WEBVTT - Don Lemon Returns 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:15.520 Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:15.540 --> 0:00:17.779 back to Work in Progress, friends. We have one of 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.960 our favorite Whipsmarties back on the show. I cannot believe 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:27.070 it has been a year since we last talked. Independent journalist, 0:00:27.590 --> 0:00:36.940 absolute truth-telling superstar, newsroom-running, freedom-of-the-press championing, Don Lemon is back 0:00:37.030 --> 0:00:41.260 with us on the show today. Since we last spoke, 0:00:41.580 --> 0:00:48.700 Lemon Media Network has surpassed 10 million followers across YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Facebook, Twitch, Threads, 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:49.620 and Blue Sky. 0:00:50.140 --> 0:00:50.300 Whew! 0:00:50.990 --> 0:00:55.050 With more than 50% growth just in the preceding year. 0:00:55.530 --> 0:00:58.550 And as they approach 11 million followers, I want to 0:00:58.630 --> 0:01:02.250 ask Don how he's feeling a year into this process 0:01:02.750 --> 0:01:06.949 as he's expanded his newsroom to include a Washington correspondent, 0:01:06.990 --> 0:01:11.020 a director of operations and production leadership. He's got a 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.760 phenomenal Substack newsletter that publishes daily. In the last year, 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.520 he's won a Webby Award and a People's Voice Award 0:01:18.540 --> 0:01:21.679 for Best Video Podcast Host. And what I want to 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.980 talk to him about is how different this feels from 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.700 his work at CNN, because now he controls the show, 0:01:28.780 --> 0:01:33.509 the priorities, and doesn't have to self-edit around anybody but himself. 0:01:34.290 --> 0:01:38.860 We'll also touch on Don's arrest in January of 2026, 0:01:38.860 --> 0:01:42.640 which clearly seemed intended by the government to intimidate a 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.720 free press. The incident became central to his argument about 0:01:46.830 --> 0:01:52.000 independent journalism and why First Amendment protections matter so much. Thankfully, 0:01:52.060 --> 0:01:54.620 on the outside of corporate media, Don is also able 0:01:54.700 --> 0:01:58.260 to clue all of us in about what media consolidation 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:02.380 means and warns us that a concentration of ownership can 0:02:02.420 --> 0:02:06.480 threaten editorial independence and representation that actually keeps all of 0:02:06.620 --> 0:02:09.490 us informed. So today we're going to sit down and 0:02:09.530 --> 0:02:12.540 talk about what it's like to interview governors, to cover 0:02:12.660 --> 0:02:16.959 LGBTQ representation, to discuss what on earth we need to 0:02:17.020 --> 0:02:19.180 be doing to prepare for the midterms and how we 0:02:19.220 --> 0:02:24.889 can all stay engaged without completely overloading, especially when part 0:02:24.930 --> 0:02:27.570 of our mission is to shine a light on both 0:02:27.770 --> 0:02:31.450 the chaos and the beauty around us. Let's dive in 0:02:31.510 --> 0:02:44.980 with our friend Don Lemon. Well, hello, my dear. I'm 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.250 so glad you're back. What a year it's been. It's 0:02:48.340 --> 0:02:50.929 crazy to think we last did this together in person 0:02:50.990 --> 0:02:53.550 a year ago. And I'm like, in the last 10 months, 0:02:53.610 --> 0:02:55.089 really a lot of things have happened. 0:02:56.350 --> 0:02:58.609 What are you talking about, Sophia Bush? Good to see you, though, 0:02:58.650 --> 0:03:00.790 by the way. I don't know what you're talking about. 0:03:00.810 --> 0:03:03.329 What on earth do you mean? You know, I was 0:03:03.370 --> 0:03:06.030 really thinking about it. And I'd love to start here 0:03:06.130 --> 0:03:09.340 just because of what you've been building. Because last year, 0:03:09.350 --> 0:03:11.419 you told me that you were so much happier. You know, 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.450 you didn't have to self-edit for a corporation. You didn't 0:03:14.510 --> 0:03:19.609 have to work around a conglomerate's rules. And now you've 0:03:19.669 --> 0:03:24.640 built this, you know, over 10 million followers media company 0:03:24.700 --> 0:03:30.079 that is your own. Has this exceeded what you've imagined 0:03:30.100 --> 0:03:30.760 it would feel like? 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.180 Oh my gosh. Um, you know, sometimes you're too close 0:03:34.220 --> 0:03:36.220 to it. Like, I don't know when to hear that. 0:03:36.260 --> 0:03:39.100 Like you have with 10 million followers across all platforms, 0:03:39.140 --> 0:03:43.340 it's almost 11 million. Uh, that's huge. Um, but it 0:03:43.380 --> 0:03:45.620 feels like we still feel like this little company and 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:47.559 we still are in many ways, but I still feel 0:03:47.580 --> 0:03:52.020 like this little startup, you know, company that, um, you know, 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.860 the little engine that could, but, um, uh, look, I, 0:03:55.900 --> 0:03:58.520 for wherever we are, I'm extremely grateful for it. And 0:03:58.540 --> 0:04:01.100 I hope that we continue to grow either. I was 0:04:01.140 --> 0:04:03.250 at a place to be honest with you, Sophia, where 0:04:03.260 --> 0:04:06.730 I either had to grow or stay the same. And, um, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.160 I didn't think, I don't think staying the same as 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.490 in the cars, if it, if it continues to be successful, 0:04:11.530 --> 0:04:14.450 but as you know, though, you do this scale is everything. 0:04:14.470 --> 0:04:18.050 You got to keep the cost low and the output high. 0:04:18.710 --> 0:04:22.729 Yeah. Is that, does it feel like a lot of pressure? 0:04:22.790 --> 0:04:25.770 I mean, given what you know now, would you have 0:04:25.830 --> 0:04:28.710 advice for Don who was on the show in 2025? 0:04:28.690 --> 0:04:29.030 Yes, I would. 0:04:29.050 --> 0:04:29.770 I would have advice. 0:04:30.029 --> 0:04:35.640 Um, whether I don't know if I said it or not, 0:04:35.700 --> 0:04:39.690 if I articulated it at that point, but I think 0:04:39.750 --> 0:04:43.869 I would have said, you know, in some way kind 0:04:43.930 --> 0:04:48.450 of enjoy it a bit more. And then I would, again, 0:04:48.529 --> 0:04:52.290 sort of the same advice, don't judge it. And I 0:04:52.330 --> 0:04:55.910 probably would have made a couple of different decisions business-wise 0:04:56.750 --> 0:04:59.390 and the people I hired or the way I conducted 0:04:59.430 --> 0:05:02.650 business Because you really need people who are like hungry. 0:05:02.810 --> 0:05:05.350 You need people who are multitaskers, like people who can 0:05:05.830 --> 0:05:10.029 do 14 things at once. And whether people have those 0:05:10.070 --> 0:05:12.690 skills or not is like, you have to in this environment. 0:05:12.890 --> 0:05:14.900 You know, we're not in the, this is not network 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.780 television anymore, where this is your one job that you 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.560 do all day. Like everybody pitches in and that's how 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.440 it is. And I learned that from young people. So 0:05:24.460 --> 0:05:26.210 I would probably tell the Don of 2025 is to, 0:05:28.020 --> 0:05:30.880 learn a lot more from the young people lean in 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:32.900 because they're going to, they're going to make you, um, 0:05:33.820 --> 0:05:36.140 more relevant and they'll tell you how to, how to pivot. 0:05:36.620 --> 0:05:40.110 That's really cool. Yeah. I get what you mean, because 0:05:40.130 --> 0:05:42.910 when you first get started in a career, especially when 0:05:42.950 --> 0:05:45.230 you work in any facet of media, you know, you're, 0:05:45.350 --> 0:05:48.170 you're doing what you're doing with news and coverage, you're 0:05:48.230 --> 0:05:51.770 making your first television series, whatever you have to be 0:05:51.990 --> 0:05:57.710 so scrappy. And I think when the scrappiness lasts, when 0:05:57.730 --> 0:06:00.810 you keep your youthful scrappiness, but then you have your 0:06:00.870 --> 0:06:04.979 adult experience and perspective, like those are the only kinds 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.250 of people I want to work with. Because when I 0:06:07.300 --> 0:06:09.320 see people be like, well, that's not my department. And 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.219 then just stand there and watch something not get fixed. 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.380 I'm like, oh, we're no, we're not going to be 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.380 able to do this. And it sounds like you're really 0:06:18.460 --> 0:06:20.900 figuring out how to sort of straddle both of those worlds. 0:06:21.420 --> 0:06:23.620 While you build this thing, because you're building this plane 0:06:23.650 --> 0:06:24.860 while you're flying it, right? 0:06:24.900 --> 0:06:27.760 While we're flying it, we're building it. You articulated that 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:33.260 way better than I could. Youthful scrappiness with network or 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.260 whatever experience, right? With institutional experience. And that, you know, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.500 do you experience that? Because I find that that happens 0:06:41.580 --> 0:06:45.859 a lot more. Either you have sort of young, you know, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.200 folks who are not used to, I'm Jen Beck's The 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.500 sort of work ethic. And then you have like older 0:06:52.540 --> 0:06:54.870 folks who are like, that's not my job. And so 0:06:54.950 --> 0:06:55.690 it's a little weird. 