Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Bart and Lazarre.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody nailed it. Joined us always by our bar.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barts. When I hear
Speaker 1: people get all hot and bothered about Will Levis, what
Speaker 1: I hear is we look at him.
Speaker 2: He's running around. Look he's running away for the defenders.
Speaker 2: Look how far he through the ball? Who caught it?
Speaker 1: It's not important, Look how far the ball went.
Speaker 2: You're gonna do this. I always love figuring out which
Speaker 2: which snippets where al is gonna take? That was spot on.
Speaker 1: That was obvious.
Speaker 2: That one was obvious. And uh, we'll get to Will
Speaker 2: Levis and Alex's favorite draft quarterback in a second.
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna we're talking about Holton Aylor.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about it. What I don't want to do,
Speaker 2: Alex Bart, Evan Lazar along with you for the next
Speaker 2: hour and a half here on Patriots Catch twenty two.
Speaker 2: Super Bowl week for us, Alex, That's what I call it.
Speaker 2: This is draft week. It's super Bowl week. We were
Speaker 2: just talking about it on Patriots Unfiltered. Something about the
Speaker 2: draft just gets the fanboy Evan like, even more so
Speaker 2: than in season.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Just for some reason, I just love the draft. I
Speaker 2: love the prep work, I love the lead up to it.
Speaker 2: I love the actual draft itself. And I'm ready to
Speaker 2: be heard again. I am ready to be hurt again
Speaker 2: by by what the Patriots are going to do on
Speaker 2: Thursday night. Mostly what they do on Friday and Saturday.
Speaker 2: That's their you know, take it or leave it.
Speaker 1: Evan famously considers the NFL Draft a thirty two pick event. Exactly,
Speaker 1: I guess thirty one this year. Are you going to
Speaker 1: care about the first pick in the second round?
Speaker 2: Now? I care about the top fifty because the Patriots
Speaker 2: have two picks inside the top fifty. I'll give you
Speaker 2: the top fifty. Once we get past the top fifty,
Speaker 2: we're throwing darts. I like players, you like players outside
Speaker 2: the top. I'm not saying I don't have my guys
Speaker 2: that are later on in the draft, but whatever, I'm
Speaker 2: ready to be hurt again by the Patriots on Thursday night.
Speaker 2: And the main thing I just that's why I get
Speaker 2: so emotional. Like last year. Everybody that has followed us,
Speaker 2: it's famous, knows my reaction to cold strange last in
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty two draft is out there. It is.
Speaker 2: But I think that's that's what gets me so fired up,
Speaker 2: is because you and I I can speak about you,
Speaker 2: and I we you even more so than me. Go
Speaker 2: back into the fall with the draft, but from January on,
Speaker 2: from the time the Patriots either win the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: or eliminated from the playoffs or eliminated it, you know,
Speaker 2: their season ends, I dive headfirst into the draft and
Speaker 2: it's four months of prep all for three days. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of like, you know, like a wedding,
Speaker 2: right where like you plan it for a whole year
Speaker 2: and then it's really only like four hours of your
Speaker 2: life and then it's over, right, Like, that's what the
Speaker 2: draft feels like for me. So when the Patriots go
Speaker 2: into the draft and I'm all jacked up, I got
Speaker 2: my footy pajamason, I'm ready to go, and then they
Speaker 2: go ahead and they do what they do. That's why
Speaker 2: it becomes so disappointing to me. So we're gonna discuss
Speaker 2: to start the show, and you can call in eight
Speaker 2: five to five Pats five hundred and weigh in if
Speaker 2: you want, and what the Patriots should do at their
Speaker 2: biggest positions of need. Now we've talked about receiver, corner,
Speaker 2: tackle for four months. We've been talking about those positions.
Speaker 1: I'm not just for four months. So it's funny. When
Speaker 1: we first started the show, I had somebody when we
Speaker 1: first started doing the draft stuff on the show, somebody
Speaker 1: said to me like, oh, you know, it's funny. I
Speaker 1: remember you saying last year tackles in corners. And then
Speaker 1: I actually, I wish I had a way to play it.
Speaker 1: I went back and found the clip from our old show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we said in February of twenty twenty two, tackle and
Speaker 1: corner gonna be the positions in the twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: draft for the Patriots. So forget four months. We've been
Speaker 1: doing this for like our whole team fourteen months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: these tackles in these corners.
Speaker 2: So those three positions, I think we're all in concert,
Speaker 2: are at the top of the list.
Speaker 1: And the only by the way, the only reason we
Speaker 1: didn't say receiver at this time last year was we
Speaker 1: thought they were gonna take a receiver at this time
Speaker 1: last year.
Speaker 2: So I'm ready to throw edge rusher into this conversation
Speaker 2: for two reasons one. They've met with every edge rusher
Speaker 2: in the first round under the sun, so at some
Speaker 2: point you got to read into that. And second of all,
Speaker 2: it's a great class and they do have You can
Speaker 2: talk yourself into that being a need that will span
Speaker 2: multiple seasons for them, right josh U Jay's contract year,
Speaker 2: Judahan being thirty one years old, I think that you
Speaker 2: can talk yourself into that being a good investment for
Speaker 2: the organization, even if it's not the biggest need for
Speaker 2: this year and tomorrow. It's it's a good investment to
Speaker 2: have as many good pass rushers as you possib can
Speaker 2: on the team.
Speaker 1: Well, there's also an old Patriots draft idiom and like
Speaker 1: all of them, I think there's a certain element of
Speaker 1: truth to it. I don't think it's one hundred percent true.
Speaker 1: But you draft four next year, right, so twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: and if if we do project ahead, God, you said
Speaker 1: that edge tackles still probably the biggest need because all
Speaker 1: of these guys are in one of your contracts. But
Speaker 1: so are josh Ucha, so is Anthony Jennings. You're gonna
Speaker 1: have Matthew Judon in a contract year. You're gonna have
Speaker 1: teacher Wwhi's in a contract year, they're all up or
Speaker 1: about to be up. So I think if we project ahead,
Speaker 1: it's all tackle and edge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and oh god, you said that, because I think
Speaker 2: that this is the biggest if I had to write up,
Speaker 2: the biggest indictment on the Patriots draft strategy of late
Speaker 2: is that they have been prisoners of their own moment
Speaker 2: over the last let's call it three or four drafts
Speaker 2: where yeah, they have either created holes or have viewed
Speaker 2: holes on their roster that they have picked at the
Speaker 2: top of the draft for the upcoming season. They used
Speaker 2: to be excellent at being a year ahead of everything,
Speaker 2: so I don't disagree they could also be a year
Speaker 2: ahead of everything because their roster was so complete. That's fair.
Speaker 1: I don't think that philosophy works when you all.
Speaker 2: But it all. It's a domino effect, right, because if
Speaker 2: you stay a year ahead, then when those holes come
Speaker 2: up on the roster, you're already a year ahead. When
Speaker 2: Richard Seymour starts to age out, you already have the
Speaker 2: next guy. When Matt Light starts to age out, maybe
Speaker 2: a better comparison, you already have Nate Soldier.
Speaker 1: That is true, and look, I think it goes in
Speaker 1: lockstep with the you know, year two earlier versus year
Speaker 1: two late philosophy of free agency and resigning players. But
Speaker 1: the reality and maybe you can overcome one year. But
Speaker 1: that's a great philosophy to have when you know your
Speaker 1: roster is going to be stocked a key positions from
Speaker 1: year to year. When you have the drafts they did
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen, and that is the year
Speaker 1: that they only had the four picks, and it's Antonio
Speaker 1: Garcia and Derek Rivers. I'm gonna go through the top
Speaker 1: one hundred picks here, Isaiah wins Sony Michelle, Duke Dawson,
Speaker 1: Nikhil Harry, Jewan Williams, Chase Winovich, those were there, and
Speaker 1: Damien Harris. Those were all of their top one hundred
Speaker 1: picks in a three year span. You don't have that
Speaker 1: luxury of drafting a year ahead because guess what if
Speaker 1: the Naikil Harry pick hits, We're not talking about receivers
Speaker 1: in need right now. If the Juan Williams pick hits,
Speaker 1: and the Duke Dawson pick hits, we're not talking about
Speaker 1: corners as in need right now. So I think at
Speaker 1: a certain point you have to throw that approach out
Speaker 1: the window. And by the way, it's not a coincidence
Speaker 1: that you know. I think it's funny a year after
Speaker 1: a draft people say, oh, it's a great class, or
Speaker 1: oh it's not. People notice I cut off in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: There even though you can in some arguments include that
Speaker 1: twenty twenty class that has Devon Nassiassi and Dalton Keene. Right,
Speaker 1: But the reality is you don't see the true impact
Speaker 1: of a draft class for three or four years down
Speaker 1: the road. I'm gonna run through those top one hundred
Speaker 1: picks again, but I'm just gonna give the positions. But first, Evan,
Speaker 1: remind us, what are the positions we're looking at?
Speaker 2: Corner, receiver, tackle, edge.
Speaker 1: Okay, here are those picks, edge, tackle, tackle, running back, Corner, receiver, corner, edge,
Speaker 1: running back. They just missed on the positions that we
Speaker 1: are now talking heavily about.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: That is why the draft a year ahead thing, I
Speaker 1: think rightfully has gone out the window the last couple
Speaker 1: of years because they're trying to They're still going back
Speaker 1: and trying to make up for the picks that they
Speaker 1: didn't hit the last couple of years.
Speaker 2: Fair point. I think the biggest thing that I come
Speaker 2: away with this and this is why I want how
Speaker 2: I wanted to set this up. I And look, we've
Speaker 2: known that Aaron Rodgers was going to go to the
Speaker 2: Jets for a couple months now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate the people reacting to that.
Speaker 2: I'm not being super reactionary to that necessarily, but I
Speaker 2: think I look at where this state, the state of
Speaker 2: the Patriots roster, and I actually felt this way about
Speaker 2: the Jets even before Aaron Rodgers got there, that they
Speaker 2: have a better roster right now than you on paper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were a quarterback away, right.
Speaker 2: The state of the Patriots roster right now tells me
Speaker 2: that as long as they're picking a player from one
Speaker 2: of those four positions that we've been naming consistently, I'm
Speaker 2: good with it. Because they just need top end of
Speaker 2: the roster talent. They need elite players, they need blue
Speaker 2: chip players. They need the high end starters, all pro
Speaker 2: caliber guys like whatever.
Speaker 1: High floor players, guys who are gonna be that now.
Speaker 2: They need elite, blue chip talent. So you gotta throw
Speaker 2: in this draft. To me, this is BPA, this is
Speaker 2: the best player available draft. In the caveats of the
Speaker 2: four positions. Okay, okay, because I am not real. This
Speaker 2: is not a draft that they can afford to reach
Speaker 2: on somebody just because they feel like that's the biggest
Speaker 2: need on the board for them. So which is what
Speaker 2: they did last year. They can't or to do that again.
Speaker 1: That that is correct the caveat, that's an important caveat
Speaker 1: you give though, And I think it's not best player available,
Speaker 1: it's best player for the team.
Speaker 2: Best player for the team, had four different premiums. I'm
Speaker 2: casting a pretty wide net.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the point is, like, look, let's be honest here,
Speaker 1: who's the best player on the board. Gonna be at fourteen,
Speaker 1: best best football player available, it's gonna be.
Speaker 2: It could be. I think Jon might go ten to
Speaker 2: the Eagles.
Speaker 1: But that's wow, that would be something. Did they have
Speaker 1: you know, I hadn't thought of it. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't just I don't entirely is that can just
Speaker 2: do it?
Speaker 1: They can they can do whatever. Yeah, I kind of
Speaker 1: figured they. I think that they're gonna go in a
Speaker 1: different direction whatever. I think Jalen Carter is there, if it,
Speaker 1: we have all the margin in the world.
Speaker 2: I agree. If he's there, then it would probably be
Speaker 2: so you have.
Speaker 1: Carter going higher and tend okay, Okay, so you don't
Speaker 1: like Tyree Wilson, Okay, ye, I think.
Speaker 2: Is going to be I think ty Wilson's going number two.
Speaker 1: I would just I mean, he's Will Anderson's better. I
Speaker 1: don't care how much like Tyree. Okay to everybody saying
Speaker 1: Patriots should.
Speaker 2: Take me, agreed. Finally, can you believe that there we
Speaker 2: go there and there's the clip for next week? Uh,
Speaker 2: put on a blindfold, take the best player available for
Speaker 2: the Patriots. I really think it's going to be Vjon
Speaker 2: Robinson sold No. But I'm saying if I for those
Speaker 2: who have the take of close your eyes, who's the
Speaker 2: best player who has the highest Madden rating, go, it's Bjon.
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm exactly what this.
Speaker 2: Is that I want the player use your analogy with
Speaker 2: the highest Madden rating at one of those four positions.
Speaker 2: What I don't want to do, what I do absolutely
Speaker 2: do not want to do, is I don't want to
Speaker 2: pass on Let's just use this as an example. I
Speaker 2: don't want to pass on Tyree Wilson to draft Darnell
Speaker 2: Wright just because they feel like tackle is a bigger
Speaker 2: need than edge because I personally feel like this team
Speaker 2: right now, okay, just needs the blue chip, right It
Speaker 2: just needs the talent. It doesn't necessarily need to be
Speaker 2: at a position that they absolutely desperately need on the
Speaker 2: depth chart, they need to be at that talent level.
Speaker 2: I feel like this draft, more than any other draft
Speaker 2: that I've ever covered, and we've talked about this and
Speaker 2: gone back and forth about this a lot, this draft,
Speaker 2: more than any other draft that I have ever covered,
Speaker 2: is very, very razor thin at the top in terms
Speaker 2: of elite blue chick.
Speaker 1: It's not a good class. It's not a good class.
Speaker 2: It's a good depth class. It's not a good top
Speaker 2: of the of the draft class.
Speaker 1: This is this is our sixth I don't even think
Speaker 1: it's that great of a depth class. This is our
Speaker 1: sixth year doing this, like intensely. Yeah, this is the
Speaker 1: worst class we've done.
Speaker 2: It's one.
