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Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, I'm Melissa Albranch.

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Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the time I kissed

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Speaker 1: at Jehovah's witness, the first times that we both got high,

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Speaker 1: the latest stage shooting from Trump, Trump's unhinged sixty minute interview.

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Speaker 1: He did not fall. We predict Cash Betel's downfall. We

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Speaker 1: got a full Weeji board out for that one. We

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Speaker 1: share why we lie to our doctors. Actually, no, we don't,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to keep doing it. And then we're

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Speaker 1: going to interview Emily Galvin l Manza about the criminal

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Speaker 1: justice system. And I'm going to answer all your burning

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Speaker 1: questions from the DM So stick around. But I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: I'm getting used to double breasted. How to button it

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Speaker 1: and unbuttoned?

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Speaker 2: Is it difficult?

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Speaker 1: No, it's not difficult, It's just different. I do a

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Speaker 1: lot of self unconscious What is it? Yeah, unconscious unbuttoning

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Speaker 1: when I'm like standing and sitting. I'm used to it

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Speaker 1: being here, but it's over here now and I have

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Speaker 1: to adjust. It's like a thing. It's like how your

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Speaker 1: glasses are on your head and not your face. You

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Speaker 1: like get used to that, do.

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Speaker 2: You have a good rest of the week.

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Speaker 1: No, no, really, what led you to believe I would

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Speaker 1: have a good week?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. It was your birthday week,

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Speaker 2: it was our birthday.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, it was our birthday week. How

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Speaker 1: is yours good?

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Speaker 2: I spent a good portion of the day by myself,

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Speaker 2: which is what I like.

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Speaker 1: I love being alone, so do I.

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Speaker 2: I had a really good day. I had a massage,

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Speaker 2: a facial, a manicurein a petticure, all of which alone,

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Speaker 2: and then I had a lovely dinner with my husband.

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Speaker 1: When you do it all at once like that, are

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Speaker 1: you like a queen where there's like a person working

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Speaker 1: on each TOUTSI.

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Speaker 2: No, you know what, because all the people that I

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Speaker 2: like are not in the same place. There is a

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Speaker 2: little bit of me hoof in it from one place

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Speaker 2: to another.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like that though, because sometimes, like the

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Speaker 1: good facial, we go to Rowena. I don't want Rowena

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Speaker 1: doing anything other than my facial.

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Speaker 2: Well, not just that, but Rowena is where she is.

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Speaker 2: She's a specialist. Right my massage therapist, Beryl shout out

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Speaker 2: to Beryl is where she is, and the manicure pedicure

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Speaker 2: place is where they are and they're not together.

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Speaker 1: I got a massage. It was definitely like underground, illegal, unlicensed.

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Speaker 2: It's good though.

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Speaker 1: It was so good. Yeah, I don't know the name.

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Speaker 2: How will you go back?

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Speaker 1: I probably won't. It was like Brigadoon, where like every

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Speaker 1: fifty years the town appears. It's like where I go

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Speaker 1: and I'll never be able to find that massage again.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that man's not there anymore. And it was

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Speaker 1: just incredible, and you know there's actually I think it's

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Speaker 1: even better because I know I'll never have it again,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Really, I wish that I could get a massage every week.

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Speaker 2: I can't, but I wish that I could. I have

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Speaker 2: like weird like neck things.

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Speaker 1: I like go through faces like once I get when,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that was incredible. I should be doing that more.

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Speaker 1: And then I forget that it's an option.

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Speaker 2: No, I will never forget. I will never forget about

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Speaker 2: these are Life's life is shitty, Michael. Everything is fucked up.

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Speaker 2: I've gotten everything is terrible. What's my mom saying about

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Speaker 2: the church? That time?

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Speaker 1: Oh? When was burning? I called? I was with Melissa

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Speaker 1: when we found out Notre Dame's on fire and we

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Speaker 1: called Melissa's mother together.

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Speaker 2: Like everything is burning and nothing show.

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Speaker 1: Can you more dramatic? This is sidebar. This is all

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Speaker 1: the weird, wild things going on in our lives and

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Speaker 1: our personal lives.

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Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time with my family this weekend.

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Speaker 2: My cousin Valerie is having a baby, and we went

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Speaker 2: to her baby shower, and I spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: time with my mom and my uncle like so her brother.

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Speaker 1: Yea.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time I was just like looking at

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Speaker 2: them like this and just like laughing.

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Speaker 1: Because they're like click and clack the top of brothers.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and they're like, so they're so clearly brother and sister.

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Speaker 2: That's me and my sister that it's so funny to me.

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Speaker 2: I always say, if I had hairshet pull it like

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Speaker 2: we're just we're just like a hair pulling brother and

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Speaker 2: sister in the backseat. Oh yeah, did you guys fight

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Speaker 2: a lot? Oh my god, yeah, what's the age difference?

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Speaker 1: Two years?

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Speaker 2: See, my brother and I didn't fight at all because

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Speaker 2: he was a baby, Like we were eleven years apart.

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Speaker 2: It would have been weird. Oh way, do you know

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Speaker 2: what any.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would that would have been weird. What's wrong

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Speaker 1: with you? Why are you fighting with a toddler?

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Speaker 2: Brothers years we had like nothing. Yeah, he was like

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Speaker 2: my pet. I just kind of took him everywhere.

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Speaker 1: That's so cute though. Yeah, I remember my sister got

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Speaker 1: me high when I was like fifteen. We were driving

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Speaker 1: around with I.

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Speaker 2: Don't understand these stories. These sometimes you say things to

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Speaker 2: me that are so unrelatable. They're so unrelatable. I don't

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Speaker 2: like this. Oh, when I was fifteen, I got hot.

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Speaker 2: Where are the drugs from? Where are the drugs?

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Speaker 1: My sister's boyfriend, he was a Jehovah witness, he was,

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Speaker 1: and it got me high. He also kissed me once, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so we got in a fight over him. But

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Speaker 1: he got me really high in the back seat. And

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Speaker 1: it's one of these things where, like a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: the first porn they ever see is like the weirdest

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Speaker 1: porn they'll ever see. It's like the first time I

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Speaker 1: got high, it was like the weirdest situation.

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Speaker 2: The first porn. Most people, the first porn that they've

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Speaker 2: ever seen is the weirdest porn.

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Speaker 1: Usually. I have a theory, like if someone was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is the first porn I saw. It's usually like

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Speaker 1: the weirdest shit, and then the rest of your life

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Speaker 1: you see like relatively normal porn. But anyway, I think this,

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Speaker 1: I know, I put that out there as a theory.

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Speaker 1: I've yet to prove it. This is a hypothesis. This

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Speaker 1: is what science is about, right, And so we put

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Speaker 1: up the hypothesis.

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Speaker 2: Was it like a theory like my hug theory?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like your three kinds of hugs. It's like that.

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Speaker 1: That is mine. But I will say I want to

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Speaker 1: extend it to the first time you smoked pot. I

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Speaker 1: feel like every other time after that probably was a

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Speaker 1: more normal situation than what you experienced the first time.

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Speaker 2: How old were you the first time you smoked pot?

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Speaker 1: It was in the backstat of that car with the guys.

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Speaker 2: I was how old I was the first time I

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Speaker 2: tried pot? Yes, yes, just guess.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. In your twenties twenty one, nineteen thirty,

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Speaker 1: forty thirty four, Melissa, maybe, oh my god, I was

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Speaker 1: a grown as some Mormon shit. That is some no call.

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Speaker 2: But again it is because it is not because I

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Speaker 2: was afraid or I thought anything was bad. I was

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Speaker 2: simply not interested.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying I thought you were

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Speaker 1: going to say sheltered like you weren't, like, but you

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Speaker 1: were out in these streets.

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Speaker 2: I was out in these streets doing stuff. But I

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Speaker 2: was so uninterested. I was like, why would you do that?

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you what?

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Speaker 2: When there's food?

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you what he did when he smoked

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Speaker 1: pot with me? For this is a firm fifteen. I

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Speaker 1: think you must have been like a couple of years

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Speaker 1: older than me in high school.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay.

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Speaker 1: And he took the joint and after it was all

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Speaker 1: the way down to like a little the little nub,

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Speaker 1: the little nub, and it was just like a rolled

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Speaker 1: paper joint. He went sucked on it really hard. It's

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Speaker 1: still lit. Inhaled it and swallowed it the thing the

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Speaker 1: roach ate it ate it, sucked on it so hard.

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Speaker 2: These are experiences that I cannot.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't, And it was the for me. I

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Speaker 1: was like, that is the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: And it's still the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: Did it make you feel like you should be doing

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Speaker 2: that or were you like, no, this is I was like,

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Speaker 2: that can't be part of it. Oh okay, there's no

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Speaker 2: way that is how it's supposed to go. Is that

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Speaker 2: the thing that can't be the thing?

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Speaker 1: I think that's how you're supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: That's not how this goes. That's how any of this goes.

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Speaker 1: This is your algorithm is showing. These are all the weird,

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Speaker 1: wild things happening in our beads on all of social media.

