WEBVTT - Frank Michael Smith: Origins

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<v Speaker 1>Break was breaking down all the biggest NBA storylines. Your

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<v Speaker 1>child So the heat Check, the Heat Check?

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<v Speaker 2>What's trist a Cracker?

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<v Speaker 1>The best podcast covering all the drama around the association?

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<v Speaker 2>Drank Michael Smith aka Rhino, one of the biggest fucking

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<v Speaker 2>names in the basketball content space. One point seven milli

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<v Speaker 2>followers on TikTok, one point three milli followers on YouTube,

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<v Speaker 2>gets more views than first take on YouTube, gets more

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<v Speaker 2>views than your favorite fucking morning show. Why because he

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<v Speaker 2>is a straight beast. Similarly massive followings on other social

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<v Speaker 2>media platforms as well. He has been grinding making straight

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<v Speaker 2>to camera video since twenty ten. That is a long

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<v Speaker 2>fucking time. This man's been in the internet game since

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<v Speaker 2>longer than I think I even knew the Internet social

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<v Speaker 2>media exists. He is basically my role model when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to content. Doesn't know this. I'm about to drop

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<v Speaker 2>some info on him. One of the very first videos

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<v Speaker 2>that I saw on TikTok that was highly successful in

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<v Speaker 2>the sports space that I sent to my producer and said,

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<v Speaker 2>this man is crushing, we need to diagnose what he does.

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<v Speaker 2>Was this man, Frank Michael Smith. I have been following

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<v Speaker 2>you since the real reason Russell Westbrook playd so hard

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<v Speaker 2>in the spring of twenty twenty. Frank Michael Smith.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that you just set the record for the intro.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go. I'm fired up right now. Sometimes you need

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<v Speaker 1>to hear it, Trista.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, like you can do the intro later, but like,

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<v Speaker 2>who knows what the intro is really going to be? Right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>who knows?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? That was beautiful. Thank you. I'm ready to

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<v Speaker 1>dive into it. Yeah, you put the twenty ten number

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<v Speaker 1>out there. That makes me feel old at this point.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was grind. I was one of the first

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<v Speaker 1>people on YouTube. I was in two thousand and eight

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<v Speaker 1>in middle school making highlight videos and like people didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know YouTube yet.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what's so crazy is the space at that point

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<v Speaker 2>was not as saturated as it is now. And what's

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating to me about your journey is that a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of YouTubers that are huge they got huge because of

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<v Speaker 2>when they started, but it was but you didn't, Like

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<v Speaker 2>you got huge through persistence. So what do you think

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<v Speaker 2>was the difference between what you did then and what

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<v Speaker 2>you did now? And like how different do you think

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube is now from when you started?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, it's so much different. So back then,

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<v Speaker 1>I remember I used to do these highlight videos, so

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<v Speaker 1>it would be like Lebron James Ultimate Highlight Mix, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you dig hard enough, you still might find one.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not under my name, but you might find one.

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<v Speaker 1>I was rarely ever in the actual videos. They were

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<v Speaker 1>just like you know, highlight compilations, and they I had

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<v Speaker 1>a cool soundtrack on there, which, by the way, is

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<v Speaker 1>like the easiest way to start hating a song is

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<v Speaker 1>to put it in your video. You have to listen

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<v Speaker 1>to it like seventy five times. So I just crushed

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite songs. But anyway, it was all about search.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew people were gonna search Lebron James, so I

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<v Speaker 1>would make his highlight mix and it would get views.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, as a thirteen year old kid, getting

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<v Speaker 1>like one hundred thousand views was amazing. It was like

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<v Speaker 1>almost felt impossible, but it was happening. And now it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's so much more sophisticated. It's not really

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<v Speaker 1>about search anymore. It's so much more it's it's probably

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<v Speaker 1>a better system. Now it's about watch time, loyalty, all

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<v Speaker 1>these other things. But I mean, at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day, it's still about like, hey, do people watch

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<v Speaker 1>and like your videos? It's not that complicated.

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<v Speaker 2>Well in discovery too. I think the thing that's always

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<v Speaker 2>been interesting to me as someone who came like you

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<v Speaker 2>from you know, anonymity, right, Like wasn't I wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>college athlete. I didn't get plopped into the system where

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<v Speaker 2>you get pushed. So discovery has always been something fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>to me. How do you think if you were to

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<v Speaker 2>start a YouTube pay today, you could take it to

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<v Speaker 2>zero to viral differently than what you do now, Like

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<v Speaker 2>if you were to do it in a different way, I'm.

