1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: discretion is advised. Mr Larson, Yes, Sir William Pepper, I'm 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: calling you from good morning to you. Good morning. How 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: are you? You're about twenty minutes We're going to Corrida again? 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: Sorry I am, yes, sir. I got a couple of 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: hearings over there this morning. Uh. I have a client 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: who has imparted some information to me and he assures 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: me that he can back up everything. He has told 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: me that quite frankly, could prove that James are already 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: did not shoot Dr King, and I think could probably 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: prove who actually did it. Yeah. I called the Union Hall. 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: I said it's a matter of life and death. I said, 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: I think these people are planning to kill Dr King. 18 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: The authorities were parade. Oh, we found a gun that 19 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: James ol Ray bought in Birmingham that killed Dr King. 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: Except it wasn't the gun that killed Dr King. James 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: Lvey was upon for the official story from My Heart 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: Radio intended for TV. The plan was to get King 23 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: to the city because they wanted it handled in memphisfore 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: Dead and in cat Hamon. And I've lived with it 25 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: so long, my sion, and they scared for me. The 26 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: Lord told me to not the word. I've been wanting 27 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: to tell it all my life. I'm Bill Claiburg, and 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: this is d MLK Tapes. I'm sitting with Bill Pepper 29 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: in his cluttered study, listening to a phone conversation that 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: Bill had recorded in I found the unlabeled cassette in 31 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: a box with others that Bill had stashed at the 32 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: King Center in Atlanta, a hundred tapes, ninety minutes each. 33 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: I was doing triage. I was about to set this 34 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: tape aside because it was just ordinary phone calls. But 35 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: then some lawyer comes on and tells Bill that he 36 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: is a client who, thirty years after the fact, can 37 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: prove that James Earl Ray did not shoot Martin Luther King, 38 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: the very thing that Pepper had been trying to prove 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: for twenty years. That, of course, it's very exciting. Uh, 40 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: it's not in the best of hell. And he had 41 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: quite frankly believed that the King family deserves to know 42 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: what actually happened. Right. Ah, he has known that great 43 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: for many years. Apparently they at one time we're imprisoned 44 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: together in Southeast Missouri when they were both young. Uh. 45 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: And I'll be quite honest with you, and you could 46 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: care less about James all right. You know he thanks 47 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: the Kings deserved to know what happened, and that's why 48 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 1: he has come forward. If you're Bill Pepper, you get 49 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: phone calls like this every once in a while. People 50 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: who know things reach out often as they approached the 51 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: end of their lives. I was fascinated by what I 52 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: heard on this tape, and Bill had agreed to sit 53 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: and listen to it with me. So that's what we're 54 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: doing in a study. And at times you can hear 55 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: the Harlem Street noise from below. So Bill, you're living 56 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: in England and you get a call from this guy, 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: attorney Larson, and you call him back and he spins 58 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: you this tale. Um, what do you think about that? 59 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: What was your initial reaction? Well, my initial reaction was 60 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: of interest. I had an open mind with respect to 61 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: witnesses potential with as is coming forward, and here was 62 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: a guy who was represented and represented himself as to 63 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: be a lawyer. Seemed to be a lawyer. So I 64 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: was interested in, uh opening that door and having a conversation. 65 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: Why would Bill Pepper say that this man on the 66 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: phone represented himself to be a lawyer. It's an odd 67 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: way to put it. The answer is because over the 68 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: years Pepper has been approached by a few people who 69 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: are not who they said they were, or otherwise offered 70 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: false information. Bill did agree that this Mr. Larson seemed 71 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: on the up and up, but there was still the 72 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: matter of the client. Was he for real? Mr? Larson 73 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: said he was. He worked for the federal government for 74 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: many years. He did considerable undercover work, a lot of 75 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: it through my understanding the U. S. Attorney's office in 76 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: County Ryan. And have you known this client, Mr Larson 77 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: for quite a period of time. I have known him 78 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: for probably seven or eight years. He has several business 79 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: operations in Tennessee and I have done work for them. 80 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: And quite honestly, it was stunned when he called and 81 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: said I need a visit with you. I had no 82 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: idea that he had the involvement that he did. I 83 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: see and have you found it to be a reliable person. 84 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: If he were to tell me that it was going 85 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: to snow on the fourth day, I would probably laugh 86 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: that I'd get a cop just in case. I'm Lustralian, 87 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: for instance. Now, because he said that he has ever 88 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: met me at any time, Telser, he did testify several 89 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: years ago an executive session of the Subcommittee on as 90 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: the Congressional Committee. Yes, yesterday he testified in executive session. 91 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: Apparently he and Mr Stokes did not hit it off immediately. 92 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: And I'm sure that will come as no great shot you. 93 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: Attorney Larson has just dropped a bomb. He said his 94 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: client had been called to testify before the House Up 95 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: Committee on Assassinations a full twenty years earlier. Not just 96 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: anybody gets called before the h s c A. An 97 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: executive session was reserved for people who had things to 98 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: say that would be kept secret for fifty years. So 99 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: who was this guy? Bill Pepper didn't know at this point. 