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Speaker 1: Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beeps and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve, I'm Jordan.

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Speaker 1: I got my Chelsea boots on for this one. Yes,

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Speaker 1: this is the second part of our special two part

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Speaker 1: Beatle Brawls series. If you heard our previous episode, we

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Speaker 1: talked about the rivalry between John Lennon and Paul McCartney,

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Speaker 1: and which is, like, you know, a very famous rivalry.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's a it's like a Bible story,

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Speaker 1: isn't it for rock fans. It's a musical can enable

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Speaker 1: I guess in a way. Yeah, so that's sort is

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Speaker 1: really famous. I think what is less sung is that

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a word less sung or

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Speaker 1: I'll say unsung relatively unsung is the rivalry between Lennon

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Speaker 1: McCartney as a team in George Harrison uh, the junior

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Speaker 1: member of the Beatles, who was also a very good

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Speaker 1: songwriter but did not get the respect always that he

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Speaker 1: deserved from the other two songwriters in the band. You know,

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Speaker 1: I had a teacher once who told me, you know,

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Speaker 1: the older you get, the more you're gonna see that

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Speaker 1: George Harrison was kind of the coolest Beetle And this

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Speaker 1: was maybe twenty years ago, and I keep thinking of that,

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Speaker 1: and I see that he's kind of right, I think,

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Speaker 1: so I all you had to do was look at

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Speaker 1: the cover of Cloud nine, his solo record from like

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Speaker 1: from like the late eighties. He's like wearing the Hawaiian shirt,

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Speaker 1: he has like the the Oakley sunglasses on. His hair's

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Speaker 1: all blown back and it looks like he's like floating

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Speaker 1: in the sky. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: the chilliest dude in the world. Dad Rock Nirvana. Really,

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Speaker 1: But of course that was like twenty years after the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: He was not chill when he was in the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: He had a hard time, uh. And it's basically why

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Speaker 1: he ended up just meditating for the rest of his

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Speaker 1: life after he left the Beatles. UM with some pitstops

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Speaker 1: into cocaine abuse every now and then in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: Um and Python cocaine and Monty Python. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to talk about here. So without further ado, let's

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Speaker 1: get into this mess. So it's important to George's on

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Speaker 1: trade in the Beatles is through his schoolmate. Paul McCartney

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Speaker 1: was his friend from the school bus, and Paul initially

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Speaker 1: maca yeah, Macca would try to brush him off because

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Speaker 1: George was in the year below, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: can't sit next to a younger kid on the school bus.

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Speaker 1: He just can't. That's against the rules of coolness in

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Speaker 1: the school. But eventually, I guess every other seat in

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Speaker 1: the bus was probably taken and he had to sit

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Speaker 1: next to George, and they realized they had a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about. They both loved rock and roll and guitars,

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Speaker 1: and at this point, Paul was in a band with

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Speaker 1: John the Corey men ak A The Primordial Beatles and Uh.

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Speaker 1: Paul initially been hired as a lead guitarist, but during

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Speaker 1: their first gig with Paul, he completely botched the solo.

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Speaker 1: I think the song was guitar boogie and and he

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Speaker 1: did not boogie on that guitar that night. So it

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Speaker 1: became quickly apparent that they needed somebody else to fill

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Speaker 1: the lead guitar spot. So Paul recommended his friend George,

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Speaker 1: and there's the sort of very famous story of of

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Speaker 1: George auditioning for John on the top deck of a

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Speaker 1: bus one night an empty bus, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: gone down in the Beatle lore as this mythological kind

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Speaker 1: of test with John Lennon. Yeah, he played the song

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Speaker 1: Raunchy Build, just the fifties hit instrumental song. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you watch any Beatles documentary, you will hear this story.

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Speaker 1: Like I've seen several documentaries, I've heard the story about

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Speaker 1: eight million times. But I'm I'm always delighted by it,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it just shows, Yeah, these guys at

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Speaker 1: one point, we're just teenagers forming a band. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Harrison not only was he younger, but he looked younger.

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Speaker 1: He looks like a fetus. Like when you look at

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Speaker 1: those early photos of of the band, I mean, he

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Speaker 1: looks like a really little kid. Oh my god. Well

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Speaker 1: they used to they used to smear dirt on his

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Speaker 1: face to make it look like five o'clock shadows who

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Speaker 1: can get in the clubs and stuff. That's how just

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Speaker 1: not something I considered when I was that age. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like why Harrison had like huge beards like by

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Speaker 1: the end of the sixties, because it was just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to cover and bird anymore, buddy, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm harrisuit as hell. Right now. But I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like George he was only eight months younger than Paul,

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Speaker 1: and I guess he was two and a half years

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Speaker 1: younger than John, but you know, he was a little

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Speaker 1: bit shorter than them, and it just seems like he

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Speaker 1: had like little brother syndrome. In the Beatles, like if

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Speaker 1: you know, we were talking to our previous episode, it's

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Speaker 1: such an archetypal story about friendship, like how they came

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Speaker 1: together and how they fell apart. And with George, it's

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Speaker 1: like it's more like a family aspect, and it's like

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Speaker 1: you have the two older brothers who are like the

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Speaker 1: stars of the school, you know, who are you good

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Speaker 1: at everything? And then like you're the you're like the

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Speaker 1: little brother who's um, you know, trying to trying to

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Speaker 1: stand out. He has to literally tag along with John

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Speaker 1: on his dates with his girlfriends, like he would like,

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Speaker 1: you know, just just follow it. Yeah, I mean it

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Speaker 1: was really a case of literal tagging along. He wanted

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Speaker 1: he wanted to his hero to to look at him,

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Speaker 1: to give him some words of praise. And you know,

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Speaker 1: like all families, like the role that you have when

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Speaker 1: you're a kid, those roles tend to stick around. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of families like like if you were

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Speaker 1: known when you were eight years old as the as

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Speaker 1: the one who didn't like mashed potatoes, Like when you're

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Speaker 1: thirty eight, your mom is still gonna bring up how

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Speaker 1: you don't like mashed potatoes. And like Harrison, as the

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Speaker 1: Beatles progress, you know, they treated him like the little kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, the one that like, Okay, John and Paul,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna write all the hits, We're gonna do all

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Speaker 1: the work. You just play the guitar. You don't need

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Speaker 1: to worry about it. And also he ends up getting

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Speaker 1: described as the quiet Beatle, which is kind of diminishing nickname.

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Speaker 1: It's not like the cute one, for instance, like people

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Speaker 1: called Paul McCartney the cute one. You know, George Harrison

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Speaker 1: was the quiet one. I remember reading this story about

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Speaker 1: how like when they first went to America, George Harrison

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Speaker 1: didn't talk a lot because he had a sore throat.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, that's why I didn't talk a lot,

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't really talk and I was trying to

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Speaker 1: save my voice. But he was like, if I'm the

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Speaker 1: quiet one, then that means that the other ones were

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Speaker 1: really loud, because he definitely didn't see himself that way. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's the famous story when they're talking to

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Speaker 1: George Martin in the studio for the first time and

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Speaker 1: George is kind of like showing them around. They're this young,

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Speaker 1: completely inexperienced bands, first time in like you know, well

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Speaker 1: not there first one of the first times in a

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Speaker 1: major recording studio, and George Martin goes, is there anything

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Speaker 1: you don't like? George Harrison said, looks right back and says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't like your tie, which is not something a quiet,

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Speaker 1: meek guy would say to your your new boss in

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Speaker 1: the studio with just signed a contract with. So I

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Speaker 1: mean that that, I think tells you a lot more

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Speaker 1: about George than than meets the eyes. That he he

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Speaker 1: had some he had some spunky as he was, he

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Speaker 1: had some jokes. George Harrison's got jokes. He's like the most.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to diagnose him as bipolar because I

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Speaker 1: don't think he's literally bipolar, but there is these there

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Speaker 1: are these extremes of his personality were on one hand,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's like this very spiritual, chill, introspective person

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Speaker 1: and there's this other side where there's an anger to

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Speaker 1: him and like also like a viciousness to his sense

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Speaker 1: of humor where he could be just as cutting as

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Speaker 1: John Lennon, you know, like he had that same thing

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Speaker 1: into him and they were raging together at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It's what makes them such an interesting person to think about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the whole great example of still waters run deep, which

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Speaker 1: is and he would get angrier as his time and

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Speaker 1: the Beatles progressed. I mean it kind of as you

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Speaker 1: were saying earlier, John and Paul kind of carved up

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Speaker 1: the songwriting between them. I guess they had talked earlier

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Speaker 1: on about whether or not to cut George in because

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Speaker 1: some of the early instrumental songs George has a credit on,

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Speaker 1: like early stuff like Cry for a Shadow, stuff that

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Speaker 1: that showed up on the anthology. But they decided just

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Speaker 1: to keep it simple and keep it just the two

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Speaker 1: of them. And so when George started songwriting, he really

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Speaker 1: had to come from nowhere in a group that had

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Speaker 1: letting a. McCartney the greatest songwriting duo the out of

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. And it is wild to me how that

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Speaker 1: stayed so rigid even as McCartney and Lennon essentially stopped

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Speaker 1: writing together. You know, as the sixties progressed, they still

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Speaker 1: would put their names together, like on on all their songs.