Speaker 1: It's at the top in terms of depth. Look, if
Speaker 1: you need a corner, if you need a tight end,
Speaker 1: you're in great shape. If you need an edge, you're
Speaker 1: in pretty good shape. If you need a tackle, as
Speaker 1: long as you willing to spend a first round pick,
Speaker 1: you're okay. If you think you're waiting, you're not so much. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. That it's a bad year to need a receiver.
Speaker 1: It's a bad year to need a safety. It's not
Speaker 1: a great year to need a line It's a really
Speaker 1: bad year to need a linebacker. Yeah, not a good
Speaker 1: year to need a quarterback. And they already said that.
Speaker 2: We disagree on that.
Speaker 1: I guess running back, it's fine running back class.
Speaker 2: It's a good running back class. Yeah, because Bijon and
Speaker 2: Jamier Gibbs are RB ones in a lot of classes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like even further down, there's guys I like,
Speaker 1: we don't need to get into that. But I want
Speaker 1: to go back to something you said that, you know,
Speaker 1: just take the best player from those four positions, and
Speaker 1: you said you would rather them take Tyree Wilson than
Speaker 1: move back and take Darnault, right, no, or.
Speaker 2: Don't even talk about moving back, right? Just in general, Okay,
Speaker 2: all right, this is my biggest thing going into this draft.
Speaker 2: The Patriots have In my mind, the Patriots have plenty
Speaker 2: of B plus players. They have plenty of good players
Speaker 2: like red I like to call them red chips, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Guys like Kyle Dugger, Josh Ucha, Ramandre Stevenson. I would
Speaker 2: actually even say, you know, on the line, Mike on
Speaker 2: Wenu is a red chip. I think Juju has a
Speaker 2: chance to be a red chip now that he's in
Speaker 2: this offense and going to be more of a focal
Speaker 2: point of the offense. They have a pretty decent amount
Speaker 2: of red chip players. I think Judon's the only bus
Speaker 2: driver on the team right now. He's the only guy
Speaker 2: that his game plan for is circled. Is a game
Speaker 2: wrecker that can take over a football game on his
Speaker 2: side of the football. I don't think that they have
Speaker 2: that on offense right now because their best player on
Speaker 2: offense is a running back. So I don't think they
Speaker 2: have that guy.
Speaker 1: That's fair, but I guess so here's my question though.
Speaker 1: Let's say that, like I would still like to see
Speaker 1: them positionally put a little thought positionally into what they're doing.
Speaker 1: And Darnolt Wright is a different kind of player than
Speaker 1: Tyree Wilson. I'll agree with you on that. But if
Speaker 1: it's Tyree Wilson or Broderick Jones or Tyree Wilson in
Speaker 1: Paris Johnson, sure they need to go with the tackle.
Speaker 1: If it's Tyree Wilson or Devin Witherspoon, they need to
Speaker 1: go with Devin Witherspoon. I they still need to There
Speaker 1: are certain things about their team that they can get
Speaker 1: to the quarterback right now, maybe not as well as
Speaker 1: they could, like maybe not as well.
Speaker 2: Those tears are fair.
Speaker 1: But like you, Mac Jones or whoever the quarterback is
Speaker 1: needs to be protected. You're not going to win games
Speaker 1: when your quarterback is constantly throwing with pass rushers in
Speaker 1: his lap like we saw last year. And the reality is,
Speaker 1: whether it's Mac, whether it's Bailey Zappi, where they take somebody.
Speaker 1: This team is going to have a young quarterback this year,
Speaker 1: and they're going to have a young quarterback for the
Speaker 1: foreseeable future. You need to set that guy up to succeed.
Speaker 1: The way you do that is you take a tackle right.
Speaker 2: The way that they do that is you take a
Speaker 2: tackle because they're not going to take that right.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: You know, my take on the fourteenth overall pick and
Speaker 1: helping the quarterbacks is you traded for Jerry Judy. But but
Speaker 1: my point being, yeah, if you can't cover the best
Speaker 1: receiver in your division right now, you can't do it.
Speaker 1: You struggle to do it for years. You need to
Speaker 1: get somebody who has a shot at doing that. You're
Speaker 1: doing it in the first round of fourteen. Look if
Speaker 1: all the blue chip corners and tackles are gone and
Speaker 1: the one blue chip receiver's gone as JSN, then yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd rather I'd rather have Tyrie Wilson. Then you just
Speaker 1: start early on the second tier. I might even trade
Speaker 1: back because, like you said, that the strength in this
Speaker 1: classes later on, I would love to see them come
Speaker 1: away with more than three top one hundred picks.
Speaker 2: I also don't I would if that's the if that's
Speaker 2: the way the board falls, I still would take Tyre Wilson.
Speaker 2: Under that, we're kind of using him as the blue chip.
Speaker 2: Like example here, what if I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Tyriy Wilson's a blue chip prospect either, Are you sure
Speaker 1: he is? Yes, I think he's the play straight, he's
Speaker 1: the value blue chip. He's the value blue chip.
Speaker 2: I think he's a chip.
Speaker 1: I think he's right on.
Speaker 2: The You just don't get a lot of guys that
Speaker 2: are that long and that athletic, Like you're talking about
Speaker 2: a guy with a ridiculous wingspan and power but also
Speaker 2: can stand up or put his hand in the dirt
Speaker 2: and be a versatile. I think that he's one of
Speaker 2: those guys. But regardless of all of that, my point
Speaker 2: is mainly the tears right that you were sort of
Speaker 2: getting at that. If we're starting to talk about would
Speaker 2: I rather a Tier two tackle or a Tier one
Speaker 2: edge in Tier one? Yeah, for the Patriots right now,
Speaker 2: I'm taking the Tier one age.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying there all you need to leave room
Speaker 1: to go positionally within tier one. Sure, an edge should
Speaker 1: be the fourth position of that first tier.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that segues into I think maybe where we
Speaker 2: differ maybe I think, well, besides Will Evis, I think
Speaker 2: maybe where we differed the most on this entire class
Speaker 2: is the wide receiver position. And I don't want to
Speaker 2: put words in your mouth, but we've talked about it
Speaker 2: off the air, and I think you hate this wide
Speaker 2: receiver class. I was just gonna say it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's okay, No, I mean, there's some fun
Speaker 1: players in it. There's some fun players in it, but
Speaker 1: I think it's getting a lot of benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 1: all right. You know, like when when like Comedian, there's
Speaker 1: a comedy show, right and it's multiple comedians they talk
Speaker 1: about first Comedian, like warming the crowd up right, and
Speaker 1: the next guy does. So when comedians do shows, they
Speaker 1: want to go last because the the audience has been
Speaker 1: laughing the whole time, right, and they're just ready to
Speaker 1: laugh at anything. It's how comedians see it. I've been
Speaker 1: Seinfeld's a great background show. I always have it on
Speaker 1: during draft prep because I've seen a million times.
Speaker 2: Is this a stick that he does?
Speaker 1: They talk about this philosophy in comedy. Okay, the idea
Speaker 1: of being the crowd is so warmed up for wide
Speaker 1: receivers because we had maybe twenty nineteen in the moment,
Speaker 1: wasn't a great class, but people remember it for what
Speaker 1: those players have been, not necessarily what they were. But
Speaker 1: then in twenty twenty we talked about you had five
Speaker 1: receivers go in the first round, and we talked about
Speaker 1: what a great class that was. And then in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one you had six a record go in the
Speaker 1: first round, and then last year you had another five.
Speaker 1: People are so ready to just assume if I see
Speaker 1: a receiver in the NFL draft projected to go in
Speaker 1: the top one hundred, he's going to be a superstar.
Speaker 1: I think people are just in that mindset, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I keep doing mocks.
Speaker 2: Orr.
Speaker 1: I have the Patriots taking receivers kind of late, and
Speaker 1: people say, why aren't you just taking the play making
Speaker 1: wide receiver at forty six? The game breaking wide receiver
Speaker 1: at forty six? Who?
Speaker 2: Who were you talking about? That guy doesn't exist in
Speaker 2: this draft. So I think that we do. So we
Speaker 2: disagree slightly on that point.
Speaker 1: You you think that, all right, I'm gonna your guy Evan,
Speaker 1: your buddy Justin Jefferson went twenty first overall? Are you
Speaker 1: getting Justin? Are you getting Justin Jefferson twenty first over all?
Speaker 1: In the drift last year? For instance? Right, uh, Sky Moore,
Speaker 1: Alex Pierce, George Pickens, guys the Patriots wanted. Those guys
Speaker 1: are first round picks this year. It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: It's not the same class. There's a tweet from so
Speaker 1: I think that.
Speaker 2: This is what I disagree with just a little bit, okay,
Speaker 2: and I I disagree with people that I respect. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a opinion on this, So maybe I'm on an island
Speaker 2: on it, and I'm willing to be on an island.
Speaker 2: The thing that I see with this wide receiver class
Speaker 2: is not necessarily the the justin Jefferson's being in the
Speaker 2: twenties or are ceedee Lamb, I think went like eighteen
Speaker 2: or nineteen to the Cowboys that year. I get that
Speaker 2: this receiver class is not on that level of depth
Speaker 2: and on that level of town in the first round.
Speaker 2: The problem that I have is that over the last
Speaker 2: couple of years, when we've been really doing this professionally,
Speaker 2: we've had people tell me that Johan Dotson is a
Speaker 2: first round pick. He went to the Commanders last year.
Speaker 2: I think at like nineteen, Yes, right right, yeah, we'd
Speaker 2: tell me Rashad Bateman to Baltimore, Hollywood Brown when he
Speaker 2: was picked by Baltimore. Good pick by everybody in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: Those are that tier of receiver. Dodson, Bateman, Hollywood. Those guys,
Speaker 2: to me, I think Zay Flowers and Jackson Smith and
Speaker 2: Jig but are right there with them, right there with them.
Speaker 2: And that's why I don't I don't understand.
Speaker 1: But those you just said, you don't think those players
Speaker 1: are first round picks.
Speaker 2: They are by they were drafted in the first round.
Speaker 2: I would I have a do I have a first true?
Speaker 2: I don't really do my point rankings by like ground,
Speaker 2: I don't really do it that way. But would I
Speaker 2: if I translated it, would I have a first round
Speaker 2: grade on Zay Flowers. No, I wouldn't have a first round.
Speaker 1: Grade just JA said first round receiver.
Speaker 2: But I would probably only have about fifteen first round grade. Okay,
Speaker 2: But the point is, so there's a whole other half
Speaker 2: of the round that we still have to pick for, right.
Speaker 1: No, But but that's not the point. It It pushes
Speaker 1: when you have guys at the top right, when.
Speaker 2: You cannot tell me that Johan Dotson was worthy of
Speaker 2: that pick last year and then tell me that Zay
Speaker 2: Flowers isn't worthy of first round pick, that they're definitely.
Speaker 1: It's not even it's not even that. Look, I would rather,
Speaker 1: and it's gonna surprise you to hear this. I would
Speaker 1: rather take Zay Flowers in the first round than any
Speaker 1: of these projected Day two wide receivers outside of Marvin
Speaker 1: Mims on Day two. Okay, I would because here's what happens.
Speaker 1: You this draft doesn't have I just happen to have
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one draft up here, Jamar Chase, Jalen Wattle,
Speaker 1: Toronta Smith. That group's not there, correct, So and I
Speaker 1: think you're mistaken. Maybe my hatred for the wide receiver
Speaker 1: class is how it's being talked about, because I actually
Speaker 1: think the league's gonna see it sort of how I
Speaker 1: describe it here. You don't have that class, but so
Speaker 1: many people are just under or you don't have that
Speaker 1: tier of this class. So many people are just under
Speaker 1: the assumption that that's how the NFL works, that the
Speaker 1: top receivers in the class or that level of player.
Speaker 1: So now you have JSN, Zay Flowers, Quinton Johnson, people
Speaker 1: viewing them like Jamar Chase, Jalen Wattle, Davante SI.
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying, and so now then what happens.
Speaker 2: But that's that's That's not what I'm saying. What I
Speaker 2: am saying to you is is that if you are
Speaker 2: a team like let's use the Commanders the Commanders, and
Speaker 2: I know they're not going to take another receiver. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, let's use it as an example. If they
Speaker 2: felt like Johan Dotson was worth that pick last year,
Speaker 2: there is no way their grading system tells you that
Speaker 2: Zay Flowers is weren't the same.
Speaker 1: I know I don't disagree with you, but I'm saying
Speaker 1: are teams going to so so you see teams saying
Speaker 1: it like that, saying, Okay, Jahan Dotts was nineteen, Zay
Speaker 1: Flowers as nineteen.
Speaker 2: I see them see they should be saying that those
Speaker 2: guys are in the same tier the same way that
Speaker 2: I would say. That's felt like Marvin Mims and Sky
Speaker 2: Moore should be viewed as the same.
Speaker 1: But here's how I think some people, Here's how I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people on the outside see it.
Speaker 1: And here's how I wonder some NFL teams see it,
Speaker 1: just because of how important the wide receivers positions become
Speaker 1: in football. Do they see Zay Flowers, Jahan Dotts and
Speaker 1: comparable players, comparable picks, or do they see it as
Speaker 1: Zay Flowers is the best wide receiver in this class,
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase was the best receiver in his class. Jamar
Speaker 1: Chase was a top ten pick. Therefore, Zay Flowers must
Speaker 1: be a top ten back. Because I'll tell you that
Speaker 1: before you tell me that's ridiculous. No, isn't that how
Speaker 1: we do it with quarterbacks?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: But because that's exactly that's exactly how we.
Speaker 2: Do this is this really gets it for me. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: because in twenty twenty one, Yeah, the Patriots selected Christian
Speaker 2: Barmore at the top of the second round. They traded up,
Speaker 2: they did correct to select Christian Barber at the top
Speaker 2: of the second round. We spoke, I believe we spoke
Speaker 2: to Bill Yeah later that day, and he said, it's
Speaker 2: very rare that the top defensive tackle in the entire
Speaker 2: draft is available on the on the beginning of Day two,
Speaker 2: and we felt like it was too good to pass up.
Speaker 2: So in my mind, they I think they might look
Speaker 2: at this receiver class if they go receiver. This is
Speaker 2: how I think they're gonna think. They might look at
Speaker 2: this receiver class the same way they looked at Christian Barmore,
Speaker 2: and they might say, look.
