absass,

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Speaker 2: like he loves Jemmy, he wants to report to find

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Speaker 2: the truth, like he is so much fun. But there's

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Speaker 2: this timeless nature to these characters who have been around

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Speaker 2: this year eighty five years. It's the eighty fifth anniversary

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Speaker 2: of Lois and Clark, and this show just shows that

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Speaker 2: you can put them into a different situation, you can

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Speaker 2: showcase them in a totally different way. Here this is

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Speaker 2: very much a Lois Clark and Jimmy story rather than

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Speaker 2: necessarily a Superman story.

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Speaker 3: But it works so well.

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Speaker 5: You want to read them.

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Speaker 1: They have super mass, he's Superman, you get fun.

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Speaker 2: Super Man stuff. They obviously have that the transformation that

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Speaker 2: went viral of him transforming Magical Girls style. You know,

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Speaker 2: the designs on the costumes are really fun. They fill

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Speaker 2: it with deep cut, weird DC characters, which we always love.

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Speaker 3: I I think.

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Speaker 2: It's very sad this didn't end up on Cartoon Network

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Speaker 2: because I think it is legitimately like a perfect Cartoon

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Speaker 2: Network show. But with the whole shenanigans that are going

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Speaker 2: on over there, with them shutting down the Cartoon Network

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Speaker 2: building and laying off a lot of people at Cartoon Network,

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Speaker 2: we can imagine that that is not Kids and Family,

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Speaker 2: is not focused for Warner Brothers. But it's also cool

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Speaker 2: that it's on Adult Swim because Adult Swim is in

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Speaker 2: America one of the kind of hubs of anime, So

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Speaker 2: to have a show that is so deeply inspired by

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Speaker 2: anime but that's also in this comics universe. And it debuted,

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Speaker 2: you know, originally at midnight, which at first I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: they've kind of pushed it aside and they're hiding it.

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Speaker 2: But then I learned that midnight is basically at that's

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Speaker 2: prime time for Adult Swim because that's the time that

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Speaker 2: they would always show like Everybody's new anime shows and.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's Everybody's Everybody's weed buzzing and.

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Speaker 3: Hunter X Hunters on there or whatever, like, you know.

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Speaker 2: So I kind of love that it's gotten to be

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Speaker 2: this sort of organic fun thing that people are discovering,

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Speaker 2: and it's been really lovely because I can imagine people

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Speaker 2: watching it with their kids. I can imagine people like

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Speaker 2: us who've read a million Superman comics watching it and

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Speaker 2: it just feels both fresh and totally recognizable.

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Speaker 3: And I think for me, that's something I always really.

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Speaker 2: Love in superhero storytelling, is like, does it make me

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Speaker 2: feel like it understands the characters while also making me

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Speaker 2: feel like there's a reason it exists, which is to

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Speaker 2: introduce something a little new.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, here's the thing and the reason it exists. Front

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Speaker 1: one thing I I I love that DC does. Everybody

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Speaker 1: who's listening to this understands that I've been a lifelong

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Speaker 1: Marvel fan and dip my toe in se strategically. But

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Speaker 1: one thing, one thing I will eagerly tell anyone that

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Speaker 1: I love that DC does and I wish Marvel would do,

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Speaker 1: is like love story centric. Yes, shows issues like episode

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Speaker 1: like there was a there's an anthology series Mysteries of

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Speaker 1: Love in Space. It was kind of research, which was

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Speaker 1: just like a variety of love stories starring Bizarro, Superman,

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Speaker 1: Lois and Clark. From Lois's perspective, Green Lantern, and I

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Speaker 1: fucking love shit like that, and this show really reminds

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Speaker 1: me of that and.

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Speaker 4: To the.

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Speaker 1: In terms of what you said about like staying true

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Speaker 1: to the characters. It really this show really hammered home

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Speaker 1: for me. One of the things that is deceptively really

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Speaker 1: hard to nail with Superman, which they really do, and

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Speaker 1: that's like he's obviously like he is so good, He's

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Speaker 1: a fucking paragon. He has an intense empathy. He just

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Speaker 1: wants to help people. And part of part of nailing

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Speaker 1: that is getting the reveal, right, getting the moment where

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Speaker 1: Lois figures it out or Clark tells. You know, they've

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Speaker 1: done it different ways, right, I don't want to spoil

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Speaker 1: how they do it in this show, but you've seen

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Speaker 1: it different ways where either Lois figures it out or

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Speaker 1: Clark tells her. And that is such a deceptively hard

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Speaker 1: moment to nail because if you get it wrong, and

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Speaker 1: different stories have played with this throughout the years, you're

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Speaker 1: basically you know, Clark is a liar, Clark's lying, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for X amount of years he's been hiding this secret,

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Speaker 1: and you know, like impugning her journalistic mores, Like there's

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of things that this that this reveal

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Speaker 1: can uncover that that's potentially sticky. And this show really

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Speaker 1: nails nails, and that's great Superman stories really nail at work.

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Speaker 1: Exactly reveal happens, and it's not like you dick no.

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Speaker 2: Actually, for a lot of like even you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of the comics, you will be reading years and

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Speaker 2: years afterwards and you're like, wait, does Lowis like not know?

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Speaker 3: Like is she dating both of them? Like what's going

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Speaker 3: on here?

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Speaker 2: But I I loved the way they do it in

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Speaker 2: this show. I think you're absolutely the way they do

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Speaker 2: it as well, they nail it. And also the best

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Speaker 2: thing is it can be very tempting as a storyteller

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Speaker 2: to have something like that as a huge like end

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Speaker 2: of season hook, but I think that they reveal it

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Speaker 2: exactly the right time to allow you to continue on

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Speaker 2: your journey with these characters with that knowledge.