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Speaker 1: You know, even like I think give Piece of Chance,

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Speaker 1: like this solo John Lennon's that's like a Lennon like

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Speaker 1: Lennon and I think, you know, Lennon still felt this

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Speaker 1: sort of sense of loyalty to Paul that he had

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Speaker 1: to maintain that facade. And yet they never thought to

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Speaker 1: bring George in, you know, like there was never this

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Speaker 1: thought like, okay, like George, he started to write pretty

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Speaker 1: good songs into the mid sixties, like if I needed someone,

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Speaker 1: obviously tax Man, I want to tell you he's showing

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Speaker 1: some potential, you know, why not bring him in. It's

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Speaker 1: like when George, you know, got into the late sixties

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Speaker 1: and he started assembling the songs that would go on

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Speaker 1: his first post Beatles solo record, which is All Things

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Speaker 1: Must Pass. You know, he was hanging out with Bob Dylan, know,

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Speaker 1: the songwriter of songwriters, and Bob Dylan offered to do

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Speaker 1: a co write with him. You know, they did the

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Speaker 1: song Uh, I'd have You anytime? Oh yeah, yeah, So

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Speaker 1: like Bob Dylan was willing to write with George Harrison,

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Speaker 1: but Lennon McCartney weren't. And I mean that really I

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Speaker 1: think was eating at him. As you know, the band continued,

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Speaker 1: and you know, in their defense, yeah, his early songs

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Speaker 1: probably weren't that good. He had to come from he'd

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Speaker 1: always say interviews. You know, John and Paul wrote all

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Speaker 1: their bad songs years before we had a record contract.

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Speaker 1: So suddenly I had to kind of come from nowhere

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Speaker 1: and write songs that could that wouldn't totally sound out

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Speaker 1: of place on albums filled with with their brilliant hits.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, you feel bad for him, But in

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Speaker 1: a way, John and Paul they were it was a business,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't They weren't in the business of nurturing

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Speaker 1: a new artist. They were just trying to get the

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Speaker 1: job done and make a hit single. So I see

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Speaker 1: both sides kind of. I gotta say, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the first Harrison song on a Beatles record is Don't

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Speaker 1: Bother Me. It's on with the Beatles. I liked that song.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty good song. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's like as good it is like All My Loving

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Speaker 1: or like you know, all the great Beatles, like or

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Speaker 1: I want to hold your hand or she loves you.

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Speaker 1: But you could see already that Harrison had a persona

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Speaker 1: in the Beatles. Uh yeah, this sort of cantankerous loner

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Speaker 1: thing that like added a lot to the band. And

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Speaker 1: it's interesting like how I think George Harrison became an

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Speaker 1: archetype for other similar songwriters and other bands, you know,

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Speaker 1: because we can look at the Beatles, and you can

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Speaker 1: look at all the ways that they influenced subsequent bands,

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Speaker 1: how bands imitated what they did, sometimes unintentionally, you know,

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Speaker 1: like how bands fell apart in many ways sort of

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Speaker 1: echo the ways that the Beatles fell apart. But I'm

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Speaker 1: always intrigued by bands that have like a George Harrison

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Speaker 1: figure in the in the band. Like I think of

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Speaker 1: like drive By Truckers in their incarnation, like when Jason

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Speaker 1: Isabel was in the band, like he was like the

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Speaker 1: George Harrison of drive By Truckers at that time. Also,

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Speaker 1: like one of my favorite bands of all time, I

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Speaker 1: was Guided by Voices, great nineties indie rock band, Robert

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Speaker 1: Pollard is like the Lennon McCartney in one body of

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Speaker 1: that band. But then there's this other guy, Copen Sprout,

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Speaker 1: who was like the George Harrison of that, and I

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Speaker 1: alway kind of pull for the George Harrison figures. It's

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Speaker 1: like always the guy who the dark dominant as like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the exactly the dark horse person. And you always feel like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're they're so good on their like three or four

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Speaker 1: songs that they get a lotted on the album, Like

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Speaker 1: what if they could be spotlighted like on their own.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's always the intrigue of the George Harrison figure.

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Speaker 1: And of course that started with George himself and that

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Speaker 1: was a niche that he ended up carving for himself

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Speaker 1: on these records. And the funny thing about don't bother

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Speaker 1: Me like you're saying, is that George Martin and all

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Speaker 1: the Beatles would say in later years. You know, Georgia's

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Speaker 1: songs were kind of rush jobs because we didn't want

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Speaker 1: to waste time on them because they were just a

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Speaker 1: George song. And the first thing that you hear on

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Speaker 1: Don't Bother Me if you listen to it closely, is

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Speaker 1: studio chatter. It's George sang too fast. He's telling his bandmates,

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Speaker 1: so no slow down, which is I think just such

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Speaker 1: a funny way to start his like solo songwriting career

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Speaker 1: is him yelling at his bandmates. And obviously they kept

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Speaker 1: the too fast version because that's the one we're hearing

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Speaker 1: right now. So I don't know, I think that's very telling.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like, yeah, it's almost like they're taking the

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Speaker 1: piss out of him. And that did become a thing

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Speaker 1: I think with Harrison as the Beatles progressed where he

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Speaker 1: felt like they weren't giving it there like that that

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Speaker 1: John and Paul weren't giving it. They're all like on

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Speaker 1: his songs that they weren't as invested in those songs.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the big example of that is, of course,

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Speaker 1: while my Guitar Gently Weeps, which was a song they

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Speaker 1: worked on over and over again, and Harrison just felt

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Speaker 1: like the takes were dead and they weren't, you know,

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Speaker 1: doing this song that he felt was really good. Justice

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Speaker 1: So then he ends up bringing Eric Clapton, and then

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Speaker 1: of course then John and Paul snapped into shape. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, aren't there examples two of like Harrison playing

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Speaker 1: on Lennon McCartney songs like where like they were slagging

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Speaker 1: he's playing too, like they didn't like his guitar playing sometimes.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean especially around like sixty five, Paul

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Speaker 1: started taking a lot of the guitar solos because George,

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Speaker 1: and you read a lot of this in Jeff Emrick

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Speaker 1: there and Engineers Memoir. Uh, George, some sometimes took it's

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Speaker 1: kind of beetle book. Yeah right, It's like there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of dirt in that. But George,

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Speaker 1: I guess, would take a long time to get his

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Speaker 1: solos sometimes. And Paul was, you know, a very well

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Speaker 1: documented perfectionist, and he was fed up with it, so

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Speaker 1: he started taking solos on a lot of songs, take

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Speaker 1: It to Ride, Another Girl, the Night Before, Drive My Car,

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Speaker 1: even tax Man, which is George's own song. Paul said,

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Speaker 1: all right, George, you know what, let me let me

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Speaker 1: give a shot at this. And you know, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to argue Paul's solos are incredible, but I mean that

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Speaker 1: really annoyed George to know, like he's one role in

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Speaker 1: the band was exclusively his was being encroached down by

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, see you, and I I mean, look, those

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Speaker 1: songs have cool solos on them. I will say I

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Speaker 1: love George Harrison's good are playing, and I think that

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Speaker 1: the sound of his guitar especially like his slide guitar

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Speaker 1: is such a distinctive audio sort of trademark of like

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Speaker 1: early seventies rock, not only just like on the George

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Speaker 1: Harrison solo songs, but like you can hear it in

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Speaker 1: like America songs and like Bad Finger sounds, as there's

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Speaker 1: so many like it's like that just that sound of that,

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Speaker 1: that that slide guitar sound. I think it's so distinctively George.

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Speaker 1: So I love his guitar playing um, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just think McCartney was such a control freak with especially

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Speaker 1: with his own songs. I mean again, like the famous

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Speaker 1: example I feel like of that is from the movie

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Speaker 1: Let it be the documentary, like where they're trying to

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Speaker 1: play I think it's I've got a feeling and he's

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Speaker 1: just like humming the solo over and over again to him.

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Speaker 1: And and this was like a real thing for for

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Speaker 1: Harrison as the Beatles, you know, guide into those later

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Speaker 1: records that like you know, McCartney would always want to

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Speaker 1: compose the guitar solo and there's that famous outburst where

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Speaker 1: he says, you know, i'll play what you want me

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Speaker 1: to play, I won't play at all, you know, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is I can do to please you, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll do it, you know, very caddy. And of course

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Speaker 1: he ends up storming out of the studio shortly after that. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think he rightfully felt that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm the guitar player in the Beatles, I've you know,

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Speaker 1: I've got a certain stature here to do a job.