Speaker 1: Oh they will in some years.
Speaker 2: Right, the top receiver next year, Marvin Harrison Juniors could
Speaker 2: be the number one pick in the freaking draft.
Speaker 1: He'd be a number one picking this draft right.
Speaker 2: He could be the number one pick in the draft.
Speaker 2: That's if the team that's picking number one overall has
Speaker 2: a quarterback already. He could be the number one pick
Speaker 2: in the draft. If he's not available right, then wide
Speaker 2: receiver one's not available right to us. But this year
Speaker 2: Jackson Smith the jig, but wide receiver one is available
Speaker 2: at fourteen right now. The other thing that I would
Speaker 2: just say, but okay, so I don't entirely disagree with
Speaker 2: that that.
Speaker 1: But are the other teams going to see it that way?
Speaker 1: I don't know. My thing is more I think that
Speaker 1: they would so I JSN is legit wide receiver one
Speaker 1: and all that and right. But my concern so the
Speaker 1: Barmore things actually a perfect comp because the way I
Speaker 1: see it going is they say, all right, we have
Speaker 1: these guys grated in the second round, but it's good
Speaker 1: for this class. So we're gonna be able to get
Speaker 1: you know, Zay Flowers, the second best receiver early in
Speaker 1: the second round. But the other teams are gonna say
Speaker 1: it's a wide receiver driven league and they're all off
Speaker 1: the board by twenty okay, right, So that if the
Speaker 1: other teams don't afford them that that's more where I'm
Speaker 1: coming from.
Speaker 2: Fair that's a mistake. But I think the biggest the
Speaker 2: thing that I get on you about is that once
Speaker 2: we get to day two, if we are still sitting
Speaker 2: here on Friday, and you and I are are talking
Speaker 2: or texting back and Forth or whatever. And some of
Speaker 2: these guys are still there because the league guys, let's say,
Speaker 2: you know, Jordan Addison or Josh Downs and Quentin Johnston
Speaker 2: and like some of these guys that are maybe like
Speaker 2: three very different players. Mimsy, you know, my guy, Mingo.
Speaker 2: These are so many different tiers of players. But I'm
Speaker 2: just saying all these Day two receivers, I think, are
Speaker 2: these guys that are gonna all go on Day two.
Speaker 2: That's That's what I'm naming Day two guys. If all
Speaker 2: of these guys are there, then they are getting drafted properly.
Speaker 2: They're getting drafted where they should get drafted, right. And
Speaker 2: I look at it, and I look at it and
Speaker 2: I say that I think, let's take Marvin Mims because
Speaker 2: we both like Marvin Mims. Marvin Mims to me is
Speaker 2: in an equal tier to Taekwon, to Sky, to Alec Pierce,
Speaker 2: like to all the guys that went better than those guys.
Speaker 2: So then why are we not taking him on Day
Speaker 2: two the sixth round.
Speaker 1: I've said, Marvin Mims at forty six, that's that is
Speaker 1: my day too wide receiver pick.
Speaker 2: But I live with all these guys. To me, whether
Speaker 2: it's because my know is that I don't like his Hyatt, right,
Speaker 2: So okay, So that's my point. Is everybody else I'm
Speaker 2: on board with on day two.
Speaker 1: But when people do that with Jalen Hyatt, when people
Speaker 1: do that with Jonathan Mingo, when people do that with
Speaker 1: disagree on we Okay, fine, I shouldn't have tried to
Speaker 1: pick a fight. I should have brought that one up.
Speaker 1: Let me reset. When people do that with Jalen Hyatt,
Speaker 1: When people do that with Tyler Scott, when people do
Speaker 1: that with Tank Dell, when people do with A. T. Perry,
Speaker 1: and their logic is, well, he's a day two wide receiver.
Speaker 1: Of course he's good. No, because last year pretty much
Speaker 1: all of those players I just named are Day three picks.
Speaker 2: I agree with you there, So I think that's here.
Speaker 2: We're down a tier two.
Speaker 1: So here's my I It's not that I don't think
Speaker 1: there's guys you can get on day two that are
Speaker 1: right to go in day two. I think the sheer
Speaker 1: volume of them is significantly less than it's been the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, and teams are going to realize that.
Speaker 1: I think Josh Downs is going to go before well
Speaker 1: before forty six. I had him going thirtieth.
Speaker 2: I think I'll go well before forty six, but I'm
Speaker 2: really interested to see because I've always I keep comparing
Speaker 2: this to the nineteen draft right where only Hollywood and
Speaker 2: Nikhil Harry went in the first round. Everybody else, Aj Brown, Debo,
Speaker 2: the whole rest of them went on Day two. My really,
Speaker 2: and your whole adage of the positional value of the
Speaker 2: wide receivers now pushing everything upah is I think could
Speaker 2: potentially be spot on right, Like that could be exactly.
Speaker 1: How the quarter what happens wide receiver quarterback.
Speaker 2: It's just worth it to try the Bills picking at
Speaker 2: the end of the first round to take Josh Downs.
Speaker 1: It's just they, oh God, that would be such a
Speaker 1: good pick, right. It just is worth it to them,
Speaker 1: even though they take Jalen Y instead. Even the Josh
Speaker 1: Downs might be more like a fortieth pick and a
Speaker 1: good receiver draft, the positional value is so high that
Speaker 1: it's worth it. I just look at it and say
Speaker 1: that I think that the league is going to view
Speaker 1: it and not prop.
Speaker 2: Up the position quite that much. And that's why I
Speaker 2: feel so by forty six, whether it's the first round
Speaker 2: pick or it's your second round pick. One of those
Speaker 2: picks I really feel like should be a receiver, and
Speaker 2: I think that there's going to be a receiver worthy
Speaker 2: of that pick.
Speaker 1: So okay, that last thing is what I'm worried about,
Speaker 1: because again, how much does it need to be propped up?
Speaker 1: Let's take JSN, Quentin Johnson, Jordan Adison say Flowers off
Speaker 1: the board, right, Let's assume that they're gone first round
Speaker 1: and whatever. Right, So who do you need to fall?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Who are the guys realistic that could fall to justify
Speaker 1: that pick. I'm just going to read off the board,
Speaker 1: Evan Jalen Hyatt Nor.
Speaker 2: We just don't like were some people like him, but
Speaker 2: he's not.
Speaker 1: He's not the guy that we're talking about, the guy
Speaker 1: that when we say they need to go get an
Speaker 1: impact receiver and they can do so on day two,
Speaker 1: if they get Jalen Hyatt, we would say they did
Speaker 1: not accomplish that, right, Josh Downs, I think we both agree, yes,
Speaker 1: But is he how far is he making it? I
Speaker 1: don't think he gets past thirty five. Cedric Tillman. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't hate if they draft Cedric Tillman, but like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that they got a playmaker, I'd say. Okay,
Speaker 1: now we start talking about Devonte Parker as a camp cut, right,
Speaker 1: Marvin Mims, we both agree, yes, Tyler Scott, No, Tank
Speaker 1: Dell too.
Speaker 2: Small, No, Rashi Rice two doesn't separate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you like Mingo, I don't. We'll call that
Speaker 1: a split.
Speaker 2: What do you mean a split? And you got to
Speaker 2: talk about mingo for a second? No, no, no, let
Speaker 2: me make my point. Then we can talk about mingo. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's we'll call two and a half receivers. Mims downs mingo. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's and you just around out the top one hundred,
Speaker 2: Jayden Reid, it would be a reach at that point
Speaker 2: at Perry, No, Kayshawn Boute over that one.
Speaker 1: I missed on that, I admitted I missed. There you go,
Speaker 1: Mark to tape.
Speaker 2: That's what that's what the combine is for.
Speaker 1: And Michael Wilson, No, ye, that's two guys. That's two
Speaker 1: or three. That's two or three players. You either need
Speaker 1: to fall from thirty one to forty six. So are
Speaker 1: there going to be Is there gonna be one wide
Speaker 1: receiver taken in a span of fifteen picks on the
Speaker 1: top fifty or are you going to move up to
Speaker 1: get him. That's basically what if you can't do that,
Speaker 1: then you shouldn't take a receiver on Day two? This
Speaker 1: because he is the don't fascinating about this draft. I
Speaker 1: don't need them to draft Jayden and I like Jane Reid.
Speaker 1: I don't need them to draft Jayden reading Berry. I
Speaker 1: don't need them to draft Tyler Scott and have him
Speaker 1: flame out. I don't need them to draft at Perry
Speaker 1: just to find out he's slower tack on Thornton.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: What kills me is the and we're gonna get himing
Speaker 1: on a second, I promise. Yeah, is the just blind
Speaker 1: blinders on take a receiver on day two because it works,
Speaker 1: because every receiver in the NFL draft is good. It's honestly,
Speaker 1: it's the exact same thing as the Well, No, they
Speaker 1: don't need to take quarterback in the first round to
Speaker 1: replace Mac Jones. Just draft do what the Eagles did.
Speaker 1: Draft an athletic upside quarterback in the second round like
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts and you're good. Yeah, I think honestly, and
Speaker 1: I'm a mat guy. People know this. I want to
Speaker 1: see them stick it out with him. I think that
Speaker 1: would be a great play this year. Show me the guy,
Speaker 1: Show me the guy. You can't just describe a player
Speaker 1: that day.
Speaker 2: That guy in this draft is head and hooker, but
Speaker 2: that's but he.
Speaker 1: Doesn't have the upside that you know, because it's about
Speaker 1: upside and he's on the second right, you can't like.
Speaker 1: It bugs me if people do this in the draft.
Speaker 1: You don't get to describe a player without a name
Speaker 1: and then say draft them because that player might not
Speaker 1: be there. And I feel like a receiver. I feel
Speaker 1: like the receiver people want the Patriots to take. I
Speaker 1: need a name because I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: are describing a player without a name, and at that point,
Speaker 1: what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Okay, so, uh, the two names that I keep coming
Speaker 2: back to, and we're talking about Day two receivers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the most fascinating thing that I think about this draft
Speaker 2: is how exactly these receivers come off the board. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you are correct that this draft, this draft should
Speaker 2: look like the twenty nineteen draft at receiver besides Jays.
Speaker 1: But not with it's not that many, it's not that deep.
Speaker 1: There's not that many hits.
Speaker 2: But but my point is, but I get, Okay, James
Speaker 2: saylers should be the second receiver picking off the board
Speaker 2: in the mid twenties, right where Hollywood breads.
Speaker 1: You were three in the first round and then you
Speaker 1: get a big run in the second, right, is what
Speaker 1: you're okay? Yeah, I yes, that's probably what it's going
Speaker 1: to look like.
Speaker 2: That's how it should look if your fear of positional
Speaker 2: value comes into play. Yeah, and then Zay Flower is
Speaker 2: going to be a top twenty pick in the draft.
Speaker 2: He's going to go at the end of the teams.
Speaker 1: He's not getting out of the first round.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's getting out of the I don't
Speaker 2: think he should.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: My point is is he's going to go five to
Speaker 2: ten picks higher than he probably should. So instead of
Speaker 2: at twenty five, we're now going to be talking about
Speaker 2: him at like sixteen.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You know, supposedly the reason the Packers wanted thirteen was
Speaker 1: to take Oh no, that was Chase said, okay, So that.
Speaker 2: That it's really fast to see. How does the league
Speaker 2: because they did this a few years ago, not to
Speaker 2: go on a separate tangent, but it is a few
Speaker 2: years ago with quarterbacks. With that the Milik Willis class, right,
Speaker 2: there was no quarterback selected for I think Pickett last year, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Pickett was sixteen or something like that.
Speaker 1: And it was that's true. OK, that's true.
Speaker 2: Right, So they course corrected at quarterback last year. Let's
Speaker 2: see what they do at receiver this year. The one
Speaker 2: guy that I think, you know, we both agree on Mims.
Speaker 2: If MS is somebody that they can target on day
Speaker 2: two and we're both on board, I think Josh Downs
Speaker 2: would be like dream Mims is like like realistic.
Speaker 1: So right, hang on a second, and I think Down
Speaker 1: is the better player?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is Mims more what they need right now? I kind
Speaker 1: of think he is.
Speaker 2: I think what I worry about with Mims is that
Speaker 2: is he a little bit too redundant to Taekwon? You know,
Speaker 2: like they're both straight down to Juju. No. I think
Speaker 2: I think Downs is like a true like Welker Edelman
Speaker 2: slot like a shifty right.
Speaker 1: But you can't how are you getting them both on
Speaker 1: the field? Okay, redundant skill set?
Speaker 2: But like but in eleven personnel, Like yeah, you would
Speaker 2: have to probably play a lot of like three by
Speaker 2: ones and stuff like that to have like two slots, yeah,
Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Formationally, he's redundant, not skill set wise, I should play.
Speaker 2: It would be I think you could do it, like
Speaker 2: if you're if you're in the three by one or
Speaker 2: you're in two by two or something like that, and
Speaker 2: you're going four, like you have two slots, right, like
Speaker 2: you have an inside slot and you have an outside.
Speaker 1: And Thornton you just put speed out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that there you can. I think that's fine.
Speaker 2: I would take Downs just because when with Mims, I
Speaker 2: think he separates more on a vertical plane. He's either
Speaker 2: coming across the field or he's going deep vertically up
Speaker 2: the field, Whereas with Downs, I think he's got that
Speaker 2: shifty gear, right, He's got that that jitterbug and I
Speaker 2: just see it that way. But that I think Downs
Speaker 2: is dream right, Yeah, Mims is realistic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then we disagree on Mingo, and I think the
Speaker 2: biggest thing.
Speaker 1: Is, so you were you of Mingo? I have Cedric Tillman. Basically.
Speaker 2: I like Cedric Tillman a lot too. I actually have
Speaker 2: him grated higher than Mingo. But I think Cedric I
Speaker 2: think with Cedric Tillman, you don't get that, you don't
Speaker 2: get the yak. I think Mingo has more yak potential.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I don't mind to jump, all guy,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't mind to.