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Speaker 3: Also, I love the representation of Superman here. Now, if

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Speaker 3: I'm not mistake, I.

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Speaker 2: Cannot remember which one of the creators it was. I

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Speaker 2: wish I could, But one of the creators did a

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Speaker 2: tweet where she was basically like, this is my whole

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Speaker 2: dream has just been to do like wife Guy Superman,

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Speaker 2: where he just loves Jis and he is absolutely like

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Speaker 2: that is who he is, is like he just loves Lois.

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Speaker 2: And it is so delightful to see the way that

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Speaker 2: they play with these kind of visual nods that we

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Speaker 2: understand from anime. Like the first episode where they meet,

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Speaker 2: you get Clark with the blushing and he has like

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Speaker 2: the little red cheeks, and it's They have a lot

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Speaker 2: of fun using the visual language of shows like sailor

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Speaker 2: Moon of things like you know, the shonan adventure of

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Speaker 2: like one Piece or dragon ball Z or whatever, emerging

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Speaker 2: them all together, but in a way that doesn't feel derivative.

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Speaker 2: It feels like, oh, this is what people who made

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Speaker 2: this show loved, and that feels really special. I think

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Speaker 2: there should be a lot more conversation, a lot more

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Speaker 2: work in a Western comics and stuff that's inspired by

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Speaker 2: Western comics should be in conversation with anime and manga,

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Speaker 2: and this show does it in like a truly delightful way. Plus,

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Speaker 2: the character designs are great, and every time they introduce

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Speaker 2: a new character, like the cast of characters of DCP

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Speaker 2: folks that you get to see in this are so outrageous,

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Speaker 2: and every time someone pops up you're like, oh shit,

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Speaker 2: like doctor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I fucking love this design, Like this is so good.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's just they.

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Speaker 2: And doing it and like the thing that I I

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Speaker 2: just this is the kind of show where I feel

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Speaker 2: like there could be like ten seasons of it and

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Speaker 2: you just keep watching them. Will that happen in the

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Speaker 2: state of the Struck Company, Warner Brothers and HBO like

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Speaker 2: as we know it?

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Speaker 3: Oh, adults, and probably not. But I want to see

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Speaker 3: more of this.

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Speaker 1: I will say I agree with you. I think they

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Speaker 1: did the reveal at exactly the right point in the

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Speaker 1: season for all the reasons you mentioned, and plus like

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Speaker 1: this in twenty twenty three, I think you're selling out

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Speaker 1: Lois a little bit if she can't if you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like you're staring in this person's face.

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Speaker 1: There's pictures of Superman all over the place, Like, at

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Speaker 1: some point, if Lois is worth her salt as a

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Speaker 1: journalist and investigative reporter, she's got to be like, hold

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Speaker 1: on a second. They do that wonderfully. But one thing

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Speaker 1: I will miss post the reveal is another thing the

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Speaker 1: show does great is really nail that dynamic of like

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Speaker 1: when two people in a friend group start crushing on

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Speaker 1: it and everybody knows it, but they deny it that

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Speaker 1: they get a lot of really really great mileage out

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 3: They do it well, you dude, Like I was singing

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Speaker 3: about that early.

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Speaker 2: Like even in the first episode, they have this great

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Speaker 2: moment where like Lois and Clark have like kind of

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Speaker 2: like an argument and and Clark is in the right

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Speaker 2: and Lois is in the wrong, and like they're both

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Speaker 2: like I think Lois is talking to Jimmy and then

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Speaker 2: Clark's just like talking out on the street and it

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Speaker 2: ends up being one of the Newsboy Legion who comes.

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Speaker 3: And they're both just like saying the same shit that

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Speaker 3: they would say to each other.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh my god, Like I just I just

416
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Speaker 2: think I really messed up and I should have done this,

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Speaker 2: and like the Newsboy Legion kids like nine, and she's like,

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Speaker 2: uh yeah no, Like there's like evil robots, like you

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Speaker 2: need to come and help, and like Lois is talking

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Speaker 2: to Jimmy and Jimmy's like, uh, there's robots. And even

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Speaker 2: from the beginning, like you just know that these two

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Speaker 2: are basically like made for each other, and it's they

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Speaker 2: do a really good job of making it still feel

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Speaker 2: like there's romantic tension even you know that those two

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Speaker 2: are end game, which I think is a very hard

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Speaker 2: thing to do.

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Speaker 3: And also like I just agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I just think that there's just not enough romance focused

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Speaker 2: stories like a superhero comics.

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Speaker 1: I kept thinking, like, imagine like a Peter Parker Mary

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Speaker 1: Jane's romance comic.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and focus if you do it well, So like

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Speaker 2: I will say, you know, we like if you do

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Speaker 2: it well.

435
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: You say, well, I know.

436
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: But like before anyone comes in and been like, oh,

437
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 2: haven't you ever read like the you're talking about something Jason,

438
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 2: Me and Jason, they're talking about something like thoughtful and

439
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 2: interesting and like, so if you want to.

440
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: Read in Sue reading Sue meeting and falling.

441
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 3: In love exactly.

442
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: Also, like Rogan Gambit looked the age difference. There's a

443
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: lot of problems, but we all ship them.

444
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: You can age them up a little bit.

445
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: It's fine.

446
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: But like those like a Rogan Gambit show like this

447
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: are you mad? That would be a hit? Like why

448
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: doesn't that exist? I'm always trying to put everything warlock.

449
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: I love that.