0:06:56.210 --> 0:06:56.989 Yeah. 0:06:57.110 --> 0:06:58.230 Everything is everybody's job. 0:06:58.529 --> 0:07:01.700 And I fully feel that way always. Like I'm going 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.610 to lend a hand to the grips on set. You know, 0:07:04.730 --> 0:07:07.849 I was, I was at a shoot that wasn't even mine. 0:07:07.930 --> 0:07:10.870 Like I just happened to be there, you know, working 0:07:10.930 --> 0:07:14.130 behind the scenes. And as we were moving the photographers 0:07:14.170 --> 0:07:16.270 trying to manage stuff. So I grab a Pelican case, 0:07:16.330 --> 0:07:18.230 I grab a reflector and people are like, Oh my God, 0:07:18.250 --> 0:07:21.250 what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm like, I'm helping. 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.180 Yes. I remember when I first started, um, not first, 0:07:24.220 --> 0:07:26.760 when I went to primetime, um, And for some reason, 0:07:26.780 --> 0:07:29.160 like the stars at the time, some of them couldn't 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.020 even get in a rundown. They couldn't write. And when 0:07:31.060 --> 0:07:32.670 I got in and I started writing in the rundown, 0:07:32.690 --> 0:07:34.750 they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm helping. 0:07:35.450 --> 0:07:39.330 Or like what you said, sometimes I'll arrive on people's 0:07:39.350 --> 0:07:40.570 set and I'll say, you know, your key light is 0:07:40.590 --> 0:07:44.430 too high. And they go, what is that? And I 0:07:44.470 --> 0:07:48.980 think because of that, I've been able to pivot and 0:07:49.180 --> 0:07:52.520 do different things. Because you know who Kara Swisher is, right? Yeah. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.670 So Kara, when I first started either, you know, contemplating 0:07:56.730 --> 0:07:59.190 doing this, she said, I think you can be successful. 0:07:59.910 --> 0:08:01.870 And here's why she said, you don't strike me as 0:08:01.930 --> 0:08:04.630 a type that is, has gotten too used to going 0:08:04.650 --> 0:08:06.400 to work in a town car. And I said, Kara, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.420 nobody uses a town car anymore. They're, they're obsolete. And 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.220 she goes, okay. In the back of a black SUV. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.560 And I said, yes, although I was used to that, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.600 but that was never who I was. And so I 0:08:15.660 --> 0:08:17.780 liked that term that you say scrappy. Cause I used 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.440 to tell, you know, Chris Cuomo used to say all 0:08:19.460 --> 0:08:20.940 the time, you could kick my ass. And I would say, 0:08:21.260 --> 0:08:22.830 you don't know how scrappy I am and all the 0:08:22.890 --> 0:08:26.260 rage in these. Yeah. Like, pent up inside of me, 0:08:26.580 --> 0:08:29.720 you better look out because I'll be all over your behind. 0:08:29.780 --> 0:08:32.680 You're like, don't let the buttoned up three-piece suit fool you, 0:08:32.730 --> 0:08:33.250 my friend. 0:08:33.270 --> 0:08:36.110 But you got to be scrappy. You got to be scrappy. 0:08:36.150 --> 0:08:39.990 You really do. There's a scrappiness required, I think, to 0:08:40.090 --> 0:08:44.490 any independent endeavor. And when I think about what you're doing, 0:08:45.510 --> 0:08:50.490 how you're building, how you're expanding your team, then you also... 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.439 have the sort of storied, I don't want to call 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.870 it appearance because it's a real thing. But, you know, 0:08:56.929 --> 0:08:59.090 I watch you sit down with Gavin Newsom, for example, 0:08:59.130 --> 0:09:02.750 and it's Don Lemon and the governor. It feels like 0:09:02.809 --> 0:09:06.790 a network moment. But I'm curious what you think guests 0:09:06.850 --> 0:09:09.469 like the governor, you know, other folks who come on 0:09:09.510 --> 0:09:12.580 your show, what do you think that they get now 0:09:12.630 --> 0:09:15.380 when they sit with you that they didn't get to 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.760 have or don't get to have when they sit across 0:09:17.780 --> 0:09:19.579 from traditional network anchors? 0:09:20.500 --> 0:09:24.660 Easy answer to that. They get more of a human experience, 0:09:24.820 --> 0:09:28.839 more of a grounded experience, more grassroot experience. When you're 0:09:28.860 --> 0:09:31.089 sitting there on network television, you're talking to people, that's 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.449 all well and good. I'm not diminishing or dismissing, I 0:09:33.470 --> 0:09:36.550 should say, the power of network and traditional or corporate TV. 0:09:37.070 --> 0:09:39.930 But if you look at cable news, their average viewer 0:09:40.030 --> 0:09:43.050 is 60, 70 years old. So they get youth, they 0:09:43.070 --> 0:09:46.989 get the coveted demographic, they get people who are where 0:09:47.030 --> 0:09:50.230 the zeitgeist is right now. And they get where the 0:09:50.230 --> 0:09:52.250 audience is. And so I always said when I started, 0:09:52.250 --> 0:09:54.280 I want to go where the audience is. The audience 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.030 is on TikTok. Okay, fine. I'll go to TikTok. If 0:09:56.030 --> 0:09:58.060 the audience is on YouTube, I'll go to YouTube. If 0:09:58.059 --> 0:10:00.450 the audience is is on instagram i'll go to instagram 0:10:00.830 --> 0:10:05.180 and so um as you see the numbers the ratings 0:10:05.820 --> 0:10:08.560 you know diminishing day by day by day in in 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:14.660 corporate media one wonders like why are people writing about 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.380 them or relying or talking about them so much because 0:10:17.820 --> 0:10:21.579 it's a model that is you know out Right. Somewhat. 0:10:21.620 --> 0:10:23.660 Not that they're ever going away. So I think what 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.880 they get from me is different authenticity. I don't interview people. 0:10:26.900 --> 0:10:29.400 I have conversations with them. I know how to ask 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.780 people questions without being insulting or sounding like I'm in 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.180 an interrogation room. I'm not a police officer. I'm having 0:10:37.220 --> 0:10:41.200 a conversation. I'm asking questions. And I'm not you know, 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.340 sometimes you get people to change. It's very rarely change 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.959 their opinion or their minds. Usually you don't. So then 0:10:46.020 --> 0:10:49.100 you are just inquisitive about why curious about why they 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.440 feel that way. And you can question them so much. 0:10:51.780 --> 0:10:53.360 And then after a while, it's like, I'm not going 0:10:53.380 --> 0:10:55.059 to change them. I'm not going to insult the audience 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.740 to keep asking the same questions over and over again. 0:10:58.059 --> 0:11:00.160 So they get a human experience, which they don't get. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.340 They don't get us sitting around in suits or cocktail 0:11:02.380 --> 0:11:05.339 dresses and a bunch of makeup and hair talking about 0:11:05.660 --> 0:11:07.280 what's going on, right? 0:11:08.340 --> 0:11:12.069 Well, and I think that more human approach, it's what 0:11:12.110 --> 0:11:14.989 people are craving. And don't get me wrong. I will 0:11:15.090 --> 0:11:19.170 always respect the news. And I kind of wish... we 0:11:19.250 --> 0:11:21.209 as a society had more respect for it. But I 0:11:21.290 --> 0:11:23.810 also think, as you said, you've got to meet people 0:11:23.850 --> 0:11:25.760 where they are. You've also got to meet the moment. 0:11:25.980 --> 0:11:29.559 And even watching you, you know, get out in the field, 0:11:29.780 --> 0:11:31.940 show up to cover what's happening. I mean, we all 0:11:31.980 --> 0:11:34.219 saw what happened, right? You know, you were covering ICE 0:11:34.820 --> 0:11:38.689 and then you got arrested covering an anti-ICE protest, which 0:11:39.070 --> 0:11:41.590 was so insane because I was like, wait, but that's 0:11:41.610 --> 0:11:43.570 your job. And then they tried to say you were 0:11:43.610 --> 0:11:47.620 like leading the protest. And I'm going, No, it's his 0:11:47.700 --> 0:11:50.260 job to be there and to be telling people what's happening. 0:11:51.100 --> 0:11:53.920 How did you kind of make sense of that? You know, 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.220 you want to be in the field. You don't want 0:11:56.250 --> 0:12:00.040 to wind up locked up. Did it feel like just 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:05.270 a sort of byproduct of this really intense moment of, 0:12:06.070 --> 0:12:09.010 you know, friction in the culture? Or did it feel 0:12:09.030 --> 0:12:12.530 like they were targeting you specifically to try to keep 0:12:12.710 --> 0:12:16.970 independent journalists out? maybe afraid of telling independent stories? 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.179 I think it's the latter. And I'm glad you recognize 0:12:22.220 --> 0:12:25.339 the ridiculousness of that. It was that I started, I 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.140 was there doing my job, right? Doing what I am 0:12:29.179 --> 0:12:31.100 supposed to do. I believe in the job and that 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.490 is go where the news is. And so it's so 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.090 weird that not everybody gets that or they see what 0:12:37.110 --> 0:12:38.970 they want to see. I'm like, can you just watch 0:12:39.010 --> 0:12:41.559 the video? And then you'll see. They said, I'm not 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.829 a protester. I'm here just asking questions. I'm here chronicling. 0:12:45.250 --> 0:12:47.850 But somehow they don't understand that, as if I was 0:12:47.970 --> 0:12:50.710 leading this group that I didn't really know anything about. 0:12:50.730 --> 0:12:52.090 Right. 0:12:52.210 --> 0:12:56.360 And you know, some people, it's intentional. But basically, that's it. 0:12:56.410 --> 0:12:58.460 It's the First Amendment. Let me just say this before. 