Speaker 2: Jump Tillman's really good. I think his best asset to
Speaker 2: me is his ability to stop, Like he can get
Speaker 2: up the field vertically, push you vertical and then slam
Speaker 2: and and he killey Ringo could not cover him on
Speaker 2: those come back routes, so that that element of his
Speaker 2: skill set is interesting. I just think Mingo is a
Speaker 2: little bit more of a runaway train with the football,
Speaker 2: and I think that's valuable.
Speaker 1: But I guess I'm more something like, wasn't that the
Speaker 1: whole point of why you signed Juju to get the
Speaker 1: yak right?
Speaker 2: But I think Mingo is a little bit more of
Speaker 2: an outside guy than Juju is. And one of the
Speaker 2: other thing, I know what I'm saying, you got the
Speaker 2: yak guy. Yeah, but everybody can be a yak guy.
Speaker 2: I mean you look at San Francisco, you got like sixteen.
Speaker 1: Okay, so why do you need why do you need whatever?
Speaker 2: Because I think us but because I think the yack guy,
Speaker 2: I think that's how their offense is gonna is gonna function, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I like Timer was yack guy, and so is Gronk.
Speaker 2: Like you have to have you know, you have to
Speaker 2: have both of that.
Speaker 1: But i'd like for right, so they got the yak guy,
Speaker 1: I'd like to see them get a guy that can
Speaker 1: go up and get the football and win against bigger
Speaker 1: physical corners. Like so their offense for a couple of
Speaker 1: years has been all physical separators, no yak, right, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't great. I don't know that shifting to all
Speaker 1: yak is the answer either. I think you want to
Speaker 1: diversified skill sets. So if you have a yak guy
Speaker 1: and then you go out and get a guy like
Speaker 1: Cedric Tillman who can win, you know, physically. I like
Speaker 1: having guys that can do different.
Speaker 2: I mean, Mingo's two hundred and twenty pounds, like, I
Speaker 2: think he can win physically too.
Speaker 1: I just that's not my concern with Mingo.
Speaker 2: We'll get into my concern my my, my take on
Speaker 2: what they think about their receivers right now. Yeah, is
Speaker 2: I truly believe that they feel like Taekwon's going to
Speaker 2: be the separator that Taekwon that's okay under Bill O'Brien
Speaker 2: is gonna I think Tae Kwon. I don't think Taekwon's
Speaker 2: an X, right. I don't think you want to just
Speaker 2: put Taekwon on the boundary, have him go one on
Speaker 2: one and beat press coverage the whole time. I think
Speaker 2: that they're gonna have Bill O'Brien use Taekwon this year
Speaker 2: a little bit like he used Jamison Williams and like
Speaker 2: Davante Smith before that in the Alabamon.
Speaker 1: Jamison Williams role specifically because DeVonta Smith was a little
Speaker 1: more like slot driven and stuff like that. Like what
Speaker 1: they did with Jamison Williams is to me the.
Speaker 2: Role, right, Move him around a little bit, bring them
Speaker 2: in motion, have them run routes from stacks or trips
Speaker 2: alignment to try to get him away from physicality, right,
Speaker 2: just get him away from contact and just turn it
Speaker 2: into a game of tag coming across the field, going
Speaker 2: up the field, and allow Mac, which I think is
Speaker 2: probably Mac's best throw is those touchdeep balls, right that
Speaker 2: he throws a pretty deep ball. It's I'm not talking
Speaker 2: about the velocity throws. I'm not talking about fitting into
Speaker 2: a window twenty five yards down the field. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about the rainbows. Right, let him drop it in the bucket.
Speaker 2: I think he makes that throw really well. Slot verticals, yeah,
Speaker 2: verticals from the slot motion plays over routes like things
Speaker 2: like that. I think that that's his best throw in
Speaker 2: his bag, So I think that's what they're gonna try
Speaker 2: to get out of Taekwon, which means that if Taekwon's
Speaker 2: playing more like a Z or a flanker role where
Speaker 2: he's moving around, and then Juju is kind of that
Speaker 2: f slot receiver that's just sitting in the slot. You
Speaker 2: need an X and I think they feel like they
Speaker 2: have one for the time being with Devonte Parker. But
Speaker 2: Devanta Parker doesn't have a long term future in New England.
Speaker 2: So whether it's Mingo, it's Tillman, I think those are
Speaker 2: the two guys that I feel comfortable with on Day two.
Speaker 2: And it's not a deep X class. I don't think
Speaker 2: a lot of x's are gonna go off the board
Speaker 2: very quickly, but they might look at it and say, look,
Speaker 2: there's a million shifty slot receivers in this draft. There's
Speaker 2: only four or five X guys, and we're gonna just
Speaker 2: grab one of the four or five X guys.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm, I'm, and then we'll get the slot
Speaker 1: guy later.
Speaker 2: Tomorrio Tuglas, I'm talking to a little bit out of
Speaker 2: both sides of my mouth because I've been anti Quentin Johnson,
Speaker 2: but I've been t Quintin Johnson because I don't want
Speaker 2: them to take Quentin Johnson at fourteen. We're talking about
Speaker 2: them taking a receiver at forty six.
Speaker 1: Quint Johnson in the second round, right, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: he's better than like, he's better than Tillman.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, he's better than both these guys.
Speaker 1: But he's gonna go in the first round because some
Speaker 1: team's going to see the size. I so my issue
Speaker 1: on Mingo by the way, because he never got to it.
Speaker 1: My issue on Mingo it maybe this is dumb. I
Speaker 1: just see it as a red flag. That is the
Speaker 1: most skill position friendly offense right that lane Kiffen runs
Speaker 1: down there. You have to try to not put up
Speaker 1: numbers in that offense. I don't know, fifty one catches
Speaker 1: for eight hundred yards.
Speaker 2: It was seventeen yards per catch Though'll be fair. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but big play guy, but that's it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And is it going to be a big play offense
Speaker 1: or is it going to be the Bill O'Brien death
Speaker 1: by a thousand paper cuts offense?
Speaker 2: I think I think, ideally, I think it's going to
Speaker 2: be similar to. I think it's gonna be a little
Speaker 2: bit of both, like because I think it's more of
Speaker 2: like a hybrid between a death by a thousand paper
Speaker 2: cuts in the Alabama offense, right. I think that that's
Speaker 2: where they're ideally going with this, And my estimation is
Speaker 2: that the high volume area will be the middle of
Speaker 2: the field. But every once in a while, if you
Speaker 2: got the safeties coming down, you've got the linebackers and
Speaker 2: the slots, everybody's focused on the middle of the field,
Speaker 2: You're gonna get some one on ones for those guys
Speaker 2: on the end.
Speaker 1: But isn't that why Taekwon's here? Isn't that why my
Speaker 1: Kasiki's here? I just I s I you're very nord.
Speaker 1: I brought Kasiki up in that, aren't you.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: No, I just I think Ksiki is somebody that you
Speaker 2: hope is going to stretch the seam to get the
Speaker 2: safeties off of treachery.
Speaker 1: I just think that I see a guy that's big.
Speaker 1: He's fast, but he's not fast, right.
Speaker 2: A four to four six at two twenty is moving, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's still it's and his game speed is really good.
Speaker 1: I just I wish he ran the agility drills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's with it a little better.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna be an agility guy.
Speaker 1: That's but that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: So, Okay, he's big, he's a big, fast, physical outside receiver.
Speaker 2: He's Nikhil Harry, but he's but he's a steper two faster.
Speaker 1: All right, That's what I did. That's exactly what I
Speaker 1: didn't want to say.
Speaker 2: But he's a stepper two faster. If Nikhil Harry had
Speaker 2: another gear, then he's a different prob.
Speaker 1: But does a step er two faster fix all of
Speaker 1: the formational alignment assignment issues? That a guy that the
Speaker 1: guys like that, not just ni Keel, guys like that
Speaker 1: keep having here.
Speaker 2: Asked me after I see what Bill O'Brien does. Okay,
Speaker 2: so Bill O'Brien is gonna be is going to be
Speaker 2: a wild card.
Speaker 1: I do kind of have to keep reminding myself of that.
Speaker 1: And that's fair, And that's I'm not saying. I think
Speaker 1: one hundred last year would Mingo? Would you be as
Speaker 1: high on Mingo for them?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I liked Alec Pearce, and I think
Speaker 2: that Alec Pearce was a little bit better of a
Speaker 2: ball winner down the field, like he was a little
Speaker 2: bit more of that DeVante Parker contested catch guy than
Speaker 2: Mingo is. But I did really like his game for
Speaker 2: similar reasons. You know, a guy that that could get
Speaker 2: off press, I could get up the field and it
Speaker 2: was really good play speed. He was a little bit more.
Speaker 2: He had that above the rim mentality that I don't
Speaker 2: know if Mingo fully died. I think Mingo is a
Speaker 2: better yeat.
Speaker 1: Guy, but I just I don't know. I see this
Speaker 1: guy and I just think, all right, they're gonna have
Speaker 1: him running quick slants and off coverage and hitches and like,
Speaker 1: I just don't want to do that. Again, that's not
Speaker 1: his game, right, So that that's my he's that's my
Speaker 1: issue with Jonathan.
Speaker 2: He's like catching a screen or he's catching a vertical right,
Speaker 2: and there's.
Speaker 1: Like they have not hit on one of those guys.
Speaker 2: That's all right, let's take some of these calls and
Speaker 2: then we'll get to some of the other things on
Speaker 2: the agenda. Patty, what's up, Patty, what's up? Guys? Thanks
Speaker 2: for hanging on.
Speaker 3: Great discussion as always, Alex, I got having a little
Speaker 3: fired up durned to you, and I'm not trying to
Speaker 3: fire you guys up, but I might do the same thing.
Speaker 3: I got a I got a couple of both predictions,
Speaker 3: one NFL draft related, one Patriots draft related, and I
Speaker 3: got a a question regarding me a prospect.
Speaker 1: To hang on first, real quick, what did you how
Speaker 1: did you get him fired up? During pus He said
Speaker 1: you wanted to take Mozzie Smith in the first round.
Speaker 1: Oh that was a good one. Yeah, that's a good
Speaker 1: one going. Yeah, I would thank you, Patty.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, No, I didn't say I wanted I just
Speaker 3: said I could see them doing that like one hundred
Speaker 3: percent of heaven. What I've what I've been thinking is like,
Speaker 3: what's going to annoy the piss out of me more
Speaker 3: than anything? And that's generally what the Patriots do is gap.
Speaker 2: Nothing moves the needle more.
Speaker 1: He's pretty athletic.
Speaker 3: But here's my bold prediction for the Patriots draft, and
Speaker 3: that is they will pick one tight end at pick
Speaker 3: number forty six, and it's going to be Luke spoon
Speaker 3: Maker who they're going to reach for. With Darnel Watson
Speaker 3: and still on the board. Ready for this, Alex, I
Speaker 3: know this is going to fire you up. Okay, my
Speaker 3: old NFL draft prediction is we will be drafted by
Speaker 3: the Arizona Cardinals and by the end of the year
Speaker 3: he will win the starting and they're gonna deal freaking
Speaker 3: Kyler Murray.
Speaker 1: No, he said Stets and Bennett's gonna get drafted by
Speaker 1: the Cardinals. Murray.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, okay, Patty, that's you said. It was bold, right?
Speaker 2: It is? He a ud F A like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Stets and Bennett's getting drafted, Patty.
Speaker 1: There were reports that teams have significant non football concerns
Speaker 1: about him. I also happened at football concerns.
Speaker 2: About him very much, A lot of football concern.
Speaker 1: Now, look, the Cardinals aren't very good at this. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's new. It's a new group running the
Speaker 1: show there, so who knows. But I I don't get
Speaker 1: Stets and Ben Stets and Bennett hype like Max dug
Speaker 1: In is a better version of the same player who
Speaker 1: will be on the board the same point, I would not.
Speaker 1: It's Stets and Bennett's like I think Stets Bennett's the
Speaker 1: same age as Mac. Yeah, I would not touch ST's
Speaker 1: and Bennet with a ten foot Thanks for the.
Speaker 2: Call, Patty. We appreciate you real quick.
Speaker 4: Real quickly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just if And here's another guy I'm intrig bye,
Speaker 3: Bryce ford Wheaton. If he hits the ceiling, how good
Speaker 3: can he be? And do you guys have a player
Speaker 3: tom for him? That's a guy.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Patty. Yeah, that's a So this is
Speaker 2: a good conversation too.
Speaker 1: If Bryce ford Wheaton hits his ceiling, don't don't be ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm gonna use the one. It's not my
Speaker 2: comp Eric Galca told us Metcal. Oh my god, no,
Speaker 2: how's that not the ceiling? Because he doesn't move like
Speaker 2: DK Metcalf. Bryce Ford Wheton's forty and his whole combine
Speaker 2: blows my mind even more than Darnell Washington because when
Speaker 2: I watch Bryce Ford Wheaton, it looks like he's running
Speaker 2: in quick with freaking you know, ankle weights wrapped around
Speaker 2: his legs like what. He does not move like DK.
Speaker 2: DK is a freaking shot out of cannon, you know,
Speaker 2: train commuter rail going up up Route one like that?
Speaker 2: This is not nice.
Speaker 1: Why are there trains on Root one?
Speaker 2: I don't know where did I don't know where I
Speaker 2: was going with that price for and I can't believe
Speaker 2: that he tested as well as I don't see that
Speaker 2: kind of speed with him on film. I don't think
Speaker 2: he plays to it at all. Like maybe he's a
Speaker 2: he's a good guy in spandex at the combine, But
Speaker 2: do you when you watch him on film, do you
Speaker 2: really see a four three eight guy?
Speaker 1: No, but I don't think of him as slow.
Speaker 2: He's not slow, but like his game is like back shoulders,
Speaker 2: high points like that, Like he wears coverage. He doesn't
Speaker 2: run away from anybody.
Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of weird. You're gonna hate this
Speaker 1: even more now when I say this. Okay, I was
Speaker 1: watching him as a given. You probably when you watch him,
Speaker 1: you probably only watch him as a receiver. I'm not
Speaker 1: surprised he this Your minds is blown when you watch
Speaker 1: him cover punts, you see the four three eight.
Speaker 2: So but that's so, But that that tells me that
Speaker 2: he's overthinking it as a receiver, right.