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Speaker 1: We had another fake shooting this week. Are you ready

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Speaker 1: to cover it? There's another stage shooting, another fake attempted

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Speaker 1: fascination of the president. So I figured we'd cover it.

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Speaker 1: We actually just copy and pasted from the last two

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Speaker 1: times we covered the stage shooting.

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Speaker 2: So nothing new to see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was at the White House Correspondence and

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Speaker 1: it's the first time he's attended it. So put your

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Speaker 1: pen down, pens down, pencils down, heads up.

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Speaker 2: I think when I first, you're telling me about how

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Speaker 2: you felt. But when I heard that he was going

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Speaker 2: to do this the dinner, I was just like, that's

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Speaker 2: weird because he.

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Speaker 1: Hates these people, these people, I hate these dinners.

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Speaker 2: He hates these dinners. And I think the one time

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Speaker 2: that he did go, he got mad, he got roasted.

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Speaker 2: Because that's the point of the thing, right, Obviously, we

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Speaker 2: all know about your credentials and breadth.

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Speaker 3: Of experience, and he got really pissed off, really upset.

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Speaker 3: He got butt hurt over it and decided that he

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Speaker 3: was never going to do this again.

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Speaker 2: And then I was just like, why is he doing

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Speaker 2: this now?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I was thinking to myself, is it because his

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Speaker 2: numbers are in the toilet?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 2: What what is this? Because with this president, I feel like,

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Speaker 2: more than any other, it's never just to do the thing.

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Speaker 2: There's a reason behind it.

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Speaker 1: Thirty three percent his approval rating right now, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's really bad. All the independence are Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I was just like, this feels wrong. And then

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: You called it You've got some I mean, no, witch.

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Speaker 2: No, it isn't. No, it isn't. It is just logical.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? There's nothing special about this.

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Speaker 1: It's just like one inferential leap. It was like a

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Speaker 1: small critical thinking.

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Speaker 2: But Michael, I get so I'm so annoyed. I'm so

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Speaker 2: irritated that this whole thing because I just knew that

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Speaker 2: something was going to happen, and not because I'm so intuitive,

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Speaker 2: but because.

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Speaker 1: He's never been right. He's gone It's like.

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Speaker 2: What is he after? What is he really after?

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Speaker 1: Is he going to say something? Is there going to

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Speaker 1: be a yeah, sho, sure enough? Not showing up. Did

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Speaker 1: you see the guy who kept eating?

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Speaker 2: I didn't see there's this guy.

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Speaker 1: That would have been me, that would have been just sho.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The chicken Milans is really good Chicka Pats,

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Speaker 1: Chicken Pocatto or chicken franchise at those.

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Speaker 2: Days, with some chicken with the with the green beans

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Speaker 2: with the almonds on it, almondine, so kind of a rice.

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Speaker 1: Just kept gobbling down the journalist he kept eating. He

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Speaker 1: was like, ain't no way, ain't no thing but a

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Speaker 1: chicken wing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like, the whole thing was so ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was so stage as a photo millennia

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Speaker 1: like this, and Trump's like.

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Speaker 2: But my favorite though, one of my favorite things of

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Speaker 2: the whole thing is then picking up JD. Vans by

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Speaker 2: the back of the jacket and dragging him out like and.

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Speaker 1: They were dragging him out like he's an fighter, like.

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Speaker 2: He was going to like like let me at let me.

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Speaker 1: We know about JD is that he's always at fisticuffs

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Speaker 1: Like this is like he's a he's a w w

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Speaker 1: F fighter is going to laplancha someone with a folding chair. No,

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Speaker 1: like he's he's shad events. We've got like a bloated

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Speaker 1: face meme of him, like that's what he's not. He's

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Speaker 1: known for fucking a sofa and that meme, Like that's it.

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Speaker 1: All he's done is blown out a lazy boy and

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Speaker 1: that one meme. He's not known for fighting? Why you

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Speaker 1: have to drag him out of there, like he's like

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Speaker 1: he's precious cargo.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think you got to drag him

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Speaker 2: out of there because he has no survival instincts, right,

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Speaker 2: he has no survival and he would just be out

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Speaker 2: there like a fish out.

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Speaker 3: Of the water, just flailing around, not doing anything, no

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Speaker 3: survival instincts.

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Speaker 1: He's procreating with furniture. He's not actually even trying to

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Speaker 1: like start a legacy. And did you hear he's still

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Speaker 1: It's two days later, he's still in the stairwell where

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Speaker 1: they left him. They haven't even gotten it. They haven't

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Speaker 1: even retrieved him.

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Speaker 2: Shaking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still waiting. Someone's got to go get him.

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Speaker 2: Someone's gonna be one, but nobody wants to. They're all

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Speaker 2: drawing straw and nobody wants to do it. Do you

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Speaker 2: know you might be too young for this? But do

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Speaker 2: you know who Benny Hill is? Okay? So Benny Hill

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Speaker 2: was this pretty famous British comedian. He had a show

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Speaker 2: called The Benny Hill Show and it's like known for

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Speaker 2: being kind of body slapsticky. But sometimes he would have

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Speaker 2: these skits where he would speed up the tape or

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Speaker 2: whatever and there was this weird music that would go.

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Speaker 2: It was like, do right, somebody set I guess a

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Speaker 2: stucred service running around to that music?

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Speaker 1: Really funny.

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Speaker 2: Should I've ever fucking seen I'm gonna find it because

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Speaker 2: it so funny. It's because it just feels like, what

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Speaker 2: do these guys do?

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Speaker 1: One video, they were like they were having RFK like

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Speaker 1: climb over a table and all of these and it's like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way that was the fastest way out of there.

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Speaker 1: They had him like walking diagonally over a table.

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Speaker 2: But is it to sort of like be a constant

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Speaker 2: moving target so you can't get him if I'm bobbing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the table it's the cake topper.

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Speaker 2: It's like Trump's absolutely on his interview with the next day.

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Speaker 1: The next day, I'm like did they book the interview

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Speaker 1: before the shooting, like they knew it was or no, just.

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Speaker 2: Trying to do her job, and she's all wide. She

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Speaker 2: was just like when he goes and he's like, you're disgraceful,

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Speaker 2: she's like, so okay.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay. So just for context from people who haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it, He's sit down the.

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Speaker 2: Next day with sixty minutes Nora o'donald, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 2: You know something pop the last week too.

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Speaker 1: It's sorry, now.

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Speaker 2: You want to check your arms. You're so uncouth.

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Speaker 1: True, it's my fake sneeze. I'm so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: My face is way yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: He just spit on everyone. So he does this in

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Speaker 1: interview the next day, which it's like again, it was

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Speaker 1: so they were so ready for everything. He's like, camera ready.

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Speaker 1: It's so obviously this has been planned out by like

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Speaker 1: a PR crisis.

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Speaker 2: I mean, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: If anyone has any doubts about how I feel about

303
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Speaker 1: the situation, I personally believe this was planned and fake.

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Speaker 1: And it's amazing that every single shooter in American history

305
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Speaker 1: doesn't miss, except for the three times Trump's approval ratings

306
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Speaker 1: around the toilet that is like, I'm sorry for me

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Speaker 1: once for me twice, that is a shame on if

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Speaker 1: you think this was really, I think it's a shame

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Speaker 1: on you.

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Speaker 2: Mo. I mean I think again, I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people the minute that they heard about this, I

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Speaker 2: was like, I called bullshit on this.

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Speaker 1: I called bullshit. I'm sorry every single time.

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Speaker 2: Again, like I said, when I heard that he was

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Speaker 2: doing it, I was just like, there's no.

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Speaker 1: Way, There's no way. I didn't even pause. We were

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Speaker 1: watching a movie. I didn't even pause that. I just

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Speaker 1: like I texted. I texted a friends and I was

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Speaker 1: like another one. She was like, yeah, okay, what do

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Speaker 1: you it was? Has anyone seen the New Spider Man? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Of the dark, but a new lipstick? Like that's again,

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Speaker 2: that's like, that's what color red. I leaned towards reds.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy a good red.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have like a preferred Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right now, my favorite red happens to be the Finisha. No,

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Speaker 2: that's a good color color. I would wear that vicious.

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Speaker 1: I want to do like a line of makeup and

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Speaker 1: now polish colors that have names like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was I can't remember who it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a rapid dog bite.

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Speaker 2: No, there was like a like a rapturess. I can't

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Speaker 2: remember what her name was, but she had no I

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Speaker 2: don't know, but she had a line, a makeup line,

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Speaker 2: and all the names of the products were like disgusting.

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Speaker 2: One was like vaginal discharge or something like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, so he had to sit down interview with

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Speaker 1: Nora and just really tore into her about how she's disgraceful.

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Speaker 2: Well it starts out okay, right where, and you know,

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Speaker 2: just it's and it is Trump being Trump, sort of

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Speaker 2: like going off and rambling and saying whatever. And she

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00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 2: asks him some normal questions and she was like, were

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Speaker 2: you afraid? Yeah, no, I wasn't afraid. I wasn't afraid.

