1 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: guest is Courtney White, President of Wheelhouse Entertainment. She runs 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: the production arm of Brent Montgomery's Wheelhouse Venture, which includes TV, 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: film and digital production, brand management, and an investment arm. 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: White spent seventeen years as a top programming executive for 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: Food Network and HGTV. She joined the Wheelhouse Group in 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, when she exited her job just in 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: advance of the merger that created Warner Brothers Discovery. White 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: explains how Wheelhouse is navigating a topsy Turvey marketplace for content. 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: It's all about the quality of the idea and the 13 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: quality of the elements that are producer brings to the table. 14 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: She also explains why Wheelhouse has invested significant resources to 15 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: host networking events for creatives in New York, LA and 16 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: other cities. In a world where most pitches now take 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: place on Zoom, Wheelhouse wants to create that environment of 18 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: spontaneous chit chat that sometimes. 19 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 2: Leads to huge breakthroughs. 20 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: White gives a great example in the conversation that is 21 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: coming up right after this break, and we're back with 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: the conversation with Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney White. Courtney White, 23 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: President of Wheelhouse Entertainment, thank you so much for having 24 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: me here at the Wheelhouse House in West Hollywood. 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 3: Thank you for coming. It's a pleasure to talk with 26 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 3: you this afternoon. We are talking a few hours before 27 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: you host a Ladies launch event, a networking mixer for 28 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: all kinds of creative types producers, writers, directors, talent in 29 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: the Los Angeles area. Tell me why Wheelhouse invests in 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 3: this and what you get out of it. Well, it 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: goes back to I think the essential DNA of Wheelhouse 32 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 3: and the initial vision that Brent Montgomery, are founder and CEO, 33 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 3: launched with, and it's we're in a business that is 34 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: about collaboration, relationships, taking a plus B and making a 35 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 3: C that has never existed before. And Wheelhouse has invested 36 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: in these properties. We have the Wheelhouse here in West Hollywood, 37 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 3: one in Tribeca and New York. And while those are 38 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: workspaces and meeting spaces, they're also event spaces for people 39 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: in all different walks of our business. So creatives, people 40 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: in the finance world, talent all come together, and you know, 41 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: it reminds me of something that a lot of people 42 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: are saying post COVID. When you now pitch an idea 43 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: on Zoom, it's a very controlled half hour pitch. You 44 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: pitch the idea, then you click off, and what executives 45 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: and producers say a lot is but the real business 46 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: didn't get done in that pitch. It used to be 47 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: when you walked into the office and you walk to 48 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 3: the elevator. That's when something happened unplanned, the famous walk 49 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: to the elevator and so many shows we're birth that way. 50 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: And so this is about. 51 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: Bringing people together who might not otherwise intermingle, and it's 52 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 3: about the magic of collaboration. We all have a lot 53 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: of planned meetings, we all have a lot of very 54 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: strategic let's meet this person. This is a great group 55 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: of people who come together in these events and magic 56 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: happens and connection happens. And then with ladies who launched now, 57 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: I was the beneficiary of growing up in a corporate 58 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: environment where there was a lot of resources spent on 59 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 3: my growth, and I went to events at Wicked Women 60 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 3: in Cable Television and those kinds of events, and it 61 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 3: really helped groom me as an executive. And I did 62 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: see coming out of COVID there was either a cutback 63 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: on companies supplying those resources or cutback on especially young 64 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 3: women coming into the office. I learned how to do 65 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 3: my job by watching my mentor, Kathleen do her job, 66 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: and so I really think that that exposure and that 67 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 3: networking was critical to my career. And we have the 68 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 3: event spaces, we have events teams, and so to do 69 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: one that was a female focused series seemed to really 70 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: be something that I was passionate about and something that 71 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: Wheelhouse was just turnkey made to do. 72 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you certainly have quite the setting here. It 73 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 2: is a it is a warm, you know, cozy ish 74 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: but absolutely gorgeous house, and you fill it with lots 75 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: of you know, it just it's an inviting setting for absolutely, 76 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 2: for sure. Isn't you raise something interesting? Certainly? I can 77 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: definitely remember, you know, organizations, event and events and organizations 78 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: built around, particularly around the development and nurturing of women 79 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: in cable. And I think I would chalk a lot 80 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: of that up to the fact that cable as a 81 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 2: nascent industry, you know, going back to the late seventies 82 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: and early eighties. There were there were the k Koppleowitz's, 83 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: there were the Geraldine Leiborns. Was a place for a 84 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 2: lot of women who might have been banging their heads 85 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: on the or to get to get hired by ABC, 86 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: NBC and CBS, basically the only game in town at 87 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: that time. But here was this new business. Abby Raven 88 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: famously at A and E Networks, started as a secretary 89 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: and left thirty five ish years later as chairman and CEO. 90 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 2: Doesn't get better than that. From that experience, what did 91 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: you find were really beneficial? Like, what were the networking 92 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: events that really helped you go to the next level, 93 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: or the or the role modeling experiences that really impacted you. 94 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 3: I remember distinctly this one Wicked leadership session. It was 95 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 3: probably a two or three day off site, so it 96 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: was an intensive and it was about finding your management style. 