Speaker 1: Right, So again we're talking about him hitting his ceiling.
Speaker 1: We're not talking about guaranteed who's gonna be Yeah, And
Speaker 1: this is kind of the comp with DK Metcalf, And
Speaker 1: this is what I think the Seahawks did really well
Speaker 1: with him they kind of put him out there and said,
Speaker 1: just go just run, right, if a team can simplify
Speaker 1: it for him and allow him to just go, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's going to look a lot, a lot fast, And
Speaker 1: he did it West Virginia. His route treat at West
Speaker 1: Virginia was expansive. Maybe he didn't laboring, maybe he didn't
Speaker 1: run all the routes. Great, but it reminds me so much.
Speaker 2: Of Darnell Washington, just at a different position. Where Darnell
Speaker 2: Washington runs this ridiculous forty at six seven two sixty.
Speaker 2: But then when you watch him on film, he looks
Speaker 2: he's slow like he it takes he's leggy, like it
Speaker 2: just takes him a long time to get up to
Speaker 2: a top speed to the point where I don't know
Speaker 2: how much of a factor his burst really is. Like
Speaker 2: that's to me, I think we get you know, there's
Speaker 2: long speeding in this burst, right, And I think burst
Speaker 2: off the line of scrimmage for receivers is way more
Speaker 2: important than what you hit when you're forty yards down
Speaker 2: the field because it's timing right. It's all yeah.
Speaker 1: But again, I would just say, if a team can
Speaker 1: figure out a way to true I think the physical
Speaker 1: tools are there, I do. I think they don't show
Speaker 1: up on tape because he's fighting himself a lot. But
Speaker 1: if he gets the right coaching and he gets an
Speaker 1: assystem where it's just sort of, hey, just go win physically,
Speaker 1: nobody's tested better physically than him at the wide receivers.
Speaker 2: So my I know that he's more athletic based off
Speaker 2: the combine. Yeah, but I just I just see like
Speaker 2: Devonte Parker. Okay, So again the question was if he
Speaker 2: totally hits his peak. I think Parker's a better comp
Speaker 2: I think it's I think Parker's his ceiling.
Speaker 1: No, his ceiling's side, and I don't think it is
Speaker 1: no because he's he can be better after the catch.
Speaker 1: He was good after the catch at West Virginia. And
Speaker 1: that's again where you see that athleticism when he gets
Speaker 1: the ball in his hands in the open field that
Speaker 1: he can start just sort of running away from defenders.
Speaker 1: You see that athleticism hit the next level.
Speaker 2: I guess if we're really talking about like blows it
Speaker 2: out of the water ceiling. But Devonte Parker had a
Speaker 2: thousand yard season, like on his resume, a Pro Bowl year,
Speaker 2: That's okay, that's fair I don't know if Prize Fortan
Speaker 2: is ever going to be that. I think you're really
Speaker 2: project a lot.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he look. The teams that should
Speaker 1: be in on Brice Ford Wheaton are the Steelers, Chiefs,
Speaker 1: the Seahawks, these teams that maximize it because he's a
Speaker 1: long way away. Yeah, but it's it's it's like I
Speaker 1: said last year with Treequel, and it's like I'm saying
Speaker 1: with Dwan Jones. The size, the athleticism, there's something there
Speaker 1: and I don't know what it is or to what extent,
Speaker 1: but there's clearly some great natural ability there.
Speaker 2: He looks really good at the combine. That's what's the no.
Speaker 1: But he there's there's flashes too in these games.
Speaker 2: But his flashes are like back shoulders and like in
Speaker 2: high points, like he's a good red zone target, Like
Speaker 2: you throw a back shoulder at that guy, he's freaking.
Speaker 1: There's some flash of him running with the football too.
Speaker 1: They ran some screens to him that he.
Speaker 2: There were a few that I saw that that were decent.
Speaker 2: But I'm not getting like all hot and bothered by him.
Speaker 1: It's he's he's John. This to me sounds like how
Speaker 1: you were describing Jonathan Mingo.
Speaker 2: I guess he's day three Jonathan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Mago's a little further along. He's a little
Speaker 1: more developed, but it's the same guy. I just again,
Speaker 1: I look at the physical testing. I look at the
Speaker 1: I look at the physical testing. I look at the measurements.
Speaker 1: I look at what he did in the flashes. Not
Speaker 1: saying I'd take him in the top one hundred, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: They have four six round picks. They want to take
Speaker 2: him in the sixth round, and if he's the only
Speaker 2: receiver that they take, then we have a problem.
Speaker 1: Well, they're gonna like him. They're gonna really like him.
Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with the fact anything of
Speaker 1: him as a receiver, because he tested out the combine,
Speaker 1: he was on their team at the Shrine Bowl, and
Speaker 1: he's really good at covering punts.
Speaker 2: If they take him, that's why. But it's a sixth
Speaker 2: round player, all right. Anyways.
Speaker 1: But if he maxes out, if he maxes out, he's
Speaker 1: a thousand yard receiver.
Speaker 2: Maybe.
Speaker 1: If he maxes out, if a team finds the role
Speaker 1: and coaches him up, if he gets the Pittsburgh Steelers
Speaker 1: treatment like that, the A plus.
Speaker 2: Receiver in one breakout season. He's not gonna be a
Speaker 2: consistent thousand yard receiver. It's not like he's gonna have
Speaker 2: five thousand yard seasons by the time.
Speaker 1: That usually comes down to like health and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know the tight end point that Patty made
Speaker 2: about Schoonmaker over Darnell Washington. I think he's onto something.
Speaker 2: And I know he's a Michigan guy because he's already
Speaker 2: mentioned Mozzie Smith. So he's a Michigan guy. He's onto something.
Speaker 2: But I think he's got the wrong Big ten tight end.
Speaker 1: Oh you you like Laporta.
Speaker 2: I I think it was. Schrager reported this on NFL
Speaker 2: Network that he knows teams have the Porta over Washington.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying every team. I'm saying some teams have.
Speaker 2: I would not be shocked if Sam Laporta is taken
Speaker 2: over Darnell Washington.
Speaker 1: I so, I I can also see them drafting the
Speaker 1: tight end. We don't think they're gonna take ahead of
Speaker 1: tight ends. We think they're gonna take I think it's
Speaker 1: Tucker Craft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1: Actually, I meant to tweet this out this morning.
Speaker 2: I think Schoonmaker's on their board for suremaker because he's
Speaker 2: Shrine Bowl guy and he's a really really good blocker
Speaker 2: and some untapped potential as a receiver. His combine matches
Speaker 2: up to his play speed. Yeah, they just didn't throw
Speaker 2: them the ball.
Speaker 1: So I so I meant to tweet this out this morning.
Speaker 1: I kind of just like jotted down some gut draft predictions.
Speaker 1: We can do all of them if you want, but
Speaker 1: one of them was they're the tight end they take
Speaker 1: is not gonna be one of the guys we've been
Speaker 1: talking about. We've been we've been not like talking talking.
Speaker 2: I think we talked enough about Tucker Kraft to say
Speaker 2: that we talked about him.
Speaker 1: He Yeah, he wouldn't be in the group. I'm thinking
Speaker 1: like Will Mallory, the kid from Penn State, Strange. I
Speaker 1: think his last name is actually Strange. Yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: was thinking more like Davis Allen from Clemson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, yeah, I watched all these guys recently
Speaker 2: just to like round out the tight ends. Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 2: they're gonna reach from Oklahoma is interesting. I do like
Speaker 2: him for that, like six or seventh round. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: he's underside.
Speaker 1: But here's what I think. So those guys who just said, right,
Speaker 1: Mallory Allen. These are like, yeah, fifth, sixth round guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're gonna take one of those guys at the end
Speaker 1: of the fourth round instead of the guys we've been talking.
Speaker 1: Mallory is one of my gut Mallory is interesting well
Speaker 1: because he had the best combine. Yeah, and they love
Speaker 1: the combine now.
Speaker 2: And that speeded. He's not a route runner, like, he's
Speaker 2: not somebody that's gonna break you down at the top
Speaker 2: of the route and get open, but they use them
Speaker 2: a lot on like shallows and like crossing routes at
Speaker 2: different levels and things like that. And he's got he's
Speaker 2: got four or five speed like you can see that
Speaker 2: on film, and he's got some ability to pull away.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: He's an interesting player if they miss out on like
Speaker 2: the wave of tight ends that's gonna go on day
Speaker 2: two and they're kind of stuck, all right. Uh uh Eldred, Eldred,
Speaker 2: what's up? You ready for Quinton Johnson this weekend? In
Speaker 2: the truck? What's up? Good? Hey?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Alex, how you're doing? Yeah? I want him, But
Speaker 4: like I said, I wrote the not mingo. Scuse me, h,
Speaker 4: Gazales if we need a corner, But all, your receiver
Speaker 4: is gonna be going by thirty man, Dave got Jonathan
Speaker 4: Mingo twenty fifth to the site, who has.
Speaker 1: The same probably you No, I have him fifty.
Speaker 2: Six pag.
Speaker 4: NFL network did. Uh? Obviously did?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: And yes I saw that mock. They I think they
Speaker 1: had C. J. Stroud in like the twenties and they
Speaker 1: had Bejon to the Patriots at fourteen.
Speaker 2: What a wild mock? What what else you got? Aldred?
Speaker 4: Well? Just one three? About about about Kelly Ringo? Why
Speaker 4: ain't nobody talking much about my corner is.
Speaker 3: Talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm glad you asked that, actually because I agree
Speaker 2: that not enough people are talking about Kelly Ringo. Who
Speaker 2: and thanks for the call, Aldred.
Speaker 1: Uh, He's the consensus number one corner in this draft
Speaker 1: pretty much throughout the wall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, until Marvin Harrison Junior did what he did. Booked that.
Speaker 2: But like every Marvin Harrison Junior cooked everybody.
Speaker 1: I told you what the ultimate draft strategy is this year? Right,
Speaker 1: I don't know. You take Marvin Harrison and you tell
Speaker 1: Goodell the deal with Oh my god, Kelly's the best
Speaker 1: pick any team could make.
Speaker 2: Kelly Ringo. I think he's interesting for two reasons. One,
Speaker 2: he's definitely one of those guys that fails outside before
Speaker 2: you move him inside or to safety. Some people, well
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying, right, I think you let him
Speaker 2: fail at outside corner first, because his size and speed
Speaker 2: should translate to carrying most vertical route runners. The issue
Speaker 2: is when he gets those dynamic guys that can shift
Speaker 2: on him, he can't stick. So he's got tight hips,
Speaker 2: he doesn't change directions. Well, his agilities were terrible. Backed
Speaker 2: it up right. So he's somebody that I think is
Speaker 2: going to be a extremely high level safety if that's
Speaker 2: where he ends up going, and maybe a matchup corner
Speaker 2: if you want to leave him at corner. But it's
Speaker 2: definitely somebody that's worth talking about, I think for the Patriots,
Speaker 2: because whether he plays safety or a corner, they could
Speaker 2: use a guy at either spot, and he does bring
Speaker 2: some size. Maybe he has a Devin mccordy like career
Speaker 2: or his rookie season. They play him at outside corner
Speaker 2: because that's where they need him the most, and then
Speaker 2: they move them back once they kind of slid that
Speaker 2: spot a little bit more with guys that are better
Speaker 2: natural fits. I don't think he's like a true center
Speaker 2: fielder if he moves to safety, but like I could
Speaker 2: see him being like a Cam Chancellor, like really good
Speaker 2: lockdown on tight ends, bring some extremely physical play to
Speaker 2: the middle of the field, because he is a jacked
Speaker 2: up guy in terms of his body and in terms
Speaker 2: of his frame and he and he's a fast, fast guy.
Speaker 2: So you think about just giving him opportunities to see ball,
Speaker 2: get ball, and just fire out of a cannon. He's
Speaker 2: definitely gonna be an impact player, I think somewhere in
Speaker 2: the NFL.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the other reason he doesn't get talked
Speaker 1: about a lot. If you ask five different people their
Speaker 1: opinions on him, you're gonna get five different answers because
Speaker 1: he's so inconsistent.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean even Tilman gave him a tough time, yeah,
Speaker 2: in that game.
Speaker 1: Basically, what it comes down to is like if he's playing,
Speaker 1: if he played the way he did his best consistently,
Speaker 1: he'd be the number one corner in the Shraft would
Speaker 1: be talking about him his top five pick. But when
Speaker 1: he's not on his game, the drop off is it's
Speaker 1: not like a little bit, it's significant. It completely changes
Speaker 1: the way you have to play defense. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the hesitancy with teams. How much of that is
Speaker 1: just he's young and he's learning. How much of that
Speaker 1: is his attention span? How much of that is is
Speaker 1: this just who he is? So that's I think why
Speaker 1: he gets less attention because there's it's easy to be
Speaker 1: trigger shot with a guy like that. It's easy to
Speaker 1: or it's it's harder to look at a guy like
Speaker 1: that and pound the table for a guy like that,
Speaker 1: because there are plays you can pull up and say,
Speaker 1: what do you pound a table for this guy?
Speaker 2: I mean watching him against Tilman Center Tillman from Tennessee
Speaker 2: last year and watching Tillman just stop on a dime
Speaker 2: and Killey Ringo just bye bye, right, like just continues
Speaker 2: up the field and just accelerate and change directions. It's
Speaker 2: some rough film, and Marvin Harrison Junior basically did the
Speaker 2: same thing against him. But I think it'd be interesting
Speaker 2: because I think he's one of those guys that had
Speaker 2: a lot of first round buzz coming into the year,
Speaker 2: still has some first round buzz now that might end
Speaker 2: up being like then Toby Dean of this draft, right
Speaker 2: that just hangs around and hangs around.
Speaker 1: Well, the Kobe Dean was because of an injury.
Speaker 2: Sure, I guess for a different reason. But at my
Speaker 2: point being, if he was on the board at forty
Speaker 2: six when the Patriots pick on Friday night, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be shocked. Like I wouldn't be totally shocked.