100 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: He didn't know the guy's name. Back to the phone call. 101 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: He's a he's a white with the Southerner, Yes, sir, 102 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: he is from southeast Missouri. Now live isn't another state 103 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: that I am in contact? With him. How do you 104 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: suggest we've received as Larson. I mean, I certainly would 105 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: like in your presence to um to meet with your client. 106 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: Does he have any any concern about his own situation 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: in terms of prosecution or anything of that sort, But 108 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: not not a whole bun, because basically his knowledge came 109 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: after the fact. I mean, he is not extraordinarily concerned 110 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: about it, although he is well aware that it's possible 111 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: because of all the other things that had transpired in 112 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: this case. Uh, what he had suggested to me, and 113 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: I'll throw this out in you, he had suggested, perhaps 114 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: if there were some injuries in talking with him, everyone 115 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: meeting in Atlanta, perhaps at the Key Museum, and he 116 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: could then basically explained to the sign is what Dexter gets. Okay, 117 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: that's that's a that's the good starting point suggestion. I 118 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: think the center is probably too my profile, and I 119 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: think but I think the idea of having Dexter there 120 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: is a very good one. I'd very much like to 121 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: have you president, if that's if that's if you don't 122 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: object to it, and if that's uh, you know, I 123 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: think I think my client would prefer that also, is 124 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: it is we we meet internally outside of Tennessee. I mean, 125 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: would would Nashville be a possibility for UM? I think 126 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: Nashville would be a possibility. Yeah. Would he mind on 127 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: recording this session? I don't believe. So I'll clarify that 128 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: with him that I certainly would expect you to do that. 129 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: Quite frankly, we would like to do that. We'll give 130 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: you a company his information as arson such that it 131 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: could be um it could be produced in court if 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: he were willing to do that, or is it a 133 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: portion of it would be admissible? There would be some 134 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: that I think would be perhaps hearsay, you know. But 135 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: the circumstances I found to be somewhat chilling. Ye, And 136 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: what what troubled me, especially as I grew up down 137 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: in Memphis, right and I was in high school where 138 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: the murder occurred. Right now, I remember the cast of 139 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: characters and all of a sudden names were coming back, right. 140 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: So I based on that, I think that there's there's 141 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: something there. Listen. I do thank you very much, UM, 142 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: and please tell your client I'm I'm very grateful to 143 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: him at his late point in his life. We're coming 144 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: forward because he wish that his name not be known 145 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: to me or Dexter prior to any meeting that we uh, yes, 146 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: or he would prefer not to have that done just yet. 147 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: That's one that's fairly fine. And how your telephone lines secure? Yes, sir, 148 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: far as I know I have, well, I have your number. 149 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: You don't even need to lose that. You could just 150 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: say it's Rusty calling, okay, And but I will come 151 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: back to you fairly quickly, and I look forward to 152 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: meeting you and your client, and I'm sure Dexter will 153 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: as well. All right, sir, I thank you very much, 154 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: my pleasure, very forward to meeting you, and thank you, yes, sir. 155 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: When we were listening to this tape, neither Bill Pepper 156 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: nor I knew if the lawyer or his client were 157 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: still alive. And when Bill hung up the phone on 158 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: the original call, he didn't even know the name of 159 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: the guy, the one with this new information. But we 160 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: know it now. His name was Green, Jim Green. According 161 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: to his story, Green had led a life of crime 162 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: when he was young and spent time in prison more 163 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: than once. Then he served some years with law enforcement, 164 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: after which he opened a couple of topless bars. But 165 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: he was just twenty one when He says he was 166 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: picked or more or less told to kill James L. Ray. 167 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: According to Green, whose voice we will hear right now, 168 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: he didn't know that doctor King was to be murdered 169 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: the people and took the money. That may have been 170 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: difficult to hear, as the recording of this phone conversation 171 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: between Jim Green and Bill Pepper is of poor quality. 172 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: Jim Green said, I've been told that he, referring to 173 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: James Earl Ray, double cross some people and took their money. 174 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: Now here's the rest of that statement from the Coalst 175 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: transcript as read by a voice actor. They knew that 176 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: Ray was going to perform a robbery in Memphis. We 177 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: were going to kill him after the robbery. We don't 178 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: even know King is in town as far as we're concerned. 