97 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 3: And these were those of us who were participants. You know, 98 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: we were kind of mid level, We had probably just 99 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: started managing one or two people. We were at that 100 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 3: point of our career. 101 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 4: The sweet spot for a nurturing I felt, so yeah, 102 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 4: and so you you kind of understand stood the importance 103 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: of managing people well because you had started to do 104 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 4: it and you realized how difficult it is and what 105 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 4: a commitment it is to do it well. 106 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 3: So it was that perfect time for that training. And 107 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: there were all different styles that we talked about, but 108 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: there was this one. It was like the ultimate quadrant 109 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: that you could you could enter into, which is how 110 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: can you be like lean into female attributes to not 111 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 3: try to just blend in with men, but really bring 112 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: the female attributes to the table and use them in 113 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: an empowered way, so not try to blend in with 114 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 3: all of the male suits, but stand out, be confident 115 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: in standing that out. And that that was sort of 116 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: the ultimate, like the ultimate style to aspire to. And 117 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: so I remember that and so like here today at Wheelhouse, 118 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: you know, it's the place is covered in pink flowers. 119 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: You know, like we're leaning into that that feminine power. 120 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: How do you curate the invite list? 121 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 3: So it's a mix. So we at Wheelhouse always have 122 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 3: dozens and dozens of partnerships going on, and it's producers, 123 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: broadcast partners, talent, other production companies. So the the list 124 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: always starts with our current partners and then we invite 125 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: them to then to bring people on their teams, and 126 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 3: it's very purposefully not just made for senior level executives. 127 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: So again, this mission is really to fill in what 128 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: the voids are with people not necessarily being in the 129 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 3: office all the time, not necessarily having big events that 130 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: are sponsored by their organizations. So we have people who 131 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: are in the first year of their career, we have 132 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: people who are really senior and so at every event, 133 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 3: and we've done series in both New York and LA 134 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 3: we do a newsletter and get everybody connected after the fact, 135 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: and then we always get a swell of people who say, 136 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: can this person on my team come? Or I just 137 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 3: met this person, So it grows really fast. 138 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: I'm joking, but does Wheelhouse have like a first look 139 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: on any ideas that come out of it? Actually, I'm 140 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: only half joking. 141 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: It doesn't. So we feel proud for the connections that 142 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 3: come here. We you get looped into a lot of 143 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: those kind of connections and partnerships. We at Wheelhouse are 144 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: well represented here, so we've got a lot of our 145 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: labels and teams here. So if something happens that we're 146 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: not a part of and a story is founded here, 147 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 3: we still consider that a win, and frankly, at this 148 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 3: point in the industry, you know, any wind for the 149 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: business is a win for us. 150 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: All. It's been more than a few years since Brent 151 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: Montgomery founded Wheelhouse and he you know, I remember he 152 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: very purposely founded it with it to be a different 153 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: kind of company, to have a lot of different aspects 154 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 2: and different different revenue streams coming in as the head 155 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: of Wheelhouse Entertainment, can you kind of sketch us through 156 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 2: what that company is and where you're finding the biggest 157 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: opportunities at this time. 158 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 3: So, Wheelhouse Entertainment is comprised of seven different labels and 159 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: those include Butternoud, the lifestyle label, Spoke, which is character driven, 160 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 3: wheel House Studios run by Glenn Hugle, who's also our 161 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: chief creative officer, who is our big global format genius. 162 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 3: Twist is our newest label that is led by Jane 163 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 3: Latman who is a Discovery ID, and then HGTV and 164 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: Food Network. We have a new venture, wheel House Sports. 165 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 3: So we really cover all of the unscripted genres and 166 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 3: we think of ourselves as the Avengers, so we've got 167 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 3: specialists in all of those subgenres and then they share resources. 168 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 3: Our digital teams support all of those labels. So for example, 169 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 3: Jane Latman just launched a show on Discovery I D 170 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 3: and then that became a podcast that we're now announcing, 171 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: And so those digital teams are really charged with building 172 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: out the content from a vertical standpoint. But then also 173 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: things like our legal and our production management team is centralized. 