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Speaker 1: The Michael Barry Show, Welcome to the Weekend Podcast. Honored

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Speaker 1: to have you here. Has been made clear to me

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Speaker 1: by a number of our podcast fans that you don't

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Speaker 1: always get the Weekend podcast on the weekend, which is cool.

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Speaker 1: The beauty of podcasts, you know, I think I'm fifty

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Speaker 1: four years old. The beauty of the podcast and the

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Speaker 1: podcast medium, not just our show, is the idea of

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Speaker 1: on demand content.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think about when I was a kid, my brother

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Speaker 1: and I Thursday evenings. You know, we'd run and jump

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Speaker 1: on the bean bag and we'd be there ten minutes

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Speaker 1: early before our show started. Because if you missed your show,

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Speaker 1: you missed your show. And if you're my age or older,

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Speaker 1: you remember that the commercials were when you'd run pee

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Speaker 1: because you couldn't stop the TV. And then there there

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Speaker 1: was a point where you had the VCR and now

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Speaker 1: you could you could watch a movie. You could buy

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Speaker 1: a movie or in a movie and bring it home

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Speaker 1: and watch it on your terms, so you could watch

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Speaker 1: it and rewatch it. If there was a scene you

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Speaker 1: weren't sure about, you could stop and rewind what did

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Speaker 1: he say? You know, because Marlon Brando in the Godfather

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Speaker 1: it's a little hard to understand, so you could rewind

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Speaker 1: and see what he said. Awesome. And then there was

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Speaker 1: TVO remember tvo, and you could you could record TV

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Speaker 1: shows and it would it had like that pop up

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Speaker 1: video sound when you were working on it, and had

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Speaker 1: the little antenna.

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Speaker 2: Dude.

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Speaker 1: That was cool, and you could record your shows and

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Speaker 1: watch them whenever you wanted. Man, that was a game changer.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think through all of these things

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Speaker 1: and how cool that became. The podcast medium allowed us

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Speaker 1: as a weekday radio show, we do a morning and

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Speaker 1: an evening show. It allowed us to give more life

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Speaker 1: to the same content we created, which was cool, right.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if you were only a live band and nothing

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Speaker 1: you did was ever recorded, so you could only build

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Speaker 1: your audience so much. When the podcast started, a number

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Speaker 1: of people in radio were panicked that podcasters were going

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Speaker 1: to cut into our market share. And my point was,

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Speaker 1: if you're good at what you do, technology shouldn't replace you.

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Speaker 1: If you're not good at what you do, you deserve

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Speaker 1: to be replaced. So now a lot of people can

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Speaker 1: do podcasts that may not be able to do radio

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Speaker 1: during the week, and not because they weren't good, but

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Speaker 1: because they make too much money doing something else, or

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Speaker 1: they're already committed to doing something else. And you look

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Speaker 1: at the myriad options of podcasts available today, from true

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Speaker 1: crime to science to travel to history. It's incredible. There's

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Speaker 1: so many podcasts out there that you can't possibly ever

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Speaker 1: keep up with how many of them there are, which

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Speaker 1: is amazing in and of itself. But what the podcast

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Speaker 1: medium allowed us to do was to be able to

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Speaker 1: give new life to the same show we had just created.

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Speaker 1: And now our audience. I don't know if it's if

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of our audience is now podcast or if

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Speaker 1: it's more than that, but we grow every day and

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Speaker 1: we see these we see these maps of where our

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Speaker 1: listeners come from. And that's why I love to hear

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Speaker 1: from you. So there's somebody you know in Requiavec and

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Speaker 1: somebody in Paris, and somebody in Budapest, and eighteen people

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Speaker 1: in Bucharest and nineteen people in warsaw It it's incredible

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Speaker 1: and cool. Not Djibouti, Okay, there is a mandjabooty, that's true.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, wherever you are, whenever you hear this, go

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Speaker 1: to Michael Berryshow dot Com our website and it says,

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Speaker 1: send Michael an email, and people think. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why they think I would lie. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: why I would, but I read every email and I

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Speaker 1: love to hear from you. So just tell me where

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Speaker 1: you listen, where is home to you, and you'll more

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Speaker 1: likely than not if you start your sentence, you will

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Speaker 1: get an email back from me. Oh that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Or I'll tell you the.

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Speaker 1: One thing I know about the town where you live.

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Speaker 2: Or whatever else.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, enough of that. It is the weekend podcast. There

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Speaker 1: will be several this weekend. And Milton Friedman is a

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Speaker 1: hero of mine, who's a hero of Thomas Soul, who's

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Speaker 1: a professor of thomasol and he is to me the

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Speaker 1: rock star of modern free market economics. He won the

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Speaker 1: Nobel Prize back when that mattered. He wrote best selling books.

