Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My
Speaker 1: guest is Courtney White, President of Wheelhouse Entertainment. She runs
Speaker 1: the production arm of Brent Montgomery's Wheelhouse Venture, which includes TV,
Speaker 1: film and digital production, brand management, and an investment arm.
Speaker 1: White spent seventeen years as a top programming executive for
Speaker 1: Food Network and HGTV. She joined the Wheelhouse Group in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, when she exited her job just in
Speaker 1: advance of the merger that created Warner Brothers Discovery. White
Speaker 1: explains how Wheelhouse is navigating a topsy Turvey marketplace for content.
Speaker 1: It's all about the quality of the idea and the
Speaker 1: quality of the elements that are producer brings to the table.
Speaker 1: She also explains why Wheelhouse has invested significant resources to
Speaker 1: host networking events for creatives in New York, LA and
Speaker 1: other cities. In a world where most pitches now take
Speaker 1: place on Zoom, Wheelhouse wants to create that environment of
Speaker 1: spontaneous chit chat that sometimes.
Speaker 2: Leads to huge breakthroughs.
Speaker 1: White gives a great example in the conversation that is
Speaker 1: coming up right after this break, and we're back with
Speaker 1: the conversation with Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney White. Courtney White,
Speaker 1: President of Wheelhouse Entertainment, thank you so much for having
Speaker 1: me here at the Wheelhouse House in West Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming. It's a pleasure to talk with
Speaker 3: you this afternoon. We are talking a few hours before
Speaker 3: you host a Ladies launch event, a networking mixer for
Speaker 3: all kinds of creative types producers, writers, directors, talent in
Speaker 3: the Los Angeles area. Tell me why Wheelhouse invests in
Speaker 3: this and what you get out of it. Well, it
Speaker 3: goes back to I think the essential DNA of Wheelhouse
Speaker 3: and the initial vision that Brent Montgomery, are founder and CEO,
Speaker 3: launched with, and it's we're in a business that is
Speaker 3: about collaboration, relationships, taking a plus B and making a
Speaker 3: C that has never existed before. And Wheelhouse has invested
Speaker 3: in these properties. We have the Wheelhouse here in West Hollywood,
Speaker 3: one in Tribeca and New York. And while those are
Speaker 3: workspaces and meeting spaces, they're also event spaces for people
Speaker 3: in all different walks of our business. So creatives, people
Speaker 3: in the finance world, talent all come together, and you know,
Speaker 3: it reminds me of something that a lot of people
Speaker 3: are saying post COVID. When you now pitch an idea
Speaker 3: on Zoom, it's a very controlled half hour pitch. You
Speaker 3: pitch the idea, then you click off, and what executives
Speaker 3: and producers say a lot is but the real business
Speaker 3: didn't get done in that pitch. It used to be
Speaker 3: when you walked into the office and you walk to
Speaker 3: the elevator. That's when something happened unplanned, the famous walk
Speaker 3: to the elevator and so many shows we're birth that way.
Speaker 2: And so this is about.