450
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 2: Every time I speak to anyone in DC, I'm like, so,

451
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: what do you think about like it's like a web

452
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: tune but it's swamping and abby rcane and it's like

453
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: a romance, And they always look at me and I'm like,

454
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 2: trust me, people want monster romance, like the things that

455
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 2: the people want. So I love that aspect and I

456
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: think that is what makes this show shine, is like

457
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: the balance fun. I imagine if you're a kid, yeah,

458
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: and you love you know, Pokemon, or you love One

459
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: Piece and you watch anime all the time on crunchy

460
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 2: roll or whatever, and you never really got into superhero

461
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: comics because you're still like ten and you just haven't

462
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: read them. Imagine if you find this show like this

463
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: can be like your Batman the animated series. Now, it's

464
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: gonna have a totally different impact.

465
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: But to see a show like.

466
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: This that understands the tropes and the stylistic flare of

467
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: the things that you love and takes homage and influence

468
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: from the shows that you already like, and it introduces

469
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 2: you to this legendary, iconic character who's been around for

470
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: eighty five years, that just makes me feel really excited

471
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 2: because I do think this will be that show for

472
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: a lot of kids.

473
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 1: I completely agree, A really, really fun show. Check it

474
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: out up next Hive Mind.

475
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we explore a topic

476
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: in more detail with expert guests. Today, we are thrilled

477
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 2: to be joined by Sarah Kuon and Ariel Jovilanos, who

478
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: wrote an illustrated girl taking over a Lois Lane story

479
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: along with beautiful colors by Olivia Puccini, and we are

480
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: so happy to have them here today.

481
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: Sarah and Ariel, thank you so much for joining us.

482
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: Thanks for having us.

483
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so nice to be here.

484
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate you to making it possible. It has

485
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 2: been a true journey to get you on a podcast.

486
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: I appreciate I appreciate you making the journey so. One

487
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: of the things that we love to ask people here

488
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: and I think I can't wait to you but talk.

489
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: It was like, what was your comic book origin story?

490
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: Like what was the thing that made you fall in

491
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: love with comics? Sarah, I'm going to point to you

492
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: first comic book.

493
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 4: Sure, you know, I I think I probably told a

494
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: few versions of whatever that story is, So I'm not

495
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 4: sure I even know anymore, but I I you know,

496
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 4: I can't remember a time in my life where I

497
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 4: didn't I didn't have comic books. I grew up with them.

498
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 4: I had them in childhood. My brother and I used

499
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: to haunt the spinner rocks at the grocery store when

500
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 4: you could get floppies for seventy five cents, so sometimes

501
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: even fifty cents. That's really, as we all know, not

502
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 4: the case anymore. And I think we started with things

503
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: like Archie and Superman. I remember the Christopher Reeves Supermans

504
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 4: were some of kind of my first big comic book

505
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 4: fandom movies. That's really where I fell in love with

506
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 4: Lewis Lane, and I was a big X Men kid.

507
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 4: You know, we watched the animated series, we collected all

508
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 4: the comics, we got super into all the continuity and

509
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 4: all of that. So I feel like they've always been

510
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: in my life. I can't really remember a time when

511
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 4: I didn't, I didn't read them. You know. That might

512
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 4: have been my dad too. He was a big comic

513
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 4: book collector. He had a story about how his mother,

514
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 4: our grandmother, threw away his collection when he went to college,

515
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 4: and that was like a childhood trauma for him for

516
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 4: a really long time. So maybe one of the reasons

517
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 4: he would literally buy us whatever we wanted besides the

518
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: fact that they only caused seventy five cents, was that

519
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: he wanted to like kind of you know, repurchase his

520
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 4: collection or like whatever modern version that collection. So yes,

521
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 4: I've always been a comic book kid, and it's still

522
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 4: wild to me that I get to make them now.

523
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: How about you.

524
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 5: Oh, I didn't start off with superheroes. I started off

525
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 5: with I guess, like how most kids do, maybe with

526
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 5: like Garfield Don't Be and just like the Saturday Funny is,

527
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 5: I'm obsessed with Garfield. And then from there, I think

528
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 5: I kind of transitioned to making my first versions of

529
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: comics by making kind of strip comics because that's like

530
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 5: that was the first time that I had seen like

531
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 5: the form of comics. So the first initial comics that

532
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 5: I had made were like very comic strippy, very much. Honestly,

533
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 5: they were kind of ripping off the plays of cartoonses

534
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 5: of things that I had seen, especially like they would

535
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 5: be ripping off plots of SpongeBob and Dexter's laboratory, things

536
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 5: like that, and then I would just kind of transfer

537
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 5: them into comics. But like with my own characters, it

538
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 5: wasn't really until that I got into manga that I

539
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 5: was sort of reading comics that feel more like the

540
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 5: comics that I actually read today, and that influenced my

541
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 5: work today. So the first one that I always talk

542
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 5: about no matter what is Ranmo, which I actually would

543
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 5: hear this was manga. Yeah, I love godkahash U sense

544
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 5: love her. But that the first two volumes of Ranma

545
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 5: that I ever bought, those are the two ones that

546
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 5: I were that I was completely obsessed with. I collected

547
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 5: up to a certain point and read past those two

548
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 5: volumes of course, but like, uh, those first two volumes

549
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 5: were the ones that I would reread over and over

550
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 5: and over again from like middle school on, I would

551
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 5: I did. I didn't even know that that's what it

552
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 5: was called, but I would do master studies of the

553
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 5: pages and the character designs. And so definitely, Iranma has

554
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 5: been very, very influential. And then it wasn't really really

555
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 5: until call after college that I got into, uh, superheroes earnestly,

556
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 5: and I fell like deep, deep deep into like a

557
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 5: rabbit hole those superheroes, which I've told the story at

558
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 5: multiple times at this point, but I just basically basically,

559
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 5: very very very long story short. I had gotten into

560
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 5: the MC see You because of Curse Evans, and then

561
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 5: that sort of led me into that sort of led

562
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 5: me into genuinely reading uh superhero comics, especially Young Avengers,

563
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 5: which was my was my favorite and and I mean honestly,

564
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 5: I think since I don't know, my my uh my

565
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 5: enjoyment of superhero comics has always felt tied to like

566
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 5: teen Shenanigans. So I was like, very very thrilled that

567
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 5: lois being very teen Shenanigans, and it went, Yeah, it

568
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 5: wound up being like a very perfect fit for like

569
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 5: what I love about comics and superhero comics with Lewis.