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Speaker 1: He spent his career arguing that government interference in the

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Speaker 1: economy usually causes more problems than it quote unquote fixes,

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Speaker 1: from inflation, taxes to personal freedom. His ideas absolutely shook

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Speaker 1: up not just economics, but politics and culture. And to

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Speaker 1: this day his idea is still fuel debates, and that's

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Speaker 1: a good thing. Milton Friedman changed the way we think

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Speaker 1: about money, markets and liberty. For this bonus podcast, we

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Speaker 1: would like to bring you Milton Friedman explaining how taxing

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Speaker 1: the rich doesn't actually help the poor. This is not

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Speaker 1: just a moral argument, it's an argument based on economics,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: The myth the government has benefited the poor at the

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Speaker 3: expense of the rich.

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Speaker 2: That's the myth.

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Speaker 3: Those are the terms on which many a governmental program

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Speaker 3: is So what is the reality. The reality has been

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Speaker 3: described in an article in the Journal of Law and

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Speaker 3: Economics by my colleague George Stiegler under the title of

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Speaker 3: Director's Law. And Director is the name of Aaron Director,

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Speaker 3: who is a professor at the University of Chicago Law School.

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Speaker 3: And I might also say my brother in law. Director's

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Speaker 3: law is that almost invariably, government programs benefit the middle

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Speaker 3: income class at the expense of the very poor and

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Speaker 3: the very rich. Now that may seem to you strange,

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Speaker 3: but let me first explain why it makes logical sense,

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Speaker 3: and second give you some empirical evidence, starting right here

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Speaker 3: at home with higher education and the state financing of

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Speaker 3: higher education. On the logical level, you have an econoo

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Speaker 3: political system under which laws are passed by fifty one

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Speaker 3: percent of the people voting one against forty nine percent

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Speaker 3: of the people.

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Speaker 2: Now, the way to get.

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Speaker 3: A law pass, therefore, is to form a coalition covering

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Speaker 3: fifty one percent of the people. You might think that

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Speaker 3: you would take the bottom fifty one percent versus the

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Speaker 3: top forty nine percent, But the more you think about it,

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Speaker 3: the more you realize that that's not a very effective

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Speaker 3: way to form a coalition. Why because those people who

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Speaker 3: are at the bottom tend to be much less skillful

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Speaker 3: in political activity for the very reasons that leave them

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Speaker 3: at the bottom in the economic scale. They are at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the economic scale because they have low skills,

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Speaker 3: or low abilities, or low entrepreneurial capacities, or have been

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Speaker 3: unfortunate to have been born handicapped, or in groups that

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Speaker 3: are discriminated against. But those same features make them relatively

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Speaker 3: less effective in political activity. Who are the most effective

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Speaker 3: people in political activity those of us in the middle

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Speaker 3: and in the middle classes. Where are the people who

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Speaker 3: are literate? Where are the people who write for the newspaper,

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Speaker 3: Where are the people who mount the hustings? Where are

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Speaker 3: the people who provide the candidates? Well, you might say,

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Speaker 3: why doesn't the coalition come from the top.

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Speaker 2: All the way down fifty one percent.

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Speaker 3: Well, the answer is the g those people at the top,

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Speaker 3: that's a place we can get a lot of money from,

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Speaker 3: and it's worth sacrificing a few votes to get a

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Speaker 3: large fraction of a tax base. And therefore the logically

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Speaker 3: most reasonable coalition is sort of fifty one percent of

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Speaker 3: the people running from the lower middle class through the

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Speaker 3: upper middle class and leaving out the very rich at

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Speaker 3: the top and the very part at the bottom.

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Speaker 2: Now, it doesn't always work that way.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes the very rich are able to use their money

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Speaker 3: to get a effective coalition, but most of the time

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Speaker 3: that's the way it works. One of my favorite examples

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Speaker 3: is state finance of higher education. This is always sold

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Speaker 3: on the ground of providing opportunities to everybody in the

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Speaker 3: society to get an education, but what are facts. I

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Speaker 3: doubt that there is any program financed by government in

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Speaker 3: the United States which is as regressive in its impact

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Speaker 3: and its financially impact as a financing of higher schooling.

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Speaker 2: Who are the people who go to school?

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Speaker 3: Who are the people who are attending this university? Mostly

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Speaker 3: people who come from middle, upper middle or lower middle

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Speaker 3: income class families. If there are a few among you

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Speaker 3: who come from lower income families, you are going to.

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Speaker 2: Be among the middle and upper income classes.

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Speaker 3: You are the richer among the poor. They are the

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Speaker 3: people who go to school. They are the people who

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Speaker 3: get the benefit from it. Your training here will enable

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Speaker 3: you to get higher incomes than you otherwise come. Who

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Speaker 3: pays for it, well, you pay for it and your

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Speaker 3: family and friends pay for it.

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Speaker 2: Not through tuition.

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Speaker 3: I am told your tuition covers about fifteen percent of

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Speaker 3: the cost of your schooling. The taxpayers paid for it,

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Speaker 3: including the people who don't go to school.