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Speaker 2: And she looked because the first lady, well yeah, but

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Speaker 2: she knew that I was there. You're the least helpful

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Speaker 2: person on the planet, sir.

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Speaker 1: He fell asleep during a press conference last week.

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Speaker 2: And then so she goes on and she's reading this

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Speaker 2: guy's manifesto and she's reading it Trump but like, looking

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Speaker 2: at her, he's like.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'll do this interview and they'll probably read

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Speaker 4: the manifesto. You know, it's a sick person, but you

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Speaker 4: should be ashamed of yourself reading there because I'm not

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Speaker 4: any of those things. Excuse me. You shouldn't be reading

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Speaker 4: that in sixty minutes. You're a disgrace. But go ahead,

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Speaker 4: let's finish the interview.

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Speaker 2: She's like, oh, okay, it's the manifesto. I didn't I

357
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,719
Speaker 2: didn't write this, mister president. I didn't write like and

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Speaker 2: he's just.

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Speaker 1: Like she doesn't even like bite, yeah, she doesn't.

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Speaker 2: She's like, okay, I mean she's a professor, goes on

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00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 2: and she's trying, you know, but this is his manifesto, sir.

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Speaker 2: He's like, you're disgusting.

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Speaker 1: She's like okay, all right, yeah, yeah, all right, well yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know to feel like it is one of those

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Speaker 1: I have moments like that sometimes in court or with

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Speaker 1: clients where they're tearing into me or with other lawyers.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so dead air is what you kind

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Speaker 1: of got. Yeah, like that's it, Yeah, Like that's it right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like if someone isn't willing to engage in

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Speaker 1: and then this is like so far beyond this interview, right,

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Speaker 1: But like, if someone's not willing to engage with you

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Speaker 1: and any sort of conversation, it's just a waste of

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Speaker 1: your breath. So why do we bother not saying this

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00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 1: about you know, the sit down interview, do your thing,

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Speaker 1: sixty minutes like sell the odd time. But for me,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, if someone's not willing to actually talk to me,

378
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 1: I've got to other people I'd rather much rather spend

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00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:15,159
Speaker 1: that time talking to.

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Speaker 2: But they needed to do this, right, of course, they

381
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,120
Speaker 2: needed to do this. I was just thinking, I'm actually

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Speaker 2: really surprised that he opted to do this with sixty

383
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Speaker 2: minutes as opposed to.

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Speaker 1: Fox, Like that was surprising, you know what I mean,

385
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Speaker 1: Like like.

386
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Speaker 2: This, if this is what you're going to do, and

387
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 2: there's a narrative you're trying to spin it to be

388
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 2: a certain way, go where they're friendlier to you, Yes, yes, right,

389
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 2: go where they love you.

390
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: Yes. And I think that Fox has been pretty critical

391
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 1: and what they've been I've been noticing it. Last week

392
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Speaker 1: before the shooting, Yeah, stage shooting, they were they were

393
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Speaker 1: pretty they've been pretty like hard on him and the

394
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Speaker 1: New York Post as well. I've been noticing just I'm

395
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: noticing the shift how like the Republican Party is kind

396
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 1: of like cut their losses and they're like, let's just

397
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: distance ourselves as much as we can from this. We've

398
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 1: got Cash Battel doing body shots like in ice luges,

399
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: and like, what are we?

400
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 5: Like?

401
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,360
Speaker 1: What is We've got?

402
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 2: The been a more useless man? Has there ever been

403
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,479
Speaker 2: a more useless man than Cash Btel?

404
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's like, what good are you?

405
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 2: What good are you?

406
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 4: Like?

407
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 2: I wonder if he looks at himself in the mirror

408
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 2: and he's just like, I fucking suck. They're the worst.

409
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 2: I'm the worst. I am useless and just sitting there flailing.

410
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: Like I really thought about this.

411
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 2: I mean, but it's like it's it's again. You know

412
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 2: what I really hate about these people. Let me tell you.

413
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 5: What I tell.

414
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: Is that this is what they bring out of me.

415
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 2: I am not this person. I don't kick people on

416
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 2: the fucking subway. I don't hate people with the one

417
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 2: going this is what I'm saying. This is not who

418
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 2: I am. But these people have heard too somebody that

419
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 2: I don't like.

420
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 1: Be the changer, don't want to see in the world.

421
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 2: And like it's too much.

422
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 1: Everything is burning, and.

423
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: Everything's burning and nothing shall remain.

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Speaker 1: There are all these photos of Cash after the shooting,

425
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: just looking confused on his phone like he was the

426
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,479
Speaker 1: last to get the memo that he got fired, the

427
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: last to find out about the shooting he was at.

428
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 2: He was at you see him with the best. The

429
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,679
Speaker 2: best is when. So afterwards, right, they go and they're

430
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 2: doing this news conference and everyone's there in their tuxes.

431
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 2: And if you look at Cash Betel behind the president,

432
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 2: look and shook, he's like he's coming down off of

433
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:55,360
Speaker 2: something like I can't blink, I'm coming down off the high.

434
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: It's true that comed out is really hard for some drugs,

435
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: so that is the crash out, a crash out Patel,

436
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: it is.

437
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 2: He's looking super scared, very nervous. It's like a little anxious.

438
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I was not ready to be on in a press

439
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: conference tonight that he was the last to find out

440
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: about his own stage shooting, and that is and he's

441
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 1: also the last to find out that he got fired.

442
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: Because I think it's gonna happen this week.

443
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: Think's gonna happen this week.

444
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: I think by the time this episode airs, he'll be gone.

445
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: So I'm going to look so I'm going to record

446
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 1: this as why why do you think that? Because they've

447
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: already soft launched the exit before the correspondence dinner.

448
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 2: Do you think that he's going to be really fired

449
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,239
Speaker 2: fired or do you think that he's going to be

450
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 2: re routed.

451
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: I like, I think he'll get fired, like like Christinome,

452
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: But she didn't.

453
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: Did she get fired? Fired? Did she get rerouted? So

454
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 2: fact checked me on that she's doing something else?

455
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: No, that's her husband's boobies. That's not what she's doing. Byron.

456
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 1: Byron's doing something else. She was fired, fired, fired, she

457
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 1: got fired. You're thinking Pambondy or is it Carolyn Lovit

458
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: is on maternity.

459
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,199
Speaker 2: No, No, she's still there. I saw her.

460
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: She's oh yes, but she's getting ready for it. And

461
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: they're saying that Trump might give the press conferences himself.

462
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 2: Now, oh that I would watch that. I would watch

463
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 2: just to watch the cluster, just the cluster, well.

464
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: Because all the journalists. I love it. They're all trying

465
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: to they're all trying to get there. You know, they're

466
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: two minutes of airtime, like, good for them.

467
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 2: He gets I think she's doing something else.

468
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 1: Christine Olmes, Yeah, I really do.

469
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: And I don't know why.

470
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 1: Get any comments if you know what Christine Home is doing.

471
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: It's just like the Haitian WhatsApp groups.

472
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 1: She's shooting dogs and hanging out with her husband. I

473
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: don't know.

474
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,479
Speaker 2: You know what my mother told me. We should call

475
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: my mother because she's the one who told me them

476
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 2: she has another job.

477
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: She got another job.

478
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: I swear to God again, I spent a lot of

479
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: time with my mom and getting all the misinformation from

480
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 2: like directly different from Magalie. There you go special on

481
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: voices the Shield of America. That's what I'm saying, isn't if.

482
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: Someone can tell me what that is, he doesn't.

483
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: I think he doesn't want to like fire fire her, okay,

484
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: and he wants to rerouted again. You're being put out

485
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 2: to pasture for sure, but it's not like you're on

486
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: the unemployment line. So that's what I'm saying. So do

487
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: you think that cash will be on the unemployment line

488
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 2: or will be rerouted somewhere? I don't know, That's what

489
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

490
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: Which one's worse? Do you think fired fired? I think

491
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: he's still got to like do stuff if he does.

492
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: But it's a way for him to feel like I'm

493
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: still here.

494
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Useful He'll be like and he'll be

495
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: throwing that title around to get free bottle service, which

496
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: is what he likes. Yeah, he'll be at every club

497
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: asking for the.

498
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 2: Table service, for table service, the good booths like a

499
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: thousand dollars bottles of crystal.

500
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: Anyway, this has been the craziest recording. I'm on so

501
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: many allergy medications.

502
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

503
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: I went to CBS.

504
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: It was locked up, wasn't It was hocked.

505
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: Up Monday at twelve pm. I go to CBS, Hey,

506
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: can I get the allergy medication with the decongestice.

507
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: It's always locked behind is with the pharmacist.

508
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: The pharmacist, They're like, oh, no, the pharmacy's closed.

509
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: What time was it.

510
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: Monday, in the middle of the day.

511
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so CBS, CBS. The pharmacy closes for lunch for

512
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: like thirty minutes or now.

513
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: I think I've been working my whole life. I don't

514
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: think I've ever been allowed to take lunch. I don't

515
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: think I've ever had a lunch break.

516
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, but CBSCBS does for sure.

517
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: I guess I'm not. I'm buying it once a year.