Speaker 3: Bringing people together who might not otherwise intermingle, and it's
Speaker 3: about the magic of collaboration. We all have a lot
Speaker 3: of planned meetings, we all have a lot of very
Speaker 3: strategic let's meet this person. This is a great group
Speaker 3: of people who come together in these events and magic
Speaker 3: happens and connection happens. And then with ladies who launched now,
Speaker 3: I was the beneficiary of growing up in a corporate
Speaker 3: environment where there was a lot of resources spent on
Speaker 3: my growth, and I went to events at Wicked Women
Speaker 3: in Cable Television and those kinds of events, and it
Speaker 3: really helped groom me as an executive. And I did
Speaker 3: see coming out of COVID there was either a cutback
Speaker 3: on companies supplying those resources or cutback on especially young
Speaker 3: women coming into the office. I learned how to do
Speaker 3: my job by watching my mentor, Kathleen do her job,
Speaker 3: and so I really think that that exposure and that
Speaker 3: networking was critical to my career. And we have the
Speaker 3: event spaces, we have events teams, and so to do
Speaker 3: one that was a female focused series seemed to really
Speaker 3: be something that I was passionate about and something that
Speaker 3: Wheelhouse was just turnkey made to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you certainly have quite the setting here. It
Speaker 2: is a it is a warm, you know, cozy ish
Speaker 2: but absolutely gorgeous house, and you fill it with lots
Speaker 2: of you know, it just it's an inviting setting for absolutely,
Speaker 2: for sure. Isn't you raise something interesting? Certainly? I can
Speaker 2: definitely remember, you know, organizations, event and events and organizations
Speaker 2: built around, particularly around the development and nurturing of women
Speaker 2: in cable. And I think I would chalk a lot
Speaker 2: of that up to the fact that cable as a
Speaker 2: nascent industry, you know, going back to the late seventies
Speaker 2: and early eighties. There were there were the k Koppleowitz's,
Speaker 2: there were the Geraldine Leiborns. Was a place for a
Speaker 2: lot of women who might have been banging their heads
Speaker 2: on the or to get to get hired by ABC,
Speaker 2: NBC and CBS, basically the only game in town at
Speaker 2: that time. But here was this new business. Abby Raven
Speaker 2: famously at A and E Networks, started as a secretary
Speaker 2: and left thirty five ish years later as chairman and CEO.
Speaker 2: Doesn't get better than that. From that experience, what did
Speaker 2: you find were really beneficial? Like, what were the networking
Speaker 2: events that really helped you go to the next level,
Speaker 2: or the or the role modeling experiences that really impacted you.
Speaker 3: I remember distinctly this one Wicked leadership session. It was
Speaker 3: probably a two or three day off site, so it
Speaker 3: was an intensive and it was about finding your management style.
Speaker 3: And these were those of us who were participants. You know,
Speaker 3: we were kind of mid level, We had probably just
Speaker 3: started managing one or two people. We were at that
Speaker 3: point of our career.
Speaker 4: The sweet spot for a nurturing I felt, so yeah,
Speaker 4: and so you you kind of understand stood the importance
Speaker 4: of managing people well because you had started to do
Speaker 4: it and you realized how difficult it is and what
Speaker 4: a commitment it is to do it well.
Speaker 3: So it was that perfect time for that training. And
Speaker 3: there were all different styles that we talked about, but
Speaker 3: there was this one. It was like the ultimate quadrant
Speaker 3: that you could you could enter into, which is how
Speaker 3: can you be like lean into female attributes to not
Speaker 3: try to just blend in with men, but really bring
Speaker 3: the female attributes to the table and use them in
Speaker 3: an empowered way, so not try to blend in with
Speaker 3: all of the male suits, but stand out, be confident
Speaker 3: in standing that out. And that that was sort of
Speaker 3: the ultimate, like the ultimate style to aspire to. And
Speaker 3: so I remember that and so like here today at Wheelhouse,
Speaker 3: you know, it's the place is covered in pink flowers.
Speaker 3: You know, like we're leaning into that that feminine power.
Speaker 2: How do you curate the invite list?
Speaker 3: So it's a mix. So we at Wheelhouse always have
Speaker 3: dozens and dozens of partnerships going on, and it's producers,
Speaker 3: broadcast partners, talent, other production companies. So the the list
Speaker 3: always starts with our current partners and then we invite
Speaker 3: them to then to bring people on their teams, and
Speaker 3: it's very purposefully not just made for senior level executives.
Speaker 3: So again, this mission is really to fill in what
Speaker 3: the voids are with people not necessarily being in the
Speaker 3: office all the time, not necessarily having big events that
Speaker 3: are sponsored by their organizations. So we have people who
Speaker 3: are in the first year of their career, we have
Speaker 3: people who are really senior and so at every event,
Speaker 3: and we've done series in both New York and LA
Speaker 3: we do a newsletter and get everybody connected after the fact,
Speaker 3: and then we always get a swell of people who say,
Speaker 3: can this person on my team come? Or I just
Speaker 3: met this person, So it grows really fast.