570
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 4: Lane, I have to I have to mention my favorite

571
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 4: part of that story I hedn't with this time, which

572
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 4: is when you talked about how she found like Chris

573
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: Evans and MP you and she actually like caught up

574
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: on most of it through like fan fiction. Yes, but no, no, no,

575
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: that's not my favorite part. My favorite part is that

576
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 4: she says, she says it so respectfully. She says, there

577
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: was a very nice young man named Steve Rogers, and

578
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 4: I have no more that's this very nice young man

579
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 4: named Steve Rogers. It's so respectful, that's nice. It's like,

580
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 4: it's so it's so respectful.

581
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 3: She's looking respectfully, and she's.

582
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 4: Looking round actually at America's ass. I appreciate that. Of course,

583
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 4: I appreciate that so much.

584
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: Respectfully, that is America's as respectfully. Earlier you mentioned it.

585
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: We're here talking to y'all because of your book Girl

586
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: taking Over a Lois Lane story. Sarah tell us about

587
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: the book.

588
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, it's I mean, it's like, it's so funny.

589
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: I feel like our brains are so dead now because

590
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: we've been talking about this book for like three months,

591
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 4: but we never retired talking about it. But I'm having

592
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: like that short circuit moment where I'm like, what is

593
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: that book about that I've been talking about three months? So?

594
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 4: A Girl taking Over colon a Lowis Lane first has

595
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 4: the longest title ever. It's about a teenage Asian American

596
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: biracial Lois Lane and she has just graduated from high

597
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 4: school and gotten her first internship in the big city.

598
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: It's National City, which is kind of DC's version of

599
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 4: Los Angeles, and I live in Los Angeles, so I

600
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 4: was really excited to sort of write in that environment.

601
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: And she has this idea of what her perfect summer

602
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 4: is what's going to happen, how it's going to be

603
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 4: so amazing, and it kind of doesn't totally work out.

604
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: It actually falls apart pretty much immediately, and so she

605
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 4: kind of has to find her own way, make new friends,

606
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 4: do a lot of hyjinks, you know that has a

607
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 4: very rama sensibility as well. There's less of hygienk hyjink hijinks,

608
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 4: and it's kind of the story about how she finds herself,

609
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 4: how she finds her voice, and how she falls in

610
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 4: love with journalism and becomes a version of the lowest

611
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 4: Lane that we all know and love.

612
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Ariel, one of the things I mean, the book

613
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: is beautiful, and Sarah, I'm a huge fan of oial writing,

614
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: but this has such a distinct visual language that you

615
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: crafted with Olivia Pucuna the colors.

616
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: Could you talk a little bit about.

617
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: Like getting to kind of play in this superhero world

618
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: but in a totally different visual way than we've ever got.

619
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 2: See you really got to craft a unique world with

620
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: Sarah and Olivia.

621
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I always say this in all of the interviews,

622
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 5: but it really starts with first Sarah being well one

623
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 5: a writer that I've we've been dying to collaborate on

624
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 5: a like a longer story for ages, and so I

625
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 5: think and I think that was just because we could

626
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 5: inherently sense that there was something harmonious about like the

627
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 5: way that we think of stories that would melod very

628
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 5: well together by the time that we would have a script,

629
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 5: like a full script. And so the way that Sarah

630
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 5: writes is just very it's it's very visual, it's very

631
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 5: conversational in the fact that I when I see her script,

632
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, she is giving me enough, really really

633
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 5: enough description for me to get what she's going for,

634
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 5: but she gives me like a lot of runway to

635
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 5: play with. And so it really starts with I think

636
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 5: Sarah's colorful way of describing how she wants something and

637
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 5: then me being able to kind of compute that in

638
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 5: my brain and being like, Okay, this is this is

639
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 5: what she means, And based off of how I know

640
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 5: to play around with visual language, I'm going to translate

641
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 5: what she said in words and then try to make

642
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 5: it work with a visual And I think we just

643
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 5: worked really well together in that respect. And I think

644
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 5: as well that Olivia and Melanie. Olivia are colorist Melanie

645
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 5: our letterer also kind of got the vibe too, And

646
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 5: I really do think it's a testament to Sarah Sarah's

647
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 5: like strong writing and direction, as well as our editor,

648
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 5: Sarah Miller's ability to kind of keep the ship and

649
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 5: the vision like all pointing in one direction, leading us

650
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 5: to the same place. And I think that's why it.

651
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 5: I think the book came out so as well as

652
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 5: it did. Honestly, sometimes I like will open it like

653
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 5: randomly and be like, damn, we read and even months

654
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 5: even months later, I'll be like, Wow, damn, look at

655
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 5: look at this.

656
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: It's great.

657
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: You know.

658
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

659
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: One of the things that really struck me about the

660
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: book that I loved is just the the the fashions,

661
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: the styles. I'm a big fan of that and everything,

662
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: and you know, all the kind of visual stuff that

663
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: I end up reading. And I think it's really wonderfully done,

664
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: particularly with Lois and her roommate McGee tell us about

665
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: the creation of the various fashions that these women were,

666
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, going to work, going out, and how you

667
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: chose and ideated on those ideas.

