1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: All right. We are, of course in the thick of 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: earning season this week, and McDonald's was one of the 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: companies that reported uh some disappointing numbers from the restaurant company, 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of course, because of COVID nineteen interruptions. In addition, the 5 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: company this week said it will step up efforts to 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: fight racism by addressing hiring biases and increase the diversity 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: of its leadership and doing more to attract diverse franchisees. 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: So on that note, we want to bring in our 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: next guest, Marcia Chatlin. She is a professor of history 10 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: and African American Studies at Jason's alma mater, Georgetown University. 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: There you go, who has written this wonderful book It 12 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: came out earlier this year called Franchise the Golden Arches 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: in Black America to really tie together how fast food 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: and civil rights and Black America came together in this 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: powerful way. Professor Chatlin, thank you so much for joining 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: us today. Just give us an overview here about how 17 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: and why McDonald's became so important to Black America and 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: in Black America. Well, the story of McDonald's and Black 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: America starts in Night After the assassination of Dr Martin 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: Luther King Jr. And essentially, at this moment, like our 21 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: moment today, people were really reflective about the various pressures 22 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: that were happening in predominantly African American communities that had 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: been cut off from resources. And in addition to many 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: of the concerns of communities, people said that they would 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: like to see more black owned businesses. And this was 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: a moment in which a lot of corporations were shifting 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: in that direction. And so McDonald was a leader in 28 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: the sense in recruiting African American franchise owners to go 29 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: into African American communities and to build McDonald's the brand 30 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: as well as use their restaurants as a way to 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: reinvest in communities. And so how did it come about? 32 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: I mean, because there must have been some sort of candidly, 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, just knowing a little bit about the history, 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: some tricky mechanics and politics around that at the time, 35 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: especially in the sixties, Dr Chatlin, help us understand those 36 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: right is a really pivotal moment because the mainstream civil 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: rights movement um is trying to decide what direction it 38 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: should take, and having having seen so many legislative victories 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties, but not actually seeing this translate 40 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: into economic opportunity, better schools, better access to housing. A 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: number of leaders and civil rights movement really wanted to 42 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: work with business and corporations to bring in these opportunities. 43 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: In addition to that, many white franchise owners no longer 44 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: wanted to do business in group in communities that were 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: becoming increasingly black, or were segregated and all black. And 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: so you see this convergence of an economic white flight 47 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: as well as the support of the civil rights movement. 48 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: And then you have President Richard Nixon who is investing 49 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: in this idea of black capitalism where he's putting money 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: in business. But one of the things that I think 51 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: is important to note is that none of these approaches 52 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: necessarily get at the root causes of structural inequality. But 53 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: you start to see business becoming part of the conversation. 54 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,399 Speaker 1: Business becomes part of the conversation, and it becomes part 55 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: of the community. You write about how these black owned 56 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: franchises of McDonald's shape the community around them. They it 57 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 1: goes beyond providing jobs. They play a leading cultural role. 58 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that, right, So, African American 59 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: franchise owners take on the role that black business owners 60 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: have historically taken on, and that means that they're providing 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: other resources and communities because of the color line in 62 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: government services and opportunities. So they're underwriting youth programs at schools, 63 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: They're making sure that first jobs are actually being created 64 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: in the communities. They are sponsoring things like the early 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Jr. Holiday. So you start to see 66 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: their influence not just in the business sector, but for history, 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: really black colleges and universities for the creation of the 68 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: All American basketball team. And so these black franchise owners 69 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: become incredibly visible and incredibly popular in these communities because, 70 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: as I say in my book, these communities are cut 71 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: off from federal resources and other types of opportunities in 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: order to have their needs met. So Dr Chaplin, how 73 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: far does it extend beyond McDonald's, because we do know 74 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: that today in the gap in wealth between Black Americans 75 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: and white Americans is massive. Why didn't this catch on 76 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: more beyond McDonald's. Well, I think that the reality is 77 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: is that you can't solve robust and complex and deep 78 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: social problems simply by um having business lead the way 79 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: that we have a public sphere, we have public policy, 80 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: we have public resources like taxes in order to do that. 81 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: But what it does reveal is that this moment that 82 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: McDonald's is in right now saying that they stand for 83 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: black lives donating to the c P, it's not new. 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: We have a fifty year plus history of McDonald's inserting 85 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: itself into the civil rights struggles so that they can 86 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: appear that they're on the right side of history. But 87 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: in this early period when McDonald's was extending the opportunity 88 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: for franchising, people did not have the full understanding of 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: the consequences of fast food on the American diet, as 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: well as the concerns about wages in the industry. Today, 91 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: supporting Black Lives visa v. McDonald's has more to do 92 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: with the quality of work and benefits and providing for 93 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: its people than some of these other solutions from the past. 94 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: Very well said, and I'm struck also by the parallels 95 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: to today, this idea that um companies, the private sector 96 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: kind of pick up the slack when the government, the 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: government up is unwilling or can't provide a lot of 98 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: the funding. How did you come to writing this book, well, 99 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: I was concerned about that very issue. I think that 100 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: this book is a story about how these relationships are complicated. 101 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: On one hand, we can't say that we're concerned about 102 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: the gap in nutrition and help outcomes and access in 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: African American communities without understanding the history of how fast 104 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: food became such a presence in certain parts of our country. 