518
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: I don't really.

519
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 2: The allergy medication is always locked up and you have

520
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: to show ID and.

521
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: I asked for too, and he said you got to

522
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: come back tomorrow for the second one to what So

523
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: I left and came back a few hours later. Yeah,

524
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: and then I wanted two boxes, and he said, you

525
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: can't buy two at once. You have to buy them

526
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: a day apart. Because if you're.

527
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: Making the mess, Yeah.

528
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: You're making the mess one day at a time.

529
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: One day at a time.

530
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 1: You've got to make your small batch.

531
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: Homegrown, artisanal mess.

532
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: You can only make a small batch at a time.

533
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: That's a local brewery. Anyway, comment with your meth resci

534
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 1: people out.

535
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: Do not do that. Do not do that method is

536
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: bad for you.

537
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: Your body actually needs a little bit.

538
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: Do not listen to Michael everything in moderation. Michael is

539
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: a lawyer, he's not a doctor.

540
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, do you lie to your doctor?

541
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: Which doctor?

542
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Any of them? You lie to them?

543
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: I have I lie to my doctor. It depends on

544
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: what it is, though.

545
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's your job to figure out

546
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: if I'm lying. That should be party of you know

547
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: who I've lied to?

548
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: Which is really really.

549
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: That is my heart take, that's my fucked up take.

550
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 2: I've lied to my therapist.

551
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: Good for you.

552
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to get into it.

553
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: Do you need to does your therapist tell you anything

554
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: about your like their life occasionally. Really, yes, that's actually

555
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: they're not supposed to do that. I don't think.

556
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: I think I've had a few do that, and I

557
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: think they've been telling me about their life to let

558
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 2: me know that some feeling that I'm feeling is normal,

559
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean. Yeah, I saw old

560
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: therapists on the street the other day.

561
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: Really, it was weird. Did you just start crying?

562
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 4: No?

563
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 2: I didn't. I texted him later, I was like, I

564
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: saw you a grandson test I did, and he told

565
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: me he was on his way to his son's baseball game.

566
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: I texted the therapist once years later, just to let

567
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: her know that I had done something that I was

568
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: very afraid of that I worked with her on Okay,

569
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I just wanted to let

570
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, like I finally did that thing.

571
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: Was she proud of you?

572
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: A big one? I did my big one, and I

573
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: just wanted to let you know, like, hope you're well,

574
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: Like it wasn't like a hand let's talk.

575
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

576
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she wrote back because she was like, oh

577
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: my god, that's so great. I'm so happy to hear it.

578
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: Like I just wanted to, like, hey, Diva, want you

579
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: to know that eventually all that blood, sweat inters you

580
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: put into I eventually got over.

581
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: The therapist that I saw on the street. I changed

582
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: my life. He was wonderful.

583
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did therapists once. Tell me, will you help

584
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: me pick out a therapist once?

585
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: Do you remember that I did.

586
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: We were today, yes, and you were like, Michael, you

587
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: need a gay therapist because you have a black therapist. Yes,

588
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: And you were like, I don't want to have to

589
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: explain to a white therapist what it's like being a

590
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: black woman.

591
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: One has that time.

592
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't think I should have

593
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: to explain you know what it's like.

594
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 5: No.

595
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

596
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: We were good.

597
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Melissa and I were scrolling through psychology today no and

598
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: I was like, how can you? And I was like,

599
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: well what about this one? And you were like, no,

600
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: I don't think he's gay. And I showed you one

601
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: and you went, well he's gay.

602
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I picked him and he was you're welcome.

603
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: She did enough of a thumbnail about the size of

604
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: a quarter, I'm telling you. She said, Oh, well, I

605
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: don't have that time. Carl's gay. An he was good anyway,

606
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: let's get into under Oath. We've got an incredible guest today.

607
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: We're excited.

608
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 1: Stick around, we'll be right back under oath. Welcome back

609
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: to brief Recess. This is under Oath. We are joined

610
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: by the incredible Emily Galvin Almonza, who's the co founder

611
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: and executive director of Partners for Justice. She recently wrote

612
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: a book titled The Price of Mercy, Unfair Trials of Violence,

613
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: System and a Public Defender Search for Justice in America.

614
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to

615
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 5: be here.

616
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 2: Hi, Emily, We're happy to have you, so I'm so

617
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: excited to have you.

618
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: I've been following your work on social media for quite

619
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: some time. If you haven't gotten an opportunity to check

620
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 1: out Emily and what she's doing on the internet, it's incredible.

621
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: Her book really is extraordinary. It takes us behind closed

622
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 1: doors in America's criminal courts, something I'm very familiar with

623
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: and something we talk about a lot on the show,

624
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: and it reveals really how the institutions that claim to

625
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 1: protect us, that are there to serve justice, are actually

626
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: doing the exact opposite quite often. It's something that I

627
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: encounter an immigration court all the time. It's something that

628
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: I've encountered in my criminal practice. Emily, in your book,

629
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: you really offer a blueprint for how to fix this right,

630
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: like how to sort of like move forward. I would

631
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: just love to hear a little bit about the book

632
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: and what it sort of covers.

633
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can't do a whole book that's just

634
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 5: how bad stuff is. Nobody wants to stick around for that.

635
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 5: And in fact, I was trying really consciously to give

636
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 5: people foundational knowledge about how bad stuff is so that

637
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 5: they can be conversant in all of the ways in

638
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 5: which these systems fail us, even if they have been

639
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 5: so lucky in their life is to never have interacted

640
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 5: with the criminal court system. I wanted them to hear,

641
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 5: like soup to nuts, how is it bad? And also

642
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 5: how are all the bad pieces working together to make

643
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 5: each other worse? Because that's something we often miss out on,

644
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 5: is that this is like it's an apparatus, it's machinery.

645
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 5: And I wanted to once we've thoroughly depressed people and

646
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 5: made them look like fire, then we go into talking

647
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 5: about a number of things, which I think some of

648
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 5: them could be termed solutions, and some of them are

649
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 5: like ameliorations. But the bottom line is the number of

650
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 5: ways in which we could do better, build more public safety, better,

651
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 5: you know, health and ability to thrive, and also a

652
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 5: fair system, a system that puts forth some form of legitimacy.

653
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 5: Like the number of ways is stupid? People act like

654
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 5: the solutions are so hard to find you they're not.

655
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 5: There's like multiple studies showing a number of things would

656
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 5: work really really well. We just need political will to

657
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 5: do them.

658
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting, you know. I mean, I think people find

659
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: me on social media or have told me that things

660
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: that they are drawn to about my social media is

661
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: that I offer what I always offer, and we're always

662
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: offering out on this show as well, Like what can

663
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: you do? Like what is the next step? So much

664
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: of journalism, so much of what gets covered in social

665
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: media and legacy media, is here's how fucked up everything is?

666
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: Good luck right, And like you said, I think people

667
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 2: we know, we know how better? Oh yeah, we would

668
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: really like a way out of that. And what can

669
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: we do as an what can I do as an

670
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: individual sort of help fix the problem, as opposed to

671
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: just being like, yep, it sucks to be here, you know.

672
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 5: I was just gonna say, people are so hungry for

673
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 5: exactly that actionable piece. Yeah, like they want to get

674
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 5: up tomorrow and do something which will make a dent

675
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 5: in the grimness of the world.

676
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: What facts did you uncover when you were writing this book.

677
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: Take us through some of the really surprising things you learned.

678
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: It's okay if you depress us. We will get into

679
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: what you can do next, how people can help, how

680
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: people can channel their anger and use that as impetus

681
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: to affect change. But talk us through like the things

682
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: you found as you were looking really hard at the

683
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: criminal justice system.

684
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 5: A lot of this for me was not purely surprising,

685
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 5: because I spent ten years as a public defender, and

686
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 5: now I work with public defenders all across the country,

687
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 5: helping them expand their practice and build sort of more effective,

688
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 5: more beautiful forms of public defense. And before that, I

689
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 5: was a kid who actually needed to be defended. So

690
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 5: I have been on both sides of this. I've been

691
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 5: on multiple sides of this, and so going into this

692
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 5: work it was a little bit of like downloading everything

693
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 5: that I had learned over a lifetime into a set

694
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 5: of pages. But what I found the most surprising was that,

695
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: like in every dark corner that I poked in, I

696
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 5: would find something worse than I had actually experienced in practice.

697
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 5: So for example, you know, we've all been there. Like

698
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 5: I used to practice in a jurisdiction where the cops

699
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 5: at are local precinct would clean the mouthpiece on the

700
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 5: breathalyzer with an alcohol white before people used it.

701
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: Okay, oh my god, Oh no, it's alcohol.

702
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 5: Wait.

703
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: Alcohol, It's so stupid.

704
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 5: But then you know, I do the research and I

705
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 5: learned that there's a drug lab in that it was

706
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 5: you know, studied and reported the news where the ventilation

707
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 5: system was so bad it was literally blowing drugs all

708
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 5: over the lab and contaminating every sample. So like, no

709
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 5: matter where I thought the floor was the.