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.760 The moment that our government starts dictating, like, hey, you 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.860 can cover this. You can't cover that. You can cover them. 0:13:04.900 --> 0:13:08.120 You can't cover them. This is how you should do it. Like, who, what, when, where, 0:13:08.140 --> 0:13:11.820 and how you report on something. Mm-hmm. That's not First Amendment. 0:13:11.860 --> 0:13:14.260 That's not freedom of the press. We're in a dictatorship then. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.620 And in many ways, we are. It's crazy. The same 0:13:18.660 --> 0:13:22.160 people who will purposefully obfuscate why you were there in 0:13:22.179 --> 0:13:25.500 the first place are the folks that are like, no, 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.619 that's not what's happening here. We're not falling to fascism. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.760 And I'm going, is anybody paying attention to just the 0:13:31.780 --> 0:13:35.780 sort of numerical list of the stages of the undoing 0:13:35.820 --> 0:13:39.720 of democracy? Like, why not? Why is it so hard 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.339 to talk about the facts? And by the way, to 0:13:45.660 --> 0:13:48.750 add insult to injury of what happened to you, the 0:13:48.830 --> 0:13:52.770 attempt at punishing you for doing your job as a journalist, 0:13:53.030 --> 0:13:55.369 then the government tried to get all the names and 0:13:55.410 --> 0:13:58.230 personal information about your YouTube subscribers. 0:13:58.650 --> 0:13:59.350 You saw that, right? 0:13:59.370 --> 0:14:01.890 Yeah. That is some, and you know what, this is 0:14:01.910 --> 0:14:03.330 why I love that we're not on a news network, 0:14:03.350 --> 0:14:05.969 because I can say that is some freaky shit. Like, 0:14:06.010 --> 0:14:07.250 that's terrifying. 0:14:07.270 --> 0:14:09.690 That's some fucked up shit. Yes. 0:14:09.790 --> 0:14:12.740 But like, the fact that an administration is trying to 0:14:12.820 --> 0:14:17.260 be a surveillance state against people that are showing up 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.560 for their neighbors, and as you said, for their rights 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.140 under the Constitution, including free speech, right to assemble, freedom 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.560 of the press, all of it. What does that tell you? 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.620 And what do you think that should tell your audience? 0:14:30.700 --> 0:14:34.120 anyone who values a free press. Cause yes, a judge 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.820 refused the request, but the administration still tried. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:38.800 Three times. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:39.620 Three times. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.730 And they went to a grand jury. And finally, and 0:14:42.750 --> 0:14:44.570 you know, that's such a secretive process. You don't know 0:14:44.650 --> 0:14:46.990 what is happening inside of the grand jury. What does 0:14:47.010 --> 0:14:50.430 that say? Um, well, I would tell people, you know, um, 0:14:50.730 --> 0:14:56.720 or Orwell's, uh, 19, what is it? 1984. Um, It's 0:14:56.930 --> 0:15:00.080 upon us. I think that the people who say that 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:03.620 they believe in the constitution or lying about the constitution, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.980 they believe in themselves. They believe in their power. Now 0:15:07.060 --> 0:15:10.340 imagine the government just going and fishing for information. What 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.520 it appears to me is that they're fishing, they're looking 0:15:12.540 --> 0:15:17.260 for information rather than establishing something, getting the evidence and 0:15:17.380 --> 0:15:20.380 then presenting a case or having people arrested. But you 0:15:20.420 --> 0:15:23.660 have people arrested when you don't have the goods and 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.320 then you do whatever you can to try to get 0:15:26.380 --> 0:15:34.230 the goods, whether that is using unusual or unscrupulous means 0:15:34.310 --> 0:15:39.030 to get it, or trying to fit laws into certain 0:15:39.050 --> 0:15:41.590 places that, okay, well, I'm going to use this law here, 0:15:41.750 --> 0:15:44.390 even though this customs law, even though it's not supposed 0:15:44.410 --> 0:15:46.250 to be used for this, or we're going to use 0:15:46.670 --> 0:15:49.730 this particular law to arrest this person, even though it's 0:15:49.790 --> 0:15:52.550 not supposed to be used for that. And then Delaying 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:54.560 and delaying and delaying because you don't have the personnel 0:15:54.580 --> 0:15:56.540 and you don't have the goods. Yeah. And if they 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.060 can do it to me, imagine what they can do 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.740 to people. If they can do it to people like 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.859 us with means and platforms, imagine what they can do 0:16:04.180 --> 0:16:07.480 to people who don't have platforms, who don't have power, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.540 who don't have agency or don't have the resources to 0:16:09.580 --> 0:16:12.880 be able to fight it. It's un-American and it's unpatriotic. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.330 It is indeed. And that's part of what I think 0:16:15.350 --> 0:16:18.210 is so important to talk about. You know, when you 0:16:18.250 --> 0:16:20.730 consider what Stephen Miller and Marco Rubio have been up 0:16:20.770 --> 0:16:24.870 to for the last, you know, six months plus, designating 0:16:25.010 --> 0:16:30.010 certain quote unquote organizations as foreign terrorist groups. Now they're 0:16:30.030 --> 0:16:34.050 saying members of foreign terrorist organizations can be denaturalized. They 0:16:34.070 --> 0:16:37.850 can take your citizenship. But what's a foreign terrorist group? 0:16:37.890 --> 0:16:40.330 They're like Antifa. Antifa is not a group. 0:16:40.350 --> 0:16:41.310 It's not a thing. 0:16:41.390 --> 0:16:44.930 It's a slogan for being anti-fascist. We as Americans were 0:16:44.950 --> 0:16:48.979 the ultimate anti-fascists. In World War II, we defeated Adolf 0:16:49.020 --> 0:16:53.340 Hitler and the fascists by being, quote unquote, Antifa, the 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:58.080 literal American military. So they're making up, as you're saying, 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:03.220 they're making up a, quote, crime to then carry out 0:17:03.470 --> 0:17:09.169 policy that is actually illegal and un-American and undemocratic so 0:17:09.190 --> 0:17:12.290 that they can punish their enemies. But they don't follow 0:17:12.310 --> 0:17:16.680 the laws even as they're written, let alone as they're 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.080 warping them. And so what frightens me, you know, if 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.159 it hadn't gone your way with a grand jury, would 0:17:23.180 --> 0:17:26.960 your viewers find out they were supposedly foreign terrorists for 0:17:27.020 --> 0:17:31.090 watching independent news? Would your viewers find out they were 0:17:31.140 --> 0:17:35.490 classified as something they've never heard of because they subscribe 0:17:35.510 --> 0:17:38.669 to a YouTube channel? Because that might sound crazy, but 0:17:38.730 --> 0:17:42.790 it's clearly the goal. It's to punish us with what 0:17:42.850 --> 0:17:46.610 they create rather than with who any of us are, 0:17:47.230 --> 0:17:51.389 only because we don't agree with them. And we actually say, hey, 0:17:51.410 --> 0:17:54.040 has anyone read the Constitution? We think it might matter. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.820 Well, let me tell you this. That part is unsettled 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:05.620 when you talk about if a judge didn't say no. 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.199 The judge said no, but they still tried to use 0:18:08.220 --> 0:18:11.480 something else, which is this, when I said using laws 0:18:12.220 --> 0:18:15.429 that weren't that were obscure laws that weren't meant for 0:18:15.450 --> 0:18:18.450 what they're doing. They use a customs law after that 0:18:18.850 --> 0:18:23.210 to try to gain information for subscribers and members and 0:18:23.290 --> 0:18:25.730 all of those things. It is unclear whether they got 0:18:25.770 --> 0:18:28.710 it or not. So they will stop at nothing. It's 0:18:28.730 --> 0:18:32.030 just like they went to a magistrate judge and then 0:18:32.070 --> 0:18:34.830 I think a district judge and then whatever, I forget 0:18:34.869 --> 0:18:38.080 the second judge and then the eighth circuit or circuit 0:18:38.100 --> 0:18:40.480 court judge and then to the grand jury. They will 0:18:40.580 --> 0:18:43.570 just continue to do it because they think that they 0:18:43.609 --> 0:18:45.750 can just do it. The government never runs out of money. 