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Speaker 1: Let me do it. But I'm sure if you look

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Speaker 1: at it from like Paul's perspective and and also John's perspective,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think Paul was more confrontational with George,

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Speaker 1: but as we'll get into there's lots of examples of

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Speaker 1: John sort of slagging George off too. You know. I

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Speaker 1: think they felt like, well, we're letting him McCartney, like

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Speaker 1: we wrote all the hits, were the captains of this band,

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Speaker 1: and we're better than you, so we know better than you,

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Speaker 1: you know, And no other band would George Harrison have

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Speaker 1: to deal with that kind of treatment except in the

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Speaker 1: in the band that he happened to be in. You know,

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Speaker 1: that ended up being like the big sort of catch

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Speaker 1: twenty two of his career at that time. Oh yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: the late sixties, going to hang out with with Bob

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Speaker 1: Dylan and the Band and Delaney and Bonnie and Eric Clappan,

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Speaker 1: all these like incredibly just huge artists that that have

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Speaker 1: all the integrity in the world think that George is amazing,

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Speaker 1: but he just can't get that respect in his own,

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Speaker 1: you know, his own metaphorical home. It's going back to

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Speaker 1: the family thing. You're just the little kid with dirt

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Speaker 1: on your face who can't nable solo. All right, may

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Speaker 1: and we'll be right back with more rivals. It seems

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Speaker 1: like George's like real starting like his feelings of like

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Speaker 1: starting to pull out of the band. Would't you say

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Speaker 1: it's Sergeant Pepper. I mean, because I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: read books like where he's talked about feeling pretty bored

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Speaker 1: during the making of that. Oh yeah, I mean he's there.

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Speaker 1: I think there's something like six songs where he's like

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Speaker 1: not even playing on it, or if he is, he's

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Speaker 1: playing like, you know, a tambourine or something. And it's

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Speaker 1: not a lot to do because in that are they

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Speaker 1: weren't playing together as a live band. They were just

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Speaker 1: building it almost like a film with overdubs. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: he say like I would take my guitar out of

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Speaker 1: the case and Paul would all of a sudden come

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Speaker 1: wheeling over. It's like no, no no, no, we're not doing

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Speaker 1: that yet and uh, and Ringo tells the story where

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Speaker 1: he says, you know, Sergeant Pepper was great, but I

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Speaker 1: learned to play chess on it because there was so

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Speaker 1: much time to kill in between takes that it was

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Speaker 1: just there was nothing to really do. And also George

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Speaker 1: had just come back from from India right before the

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Speaker 1: session started, where it was his first experience out there.

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Speaker 1: He's getting deep into the music and uh and religion

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Speaker 1: of the region, and all of a sudden he came

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Speaker 1: back into the sort of industrial Abbey Roads studio with

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Speaker 1: the fluorescent lights and Paul telling him what to do.

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Speaker 1: And he later said, you know, I was losing interest

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Speaker 1: and being fab at that point and it just wasn't

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Speaker 1: his heart really wasn't there. And and also they rejected

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Speaker 1: his song too, Let's not forget about that. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was only a northern song, which I think ended up

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Speaker 1: on like the Yellow Submarine soundtrack. That exactly they basically

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Speaker 1: throwing it in in the Hudson River, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: Beatle equivalent of that. But uh, yeah, they rejected that song.

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Speaker 1: But then he came back with with within You Without You,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a superior song, you know, be

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Speaker 1: fair to only a Northern song, and you know it's

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Speaker 1: an example of hikaio. George Harrison didn't get a lot

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Speaker 1: of real estate Beatles records, but with that song and

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Speaker 1: I Guess Love You Too, which was on Revolver, are

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Speaker 1: you know, as responsible as any songs for introducing you know,

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Speaker 1: the sounds of India in sit tar music into rock

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Speaker 1: and roll. I mean, I I don't know if there's

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Speaker 1: I guess like Brian Jones playing on Black Black would

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Speaker 1: be would be the other, you know, person to to

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Speaker 1: bring that in. But I mean I feel like George Harrison, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there are two sounds that you think of

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Speaker 1: when you think of sixties music. It's a sitar and

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Speaker 1: then you think of the chiming twelve string, which was

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Speaker 1: also George's rickenbacker. So really, when you think about the

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Speaker 1: sounds of the sixties are his instruments, absolutely, and you

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Speaker 1: feel like he wanted to bring that more into the

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Speaker 1: band than they would allow. I mean, obviously, you know

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Speaker 1: you mentioned he took that India trip before Sergeant Pepper.

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Speaker 1: Then there was like the really famous India trip where

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Speaker 1: they went to see the Maharishi, and like all the

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Speaker 1: Beatles went there where they ended up writing most of

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Speaker 1: the White Album basically when they were there. Although George,

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Speaker 1: it's like I was pissed that they were writing songs,

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Speaker 1: even snap, we're not here to do the next album,

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Speaker 1: even snap at Paul right right, It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's because you know, Paul can only meditate for so long.

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Speaker 1: He had to like think of like the next record.

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Speaker 1: I read some Beatle book where he was recounting this story.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Peter Doggetts book You Never Give

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Speaker 1: Me Your Money, which is a fabulous book. It's about

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Speaker 1: the post breakup years of the Beatles. Um, and Paul's

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Speaker 1: kind of the story. He says, excuse me for breathing,

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Speaker 1: just like such a like teenage girl, you know response

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Speaker 1: to that, you know, like even just thinking about that

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Speaker 1: in retrospect, that was like really annoying for him. That

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Speaker 1: was hilarious. Um. But yeah, then like Lennon wrote Sexy

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Speaker 1: Say to You when he was there, which was like

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Speaker 1: a shot the Maharishi, and I don't think Harrison was

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Speaker 1: I mean Harrison I think was still because it was

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Speaker 1: the whole sex scandal with the Maharishi, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've have you ever heard the

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that that was like trumped up by famous

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Speaker 1: John Lennon associate Magic Alex. Oh, yeah, I still because yeah,

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Speaker 1: the story was that Mari she maybe hit on Mia

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Speaker 1: Farah was also studying there. But yeah, right, But Magic

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Speaker 1: and Spitz is book, Bob Spitz's book The Beatles, which

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Speaker 1: is a great Beatles biography. If you haven't read it,

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Speaker 1: you know, we talked about it in our previous episode.

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Speaker 1: Spits basically says that he feels that the Maharishi, that

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Speaker 1: that story might not have happened, or at least it

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Speaker 1: was highly in doubt that he actually, like I was

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Speaker 1: hitting on women, or that he maybe you know, took

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Speaker 1: liberties with someone he shouldn't have. And he felt that

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Speaker 1: it was John Lennon's famously insane associate, Magic Alex, who

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Speaker 1: was supposedly this like electronics wizard but was really just

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Speaker 1: like a lunatic. Basically like he was supposed to build

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Speaker 1: a studio for the Beatles, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: basically like a box of like copper wires and that

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Speaker 1: was it. You know, like a toilet and stuff. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But that Magic Alex like wanted to get John away

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00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: from the Maharishi because he felt like the Maharishi was

425
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: usurping his own sort of hold over John Lennon, so

426
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: he made up this story about the Maharishi. Anyway, Well,

427
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: that's a big tangent. Maybe that will be for our

428
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: Magic Alex Versus Mahaishi Rivalries podcast. But because I hadn't

429
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: read that before, I was really intrigued when I read

430
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: that and spits his book. But anyway, I mean that

431
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 1: sets the table for the White Album, which of course

432
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 1: is like a famously fractious period in Beatles history. Oh yeah,

433
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned the walm My guitar gently Waves

434
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: saga Um also recorded around this time. Wasn't for the album, though,

435
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: was Hey Jude Paul's incredible sweeping seven and a half

436
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 1: minute single uh, one of the more perfect Beatles singles ever,

437
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 1: the longest charting number one in the US. Uh. Paul

438
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: is starting to record it and George starts to play

439
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: a little echoing guitar riffs, and Paul ursa, Mrs George,

440
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: don't play not now? Wait a couple of wait a

441
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: couple of verses. George never forgot that that really stuck

442
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: in his crawl, like being told by Paul not to

443
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 1: play right now, and uh, and Paul even in later

444
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: years to said, wow, you know, telling the great George

445
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: Harrison guitarists extraordinary not to play. I can see how

446
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: now looking back on it probably reads wrong, but uh,

447
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, objectively for the song was right there, totally right.

448
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: It's gotta be said, you don't need One of the

449
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: great parts of that song is that it's just McCartney

450
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: at the beginning with the piano, and it just builds

451
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,199
Speaker 1: to that. I mean, I don't need to explain why

452
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: Hey Jude is good. It's like, you, guys, there's a song,

453
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 1: Hey Jude. It's like a really cool song. This is

454
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: why it's good. But you know, like we all know

455
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: why it's good, so we'll just leave it at that.