710
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: Floor, yeah, it was just it was that horse meat

711
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: disco is where they were doing all the drug testing.

712
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: I think that that is really it's astounding, right, because

713
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: you would never it would never didn't even occur to

714
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: me to wonder, how are they cleaning off the little

715
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: breathalyzer thing, right, right, And the idea that they would

716
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: use alcohol.

717
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh I did. I did a continuing legal education and

718
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: this was just it was for every type of legal

719
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: practitioner we have to do legal education like throughout our life.

720
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,239
Speaker 1: So it was a continuing ad class and the it

721
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: was it was like eight in the morning and he

722
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: had someone come up on stage rinse their mouth out

723
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: with listerine and then do a breathalyzer and it said

724
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: that they were like anebriated. Right, so like the whole

725
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: like you're you're right though, once you start sort of

726
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: picking away at it, it's like an onion. It just

727
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: kind of has layers and it smells worse the more

728
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: you can touch it. Yeah. When we were sort of

729
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: preparing for this interview, we were looking at some of

730
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: the facts that you uncovered researching this book about how

731
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: trees in certain neighborhoods affect crime rates. Could you sort

732
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: of tell us a little bit about that research.

733
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 5: I've done this thing to myself. You know how Madonna

734
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 5: is always called the material girl and she meets it.

735
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, now you're the tree girl.

736
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 5: Ever, every time every time there's a cairon, it's like

737
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 5: public defender thinks you can fix public safety with trees.

738
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: Yep. Could you throw that up on the Can you

739
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: throw that up? CJ? Actually I want to see that.

740
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: And you know what this is on the heels of

741
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: They just announced in New York City that they want

742
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: to cover New York City and thirty percent trees by

743
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: twenty forty. Yeah, I'm so excited, which just announced this weekend.

744
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 5: So this is some of the some of the research

745
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 5: in the book that I found so thrilling. I mean,

746
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 5: that's sort of the twin, the good twin to the

747
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 5: evil of finding out that everything was worse than I thought,

748
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 5: is that I found a ton of solutions that were

749
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 5: just like easier and more available and more immediate than

750
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 5: I thought. I think one of my favorite ones is

751
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 5: like having an after school program drops youth involvement in

752
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 5: crime by fifty percent. Yes, it's like so achievable. But

753
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 5: the other things, all of these great environmental design pieces. Now,

754
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 5: a lot of the time, the government will put forth

755
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 5: this idea that a safe public environment is one that

756
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 5: is heavily surveilled. But when we look at the research,

757
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 5: we don't actually see surveillance preventing a ton of crime.

758
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 5: I mean it's kind of obvious if you put yourself

759
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 5: in the place of a person who's considering doing a crime,

760
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 5: Like you see a camera, who knows if anybody's watching

761
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 5: the other end of that camera. It's just like put

762
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 5: on a hat and an N ninety five like whatever.

763
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 5: But if a space is occupied or beautiful in a

764
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 5: way that suggests the space may become presently occupied by

765
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 5: other people, it's just not a good place to do crimes.

766
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 5: So then when when you see like this research on

767
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 5: if you've got a vacant lot and you turn it

768
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 5: into a community garden, crime drops if the community is

769
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 5: involved in creating that garden, like if they do it themselves,

770
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 5: crime drops even more because the space is more likely

771
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 5: to be utilized occupied. Every dilapidated house you fix up

772
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 5: drops crime by twenty percent. One of my favorite comparisons

773
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 5: is like, if you want to eliminate one homicide using

774
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 5: police saturation, you need about seventeen police officers in the

775
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 5: vicinity to eliminate one homicide. Okay, wow, But the City

776
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 5: of Philly improved street lighting, painted sidewalks, fixed up some

777
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 5: dilapidated spaces, and dropped youth homicides by seventy five percent.

778
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: Wow, just by fixing infrastructure, just by fixing up the

779
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: little structure.

780
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 5: And the beautiful thing of is like, even if I'm wrong,

781
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 5: even if everything I've written is wrong. We've still built

782
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 5: a more beautiful world and the same thing, Like this

783
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 5: is the tree thing. The tree thing is kind of

784
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 5: my favorite because it's it's well researched, but it's also mysterious.

785
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

786
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 5: So like tree. You can take two similarly situated housing complexes, right,

787
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 5: they're identical in every way. They've got the same type

788
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 5: of people living in them. If one has more trees,

789
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 5: the research suggests that that building will have not only

790
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 5: less property crime outside the building, but less domestic violence inside. Wow,

791
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 5: it's like people behave.

792
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but do we know why that might be.

793
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 5: There's a lot of theories. I mean, one, there's just

794
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 5: a behavioral piece, where like people behave differently in beautiful

795
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 5: places than they do in ely places. Like that's just

796
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 5: a fact like that, it's context, but it's also there's

797
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 5: really interesting research connecting beauty with longevity, Like people who

798
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 5: live in spaces where they can take in beauty live

799
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 5: longer than people who are deprived of that. There's also

800
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 5: the pollution factor. I mean, there's a lot of research

801
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 5: showing correlation between air pollution and sort of any form

802
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 5: of ingested pollution and behavioral impact. Trees, of course, clean

803
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 5: our air. A lot of the time, the smog layer

804
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 5: is going to hover like in the mid layer of

805
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 5: a building. So smog is not going to be worse

806
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 5: on the first floor. It's going to be worse a

807
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 5: little bit higher up. But that's exactly where you find

808
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 5: the tree layer. I mean, so there's nobody can tell

809
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 5: you definitively why the trees are making people not like

810
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 5: shove their but.

811
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: The evidence is there.

812
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: We don't exactly know why, but yes, but the evidence

813
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: is so.

814
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: We brought you on not as an arborist, but we

815
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: brought you really to talk about the criminal justice system.

816
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: But I know it's an interesting sort of talking point,

817
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: and I get it. Sometimes there are these headlines that

818
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: linger around our name. I will forever be the guy

819
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: whose name is on the list of ice lawyers, like

820
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: the lawyers up against I will always be asked about that.

821
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to be asked about that. But you

822
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: talk a lot about the prison system and how jails

823
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: actually increase crime, right, And a lot of defense attorneys

824
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: know this. A lot of people who are insider baseball

825
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: a part of the criminal justice system understand this. Right

826
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: When I have a client who was mentally ill who

827
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: committed a crime because they were experiencing you know, extreme

828
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: mental illness symptoms psychosis, who then get arrested for a

829
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: crime and go to prison for a year, their illness

830
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: gets worse. They're oftentimes learning how to commit more crimes,

831
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: recidivism rates, learning from other criminals, getting like making friends

832
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: with other criminals, and then leaving. Now they're on parole,

833
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: and anytime they do any little thing, they're back in prison.

834
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: Right.

835
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: So this is very clear and well documented in so

836
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: many legal circles. But I think I think the mainstream,

837
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: everyday person is slowly starting to get socialized to this idea,

838
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: right exactly.

839
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 5: No, So I often, and I take great pleasure saying

840
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 5: this as a woman speaking publicly, that like, our current

841
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 5: criminal legal policy is very emotional, and I just wish

842
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 5: it was more rational in evidence based. Yes, yeah, because

843
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 5: it's all based on like who were scared of and

844
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 5: who we're mad at, and like, let's do bad stuff

845
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 5: that people were mad at and yeah.

846
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: And you know vengeance, right, let's get them. You know

847
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: this person did this, let's get.

848
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 5: Them exactly, and we get there because that's free political

849
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 5: points for lawmakers who don't want to actually do anything.

850
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 5: So exactly as you said, right, the multiple studies show

851
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 5: us that exposure to incarceration, particularly pre trial incarceration, is criminogenic.

852
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 5: The person who's in for seven days is more likely

853
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 5: to be re arrested than the person who was in

854
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 5: for two days, even if they were identical when they

855
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 5: went in. Interesting, and I mentioned those those numbers because

856
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 5: when we look at the research they're studying very short

857
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 5: periods of exposure to incarceration, it's exactly like you just say,

858
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 5: it's not super mysterious. It's a highly violent environment in

859
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 5: which people are traumatized, cut off from all of their

860
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 5: forms of opportunity and support networks, and often harmed both

861
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 5: like personally, psychologically, medically. But if we were making policy

862
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 5: that was reflective of the actual evidence, we would make

863
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 5: radically different policy choices. The same could be said of

864
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 5: you know, you mentioned somebody getting you know, being on

865
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 5: parole and then immediately getting pumped back into the system.

866
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 5: There's research in the book from a professor at UC

867
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 5: Berkeley who studied a naturally occurring experiment in the Midwest

868
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 5: which basically a state changed their laws about pretrial or

869
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 5: i'm sorry, post release supervision and the period of time

870
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 5: during which people had less post release supervision, there was

871
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 5: no uptick in crime, but there was a downslope in

872
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 5: new prison admissions. As soon as they put that intense

873
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 5: supervision back in place, again, no change in crime, but

874
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 5: prison admissions pop back up, demonstrating that this form of

875
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 5: supervision isn't having any impact on crime. It's just filling prisons.