0:18:46.590 --> 0:18:53.000 And sometimes it's hard for people to tell them no. However, again, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.560 the grand jury process is so secretive that you can 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:58.480 present anything to a grand jury. So they will do 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.680 whatever they can. They're like, okay, the judge stopped this. 0:19:00.980 --> 0:19:03.359 What other thing can we use? This customs law allows 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.060 us to blah, blah, blah. We'll say we can use 0:19:05.100 --> 0:19:06.810 it for that. And then that has to go through 0:19:06.830 --> 0:19:09.790 the courts. And then they're just presenting other things on 0:19:09.830 --> 0:19:12.790 top for the judge to Other things that have to 0:19:12.830 --> 0:19:15.190 be ruled on and they just keep extending it and 0:19:15.230 --> 0:19:18.290 delaying it and delaying. In the meantime, the money, the 0:19:18.330 --> 0:19:21.990 totals are racking up. People's lives are being destroyed. Their 0:19:22.030 --> 0:19:25.290 livelihoods are being destroyed. Only because, as I said from 0:19:25.310 --> 0:19:28.930 the very beginning, the process is the punishment here. Yes. 0:19:29.010 --> 0:19:31.949 Well, you saw that with the reflecting pool. I mean, 0:19:31.970 --> 0:19:36.280 they went after an Olympian, someone who represented our country 0:19:36.820 --> 0:19:39.060 and accused him of being a vandal, accused him of 0:19:39.140 --> 0:19:43.900 destroying us. government property, and only because the fight has 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.139 gone on so long have we gotten all the final 0:19:46.180 --> 0:19:51.300 information that it was literally a botched job Two materials 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:55.859 that chemically cannot interact were used on that reflecting pool 0:19:55.900 --> 0:19:58.700 and the whole thing bubbled up. We saw it in 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.480 front of our own eyes. But to your earlier point 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:02.780 about Orwell, they're saying, don't believe your eyes and don't 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.629 believe your ears. Only believe what we tell you. And 0:20:05.650 --> 0:20:08.379 they were going to send an Olympian to prison rather 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.160 than admit that they had done something wrong. And that, 0:20:12.740 --> 0:20:15.330 whether it's, you know, them trying to grab your audience 0:20:15.430 --> 0:20:16.669 or what they were going to do to him and 0:20:16.690 --> 0:20:21.510 the other people they charged with supposed vandalism, it's disturbing 0:20:21.609 --> 0:20:25.780 to realize they'll stop at nothing to punish people. to 0:20:25.890 --> 0:20:31.440 keep their story going. I'm curious, you know, what you think. 0:20:31.780 --> 0:20:34.160 To keep their lie going. Let's be honest about this. 0:20:34.180 --> 0:20:34.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:36.660 But say no, I like to say your whole name. 0:20:37.260 --> 0:20:40.010 I'll take it. Like people call me Don Lemon. But Sophia, 0:20:40.070 --> 0:20:41.970 they want to keep the lie going. They have to 0:20:42.010 --> 0:20:44.530 keep that, the lie and the myth going. Oh, the 0:20:44.570 --> 0:20:47.330 election was stolen. Everybody's out to get Donald Trump. Donald 0:20:47.350 --> 0:20:50.030 Trump is right about the reflecting pool. Donald Trump is 0:20:50.090 --> 0:20:53.020 right about Don Lemon. They have to keep the lie going. 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.439 The facade, the fakery. the hypocrisy going in order for 0:20:57.460 --> 0:21:00.470 the myth of the man that's supposed to be the 0:21:00.510 --> 0:21:03.290 best businessman that has all of these, you know, bankruptcies, 0:21:03.350 --> 0:21:06.190 who is a convicted felon, who has, you know, been 0:21:06.310 --> 0:21:10.710 adjudicated for liable for sexual assault, you know, all of 0:21:10.750 --> 0:21:12.899 these things, but they have to keep it going somehow. 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.639 They've got to keep the lie up. Otherwise it shatters 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.360 their entire world and it shatters Donald Trump's world because 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.980 it all really is built on one lie on top 0:21:21.020 --> 0:21:22.000 of the other. Yeah. 0:21:22.020 --> 0:21:24.179 And it's like, if one gets destabilized, the house of 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:26.950 cards falls down. Which is crazy, you know, the fact 0:21:26.970 --> 0:21:29.210 that he had to put that $ 5 million in E. 0:21:29.230 --> 0:21:34.459 Jean Carroll's bank account, finally, for what he did to her, finally, 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.480 it's like it didn't even make a dent to those people. 0:21:38.540 --> 0:21:40.080 And it's so strange to me. 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:40.860 It's a rounding error. 0:21:41.740 --> 0:21:45.990 Yeah, you know, my hope is that the more we 0:21:46.010 --> 0:21:48.510 can continue to speak truth to power, the better. And 0:21:48.530 --> 0:21:52.190 I think about it on so many issues, right? Like, 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:55.240 personal issue for me and you last year we sat 0:21:55.290 --> 0:21:59.090 here and we talked about LGBTQ rights you know you 0:21:59.330 --> 0:22:01.430 you talked about what it was like to shift from 0:22:01.490 --> 0:22:04.530 thinking that you would never be able to be married 0:22:05.050 --> 0:22:08.669 to being married and in the in the time between 0:22:08.710 --> 0:22:11.300 that conversation and this one we saw that challenge to 0:22:11.380 --> 0:22:14.100 Oberfell's be brought you know we saw Kim Davis try 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.180 to get back into the press I'm like lady just 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.359 go home like if you don't like gay marriage you 0:22:18.380 --> 0:22:20.159 don't have to you don't have to marry someone who's 0:22:20.180 --> 0:22:23.010 the same sex as you like move it along but 0:22:23.930 --> 0:22:26.950 you know she might have lost that challenge but we've 0:22:27.050 --> 0:22:29.510 heard even Clarence Thomas say that it might need to 0:22:29.550 --> 0:22:32.870 be revisited you know I I wonder what you think 0:22:32.950 --> 0:22:36.469 about you know this is the first subject I'll have 0:22:36.550 --> 0:22:38.670 others to ask you about but but why do you 0:22:38.750 --> 0:22:43.610 think they're so desperate to be the administration that continues 0:22:43.690 --> 0:22:48.859 to remove rights from people that makes us less free 0:22:48.990 --> 0:22:51.840 you know do you Do you think that's something we 0:22:51.859 --> 0:22:54.659 can feel better about because the Supreme Court refused to 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.399 hear it? Or do you think they're coming for it 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:57.619 in the lower courts first? 0:22:58.100 --> 0:22:59.580 Can I just say a couple of things? The Supreme 0:22:59.619 --> 0:23:02.640 Court should be ashamed of themselves. Agreed. But they're allowing 0:23:03.010 --> 0:23:05.410 to happen, especially someone like Clarence Thomas, right? 0:23:05.430 --> 0:23:05.830 Agreed. 0:23:06.130 --> 0:23:08.909 Even a woman who's on the Supreme Court. And you 0:23:08.950 --> 0:23:11.350 know what women go through with their bodies, right? And 0:23:11.369 --> 0:23:13.760 you don't think that a woman should have access to 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:15.760 her body and her health care in a way that 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.859 she deems possible. The other thing is, is that Religious 0:23:19.900 --> 0:23:26.220 nationalism and white supremacy. So it's all combined. The lie 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.419 that the Supreme Court is going to hold it up 0:23:28.460 --> 0:23:31.460 and because they maybe they feel beholden to him because 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.220 he gave him their positions or maybe they feel that 0:23:35.260 --> 0:23:37.609 he's a Trojan horse to get all of the horrible 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.649 things that they wanted, that they knew were unconstitutional or 0:23:40.690 --> 0:23:43.209 didn't have a chance in hell that they're being allowed. 0:23:43.790 --> 0:23:47.580 It's being allowed to happen now. And it's because you 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:52.920 are wanting your particular religion to be the religious test 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:54.939 for the country. And the constitution says there's no religious 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:59.260 test for this country. So there's religious nationalism that's happening. 0:23:59.619 --> 0:24:02.470 And then just plain old white supremacy, just plain old racism. 0:24:02.910 --> 0:24:05.330 People will do anything they can to hang on to power. 0:24:05.950 --> 0:24:09.180 And especially think about it. If you are a white 0:24:09.220 --> 0:24:12.630 person struggling in this society. And by all accounts, right? 0:24:12.650 --> 0:24:15.070 And I'm generalizing here that everything is kind of open 0:24:15.130 --> 0:24:16.710 for you to have. I'm not saying that white people 0:24:16.730 --> 0:24:20.090 don't struggle. People of all different backgrounds struggle. But for 0:24:20.109 --> 0:24:22.130 the most part, they haven't had to deal with Jim 0:24:22.150 --> 0:24:26.210 Crow laws, racism, slavery, those kinds of things. And if 0:24:26.750 --> 0:24:29.540 you are not doing as well as you see an immigrant, 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.080 even a woman, if you're a guy, right? Or a 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:35.300 black person, if someone comes along and tells you, oh, 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:39.440 you know what? It's not your fault. You're not responsible 0:24:39.460 --> 0:24:42.280 for any of this. It's the other person's fault. It's 0:24:42.300 --> 0:24:44.980 the immigrant's fault. It's the black person's fault. A man 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:46.640 is supposed to be the head of the household. Why 0:24:46.660 --> 0:24:48.720 are they letting women do all of these things? If 0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:51.480 someone comes along and it gives you a reason to 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.080 be able to feel those things, then you're going to 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:56.520 attach yourself to them. You go, yeah, that's right. That 0:24:56.580 --> 0:24:58.939 person speaks for me rather than saying, maybe I don't 0:24:58.980 --> 0:25:03.230 have the skills. Maybe I couldn't pivot. Maybe I should 0:25:03.250 --> 0:25:06.970 realize that sadly, coal is not ever going to be 0:25:07.050 --> 0:25:09.130 the thing that it once was. Not unless they start 0:25:09.170 --> 0:25:13.390 making these things, cell phones out of coal. Right. Right. 0:25:14.070 --> 0:25:17.270 And because we move on, people need to retrain. We, 0:25:17.450 --> 0:25:20.030 you know, we lived in, there were horse and buggy sometimes. 0:25:20.090 --> 0:25:21.780 And people were, you know, they say, oh, well, I'm 0:25:21.820 --> 0:25:24.460 in the horse industry and the horse industry is doing poorly. 