456
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: But so there's that thing with McCartney. But then like

457
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: Lennon isn't even showing up to play on Harrison's songs

458
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: at that time, right, No, yeah, he was barely there

459
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: for any of Harrison's songs. And then when he was

460
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: there he brought Yoka, which is a whole other thing,

461
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: which I know we touched on in the last episode,

462
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's a whole other thing

463
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: with the Yoko thing. But it's just like another sign

464
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: of like this sort of disrespect coming from you know,

465
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: like McCartney saying don't play. I'll tell you when I

466
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: want you to play, and then John Lennon's like, well,

467
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to show up for your seconds.

468
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: You know, that's how much your songs mean to me. Um.

469
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: And you know, we're moving into the period where Harrison

470
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: is really coming into his own as a songwriter. I

471
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 1: mean we mentioned, well my guitar gently weeps, you know,

472
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: as we moved in a Night nine. We're gonna have

473
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: songs like something and Here Comes the Sun, as well

474
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: as like a lot of the great songs that ended

475
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: up on All Things Must Pass, you know, which it

476
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: must be said, didn't end up on Beatles records as

477
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: songs like Maxwell silver Hammer, did you know, which is

478
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: kind of insane to think about. Oh yeah, I mean

479
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: there's there's outakes from the Let It Be Uh film

480
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: where George starts to play stuff like isn't it a pity?

481
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: And let It Down? And like you said, all these

482
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: songs from all things mus past, and the Beatles are

483
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: just on the other side of the room, like barely

484
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: even listening. It's really it's really sad. Yeah. And as

485
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: we said, like there was that incident where Harrison finally

486
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 1: got fed up during the let It B sessions and

487
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: he left. Do you remember what he said he left?

488
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny, he said. He storms out and

489
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: just over his shoulder, goes see around the clubs at

490
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,360
Speaker 1: what an exit line? See you around the clubs um.

491
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: And then he goes home and he writes this song

492
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: called Wawa, one of my favorite George songs. Yeah, And

493
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: like you look at the song on paper, it sounds

494
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: like a terrible idea because like wah wah is like

495
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: it's a baby sound. Is this supposed to be like

496
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: a word? It's a baby sound? Yeah, And it's like

497
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: you're giving me like a headache basically by being really annoying.

498
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: And on paper it just seems like, oh, he's like

499
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: a rock star complaining about other rock stars. But it's

500
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: a great song and it has a great George Harrison

501
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: guitar riff on it. It ends up I think being

502
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: like one of the great songs on All Things Must Pass.

503
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally so. So he's at home writing a

504
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 1: song slacking off his bandmates. John, who by this at

505
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: this point is really deep into his hairin addiction and

506
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: probably isn't completely there. I think semi seriously suggests, well,

507
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: all right, if George doesn't come back in a couple

508
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: of days, we'll get clapped in in to replace him.

509
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, it's like, I mean, you know, based

510
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: on what you've read, do you think he was serious

511
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: or kidding? Because, like, I know, like like the Bob

512
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: Spits book, for instance, he suggests that Lennon was serious

513
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: enough to at least consider it. Like, I don't know

514
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: if they would have actually hired Eric Clapton if Harrison

515
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: had stayed gone from the band. Um, But it didn't

516
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: seem like he was terribly emotionally, you know, upset that

517
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: that Harrison left. You know, maybe again that was because

518
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: he was on Heroin all the time. I think it

519
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: was just knocked up. Yeah, yeah, but I mean it

520
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: does again kind of speak to I guess these guys

521
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 1: taking him for granted. I mean, do you, I mean,

522
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: do you feel like they didn't really appreciate George oh yeah,

523
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: and I mean because yeah, I mean just to even

524
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: say that is so and you look, you really have

525
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: to look. And I'm excited to see what the new

526
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: Let It Be that's come out later this year shows,

527
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: because yeah, some of the bootlegs I've seen from the sessions,

528
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: they're just not even listening to him. It's it's really her.

529
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: And the songs are great. I mean that the songs

530
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: you know, from All Things must pass too. So I

531
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: think he was totally ignored, under appreciated, and uh, and

532
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: he really only came back when he had all these

533
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: demands of like, Okay, we're not gonna Paul's gotta lay off,

534
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: We're not going to do for the Let It Be documentary,

535
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: We're not gonna do some big concert somewhere like the

536
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: far furthest all goes up to the roof, you know,

537
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: like he sort of set his terms for returning, just

538
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: like to finish up what they were, what they were doing. Really,

539
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't even think at that point George meant to

540
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: stay that much longer. And yeah he did at least,

541
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, through Abbey Road, and again Ebbey Road ends

542
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: up being in a way George Harrison coming out party.

543
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: You know, as a great songwriter, because if you like,

544
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: what are the biggest songs from that record that you

545
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: think of immediately when you think of Abbey Road, I

546
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: mean there's come together obviously, but like what are the

547
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: other ones? I mean something and here comes the Sun?

548
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: Those are? You know, stands up and it says something

549
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: is the is the first non Lennon McCartney a side

550
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: that the Beatles has ever had. And it's interesting because

551
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: like I've read, you know again, various Beatles books and

552
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: you hear documentaries, and I've I've seen examples of like

553
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney taking credit for suggesting something as a single,

554
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: and I've seen Yoko Ono say that it was John's idea.

555
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: So like there's competing camps and Lennon McCartney trying to

556
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: take credit for George w Yeah, it's like we're acknowledging,

557
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, one of us acknowledge the greatness finally of Harrison.

558
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,479
Speaker 1: At this time, I will say to like, the bass

559
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: playing on something by McCartney, I think is incredible, But

560
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: isn't it true that like Harrison resented the bass playing

561
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: a little bit. I kind of agree. It's sort of

562
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: like busy because I guess now that that the she

563
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: was on the other foot, George was in a position

564
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: to tell Paul what to play, and I guess George

565
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: like nit picked his bass playing for hours and hours

566
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: and hours, and they're recording it, and Paul put down

567
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: this insanely busy bass part, and I've never been able

568
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: to figure out if it's Paul trying to like bring

569
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: out his best for his friend and his great new song,

570
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: or if it's Paul just like showboating, because yeah, George

571
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: later said there's a lot of notes in that part.

572
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: I think that's what he said. I love it, I

573
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: mean because there's basically like a bass solo in the

574
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: middle of the song, like while George is playing this

575
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: guitar solo, Like Paul's bass solo is like more virtuosic

576
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: than the cold our solo, and it really does upstage it.

577
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: I guess in a way, like if I was George,

578
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: i'd be annoyed. But I mean, I love McCartney's bass

579
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: playing in general, and I think Mabby road his bass

580
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: playing is unbelievable. It must have also annoyed George when

581
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra called something the greatest love song of like

582
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: the last fifty years, like when it came out. But

583
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: then he also said it was a Lennon McCartney song.

584
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: Even when he has this huge hit that becomes a

585
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: standard that's like covered by everybody, he still can't get

586
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: all the credit he deserves. Did that Oh wow? Yeah?

587
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: I mean it's like that was the world's reaction to

588
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: that song. Now, obviously the Beads they break up in

589
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, and then later on in seventy Harrison puts out,

590
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: I guess it's his third solo record. It's his first

591
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: post Beatles solo record. The first two uh, like one's

592
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: a soundtrack and one is like this experimental album essentially, um,

593
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: neither are really kind of like commercial rock records. But

594
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: then he puts out all Things Must Pass, And I

595
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: think you and I have like slightly different opinions well

596
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 1: on this record, like like, like, what do you think

597
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: of this? I love the I love the first two

598
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: discs of the record. I don't know, I am not

599
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: the world's biggest fan of Thanks for the Pepperoni. I

600
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: I almost feel like he mad. He decided to make

601
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: it a triple disc just to make a point. I

602
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: feel like it didn't necessarily need to be a triple disc.

603
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: And and again, I'm a guy who loves the fact

604
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: that the White Album is a double disc. I'm not,

605
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, for paring down Beetle records. But I almost

606
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: was like, all right, yeah, the Beatles did a double record,

607
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna do a triple record. And obviously he

608
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: had this huge store of songs that were dating back

609
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: probably with the Revolver sessions. But and I almost think

610
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: he wanted to prove a point to land U McCartney was, Look,

611
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: I had all this stuff to say, and you wouldn't

612
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: let me say it, and now you're gonna sit through

613
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: it three records worth. That's what I took it as.

614
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: So I thought that the kind of apple Jam stuff

615
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: was a little superfluous for me. See, Okay, I agree

616
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: with everything you just said. I agree that he was

617
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: trying to make a point. I agree that, like, there's

618
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: a lot of access on that record. It's also like

619
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: one of my favorite albums of all time. Um, there's

620
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: only about maybe three or four Beatles albums that I

621
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: like more than All Things Must Pass. I would say

622
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: it's definitely my favorite Beatles solo record, Like Heads and

623
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: shoulders above the rest and um the access part. Well,

624
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: first of all, you know, we kind of skipped over

625
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: the first two discs of that record because I think

626
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: it's all heaters for the most part. You to make

627
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: the argument that there's like a lot of like stately

628
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: mid tempo songs where there's like twelve people playing it

629
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: once and there is maybe sort of a semi nous

630
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: to it, but like what is life my sweet lord

631
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: wa wa be aware of darkness? About of Sir Frankie Crisp,

632
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Let it roll? Um just just heat or after heater.

