Speaker 1: All right. We are, of course in the thick of
Speaker 1: earning season this week, and McDonald's was one of the
Speaker 1: companies that reported uh some disappointing numbers from the restaurant company,
Speaker 1: of course, because of COVID nineteen interruptions. In addition, the
Speaker 1: company this week said it will step up efforts to
Speaker 1: fight racism by addressing hiring biases and increase the diversity
Speaker 1: of its leadership and doing more to attract diverse franchisees.
Speaker 1: So on that note, we want to bring in our
Speaker 1: next guest, Marcia Chatlin. She is a professor of history
Speaker 1: and African American Studies at Jason's alma mater, Georgetown University.
Speaker 1: There you go, who has written this wonderful book It
Speaker 1: came out earlier this year called Franchise the Golden Arches
Speaker 1: in Black America to really tie together how fast food
Speaker 1: and civil rights and Black America came together in this
Speaker 1: powerful way. Professor Chatlin, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us today. Just give us an overview here about how
Speaker 1: and why McDonald's became so important to Black America and
Speaker 1: in Black America. Well, the story of McDonald's and Black
Speaker 1: America starts in Night After the assassination of Dr Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King Jr. And essentially, at this moment, like our
Speaker 1: moment today, people were really reflective about the various pressures
Speaker 1: that were happening in predominantly African American communities that had
Speaker 1: been cut off from resources. And in addition to many
Speaker 1: of the concerns of communities, people said that they would
Speaker 1: like to see more black owned businesses. And this was
Speaker 1: a moment in which a lot of corporations were shifting
Speaker 1: in that direction. And so McDonald was a leader in
Speaker 1: the sense in recruiting African American franchise owners to go
Speaker 1: into African American communities and to build McDonald's the brand
Speaker 1: as well as use their restaurants as a way to
Speaker 1: reinvest in communities. And so how did it come about?
Speaker 1: I mean, because there must have been some sort of candidly,
Speaker 1: you know, just knowing a little bit about the history,
Speaker 1: some tricky mechanics and politics around that at the time,
Speaker 1: especially in the sixties, Dr Chatlin, help us understand those
Speaker 1: right is a really pivotal moment because the mainstream civil
Speaker 1: rights movement um is trying to decide what direction it
Speaker 1: should take, and having having seen so many legislative victories
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties, but not actually seeing this translate
Speaker 1: into economic opportunity, better schools, better access to housing. A
Speaker 1: number of leaders and civil rights movement really wanted to
Speaker 1: work with business and corporations to bring in these opportunities.
Speaker 1: In addition to that, many white franchise owners no longer
Speaker 1: wanted to do business in group in communities that were
Speaker 1: becoming increasingly black, or were segregated and all black. And
Speaker 1: so you see this convergence of an economic white flight
Speaker 1: as well as the support of the civil rights movement.
Speaker 1: And then you have President Richard Nixon who is investing
Speaker 1: in this idea of black capitalism where he's putting money
Speaker 1: in business. But one of the things that I think
Speaker 1: is important to note is that none of these approaches
Speaker 1: necessarily get at the root causes of structural inequality. But
Speaker 1: you start to see business becoming part of the conversation.
Speaker 1: Business becomes part of the conversation, and it becomes part
Speaker 1: of the community. You write about how these black owned
Speaker 1: franchises of McDonald's shape the community around them. They it
Speaker 1: goes beyond providing jobs. They play a leading cultural role.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that, right, So, African American
Speaker 1: franchise owners take on the role that black business owners
Speaker 1: have historically taken on, and that means that they're providing
Speaker 1: other resources and communities because of the color line in
Speaker 1: government services and opportunities. So they're underwriting youth programs at schools,
Speaker 1: They're making sure that first jobs are actually being created
Speaker 1: in the communities. They are sponsoring things like the early
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Jr. Holiday. So you start to see
Speaker 1: their influence not just in the business sector, but for history,
Speaker 1: really black colleges and universities for the creation of the
Speaker 1: All American basketball team. And so these black franchise owners
Speaker 1: become incredibly visible and incredibly popular in these communities because,
Speaker 1: as I say in my book, these communities are cut
Speaker 1: off from federal resources and other types of opportunities in
Speaker 1: order to have their needs met. So Dr Chaplin, how
Speaker 1: far does it extend beyond McDonald's, because we do know
Speaker 1: that today in the gap in wealth between Black Americans
Speaker 1: and white Americans is massive. Why didn't this catch on
Speaker 1: more beyond McDonald's. Well, I think that the reality is
Speaker 1: is that you can't solve robust and complex and deep
Speaker 1: social problems simply by um having business lead the way
Speaker 1: that we have a public sphere, we have public policy,
Speaker 1: we have public resources like taxes in order to do that.