Speaker 2: I'm joking, but does Wheelhouse have like a first look
Speaker 2: on any ideas that come out of it? Actually, I'm
Speaker 2: only half joking.
Speaker 3: It doesn't. So we feel proud for the connections that
Speaker 3: come here. We you get looped into a lot of
Speaker 3: those kind of connections and partnerships. We at Wheelhouse are
Speaker 3: well represented here, so we've got a lot of our
Speaker 3: labels and teams here. So if something happens that we're
Speaker 3: not a part of and a story is founded here,
Speaker 3: we still consider that a win, and frankly, at this
Speaker 3: point in the industry, you know, any wind for the
Speaker 3: business is a win for us.
Speaker 2: All. It's been more than a few years since Brent
Speaker 2: Montgomery founded Wheelhouse and he you know, I remember he
Speaker 2: very purposely founded it with it to be a different
Speaker 2: kind of company, to have a lot of different aspects
Speaker 2: and different different revenue streams coming in as the head
Speaker 2: of Wheelhouse Entertainment, can you kind of sketch us through
Speaker 2: what that company is and where you're finding the biggest
Speaker 2: opportunities at this time.
Speaker 3: So, Wheelhouse Entertainment is comprised of seven different labels and
Speaker 3: those include Butternoud, the lifestyle label, Spoke, which is character driven,
Speaker 3: wheel House Studios run by Glenn Hugle, who's also our
Speaker 3: chief creative officer, who is our big global format genius.
Speaker 3: Twist is our newest label that is led by Jane
Speaker 3: Latman who is a Discovery ID, and then HGTV and
Speaker 3: Food Network. We have a new venture, wheel House Sports.
Speaker 3: So we really cover all of the unscripted genres and
Speaker 3: we think of ourselves as the Avengers, so we've got
Speaker 3: specialists in all of those subgenres and then they share resources.
Speaker 3: Our digital teams support all of those labels. So for example,
Speaker 3: Jane Latman just launched a show on Discovery I D
Speaker 3: and then that became a podcast that we're now announcing,
Speaker 3: And so those digital teams are really charged with building
Speaker 3: out the content from a vertical standpoint. But then also
Speaker 3: things like our legal and our production management team is centralized.
Speaker 3: So the idea is that the labels all are quite specific,
Speaker 3: and they're scrappy and really development focused, and when they
Speaker 3: get series up and running, they plug into our centralized machine.
Speaker 3: And our centralized machine is also quite scrappy because we
Speaker 3: find every project is bespoke and needs a specialty team.
Speaker 3: We've got one project, for example, that has a live
Speaker 3: finale and so bring in that the live specialists is
Speaker 3: something that we do to fortify the teams. So it
Speaker 3: is it's very broad and I would say our current
Speaker 3: mission is to really broaden out what kinds of screens
Speaker 3: and where our audiences are consuming our content. So we
Speaker 3: work with Netflix and Hulu and cable and streamers, but
Speaker 3: also going straight to YouTube. So we have a partnership
Speaker 3: with and Edward from the NBA and we're creating his
Speaker 3: series Year five, which is straight to YouTube. We have
Speaker 3: another show in the works which has not been announced yet,
Speaker 3: but it is has a cable play, a streaming play,
Speaker 3: and experiential, so lots of different tentacles. I do think
Speaker 3: in general there's a bigger flexibility now than there was
Speaker 3: a year ago. I see a bigger flexibility in Warner,
Speaker 3: for example, now than when I was there three years ago.
Speaker 3: So I think that door is opening.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from
Speaker 1: Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney White. And we're back with more
Speaker 1: from our conversation with Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney Way.
Speaker 2: Going straight to YouTube? Is that a programmatic strategy? And
Speaker 2: can you make it work? Is it viable to put
Speaker 2: something on YouTube? And you know, the can the programmatic
Speaker 2: alan sustain you? Is a success?