179 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: We're told that when he turns the corner that if 180 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: the policeman don't get him, I get him. I was 181 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: the backup shooter and the cop was late, and then 182 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: Ray turned and walked the other way where I couldn't 183 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: get him. Jim Green died about ten years ago, but 184 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: as you just heard, we have a tape of him 185 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: talking to Bill Pepper, and we will play that tape 186 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: in a bit. But Green's lawyer, Rusty Larson, the man 187 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: you heard on the phone with Bill, is very much 188 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,479 Speaker 1: alive and still practicing law in Jackson, Tennessee. We contacted 189 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: Larson and asked if he would tell us what he 190 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: knew of Jim Green and the plan to murder Ray. 191 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: We'll hear from Larson after the break. Attorney Larson, Yes, sir, 192 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: Bill Claibor here, Yes, sir. How are you Bill? Good? Good? 193 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: How you doing? I'm doing good? Did did our engineer arrive? 194 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: He has gotten here and he has more equipment than 195 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: you say, Grace over. I'm at home in upstate New York. 196 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: An attorney Russell Larson, better known as Rusty Larson, is 197 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: sitting in his law office in Jackson, Tennessee, where he 198 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: has practiced law for forty years. Larson grew up in 199 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: South Memphis in an area called fittingly white Haven, and 200 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: he was a junior in high school when King was shot. 201 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: I asked him if he was aware of the desperate, 202 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: deepening divide in his city. Of course, I was aware 203 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: of the sanitation strike because that had gone on for 204 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: quite a while. My dad, being in the restaurant business, 205 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: was adversely affected by that. But you know, it was 206 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: just business as usual basically in my world. But business 207 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: as usual was about to change in Memphis when Dr 208 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 1: King was shot. The National Guard troops came in and 209 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: downtown Memphis got shut down, and he got a little 210 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: scary at that point, the first time I had ever 211 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: been around or have much exposure to armed military people 212 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: with real life guns. Kind of a coming of age time. 213 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Larson went to college and got his law degree at 214 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: Memphis State. Upon graduation, he landed a job with an 215 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: appellate judge in Jackson, just an hour and a half 216 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: of the road from Memphis. A few years later, he 217 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: went out on his own as a criminal defense attorney, 218 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: which is the work he has done it for since. 219 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: I asked Larson how this led to Jim Green. Mr 220 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: Green opened a adult entertainment establishment here called the Doll House, 221 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: and needless to say, when the topless bar came to 222 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: town with scantily clad women dancing, it upset a lot 223 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: of folks and the police department tried to shut them down. 224 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: I was hired by Jim Green two represent them, and 225 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: we danced off to Federal Court and all of a 226 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: sudden we had a federal judge who understood that dancing 227 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: was really speech and it was protected by the Constitution. 228 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: And so that's how I got involved with Jim and 229 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: some of his operations. He often would come to town 230 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: and would dropped in the office and we would talk 231 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: for hours of a time, because Jim had plenty of 232 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: stories to tell, what kind of stories, scary ones about 233 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: his life of crime and then his life in law enforcement, 234 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: things that Green had seen or done, and enough that 235 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: Green himself began to write them down for a book 236 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: he hoped to publish. The unfinished manuscript was titled Blood 237 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: and Dishonor, and it was his account of his life 238 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: on both sides of the law and his role in 239 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: the murder of Martin Luther King. The book had been 240 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: kept in a safe by Attorney Larson, who was kind 241 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: enough to copy its pages and send them to me 242 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: with an associate reading for us. The book begins this way. 243 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: I was raised in Carruthersville, Missouri, on the west bank 244 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: of the Mississippi. The town had bars, whorehouses, drugs, gambling, 245 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: and about one killing a week. If you wanted anything, 246 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: all you had to do was ask. But even in 247 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: a town like that. People live normal lives. I played 248 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: baseball and football. You might ask, how could I be 249 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: that normal and end up doing all the things I did. 250 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: It was easy look at what was around me. As 251 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: he tells it, Jim Green was fourteen the first time 252 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: he was put in jail. He had driven someone's truck 253 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: from Tennessee to Florida to see a girl. When the 254 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: cops pulled him over, they found a kid without a license. 255 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: While they were still in high school, Jim and his 256 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: friend Butch started running moonshine from Missouri into Tennessee and Alabama. 257 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: They made good money. They also got busted a bunch 258 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: of times. According to Attorney Larson, Jim was very young 259 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: when when all this was taking place. I know that 260 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: his career started when he was was pretty young, maybe 261 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: even as a juvenile, and then he graduated to adult facilities. 