668
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: Uh, Sarah, do you want to start with the sure?

669
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I think that you know, uh, as

670
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 4: Ariel mentioned, like Sarah Miller, our editor, was such a

671
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 4: wonderful sort of leader and guide for this project, and

672
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 4: we I think the three of us all have very

673
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 4: similar sensibilities about stories and characters and fashion, and especially

674
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 4: you know, the as fashion as it related to these characters.

675
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 4: I always knew that was going to be a really

676
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 4: important part of the book, and when we got Ariel

677
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 4: on board, we were both so excited because we knew that, like,

678
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 4: this book should have so much movement, so much vibrance,

679
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 4: so much you know, expression, and we knew that was

680
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: something that Ariel is just so amazing at. And like

681
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: Ariel said, like we had wanted She and I had

682
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 4: wanted to collaborate together for so long on something, and

683
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 4: so when it came to the fashion, the three of

684
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 4: us had like very detailed discussions about it, and I

685
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 4: think I had put some descriptions in the script. But

686
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 4: then when we were we started working on the first

687
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 4: character designs, I think I wrote up like a brief

688
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 4: that was sort of like here, you know, we don't

689
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 4: have the whole script yet. I think we just had

690
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 4: to outline at that point, maybe a little bit of

691
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 4: a script, but we were kind of like, we want

692
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 4: like this character to sort of look like this, like

693
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 4: this is her body language, this is the way she

694
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 4: goes about things, this is the way she dresses. Here

695
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 4: are maybe some real life inspirations. And we had sort

696
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 4: of like different like actresses and influencers who we thought

697
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 4: like maybe had a certain style or look that were

698
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 4: good inspirations. So I put those together in a brief

699
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 4: and I think I included like some Instagram links and

700
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 4: of and then Ariel made this amazing, like these amazing

701
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 4: mood boards for each character, kind of pulling from that,

702
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 4: but I think like the idea was just you know,

703
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 4: we wanted them to look obviously fresh, obviously modern, obviously

704
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 4: like you know, young people today instead of maybe like

705
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 4: young people when when we were all sixteen, although honestly,

706
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 4: a lot of the fashion from when I was sixteen

707
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 4: is coming back now, so like sometimes I look at

708
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 4: the youth and I'm like, I think I had that

709
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 4: exact same story. But anyway, I just like that was

710
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 4: honestly one of the parts that I was the most

711
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 4: excited for because I'd been such a fan of Ariel's

712
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 4: work for so long, and I just knew that the

713
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 4: fashion was going to be amazing and it was a

714
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 4: very detailed process and Ariel, I don't know if you

715
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 4: want to talk about like how you kind of created

716
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 4: those mood boards and then led into your actual character design.

717
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure. So I think in terms of well,

718
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 5: for me, I think something that I've known about myself

719
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 5: is that I don't love drawing the outfit that is

720
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 5: canon most of the time of any character because I'm

721
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 5: just like, I don't know, I just think that that's

722
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 5: that's not often why I there are many many images

723
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 5: of like character A always dressed in their normal character

724
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 5: a outfit, right, so I always try to be like, okay,

725
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 5: but like, what would they dress like in this situation

726
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 5: or that situation? To be honest, I think that is

727
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 5: like an effect of coming from phantom fan friction and

728
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 5: like fan art. Just I think that that's just like

729
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 5: a world that is so indulgent and playful that it

730
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 5: just I can't not do that with my with with

731
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 5: my with any character that I draw. But that said, though,

732
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 5: so when it got to having to figure out what

733
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 5: all the the lowest cast was going to, where I

734
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 5: did enlist two u gen z ers just because I

735
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, what what are some of it, because

736
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 5: I was like, I don't you know, I just to

737
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 5: make sure that it was like, because I think I'm

738
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 5: getting into that stage of my like life where I'm

739
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 5: dressing a little aunty. So I got so I got

740
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 5: to to gen Z friends of mine basically or to

741
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 5: to help me with the mood boards, where I would

742
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 5: just I would pick and choose some things myself, I

743
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 5: would direct, I would direct them, and then they would

744
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 5: sort of like help me extrapolate on like what else

745
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 5: these characters might wear. And that especially helped with the

746
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 5: fact that there's such a large cast and Sarah was

747
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 5: very very distinct and describing who each character was, even

748
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 5: if they were just like a side character. And I

749
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 5: think it was just like helpful to divide and conquer

750
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 5: a bit on getting at least the research done. I

751
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 5: always think that comics, at least for me, it's it's

752
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 5: always been like a team sport where I yeah, just

753
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: because on the visual side of drawing a comic, I'm

754
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 5: like the artist is responsible for quite a lot of things,

755
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 5: like drawing like the set, drawing like the character is,

756
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 5: the body language, thinking about the clothing. It's there's all

757
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 5: these like different things to think about and wherever I can,

758
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 5: like ask for help in these situations, I always try

759
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,959
Speaker 5: to ask for help, and so I think my two

760
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 5: fashion assistants, Jane Marie Garcia and Elinda Show, they definitely

761
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 5: both helped in capturing the language of the fashion. And

762
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 5: then from there it was easy for me to sort

763
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 5: of be like, Okay, these are the references. How can

764
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 5: I extrapolate this further? How can I maybe like cartoon

765
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 5: it up a bit? And honestly, yeah, I'm obsessed with

766
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 5: every outfit and I think I would I would wear

767
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 5: all of it basically. Yeah.

768
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. And it was funny because whenever Sarah Miller, the editor,

769
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 4: and I would get like new pages, we would be like, wait,

770
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 4: do I need a break? Like do I need a

771
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 4: Letterman jacket? Like everything, Like I feel like I need

772
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 4: this outfit now, and it's unfair that it doesn't exist

773
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 4: in real life, like we were so in to like

774
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 4: go buy things for ourselves even though we're not. Oh yeah,

775
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 4: that's very inspiring.