Speaker 1: He's one of those it's one of those things like
Speaker 1: if he's there at forty six, I almost wouldn't take
Speaker 1: him because if he's fallen that far probably reason, right,
Speaker 1: there's a reason. So I if he's the guy that
Speaker 1: he looks like at his best, he should be gone
Speaker 1: well before forty six. If he's still there, then maybe
Speaker 1: he's not really the guy he looks like. It is
Speaker 1: best catch twenty two.
Speaker 2: There you go. He's the stiffness and the agility testing
Speaker 2: that backed up the stiffness that you see on film
Speaker 2: is concerning. All right, one more call here and then
Speaker 2: we're gonna do some draft over unders Manuel, it's up. Hey, Manuel,
Speaker 2: you're there, Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I was working.
Speaker 2: I was sorry, No problem. Quick question.
Speaker 3: I think that our pick is going to come down
Speaker 3: to two Georgia people, and I want to know what
Speaker 3: would be your pick on this? So to me, I
Speaker 3: think we're either going to get Nolan.
Speaker 4: Smith or Broderick Jones right there at fourteen.
Speaker 3: And who do you guys think we would rather.
Speaker 2: Have right there?
Speaker 3: To me, I think it might be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like two good players. I mean, I don't really
Speaker 2: think you could go wrong with either. I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: upset with either guy.
Speaker 1: This is what we did off the top of the show. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: you got to get the tier one player. They're both
Speaker 1: tier one players. But so then you go to position.
Speaker 1: Tackle is a bigger need than edge. I just think
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they might be. I think they're gonna
Speaker 1: have Nolan Smith ahead of Broderick Jones.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have Nolan Smith ahead of Broderick Jones
Speaker 2: on mine. I think the one thing that's a little
Speaker 2: bit misunderstood about Broderick Jones is that this is not
Speaker 2: a ready made day one We are going to play
Speaker 2: him at left tackle, and I think he is and
Speaker 2: not touch it. I'm not saying that he can't play
Speaker 2: as a rookie. I think he will play as a rookie.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that I don't think that he is this flawless,
Speaker 2: like We're not gonna have to worry about that position.
Speaker 2: For ten years type of guy's he's somebody that has
Speaker 2: some developing developing to do. He only played nineteen games
Speaker 2: at Georgia. His pass sets in particular, run blocking wise,
Speaker 2: I'm not concerned about him at all. His pass protection,
Speaker 2: he gets a little bit off balance, a little bit forward, leaner.
Speaker 2: His hand technique needs that refinement, right, He's not a
Speaker 2: master of the arts quite yet, and I think that
Speaker 2: somebody like Adrian Klem, maybe even Joe Kim could like
Speaker 2: help him with the dan fighting and get him there.
Speaker 2: But he gets a little bit off balance. And there's
Speaker 2: some bad film of him pass protecting, especially against guys
Speaker 2: that are a better rushers, right, Guys that he went
Speaker 2: up against in some of the playoff games and some
Speaker 2: of the big games that they played down the stretch
Speaker 2: for Georgia. Some of those guys that we talk about
Speaker 2: as you know, edge guys in this class that he
Speaker 2: played against got him a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: But I think the funny thing is like he's the
Speaker 1: athletic profiles that of a pass blocker right more than
Speaker 1: so I think the better rid there right now. But
Speaker 1: he looks like he should be a better passbocker if
Speaker 1: you just look at the measureables you.
Speaker 2: Will eventually be The one thing that I think really
Speaker 2: makes me feel good about him long term. He's got
Speaker 2: great body control, which means that I think that he
Speaker 2: can he can get his balance and his posture correct
Speaker 2: right and the other he can recover. And he's extremely long. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so he's got long arms, he carries his weight well.
Speaker 2: He has all of the physical abilities to be able
Speaker 2: to develop as a pass protector. He's just not there yet.
Speaker 2: Blue chip prospect, I think so because of the upside. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know if right this very second he's going
Speaker 2: to hit it like. I don't think he's going to
Speaker 2: be one of those guys day one where we're talking
Speaker 2: about him being a lead elite. But I think a
Speaker 2: little bit like Tristan Wharfs, like two or three years
Speaker 2: down the line, we're gonna be like, this is one
Speaker 2: of the best tackles in the lake.
Speaker 1: I just go back to it again. They're both very good,
Speaker 1: but they need to tackle more than they need an
Speaker 1: edge rusher. And at that point it's close enough that
Speaker 1: you should have that conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm fast. I wouldn't be upset with by where
Speaker 2: Rodrick Jones goes because I think that there is some
Speaker 2: conversations out there or on the league that the league
Speaker 2: might not be as high on Broderick Jones as the
Speaker 2: media and some media consensus boards i've seen have have
Speaker 2: him at in the teens at like eighteen or like
Speaker 2: fifteen eighteen range. Yeah, you know, he's not somebody that
Speaker 2: is locked into the top ten by any means. I
Speaker 2: think Paris Johnson and the Cardinals has become the worst
Speaker 2: kept secret in the league. That seems like that's going
Speaker 2: to potentially happen. And then I look at a guy
Speaker 2: like Skoronski who might not be a tackle, but I
Speaker 2: think a team like I look at Chicago at nine, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it okay, he might not be a tackle, but
Speaker 2: he makes the whole line better, right, Like he's a
Speaker 2: Quentin Nelson type of prospect that, yeah he's a guard,
Speaker 2: but he's such a good guard that the whole line
Speaker 2: is easier. You know, their jobs are all easier because
Speaker 2: of Skaransky. So I think that they could still look
Speaker 2: at that and see it's enough value add at the
Speaker 2: offensive line position to take a guy like Skoronsky over
Speaker 2: Broderick Jones. So it's interesting to see her. But I
Speaker 2: love Nolan Smith too. I'd be happy to make all
Speaker 2: right over unders. We're gonna do some draft over unders, Alex.
Speaker 2: You can take us this part of it away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I it's not so much over unders. I
Speaker 1: kind of just wrote this this week. I decided to
Speaker 1: do some first round history draft research and we'll see
Speaker 1: if Evan can nail this. And we're gonna get an
Speaker 1: idea of what a good class or a bad class
Speaker 1: really means. Right, if we say it's a good year
Speaker 1: for a position, bad year for a position in the
Speaker 1: first round, how much does that generally play out? So
Speaker 1: basically we're gonna do I'm gonna give you the position.
Speaker 1: And so this is going back to two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: So this is the thirty two team era, right, some
Speaker 1: of these the records might be different. You go for
Speaker 1: the back the most players taken in each position in
Speaker 1: the first round in that era in a given year. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, start with quarterbacks. Do we think the most
Speaker 1: quarterbacks ever take or not ever? The most quarterbacks taken
Speaker 1: the first round since two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with six.
Speaker 1: It's five. It's been done twice.
Speaker 2: I thought it twenty one was five.
Speaker 1: Twenty one was five, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance,
Speaker 1: Dustin Fields, Mac Jones. It was also done in twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen Baker, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 2: Wow, so dose does classes have some whiffs and some
Speaker 2: really really big hits.
Speaker 1: So quarterbacks maybe not quarterbacks its own thing. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: not a good way to be like, oh, we say,
Speaker 1: you know, we said it was a strong class, and
Speaker 1: it was. And then I'll also, I guess we'll we'll
Speaker 1: end each position like this, just have some fun. Does
Speaker 1: that record get broken this year? Yes?
Speaker 3: Or no?
Speaker 1: Tied or broken?
Speaker 2: It's got a it's got a chance to be tied.
Speaker 1: I think it does. Two.
Speaker 2: I think it's a chance because of Hooker. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say tied. Now my question back to you, Yeah,
Speaker 2: who's the second quarter I think we can all Sharpie
Speaker 2: and Bryce Young to the Carolina Panthers. Who's the second
Speaker 2: quarterback taken in this draft?
Speaker 1: I still think it's c J. Strout. I do it's
Speaker 1: gonna be Will Levis, but I still think it's c J. Stroud.
Speaker 1: So well, it's it's funny you bring that up because
Speaker 1: if you look at you know the history of these
Speaker 1: and there's been this thing about the second pick, right
Speaker 1: Sam Darnold, Zach Wilson, that the group you want to
Speaker 1: be in.
Speaker 2: And I gotta be honest with you, I think that
Speaker 2: the Houston Texans are thinking that exact thing right now.
Speaker 2: Is I think they really I think they also were
Speaker 2: really trying to get Bryce Young.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 2: Adam Schefter had I think the Bears or the Panthers
Speaker 2: GM on a podcast and he said that the Texans
Speaker 2: were in on the number one pick for sure once
Speaker 2: they didn't get Bryce Young. I think they looked at
Speaker 2: it and said, we want Zach Wilson.
Speaker 1: Like not that, I guess.
Speaker 2: I just think, like thet the hottest trend in NFL
Speaker 2: team building right now is get a young quarterback and
Speaker 2: then get one of his college receivers to help him
Speaker 2: make the adjustment.
Speaker 1: The Texans have that on a platter.
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't believe in it, but it's almost like,
Speaker 1: just do it. I don't think anybody would fault them
Speaker 1: if it didn't work, right, like we fault the Jets
Speaker 1: for Zach Wilson because he wasn't the pick. We all
Speaker 1: knew he wasn't the second best quarterback in that track.
Speaker 1: I think if they take CJ. Stroud second and the
Speaker 1: right at JSN later on, Yeah, and he fails, that's
Speaker 1: more about c J. Stroud than the Texans, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, well no, no, the Texans are a dumpster fire.
Speaker 1: So yeah, who knows?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: All right, running back?
Speaker 2: Oh so this is since two thousand and two, which
Speaker 2: is that we're not going back to the days right
Speaker 2: seventeen running in the first Uh, I'm gonna go three.
Speaker 1: It's five, wow five. In two thousand and eight, Okay,
Speaker 1: So NFL team saw the Patriots record breaking offense and said,
Speaker 1: you know what.
Speaker 2: We need running running backs? Milk the clock baby.
Speaker 1: Darren McFadden fourth overall. Jonathan Stewart thirteenth, Felix Jones, Rashad
Speaker 1: So twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, Felix Jones, the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: Rashad Men in Hall of the Broncos, Chris Johnson and
Speaker 1: the Titans.
Speaker 2: Wow. So Chris Johnson is really the only like, really
Speaker 2: good player. No, Jonathan Stewart was pretty good player, that's fair.
Speaker 2: But he was there with that that two headed moss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, McFadden was pretty good. He got hurt.
Speaker 2: He was overdrafted of that group.
Speaker 1: Felix Jones, Rashd Mendenhall, Chris Johnson. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a whiff. Does it get broken this year out?
Speaker 2: Not even close. But there's gonna be two running backs.
Speaker 1: You think there's gonna be two, So all right, that
Speaker 1: was gonna be my follow up win or two. But hypothetically,
Speaker 1: if we were to break that record, just going off
Speaker 1: the big board, Zach Charbonay, Devin A chain Ty J
Speaker 1: Spears are going in the first round to tie it,
Speaker 1: to break it. You're getting Roshawn Johnson in the first round.
Speaker 2: Do you think Jami or Gibbs goes ahead of Bijon
Speaker 2: Because I do think there's gonna be some teams that
Speaker 2: have it that way.
Speaker 1: I think Gibbs is better, but I think the teams
Speaker 1: that love Beijeon really love Beijeon like they're gonna go
Speaker 1: up and get him. So I still have Gibbs as
Speaker 1: my RB one though I do.
Speaker 2: I love the I actually really love the Eagles in Bjeon.
Speaker 2: That's just such a premium, like we don't actually need
Speaker 2: it over the Eagles and we have no one.
Speaker 1: That's what you do when you're in that spot.
Speaker 2: That's what you do, Michelle.
Speaker 1: That's why I had them taking Josh Down's thirtieth overall
Speaker 1: in one of my mock drafts. Same thing.
Speaker 2: They've been sniffing around JSN like kidding me playing then
Speaker 2: and aj BRA.
Speaker 1: That's a complete group, all right. So we talked before
Speaker 1: about how the last couple of years wide receiver they're
Speaker 1: all getting pushed up and up the board. It's the
Speaker 1: most wide receivers taken in the first round six seven.
Speaker 1: You want to guess the year.
Speaker 2: There's recent.
Speaker 1: I'll give you an over under twenty fifteen. I gotta
Speaker 1: go under, so like since twenty fifteen or before twenty
Speaker 1: five since twenty fifteen. It was two thousand and four.
Speaker 1: What Larry Fitzgerald third, Roy Williams seventh, Reggie Williams ninth,
Speaker 1: the Detroit Lions, Lee Evans thirteenth, Michael Clayton fifteenth, Michael
Speaker 1: Jenkins twenty nine for Sean Woods thirty first.
Speaker 2: That is a rough, rough run. Besides, it starts pretty good.
Speaker 1: So well, it's funny because I actually did some research
Speaker 1: for this that year and granted the draft has covered
Speaker 1: totally different now than it was then. People were all
Speaker 1: hot and bothered about that class, talking about it being
Speaker 1: one of the greatest wide receiver class of all time?
Speaker 3: Was it?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't have the second round or
Speaker 1: whatever in front of me, but that, uh, that was
Speaker 1: not the greatest. No, it's not. So six has been
Speaker 1: done like a handful of time.
Speaker 2: Right. But so the Chase class that Chase was that
Speaker 2: twenty one.
Speaker 1: So I remember off the toime I had twenty twenty
Speaker 1: was five, twenty twenty one was six, and then last
Speaker 1: year was five.
Speaker 2: So I think twenty twenty one, right, was the Chase
Speaker 2: class that was six. I think that class has a
Speaker 2: chance to go down as one of the best.
Speaker 1: So they were. They were one shy and I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe a receiver went to the receiver because CD was
Speaker 1: in that.
Speaker 2: Class, right, Yeah, and Justin Jefferson was in that class.
Speaker 1: No, Jefferson Chase weren't the same class. Oh they were,
Speaker 1: you're right, yeah, because Chase sat out the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it was Chase Wattle, DeVante Smith, ceed Lamb.
Speaker 1: No, Jefferson wasn't in that class this year before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's it's Chase Wattle, Smith, Cadarius Tony Rashad Bateman.
Speaker 2: So that you're five, I combined twenty twenty and twenty.