633
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: And you know, we touched on this in the previous episode,

634
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: like it was so different from what Lennon and McCartney

635
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: were doing on their solo records, where you know, McCartney

636
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: puts out the Bullet Cherry's record, as we discussed in

637
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: the previous episode, this homie, you know, sort of intentionally rough,

638
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: almost like deliberately amateurish sounding record, and then you have

639
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: like the primal Scream record from John Lennon Plastic Oh

640
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: No Band. They're going about it in two totally different ways,

641
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: but they're both, I guess, in a way trying to

642
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: de mythologize the Beatles, you know, scale down the great

643
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: heights that they had achieved, like on Abbey Road and

644
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper, Whereas Harrison's like, I'm gonna like raise the

645
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: anti on those records. I'm gonna like not just have

646
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: you know, all these musicians playing on this record. I'm

647
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: gonna feel specter produce it, and then I'm gonna have

648
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: an album of like ten minute jams. You know that.

649
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: By the way, the Apple Jams section I think of

650
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: All Things Must Pass is the most coked up music

651
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: of all time. Like you can hear the nostrils flaring

652
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: amidst all those like Endless tar. It's like it's kind

653
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: of like why I like it. I mean, I don't

654
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: want to like glamorize this sort of thing too much,

655
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: but like you know, like Eric Clapton played on those sessions,

656
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: it's actually the beginnings of like Derek and the Domino's

657
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: like that band played on All Things Must Pass, And

658
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: he tells a story about how he got hooked on

659
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: heroin at this time because there was a drug dealer

660
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: that would come around to the studio where they were

661
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: making All Things Must Pass, and in order to buy

662
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: cocaine you had to also buy heroin. It was sort

663
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: of like a two for one deal, like a the

664
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: most illicit grocery store of all time. Like what a

665
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: great guy, by the way, drug dealer, What a nice guys.

666
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: But that's what was going on at this time. I

667
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: mean George was really I think he was feeling himself

668
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: at this time. It's like that that album was a

669
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: huge hit. You know, My Sweet Lord was a number

670
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: one song, and he really came out of the gate

671
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: and the Beatles is like he had like the biggest

672
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: solo career, like in that first year, like he was

673
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: the biggest solo star really at that time. Oh yeah,

674
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: I mean his high water mark I think was the

675
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: concert for Bangladesh. Like that's the moment when he was

676
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: center stage as you know, the King Beatle, when when

677
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: John and Paul were kind of squabbling and releasing albums

678
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: that seemed like you said, almost intentionally amateur ish. He

679
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: came out, got all of his you know, superstar friends

680
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: to back him, and yeah, that was in class. Russell

681
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: was there. Dylan shows up. He hadn't been on stage

682
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: I think since six I think that was his first

683
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: time since the Hawks tour. He comes out, Yeah, like

684
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: he was able to pull that together, and you know,

685
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: I think Lennon and McCartney were jealous. I mean, there

686
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: was there's a quote from Lenin from around this time

687
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: where he says, this is a quote I don't consider

688
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: my talents fantastic compared with the universe, but I considered

689
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: George's less then. Oh man, So he's saying like it's like, yeah,

690
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm not the greatest thing in the world, but I'm

691
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: at least better than George Harrison, Like you know, that's

692
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: that's the gist of that. And then he says, this

693
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: is actually kind of a funny quote the cover of

694
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: All Things Must Pass. He says that George looks like

695
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: an asthmatic Leon Russell on the cover, So I mean,

696
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: just pure hate ration, you know, like this guy is

697
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: doing great and I'm not doing as well as him

698
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 1: right now, and you know, just just serving the hater

699
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: kool aid. At that point, well towards George. The Concertence

700
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: Bank that started a kind of a weird thing between

701
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: John and George because George asked John he has all

702
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: the ex Beatles to join. Paul said no, John was

703
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: gonna do it, but then George hadn't asked Yoko, and

704
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: Yoko was basically like, what about me and George Sam

705
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 1: not not you, Yoko, but but John You're welcome. And

706
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: Yoko was like, John, You're not seriously thinking of doing

707
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: the show without me, are you? And John was like, uh,

708
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: it's almost like a curb episode. So John backed out

709
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: because Yoko wasn't wasn't invited, which you know understandably created

710
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: some tension between the two, especially after George played the

711
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: slide solo on the on the Paul Bashing song how

712
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: do You Sleep? Oh Yeah, which yeah, we talked about

713
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: that a lot in the last episode and yeah, just

714
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: one of the most vicious disc tracts of all time

715
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,760
Speaker 1: written by John Lennon towards George Harrison. It is funny

716
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: to me that George would play on that song even

717
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: where even like when John was still belittling him in

718
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: the press, Like, I don't know exactly what the timeline

719
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: was on all this, or if George was aware of it.

720
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I do know that eventually there was a

721
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: falling out with George and John, and I mean for

722
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: a long time, I think in the Beatles, like George

723
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: and John we're closer than like certainly George and Paul

724
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: were like George and John. You know, I did a

725
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: lot of acid together around the same time. And George

726
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: just said that, like there was a period it where

727
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: he felt like they were equals, you know, because they

728
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: were doing acid all the time and they'd have these

729
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: really intense experiences together. But then, of course that that

730
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: feeling didn't really last. And I think, you know, by

731
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: the early seventies, I think George was starting to feel again.

732
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: I think he was feeling his oats. Uh. There's a

733
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: great story too about how like McCartney wanted to get

734
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: off of Apple, like he wanted to put his records

735
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: out on a different record label, and and he tells us,

736
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: tells us that George, and George says, you'll stay on

737
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: the fucking label. Harry Krishna slam, I mean that's what

738
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: Paul said. I mean, I don't know if George ever

739
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: confirmed that he said that. But you know, George has

740
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: this period again like in nearly seventies, like where he

741
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: is a huge star, but then really like by the

742
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: mid seventies, it starts to turn bad for George. And

743
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: of course Paul was really becoming a big star at

744
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: that point. But this was also like when sort of

745
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: like the legal entanglements of the Beatles, We're finally starting

746
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: to come to an end, right, Yeah. I mean this

747
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: is when George had dark Horse, which is you know,

748
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: just that's how he identified himself in the Beatles as

749
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: the dark Horse that was that would sort of come

750
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: out ahead and it's it's a good album. It suffers

751
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: because he had laryngitis during this time, so he sounds

752
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: really he sounds literally Horse on the dark Horse album. Uh,

753
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: and it was kind of a weird seller. And he

754
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: did this strange tour that I think also had Robbie

755
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: Shankar open for him. And is is that the tour

756
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: where he did the in My Life cover? Yeah? Okay,

757
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: yeah exactly, and yeah, like the just to go back

758
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: to dark Horse for a quick minute, because like, I

759
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: like that record a lot. I think it's an interesting

760
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: choice that he chose to like put that album out

761
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: because if you haven't heard it, you need to listen

762
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: to it. Because his voice, I'm just trying to like

763
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: describe it. I mean, he's like barking the songs. He

764
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like Bob Dylan in like the two

765
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: thousand tents, you know, like yeah, like a seven indis

766
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: Ca seventies something, you know, Bob Dylan, And this is

767
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: like George Harrison. I don't even know if he he.

768
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: I think he had maybe just turned thirty, you know,

769
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: like he just sounds shot. Um. But yeah, like he

770
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: did this, He did this tour where he's like really

771
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: skinny and looks unhealthy. I think he was really abusing

772
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: coke at that time, um, which I think also contributed

773
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: to his vocals being pretty shot. And he does this

774
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: cover of in My Life, which is of course is

775
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: a famous Lennon McCartney song I think mainly written by

776
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: John Lennon. At the end, instead of saying, you know,

777
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: like I love you more, he says I love God more.

778
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: And it just ends up being this sort of sign

779
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: to people like, oh, George Harrison has lost his damn mind,

780
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: you know, because he was doing like weird like reggae

781
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: versions of like what Is Life and like some of

782
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: those other songs like just really bizarre arrangements that didn't

783
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: work at all, um, And it seem like he was

784
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: like really fading commercially, it seems like at that time.

785
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: So it's in the midst of all this that the

786
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: Beatles like breakup paperwork is finally officially ready to go,

787
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: and they have it all laid out the Plaza Hotel.

788
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: They've got George's coming to sign it, Ringo is coming

789
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: to sign it, Paul's coming to sign it. John lives

790
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: literally across the street at Dakota, across Central Park. Always

791
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: to come is walk down the road and sign it.