776
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 5: Oh Man berets and Letterman jackets. Yeah that well. I

777
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 5: think for me, I'll always sneak in a Letterman jacket,

778
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 5: and I'll always sneak in a beret. I'm always like

779
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 5: every you know what, that character needs a jacket with

780
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 5: a patch that indicates some on it.

781
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna be like, I've definitely seen

782
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: an Avatar Crew fan by you someone m jacket.

783
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm sure that this.

784
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 2: Is everyone different power.

785
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:46,800
Speaker 5: Of course.

786
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: One of the reasons, like I've been super stoked to

787
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: have you on the show is like, this is the

788
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: eighty fifth anniversary of Lewis Lane and Superman. Sure, but

789
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 2: like Lowis Lane too, and a book actually came out

790
00:48:59,360 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: on that of.

791
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 3: Which I thought was really lovely. Sarah, are stuff with you?

792
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: Like why do you what do you think it is

793
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: about Lois Lane? And you know, to a lat apart

794
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: if you want to about Clark or Superman, but like,

795
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: what do you think it is about Lois that's made

796
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: her resonate for so long that you can have a

797
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 2: graphic novel for young readers created by people like us

798
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: our age who loved this stuff, but who weren't even

799
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: the first audience for it.

800
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there is something about her that is

801
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 4: both like compelling, like very specific, but also timeless. She's

802
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 4: a character that is a bit elastic in a different

803
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 4: in different ways because you can sort of make her

804
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 4: fit different scenarios, different time periods, but she always feels

805
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 4: like Lois, and I think that was something that we

806
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 4: really tried to drill down on, like what is that

807
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 4: you know, how can we make sure this is definitely Lois?

808
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 4: And you know, like I said, like my first like

809
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 4: falling in love with Lois moment was really those Christopher

810
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 4: Eves Superman movies. I just thought Margot Kidder would so amazing,

811
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 4: Like she was really the one that I zeroed in,

812
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 4: not like Superman was fine, but she was told that.

813
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 4: I was like, this movie is like all about this person.

814
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 4: She is the main character. We are discovering Superman through

815
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 4: her eyes because she's, you know, the human. She's kind

816
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 4: of like the audience's way in. And I just always

817
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 4: loved that she was so tough and so outspoken and

818
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 4: she would never allow herself to be the sidekick or

819
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 4: the sort of girlfriend or the love and like I

820
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 4: think with some stories like that, with you know, superheroes

821
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 4: or these sort of larger than life franchises where maybe

822
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 4: it was about a man and the man had a

823
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 4: love interest or a girlfriend or whatever, a lot of

824
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 4: times that character was kind of a throwaway. She was

825
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 4: just very pretty and like complimented everything he did and

826
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 4: thought he was so amazing, and you know, was very

827
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 4: sort of blank slate accessible, and Lois was the opposite.

828
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 4: She was very outspoken, she was very ambitious, She cared

829
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 4: about getting the truth. She would sort of go after

830
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 4: something and never give up. She was extremely tenacious. She

831
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 4: would take up space, she would really not allow herself

832
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,479
Speaker 4: to be pushed to the side. And I think that's

833
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 4: something that probably appeals to a lot of us. I

834
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 4: think to a lot of us. I know that's something

835
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 4: that appeals to writers because I think when you're writing something,

836
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 4: you're trying to get to a truth, whether it's an

837
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 4: emotional truth, whether it's a narrative truth, whether it's a

838
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 4: truth that exists just for that character, like whatever it is,

839
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 4: you're always trying to find a truth and kind of

840
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 4: unearth that and being that out to whoever is reading

841
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 4: your story. So Lois, I think, for me, has always

842
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 4: been very powerful. You know, the moment I have talked

843
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 4: about a few times in interviews is the end of

844
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 4: Superman two, where the whole you know, the whole movie.

845
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 4: She's been on this kick where she wants this fridge

846
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 4: squeeze orange.

847
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 3: Juice to be healthy, and.

848
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 4: She basically orders Clark to go get her hamburger with

849
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 4: everything on it and the fresh peeze orange juice. And

850
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 4: it's like nine in the morning and she's like, yeah,

851
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 4: I know, go go do that for me. And I

852
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 4: was like, oh my god, Like, this is this my goal?

853
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 4: This is my goals, Like this is like what I

854
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 4: want my future to look like. And so I think

855
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 4: there is just something about her that again is so specific,

856
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 4: but can also be morphed to different time periods and

857
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 4: different ages and different settings. And so it is the

858
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 4: biggest compliment, I think, to both of us when someone

859
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 4: is like, you know, this field, this is Lois Lane.

860
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 4: This is not like a Loess Lane we've seen before,

861
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 4: But there is something about her at her core that

862
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 4: she is undeniably Lois Lane.

863
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: To that end, I think one of the most surprising

864
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: things about this. But for me, as a person who

865
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: came up through digital media and journalism, Rosie the same

866
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: is the way it prepares the young readers of today.

867
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: So the realities of digital media through Lois's adventure out

868
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: to National City and arrival at the office of Katco,

869
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: only to discover that Katco has been gobbled up by

870
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: some large media conglomoration and her hero has been jettison

871
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 1: and now she's got to figure it out. I mean, listen,

872
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: that is that is a reality that everyone who's ever

873
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: worked at digital media has faced edit at some point

874
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: in time. And talk to us, Sarah about bringing that

875
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: to the page, making that part of the story.

876
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm glad that you could feel seen and

877
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 4: hopefully not to and I'm also glad it came up.