262 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: He had spent some time behind bars, and he knew 263 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: the routines, and his personality was such that he had 264 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: a great way of asking questions and getting people to 265 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: talk to him. Inside the walls, you had punks, snitches, 266 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: the ones who ran the drugs, the money, and finally 267 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: the guards that thought they were cons This is where 268 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: my education really began, or should I say where I 269 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: found out what the world was really made of. Prison 270 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: is a world with rules of its own. You either 271 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: abide by the con rules or die. That's how simple 272 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 1: it is. One of the people Green met in prison 273 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: was a fellow named James Earle Ray. Green remembers him 274 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: as a quiet guy who worked in the kitchen. That 275 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: was about it. They weren't friends or anything, but Green 276 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: thinks that is Knowing Ray, however, casually, was a reason 277 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: he was picked for the job of killing him, because 278 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: Green knew what Ray looked like. I asked Lawson how 279 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: we found out about Green's involvement in the killing of King. 280 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: I got the impression that Jim just needed to talk 281 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: to somebody who didn't know a lot of the people 282 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: that Jim knew. You know, sometimes you just need to 283 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: talk to somebody and and if it's somebody that has 284 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: a confidentiality situation, that your semi safe and talking and 285 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: getting things off your chest. And I got the impression 286 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: that there were a lot of ghosts that Jim was 287 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: dealing with. When you reached out to Larson, Green was 288 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: out of place in his life where he no longer 289 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: wanted to carry his and everybody else's secrets about the 290 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: murder of Dr. King, and both he and Attorney Larson 291 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: thought that Bill Pepper was the person to talk to, 292 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: so they each talked to Pepper on the phone and 293 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: then made plans to meet with him and Dexter King 294 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: in Memphis. Can you remember anything of what was said 295 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: when Jim met Dexter King. Nothing as far as great substance. 296 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: Mainly it was Dexter King trying to ascertain who was involved, 297 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: what was it all about. Although Larson was representing Green 298 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: and had grown up in Memphis, he really wasn't up 299 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: on the complexities of the murder of Martin Luther King. 300 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: So Larson was hearing a lot of stuff he hadn't 301 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: heard before. It really kind of opened my eyes that 302 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: there was more of a conspiracy than I thought there was. 303 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: I think my idea probably developed fairly late in the game. 304 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: The more I was involved in criminal defense work and 305 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: got to know some of the cast of characters in 306 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: Memphis and the Memphis Police Department, I got the feeling 307 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: that there were some what we call them suits, the 308 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: investigators who were involved in either the timing, the surveillance, 309 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: maybe the planning. I had prepped for my interview with 310 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: Rusty Larson by reading Jim Green's manuscript Blood and Dishonor, 311 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: And since Green was no longer alive, I thought Larson 312 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: and I might enter his story by way of the 313 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: book and talk about the intrigue or the characters like 314 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: Buster or j Bird, for whom crime was simply a 315 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: way of life. I had some paragraphs that I intended 316 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: to read to Larsen as springboards into Jim Green's story. 317 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: There was one character in particular who had a powerful 318 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: position in the Missouri crime mosaic. Yet to Jim Green, 319 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: he seemed different from the others. His name was Paul, 320 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,239 Speaker 1: and one evening, Jim and Paul were alone together at 321 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: the back of the pool hall. This is how Green 322 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: describes the situation in his book. Paul reached inside his 323 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: jacket and pulled out what looked like a wallet. He 324 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: flipped it open, and all I could see were the 325 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: letters FBI. Paul smiled at me and said, don't worry. 326 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: I'm your friend, not your enemy. He said. Everybody had 327 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: to make a little money, even cops. I knew we 328 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 1: had worked with the local cops before, but I had 329 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: never known of the FEDS being crooked. When I left, 330 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: I drove straight back to Carruthersville. I told j Bird 331 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: what had happened, and he started laughing and said, I 332 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: bet you shape your pants. I asked him what he 333 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: would do if he saw that kind of badge. Jay 334 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 1: Bird said not to worry, because he needed us and 335 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: we needed him, and that I was never to say 336 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: anything about his badge where we would all end up 337 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: being dead. I was eager to talk to Attorney Larson 338 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: about this guy Paul and Paul's boss, who he called Rochi. 339 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: I thought the book would be our springboard, but I 340 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: would be disappointed because although Larson had read the manuscript, 341 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: it had been over twenty years ago and little of 342 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: it was still in his head. But there remains something 343 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: important that I wanted from Larson, because if Jim Green's 344 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: story is true, it points straight back to those who 345 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: planned the murder of Dr. King. And in our phone conversation, 346 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: I had found Rusty Larson to be smart, funny, and perceptive, 347 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: and I wanted to apply those qualities to the question 348 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: at hand. What did he think of Jim Green? Was 349 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: Green the sort of man who would have gone to 350 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: enormous trouble to invent an elaborate, self incriminating story. Why 351 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: would he want to for attention? Larson didn't think so. 352 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: He was not the type that needed the attention. He 353 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: made a good bit of money in his various topless 354 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: operations and kind of enjoyed that type of life. So 355 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: I never had the impression that he would have to 356 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: make up some story just too elevate himself and appear 357 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: to be something that he wasn't. If anything, Jim just 358 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: really didn't give a flip. He was who he was 359 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: and if you like him, great, and if you don't 360 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: like him, go screw yourself. Yeah, it was real simple 361 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: with him. How simple. We'll let Jim Green tell you himself. 