Speaker 3: I would say that economics need to start with a
Speaker 3: concept that's really efficient. So and when we're asking ourselves, okay,
Speaker 3: is this a TV show? Is this so the economics
Speaker 3: of scale, it has to start there. So it has
Speaker 3: to be something that we can make for less and
Speaker 3: not that it's lesser quality, but just the nature of
Speaker 3: that show. So in year five, for example, we've got
Speaker 3: it's very verite and its cameras embedded with an Edwards
Speaker 3: in behind the scenes of his NBA career. I just
Speaker 3: had a meeting this morning with a chef who is
Speaker 3: a well known name who wants to create something at
Speaker 3: their house, very simple cooking content, and we think that
Speaker 3: YouTube is the place for that, and then we're finding
Speaker 3: success with bringing brands on board. To launch on YouTube
Speaker 3: with an unknown talent from the ground up is really tricky,
Speaker 3: so we look for a head start in terms of
Speaker 3: the talent that we're partnering with, having a robust following
Speaker 3: on their own brand relationships, and an efficient model. So
Speaker 3: when those things line up, it can make sense for us.
Speaker 2: The largest streamers got into unscripted after really going big
Speaker 2: unscripted shows. How do you think that's impacted the overall
Speaker 2: unscripted market in terms of the demand.
Speaker 3: We as makers don't think of it necessarily as a
Speaker 3: cable show or streaming show because frankly, most of our
Speaker 3: shows are airing on multiple platforms, and so you're selling
Speaker 3: into to this family of broadcasters more than just one home.
Speaker 3: So in some cases it's been able to help us
Speaker 3: budgetarily because different facets of the same company, the streaming
Speaker 3: aspect and the cable aspect are sharing costs. I think
Speaker 3: what has happened is everybody is caring about, Okay, how
Speaker 3: do we get people to the next episode. The bingeability
Speaker 3: patterns that you see on streaming, I think are everywhere.
Speaker 3: So even in a standalone show, it's like, Okay, is
Speaker 3: there a foreshadow moment to the next episode or what's
Speaker 3: sticky about it? So the other reality, which is I
Speaker 3: think a harsh one for the business, is there are
Speaker 3: very few really high volume shows anymore, and so it
Speaker 3: really is about the six eight episode order that that
Speaker 3: is the norm.
Speaker 2: Whereas when you were running Food Network and we're involved
Speaker 2: with HGTV, you would order as many as forty fifty
Speaker 2: episodes at a.
Speaker 3: Time when I started in the development department at HGTV
Speaker 3: in two thousand and five, because our cost per hour
Speaker 3: were solo, we didn't do pilots. We went straight to
Speaker 3: sixty five.
Speaker 2: The long term forecast of the cable business is one of,
Speaker 2: you know, of a shrinking subscriber base. That world has
Speaker 2: been very important to Wheelhouse and to the sort of
Speaker 2: forerunners of Wheelhouse. How are you how do you see
Speaker 2: that going in the next five to ten years? Is
Speaker 2: that do you think do you think destination cable channels
Speaker 2: like you're alumni, you know, Food Network and HDTV, do
Speaker 2: you think those are going to buck the down trend
Speaker 2: maintaining a healthy audience, a healthy linear audience.
Speaker 3: I don't see the linear audience trend reversing. And I
Speaker 3: think of hg TV and Food Network just as examples
Speaker 3: as brands more than networks now, you know, and my
Speaker 3: hope is that they they their growth is really on
Speaker 3: streaming and max and being part of that offering. You know,
Speaker 3: where we see cable, there's definitely a bifurcation of the marketplace.
Speaker 3: There's the more high end event shows and more expensive shows.
Speaker 3: And if you can really create a show for cable
Speaker 3: first and foremost that is excellent and sticky and garners
Speaker 3: an audience and has made economically really efficiently, I think
Speaker 3: that's gonna still be the market. So I think the
Speaker 3: cable business, what we're finding there is, you know, the
Speaker 3: budgets are tight, but if we're able to tell the
Speaker 3: story that that we tell within a price point, there's
Speaker 3: still there's there's still business to be had there, you know.
Speaker 3: In my hope for these cable networks that I love
Speaker 3: is that they're not they don't just live on linear,
Speaker 3: but that they can really take their audience to to
Speaker 3: streaming too.