Speaker 1: But what it does reveal is that this moment that
Speaker 1: McDonald's is in right now saying that they stand for
Speaker 1: black lives donating to the c P, it's not new.
Speaker 1: We have a fifty year plus history of McDonald's inserting
Speaker 1: itself into the civil rights struggles so that they can
Speaker 1: appear that they're on the right side of history. But
Speaker 1: in this early period when McDonald's was extending the opportunity
Speaker 1: for franchising, people did not have the full understanding of
Speaker 1: the consequences of fast food on the American diet, as
Speaker 1: well as the concerns about wages in the industry. Today,
Speaker 1: supporting Black Lives visa v. McDonald's has more to do
Speaker 1: with the quality of work and benefits and providing for
Speaker 1: its people than some of these other solutions from the past.
Speaker 1: Very well said, and I'm struck also by the parallels
Speaker 1: to today, this idea that um companies, the private sector
Speaker 1: kind of pick up the slack when the government, the
Speaker 1: government up is unwilling or can't provide a lot of
Speaker 1: the funding. How did you come to writing this book, well,
Speaker 1: I was concerned about that very issue. I think that
Speaker 1: this book is a story about how these relationships are complicated.
Speaker 1: On one hand, we can't say that we're concerned about
Speaker 1: the gap in nutrition and help outcomes and access in
Speaker 1: African American communities without understanding the history of how fast
Speaker 1: food became such a presence in certain parts of our country.
Speaker 1: And we can't say that it's simply a matter of
Speaker 1: giving people food choices and then they'll follow without understanding
Speaker 1: the other kinds of relationships that businesses have with communities.
Speaker 1: And we also have to remember that if we want
Speaker 1: to solve problems, we have to invest in the public good,
Speaker 1: the public sphere, and we can't allow corporations to lead
Speaker 1: the way. So, Professor Challen, you've made a number of
Speaker 1: references inviously. The book is set in many ways or
Speaker 1: takes its uh takes its beginning from things that were
Speaker 1: happening in the sixties, and he mentioned night there have
Speaker 1: been so many parallels drawn, and we are just by
Speaker 1: coincidence speaking to you on the day where the first
Speaker 1: black president just eulogized someone who was deeply involved in
Speaker 1: civil rights from the sixties on. You know talking about
Speaker 1: the late John Lewis tell us the historical lens that
Speaker 1: you used to look at in comparing and not just
Speaker 1: limiting to to business n and there's so many parallels here. Well.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I was struck. I had
Speaker 1: the opportunity to serve on a panel with Congressman Lewis,
Speaker 1: and he described the moment after the teen election as
Speaker 1: some of the most challenging and trying of his life,
Speaker 1: which is an incredibly um poignant thing to hear from
Speaker 1: someone who lived through so many times of turmoil. But
Speaker 1: I think that at both moments sixty eight and today,
Speaker 1: we have a growing consciousness among a larger group of
Speaker 1: people about the problems of racial injustice. We are also
Speaker 1: in the middle of a serious crisis with COVID, but
Speaker 1: in eight we also saw the escalation of war in Vietnam,
Speaker 1: and I think that the central question for all of
Speaker 1: us is how do we step up and make sure
Speaker 1: that communities get the resources they need. And like I
Speaker 1: think today, there has been allowed of gestures on the
Speaker 1: part of the private sector, but we're not seeing enough
Speaker 1: in terms of again a government led public approach to
Speaker 1: solving the problems of racial inequality. If sixty eight taught
Speaker 1: us anything is that the businesses did not solve the
Speaker 1: problems of racial injustice. It's on all of us in
Speaker 1: communities in order to strategize to solve those problems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: business can only go so far and should only go
Speaker 1: so far because it's not their responsibility stimately, So as
Speaker 1: we look ahead, um, at some point, the Trump administration
Speaker 1: will end, whether it's after this November or four novembers
Speaker 1: from now. What are you hearing from those who are
Speaker 1: trying to run for office, whether it's the Biden campaign
Speaker 1: or other political leaders that encourage you inter in so
Speaker 1: far as thinking about how government is more committed to
Speaker 1: ensuring more racial quality. Well, one of the things that
Speaker 1: I think has been wonderful with the kind of what
Speaker 1: they say the left wing party of the Democrats, the
Speaker 1: Progressive Democrats, is that they're asking really good questions about
Speaker 1: what does it mean for us to solve these problems.