174 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: So the idea is that the labels all are quite specific, 175 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 3: and they're scrappy and really development focused, and when they 176 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: get series up and running, they plug into our centralized machine. 177 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: And our centralized machine is also quite scrappy because we 178 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 3: find every project is bespoke and needs a specialty team. 179 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 3: We've got one project, for example, that has a live 180 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 3: finale and so bring in that the live specialists is 181 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: something that we do to fortify the teams. So it 182 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: is it's very broad and I would say our current 183 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 3: mission is to really broaden out what kinds of screens 184 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 3: and where our audiences are consuming our content. So we 185 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 3: work with Netflix and Hulu and cable and streamers, but 186 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: also going straight to YouTube. So we have a partnership 187 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 3: with and Edward from the NBA and we're creating his 188 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 3: series Year five, which is straight to YouTube. We have 189 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: another show in the works which has not been announced yet, 190 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 3: but it is has a cable play, a streaming play, 191 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 3: and experiential, so lots of different tentacles. I do think 192 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: in general there's a bigger flexibility now than there was 193 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: a year ago. I see a bigger flexibility in Warner, 194 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 3: for example, now than when I was there three years ago. 195 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 3: So I think that door is opening. 196 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from 197 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney White. And we're back with more 198 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: from our conversation with Wheelhouse Entertainment President Courtney Way. 199 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: Going straight to YouTube? Is that a programmatic strategy? And 200 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 2: can you make it work? Is it viable to put 201 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: something on YouTube? And you know, the can the programmatic 202 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: alan sustain you? Is a success? 203 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: I would say that economics need to start with a 204 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: concept that's really efficient. So and when we're asking ourselves, okay, 205 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: is this a TV show? Is this so the economics 206 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 3: of scale, it has to start there. So it has 207 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: to be something that we can make for less and 208 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: not that it's lesser quality, but just the nature of 209 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 3: that show. So in year five, for example, we've got 210 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 3: it's very verite and its cameras embedded with an Edwards 211 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 3: in behind the scenes of his NBA career. I just 212 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 3: had a meeting this morning with a chef who is 213 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: a well known name who wants to create something at 214 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: their house, very simple cooking content, and we think that 215 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 3: YouTube is the place for that, and then we're finding 216 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: success with bringing brands on board. To launch on YouTube 217 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: with an unknown talent from the ground up is really tricky, 218 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: so we look for a head start in terms of 219 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 3: the talent that we're partnering with, having a robust following 220 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 3: on their own brand relationships, and an efficient model. So 221 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: when those things line up, it can make sense for us. 222 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: The largest streamers got into unscripted after really going big 223 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: unscripted shows. How do you think that's impacted the overall 224 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: unscripted market in terms of the demand. 225 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 3: We as makers don't think of it necessarily as a 226 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: cable show or streaming show because frankly, most of our 227 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: shows are airing on multiple platforms, and so you're selling 228 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: into to this family of broadcasters more than just one home. 229 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 3: So in some cases it's been able to help us 230 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: budgetarily because different facets of the same company, the streaming 231 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 3: aspect and the cable aspect are sharing costs. I think 232 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 3: what has happened is everybody is caring about, Okay, how 233 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 3: do we get people to the next episode. The bingeability 234 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 3: patterns that you see on streaming, I think are everywhere. 235 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 3: So even in a standalone show, it's like, Okay, is 236 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 3: there a foreshadow moment to the next episode or what's 237 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 3: sticky about it? So the other reality, which is I 238 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 3: think a harsh one for the business, is there are 239 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 3: very few really high volume shows anymore, and so it 240 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: really is about the six eight episode order that that 241 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: is the norm. 242 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 2: Whereas when you were running Food Network and we're involved 243 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: with HGTV, you would order as many as forty fifty 244 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: episodes at a. 245 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 3: Time when I started in the development department at HGTV 246 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 3: in two thousand and five, because our cost per hour 247 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: were solo, we didn't do pilots. We went straight to 248 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 3: sixty five. 249 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: The long term forecast of the cable business is one of, 250 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 2: you know, of a shrinking subscriber base. That world has 251 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: been very important to Wheelhouse and to the sort of 252 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 2: forerunners of Wheelhouse. How are you how do you see 253 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: that going in the next five to ten years? Is 254 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: that do you think do you think destination cable channels 255 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 2: like you're alumni, you know, Food Network and HDTV, do 256 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: you think those are going to buck the down trend 257 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 2: maintaining a healthy audience, a healthy linear audience. 258 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 3: I don't see the linear audience trend reversing. And I 259 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 3: think of hg TV and Food Network just as examples 260 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: as brands more than networks now, you know, and my 261 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 3: hope is that they they their growth is really on 262 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 3: streaming and max and being part of that offering. You know, 263 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: where we see cable, there's definitely a bifurcation of the marketplace. 