362 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: I would run we come. This is Jim Green talking 363 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: on the phone in late to Bill Pepper in London. Again, 364 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: because of the tape's quality, this statement will be read 365 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: by a voice actor. I was running moonshine and stolen 366 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: cars with the mob out of St. Louis. I was 367 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: working for Buster Workman Jim Michaels and then boys out 368 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: of Gaslight. We ran money from the vending machine companies 369 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: back and forth. Because my cousin was an owner of 370 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: one of the companies, and I got tied in through them, 371 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: and that's how I met the agent. I was told 372 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: to go to this place in St. Louis with Butch 373 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: and meet this guy. He told me we work hand 374 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: in hand. They help us, we help them. Back in 375 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: the sixties, that was the way of life. The agent 376 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: Jim Green speaks about is a guy named Paul, who 377 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: had FBI identification. But we're closely with organized crime in 378 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: the southern US. They help us, we help them, is 379 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: what he was told. From this point forward, we're going 380 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: to forego the voice actor and play the original tape. 381 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: We highly recommend wearing headphones. While some of it may 382 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: be difficult to hear, we feel it's important that you 383 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: hear Jim Green make the statements himself. According to Green, 384 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: Paul was the one who recruited him for the upcoming 385 00:24:45,480 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: job in Memphis. Our crowd they robbery as members. We 386 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: were looking. He had to the robbery. This is what 387 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: we're doing. That's what you were trying. And I'm told 388 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: that the mender of polices go back and up. We 389 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: only no key and then right as far as we're concerned, right, 390 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: we're told that when Ray turned this corner, then it's 391 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: the police, and don't get him when he turns upoint 392 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: when he draw his driving. So when he's walking, I 393 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: was a bag of pater in case and the cop 394 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: was k and then Ray turned and walked the other 395 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: way where I couldn't get what I would have done 396 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: it or night, I don't know. I say the end. 397 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 1: As a kid, I would have been to see. There's 398 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: one other thing my lower my son told me. I 399 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: was like, right, he didn't he didn't mention that that. 400 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: I don't know when Ray will remember me, because I 401 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: was a very young kid in his army. I was 402 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: turned his army and I wasn't order taken and Ray 403 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: had a free to run in the bread and you 404 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: know it adventicated stuff. And then when they had burned 405 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: me back through them, I made him again. It made me. 406 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: We're making before okay now when they and that's one thing, 407 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: and I think God would pick ncud when they held 408 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: me in figure and then you remember him. I didn't 409 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: remember me. And then when they told me he ran 410 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: with the club board. Then I've been all in because 411 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: that love and found these very cosys from ringing beginning. 412 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: Attorney Rusty Larson had said in his call to Pepper 413 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: that Green had testified before the House Select Committee. So 414 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: Pepper asked Green about that. I can divide under exective 415 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: in that, but my catrimonial nobody would allowed that room 416 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: when I did everybody, but I only came home, you know, 417 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: I don't they can play to him. And I was 418 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: already gray, and I knew the Ray didn't do the 419 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: killing because I was looking at him with the D 420 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: and uh so my dad's funny was never known and 421 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: never will be known until two thousand and twenty nine. Okay, so, 422 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: but did still your name appear anywhere in the well? 423 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: I was repeating, You're spinning till your name appear anywhere 424 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: in any of the volumes the report. I don't know 425 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: they'd let me to warri it, you know, because they 426 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: had a man and a woman inventityator come to me 427 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: and men. Right. I was working on an undercover time 428 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: at the time, right, and uh, they asked me would 429 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: not come out to night. Ain't no way I'll do. 430 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: I don't be fay no way, I thought the Brontu right, 431 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: and uh, he said, well, we've got a way to 432 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: put me in. What they called me because they could 433 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: have said head that way and only uh, the propagator 434 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: and the committee will be the only people. They again, 435 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: and and then I drink. Then I got a visit 436 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: from the federal ward before I win, and they told 437 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: me that I think you can talk about They didn't 438 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,959 Speaker 1: they want round God. I think it was more warning 439 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: than anything. The way we worked. Well, I've been involved 440 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: several other cases that I didn't think was right when 441 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: you worked for the government. You're John, you do you 442 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: forget about? It? Was Walter Fauntroy President at your testimony. 443 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: The only one I remember Walter is who will yes, 444 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: well Stokes is we think Stokes was pretty much involved. 445 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: He would invoud a, y don't me? And I looked 446 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: at anotherment though not only had to me, you know. 447 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: Pepper then questioned Green about the day the king was killed. 