Speaker 1: They're not saying, um, simply all money should just be
Speaker 1: poured into problems. It's being thoughtful again about wages, about
Speaker 1: access to housing, about how we're going to make sure
Speaker 1: that we have the best health care system possible. So
Speaker 1: we don't see another tragedy like the ones that we're
Speaker 1: living through. And so what I think is happening is
Speaker 1: that people are becoming more critical of UM, how business
Speaker 1: is conducted, there being more thoughtful about inviting problem solvers
Speaker 1: who will really care about the quality of human life
Speaker 1: and the dignity and the way people live. And I
Speaker 1: think also in this you know, incredible moment, we see
Speaker 1: the reinvigoration of the Poor People's Campaign UM with Reverend
Speaker 1: William Barber who's saying that we actually have to have
Speaker 1: the political will to solve the problems of poverty. And
Speaker 1: so I think what we're having right now is this
Speaker 1: incredible reckoning and it's up to all of us to
Speaker 1: see it as a real moment to move closer and
Speaker 1: closer to the kind of justice that John Lewis deserved
Speaker 1: to see in his lifetime. Dr Chadlin, one last question
Speaker 1: for you before we let you get back to it.
Speaker 1: I do wonder, you know, as someone who is teaching
Speaker 1: these issues and we are all living through, you know,
Speaker 1: this moment in history, how does it change your curriculum?
Speaker 1: What what are you gonna say to your students come fall?
Speaker 1: And obviously I know enough to be angers about how
Speaker 1: Georgetown is going to be organized. I know it's going
Speaker 1: to be a hybrid uh situation, but but what do
Speaker 1: you think about differently as you approach this next semester
Speaker 1: while we just announced for going all online, and I
Speaker 1: think right now for students, we need to see this
Speaker 1: moment as not just a source of angst, but this
Speaker 1: incredible opportunity because COVID and racial justice protests, all of
Speaker 1: these things are giving us an opportunity to take a
Speaker 1: closer look at where our society has failed. And we
Speaker 1: have these incredible opportunities to really deliberate on how to
Speaker 1: solve the problem. And so I think for my students,
Speaker 1: what I want them to understand is that another world
Speaker 1: is possible that in people couldn't see around the corner,
Speaker 1: and so they do the best they could. But with
Speaker 1: the knowledge of more history and with the knowledge um
Speaker 1: that comes with more time, how are we going to
Speaker 1: approach problems differently and how our generations in the future,
Speaker 1: how are they going to see us and are they
Speaker 1: going to be empathetic or are they going to be
Speaker 1: critical of the things that we did and the things
Speaker 1: that we failed to do well? Said Marcia Chaplin. She
Speaker 1: is a professor of history and African American Studies at
Speaker 1: one of the best universities in the world. I'm just
Speaker 1: Georgetown University. Also author of the terrific book franchise, The
Speaker 1: Golden Arches in Black America, incredibly timely out now pick
Speaker 1: it up. It's a great read. Gives you so much
Speaker 1: perspective on the economics of the racial question here and
Speaker 1: the history, the complicated history, and the troubling history of
Speaker 1: Black America.