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<v Speaker 1>Not sure I would do it in a different way.

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<v Speaker 1>I could go from zero again. But it's it all

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<v Speaker 1>comes down to value at the end of the day.

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<v Speaker 1>And you'll hear people talk about this and it's like

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty broad stroke to paint here, But the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the day, like are you giving someone something interesting?

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<v Speaker 1>Like that's what you do on this podcast. People like

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<v Speaker 1>your podcast because you deliver value, Like you're funny, you're informational,

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<v Speaker 1>you're relatable. Those are all valuable things. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>everyone has their own different way of getting there, but

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I know how to do that. Now so

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<v Speaker 1>I could go from zero.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's crazy. It's like almost become the thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I read. I read an article of you being interviewed,

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<v Speaker 2>and the thing that I thought was like so fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>and something that I struggle with a lot is like

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<v Speaker 2>having a formula. And that sounds like for a creator,

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<v Speaker 2>there's nothing scarier than the word formula, right, Like you

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<v Speaker 2>feel your trap now into a box. But for what

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<v Speaker 2>has worked for you? Have you have stuck to this recipe?

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<v Speaker 2>Recipe is probably the better way of putting it, because

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<v Speaker 2>that sounds I think better and more like open and

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<v Speaker 2>then like this is working, I'm sticking to this. Like

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<v Speaker 2>how did you find out what that formula was?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? I didn't put that much thought into it.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I've tried so many different things and most of

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<v Speaker 1>them failed. So it wasn't like I was like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>like first try here, got it. But finally when I

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<v Speaker 1>found something that did work, I knew right away. So

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<v Speaker 1>I met my first video on TikTok. We'll get to

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<v Speaker 1>the TikTok portion of my career. It was twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>I had worked in sports media for a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>years out in LA started making videos on my own

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<v Speaker 1>and I did. I did an origin story about Yiannis.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, it's an interesting story, a little kid growing

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<v Speaker 1>up on the streets to Athens, trying to sell knockoff

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<v Speaker 1>DVDs to people to make a dollar. It's amazing, really

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<v Speaker 1>is a great story. I would see these on YouTube

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<v Speaker 1>and they were like eight and a half minutes long.

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<v Speaker 1>Eight it's an important number there because once you go

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<v Speaker 1>over that, you can throw an ad in the middle.

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<v Speaker 1>So people would stretch them out on purpose and the

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<v Speaker 1>story would lose value because you know, it just didn't

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<v Speaker 1>need to take that long. I saw these and I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, I'll do that in one minute. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>try that on TikTok. You know they limit you to

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<v Speaker 1>one minute. It's the whole game. And it worked immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>People really appreciated how I didn't waste their time. I

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<v Speaker 1>told the story with forward motion. It was fast paced,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's the whole thing about TikTok because it's a

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<v Speaker 1>fast paced environment. So it just fit. It just fit

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<v Speaker 1>all of TikTok's values. People appreciated it, and I was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>now this gout to do one of these every single day,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's the repeatability that you talked about was like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it's one thing to go viral, to have a hit,

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<v Speaker 1>Now can you do that every day of your life?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what I did, Like the next two years.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think I missed a day.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you see that article that just came out about

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<v Speaker 2>Sham's I was going to ask I read the whole Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought that was so just for people who haven't

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<v Speaker 2>read it. It chronicles Schams's career. He ends up getting

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<v Speaker 2>mentored by Woes Wojenhammer now in this like Cold War

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<v Speaker 2>as newsbreakers. But the thing that I thought was fascinating

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<v Speaker 2>to me is that like Shams has absolutely zero work

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<v Speaker 2>life balance. He probably will never date in any meaningful way.