0:25:24.500 --> 0:25:26.179 It's that person's fault. It's like, no. Then there were 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:29.560 combustion engines. Then cars came about. Then trains, whatever, or 0:25:29.900 --> 0:25:33.060 trains and then cars. And then there were airplanes. We 0:25:33.140 --> 0:25:36.660 evolve and we move on. But if you are fighting 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:40.300 for your last breath at being the preeminent voice, you're 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.200 going to do anything to hang on to it because 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:44.379 it's been a good ride. No one wants to give 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:45.660 up that power and that ease. 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:48.520 We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a 0:25:48.550 --> 0:25:55.570 word from our sponsors. Something that I think we don't 0:25:56.330 --> 0:25:59.630 follow or take the next step to talk about is 0:26:00.070 --> 0:26:02.330 this is actually part of the reason that a lot 0:26:02.369 --> 0:26:06.310 of us that you would call progressives argue for good policy. 0:26:06.890 --> 0:26:10.110 Because folks who say, oh, smaller government, smaller government, I'm like, 0:26:10.170 --> 0:26:11.889 that just means they want to take your money and 0:26:11.930 --> 0:26:15.679 not have to spend it on you. Good government would 0:26:15.740 --> 0:26:19.760 be a an institution that would be able to step in, 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.190 for example, in a coal mining town in Kentucky and say, hey. 0:26:23.410 --> 0:26:26.330 You know what good government does? As you were saying, 0:26:26.350 --> 0:26:26.770 I know this is. 0:26:26.750 --> 0:26:27.659 Where you're going. It retrains you. 0:26:27.670 --> 0:26:29.590 That's where I'm going. It retrains you. Yes. Good government 0:26:29.650 --> 0:26:32.900 is responsible for roads and highways and infrastructure that we 0:26:32.940 --> 0:26:36.800 can use, right? Yes. Good government also provides you with 0:26:36.840 --> 0:26:39.459 the opportunity for people who live in rural areas, for 0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:42.399 people like us who live in in metropolitan areas to 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:45.790 be able to help you to afford your own infrastructure. 0:26:45.810 --> 0:26:48.970 Yes, to help support you, to help transition you into 0:26:48.990 --> 0:26:50.850 a new job, a new economy. 0:26:50.869 --> 0:26:54.170 Good government gives good schools, right? Good government gives good 0:26:54.210 --> 0:26:57.370 transportation for people to be able to fly, public transportation, 0:26:57.890 --> 0:27:01.010 all kinds of things, safety nets. That's what good government does. 0:27:01.070 --> 0:27:02.930 And so why do we want to make that smaller, 0:27:03.190 --> 0:27:04.899 especially if you are a person who says you're a 0:27:04.890 --> 0:27:06.190 Christian and you're supposed to be looking out for the 0:27:06.240 --> 0:27:08.159 least of these, why are you leaving some people in 0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:10.840 a lurch and you're trying to shrink the role of government. 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:12.760 I'm not saying government should be out of control, but 0:27:12.780 --> 0:27:15.419 we need good government. So I thank you for raising 0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:16.080 that point, Sophia. 0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:18.659 Well, because the way I think about it, Don, is like, listen, 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.680 people forget, you know, you look around, like I'm looking 0:27:21.700 --> 0:27:25.719 out my window at the neighborhood. This doesn't exist without 0:27:25.900 --> 0:27:30.379 generations of investment. The roads, the schools, the air we breathe, 0:27:30.420 --> 0:27:32.100 the water we drink, the fact that it comes out 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:33.919 of our taps at all, the fact that you can 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:37.810 flush a toilet, like that's the result of policy and 0:27:37.850 --> 0:27:41.830 of investment. And when I consider the fact that everybody, 0:27:41.869 --> 0:27:43.970 whether you live in a metropolitan city like you and 0:27:44.030 --> 0:27:46.250 I do or you live in a rural community where 0:27:46.490 --> 0:27:51.699 I also spend half my time, like your investment as 0:27:51.740 --> 0:27:55.899 a taxpayer, you are investing in essentially the company that 0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:59.090 is America. You are supposed to get a return on 0:27:59.130 --> 0:28:02.720 that investment. Your tax dollars are supposed to go into 0:28:02.790 --> 0:28:06.850 that pool that makes everybody's life better. And they've bamboozled 0:28:06.890 --> 0:28:09.510 people by making you think your neighbor is your enemy 0:28:09.850 --> 0:28:12.450 so you don't realize the people taking all of our money, 0:28:12.609 --> 0:28:14.870 and I mean ours, every single one of us, our 0:28:14.930 --> 0:28:19.480 tax dollars, and spending it on themselves instead of on us. Like, 0:28:19.660 --> 0:28:22.020 we're not the problem. Your neighbor's not the problem. The 0:28:22.100 --> 0:28:24.560 immigrant down the street's not the problem. The problem is 0:28:25.140 --> 0:28:29.030 that the current squatter in the Oval Office wants to 0:28:29.070 --> 0:28:32.770 be a Putin and not a Carter. And we're not 0:28:32.869 --> 0:28:37.430 investing in our countrymen. Our country is being fleeced for 0:28:37.450 --> 0:28:40.330 the wealthy. And that is the sort of thing, it's like, 0:28:40.750 --> 0:28:43.130 they have to keep us involved in culture wars because 0:28:43.170 --> 0:28:45.830 if we really start paying attention to the economics, everybody's 0:28:45.850 --> 0:28:48.780 going to go crazy. You know, I think something that's 0:28:48.820 --> 0:28:51.380 waking people up on that subject is the war in Iran. 0:28:52.120 --> 0:28:54.520 Because people are going, what do you mean they've spent... 0:28:55.060 --> 0:28:59.290 a hundred and fifty billion dollars doing that. But they 0:28:59.330 --> 0:29:01.590 say we can't go to the doctor. Like they say 0:29:01.630 --> 0:29:05.030 our kids can't have after school programs. What do you mean? 0:29:05.350 --> 0:29:08.870 We can't have affordable health care when actually you're talking 0:29:08.890 --> 0:29:10.950 about Iran. You're talking about the war and the U.S. 0:29:10.990 --> 0:29:12.950 is in it with Israel. You know, it was affordable 0:29:12.970 --> 0:29:14.580 health care in Israel. 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:18.600 And every other peer nation on Earth, by the way. Yeah. 0:29:19.260 --> 0:29:21.640 You know, all of them. You go to Europe. The 0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:26.230 health care is incredible. And we've been sort of fed 0:29:26.250 --> 0:29:28.979 this PR campaign that it just couldn't happen here. But 0:29:29.460 --> 0:29:33.320 it can. We just have to invest in our own country. 0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.250 And I'm curious, you know, for you, because obviously you've 0:29:36.290 --> 0:29:39.110 covered so many conflicts. You know, you've been on the 0:29:39.170 --> 0:29:44.160 inside of news reports. for things that well predate, you know, 0:29:44.220 --> 0:29:48.300 the war that we launched in Iran. What, how do 0:29:48.340 --> 0:29:50.990 you make sense of this? Because for me, I look 0:29:51.010 --> 0:29:53.710 at the news every day. We've supposedly won 10 times. 0:29:54.590 --> 0:29:58.350 we've supposedly destroyed their nuclear capabilities, but they're supposedly going 0:29:58.370 --> 0:30:00.250 to give us a better nuclear deal than they gave 0:30:00.310 --> 0:30:02.690 to us with Obama. The, the straight used to be 0:30:02.790 --> 0:30:04.650 open for free. And now I guess we're going to 0:30:04.690 --> 0:30:07.480 have to give them $ 300 billion a year or something. 0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:10.040 I don't know. That might be a misquote. I remember 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:13.340 the number 300 and there's so much information that at 0:30:13.360 --> 0:30:15.960 this point, my brain feels like a jumbled box of 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:21.550 puzzle pieces, but there's clearly no clear exit strategy. So like, 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:24.700 As a person who's been an insider in the space, 0:30:26.180 --> 0:30:28.920 what do you think is the objective? Like, how does 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.490 this ever end? Are we going to just have to 0:30:32.550 --> 0:30:35.310 wait until we get a new president? Like, what's happening? 0:30:35.330 --> 0:30:40.380 That is a very good question. I think we are 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:41.940 going to have to wait till we get a new president, 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:45.030 because if you look, you know, Donald Trump is in 0:30:45.070 --> 0:30:48.330 bed with Benjamin Netanyahu. I mean, Netanyahu is a terrible leader. 0:30:48.350 --> 0:30:51.890 Netanyahu has been saying they were there 30 minutes away. 0:30:52.130 --> 0:30:54.290 I'm paraphrasing here from a nuclear weapon. He's been saying 0:30:54.310 --> 0:30:55.330 that for decades now. 0:30:55.410 --> 0:30:56.310 Yeah. 0:30:56.550 --> 0:31:00.630 Donald Trump likes strong men and he likes authoritarians. He 0:31:00.690 --> 0:31:03.670 likes fascists and dictators. So I think we're going to 0:31:03.690 --> 0:31:05.130 have to wait because Donald Trump is not going to, 0:31:06.070 --> 0:31:09.710 you know, change at the ripe young age of 80. 0:31:09.710 --> 0:31:11.650 He's never going to change. If anything, it's going to 0:31:11.690 --> 0:31:15.610 become worse. So I don't know. Here's the thing. I 0:31:15.610 --> 0:31:17.130 don't know if we'll have to wait for a new president. 