792
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: He won't come, he said, his astrologers tells him the

793
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: stars aren't right to sign this paperwork. And George went

794
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: nuts on him. Apparently it was like a huge things,

795
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: like just huge, so badly one of the Beatles things

796
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: to be end and just be over and behind him,

797
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: be done, and and and John just wouldn't come down

798
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: the street to sign the paperwork. Yeah, And it just

799
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: seemed like another instance, I'm sure in his mind of like, oh,

800
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: this is just like when you didn't show up to

801
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: play on I mean mine or whatever in the late sixties,

802
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: Like you can't be bothered to accommodate me at all, um,

803
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: And it's you know, we talked in the previous episode

804
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: about how like you know, like Lennon and McCartney were

805
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: able to reconcile somewhat, you know, by you know, by

806
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: the time Lennon ended up being murdered. I feel like

807
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: this was like really kind of the end of their contact.

808
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that they're really reconciled after this, No,

809
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: absolutely not. I mean, and George wrote a memoir in

810
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine called I'my Mine, which is this really

811
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: weird book. It's like, remember remember buying it and being

812
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: like really disappointed because it's sort of like it's like

813
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of like liner notes meets like you know,

814
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: like tab pages meet you know, like meets like lyric sheets.

815
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: It's it's not really like a coherent book. No, And

816
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: it's again it's it's like not nowhere near a real biography.

817
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: But the Beatles are barely mentioned, and John's I think

818
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: his name is in there, maybe ones I forget. John

819
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: takes huge offense to this, and which is weird when

820
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: you can sell, like you just said, it's not really

821
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: a biography. It's a very strange book. It kind of

822
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: makes sense that he's not mentioned much in it, Like

823
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: nobody's mentioned much in it, exapt like God and George himself. Um,

824
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: but that really hurt John's feelings and really to the

825
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: end of his life that was kind of like the

826
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: last the thing that was in the air between the

827
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: two of them was was how much he resented George

828
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: for not mentioning him and crediting him more. In in

829
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: his memoir it does he say something like, you know,

830
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: there's like every two bit sax player that ever was

831
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: on a George Harrison record has mentioned in this book.

832
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: But I'm like in there once and it's like I

833
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: helped him write tax Man, damn it, and he's got

834
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: every sax player that ever backed him. Yeah, No, he was.

835
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: He was really pissed about that, which, you know, on

836
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: one hand, you could say, you know, John, come on,

837
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: like this is sort of like another instance and we

838
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 1: talked about this in the previous episode of John being

839
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: this fascinating combination of like extremely confident in his own

840
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: ability and also extremely insecure here and that really comes

841
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: out in his relationships with certainly with Paul into a

842
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: lesser degree George, who seems like, you know, he had

843
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: to assert his dominance on George all the time and

844
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: remind George that he was, you know, not as good

845
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: as him. So then George kind of gives it back

846
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: to him in his own book by ignoring him, and

847
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: John can't take it, you know. And there's maybe in

848
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: Harrison's mind, maybe an element of revenge there, I wonder,

849
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean think all the us that John

850
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: didn't show up to his sessions, and when he was

851
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: going out on dates with his girlfriend, George will be

852
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: following behind him, and he'd be like, oh, don't look,

853
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 1: George's following me. Gone, keep going, keep going. Yeah, it

854
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: was John ignored George so often in the studio and

855
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: in personal lives, so it makes total sense. We're gonna

856
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: take a quick break and get a word from our

857
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: sponsor before we get two more rivals. So John, of

858
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: course is in December of eight. Terrible tragedy. As we

859
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: said before, You know, McCartney and Lennon were able to

860
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: established like a kind of rapport in the mid sevenies.

861
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: They busy each other. It seemed like they have a

862
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: good time. You know. Again, I keep thinking of the

863
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: v H one movie where they get stoned and listened

864
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: to reggae bands in the park. I don't think that

865
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: actually happened. But you know, they said they had a

866
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: good time. They weren't. They weren't that fun, but they

867
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: were still having a good time. Um, Harrison didn't really

868
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: achieve that kind of piece, but then he did. He

869
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: did write a song that came out. I think it's

870
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: an eighty one that song all those years ago, which

871
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: is an interesting song. It's just it was gonna be

872
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: a Ringo song, and then after and then after John

873
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: was shot, they made it into a tribute for him,

874
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: and it was actually it was a Beatles reunion song

875
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: sort of. They got Paul to do bass and backing

876
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: vocals and Ringo played drums on it. It's it's kind

877
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: of chipper for attribute song, which I think, yeah, it's

878
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, well, because McCartney had a song around the

879
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: same time called Here Today, which is on the Tug

880
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: of War album that George Martin produced, and that is

881
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: it's basically like a Yesterday rewrite, you know, acoustic guitar

882
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: with like a string section. It is more of like

883
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: a straightforward, you know, emotional type tribute, whereas Harrison's it

884
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 1: is almost like a Buddhist type tribute where you know,

885
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: you're accepting, yeah, like you're accepting like that loss is

886
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: a part of life and you're not just dwelling on

887
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: your sadness that you're you know, almost being joyful about

888
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: your friend passing to another dimension or something. Um So,

889
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean it seems like at least in death, he

890
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: started to have some warm feelings towards John. It's interesting too,

891
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: because like in the eighties, the eighties were actually a

892
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: pretty good decade for George Harrison, especially towards the end

893
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: of the eighties, um in a way that they weren't

894
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: for McCartney. I feel like McCartney like is putting out

895
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: like Pressed the Play in like the late eighties. All

896
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 1: the Flowers in the Dirty Things is a pretty good record,

897
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: but like Pressed the Play, I feel because like definitely

898
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: like a neighder for for him, whereas George has the

899
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: aforementioned Cloud nine record, and then he knows in the

900
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 1: Traveling Willberries, And I was wondering, like if the Traveling

901
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: Willberries were like his way of like reliving the Beatles experience,

902
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: but like with more actual friends. Yeah, exactly, It's like

903
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: I can be experience. Yeah, it's like these are all

904
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: famous people like me, but like we're actually bros and

905
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: we can have a good time. And like, you know,

906
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan was in that band, you know, his old

907
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,919
Speaker 1: songwriting partner from you know, twenty years earlier. It's like, Hey, Paul,

908
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: you're not going to be in the Traveling Willberries because

909
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: you've never right with me. But I'm gonna bring Bob

910
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: Dylan into my band because he right with me. Man,

911
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: when George is having hits around this time and Paul,

912
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: I guess would kind of make over chers are saying, oh, yeah, George,

913
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: we should write together. And then George would go in

914
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: the press and say, yeah, Paul must all right with me.

915
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: I don't know what, like why now, Like if I

916
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: was there for thirty years and he never wanted to

917
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: write with me, but now I'm starting to like, do okay,

918
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: Paul's write with me again. Well, then they ended up

919
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: dot better. I mean, they did come together eventually in

920
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: the nineties with the Anthology Project, and they recorded some

921
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: old you know, John Lennon demos essentially, I don't know,

922
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: like what do you think of those songs? Like Free

923
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: as a Bird in Real Love were the two songs

924
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: that came out of that. I mean, I I sort

925
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: of forget them. I mean, in a way, I'm glad

926
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: they existed. I'm glad that at least the three of

927
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: them had that moment together. But I in terms of

928
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: just what they add to the Beatles legacy musically, I

929
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: I don't really I don't really rank them much, but

930
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: it goes. I was like, George absolutely hated the experience

931
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: of the studio though all the old wounds with Paul

932
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 1: came right back, right well, yeah, because I mean Paul

933
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: was basically trying to dictate the sessions, just like he

934
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: did in the sixties, right, yeah, I mean, but George

935
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: agreed to do it because he needed money because his

936
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: his um his film studio was was just hemorrhaging money.

937
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: So he agreed to do it, but he had terms,

938
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: and one of the terms was getting Jeff lynn Is

939
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: traveling Wolberry Buddy to to produce it. And and they

940
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: sort of laid down all these kind of ground rules.

941
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, George said it was like being a Beatle again,

942
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: and he didn't mean it in a good way at all,

943
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: Like they when they were tackling Free as a Bird.

944
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: Paul wanted it to be this like big, lush orchestral track,

945
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: and then George kind of wanted it to be what

946
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 1: it became. Really, it's almost like a slide guitar heavy,

947
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: almost like a my Sweet Lord Reduct sort of song. Right.

948
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: And it's interesting too that by getting Linda to produce it,

949
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: those songs sound like late period George Harrison songs, you know,

950
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: even though he didn't sing them like they have the

951
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: sound of like Cloud nine in the Traveling Wilbury's records. Uh,

952
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, so as much like Paul might have wanted

953
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: to be in control, they weirdly sound like George Harrison songs,

954
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, as much as anyone. I gotta say to like,

955
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: you know, as we were getting ready for this series,

956
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: you know, I know you did the same thing. Like

957
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: I rewatched Beatles Anthology and Harrison is like maybe my favorite.