876
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 5: And so if somebody were to look at the evidence,

877
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 5: they say, oh, Man, probation and parole aren't really doing

878
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 5: a lot in terms, there's like not worth the expense,

879
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 5: the massive expense. In some jurisdictions, it can cost literally

880
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 5: a million dollars to put a child on probation for

881
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 5: one year. It's not worth that when you get no

882
00:41:58,840 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 5: public safety benefit.

883
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: That's crazy. And I think like a lot of supplementary

884
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: service provider institutions were shut down for being too expensive. Right,

885
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: we can look at mental health hospitals that were shut

886
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: down and just said, let's have the police, let's have

887
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: the prison system, just take care of those folks, and

888
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: it'll save us a bunch of federal dollars. But it doesn't.

889
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: But it doesn't, But it doesn't. And I wonder if

890
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: I wonder why that information is not pumped out nearly

891
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 2: as much as it is. You know, we're going to

892
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: be hard on crime and we're going to put all

893
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 2: these people away when there is evidence that shows us

894
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: that that's not really how it works, right.

895
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: I think it's like Emily says, it's emotional. This is

896
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: emotional behavior. Like we talked about it with Carenn. Like

897
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: we had a guest on where we talked about the

898
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: death penalty and how you know people vengeance again down

899
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: to this like emotional reaction, a victimhood, right, And it's

900
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: just really psychological it is.

901
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 5: But it's also the framing, right, Like, one of the

902
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 5: things I'm hoping to achieve with this book is to

903
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 5: get people to understand that when a politician stands up

904
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 5: there and offers you something tough on crime, yeah, they're

905
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 5: offering you the status quo. The status quo is tough

906
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 5: on crime. If you like what we already have, yeah,

907
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 5: sure keep, you know, keep. The person who wants to

908
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 5: change nothing, doesn't want to do better. But if you

909
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 5: want to make a commitment when a bad thing happens,

910
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 5: you want to do the work to make sure that

911
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 5: bad thing doesn't happen. Again, that's the harder work that

912
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 5: requires actually looking at the evidence of what makes bad

913
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 5: stuff not happen. You can see it specifically in the

914
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 5: emotional policy offerings of a lot of lawmakers, like fentanyl, right, yeah,

915
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 5: you So many lawmakers are like, I'm going to increase

916
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 5: the sentencings that if you, you know, have to sell

917
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 5: a bag it's got fentanyl in it, you're gonna get

918
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 5: ten more years. Nobody is on the corner looking at

919
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 5: the bags they have and being like, well.

920
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: Let me test this right, double check. Yeah.

921
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 5: People think they sell when they think they're not going

922
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 5: to get caught.

923
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, you.

924
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 5: Know, likelihood of intervention, a number of resources. We have

925
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 5: to not put people in an economic position where selling

926
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 5: drugs is legitimately the best option available. Like these are

927
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: things that actually lower the likelihood of fentanyl being sold.

928
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 5: But that's harder work and it takes a longer time scale.

929
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 5: So we need a voting public that's willing to demand

930
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 5: that and also stick with the longer time scale before

931
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 5: they see the results.

932
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: Who is like nailing it right now? Like is there

933
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: a jurisdiction, is there a state? Is there is there

934
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,959
Speaker 1: a mayor, is there a town that is kind of

935
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: doing what we want to see more.

936
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 5: Of a bunch. Yeah, a bunch, there's a bunch. They're

937
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 5: all doing different things. So, for example, Baltimore has done

938
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 5: a really good job of investing in community violence, interruption

939
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 5: and like community services that can make it less likely

940
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 5: that people will get involved in violence in the first place.

941
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 5: Chicago also had a really good hits with cb I

942
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 5: in a ships see the I, by the way, is

943
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 5: the first thing in our sector that this administration cut.

944
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 5: It was like the first thing when when DJ Granzi

945
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 5: and it's it's suspicious because it was that in victim

946
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 5: services and like both community violence and interruption and victim

947
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 5: services are ways of like helping people heal so that

948
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 5: gun violence doesn't happen. So interesting to watch those get

949
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 5: immediately trashed. But you know, Colorado got rid of qualified

950
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 5: immunity for police officers. I love this because when you

951
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 5: talk about it, people are like, you could never get

952
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 5: rid of qualified immunity. That'll never happen. I'll ever pass.

953
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 5: Everybody would see the police would be a disaster, And

954
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 5: like Colorado just did it and they're fine.

955
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 4: And the.

956
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: Day, yeah, exactly, life went on.

957
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 5: California and Washington, and like a couple of other states

958
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 5: have dealt with the problem of how our kids get railroaded.

959
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 5: This is something that like every parent should know. Kids

960
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 5: should not talk to police alone. Children will waive their

961
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 5: right to counsel ninety percent of the time. Yeah, and

962
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 5: over a third of them will falsely confess to a

963
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 5: crime they did not do, and that number gets higher

964
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 5: the younger they are, or if they think they're covering

965
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 5: for a friend. So basically, none of us should want

966
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 5: our children talking to police alone, because one it's terrible

967
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 5: for the children, but two, like we're not getting any

968
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 5: accurate information out of it, like they're just they're just

969
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 5: doing they're confessing to stuff they didn't do. So California, Washington,

970
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 5: a few other states have passed laws that just say, like,

971
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 5: if the police want to talk to a child, the

972
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 5: child has to have a lawyer present, period, And of

973
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 5: they don't have to invoke they don't have to know

974
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 5: the magic words.

975
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: And just for illustration, I would like to share with

976
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: folks an anecdote of like a what is it like

977
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: an exacto knife? A client's a minor had an exacto

978
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: knife and the cops frisked frisked. My client found this

979
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: exact do knife, which is oftentimes needed for like school projects.

980
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,919
Speaker 1: And the cops said, is the sewers And client said yes,

981
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: and this kid they said, oh is this you know?

982
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: He said it's for school and the cops said, yeah,

983
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: you probably need this for protection for the crazy people

984
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: on these streets too. Right, client says, yes to that,

985
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: you've admitted to intent to use that as a weapon.

986
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: These are not kids who are I think when people

987
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: hear that and hear you say, oh, every kid should

988
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: know this, they're thinking kids in inner city youth. We've

989
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: got inner city youth who are oftentimes coming in contact

990
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: with drugs and weapons. No, it can be something as

991
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: simple as a pen. Oh do you need this just

992
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: in case a homeless guy jumps you? Yeah, I guess. Okay,

993
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: you just admitted to intent to use this as a weapon,

994
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: and that is a crime. Right, So I think people,

995
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: I just to show people that this isn't this isn't

996
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: your kids slinging bags on the corner.

997
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you know what, I really I remember this.

998
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: You know, I was a young person doing that such

999
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: a park five right where these were all young boys

1000
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 2: and they didn't they wouldn't let them call their parents,

1001
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: they didn't have attorneys with them, and they managed to

1002
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,879
Speaker 2: somehow manipulate these young boys into admitting to something that

1003
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: they had not done. And these boys were punished, they

1004
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: went to jail, and their lives were, you know, permanently

1005
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: changed because of it. Only to find out decades later

1006
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: that they had not done this thing, but because they

1007
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: had been alone with the police who were asking them, so,

1008
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 2: this is the first time you had done this, and

1009
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, I guess this is the first

1010
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: time I had done that, and before you knew it,

1011
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 2: they had sort of railroad. Absolutely. The other thing is

1012
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: like we have always told children, especially that the police

1013
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 2: officer is your friend, trust them, call the cops if

1014
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: you need help, Call the cops if you need help.

1015
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: And only to realize now that especially I think black

1016
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: and brown children right are in front of these police

1017
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: officers and now they are sort of, like you said,

1018
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: manipulating the information. And now these boys, these children are

1019
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 2: sort of allowing themselves to be put in this position

1020
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 2: where there's no one to help them, and now they're

1021
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: sort of admitted to something that they really didn't do.

1022
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 5: And it's so isolating. To. I mean, so many the

1023
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 5: kids I represented exactly like you say, for stupid stuff,

1024
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 5: you know, possession of a screwdriver that's a burglary tool,

1025
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 5: possession of a pen that's a graffiti tool. You know,

1026
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 5: like these stupid cases. Oftentimes I might meet them when

1027
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 5: they were fourteen, but the first time they were followed

1028
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 5: home by a police officer or stopped or questioned or

1029
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 5: frisked or criminalized was when they were eight or nine.

1030
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 5: And largely this is the adultification of black boys and

1031
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 5: the hyper surveillance of black and brown neighborhoods. And it's

1032
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 5: not like the other kids at school have the privilege

1033
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 5: to not have that happen to them necessarily know that's

1034
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 5: going on, and so kids often can't turn to each

1035
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 5: other either. That's actually my next project, after the Price

1036
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,839
Speaker 5: of Mercy, is that this fall, I have a book

1037
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,439
Speaker 5: coming out called Andromeda Das and the Reasonable Doubt, which

1038
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 5: is a book about a little girl whose parents are

1039
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 5: public defenders, who knows how to defend her friends when

1040
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 5: they are accused of things.

1041
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: That's full.