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<v Speaker 2>He's on his phone like eighteen hours a day. Like,

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<v Speaker 2>what was the most interesting part, because you talk about consistency,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was the first thing I thought about when

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<v Speaker 2>you said two years without missing a video, Like, what

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<v Speaker 2>was the thing that you felt was compelling in that

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<v Speaker 2>article as it relates to you in your career.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Shams is born that way that stuck out. And

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, one of my friends I went to

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<v Speaker 1>college with him, he went to New Trier. He graduated

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<v Speaker 1>with Shams. I saw him this week and at a

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<v Speaker 1>wedding and he was like, you see the article on

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<v Speaker 1>my boy Shams. And I was like, oh yeah you guys,

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<v Speaker 1>Like were you the same year? He was like yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I had classes with them. I was like, was he

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<v Speaker 1>the same way in high school? He's like the exact

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<v Speaker 1>same way. Just loved basketball, obsessed with basketball. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>They mentioned this in the article like it didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>make the teams, but was just dialed in. And they

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<v Speaker 1>go in the article and talk about how he's you know, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't do this interview. I got class. Oh skip college. No,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in high school. So that's just the way he is.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you, you can't really give advice if your sham's

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<v Speaker 1>like you kind of have it or you don't. Not

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<v Speaker 1>everyone's cut out for that. In my career is certainly

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<v Speaker 1>not as demanding. But I'm entrepreneurial by heart. Like I

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<v Speaker 1>was the kid in high school selling snapback hats out

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<v Speaker 1>of my locker and printing T shirts in the school

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<v Speaker 1>art room and selling those and it was just fun

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<v Speaker 1>for me. That's what I like to do. So when

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<v Speaker 1>I had the chance, when I saw this video go off,

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<v Speaker 1>I knew I had a chance here. It was fun

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<v Speaker 1>to take that chance and be like, let's do this

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<v Speaker 1>every day, Let's keep this rolling. It was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I was having a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>How long did it take for you to realize that

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<v Speaker 2>you could monetize this?

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<v Speaker 1>See, I had a bit of an advantage. I worked

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<v Speaker 1>in sports for a couple of years with clutch points

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<v Speaker 1>right exactly. So I'll tell you a funny story. I

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't making very much money, and so I went to

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<v Speaker 1>my boss and I was like, hey, can I start

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<v Speaker 1>doing some sales on the side. I got to sign

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<v Speaker 1>some of these deals so I can get a commission check.

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<v Speaker 1>Like LA's expensive, Trista, it's I So I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I got to make some extra money, like I'm stressing,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I didn't even have a car and I live

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<v Speaker 1>in LA. So I was like, let me sign some

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<v Speaker 1>of these deals.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got I stop you right there really fast?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you uber everywhere? Or what did you do?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh? Uberpool? That was my thing? All right, Peter Uberpool,

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<v Speaker 1>we need it back.

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<v Speaker 2>So you say, okay, I want to do sales.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So I find this deal and it's with the

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<v Speaker 1>company sports betting Dime and it was a nice deal.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like a twenty five thousand dollars a month

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<v Speaker 1>deal and I was scheduled to make like a couple

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<v Speaker 1>thousand on it every month, which was like, Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>this is like massive life changing money for me. And

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<v Speaker 1>the day we signed it, we had all the ink

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<v Speaker 1>on the paper. The pandemic hits March badness gets shut down,

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<v Speaker 1>the deal gets voided, and I'm out, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

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<v Speaker 1>This can't be happening right now. And fast forward a

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<v Speaker 1>couple months later, I'm making my own videos. I part

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<v Speaker 1>ways with Clutch Points. I reached back out to the

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<v Speaker 1>same company, sportspending time, and I was like, Hey, give

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<v Speaker 1>me a fraction of what you were about to give

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<v Speaker 1>Clutch Points and I'll deliver. I'm getting tons of views

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<v Speaker 1>right now. I'll drive people where you want to drive them.

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<v Speaker 1>And I crushed it for them. So I monetized pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>But I had some relationships in the bag.

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<v Speaker 2>So what do you think is the most important part

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<v Speaker 2>of a creator going from engaging content views to Ashley

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<v Speaker 2>delivering value.

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<v Speaker 1>For a brand. I mean, people have to care about you,

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<v Speaker 1>They have to care about you, and that's like, that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the problems Clutch Points had was like no

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<v Speaker 1>one really cares about the brand that much. They delivered

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of news like hey, so and so sprains

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<v Speaker 1>his ankle and here's the article about it, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna link you back to the website. They they couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>have like an in person activation. They couldn't be like, hey, everybody,

0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.360
<v Speaker 1>meet up. We're having a three v three tournament at

0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the park. Like people wouldn't show up. They didn't really

0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.040
<v Speaker 1>identify with the brand. They were just in it for

0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.920
<v Speaker 1>these little news morsels, and a lot of it was

0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.160
<v Speaker 1>just aggregated too, like they're really shams probably like you know,

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.200
<v Speaker 1>there there's taking what he does. And they do have

0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.640
<v Speaker 1>a couple guys like beat writers for the Clippers and such,

0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.720
<v Speaker 1>but you know, that was really the business. They weren't

0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.920
<v Speaker 1>building a relationship with their audience. They weren't fostering anything.