958
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: He's great. Like one of my favorite parts of that

959
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: of that series is like where he's talking about you

960
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: know this well no, I was gonna say, like when

961
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: they were just talking about the songwriting situation and like

962
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 1: how he had to start from nothing and he was

963
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: trying to assert himself, you know, in the mid sixties,

964
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 1: and he just has this line where he says, you know,

965
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: I had to come up with something that could fit

966
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 1: next to there are many wondrous hits, and he says

967
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: it was like this little smirk. It's so dry and perfect,

968
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, just this idea. Again, this is like many

969
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 1: years later, this is like, you know, him being reviewed

970
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: in the early nineties. It's still sticking in his craw

971
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: that you know, he's going to be compared to these

972
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: guys all the time, and he has to have, you know,

973
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: sort of the the image of Lennon McCartney hanging over

974
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: his head no matter what he does. In in every

975
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: interview post nineteen seventies seventy one, he gives you the

976
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: impression that being in the Beatles was the worst thing

977
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: that ever happened to him, Like it was a giant trauma,

978
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: like I really if you go all the way through,

979
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: and in the apology too, he has like very little

980
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: nice to say about it. And even at the end

981
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: to when like they're kind of giving the final episode,

982
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: they're giving their like final thoughts and ringoes talking about

983
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot of really kind loving moments

984
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: between four people. And and Paul was doing his thing

985
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 1: and talking about what a great little rock and roll

986
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: band they were, and he I think that what would

987
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: he say something Beatles gave their nervous system, which was like,

988
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, I gave so much of myself. Yeah, you

989
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: really get the experience that it was something that he

990
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: really didn't like and never recovered from and even thirty

991
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: years later. I think this that's part of the contradiction

992
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: of him in a way, because I know, I'm sure

993
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: this is there's a big part of him that felt

994
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: that way that being a Beatle was a burden and

995
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: it uh, you know, it was detrimental to his nervous

996
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: system and all that stuff. But also he was the

997
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: guy that also seemed most comfortable growing it up with

998
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: other rock stars. And I guess I think of like

999
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: the traveling Wilbury is being a big example of that

1000
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: UM in a way that I don't think John and

1001
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: Paul necessarily are, you know, and I in a way

1002
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: it probably has something to do with Harrison, I think

1003
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: ultimately being most comfortable in the band. And again I

1004
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: think that's another irony of his career. Where as great

1005
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: as he could be as a solo artist, he does

1006
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: seem like someone best suited for collaboration, like where he

1007
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: can be around other creative people and he can contribute

1008
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: what he can contribute and also benefit from other people. UM,

1009
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: because you can see a solo career a pretty big

1010
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: drop off after he put out he puts out All

1011
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: Things Must Pass, which is essentially material that he accumulated

1012
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: when he was in the orbit of Lennon and McCartney,

1013
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: and then his next solo records. There's some really good

1014
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: stuff on some of those records, but they're not nearly

1015
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: as good, and then he's also not as prolific for

1016
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: a long time after that. And as much as he

1017
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: might have hated being in that environment, it's hard to

1018
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 1: argue that he didn't benefit tremendously as an artist from

1019
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: being in that environment as well. Yeah, I mean, it

1020
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 1: almost seems like he'd proven his point and he lost

1021
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: interest in that side I think. I mean, he was

1022
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: very busy in the late seventies doing stuff with Monty

1023
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: Python on film production work, Formula one racing and all.

1024
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: He has a lot of things to keep him busy,

1025
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: but it almost seemed like he needed that. I always

1026
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: thought of All Things Must Pass as being like a

1027
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: spite album, like one of the great spite albums of

1028
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: all time. All three albums are three discs worth, and

1029
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: almost felt like he needed to brush up against Lennon

1030
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: and m carton to to to spur him to those heights. Yeah,

1031
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, when we think about I guess like the

1032
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: end of Harrison's life, you know, which came in two

1033
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: thousand one, it's so sad to me. I mean, this

1034
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: is like another way that he's linked with the other Beatles,

1035
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: because of course, you know, Lennin was brutally murdered five

1036
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: supposed fan of Night and then Harrison is also attacked

1037
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: his home a person when in his home, and I mean,

1038
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: was the person a fan of his attacked him? What

1039
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: it was? I think he definitely had some kind of

1040
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 1: mental illness. I forget what is rationale was though I

1041
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: think he was a fan. But like we all love

1042
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and yet like two of the Beatles like

1043
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: were brutally attacked, and like Harrison survived his attack, but

1044
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: he was already in the throes of, you know, fighting

1045
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: cancer at that time. And you know, like when you

1046
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: watch that great Martin Scorsese documentary about George Harris and

1047
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: Um called Living in the Material World, is it? You know,

1048
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: Danny his son says basically, like, you know, I feel

1049
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 1: like that attack took a lot out of him and

1050
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: it was hard for him to you know, basically keep

1051
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: that fight up for his health after that, which you know,

1052
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: of course makes all the sense in the world that

1053
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: that would happen. Um, it's so sad to me that,

1054
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: like there's that echo between John and George, you know,

1055
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: like these guys that we all love, Like, why would

1056
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: they be attacked? You know, It's just such a bummer

1057
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: to me standing for love and peace. Yeah, it's really

1058
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: really one of the cruelest diaronies of the whole saga

1059
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: Beetles saga that that was how that was the faith

1060
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: that befell both of them, I mean, and yeah, I

1061
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 1: mean that attack was absolutely vicious. That that's Corsse movie.

1062
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever watched it with and and

1063
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: not not gotten choked up or sobbed. That is an

1064
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: incredible documentary, highly recommended and saying it, I mean, the

1065
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: last time I saw it, I totally got Joe up

1066
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: at the part where Tom Petty tells a story about

1067
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: George Harrison calling him up to say to tell him

1068
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: that Roy Orbison has died, and George Harrison says to

1069
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: Tom Petty, aren't you glad it's not you? And that

1070
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: was like not a dry eye, and the Steve Hiden

1071
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: household Larner, because it's like Tom Petty saying, aren't you

1072
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: glad it's not you? Of course Tom Petty is not

1073
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: with us, George Harrison is not with us, and you

1074
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: know Roberson died, and you know thirty some years ago.

1075
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: Do we need to take a moment? I feel like

1076
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 1: there's lots of tears on this podcast. Uh well, the

1077
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 1: thing that, yeah, well, the thing that makes me feel

1078
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: a little better about all of this and and makes

1079
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: the tears go a little bit is that Paul and

1080
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,919
Speaker 1: George kind of by the end of George, like, George

1081
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: knew he had limited time left and he didn't want

1082
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: what happened with John to happen with him and Paul,

1083
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: so they kind of patch things up and they had

1084
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: a nice moment before before he went. So I as

1085
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: a fan, I hold onto that. And I know, like

1086
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: when I saw McCartney last time played live, which was

1087
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, he was still playing something

1088
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: in his set, like like in the ukulele, which is

1089
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: something he's done for a really long time, and I

1090
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: think there was a picture of George on the screen.

1091
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,439
Speaker 1: I don't remember there being a similar moment for John

1092
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: Lennon in the set, I think, you know, he didn't

1093
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 1: take a moment to pay tribute to John Lennon. He

1094
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: was still doing that for George though, and I think

1095
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: it's worth remembering, you know, it was a reminder that,

1096
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: you know, they were mates before there was a Beatles,

1097
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: you know, like he was friends with George before he

1098
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 1: knew John, I think, and certainly before George knew John.

1099
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: So really like a lifelong friend who had passed and

1100
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 1: that clearly still meant a lot to him. Um, as

1101
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: we look at like this relationship between you know, Lennon,

1102
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: McCartney and Harrison, it really is a fascinating dynamic because

1103
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: you think of George Harrison is being this iconic, legendary figure,

1104
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: you know, who takes a back seat no one except

1105
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,919
Speaker 1: these two guys, and it happens to be the two

1106
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: guys who are in the band that he's most famous for.

1107
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: And it it's such a unique situation because, as we've said,

1108
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: it seems to have tortured him on some level, but

1109
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: on the other hand, was obviously a boon for him

1110
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: to be in a band with these guys, you know,

1111
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: Like it's hard to say that he suffered from being

1112
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: in these guys Orbit, but it was also a burden

1113
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: as he tried to assert himself and to not be

1114
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: the little brother figure anymore. Oh yeah, I mean that's

1115
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: what's so fascinting about him is that he's supposed to

1116
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: be like the biggest rock star on the planet except

1117
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: for these two other guys, and those feelings of frustration

1118
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: and inadequacy that that he would feel make him so

1119
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:47,919
Speaker 1: much more relatable, you know. I mean it just goes

1120
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: to show like, no matter how far you get, there

1121
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: are certain things that we as humans feel that are

1122
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: unavoidable and inescapable. And that that's what I think is

1123
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: one of the many things that fascinates me about him

1124
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 1: is that, you know, he he could be George Harrison,

1125
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: who author of Something and Here Comes the Sun, but

1126
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: still get needled by Paul McCartney when they go back

1127
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: in the studio thirty years later for the anthology, and

1128
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: it still hurts him pisces them off. Yeah, I know,

1129
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: there's something really human about that. Yeah, And I think

1130
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, like when people talk about their

1131
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: favorite beatles, you know, and I don't even know the

1132
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: answer to that. For myself, I feel like I change

1133
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 1: all the time. Um, you know, but there's something about

1134
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: George and I think this is probably true of Ringo too,

1135
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: But like, I think one reason people gravity to George

1136
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: is for what you were saying, that there's something a

1137
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: little more relatable to George, which is weird to say,

1138
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: because it's like he was an obscenely rich and famous

1139
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: man who you know, talented, good, wonderful things. He's not like,

1140
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's the opposite of like a Joe

1141
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: six pack or something. But compared to let it In McCartney,

1142
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's just something about him that was maybe

1143
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: a little more sort of down to earth, And of

1144
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: course Ringo is like the ultimate example of that. Um.