1042
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 5: So it's an attempt to teach kids about we can

1043
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 5: talk about this. This is happening to more than just

1044
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 5: you. You are not alone, and there are ways you can

1045
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 5: protect yourself, in ways you can protect each other and

1046
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 5: be kind to each other and treat accusation with skepticism.

1047
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 5: So I'm hoping to like reach until the states can

1048
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 5: pass totally reasonable law that gives everything counsel. I'm trying

1049
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 5: to teach the kids how to invoke.

1050
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: That's great. Yeah, I think that's great. And how can

1051
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: people like be a part of this right? How can

1052
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: people be a part of this change? Fans of the show,

1053
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: people who find us on social media, like, what are

1054
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: some of these reform ideas that are hopeful that people

1055
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:00,760
Speaker 1: can kind of throw their way behind.

1056
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 5: So, first of all, I love that I can say

1057
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 5: you don't have to pay attention to the federal government

1058
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 5: as much on this particular subject matter. Okay, so much

1059
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 5: of the eight like eighty seven percent of people who

1060
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 5: are in prison are there on state and local cases. Okay,

1061
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 5: So mostly the policy changes we're looking for are policy

1062
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 5: changes brought about by local das, states attorneys, local lawmakers,

1063
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 5: county boards of supervisors, sheriffs. So the number of people

1064
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 5: that it takes to push one of these elections to

1065
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 5: a more decarsoral or smarter direction is fairly low. Also,

1066
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 5: like local initiatives can do so much. There's a program,

1067
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 5: though totally volunteer program that I cover in the book

1068
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 5: called Dads on Duty, where a bunch of guys just

1069
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 5: got like really sick of their kids having police encounters

1070
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 5: at school, and so they had t shirts made that

1071
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 5: said Dad's on duty, and they started like patrolling the halls,

1072
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 5: and when a kid was like doing knucklehead stuff, they'd

1073
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 5: give them a look and the knucklehead stuff would stop,

1074
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 5: and so incidents and arrests of the school. So like

1075
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 5: we can do so we don't have to wait for permission.

1076
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 5: Like you can form a like Grandma's on duty at

1077
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 5: your school. You can court watch. You can go sit

1078
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 5: in the courtroom so that if there's a judge who's

1079
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 5: going to be absolutely cruel to the people who appear

1080
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 5: in front of them, like they might not do it

1081
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 5: in front of you, particularly if you have a notebook,

1082
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 5: you can demand. This is one of my favorites. We

1083
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 5: often feel really helpless about bad policing, and people who

1084
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 5: work in policing feel helpless about that too. There are

1085
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 5: so many police leaders who wish they could fire the

1086
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 5: bad actors in their department. But because ninety eight percent

1087
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 5: of union contracts contain a provision that says you can't

1088
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 5: fire the bad guys like they're stuck. But prosecutors can

1089
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 5: use something called they do not Call list, where the

1090
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 5: prosecutor basically says, you do whatever you want police department.

1091
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 5: But if your officers are credibly found to have engaged

1092
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 5: in like lying to the public in you know, lying

1093
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 5: about the public test a, lying or mistreating the public violence,

1094
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 5: I'm simply not going to use that cop in any

1095
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 5: of my cases. And what's great about that is if

1096
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 5: the cop can't be used in a prosecution, they're essentially used.

1097
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're paper.

1098
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 5: Exactly. They get benched immediately. So like you can go

1099
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 5: to your local DA and be like, why don't you

1100
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 5: have this policy? Why do you want to use bad cops?

1101
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 5: I love them, not use bad cops. There's so much

1102
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 5: we can do locally.

1103
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:18,919
Speaker 2: Fac I love that really, Really, that's really cool.

1104
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: And what I love what you're talking about really is people.

1105
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: I get this all the time, right, like what can

1106
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: I do? How can I help? And I always try

1107
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 1: to empower people with like small tools that they can

1108
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: do with fifty followers on Instagram, right, like you need

1109
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 1: you don't need like a huge platform to affect change.

1110
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: And oftentimes, like you say, it is on these really

1111
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: small local levels like the mom's Facebook group. How can

1112
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: you pressure someone? So I love hearing that. When does

1113
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: your next book come out? Like? What is there anything

1114
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: you'd like to plug? We talked a bit about your book.

1115
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the book is the Price of Mercy. If

1116
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 5: you like solutions like these, you can check it out.

1117
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 5: It's available everywhere books are sold. In September, you could

1118
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 5: expect the arrival of Andromeda Diaz. And if you have

1119
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 5: a middle grade reader in your life, and you would

1120
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 5: like that middle grade reader, like my daughter say to

1121
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 5: her local school cop, I want to remain silent, and

1122
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 5: I want a lawyer. Every time he tries to talk

1123
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 5: to me about that's, get of a copy.

1124
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: Of It's It's really true. And I think you know,

1125
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known what to say if a police

1126
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: officer approached me as a kid.

1127
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: So, I mean, we have to how did you sort

1128
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: of get into this work? I'm just so curious.

1129
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 5: Simily, Well, I had a really rough time of it

1130
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 5: as a young person for a period that culminated me

1131
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 5: getting arrested and coming before a judge who was a

1132
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 5: legendary advocate for young people in Massachusetts, Judge Leslie Harris,

1133
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 5: who I write about in the book. And then because

1134
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 5: of him and his determination to see potential in children

1135
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 5: instead of seeing threat, I was able to go onto

1136
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 5: college in law school, and in my first year criminal

1137
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 5: law class, I thought, Man, I really connect with these

1138
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 5: pass I don't know why to think too hard about that.

1139
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 5: It's not that I've done the crime, It's just that

1140
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 5: I like these stories. So I took a job at

1141
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 5: the La County Public Defender that summer, and I started

1142
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 5: walking into rooms with kids who were not that much

1143
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 5: younger than me and had done stuff that I had

1144
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 5: literally done that. They were black and brown and East

1145
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 5: La and I had not been. And I've been so

1146
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 5: angry about that for since. Sure that I've just never stopped.

1147
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: But isn't it wonderful though? That I mean, because this

1148
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: could have gone wrong for you if he did not

1149
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 2: happen to be in front of this particular judge who

1150
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 2: truly cared about what happens to kids. And I mean

1151
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: I think that, I don't mean, I don't know when

1152
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 2: people are in certain positions if they really understand sort

1153
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 2: of the power that they have and how they could

1154
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 2: use their power for good.

1155
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 4: Right.

1156
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 2: I mean I hate to say to say things like

1157
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: that because sounds so cheesy, but you know, because if

1158
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 2: you had gone before a judge who was a different animal,

1159
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,959
Speaker 2: you would be in a completely different place right now.

1160
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: So this is what we need. We need more people

1161
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: like this judge.

1162
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 1: Yes.

1163
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 5: No, I was able to write him years later, when

1164
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 5: I'd become a public defender and I'd represented like thousands

1165
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 5: of people because case loads are way too high. I

1166
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 5: was able to write it and be like, you know, hey,

1167
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 5: like all of my cases are your grand cases.

1168
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: Congratulations, I've got all these dispositions.

1169
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that's I mean, those stories

1170
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: like that are what give us hope because we're looking

1171
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: at a landscape that feels sometimes really dismal, and it

1172
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: feels like we don't know what to do everything. Everything

1173
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: feels terrible sometimes, But when you hear a story like this,

1174
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: you're like, you know what, everything is not terrible. We

1175
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,959
Speaker 2: can sort of invoke change if we if we try.

1176
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: But I also love what Emily said about like letting

1177
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: anger propel you. I think literally everyone is angry right now,

1178
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: And I hear it in every single DM. I get.

1179
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: People are angry, they're upset, they are reacting to you

1180
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about and headlines, And every time

1181
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: that happens, I'm not like, oh man, I mean this

1182
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 1: person agree. I'm like, hell yeah, Like if you're mad,

1183
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: like it means something good is happening, right, Like you're

1184
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: alive inside, you're fired up. I don't think anyone ever

1185
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: like invoked change from a place of emotional uh like.

1186
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 2: Calm distance, emotional distance, Like I think.

1187
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: I think all change and like revolutionary radical change in

1188
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: the world came about because we were something.

1189
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 5: Was secretly furious living.

1190
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: So I just I love to hear that, like this

1191
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: anger from your youth really propelled you through this extraordinary

1192
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: career and into this change. So I love to hear that.

1193
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: And I think that is hopeful, right, like helpful about

1194
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, hell yeah, make emotional decisions. I love that.

1195
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 2: I also think the other the other sort of message

1196
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: of hope is that realizing that there are some things

1197
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 2: that you could do at the grassroots level within your

1198
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 2: own community that could potentially make a huge difference unity

1199
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 2: garden planting, more trees and more. People need to hear

1200
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: those things, and they also need to have the information

1201
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: that you have, right, like the statistics, the numbers. Show

1202
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 2: us the numbers, because I think if I were to

1203
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 2: go to somebody like my husband, for example, who's kind

1204
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: of a cynic, right, and I would say, you know,

1205
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: today I learned that if you plant more trees in

1206
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: a community, crime goes down, he'd be like, really, but

1207
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: but I But if I were to show him the

1208
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 2: numbers for him, that would make the difference. And I

1209
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: think we need to sort of tell people these stories

1210
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 2: but also provide the numbers behind it, what are the

1211
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: stats behind it, because people need to hear that as well.