878
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 4: As I mean, I you know, my background is I

879
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 4: was a journalist. I was my own little Lois Lane

880
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 4: like I you know, I did that for a long time.

881
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 4: That's what I did in college, That's what I did

882
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 4: after college. I had several media jobs after college that

883
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 4: I did full time before I became a freelancer and

884
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 4: then eventually the novels comic writer and all that. And

885
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 4: so I have a great deal of affection for that world.

886
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 4: And when I was kind of starting out in journalism,

887
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,439
Speaker 4: it was sort of I guess the what web one

888
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 4: point zero see but very very quick bus. But I

889
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 4: worked in that environment for a while and I think

890
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 4: I got you know, that sort of sense of like

891
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 4: when I think when I was a kid, I had

892
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 4: sort of imagined it as like, oh, you get this

893
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 4: one job. And I remember, like I loved a Sassin Maxine.

894
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 4: Sasi magazine at the time was sort of like it

895
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,720
Speaker 4: was like the bible for some of the alternative teenage

896
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 4: girl who wanted to be outspoken and you know, was

897
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 4: into like riot girls and zines and kind of all

898
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 4: the things that Lois ends up being into. And so

899
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 4: I think I had this fantasy you of like, oh, yeah,

900
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 4: you get a job at like a sassy magazine at

901
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 4: like the entry level, and then you just stay there

902
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 4: forever and then you live this like amazing glamorous life

903
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 4: in like New York City or San Francisco or LA

904
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 4: or like some amazing metropolis where you know, every day

905
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 4: is just like you having these like I don't know,

906
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 4: and you can pay and I guess like eating muffins

907
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 4: and having health and like, you know, and so like

908
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 4: when I actually started working in media, I think then,

909
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 4: and to be clear, I loved everything. I think, like

910
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 4: they were all they were all honestly awesome. Like I

911
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 4: had such a good time. I made great friends. I

912
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 4: still have fans from like my journalism days, who have

913
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 4: followed me into this second career, and so I think, like,

914
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 4: you know, that was something that I thought would be

915
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 4: kind of fun to where with leis that like she

916
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,439
Speaker 4: has this kind of idealized version. She knows what she wants,

917
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 4: She's going to go after it at all hosts, but

918
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 4: her vision of that is so specific and so kind

919
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 4: of glamorized and so not exactly based in reality. You know,

920
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 4: I think she also has this idea if I just

921
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 4: worked hard enough as bemoan over and over and over

922
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 4: again in a very fair and equitable way. And you know,

923
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 4: I think we probably all have that moment where we

924
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 4: realized that the job that we love may not love

925
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 4: back to the same degree, or that or if even

926
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 4: if we love the job, the corporation may not love

927
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 4: you to the same degree. You know, so many things

928
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 4: can happen over the course of like even a year

929
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 4: of it, especially now it feels like the media landscape

930
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 4: is kind of the wild wag. So I thought that

931
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 4: was kind of also an important reality to reflect, and

932
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 4: I also kind of wanted to show that, Like, you know,

933
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 4: I think all of us also go through our own

934
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 4: story arc of realizing you know, as cheesy as it sounds,

935
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 4: the real power is you. The real power is your voice.

936
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 4: No corporation, no media job, no like newspaper, magazine or

937
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 4: whatever can give that to you. And especially now with

938
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 4: all of these avenues, to sort of get your voice

939
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 4: out there and your work out there yourself. I thought

940
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 4: that was something that was important for Lois to realize

941
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,479
Speaker 4: that the real power is her. It's not a job.

942
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 4: It's not a certain college, it's not a certain paper,

943
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 4: it's not a certain internship. It's really her voice that

944
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 4: she just needs to be brave enough to express. So yeah,

945
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 4: and again I'm glad that that resonated with people who

946
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 4: are working in media during these trying time.

947
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 2: I love that everyone can just like whenever they're having

948
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 2: a rough time, when they get laid off, they can

949
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 2: just come.

950
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 3: Back and listen to that speech you just gave and

951
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 3: be like, just got to make the zine mad.

952
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 4: I was laid up so many times during my media career, Like,

953
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 4: I was laid up so many times that I feel like,

954
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 4: you know, I certain I understand that I understand what

955
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 4: that's like. And you know, that was something I had

956
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 4: to realize too, that my power was not in a

957
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 4: platform someone else had given me, or a publication I

958
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 4: didn't create, or someone who had given me a job.

959
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 4: Those were all very nice things. But my true power

960
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 4: was like in my voice. And that's something that I

961
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 4: think everyone, I hope can realize for themselves eventually.

962
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: I love that.

963
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 2: And okay, so so more on a on a less

964
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: existentially relatable but also like terrifying level. So this is

965
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: obviously one of the the I love this line of

966
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: dcy graphic novels that Sarah is the brilliant edit air of.

967
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: Do you guys have like a dream sequel story you

968
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: would want to tell? Like Arielle, you're trying to put

969
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: a clock and a Lettmon jacket with a giant on

970
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: the back.

971
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 5: I would love to let Clark Kent in a Letterman jacket.

972
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 4: See.

973
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 5: The thing is though, Okay, I've told Sarah my dream

974
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 5: is like a Himbo Superman situation. Here's the thing though, Like,

975
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 5: since since the book has come out, another thing has

976
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 5: come out, which I'm like, whoa, which is my adventures

977
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 5: with Superman on HBO? Oh wait, sorry Max? And first

978
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 5: I always whenever I see it, I'm like, oh my god,

979
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 5: my Adventures with Superman Lois and the girl taking over

980
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 5: Lois like they're they are shaking hands, like they are

981
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 5: like the meum of like because you yes, they are

982
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 5: like very And I think that that speaks to what

983
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 5: you were saying, Sarah, that like Lois is Lois in

984
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 5: what like when a writer or like when a team

985
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 5: gets Lois right, you will sense that it is Lois

986
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 5: and are there's there's definitely something right about my adventures

987
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 5: with Superman Lois. That said, if we could do a

988
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 5: graphic novel that is about are our Lois meeting Clark,

989
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 5: meeting Clark and basically Clark just following her around and

990
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 5: being like, oh yes, miss Lane, let me help you

991
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 5: with that. I would love that.