448 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: Where the one that meant when the eight and out 449 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: on Lamar that night before and took the dry runs 450 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: down and we're related with me. We left them up 451 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: down to enter send up together about three o'clock. Were 452 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: you and Jim's grilled all that day? Me and Budge 453 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: was at one time? Yeah, did you did you? We 454 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: introduced to Lloyd Jowers at any point and back then 455 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: the first time, I hadn't been down or in that area. No, 456 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't know he would be in 457 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: the group. I was there anyway. But your specific role 458 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: in this whole operation was pe gave little Rudel, Right, 459 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: that's what your role was, trying my own him from 460 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: three thirty three fifteen, you know, you know, holding up 461 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: where I was there, I could see everything. I couldn't 462 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: see all right, but I could see in the bar, 463 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: I could see you drink down the drink. Okay, you 464 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: can remember when you can describe where you were in 465 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: your location. Oh yeah. Green said he would do that 466 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: when they met. But we'll do it here by reading 467 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: from Blood and Dishonor Green's unpublished account of his life 468 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: and his role in the murder of Martin Luther King. 469 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: We arrived in Memphis at two pm on the third 470 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: of April and got a room. Then we went out 471 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: and visited a massage parlor. South Haven was full of parlors, 472 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: and we knew a few of the owners, most of 473 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: them women. Butch and I got up the next morning 474 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: and left the motel around noon. Then we went downtown 475 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: and stopped in a bar by the old King Cotton 476 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: Hotel while we sat there, but punched me and said, 477 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: look at this. There was James Earl Ray coming in 478 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: the door. I asked what if we should do him now? 479 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: And he said no. We were told he couldn't die 480 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: until after six pm. And James Earl Ray's account of 481 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: his coming into Memphis, given to Attorney Louis Garrison, he 482 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: speaks of entering a bar a few blocks south of 483 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: Jim's Grill, ordering a beer and asking for directions. But 484 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: he noticed this two guys who keep looking at him. 485 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: This is what he said. I got a south Main 486 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: strate and I went in the bar on the right side, 487 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: and I think about this an rest and he said 488 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: those rooms she was standing mark, and she said that 489 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: it was narrow street and left the block. Or so well. 490 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: I was in indes in are. I thought maybe it 491 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: were one apparently watched mate. Now, returning to Green's written 492 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: account of that afternoon, at about three, Boots dropped me 493 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: off and I climbed the ladder to the roof and 494 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: posted myself with a clear view of four to two Mate. 495 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: I had been told to climb the Loomis building, but 496 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: I changed that to a building about four doors down 497 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: because the loomis was right in front of the fire 498 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 1: station and I thought it was too wide open. At 499 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: about three thirty, Ray came out and walked up made 500 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: in half a block. I lost sight of him. This 501 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: would carst on would Ray's verified trip to the sporting 502 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: goods store to buy as he was told to do, 503 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: a pair of binoculars. From his perch on the roof, 504 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: Green saw Ray come and go a couple of times 505 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: as six o'clock approached. Then at five, I saw Ray 506 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: emerge from the rooming house and get into the Mustang. 507 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: Ray started his car and pulled away, and I waited 508 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: for him to turn his car south, but he didn't. 509 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: I thought he would circle the block and park and walk. 510 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: This is what I was told, so I waited. Then 511 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: some minutes later I hear a sound like a backfire. 512 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: Then I heard hollering and sirens starting to go off. 513 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: As this was going on, I saw a butch come 514 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: from the side of the building, and then Paul emerged 515 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: from the rooming house and I saw Paul lay down 516 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: what looked like a coat on the sidewalk. Then they 517 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: got into the car, made a U turn and came 518 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: toward me. I hurried down, and as soon as I 519 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: reached the car, pushed asked if I got Ray. I 520 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: said no. His eyes lit up and he said, damn, 521 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: we're in trouble. As Green explains in his book, the 522 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: trouble they were in had to do with the fact 523 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: that Ray was not intending to rob anybody, as they 524 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: were told, but he was there to take the blame 525 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: for the murder of King, and that's why he needed 526 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: to be dead. The whole idea they had they had 527 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: to rent room and he would prof sent it me 528 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: or that police officer head guilty, No, wefriend me you 529 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: got again and Black that the old man the police 530 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: and they Bill Pepper ended his conversation with Jim Green 531 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: by asking him why he had decided to come forward. 532 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: Maybe I want to clear my card. I didn't have 533 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: nothing to do with you. Again, I didn't know even 534 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: but I was on the under side and I put 535 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: it together. Then when I started real line and everybody, 536 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: you know, I would not getting body here and not 537 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: get my mond went on with my life. H So 538 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: that was it. And sometime after this phone call, Bill 539 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: Pepper arranged for a meeting in a room at the 540 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: Memphis Airport with Jim Green, Rusty Larson, and Dexter King. 541 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: But I could not find a tape of that meeting, 542 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: either in Bill Pepper's collections or down at the King Center. 