0:31:17.170 --> 0:31:18.650 I think we'll have to wait for a new Congress 0:31:19.430 --> 0:31:22.580 and possibly a new Senate. And they know it. And 0:31:22.600 --> 0:31:26.760 that's why they tried to restrict voting, mail-in balloting, and 0:31:27.980 --> 0:31:30.220 changing the voting lines in the U.S. so that it 0:31:30.260 --> 0:31:33.660 restricts poor people and Black people from being able to vote. 0:31:34.770 --> 0:31:39.670 Less access to the voting box, the ballot box. then 0:31:39.780 --> 0:31:42.940 more when we should be out there really advocating for 0:31:42.980 --> 0:31:46.760 more access. People should have more access. And so I 0:31:46.780 --> 0:31:48.920 think we're going to have to wait. What is going on? Again, 0:31:49.020 --> 0:31:54.410 it is the last gasp of the old system. And 0:31:54.430 --> 0:31:58.709 I think really young people, young people are really going 0:31:58.730 --> 0:32:01.390 to have to come out in this next election, the 0:32:01.430 --> 0:32:04.900 next two elections, big elections, and make their voices heard 0:32:05.300 --> 0:32:07.810 because you've got this old guard and you have You know, 0:32:07.910 --> 0:32:12.190 the MAGA folks who want things to stay the exact 0:32:12.230 --> 0:32:15.070 same way that they're staying, they will fight tooth and nail. 0:32:15.170 --> 0:32:18.370 That's their motivation. We have to be motivated by change. 0:32:18.390 --> 0:32:20.870 And I think that energy is in the young folks 0:32:20.950 --> 0:32:26.360 who realize like, man, it's costing a lot more to 0:32:26.430 --> 0:32:29.300 do a lot less. You know, why are my dinners 0:32:29.360 --> 0:32:30.120 a hundred bucks? 0:32:30.620 --> 0:32:31.440 It's crazy. 0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:33.980 It's right. But, you know, older folks, I'm going to 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.650 be honest with you. The older folks, the boomers- The 0:32:37.690 --> 0:32:42.650 Gen Xers, like, you know, pretty much, I'm generalizing, doing okay. 0:32:42.990 --> 0:32:45.710 Maybe they got mommy and daddy's retirement, right? Because they're 0:32:45.730 --> 0:32:48.120 boomers and whatever. All of the things. But young people 0:32:48.180 --> 0:32:50.880 don't have that. The prices are going up for everything. 0:32:51.300 --> 0:32:55.480 And everything isn't going up to match it. The resources 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:57.580 that they have aren't going up to match it. And 0:32:57.620 --> 0:33:00.680 we have to do something about it. But the thing is, 0:33:01.180 --> 0:33:02.860 as a small business owner, I don't know about you, 0:33:04.200 --> 0:33:04.780 it ain't easy. 0:33:05.320 --> 0:33:06.130 No, it's really hard. 0:33:06.150 --> 0:33:08.200 For the taxes that we have to pay and the 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:10.720 amount for health care that we have to put into 0:33:10.760 --> 0:33:14.380 the system. It's really restrictive. And someone needs to come 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:18.200 in and change that to make the American dream possible 0:33:18.260 --> 0:33:19.540 for everyone. 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.560 Yeah, because again, the country is supposed to work for 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:25.740 us and our investment in it is supposed to have 0:33:25.780 --> 0:33:27.870 a return. I just I'm going to hammer at home 0:33:28.070 --> 0:33:30.890 every single day, you know, not just till the election, 0:33:30.950 --> 0:33:33.410 but forever, because I think we have to remember what 0:33:33.450 --> 0:33:36.060 it is we're doing here. And that when you are 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:40.360 a citizen, it really is a it's a membership ticket 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:43.180 to a community project, you know, and you brought it 0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.620 up with voting. Their attempts to restrict the voting process, 0:33:47.740 --> 0:33:49.729 their attempts, you know, they're saying they're going to unleash 0:33:49.890 --> 0:33:54.050 ice on the polling places to scare people. Despite the 0:33:54.090 --> 0:33:56.250 fact that, you know, in over 10 years, I mean, 0:33:56.270 --> 0:33:59.050 the Heritage Foundation itself has analyzed something like 19, you. 0:33:58.970 --> 0:33:59.730 Know, 19. 0:33:59.730 --> 0:34:05.500 What was it? It's hundreds of millions of ballots cast, essentially, 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.990 and they found like 400 examples of voter fraud. It's 0:34:09.410 --> 0:34:11.790 such a small number that it doesn't even have a number. 0:34:11.830 --> 0:34:13.469 It's mathematically insignificant. 0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:15.900 And many of those are unintentional. 0:34:16.410 --> 0:34:20.740 Right. Yes. Yeah. Like someone who moves and didn't realize 0:34:20.780 --> 0:34:22.900 that they filled out their old ballot, but then they 0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:25.500 filled out their new ballot. And that was against the rules. 0:34:25.900 --> 0:34:28.020 It wasn't like a group of immigrants that were coming 0:34:28.060 --> 0:34:29.960 together and they were like, OK, we're going to go 0:34:30.040 --> 0:34:33.030 out and vote because we know we can't. It was like, oh, 0:34:33.050 --> 0:34:34.940 some people are like, I thought I could. But if 0:34:34.980 --> 0:34:37.580 you look at the actual instances of voter fraud that 0:34:37.660 --> 0:34:39.920 get prosecuted, it's Republican. 0:34:39.940 --> 0:34:41.340 I know every time. 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:42.509 Mainly Republicans. 0:34:42.810 --> 0:34:46.270 It's so crazy, Don. But I'm curious about this, you know, 0:34:46.330 --> 0:34:50.609 because from DeJoy's attempts to take over the USPS and, 0:34:50.910 --> 0:34:53.160 you know, they're they're purging people from the voter rolls. 0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:55.160 They don't want you to be able to vote at all. 0:34:56.380 --> 0:34:59.890 Courts are fighting over the mail ballot rules and ballots 0:34:59.930 --> 0:35:04.009 are already going out. So as someone who understands that, 0:35:04.150 --> 0:35:06.489 you know, with an administration like this, the confusion is 0:35:06.530 --> 0:35:11.880 the point, but also we understand that confusion can have 0:35:12.010 --> 0:35:16.420 real consequences for people. In a moment like this, you know, 0:35:17.100 --> 0:35:22.400 what do you think is our best practice as a 0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:25.819 citizenry to ensure that we actually get our votes counted? 0:35:28.310 --> 0:35:32.210 What should we do? Yeah. Well, look, I'll give you 0:35:32.230 --> 0:35:36.120 a story. When I first started doing this, I lost 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:37.839 your screen. Oh, there's your picture. Okay. You can edit 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.020 that out. So I was like looking for where is 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.259 your picture? You know, sometimes it's Zoom. Yeah. Where'd you go? 0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.560 I could hear you. Okay. So I'll give you an 0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:48.259 example of when I first started doing this. And so 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:50.010 I came from, this is the thing, I came from 0:35:50.070 --> 0:35:53.790 an old school system. And if you look at many 0:35:53.810 --> 0:35:56.029 of the old school systems like that, it's going away. 0:35:56.110 --> 0:35:58.950 Even like big corporations, people who work for a certain 0:35:58.969 --> 0:36:02.030 place for years. My mom and dad worked for Exxon 0:36:02.070 --> 0:36:05.129 for 30 some odd years. Retired and got a great thing. 0:36:05.190 --> 0:36:07.529 That does not happen very often now, if at all. 0:36:07.570 --> 0:36:11.990 It's happening less and less. And think about it. Those 0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:16.759 big organizations that are making billions of dollars are cutting back. Now, 0:36:16.780 --> 0:36:20.259 think about small businesses, how tough that is. Yes. When 0:36:20.300 --> 0:36:22.319 I started doing this, I was part of the old 0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:26.860 system where I relied on my agent. Hey, this is 0:36:26.900 --> 0:36:31.029 what I want. Okay. Give me a day or five 0:36:31.070 --> 0:36:33.690 minutes or whatever. I'll be back to you. Okay. Hey, Don, 0:36:33.710 --> 0:36:36.210 you're up in six months. They're coming to you early. 0:36:36.510 --> 0:36:38.230 They want to offer you this, blah, blah, blah. It's 0:36:38.250 --> 0:36:41.890 a ratings bonus. Here's what it is. And then it's like, oh, 0:36:41.950 --> 0:36:44.259 you know, you got this speaking engagement and that and whatever. 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:46.980 And then all of that is going. So that went away. 0:36:47.000 --> 0:36:49.480 It's going away. And my friend who was part of 0:36:49.540 --> 0:36:51.900 a traditional system, who was an agent, she goes, it's 0:36:51.940 --> 0:36:53.800 time for you to take your career into your own hands. 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:55.480 You can't rely on these people because they don't know 0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.089 what to do. And so I took my instincts from 0:36:58.130 --> 0:36:59.410 that and I said, I'm going to take what I 0:36:59.450 --> 0:37:01.450 learned in traditional media and then I'm going to not 0:37:01.570 --> 0:37:05.390 judge what's happening in this new medium that I'm in. 0:37:05.530 --> 0:37:07.130 And then I'm just going to go and see what happens. 0:37:07.570 --> 0:37:11.540 And so I started saying, okay, I'm open. Let's see 0:37:12.440 --> 0:37:15.280 what happens. So we are going to have to take 0:37:15.540 --> 0:37:19.710 our voting rights seriously. our ability to be able to vote, 0:37:20.350 --> 0:37:22.049 our ability to show up. We have to take all 0:37:22.070 --> 0:37:25.490 of that into our own hands because guess what, Americans? 0:37:25.710 --> 0:37:28.230 Your agents aren't looking out for you. They don't know 0:37:28.310 --> 0:37:31.009 what to do. Your representatives don't know what to do. 0:37:31.350 --> 0:37:33.490 The folks who are fighting for democracy are the Democrats, 0:37:33.510 --> 0:37:35.210 but they're not doing such a great job of it, 0:37:35.270 --> 0:37:38.660 I believe. And I'm on their side now because I 0:37:38.700 --> 0:37:40.859 think they're fighting for democracy. The other side is not. 0:37:41.160 --> 0:37:42.380 But we're going to have to take it into our 0:37:42.430 --> 0:37:45.100 own hands. And I believe the people who are going 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.500 to do that especially I am all with my old heads, 0:37:48.580 --> 0:37:51.960 my old school, my OGs, right? Who have made a 0:37:51.980 --> 0:37:54.400 way for the Nancy Pelosi's of the world and all 0:37:54.420 --> 0:37:57.900 those folks. I am for the James Clyburn. I am 0:37:58.000 --> 0:38:00.580 with them, but also I'm with the young people who 0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:02.580 they need to make room for because the young people 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:05.090 are going to take things into their own hands, I believe. 