0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.600
<v Speaker 1>So when I went out of my own, I knew

0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.080
<v Speaker 1>I can't have that. I have to show my face

0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.320
<v Speaker 1>in these videos. I have to I have to be relatable.

0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I have to show you know there's there's a human

0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.040
<v Speaker 1>behind these videos. I'm not like you know some sports

0:11:56.040 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 1>story machine. I have a life, so you know, people

0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.920
<v Speaker 1>people actually appreciate that. I just started a broadcast channel

0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.000
<v Speaker 1>on you on Instagram the other day. Thousand people joined

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.040
<v Speaker 1>it immediately. They care about me. So that's the answer

0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.280
<v Speaker 1>your question. That's how you have to transition. And like

0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>people are only gonna convert to brands or sponsor deals

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:18.680
<v Speaker 1>they care.

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it's hard to get brands to want to

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.439
<v Speaker 2>jump on even if your views are big, right, Like,

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:25.319
<v Speaker 2>because how are you.

0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:25.679
<v Speaker 1>Going to do that?

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Are you going to put a water mark in? Because

0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 2>that's not gonna get any real organic value to a brand,

0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.520
<v Speaker 2>is it? Is it something that's like you know this

0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.480
<v Speaker 2>Canada drive that I'm just having, Like what are like,

0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.400
<v Speaker 2>how how do you find the Because I saw that

0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.680
<v Speaker 2>there was a big stock X partnership that you just

0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.240
<v Speaker 2>did where you did a scavenger hunt inside of an arena.

0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.800
<v Speaker 1>So that actually not stock I wanted to be stock X.

0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh so what was it was?

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Just you bought the Travis Scott.

0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, let me explain this. This is this is

0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.360
<v Speaker 1>really cool. So it's totally sponsored right now stock X.

0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.440
<v Speaker 1>If anyone's listening, pay those attention to the segment My

0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 1>suggestion is always to be creative with the brand deals.

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 1>The brand's paying you money, you know, I think you

0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:13.599
<v Speaker 1>owe it to them to at least think outside the

0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 1>box a little bit. It shouldn't be as simple as like,

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.559
<v Speaker 1>here's a candidate dry, you know, use your brain a

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.440
<v Speaker 1>little bit. So this isn't sponsored yet. In the future,

0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I hope the brands will see the creativity. But me

0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 1>and a fellow Pittsburgh creator. His name's Cohen Hanahan. He

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 1>goes by all Hail b Ball. You might have seen

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 1>his stuff before. I know you're on Basketball TikTok, so

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.679
<v Speaker 1>you've probably seen him. Anyway, we linked up and we

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.240
<v Speaker 1>were like, hey, how cool would it be if we

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.160
<v Speaker 1>did a scavenger hunt at the Steelers game? And we

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 1>loved it, so we went in during the pit game,

0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.160
<v Speaker 1>which they play at Heinsfield Acrosher Stadium now and they

0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.920
<v Speaker 1>played a week before, hit it during the pick game,

0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.200
<v Speaker 1>took a video of us hiding it but didn't give

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>away too much, and then promoted that we're doing this,

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and then it was on and we were like, hey,

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 1>find the golden letter, you win the Travis Scotts and

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 1>we ended up having to move the letter a little bit.

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>We had some logistical issues, but I stood in the

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.680
<v Speaker 1>corner Trista and tied my hoodie up and watched hundreds

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 1>of kids dig around the concourse. It was amazing, Like

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>to see these people in real life. It's so game changing,

0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Like we sit behind these screens and see the views

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>go up. Seeing it in person is like next level.

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I love it. So now we're doing it every week.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 2>That's six. You came out your pocket for the Travis

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Scotts Bobbie the secondary market to do the activation for

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>a potential deal that hasn't even happened yet.

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Well yes, but we also get like we're building something

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 1>like we also do giveaway attached to it. So if

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 1>you were to like I can't make it to Pittsburgh,

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 1>you go to my bill, you enter your email in

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and you have a chance to win another pair. So

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.760
<v Speaker 1>now we get everyone's email, we can create like a

0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Koolus letter. So we're building assets attached to this. It's

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>called the hunt. You can't talk and you can talk

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>to