543 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: So as far as the voice of Jim Green telling 544 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: a story, we only have this short phone conversation with 545 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: Pepper in London. I felt proud of myself for finding 546 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: this tape, but when we had finished listening to it, 547 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: I was surprised to learn that after his meeting with 548 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,320 Speaker 1: Jim Green and Extra King in Memphis, Bill Pepper concluded 549 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: that Jim Green's story was fabricated, that Green had been 550 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: sent forward with a phony story for some reason. I 551 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: believe Green was largely a disinformation agent, and I think 552 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: we saw him that way, and I thought it didn't 553 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: make sense of the total picture that eventually I've covered. 554 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: The only thing that gave Mr Larson any credible ability 555 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: was the fact that he had a client he was 556 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: willing to put before us, who was going to tell 557 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: us a story about how his job was a designation 558 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: that killed James or Ray, and that seemed to be 559 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: par for the course. I mean, Patsy's are routinely disposed 560 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: of because they may inadvertently or or or actually learn 561 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: facts that could be embarrassing to the people involved with 562 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: the conspiracy. But that was about the only thing that 563 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: Pepper found in Green's favor. This guy is creating a 564 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: scenario that is supposed to give credibility to a story 565 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: that he has, but he falls short in so many areas. 566 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,919 Speaker 1: And he, for example, could not have been watching Ray. 567 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: He says at one point that he he saw Ray 568 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: at the time of the shooting. It impossible. He couldn't 569 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: have couldn't have done that. Uh Ray was up at 570 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: the gas station with the time the shooting took place, 571 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: not anywhere else. Pepper also questioned whether Green had met 572 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: Ray in prison and whether he had really testified before 573 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: the House collect Committee in both of those stories had 574 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: run true to me. I then asked what kind of 575 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: damage you could have done if Green had been let 576 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: in the door? Pepper rolled his eyes. Do you remember 577 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: what time we're talking about here? Do you you know 578 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: what here we're talking about? We're talking about him surfacing 579 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: at the time when the trial was about to take place, 580 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: the civil trial. They didn't want that civil trial. The 581 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: government didn't want it at all because of all the 582 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: evidence that was laid out. So this was all a 583 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: hated time when it would be very important to undercutt undermine, 584 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: or distract us from where we were going and what 585 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: we were learning. So Jim Green appeared out of the 586 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: mist when Bill Pepper was beginning to put together the 587 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: civil trial that would feature all the evidence that had 588 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: surfaced in the thirty years following King's murder. This was 589 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: the very thing that the authorities that fought so hard against, 590 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: a trial with witness testimony preserved in court records, but 591 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: putting on the trial was no small thing. Seventy witnesses 592 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: flying in and out of Memphis and put up in hotels, 593 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: all to be scheduled, arranged, and somehow paid for. It 594 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: was a tremendous undertaking. And because he had been fed 595 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: disinformation in the past, Pepper was on the lookout for 596 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: someone who might try to push their way onto the 597 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: witness stand and then make a mockery of the whole 598 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: proceeding and to build Pepper, Jim Green looked like that 599 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: guy that said, I believe that Jim Green's story is true, 600 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: at least most of it. In arriving at this conclusion. 601 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: I had the advantage of twenty additional years to watch 602 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: the story play out. I had talked to Rusty Larson, 603 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: who was not only Jim Green's lawyer but also his friend, 604 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: and I had the extraordinary benefit fit of reading Jim 605 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: Green's unpublished, an unvarnished manuscript. So Bill Pepper and I, 606 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: widely separated in time, came to different conclusions about Jim Green. 607 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: We've talked about it, and I think it speaks to 608 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: the health of our relationship that we can see pieces 609 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,439 Speaker 1: of this thing differently. Bill has spent over forty years 610 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: of his life successfully investigating this murder. I would not 611 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,879 Speaker 1: be here today except for the work he has done. 612 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: As to my take, was Jim Green looking at Ray 613 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: at the moment of the shooting as he said to 614 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: Bill Pepper, No, I think he was giving the abbreviated 615 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: form of the story. He intended to sit down with 616 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: Pepper and Dexter King and lay it all out, as 617 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: he did in his book where he explains how James 618 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: ol Ray emerged from the roomy house before six pm, 619 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: got into his car and drove away just as Ray 620 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: said he did, and the same said by witnesses Hendricks 621 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: and read in their sworn statements to the FBI. Was 622 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: Green telling the truth when he said he didn't know 623 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: that King was to be killed? Maybe not, but it's 624 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: a very understandable, almost forgivable lie to tell. If it 625 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: was a lie, Green got sucked into the plot, but 626 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: none of it was his idea. He was just twenty one. 627 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: But the biggest reason to believe that Green was not 628 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: an agent of disinformation is that his story points an 629 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 1: accusing finger back to the very same people that Bill 630 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: Pepper was pointing to, including the FBI. But it's not 631 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: a simple thumbs up or thumbs down with Jim Green, 632 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: because if you accept Green's story, you bring on stage 633 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: a cast of characters that doesn't exactly fit with the 634 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: ones already there. For example, Ray