1212
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: Otherwise it just seems like sort of airy fairy stuff.

1213
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 2: You know.

1214
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 5: Literally one hundred pages of the book is citations. And

1215
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: the reason is because as a public defender, like I know,

1216
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 5: no one's going to take my word for stuff.

1217
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 3: Exactly what you need to need you need, you need

1218
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 3: the receipts, you need the recepts.

1219
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Emily. Where can people find you on

1220
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: social media? What's your hand? And all?

1221
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 5: We'll throw it up on the stag at Galvan Almanza

1222
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 5: on pretty much everything Instagram, Twitter, blue scribe, blue sky,

1223
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 5: you name it all right?

1224
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, Emily. This is great.

1225
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. You guys really appreciate it.

1226
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: Okay, well this is tells from the dms. These are

1227
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: all the weird, wild, freaky, deeky, crazy, lascibious, licentious, scandalous,

1228
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: salacious things you send me and Melissa on the internet.

1229
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 2: Friends, What do I always say? While Michael is a lawyer,

1230
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 2: he's not your lawyer, so you should probably look into

1231
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: getting your own.

1232
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: But you can hire me. I'm for hiring.

1233
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 2: It's cheap.

1234
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: Bogo. Did you know the word for sale in Sweden?

1235
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: I went to Sweden It's slut spurt. So all these stories,

1236
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: it was like.

1237
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 2: Let's let's look that up and put that in the notes.

1238
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 2: Because Michael is also known to be a liar to.

1239
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: The Swedish people say in the comments, it's let's right,

1240
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: you know.

1241
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 2: Somebody from Sweden reached out to me. Actually, that's so funny.

1242
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 2: And she wanted to know the lipstick that I was wearing.

1243
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: What is it?

1244
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 2: Tralla, No it was?

1245
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: Did you tell her?

1246
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: No?

1247
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 2: I did, Yes, I did tell her what it was,

1248
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 2: but unfortunately it did not have a cool name like

1249
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: vicious Trollope.

1250
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: Okay from the DMS from the Santa Con episode. People

1251
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: want to know Corey Johnson's seven four four four Okay,

1252
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: but drop the sweatshirt link, Melissa from your Taurus sweatshirt.

1253
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. Somebody a bunch of other people asked

1254
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: me about it, and I don't remember where I bought them.

1255
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: A friend of mine bought them for us. She's a Libra.

1256
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus, right, but I don't remember, but I

1257
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: promise I will look into it. I know that it

1258
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: was a black owned company that we saw on Instagram.

1259
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is and this is the problem. If

1260
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: you do love our show, you are following two influencers

1261
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: over the age of thirty five. So we are likely

1262
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: going to forget where things come from. We're going to

1263
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: forget the link like it just comes with the territory.

1264
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: So if you want quick links, follow a twenty two

1265
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: year old.

1266
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 2: Sorry, friends, but I will look.

1267
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: Do you want to read one?

1268
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: Sure? Okay? This is I really love this because I

1269
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 2: agreed completely From Zach Tanner seventeen. America just needs to restart.

1270
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 2: Maybe someone should see if Trump can try and unplug

1271
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: the country and plug it back in. Seriously, though, our

1272
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 2: government is the worst.

1273
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: Something you would say to me, I would call you.

1274
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: You would say that.

1275
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: Control all delete, let's just start over. Everything is terrible.

1276
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: It's a deep, poor cleanse. I do feel like if

1277
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: you ever you know, doesn't do shower, like when you

1278
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: get home from a bar or something. Yes, yeah, I shower,

1279
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: I do the full, I do the you have to

1280
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: do everything shower, you need everything shower.

1281
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's disgusting outside.

1282
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. From Katie Bites, she writes, high deep, high depots.

1283
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: I've been summoned for jury duty and I'd rather not

1284
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: any outfit tip to ensure I'm not the chosen one. Yes,

1285
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: really you have one idea?

1286
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I can just so. I think that

1287
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 2: if you if you don't want to be chosen for

1288
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 2: a jury, I suggest that you go on social media

1289
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 2: and look for somebody who was trying out outfits to

1290
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 2: wear to Coachella, and that's that will get you out

1291
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 2: of it. For show, there were two girls.

1292
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: Who were making fun of uh Coachella influencers and going

1293
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: to Coachella, and they were like, get ready with me

1294
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: to go to Coachella, and I'm with me I'm shopping

1295
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: at Marshall's and they did this whole like Marshall's thing.

1296
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: Marshall saw it and sent them to Coachella.

1297
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure they did. Listen, get it. Good for you.

1298
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: It's really amazing to me how people. Oh my voice

1299
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: is going, okay.

1300
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: Okay, she was silenced by Marshals okay. Sarah Newman wrote,

1301
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: do you have a possible question for the pod? I'm

1302
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: a licensed professional counselor in Texas and our grulish up

1303
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: a lot recently.

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01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 2: I love that. Actually, go ahead.

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01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: Sorry, recently updated our Health and Safety Code to prohibit

1306
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: my profession from facilitating treatment to trans youth as our

1307
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 1: license classifies us as healthcare providers. Interesting, he has classified

1308
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: gender affirming care for minors as child abuse in the state. Wow,

1309
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: all right, Texas. With the recent Supreme Court ruling that

1310
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: therapy has protected speech, it seems states can no longer

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01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 1: prohibit a therapeutic approach by targeting the ideas expressed in session.

1312
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: Could the Supreme Court ruling be applied here? Yes, it

1313
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: could be. That is like my legal sort of understanding.

1314
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: It could be applied. However, it would have to go

1315
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: up and be fully litigated. By the Supreme Court. So

1316
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: this is something that would have to work through the

1317
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 1: court system, probably for a couple of years. And there

1318
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: are like activist law firms and attorneys who take those

1319
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: types of cases and will file suit in order to

1320
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, sort of litigate that although to the Supreme

1321
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: Court and get a decision. But it is going to

1322
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: take some time. But I'm sorry, you're going you have

1323
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: to handle that. I mean, anyone who has to work.

1324
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: With I mean, just the idea that providing therapy, gender

1325
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 2: firm and care for a child and is considered child abuse.

1326
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: Even just therapy. It's not even like hormone block it's

1327
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: not even puberty blockers. It's nothing. It's literally just God

1328
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: ruling that therapy is protected speech. It could no longer

1329
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: it is technically, yeah, would be covered under the First Amendment,

1330
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: So I under I mean, it's a sound legal argument.

1331
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: I think it will get worked through and the law

1332
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: will probably be held on constitutional at some point, but

1333
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 1: just not yet. Okay, We're going to read probably the

1334
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: craziest email I've gotten, one that is so crazy we

1335
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: had to run it past the legal department twice myself

1336
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: as part of the one of the lawyers reviewing it.

1337
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: We sent it to legal. I have a language I'm

1338
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: allowed to use when we discuss it. But it's next

1339
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: week and it's a out the Gay Panic Defense episode.

1340
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: It is insider tea. It is hot, goss, it is

1341
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: it is nasty, it's freaky.

1342
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 2: It is let the record reflect that when when it

1343
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,439
Speaker 2: came up. When it came up, I was just like.

1344
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: Sure, and I was like, it's fine, let's do it.

1345
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, because you're the lawyer.

1346
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: But hard cut to legal getting involved. And since I

1347
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 1: said I'm a lawyer, I never said I was a

1348
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: good one. And Melissa saying, I told you so, I

1349
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: told you you did the I told you I told

1350
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: you so.

1351
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 2: Dance, I told you so. I told you so.

1352
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: All Right, let's get out of here. That was tales

1353
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 1: from the DMS. We'll see you next week when we

1354
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,919
Speaker 1: talk about that weird crazy email we got. I can't.

1355
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: I can't, I honestly can't. I want to.

1356
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: You can't.

1357
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 4: Wait.

1358
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 1: Well, I'll do it next week and I'll give it

1359
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: the full segment. A dramatic reading, yes, and.

1360
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 2: A dramatic reading.

1361
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: Local warm ups. Okay, I'll see you in court. Just

1362
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: Michael not you never me. This has been an Exactly

1363
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by Me, Michael Foot, and.

1364
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 2: Me Melissa Albrant. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni.

1365
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

1366
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker

1367
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: is Patria Cottner.

1368
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Brifogel, with artwork

1369
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: from Charlotte Delarue Manessa Lilac with photography by Brad Obono.

1370
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 2: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff, Georgia hart Stark,

1371
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: and Danielle Kramer.

1372
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy

1373
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot.

1374
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 2: And I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.

1375
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: Got legal questions, reach out at brief Recess at exactlyrightmedia

1376
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: dot com. Listen to Brief Recess on the iHeartRadio app,

1377
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and of

1378
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: course we're a podcasts with video. Search for Brief Recess

1379
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 1: on YouTube