Speaker 2: Let's go to the other end, podcasts and other forms
Speaker 2: of content. Where are you finding the most opportunity there?
Speaker 3: So we're really focused there in the crime space. So
Speaker 3: we are finding that's crime. Yeah, I mean that it's
Speaker 3: it's such. It's such an important part of the podcast
Speaker 3: business in terms of genre. And when Jane Latman came
Speaker 3: on board to launch Twist, she was really passionate about
Speaker 3: being able to tell stories uh in in multiple places.
Speaker 3: So as we grow our podcast business, a lot of
Speaker 3: it falls in the crime space, and.
Speaker 2: That's largely advertising supported. It is, yes, and it sounds
Speaker 2: like there's enough there to make it worth your while.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about podcasting specifically.
Speaker 3: It is especially when you approach it vertically like we are.
Speaker 3: So it connects to a show we're making. It's you know,
Speaker 3: so that vertical business that's where we see a lot
Speaker 3: of growth is where can we take something that may
Speaker 3: start as a show but becomes an experience, becomes a podcast.
Speaker 3: So growing from that core business ip that we're creating,
Speaker 3: that's how we really focus where we're going to spend
Speaker 3: our energies and resources.
Speaker 2: Are there any other like new cutting edge formats, anything
Speaker 2: that you're seeing real potentially?
Speaker 3: Yes, we have one coming at the Door which is
Speaker 3: not yet announced, but it touches a little bit on
Speaker 3: the DNA of Alone, which from Montgomery and Will not
Speaker 3: the girl on our teams created, but takes in a
Speaker 3: completely different direction. So and it at the Helm has
Speaker 3: two really famous content creators who most of the people
Speaker 3: in the world know by name and are really surprise
Speaker 3: ending that's live and I would say, you know, for
Speaker 3: all of the talk with there's nothing new being sold
Speaker 3: and everything's a reboot. Million Dollar Secret, this show that
Speaker 3: I'm kind of teasing and not really mentioning and Got
Speaker 3: to Get Out are all internally developed by our Real
Speaker 3: House Studios team under the leadership of Glenn Hugle. So
Speaker 3: when we're finding we can bring something truly ambitious, unique
Speaker 3: and never been done before to the market, there's been
Speaker 3: a frenzy for it from the buyers and A Million
Speaker 3: Dollar Secret is doing great so far, so hopefully on
Speaker 3: the audience, and hopefully we'll have a really strong launch
Speaker 3: for Got to Get Out as well.
Speaker 2: Let me close by asking you what's the best part
Speaker 2: of your job or some of the best parts of
Speaker 2: your job that you love the most.
Speaker 3: I love being able to work with creatives who have
Speaker 3: completely different brains, and I do think our secret sauce
Speaker 3: at Wheelhouse is our collaboration. So we have people who
Speaker 3: have come up through the business, through every different angle
Speaker 3: and coming together and collaborating with people who have minds
Speaker 3: that are nothing like yours, who are completely creative. And
Speaker 3: the big part of our company's job is to come
Speaker 3: up with ideas every day. So we're doing that internally
Speaker 3: and feeding off of the creativity of each other. We're
Speaker 3: hosting events, feeding off the creative of the outside world.
Speaker 3: So that creative collaboration in that spark that happens when
Speaker 3: two people get in a room and create a new
Speaker 3: idea in the moment, which is what Wheelhouse is all about.
Speaker 3: And to me, which was so attractive about coming on board.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's just magic. It's lightning in a bottle,
Speaker 3: as they say, So that's the best part.
Speaker 2: Well, here's hoping that there's a million dollar idea just
Speaker 2: waiting to jump out at you in a few hours
Speaker 2: at your event, Courtney, thank you so much. This has
Speaker 2: been fun.
Speaker 3: Thank you, it's a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review
Speaker 1: at the podcast platform of your choice. We love to
Speaker 1: hear from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and
Speaker 1: sign up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and
Speaker 1: don't forget to tune in next week for another episode
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business.