says that it was 635 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: a man named Raoul who was up in the rooming 636 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,760 Speaker 1: house with him, sending him on errands and presumably placing 637 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: the rifle with raised finger prints out on the sidewalk, 638 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: a rifle covered by a bedspread. But according to Jim Green, 639 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: Paul was the one who appeared out of the rooming 640 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: house and placed something on the street, something that from 641 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 1: his instance, looked like a Coat. Is it possible that 642 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: Paul was Raoul, or if they were separate people at 643 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: different times in his year long journey to Memphis. Did 644 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: Ray to protect himself roll him into one, perhaps along 645 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 1: with others to finish this puzzle. It would have helped 646 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: if Ray had been more forthcoming with his story. But 647 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: Ray was not the only one whose secrets make it 648 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: difficult to construct a clean mosaic of this crime. M 649 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: Jim Green says he was called to testify before the 650 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: House Select Committee in He believes that came about because, 651 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: in a foolish moment, he told Memphis reporter Kay Black 652 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: that he knew that Ray had not killed King. Green 653 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: said that two agents accompanied him to Washington, and before 654 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: he testified, he was visited by the agent he knew 655 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: as Paul and Paul's boss, who he knew was Rocchi, 656 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: a visit he interpreted as a warning. What did Green 657 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: tell the committee? We don't know, because, like with a 658 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: lot of other stuff that might shed light on this crime, 659 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,520 Speaker 1: it was kept secret, not to be revealed until sixty 660 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: years after the death of Martin Luther King. If King 661 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: were murdered by James Earl Ray acting alone, what was 662 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: the need for secrecy. If the purpose of the committee 663 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: was to use their power to investigate this murder and 664 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: reveal to the public their findings, why are their secret 665 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: files and secret testimony. I believe that Jim Green's story 666 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: is based in truth, and because of the official secrecy 667 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: surrounding this murder and the secrecy surrounding his testimony, I 668 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 1: feel obligated to present his story, even if it does 669 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: not precisely fit with other stories that I also believe 670 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: are based in truth. So that is what I have done. 671 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: I'll close with a brief paragraph from Jim Green's unpublished 672 00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: account of his participation in this horrific crime. So why 673 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: did I wait so long to tell what I know? 674 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: Watch TV and see how they try to discredit the 675 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: people who do come forward. Then I would ask myself, 676 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: what about my family? What if they charged me even 677 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: though I didn't know King was to be killed? Why 678 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: ruined my life over something no one will believe or 679 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: jeopardize what I now have for a murder that took 680 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: place over thirty years ago. And then I think that 681 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: I am older now and want to clear the air 682 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: before death. The first time I tried, the subcommittee didn't 683 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: want the truth. But this time I will do it 684 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: my way, and if people don't believe me, at least 685 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: I know that I told the truth and the rest 686 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 1: will be up to history next time. On the email 687 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: K tapes is how we live. As you didn't have 688 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: a rap, how would you feel about undergoing hypnosis for 689 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: the purpose of taking you back and putting you face 690 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: to face with this man to see if you could 691 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: remember his name. He tells you that he was the 692 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,319 Speaker 1: one who did the shooting straight up, Yeah, he told me, pop. 693 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: I mean it was three guys out there were Lionel Clark, 694 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 1: my brother, and had no old man and no man 695 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: didn't have guts to do it is to shake in ship. 696 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: If it was the brother that did it, and the 697 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: brother convinced the younger brother that he was the one 698 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: who did it, it would give him that type of insulation, 699 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: that type of protection. There was a man that was 700 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,879 Speaker 1: a sign to get the king before anybody could run 701 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: up from anywhere to get the king and make sure 702 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: he was dead. It was already arranged that he was 703 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: to go to Saint Joseph's Hospital down the straight. He 704 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: never was gonna make it out of that emergency room. Alive. 705 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The m l K Tapes, a 706 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This podcast 707 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: is not specifically endorsed by the King Family or the 708 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: King of State. The Email k Tapes is written and 709 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 1: hosted by Bill Claiper. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are 710 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: executive producers on behalf of I Heart Radio with producers 711 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: Trevor Young and Ben Keebrick. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay 712 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV with producers 713 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: Jamie Albright and Meredith Stepman. Original music by Makeup and 714 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: Vanity Set. Cover art by Mr Soul two six with 715 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: photography by Artemis Jenkins. Special thanks to Owen Rosenbaum and 716 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: Grace Royer at u t A, The Nord Group, back 717 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 1: Median Marketing, Envisioned Business Management, and Station sixteen. If you 718 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: have questions, you can visit our website, the Email k 719 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: Tapes dot com. We posted photos and videos related to 720 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: the podcast on our social media accounts. You can check 721 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: them out at the Email K Tapes. From our podcasts 722 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio and ten Your Foot TV, please 723 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever 724 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H