105 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: And we can't say that it's simply a matter of 106 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: giving people food choices and then they'll follow without understanding 107 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: the other kinds of relationships that businesses have with communities. 108 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: And we also have to remember that if we want 109 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: to solve problems, we have to invest in the public good, 110 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: the public sphere, and we can't allow corporations to lead 111 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: the way. So, Professor Challen, you've made a number of 112 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: references inviously. The book is set in many ways or 113 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: takes its uh takes its beginning from things that were 114 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: happening in the sixties, and he mentioned night there have 115 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: been so many parallels drawn, and we are just by 116 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: coincidence speaking to you on the day where the first 117 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: black president just eulogized someone who was deeply involved in 118 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: civil rights from the sixties on. You know talking about 119 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: the late John Lewis tell us the historical lens that 120 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: you used to look at in comparing and not just 121 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: limiting to to business n and there's so many parallels here. Well. 122 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: One of the things that I was struck. I had 123 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity to serve on a panel with Congressman Lewis, 124 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: and he described the moment after the teen election as 125 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 1: some of the most challenging and trying of his life, 126 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: which is an incredibly um poignant thing to hear from 127 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: someone who lived through so many times of turmoil. But 128 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: I think that at both moments sixty eight and today, 129 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: we have a growing consciousness among a larger group of 130 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: people about the problems of racial injustice. We are also 131 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: in the middle of a serious crisis with COVID, but 132 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: in eight we also saw the escalation of war in Vietnam, 133 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: and I think that the central question for all of 134 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: us is how do we step up and make sure 135 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: that communities get the resources they need. And like I 136 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: think today, there has been allowed of gestures on the 137 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: part of the private sector, but we're not seeing enough 138 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: in terms of again a government led public approach to 139 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: solving the problems of racial inequality. If sixty eight taught 140 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: us anything is that the businesses did not solve the 141 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: problems of racial injustice. It's on all of us in 142 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: communities in order to strategize to solve those problems. Yeah, 143 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: business can only go so far and should only go 144 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: so far because it's not their responsibility stimately, So as 145 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: we look ahead, um, at some point, the Trump administration 146 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: will end, whether it's after this November or four novembers 147 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: from now. What are you hearing from those who are 148 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: trying to run for office, whether it's the Biden campaign 149 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: or other political leaders that encourage you inter in so 150 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: far as thinking about how government is more committed to 151 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: ensuring more racial quality. Well, one of the things that 152 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: I think has been wonderful with the kind of what 153 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: they say the left wing party of the Democrats, the 154 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: Progressive Democrats, is that they're asking really good questions about 155 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: what does it mean for us to solve these problems. 156 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: They're not saying, um, simply all money should just be 157 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: poured into problems. It's being thoughtful again about wages, about 158 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: access to housing, about how we're going to make sure 159 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: that we have the best health care system possible. So 160 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: we don't see another tragedy like the ones that we're 161 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: living through. And so what I think is happening is 162 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: that people are becoming more critical of UM, how business 163 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: is conducted, there being more thoughtful about inviting problem solvers 164 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: who will really care about the quality of human life 165 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: and the dignity and the way people live. And I 166 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: think also in this you know, incredible moment, we see 167 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: the reinvigoration of the Poor People's Campaign UM with Reverend 168 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: William Barber who's saying that we actually have to have 169 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: the political will to solve the problems of poverty. And 170 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: so I think what we're having right now is this 171 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: incredible reckoning and it's up to all of us to 172 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: see it as a real moment to move closer and 173 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: closer to the kind of justice that John Lewis deserved 174 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: to see in his lifetime. Dr Chadlin, one last question 175 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: for you before we let you get back to it. 176 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: I do wonder, you know, as someone who is teaching 177 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: these issues and we are all living through, you know, 178 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: this moment in history, how does it change your curriculum? 179 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: What what are you gonna say to your students come fall? 180 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: And obviously I know enough to be angers about how 181 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: Georgetown is going to be organized. I know it's going 182 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: to be a hybrid uh situation, but but what do 183 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: you think about differently as you approach this next semester 184 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: while we just announced for going all online, and I 185 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: think right now for students, we need to see this 186 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: moment as not just a source of angst, but this 187 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: incredible opportunity because COVID and racial justice protests, all of 188 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: these things are giving us an opportunity to take a 189 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: closer look at where our society has failed. And we 190 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: have these incredible opportunities to really deliberate on how to 191 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: solve the problem. And so I think for my students, 192 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: what I want them to understand is that another world 193 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: is possible that in people couldn't see around the corner, 194 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: and so they do the best they could. But with 195 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: the knowledge of more history and with the knowledge um 196 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: that comes with more time, how are we going to 197 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: approach problems differently and how our generations in the future, 198 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: how are they going to see us and are they 199 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: going to be empathetic or are they going to be 200 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: critical of the things that we did and the things 201 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: that we failed to do well? Said Marcia Chaplin. She 202 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: is a professor of history and African American Studies at 203 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: one of the best universities in the world. I'm just 204 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: Georgetown University. Also author of the terrific book franchise, The 205 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: Golden Arches in Black America, incredibly timely out now pick 206 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: it up. It's a great read. Gives you so much 207 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: perspective on the economics of the racial question here and 208 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: the history, the complicated history, and the troubling history of 209 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: Black America.