264 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: There's the more high end event shows and more expensive shows. 265 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 3: And if you can really create a show for cable 266 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: first and foremost that is excellent and sticky and garners 267 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 3: an audience and has made economically really efficiently, I think 268 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 3: that's gonna still be the market. So I think the 269 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: cable business, what we're finding there is, you know, the 270 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 3: budgets are tight, but if we're able to tell the 271 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: story that that we tell within a price point, there's 272 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: still there's there's still business to be had there, you know. 273 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 3: In my hope for these cable networks that I love 274 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 3: is that they're not they don't just live on linear, 275 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: but that they can really take their audience to to 276 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 3: streaming too. 277 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 2: Let's go to the other end, podcasts and other forms 278 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: of content. Where are you finding the most opportunity there? 279 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: So we're really focused there in the crime space. So 280 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 3: we are finding that's crime. Yeah, I mean that it's 281 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: it's such. It's such an important part of the podcast 282 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 3: business in terms of genre. And when Jane Latman came 283 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 3: on board to launch Twist, she was really passionate about 284 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: being able to tell stories uh in in multiple places. 285 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 3: So as we grow our podcast business, a lot of 286 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: it falls in the crime space, and. 287 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: That's largely advertising supported. It is, yes, and it sounds 288 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: like there's enough there to make it worth your while. 289 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: I'm talking about podcasting specifically. 290 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: It is especially when you approach it vertically like we are. 291 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 3: So it connects to a show we're making. It's you know, 292 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 3: so that vertical business that's where we see a lot 293 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 3: of growth is where can we take something that may 294 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 3: start as a show but becomes an experience, becomes a podcast. 295 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: So growing from that core business ip that we're creating, 296 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 3: that's how we really focus where we're going to spend 297 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 3: our energies and resources. 298 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 2: Are there any other like new cutting edge formats, anything 299 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: that you're seeing real potentially? 300 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 3: Yes, we have one coming at the Door which is 301 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 3: not yet announced, but it touches a little bit on 302 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: the DNA of Alone, which from Montgomery and Will not 303 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 3: the girl on our teams created, but takes in a 304 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: completely different direction. So and it at the Helm has 305 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 3: two really famous content creators who most of the people 306 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 3: in the world know by name and are really surprise 307 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: ending that's live and I would say, you know, for 308 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 3: all of the talk with there's nothing new being sold 309 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: and everything's a reboot. Million Dollar Secret, this show that 310 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 3: I'm kind of teasing and not really mentioning and Got 311 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 3: to Get Out are all internally developed by our Real 312 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 3: House Studios team under the leadership of Glenn Hugle. So 313 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 3: when we're finding we can bring something truly ambitious, unique 314 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 3: and never been done before to the market, there's been 315 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 3: a frenzy for it from the buyers and A Million 316 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 3: Dollar Secret is doing great so far, so hopefully on 317 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: the audience, and hopefully we'll have a really strong launch 318 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 3: for Got to Get Out as well. 319 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: Let me close by asking you what's the best part 320 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 2: of your job or some of the best parts of 321 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: your job that you love the most. 322 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 3: I love being able to work with creatives who have 323 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 3: completely different brains, and I do think our secret sauce 324 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,479 Speaker 3: at Wheelhouse is our collaboration. So we have people who 325 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: have come up through the business, through every different angle 326 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 3: and coming together and collaborating with people who have minds 327 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 3: that are nothing like yours, who are completely creative. And 328 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 3: the big part of our company's job is to come 329 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 3: up with ideas every day. So we're doing that internally 330 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: and feeding off of the creativity of each other. We're 331 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 3: hosting events, feeding off the creative of the outside world. 332 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 3: So that creative collaboration in that spark that happens when 333 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: two people get in a room and create a new 334 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 3: idea in the moment, which is what Wheelhouse is all about. 335 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: And to me, which was so attractive about coming on board. 336 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 3: I mean, that's just magic. It's lightning in a bottle, 337 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: as they say, So that's the best part. 338 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: Well, here's hoping that there's a million dollar idea just 339 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: waiting to jump out at you in a few hours 340 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 2: at your event, Courtney, thank you so much. This has 341 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: been fun. 342 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: Thank you, it's a pleasure talking to you. 343 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 344 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: at the podcast platform of your choice. We love to 345 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: hear from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and 346 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: sign up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and 347 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: don't forget to tune in next week for another episode 348 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: of Strictly Business.