Speaker 1: Which would be the class, and then Elijah Moore went
Speaker 1: thirty fourth, so it almost had it. That is COVID seven.
Speaker 1: Uh does it top tire break this year?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Yeah, not in close? Tight ends four three in two
Speaker 1: with Jeremy Shockey, Daniel Graham and Jeremy Stevens.
Speaker 2: That's not bad.
Speaker 1: It's not a bad class, not bad. And in twenty
Speaker 1: seventeen with O. J. Howard, Evan Ingram and David Joku,
Speaker 1: that one was worse. This is worse. Ingram's come around.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, second contract type thing.
Speaker 1: Does tider broken this one? I think as a shot
Speaker 1: it does.
Speaker 2: It is four three three, So I think Mayor and
Speaker 2: Kincaid are both going in the first round. Right still,
Speaker 2: I think the rest of those guys are top of
Speaker 2: the second round.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you have it coming up short.
Speaker 2: I have it coming up short, but it could I
Speaker 2: think it could tie, Like could Darte Washington or Sam
Speaker 2: Laporta one of those guys sneak in, like yeah, thirty
Speaker 2: first pick, Like maybe it.
Speaker 1: Is a good shot to tie. I don't think it breaks.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna break, but a good tie offensive tackle,
Speaker 1: oh boy. And by the way, so for clarification here,
Speaker 1: I'm going the position they were listed when they were drafted.
Speaker 1: So when we get into like edge and stuff, it's
Speaker 1: how they were listed at the combine. Tackles and guards
Speaker 1: moved around, it's when they were drafted.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say eight.
Speaker 1: It is eight. So two thousand and eight got on
Speaker 1: and it was two thousand and eight. It was same
Speaker 1: year as the running backs the O seven Patriots. Then
Speaker 1: running backs in linemen. Running backs in linemen Jake Long,
Speaker 1: Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Brandon Albert, Gausder, Churlis.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, big, big time bust.
Speaker 1: Jeff OTAs, Sam Baker, Dwayne Brown.
Speaker 2: Oh dang, they had some busts in that class. Yep,
Speaker 2: big time. You've kind of seen a theme here, yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: tire break this year, Paris Johnson, Broder Jones, what do
Speaker 2: we count Are we counting Scaransky as a tackle?
Speaker 1: He was so he's listed to the Combine as a tackle.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the right your I U.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Darnel Wright. I think it's gonna go in the
Speaker 2: first Yeah. I think Anton Harrison has a chance to
Speaker 2: go in the five. Even if you want to put
Speaker 2: Dawan Jones in there. Right now, it's six, you still
Speaker 2: need two tackles just to tie yea.
Speaker 1: So all right? Interior offensive lineman.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my favorite position four?
Speaker 1: It is four. It's happened twice. I bet you think
Speaker 1: this is back with the running backs, right. One was
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen Jonathan Cooper.
Speaker 2: Chanyle Long, Travis Frederick and the other one twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: Key Kenyan Green, Zion Johnson, Tyler Linderbaum. And to tie
Speaker 2: the record with the twenty ninth overall pick was Col Strange.
Speaker 2: How did that work out?
Speaker 1: Do any.
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Technically the guard record was in twenty thirteen, because there's
Speaker 1: a center mixed in there. Do any interior offensive linean
Speaker 1: go in the first round this year?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I think Osias Torrence from Florida
Speaker 2: has a really good chance. I think Avila from TSU
Speaker 2: has a really good chance. I wouldn't I wouldn't roll
Speaker 2: out a center like this is a good center class. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So the Giants don't have a center on their roster
Speaker 2: right now, like period period, So they might take a
Speaker 2: sentence like Michael Schmidz or John Michael John Michael Schmidz.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Whippler from Ohio State.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Timman's good too, Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: All right, defensive tackles, uh six? It is six? You
Speaker 1: know they are? You know they're all.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think I might know this is recent. I
Speaker 2: think I might know the class more than who's all right?
Speaker 1: Give me give me names. I'd be more impressive.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I know it.
Speaker 1: Give me a name that you think is in the class.
Speaker 2: Do you know Atkins?
Speaker 1: No, not that recent, than that much more recent? Okay,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen nineteen Quentin Williams, at Oliver, Christian Wilkins, Dexter Lawrence,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Simmons, Jerry Tillery.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good class.
Speaker 1: That's a good class.
Speaker 2: Hillary is really the only guy that hasn't like, really
Speaker 2: hit out of that.
Speaker 1: And he's still like a serviceable player. It is funny
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Simmons when his lazy though he's probably the
Speaker 1: best player nineteenth. Not only that and only six five
Speaker 1: in the top twenty. Yeah, God, Jeffrey Simmons went nineteenth.
Speaker 1: Doesn't get broken this year?
Speaker 2: I don't think. I think Jaalen Carter might be the
Speaker 2: only one.
Speaker 1: College Cancy might sneak in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't even know what to call him.
Speaker 1: He's he's Brian Breze. Could get in there too, maybe,
Speaker 1: but you're.
Speaker 2: If you're talking, Yeah, he's like a defensive end.
Speaker 1: All right. Edge rushers nine eight, So this is tied
Speaker 1: with tackle for the most of a position ever twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Solomon Thomas Asan Reddick, Derek Barnett, Jonathan Allen, Charles Harris,
Speaker 1: Tac McKinley, Taco Charlton.
Speaker 2: T J. Watt not great besides t J. Watt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, uh oh yeah, you're right now. Jonathan Allen's
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: The other yeah, oh yeah. I think of him more
Speaker 2: as a defense.
Speaker 1: I do too. I guess he tested as an edge
Speaker 1: I was kind of in robot doing this. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, this year we're gonna see eight edge guys.
Speaker 1: You keep talking about this edge class E possible, all right,
Speaker 1: So Will Anderson, Tyree Wilson, Yeah, Miles Nolan Smith, Lucas
Speaker 1: van Ness. You gotta find three more to tie it.
Speaker 1: Keon White.
Speaker 2: Kean White I think could sneak in.
Speaker 1: Okay, uh Uzoma from Kansas State at a bar a
Speaker 1: Will McDonald, Will McDonald I think could get in, all right,
Speaker 1: So that's seven. So you're one short.
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think Haller, Fosky or any
Speaker 2: of those guys gonna So I'm gonna say one. It's
Speaker 2: gonna be one or two short, but it's gonna.
Speaker 1: Push it it is. Yeah. The linebacker one's stupid. I'll
Speaker 1: just tell you it's five. But like DeMarcus Ware counted
Speaker 1: as a linebacker, ies, he's an edge guy, right, But
Speaker 1: that's why edge was created. Right, It's imperfect. It was
Speaker 1: two thousand and five and two thousand and nine, and
Speaker 1: there's not gonna be any in the first round this year. Okay,
Speaker 1: So here's the here's the really interesting in cornerbacks, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with six. It is six. It was in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Yeah, this class didn't exactly pan out. A
Speaker 1: Kuda got traded for fifth round pick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: CJ. Henderson got traded for backup tight end. AJ Terrell
Speaker 1: isn't all pro, and Damon Arnette and Jeff Gladney were
Speaker 1: cut for legal reasons. And uh Noah I in Miami
Speaker 1: has been a healthy.
Speaker 2: Scratch for the last two years. Uh. I think a
Speaker 2: Kudah just in general, is a really good like lesson
Speaker 2: that we actually don't know anything about the draft.
Speaker 1: I think a Couda's more a lesson that the Lions
Speaker 1: aren't good at player development. I'm interested to see him
Speaker 1: in Atlanta this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just that was he was in that category
Speaker 2: of Witherspoon Gonzales.
Speaker 1: I think it was a category above that can't.
Speaker 2: Miss, you know, maybe like more like a Denzel Ward
Speaker 2: just from the end, can't miss prospect, and it just
Speaker 2: fell flat on their faces with.
Speaker 1: All right, so here we go this year because this
Speaker 1: one I think, I said, I think tight end might tie,
Speaker 1: quarterback might tie, this one might break.
Speaker 2: This is six, said six.
Speaker 1: So we've got Gonzales, Witherspoon, Porter in Banks. Those are
Speaker 1: the four locks to go in the first. The rest
Speaker 1: of these guys all of a shot to go in
Speaker 1: the first, but not all of them will Forbes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Forbes going the Forbes in the first. It
Speaker 1: gets us to five. Keeley Ringo no, okay, Cam Smith, yes,
Speaker 1: that gets us to six. Clark Phillips, no, DJ Turner.
Speaker 2: Maybe Pellis Arrow said he's kind of like a sneaky
Speaker 2: first round.
Speaker 1: With the combines. So basically the guys we think are locks,
Speaker 1: then all you need is Clark Phillips, DJ Turner, Keilley
Speaker 1: Ringo will go in the first and so I think.
Speaker 2: Killy Ringo has too many flags with his physical you know,
Speaker 2: his stiffness and things like that. Clark Phillips is like
Speaker 2: five to nine.
Speaker 1: But if a team really wants a slock corner.
Speaker 2: That's like that'd be like if Marcus Jones went in
Speaker 2: the first round. But it's like a pack twelve plays.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Uh, I'm gonna say ties.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna say ties. I think it's gonna break.
Speaker 1: I think teams are gonna get all hot and bothered
Speaker 1: about these corners.
Speaker 2: Just a great class, all right, safety whatever it is,
Speaker 2: it's not breaking this year. Five four Yeah, so it
Speaker 2: was uh seven, Lauran Landry, Michael Griffin, Reggie Nelson, Brandon Merriweather.
Speaker 2: And then in twenty fourteen, listen, I know it didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily like hit hit, but I loved Brandon. I love
Speaker 2: Brandon Merriweather. Brandon Merriweather in London is an all time
Speaker 2: press con and by the way, it will never be taught.
Speaker 1: You talk about Laura in the boom, him and laurn Landry.
Speaker 1: I hope they were on the same senior ball team
Speaker 1: that year, Big bangkock, big bank clock. Yeah, come on
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, Calvin Pryor, ha Clinton Dix, Deon Buchanan,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ward.
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought, haha, Clinton Dix was gonna be like all.
Speaker 1: Pro I did too forever. Yeah, so it doesn't break
Speaker 1: this year, it's just Brian. Brian Branch might be the
Speaker 1: only one that goes in the top fifty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, specialists, Oh my god, two zero, didn't s Sebastian
Speaker 2: Janakowski go in the first.
Speaker 1: Like nineteen ninety six, Sorr, he's two thousand, but still
Speaker 1: so yeah, Yeah, you thought that. You don't think in
Speaker 1: the last twenty years we would remember that kicker and
Speaker 1: thunder Webb in the same round.
Speaker 2: I thought Janikowski was a little bit older than so.
Speaker 2: I thought Janikowski when I first put this together, you said, two,
Speaker 2: I don't know, you don't think we would.
Speaker 1: Have remembered a kicker. I don't, all right, I got one, Morphy.
Speaker 1: I just want to get your temptrono and we'll wrap
Speaker 1: it up. If that works for you. I said, I
Speaker 1: have these these like gut call predictions. I just buy
Speaker 1: or sell. Okay, and I haven't gotten to put this
Speaker 1: out yet. My take for the first round pick, I'm
Speaker 1: on all these shows, when do you think of this player?
Speaker 1: That player? Nobody's asked me what I think they're gonna do?
Speaker 1: What I think? Yeah, it's true. Okay, so we'll do
Speaker 1: the debut.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna do that. Let's go.
Speaker 1: There's too much smoke around Zay Flowers to me to
Speaker 1: write off Zave Flowers. Okay, if that's all just smoke, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they go. Corner, So okay, corner if not
Speaker 1: save Flowers. You said, nobody asked you what you're gonna do,
Speaker 1: and then you caveat it with no. That's my take.
Speaker 2: Direction. My take is corner the player. If there's corner.
Speaker 2: If not save Flowers, Alex Barth are betting your bank
Speaker 2: savings on who.
Speaker 1: Is Banks Deonta Banks? But corner, okay, corner, if not
Speaker 1: say Flowers by or sell? Now what you would do?
Speaker 1: What you think they'll do?
Speaker 2: That's my I guess I'll play the odds and I'll
Speaker 2: say sell. Okay, because there's just too many other players still,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's really focused.
Speaker 1: Multiple offensive tackles drafted in the top one.
Speaker 2: Fifty by the Patriots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are like Patriots specific predictions. Bye bye. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I think that they will draft somebody like a
Speaker 2: Tyler Steam that might break card or tackle over in
Speaker 2: the league. But I think that they're gonna that counts. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, edge and top one hundred. We've discussed this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: edge and top fifty.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's tough because I think it's either
Speaker 2: going to be it's gonna be way earlier than we
Speaker 2: all expect, or it's gonna be like right where we expect.
Speaker 2: And if it is right where, then it's not top fifty.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I you know, I said by on top one hundred,
Speaker 2: I still think that there's a chance that they take
Speaker 2: a guy like Tyres Wheat in the fourth round, you know,
Speaker 2: just like one of their type of guys that they
Speaker 2: worked with at the Shrine Bowl. I'm gonna say, but
Speaker 2: sell on top fifty, I think we're I've kind of
Speaker 2: jazzed up just because I love this edge class and
Speaker 2: if a guy like Tyree Wilson slips or even if
Speaker 2: a Nolan Smith, if they if they can convince themselves
Speaker 2: into it. I like the pick, but I think that
Speaker 2: it's gonna end up being something in the fourth round.
Speaker 1: All Right, we already talked about the tight end one.
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna take a tight end later than
Speaker 1: we expect, and it's gonna be somebody we haven't been
Speaker 1: talking about. Okay, these are the so then I did.
Speaker 1: These are the three positions I think they're gonna take
Speaker 1: higher than we're all talking about. Okay, get ready to
Speaker 1: roll your eyes. Quarterback, higher, higher than we expect quarterback.
Speaker 2: Okay. So the expectation right now is like those one
Speaker 2: eighty picks. I think they're gonna take quarterback and fourth
Speaker 2: round like they always do. I think that they might
Speaker 2: take dtr in the fourth Yeah.
Speaker 1: Running back, and they're gonna take a running back.
Speaker 2: Same thing.