992
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 3: My Like, while while.

993
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:46,959
Speaker 5: Lois is off its chasing some like groundbreaking story and

994
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 5: Clark just like assists her. I would love that. That

995
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 5: would be great. That would be the story that Yeah.

996
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 4: Ariel kept saying Himbo Superman like Himbo partas and that

997
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 4: was something I just feel like she we need to

998
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 4: see from her, like we need to see her version

999
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 4: of that, I think definitely. But yeah, I mean, obviously

1000
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 4: we had so much fun working on this book. We

1001
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 4: love Sarah Miller, our editor, We love the whole team.

1002
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 4: We would love you as some kind of you know,

1003
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 4: follow up at some point. We had a lot of ideas,

1004
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 4: but definitely Himbo park heet coming up whenever we were

1005
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 4: doing interviews.

1006
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 1: Sarah and Ariel, thank you so much for joining us.

1007
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: Looks wonderful.

1008
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you.

1009
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 2: Sarah Narrio. Up next, Nudout Ye in today's Nutout, will

1010
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 2: you tell us what you love them? Why, a theory

1011
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: you're excited to share, or a quick question we can answer.

1012
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: Ashley pitches us on the twenty twenty three film Namona,

1013
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 2: based on the beloved groundbreaking comic by Endy Stephen.

1014
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 4: Hi, Jason, and Rosie.

1015
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 6: This is ash longtime listener, I wanted to send a

1016
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 6: nerd out suggestion request beg you guys to talk about

1017
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 6: this amazing comic and now movie Pneumona by nd Stevenson.

1018
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: It is so refreshing.

1019
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 6: It has amazing music, incredible animation, great voice acting. It

1020
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 6: is on Netflix, and it is such an amazing allegory

1021
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 6: about gender and about being an outsider and about learning

1022
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 6: to question the world around us and find our place

1023
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 6: in it and accept who we are and the people

1024
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 6: around us. As someone who's been going through the genderfuckery

1025
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 6: on my own, it was amazing to see the story.

1026
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 6: And as someone who has a seven year old she

1027
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 6: was able to watch this and was just entranced with

1028
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 6: every moment of it, and it was truly such an amazing,

1029
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 6: amazing experience. And I really hope that more people see

1030
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 6: this and talk about this and just oh, it was

1031
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 6: so good.

1032
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for all that you guys do.

1033
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 3: Thanks Ashley.

1034
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: If you have theories, passions, or quick questions you want

1035
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: to share, hit us up at extra atcrookad dot com.

1036
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: Instructions as always, are in the show notes.

1037
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: Thanks to Sarah and Ariel for joining us. And that's

1038
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 1: it for us. Rosie, any plugs.

1039
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 2: You can still just read my IgM piece we have got.

1040
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm saying this.

1041
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: I really agree.

1042
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 3: I don't read the comments, but the oral history of.

1043
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 2: The boom and Bust of comics on IGN, actually I have.

1044
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 3: It has been reported to me by multiple places that it.

1045
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: Has very positive comments of just people being excited to

1046
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 2: remember this era in their life.

1047
01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 3: So I think if the piece.

1048
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: Can make a comment section happy, then it's a good piece.

1049
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 2: So I'm feeling very happy.

1050
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: About that.

1051
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: I'm very proud about it. So just go and read

1052
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: it and listen to some comic legends saying some hilarious things.

1053
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode of x ray Vision Wednesday, August sixteenth.

1054
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 2: Until then, you can watch full episodes of the podcast

1055
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: on YouTube. You can also check us out on Twitter

1056
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: at xov pod and join our discord hang out with

1057
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: lots of core fans.

1058
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five started, we got out of you

1059
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: gotta give this. Here's one from track man. I'm a

1060
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: track man, best pop culture podcast out there. Wow, Thank

1061
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: you Josey. A really delightful combo, a ridiculous amount of

1062
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: pop culture knowledge. I relish their comics recommendations, and I

1063
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: appreciate their insightful post to breaking down shows and movies.

1064
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 3: Thank you trackmen, appreciate it.

1065
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: Before we go, I wanted to share some news about

1066
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: xtra Vision. After two wonderful years making pods and digital

1067
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: series here at Trick Media, we are taking extra vision independent.

1068
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: Making this show has been such a delight. Connecting with

1069
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: the audience talking about the stuff we love has been

1070
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful pleasure. I'm sure you want to know

1071
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: what this means for the pod. We're going to find

1072
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: a home for it, and because of certain business things

1073
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: that you don't need to worry about, you're not gonna

1074
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: need to subscribe to a new pod. Once we get

1075
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: that home for the pod, which should be shortly hopefully Knockwood,

1076
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: all you're gonna have to do is check your feed

1077
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: and I'll pop up. You'll also get messages from Rosie

1078
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: and I about when that will happen. More information on

1079
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: our final show, which will be next Wednesday. Xtra Vision

1080
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by

1081
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: Chris Lord and Saul Rubin and executive produced by me

1082
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 1: Jason Sepsio and our editing and sound design is by

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Speaker 1: Facilis Patopoulos. Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gayeski.

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Speaker 1: Social media by Awa Oklati and Caroline Dunfie. Thank you

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Speaker 1: to Brian Basquez for our theme to today,