0:38:05.630 --> 0:38:08.090 If you draw them in and give them a reason 0:38:08.130 --> 0:38:10.930 to do so, to let them know, to make sure 0:38:10.989 --> 0:38:13.839 that change is possible and they need to create the 0:38:13.900 --> 0:38:16.219 world that they want to live in moving forward. That's 0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:16.900 what we have to do. 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.779 Well, and listen, I mean, you said it yourself. There's 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:22.960 one side that's actually fighting for democracy, and there's another 0:38:23.020 --> 0:38:25.390 side that's living in this crazy fantasy land. I mean, 0:38:25.570 --> 0:38:28.650 the latest insane promise, oh, I'm going to give everybody 0:38:28.650 --> 0:38:33.130 $ 5, 000 if Republicans win the midterms. No, you're not. You 0:38:33.150 --> 0:38:34.930 didn't give us a tariff check. 0:38:34.989 --> 0:38:36.660 You didn't give anybody the reliefs. 0:38:37.030 --> 0:38:40.530 There were no doze checks. You've stolen all the money 0:38:41.330 --> 0:38:42.410 and we're not stupid. 0:38:42.710 --> 0:38:45.810 Can I raise my hand here? Yeah. When you said 0:38:45.850 --> 0:38:48.590 did not give us, we should know better. And I 0:38:48.630 --> 0:38:52.149 tried to say this during the 2024 election when people 0:38:52.170 --> 0:38:54.970 would tell me, hey, Donald Trump gave me a STEMI. 0:38:55.450 --> 0:38:56.720 A stimulus check. Nope. 0:38:57.010 --> 0:38:57.450 No, he didn't. 0:38:57.469 --> 0:39:00.180 And I said, no, that was Nancy Pelosi, you dumbass. 0:39:00.340 --> 0:39:02.800 Like Donald Trump as president can't just give you a 0:39:02.820 --> 0:39:06.180 stimulus check. That is Congress. Nancy Pelosi worked that out 0:39:06.219 --> 0:39:08.299 to give you that stimulus check. But yet you are 0:39:08.340 --> 0:39:14.950 handing the credit to someone who didn't do it just 0:39:14.989 --> 0:39:17.259 because he says so. So we're going to have to 0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:19.170 do our own homework, too, as well. I'm sorry to 0:39:19.210 --> 0:39:19.670 cut you off. 0:39:19.810 --> 0:39:22.190 No, but I agree with you. I mean, listen, we 0:39:22.210 --> 0:39:24.330 all know that that check is as likely to hit 0:39:24.390 --> 0:39:26.870 anybody's mailbox as a unicorn is to show up in 0:39:26.910 --> 0:39:30.480 your backyard because neither are real. But I'm curious. because 0:39:30.500 --> 0:39:33.299 you said it, you know, I believe a lot in 0:39:33.340 --> 0:39:36.780 a lot of the principles of the Democratic Party because 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.489 I believe in democracy itself and I believe in progress 0:39:39.570 --> 0:39:43.830 and I believe in being inclusive rather than exclusionary. That's 0:39:43.910 --> 0:39:45.470 sort of the whole point of this country. 0:39:46.030 --> 0:39:46.840 And yet.... 0:39:48.540 --> 0:39:51.680 A lot of it feels pretty toothless. In the best 0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:53.969 case scenario, the Dems are going to win in an 0:39:54.090 --> 0:39:57.730 indisputable landslide. But then what? Do you think they're going 0:39:57.750 --> 0:39:59.810 to get it together to actually fight this guy? 0:40:00.550 --> 0:40:03.750 I go back to my previous answer. We can't rely 0:40:03.810 --> 0:40:07.350 on them to do so. I don't think so. We 0:40:07.989 --> 0:40:11.330 need people who are not scared, people who are unafraid 0:40:11.350 --> 0:40:15.330 and unbothered. We need leaders who are not going to 0:40:15.370 --> 0:40:19.410 allow their enemies to define them or to shape their message. 0:40:19.430 --> 0:40:21.549 They're going to do it themselves. We need people who 0:40:21.570 --> 0:40:24.610 are not afraid of Donald Trump, not afraid of Republicans, 0:40:24.650 --> 0:40:27.850 not afraid of saying the wrong thing, because that's just, 0:40:27.890 --> 0:40:30.509 people aren't always perfect. We need people who are going 0:40:30.530 --> 0:40:33.010 to say, we need to get rid of the electoral 0:40:33.050 --> 0:40:36.440 college because we're being, it's minority rule in this country. 0:40:36.460 --> 0:40:37.680 If you look at the majority of the people, they 0:40:37.700 --> 0:40:40.220 don't want to be under these restrictive laws that have been, 0:40:40.340 --> 0:40:43.040 some of them have been implemented since MAGA. We're going 0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:44.940 to have to, someone is going to have to say, hey, look, 0:40:46.110 --> 0:40:49.190 With the Supreme Court, perhaps we need to expand it, 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.540 or maybe not perhaps, we need to expand it. They're 0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:54.739 going to have to make tough calls, tough decisions, and 0:40:55.020 --> 0:40:58.380 make decisions and say things that everybody's not going to 0:40:58.420 --> 0:41:02.050 agree with. Because right now, everyone is too safe. Too safe. 0:41:02.390 --> 0:41:05.250 Not everyone. A lot of people in leadership positions are 0:41:05.290 --> 0:41:09.110 too safe. And Americans don't want that. They want a fighter. Yeah. 0:41:09.910 --> 0:41:12.589 Well, and it's time. I mean, we need to be 0:41:12.610 --> 0:41:17.400 defended economically. We need someone to stand up for our healthcare. 0:41:17.420 --> 0:41:21.000 We need people to stand up for our neighbors. And 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.759 when you see the kind of double standard about what's 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:27.020 expected from a lot of us and then what gets 0:41:27.060 --> 0:41:29.959 a pass on their side, I mean, where in God's 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:32.399 name is Mitch McConnell? I don't wanna see one more 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:35.640 AI generated photo of him. I don't wanna hear that 0:41:35.700 --> 0:41:39.750 he's doing great. I don't accept that a man who 0:41:39.810 --> 0:41:43.680 will not allow mothers who serve our country, who've just 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:47.700 given birth to cast their congressional votes from home, but 0:41:47.900 --> 0:41:52.370 expects to be able to legislate from some supposed hospital 0:41:52.430 --> 0:41:55.300 facility where he is, and they're lying to us about it. 0:41:55.410 --> 0:41:59.029 It's like the rules, the whole rules for me, but, 0:41:59.230 --> 0:42:02.380 you know, free for me, but rules for the thing. 0:42:02.780 --> 0:42:06.160 It just makes me crazy. And I, I don't know. 0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:09.419 We're entering into this time where it's hard to even 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:12.780 tell what's real in the first place. And as AI 0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:16.109 gets better, we might not know that the photo that 0:42:16.140 --> 0:42:18.750 he released was AI. Somebody might not be able to 0:42:18.830 --> 0:42:21.250 match where it actually came from and do the breakdown 0:42:21.270 --> 0:42:25.049 like they did so well online. And I just can't 0:42:25.090 --> 0:42:28.330 believe we don't have any rules about, you know, basic 0:42:28.410 --> 0:42:33.489 truth or operating procedures at the highest levels of our 0:42:33.530 --> 0:42:34.310 government anymore. 0:42:35.380 --> 0:42:37.799 We don't. But guess what? Guess what? I think I 0:42:37.820 --> 0:42:40.840 think there's an opportunity there. I think there's an opportunity because. 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:42.420 Give me an opportunity. I love that. 0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.920 No, but I think there's an opportunity. There's an opportunity 0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:47.200 for people like you and me who have these platforms 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.969 to speak out loudly about what what we just talked 0:42:51.010 --> 0:42:52.950 about today, about taking it into your own hands. And 0:42:52.969 --> 0:42:55.489 I think if someone comes with that message, whether they're 0:42:55.510 --> 0:42:58.630 running for Congress or Senate or president, I think that 0:42:58.670 --> 0:43:01.879 they'll be very successful in their efforts. And here's what 0:43:01.900 --> 0:43:04.340 I think young people need to know, okay? And I 0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:07.160 like to give people advice when they ask me. I 0:43:07.219 --> 0:43:10.969 tell young people, you know, you mentioned AI. When I 0:43:11.010 --> 0:43:12.630 was growing, back in my day, I know I sound 0:43:12.650 --> 0:43:15.750 like an old man, but back in my day, we 0:43:15.790 --> 0:43:19.280 had other people were our competitions, other network, other journalists, 0:43:19.300 --> 0:43:21.660 other people who worked with us as our competition. And 0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:24.400 so we had to fight really, really hard for what 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:27.480 we wanted. We had to work hard, right? Like, you know, 0:43:27.580 --> 0:43:30.390 for years, I didn't take vacations. And then, you know, 0:43:30.570 --> 0:43:32.230 I think for 10 years when I was at CNN, 0:43:32.250 --> 0:43:34.150 I didn't take a vacation. And they were like, OK, 0:43:34.170 --> 0:43:36.089 you need to take some fucking time off. I'm like, OK, 0:43:36.110 --> 0:43:38.549 I will. And I'm not saying that everyone has to 0:43:38.590 --> 0:43:40.370 do that. That was kind of, you know, me being 0:43:40.410 --> 0:43:43.830 crazy and an overachiever. But not only do you have 0:43:43.910 --> 0:43:50.430 other people as competition, you've got artificial intelligence who works 0:43:50.430 --> 0:43:54.520 24 hours a day. And whether you like it or not, 0:43:54.540 --> 0:43:57.120 whether that's fair or not, that is, that's the moment 0:43:57.140 --> 0:43:59.480 that we're in right now where your competition is greater 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.460 than any, I think at any other time in history 0:44:03.140 --> 0:44:07.299 that you have to, in order to be successful in 0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:08.839 whatever it is that you want to do, you not 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:11.819 only have to outperform your fellow coworkers or people who 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:14.700 are in your sphere, you've got to outperform in many ways, 0:44:15.260 --> 0:44:18.930 a computer, a person, something that can regenerate and become 0:44:18.969 --> 0:44:22.390 smarter by the moment. And that's a scary prospect, I believe, 0:44:22.430 --> 0:44:25.270 for young folks. And I don't know, that would keep 0:44:25.310 --> 0:44:27.290 me up at night if I was just starting my career. 