Speaker 1: I think you're gona take a running back in the
Speaker 1: fourth round.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: Fourth rounds fine, but by yourself that they're for running.
Speaker 2: I'm buying it. But the fourth round for running is
Speaker 2: exactly when you should take a running Okay, So let
Speaker 2: me put it this way, hundred percent, like where I
Speaker 2: know they took Damien Harris in the third round, but
Speaker 2: Damien Harris in the third, Remondre in the fourth, Pierre
Speaker 2: Strong in the fourth.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Perfect, So exactly they have one oh seven one seventeen,
Speaker 1: one thirty five and then it jumps like one to
Speaker 1: eighty one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm saying by the end of pick one thirty five,
Speaker 1: they will have taken a running back by yourself, uh,
Speaker 1: defensive lineman, defensive tackle, I think higher and expected, you
Speaker 1: think higher than expect? Yeah, I think that they they
Speaker 1: go for one of these top tier defensive tackles. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sell that, Sell that, okay, Yeah, and then the
Speaker 1: ones I think lower and expected offensive tackle.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna buy that.
Speaker 1: Okay. I think they could wait till seventy six.
Speaker 2: I like that third fourth round double dip like they
Speaker 2: did with the corners last year. Safety higher lower lower, Yeah. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: tight end all right, we're already kind of discuss that.
Speaker 2: And if they don't take Zay Flowers wide receiver, oh,
Speaker 2: take za Flowers are taking a wide receiver until the
Speaker 2: sixth round.
Speaker 1: Yep. That's that's what I've been trying to tell you people.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, if they do that, can it be Tomorrio
Speaker 2: Douglas because at least it's a fun six.
Speaker 1: You need to Mario Douglas or Justin Shorter to whatever
Speaker 1: kind of receiver they want.
Speaker 2: So your your mortgage, your your life savings is on
Speaker 2: Deontay Banks.
Speaker 1: No, but that's the guy I think is most likely.
Speaker 2: I just said, what's what's your life savings on it?
Speaker 2: You have to put your life saving break down?
Speaker 1: No, you can't say that. I think you're a trade
Speaker 1: down name. I feel more confident that they're going to
Speaker 1: take a trade down the name play all right.
Speaker 2: Name a player that is you're most likely to take.
Speaker 2: Take it with their first pick in the draft. Life
Speaker 2: savings is on it, It's all right.
Speaker 1: I think it's Deontay Banks. But I'm like ten percent
Speaker 1: sure of that. But that's more percent sure than I
Speaker 1: am of any other player.
Speaker 2: We're all ten percent sure of any of this.
Speaker 1: All right, Deontay Banks.
Speaker 2: If I had to put my life savings on it,
Speaker 2: which is not much, let me tell you. But if
Speaker 2: I had to put my life savings on it, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say, Zay, Yeah, I mean I I life savings
Speaker 2: on it. There's just there's just enough smoke. Yeah, they
Speaker 2: worked with him at the Shrine Bowl. I think they
Speaker 2: wanted to work with him at the Shrine Bowl. They
Speaker 2: brought him in for the extended visit with Bill O'Brien
Speaker 2: that I don't know if there's a single first round
Speaker 2: caliber player that they know more about right than Zay Flowers.
Speaker 2: So they have a better background on than Zay Flowers.
Speaker 2: There's just nobody else at the Shrine Bowl that is
Speaker 2: worthy of a really probably a top fifty pick quite frankly,
Speaker 2: sorry Eric, but I I just feel like there's there's
Speaker 2: nobody else that they have done as much homework on
Speaker 2: in the top of the draft. If I had to
Speaker 2: take Zay Flowers the field, I'm definitely taking the field.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, I had to take one player, I
Speaker 2: think it's.
Speaker 1: I was between Banks and Flowers. So now I'm glad
Speaker 1: I said Banks, as we there you go, who would
Speaker 1: you take? Let's close it out like this, because we
Speaker 1: do the whole thing about my whole thing right about.
Speaker 1: Nobody cares what we would do. It's what they're gonna do.
Speaker 1: Who would you take? Forget their trends, they forget their
Speaker 1: say Flowers, Yeah, I think i'd take what I think
Speaker 1: I'd still take one of the corners. I I think
Speaker 1: the corners are they I'm sick of watching them get
Speaker 1: get beat by Stefan Diggs. I want a true shutdown corner.
Speaker 2: That's very fair, and I think there's definitely something to
Speaker 2: be said for that. We all understand what it's deefon Gilmour,
Speaker 2: what a Darrell Reeve is a ty lock? And do
Speaker 2: for their defense?
Speaker 1: I well, wait, is Paris? Are we considering Paris Johnson?
Speaker 1: No shot on the board?
Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals are taking him somewhere.
Speaker 1: Okay, so three eight, I would say Paris Johnson if
Speaker 1: he was there. I really like Paris Johnson.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 1: I'm sprinting, I have to wrap. Yeah, But I think
Speaker 1: the Cardinals are trapped at three. I kind of feel
Speaker 1: that way too in the last couple of days, started
Speaker 1: to feel that.
Speaker 2: Way because nobody is dying to trade up for one
Speaker 2: of these quarterbacks right now. And I think they're trapped
Speaker 2: at three, and I think they end up just taking
Speaker 2: Paris Johnson at three.
Speaker 1: Will Anderson so good, and it's it's john and Gann
Speaker 1: is a defensive coach. I know you don't have a
Speaker 1: quarterback this year to protect anyway, right Kyler. I'm not
Speaker 1: complain it's hurt.
Speaker 2: How long are we giving Jonathan Cannon, Well.
Speaker 1: He's got to pick, assuming he's gonna have the Ye.
Speaker 1: It's like Kevin kneeling and in Happy Gilmore. Remember it's
Speaker 1: like focus clarity. Hey, whatever, it's bad, it's so bad
Speaker 1: it teams that you. Will Anderson should be the first
Speaker 1: non quarterback off the board. Yeah, Willy Anderson should be.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Christian Gonzales should be the second
Speaker 1: defensive player taken.
Speaker 2: Okay over Jailing Carter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, should be.
Speaker 2: Not will be is gonna take Weatherspoon first in the corner.
Speaker 1: That would be hilarious to think they are get like
Speaker 1: gonzoals fall the fourteen.
Speaker 2: So this is what I'm gonna wrap it on. I've
Speaker 2: workshop this with you a little bit, and I really
Speaker 2: feel this way. I do not think the Patriots football
Speaker 2: personnel department cares one iota about what I am about
Speaker 2: to say. Okay, but I think and I'm just talking
Speaker 2: for me. I I'm not saying that I've heard this
Speaker 2: or anything like that. Strictly talking from my gut feeling
Speaker 2: about things. I think that there is a general sentiment
Speaker 2: that this draft needs to create some buzz. And I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about buzz like they need to take Will
Speaker 2: Levis right, like I'm talking this draft needs to take
Speaker 2: some get some buzz going because they got the football
Speaker 2: got its draft last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they got cold.
Speaker 2: Strange and they got the corners that they want and
Speaker 2: they got Taekwon like they got their draft last year.
Speaker 2: This draft, to me feels a lot like the twenty
Speaker 2: one draft where whoever mister Craft walks onto the field
Speaker 2: on Friday with to present to the media and do
Speaker 2: the whole you know, ceremonial jersey on the on Ngele
Speaker 2: Stadium field. That has to be somebody that the fan
Speaker 2: base can go out tomorrow and buy their jersey at
Speaker 2: the Patriots pro shop. Somebody that is going to generate
Speaker 2: some excitement going into training camp, like the Patriots have
Speaker 2: a wait a seton and they have this player now,
Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, we're starting to cook with
Speaker 2: some gas. Right. The only two guys in this draft
Speaker 2: that do that for me are JS Enters A Flowers. Now,
Speaker 2: I was surprised that a lot of people on PU
Speaker 2: and some people emailed in saying that Corner does that
Speaker 2: for them, that like a really good shutdown corner like
Speaker 2: a Revis type, like a Gilmour type, excites them.
Speaker 1: I think it does.
Speaker 2: It's fun to watch. I think as we look at
Speaker 2: the teams these people grew up watching, it makes a
Speaker 2: lot of sense.
Speaker 1: We've all seen it.
Speaker 2: But I think that the as much as the Patriots
Speaker 2: picking high in the first round at fourteen, as much
Speaker 2: as it makes it feel like a trench pick, I
Speaker 2: just don't think that even if it's like a big
Speaker 2: name tackle, even if it's Broderick Jones, no one's buying
Speaker 2: a Broderick Jones jersey, no offense to Broderick Jones. It's
Speaker 2: an offensive lineman. No one's gonna walk walk around unless
Speaker 2: it's ten years from now and he's Matt Lte and
Speaker 2: he's going into the Patriots Hall of Fame, and you
Speaker 2: start to like the player, like it's not gonna happen overnight.
Speaker 2: I think that there has There is a little bit
Speaker 2: of a push, and again it's just a gut feeling.
Speaker 2: There is a little bit of a push to generate
Speaker 2: some buzz coming out of this weekend, just because I
Speaker 2: think that that level of excitement not only gets fans
Speaker 2: in the seats and gets an interest back in the
Speaker 2: team and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I also
Speaker 2: think that that confidence in that level of excitement exudes
Speaker 2: into the room a little bit. And right now, other
Speaker 2: than Bill O'Brien being back in the building, I don't
Speaker 2: know if there's something that this locker room can look
Speaker 2: at and say we're getting somewhere now, like we're we
Speaker 2: could win Yere but we believe we're buying into this.
Speaker 2: They need to pick that makes people buy into the
Speaker 2: program again. And Matthew Judon went on NFL Network, I
Speaker 2: think it was and said Quentin Johnston, I don't think
Speaker 2: it was a mistake that he named a receiver. I'm
Speaker 2: not Quentin Johnson guy every but he knows that that's
Speaker 2: Judan's opinion, right, But I don't think it's a total
Speaker 2: mistake that he named a receiver and he mentions things
Speaker 2: like this like we need somebody that's gonna bring our
Speaker 2: offense to that next level. It's gonna bring some excitement
Speaker 2: to our offense and things like that. I don't think
Speaker 2: that that can be totally lost because football might not
Speaker 2: care about it from a position standpoint, but the general
Speaker 2: I don't know that the bravado of the locker room,
Speaker 2: right like, just the general confidence in that locker room.
Speaker 2: That's a factor because I look at teams and I
Speaker 2: and I know we're really up against it, but I
Speaker 2: look at teams like the Bruins right now, that team
Speaker 2: has one hundred buy in from up and down the roster.
Speaker 2: They're there, their vibes are immaculate. It's off the charts,
Speaker 2: and that's why they're They can take Patrice Bergon out
Speaker 2: of the lineup and they're still winning, right like that.
Speaker 2: That's why is because everybody is pulling the rope in
Speaker 2: the same direction, and that's where the Patriots to get.
Speaker 1: I think Ed Nelman and that twenty twenty one, we
Speaker 1: saw firsthand how excited those guys were for Mac Jones,
Speaker 1: right for the journey he was on as a rookie
Speaker 1: and kind of stepping in the spotlight and becoming the
Speaker 1: NFL player. I'm not saying that they weren't like that
Speaker 1: with Cole Strange. I think a lot of the linemen
Speaker 1: really were. But it's it's different that just the nature
Speaker 1: of the position. It's different you were a receiver. I
Speaker 1: think we saw last year how excited guys were for
Speaker 1: Taekwon Thornton right when he got back from the injury,
Speaker 1: had that game in Cleveland. I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: what you're describing. Ye, a rookie can be a guy
Speaker 1: to rally around. The one thing I'll add to what
Speaker 1: you said. You kind of talked about the external element
Speaker 1: of it. Won two playoff games in the last four years,
Speaker 1: haven't won one. Only one of them has been at home.
Speaker 1: You're on the verge of potentially having hit the reset button.
Speaker 1: They only have I think it's thirty five players under
Speaker 1: contract beyond it for twenty twenty four. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: they got a decision looming on MAC. You've got guys
Speaker 1: core players Matthew Judon, Kyle Duggar, josh U j Ramandrie Stevenson,
Speaker 1: Mike Wenwindo, those contracts are coming up. If it doesn't
Speaker 1: go well this year, they are set up very well
Speaker 1: next year to blow the whole thing up. Hit a
Speaker 1: full reset. And for the guys in this court, and
Speaker 1: by the way, the coaches too. Yeah, you don't want
Speaker 1: your group reset on. This is your group, that's your boys,
Speaker 1: that's who you're with, that's your room. They've got to
Speaker 1: give this group a chance. This is the last chance
Speaker 1: this group has to make an impression, and it's up
Speaker 1: to the draft staff, the coaches, the front offs personnel
Speaker 1: to give this group every asset possible to make that
Speaker 1: final argument as to why they should move forward with
Speaker 1: this core rather than hit reset.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So that's why I I as much as I
Speaker 2: don't absolutely love this receiver class either, that's why I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't rule out receiver by any means, because that's
Speaker 2: just that's the pick that brings some excitement back to
Speaker 2: the team both internally and externally, which I think is
Speaker 2: more a factor for full ball obviously internally. So Alex
Speaker 2: and I are we unfortunately are gonna have to go
Speaker 2: our separate ways for the actual draft itself this year,
Speaker 2: which is which is bumming me out a little bit.
Speaker 2: But we're gonna be back on Patriots Catch twenty two
Speaker 2: I think on Thursday next week at the normal time
Speaker 2: where we're going to recap the entire draft from one
Speaker 2: to round seven. We might be here for like six
Speaker 2: hours morel So just prepare yourself up for that. But
Speaker 2: it was just a taste, but that's that's what we're
Speaker 2: gonna be doing. So back on Thursday, I will be
Speaker 2: on the live Draft shows this weekend Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Speaker 2: here on Patriots dot com. Alex, I'm sure you're doing
Speaker 2: stuff with that.
Speaker 1: I we got to see what happens with the Celtics,
Speaker 1: but at real Alex Barth on Twitter, I'll have updates there.
Speaker 2: Awesome. So we'll see you guys next week. We'll actually
Speaker 2: see you. Today was just audio, but we'll see you
Speaker 2: guys next week and happy Draft. Thanks for listening, everybody.
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