1145
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think if you look at these two, like,

1146
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: if we're gonna make a pro case for Lennon and McCartney,

1147
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: we probably don't need to spend too much time on that.

1148
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty obvious, what with the pro cases

1149
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: for Lennon McCartney, greatest songwriting partnership ever. Uh, two of

1150
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: the most beloved rock stars of all time, head of

1151
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: the Beatles. You know, I don't know what more you

1152
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: need to say about those two, Um, but the pro

1153
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: case for George Harrison. I mean we've kind of made

1154
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: it already. I mean, like, well, what would like, what

1155
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: are the things for you that stand out about George Harrison, Like,

1156
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: what are the keys to his greatness as far as

1157
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: you're concerned. Well, I think musically, we were saying earlier,

1158
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: I mean two of the most identifiable sounds of the

1159
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: decade are sort of come from him, the the the

1160
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: Indian sitar sound and the Chinese electric twelve string stuff.

1161
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: And then also, like you were saying in the early seventies,

1162
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: that slide guitar sound. His his musical influence I think

1163
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: really goes really uncommented on a lot. I mean, of

1164
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: course Lennon McCartney had all those songs, but the actual

1165
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: sound of it really a lot of that came from him,

1166
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: and I think that's that's important. And also, like we're

1167
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: saying earlier too, he is the dark horse. I think

1168
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: he has the most fascinating growth arc of all four

1169
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,960
Speaker 1: of the Beatles too, And it's like it's like a

1170
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: musical rocky tale, you know. I mean, he's this guy

1171
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: who came from nothing to go up against two of

1172
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: the greatest songwriters of their generation, or you know, maybe

1173
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: even any generation, and by the end on Abbey Road

1174
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: he was on par with them, and you know when

1175
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: he got the A side single. And there's this funny

1176
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: story where recently, um there was this tape of a

1177
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: late Arab Beatles meeting right after Abbey Road was released,

1178
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: where they were actually discussing making another album, which is

1179
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: very strange to think about now, and the plan it's

1180
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: so crazy, right, and and the idea was that they

1181
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: were John, Paul, and George were all going to contribute

1182
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: four songs, so he was going to be an equal

1183
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: partner finally, And that's really interesting that he made it,

1184
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, he that was even in their eyes. They

1185
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: all admitted, like we gotta give George equal time here.

1186
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I think that that's so inspiring.

1187
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: And something is a fan that I really admire about

1188
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: his whole story is he did it. You know, he

1189
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: came from from nowhere, and not that being you know,

1190
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: next to one end of McCartney on stage is nowhere,

1191
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: but just creatively, he worked at it. He put in

1192
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: the work and he did it. I think that's really cool. Yeah,

1193
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: I agree with everything you just said. I think, you know,

1194
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: he was a great guitarist again, like a very distinctive

1195
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: sound of like rock music of that era. His slide

1196
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,959
Speaker 1: guitar is like one of my favorite sounds of that era.

1197
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: I think again, I think he has the best Beatles

1198
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: solo album. I think people could maybe argue for Plastic

1199
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 1: Odo and Band or you know, I know a lot

1200
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: of people love Ram. I think Ram is your favorite

1201
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: Beatle solo record. Yeah, all Things Must Passed? His number

1202
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: two and All Things Must Passed really is like one

1203
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: of my favorite albums made by anybody. I love that record.

1204
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 1: I think what makes the Beatles special And I guess

1205
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna pivot now into our together section, like where

1206
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: everyone comes together and the spirit of peace and harmony,

1207
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: we bring the rivals under the same tent. I think

1208
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: what makes the Beatles like one of the things that

1209
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: makes the Beatles so great and interesting is that they

1210
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: did have this third songwriter, uh that was outside of

1211
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: the power couple of Lennon and McCartney. You know, the

1212
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: Beatles had just been Lennon McCartney songs, they would have

1213
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 1: obviously still been a huge band, very successful. They would

1214
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: have been great. But Harrison's musical elements, like what he

1215
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: was able to bring in from you know, the Indian

1216
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: music influences and just his persona, which was this loner, introspective,

1217
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: philosophical guy. It just added another layer of richness to

1218
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and it was another thing that made them

1219
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: totally unique, because there's not a lot of bands that

1220
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: have that element where you know, you listen to the band,

1221
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: you're sort of used to an authorial voice. You know,

1222
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: you have someone who's sort of in charge of writing

1223
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 1: the songs. You know, you have the singer, you have

1224
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: the focal point of the band. But the Beatles really

1225
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:01,439
Speaker 1: had multiple focal points. And even if George Harrison wasn't

1226
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: at the same level as Lennon McCartney, it was a

1227
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: very sort of unique presence in the band. Um And

1228
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: to have a song like Within Without You, or to

1229
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: have a song like Something next to all those great

1230
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: Lennon McCartney songs, it just makes the Beatles I think

1231
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 1: that much greater. Lennon McCartney wouldn't let him in to

1232
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: their songwriting partnership, but he was able to compliment them

1233
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 1: anyway with what he brought to the table. Yeah, no,

1234
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I mean I think that the when

1235
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: you actually think back on it, A lot of the

1236
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: stuff that we associate with the Beatles really did originate

1237
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: from him. I said it before and I say it again.

1238
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: With all the sitar sounds and and the twelve string. Yeah,

1239
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: I think that that he was such a crucial underappreciated

1240
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: element on top of all the songs that he brought

1241
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: to just just little things. I mean, Paul tells the

1242
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: story about and I love her. He wrote that Paul

1243
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: George is the one who wrote the guitar lick to that,

1244
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, all these little that's the thing

1245
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: you think about when you think of that song. I

1246
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: think that that sums up his time in the Beatles.

1247
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: This really a lot of the little moments that you

1248
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: do remember really did come from him. It's kind of

1249
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: amazing too that like he wrote that lick, but he

1250
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: didn't get credit, because like that is the hook of

1251
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: that song, that that little guitar part. Oh. Well, do

1252
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: you have a favorite Beetle by the way, I mean,

1253
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: if I'm honest with myself, it's Paul um. I I

1254
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: think there's different times when I wish it was John,

1255
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 1: and I admire elements of John, but I think the

1256
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: sort of like people, pleasing, great great nature that I

1257
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: tend to have is more and more of a Paul thing.

1258
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: And I also I love his his music. I think

1259
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: the callity of his voice is so amazing and adaptable

1260
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: from doing like Ray Charles E stuff like The Long

1261
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: Winding Road and to All the Way, the Little Little

1262
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: Richard Howells and all the folks stuff like I will

1263
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,479
Speaker 1: I just I love his voice. So yeah, I gotta say, Paul,

1264
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Speaker 1: I think it's my favorite. I mean, I think Paul

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Speaker 1: was the most talented. I think John was in a

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Speaker 1: way the most interesting. George is the one I think

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Speaker 1: I want to hang out with the most tall Georgian Ringo,

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Speaker 1: but I really would want to hang out with any

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Speaker 1: of the Beatles. So there's two of them left. And

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Speaker 1: as I've said many times in these episodes, Paul Ringo,

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Speaker 1: text me call me. You've talked to Jordan like a

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Speaker 1: ba jillion times. You've never talked to me. Give me

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Speaker 1: some love. It's gonna be weird in our next episode

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Speaker 1: to not talk about the Beatles. D oh man, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, do we Yeah, it's like the world needs

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Speaker 1: another Beetle podcast. I think you know, there's not there's

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Speaker 1: there's a real shortage of people talking about the Beatles

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Speaker 1: right now. Um, but we'll find a way. It's always

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Speaker 1: fun talking about what rival reaes with you. We'll be

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Speaker 1: leaving Liverpool in our next episode and we'll be going

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Speaker 1: into some other new musical war zone. I can't wait

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Speaker 1: for it. I'll get my pith hat on, I can't

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Speaker 1: wait here. Rivals is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: The executive producers are Shawn Tyitone and Noel Brown. The

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Speaker 1: supervising producers are Taylor Chacogne and Tristan McNeil. I'm Jordan

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Speaker 1: run Tug. I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard,

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01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: please subscribe to leave us a review. For more podcasts

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01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 1: for My heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.