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Speaker 2: Some years ago, there was.

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Speaker 3: A study made for the state of California which showed

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Speaker 3: that fifty percent of the students at state supporting institutions

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Speaker 3: of higher education came from the top twenty five percent

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Speaker 3: of the income class, and five percent came from the

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Speaker 3: bottom twenty five percent of the income class.

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Speaker 2: I myself am.

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Speaker 3: A beneficiary of state support of higher education. I went

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Speaker 3: through a school that has since become a state university,

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Speaker 3: Rutgers University in the state of New Jersey, on a

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Speaker 3: state scholarship. Now, I think I benefited from going to

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Speaker 3: the university, although I know and I think even maybe

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Speaker 3: the country at large did, although I know there are

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Speaker 3: many people who disagree with that, but there's no reason

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Speaker 3: why I shouldn't have paid for it.

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Speaker 2: What are the poor citizens in New Jersey? Gay?

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Speaker 3: The day I graduated from college, i left New Jersey

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Speaker 3: and I've hardly ever been back since. There's a strong

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Speaker 3: case to be made that everybody who wants to go

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Speaker 3: to university should have an opportunity to do so, provided

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Speaker 3: he's willing to pay for it. Not necessarily right now.

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Speaker 3: It's highly desirable to have arrangements under which he can

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Speaker 3: borrow now to pay it back later out of a

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Speaker 3: higher income that his education will make possible. But there

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Speaker 3: is no justification for imposing taxes on lower income people

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Speaker 3: to finance the schooling of people who are or will

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Speaker 3: be in the higher income groups. And yet, how much

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Speaker 3: political movement is there to impose full cost tuition on colleges.

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Speaker 3: There is nobody who would have a ghost of a

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Speaker 3: chance of being elected to a legislature or to the

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Speaker 3: state house on that program. It's the hardest thing in

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Speaker 3: the world legislatively to get higher tuitions impost why because

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Speaker 3: the middle class looks after itself.

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Speaker 2: Because of Director's Law.

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Speaker 3: Now what's true for higher education is true in every

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Speaker 3: other area. Consider social security. Now, social security is also

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Speaker 3: sold as a.

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Speaker 2: Program to benefit the poor. What are the facts. Social

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Speaker 2: Security is.

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Speaker 3: A program which imposes unduly heavy taxes on the lower

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Speaker 3: income groups in the society to provide higher benefits.

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Speaker 2: To upper income groups in the society.

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Speaker 3: How does it work. It's not because of the regressive

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Speaker 3: nature of the wage tax. It's not because of the

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Speaker 3: structure of benefits. It's because of a very simple phenomenon.

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Speaker 3: At what age do younger men from the lower classes

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Speaker 3: go to work? Sixteen seventeen, eighteen nineteen, That's when they

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Speaker 3: start to pay Social Security taxes? At what age are

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Speaker 3: you people going to go to work and start paying

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Speaker 3: Social Security taxes? Some of you may in part time

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Speaker 3: jobs have been doing so, but you will be a

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Speaker 3: full time social Security payers only when you reach your

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Speaker 3: middle twenties, so they will pay taxes for the more years.

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Speaker 3: Then you will pay taxes next, which one is going

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Speaker 3: to receive benefits for longer. Every demographic study has shown

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Speaker 3: that the average expected length of life of middle and

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Speaker 3: upper income classes is longer than the average length to

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Speaker 3: life of people from the lower income classes. So those

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Speaker 3: poor suckers are going to pay taxes for more years

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Speaker 3: and receive payments for fewer years then you and I will.

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Speaker 3: Now some of us, by virtue of continuing to work

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Speaker 3: between sixty five and seventy two, will not be in

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Speaker 3: that favored class. But already the fraction of people who

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Speaker 3: work between sixty five and seventy two has been cut

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Speaker 3: to a small part of what it used to be

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Speaker 3: because of the incentive offered by Social Security, And overall,

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Speaker 3: there is little doubt therefore, that Social Security is a

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Speaker 3: program which transfers income from low income classes to high

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Speaker 3: income classes. Same thing is true of almost every other

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Speaker 3: social program you can mention. I have often challenged people

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Speaker 3: to find a single governmental program in which the people

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Speaker 3: who pay taxes have higher incomes than those who get

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Speaker 3: the benefits.

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Speaker 2: I know only one, and that's direct.

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Speaker 3: Relief, public assistance, the aid to families that dependent children.

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Speaker 3: It's not a good program, it's a terrible program. It's

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Speaker 3: a welfare mess. But so far as I can find out,

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Speaker 3: it's the only program that demonstrably transfers income from higher

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Speaker 3: income classes to.

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Speaker 2: Lower income classes. And that's why it's such an unpopular.

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Speaker 1: P If you like the Michael Berry Show and Podcast.

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Speaker 1: if you know a veteran suffering from PTSD, call Camp

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