0:44:28.070 --> 0:44:31.730 Yeah. Where do you find hope with all that right now? 0:44:32.430 --> 0:44:34.689 I do have hope in humanity, although for the last 0:44:34.690 --> 0:44:40.480 10 years I haven't. But I have been around long 0:44:40.540 --> 0:44:45.620 enough to believe in physics and that the pendulum always swings, right? 0:44:45.840 --> 0:44:48.160 One way you get the little, it swings a little 0:44:48.180 --> 0:44:50.779 bit and then it starts moving. going really far and 0:44:50.860 --> 0:44:53.520 if it swings really far to the right, I think 0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:55.680 what happens next is that it's going to swing really 0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:57.520 far to the left. I'm not saying that's great that 0:44:57.540 --> 0:44:59.160 we should be that far to the left, but at 0:44:59.239 --> 0:45:01.320 least it's taking us back into a direction that is 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:06.670 more manageable and that the arc of, what is it? 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:08.900 Moral justice bends, the arc of moral. 0:45:09.100 --> 0:45:11.800 The arc of the universe bends toward justice. Yeah. 0:45:11.820 --> 0:45:14.279 Towards justice or something like that. Yeah. So I just 0:45:14.340 --> 0:45:17.799 hope that we are bending towards, I don't want to be, 0:45:18.390 --> 0:45:21.279 give the wrong quote, I just hope that we're bending 0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:23.900 towards that justice, that we're moving into the right direction 0:45:23.940 --> 0:45:26.480 at least. And so I feel that at this point, 0:45:27.280 --> 0:45:31.120 if we swing left, that is more manageable than swinging right, 0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:34.270 because the left is usually more open to rights for everyone, right? 0:45:34.350 --> 0:45:39.710 Rights for women, men, trans, LGBTQ. They want to treat 0:45:39.750 --> 0:45:43.430 people with more humanity. And then on the right- They 0:45:43.450 --> 0:45:46.750 want to restrict the rights for folks and demonize people 0:45:46.790 --> 0:45:48.609 who are part of the underserved community. So I think 0:45:48.910 --> 0:45:51.550 moving in this left direction will take us in a 0:45:51.590 --> 0:45:52.950 better direction than we're in now. 0:45:53.489 --> 0:45:54.739 Yeah, I certainly hope so. 0:45:55.040 --> 0:45:56.720 So that's where my hope lies. 0:45:57.420 --> 0:45:59.380 And now a word from our sponsors who make this 0:45:59.420 --> 0:46:13.529 show possible. I like to go a little deep on 0:46:13.989 --> 0:46:16.930 the sort of emotional and inspirational. Last year, you told 0:46:16.969 --> 0:46:20.180 me that your work in progress, you know, with all 0:46:20.219 --> 0:46:21.960 the wonderful things you have going on in your life 0:46:22.000 --> 0:46:25.340 was actually to be more present with your husband, your family, 0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:28.040 your dogs, like to make sure you were leading your 0:46:28.100 --> 0:46:32.100 life and not just building your work. How's it coming? 0:46:32.219 --> 0:46:34.140 How's the progress going? 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:39.270 Yeah. It's coming. I look, I can be better at that. 0:46:39.330 --> 0:46:40.730 I'm going to be honest. I could be better at 0:46:40.790 --> 0:46:43.330 being more present and being a, we can always work 0:46:43.370 --> 0:46:44.690 better at being better partners. 0:46:44.750 --> 0:46:44.930 Right. 0:46:44.950 --> 0:46:48.339 I mean, you know that, right. Totally. And so I can't, 0:46:48.420 --> 0:46:51.239 I try, I'm not, I'm not as good as I 0:46:51.260 --> 0:46:57.060 should be. And it's really because we're in a, we're 0:46:57.080 --> 0:46:59.180 in a scrappy, this is a scrappy time right there, 0:46:59.340 --> 0:47:02.200 right now. It won't always be scrappy. Like I'd like 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:03.790 to get to a point where it doesn't have to 0:47:03.830 --> 0:47:06.660 be so much scrappiness, but when you're building, You got 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:09.520 to hustle, right? When you're young and you're starting out, 0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:10.989 if you're doing a career change, you got to hustle. 0:47:11.050 --> 0:47:15.950 It's all about the hustle. So I could be better 0:47:16.390 --> 0:47:18.589 at that. I try. The thing is, though, is that 0:47:18.630 --> 0:47:21.030 I travel a lot. And so I try to bring 0:47:21.130 --> 0:47:22.930 him with me. I try to bring the entire family. 0:47:22.969 --> 0:47:26.330 This weekend, I had shows with D.O. Hughley. We're doing 0:47:26.350 --> 0:47:29.240 a tour around America. And so we brought the whole family. 0:47:29.620 --> 0:47:32.420 We brought the dogs and Tim. And so I realized 0:47:32.540 --> 0:47:35.420 maybe we can't bring the dogs just for like a 0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:38.140 two-day thing. Like maybe they should be with a dog sitter. 0:47:38.580 --> 0:47:40.700 So I try to make sure the family is incorporated 0:47:40.719 --> 0:47:43.460 in as much as possible. And I'm lucky enough to 0:47:43.500 --> 0:47:49.690 have a husband who allows that to happen, unselfishly allows 0:47:49.730 --> 0:47:50.290 that to happen. 0:47:50.830 --> 0:47:51.890 Yeah, it's great. 0:47:52.430 --> 0:47:53.850 One day he's going to go, all right, I'm sick 0:47:53.890 --> 0:47:54.089 of this. 0:47:56.610 --> 0:47:58.630 But I think it's really good. You know, you figure 0:47:58.710 --> 0:48:01.509 out ways to show up for each other and to 0:48:01.590 --> 0:48:06.110 support each other. And sometimes you build your personal moments 0:48:06.130 --> 0:48:09.870 around being on the road for your professional life. And 0:48:09.910 --> 0:48:12.660 that's just what it is. I think for any of 0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:16.900 us who is an independent contractor in any fashion, it 0:48:16.980 --> 0:48:21.819 requires creativity. But, you know, my partner and I talk 0:48:21.860 --> 0:48:24.010 about this a lot. It also enables us to have 0:48:24.050 --> 0:48:26.270 experiences together that a lot of other people don't get 0:48:26.290 --> 0:48:28.810 to have. And I feel really lucky for that. So 0:48:28.850 --> 0:48:31.430 I try to remember that so that I don't just 0:48:31.530 --> 0:48:35.350 feel stressed by the schedule, you know, all the time. 0:48:35.370 --> 0:48:35.450 Yeah. 0:48:37.190 --> 0:48:38.750 But it's good. 0:48:38.890 --> 0:48:42.700 I think, though, I have, like, I've gone through some 0:48:42.739 --> 0:48:45.799 really tough spots, right? And everybody has, right? It's not 0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:48.219 unique to me. But then you look back on them. 0:48:48.260 --> 0:48:50.419 Maybe we just romanticized the past and you're looking, ah, 0:48:50.440 --> 0:48:53.319 that wasn't so bad. I survived that. Or in the moment, 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:55.640 I didn't realize how much fun that was or what 0:48:55.680 --> 0:48:58.670 a great moment. cocktail party story that would, you know, 0:48:58.730 --> 0:49:00.750 that it would be, or, you know, every, when I, 0:49:00.830 --> 0:49:03.779 when I was on the weekends at CNN and I'm like, 0:49:03.820 --> 0:49:05.279 why am I on the weekends for such a long 0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:08.140 time that all of a sudden, well, we got a 0:49:08.160 --> 0:49:09.680 new boss and he's like, why the are you on 0:49:09.700 --> 0:49:11.259 the weekends? Like you should, you need to be at 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:13.550 the center. And I'm like, yes. And so I never 0:49:13.620 --> 0:49:16.370 gave up. And so I think that I look at 0:49:16.410 --> 0:49:19.310 these moments as well, even when it's difficult as, and 0:49:19.330 --> 0:49:21.239 when there's growing people, like we're going to look back 0:49:21.280 --> 0:49:23.720 at this and go, oh my gosh, remember when this happened? 0:49:23.739 --> 0:49:25.040 And remember when we did this and we. 0:49:24.980 --> 0:49:27.540 Survived this and look at us now, you always have 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.770 the look at us now moments. Just like, I believe 0:49:31.550 --> 0:49:34.330 the folks who got into this part of the business 0:49:34.370 --> 0:49:36.270 before us, like the Joe Rogans of the world or 0:49:36.290 --> 0:49:38.630 any of the folks like that, like they'll come a 0:49:38.670 --> 0:49:41.520 day when you go, oh, look at what we've built. 0:49:42.060 --> 0:49:43.759 Look at the employees that we're able to do for 0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:46.460 the people who helped us to build this. It's going 0:49:46.480 --> 0:49:49.680 to take a while to get there. But once it does, 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:51.460 I think it's going to be really, really, really great. 0:49:51.480 --> 0:49:53.589 So I don't look at these as hardships. I think 0:49:53.640 --> 0:49:58.810 it's challenges that let's see, let's figure out how we 0:49:59.030 --> 0:50:01.450 overcome these challenges and make the best of them. 0:50:01.850 --> 0:50:04.110 I love that. Well, we're just all so happy to 0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:07.160 To have you back. You know, I adore you and 0:50:07.180 --> 0:50:09.720 we love the Don Lemon Show. And I love that 0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:12.130 it's on every single platform now for all of us 0:50:12.230 --> 0:50:13.060 because we need it. 0:50:13.430 --> 0:50:14.970 Thank you, Sophia Bush.