1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe. Oh, and you're listening to 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: works where we talk to people about what works for 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: them in their relationships and of course what doesn't. Okay. So, 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: as you all know, Roger and I talk about relationships 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: on this show, but we are most definitely not experts. 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure all of our listeners know this by 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: now because we literally say it in every single episode. 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: But today's guest is actually a sought after psychotherapist who 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: regularly feels difficult and deeply personal questions about relationships, life challenges, 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: and way more so, she is everything that we're not. 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: We actually have a real therapist, So Lorie Golib, the 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: brilliant Lori Gotlib. She writes the Atlantics weekly Dear Therapist 13 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: advice column and as co host of the popular Dear 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Therapist podcast, produced by another one of my heroes, Katie 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: Kirk and Love Katie Kirk. In twenty nineteen, her Ted 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: Talk was one of the top ten most watched of 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: the year, and her book Maybe You Should Talk To 18 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: Someone has sold over a million copies and is currently 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: being adapted as a television series on ABC. I could 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: keep going about her accomplishments forever and ever and ever. 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: But I want to make sure we leave enough time 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: to actually talk to her, So I'll go ahead and 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: welcome the brilliant Lorie Gottlieb too works for us, So 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here with us. Lorie, welcome, 25 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: Oh my pleasure. It's so great to be here. It's 26 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: very exciting for us because we make a lot of 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: fun of ourselves because you know, it's funny. I think 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: I want to just start by saying, you know, we 29 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: always say sometimes as a mom, you kind of just 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: become like a doctor a little bit. You just are 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: because you, at some point or another, experience almost everything, 32 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: so you know how to take care of everything. And 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: I feel like, because Roger and I have been together 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: for thirty years, we will celebrate this August. And we 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: started works for us because people would constantly come to 36 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: us for relationship advice or like, how on earth does 37 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: this work for you guys? And how do you last 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: thirty years working together and parenting together and all of 39 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: these things and so, but the thing we very clearly 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: state is we are not, by trade an expert in this, 41 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: and you actually are. So we're so excited to talk 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: to you and first and foremost, I would love for 43 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: our audience to hear a little bit of your backstory 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: and your career journey. And I mean, I guess kind 45 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of what you're working on most now. Right. So I'm 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: a psychotherapist. I see mostly couples in my practice at 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: this point. And I am also somebody who came from 48 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: a background working in film and television and being a 49 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: journalist for many years. And so I have this hybrid 50 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: career where I have a private practice and I have 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: the Dear Therapist podcast, and I write books and I 52 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: write columns and really I'm just trying to democratize emotional health, 53 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: to really give people access to these conversations that everybody 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: wants to be having but they don't know how to 55 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: have them. So are you basically saying that we're doing 56 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: God's work? I think you just said that. I thought 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: you said that. No, I think what she's saying is 58 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: she is actually trying we're bringing the conversation closer to everyone. 59 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: Oh well, taboo to talk about relationship. No, well, it 60 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: definitely is not. And it's so interesting to talk to 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: you because you obviously are very credited in this m 62 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: and we're just going from our experience and things that 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: we've seen. And it's funny. I always say to my friends, 64 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: I feel like I've been divorced twelve times because I've 65 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: been through it so many times with friends, like I 66 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: feel like I've been through IVF because I've been through 67 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: it with such close friends. And I think at the 68 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: end of the day, it's something that I think now 69 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. But 70 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: I think social media has played such a big part, 71 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: in my opinion, democratizing emotional health, because I feel like 72 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: people are now posting and speaking about things that they 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: would have never even admitted to ever going through, you know, 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: whether it's postpartum or you know, like after you know, 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: pregnancy or anything, just all of these things. And I 76 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: think people were very ashamed and still are, but I 77 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: think it's becoming And thanks very much to you, because 78 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: it seems like that's definitely one of your missions to 79 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: kind of help people get more comfortable talking about the 80 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: things that are hard to talk about. I just wanted 81 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: to hear a little bit more about how you got 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: to where you are right because I'm sort of intrigued 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: in the fact that you said that you worked in 84 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: film and entintain man. I could just envision you being 85 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: on like the set of Spider Man and being like, 86 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: you know what I'm thinking. I'm thinking, I really just 87 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: want to have a thing. I'm going back to school. Like, so, 88 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: did you go to school for this after you had 89 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: a career? Yea, you know, it's not that it's not 90 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: that different from your your scenario. So after college, I 91 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: started working in film development. So I was doing development 92 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: for movies, and then I really liked television. I was 93 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: sort of obsessed with television at a time when TV 94 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: was not cool. At the time, it was like movies 95 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: was where it was out. And so to make the 96 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: move to TV, everyone kind of looked at you, like 97 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: what are you doing? But I moved over to NBC 98 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: and I did primetime series development. I was like a 99 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: junior executive there. And when I got there, it was 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: the year that two big shows we didn't know they 101 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: were going to be big, but two big shows were premiering. 102 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: One was called Er and the other bat Friends and 103 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: then Friends. Yeah, and by the way, that's when television 104 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: being you know what's being cool? You know what's cool. 105 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: Selling franchise rights to those series we'll see. What I 106 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: was interested in was the stories. And I think that 107 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: the sort of the through line through my career is 108 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: all about story and the human condition. I mean, even 109 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: as it comes like friends, it was so much about 110 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: things like relationships. Who are we at relationships? And who 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: are we in the world? And who are we to 112 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: each other? And how do we deal with heartbreak and 113 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: disappointment and confusion and identity? Right so in who is 114 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: family and what does that mean? And I think you know, 115 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: for er that we had a consultant who was a 116 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: real physician, who was an r physician, and I would 117 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: go hang out with him and you know, purportedly to 118 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: come up with story ideas, but really because I was 119 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: just fascinated by the ear. And at one point he 120 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: said to me said, you know, I think you like 121 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: it better here than you like your day job, because 122 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: I would never want to go back to my office. 123 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: And so he said, you know, maybe you should apply 124 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: to medical school, which I found hilarious because I was 125 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: a French major in college and so I was kind 126 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: of like, hmm, but I was the kind of math 127 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: sciencey person also, and you know, I was like the 128 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: only girl on the math team in my high school 129 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: and things like that. So there was sort of the 130 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: creative side and then the kind of more intellect actual side. 131 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: And so I took all the classes to go to 132 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: med school. I went up to I got into med school. 133 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: I went up to Stanford for med school. And when 134 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: I got there, everybody was talking about this new thing 135 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: called managed care. Where my whole idea was because of 136 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: story and the human condition. I was going to have 137 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: these patients that I would see throughout their lives, and 138 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: I was going to have all these relationships with my patients, 139 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: and it was going to be sort of like the 140 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: family doctor who guides people through their lives. And then 141 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: all of my professors were talking about that is not 142 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: going to be very realistic in this new environment of 143 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, the fifteen minute visit, about that all fifteen minutes, 144 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: mock yourself out exactly exactly, and so and so I 145 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: left to become a journalist. I started writing when I 146 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: was in medical school and writing about my experiences, and 147 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: then I became a journalist because I thought, I really 148 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: want to go deep and tell people's stories. And that's 149 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: what I did for ten years as a journalist, and 150 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: I I really loved what I did, and then I 151 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: had a baby, and for anybody who has had a baby, 152 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: I think they might recognize that kind of isolation that happens. Right, 153 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: You need like other adult humans to talk to you 154 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: in that time, and like a UPS guy would come 155 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: and deliver all the packages that you get in out 156 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: and be like, hey, how are you weather, you know, 157 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: and he would like back away to his big brown 158 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: truck to like get away from the crazy woman who 159 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: just had a baby, who's like super lonely and wants 160 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: to talk to people. And so I was like, I 161 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: need to do something about this. So I called up 162 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: the den at Stanford and I said, maybe I should 163 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: come back to medical school and do psychiatry, right because 164 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: I loved the mind. And she said, you know, you're 165 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: welcome to come back, but do you really want to 166 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: do that with a baby, with a toddler And besides, 167 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: you know a lot of psychiatry's medication management. It sounds 168 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: like what you want to do is do clinical psychology. 169 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: So she suggested that I go get a degree in 170 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: clinical psychology, which I did and I got you know, 171 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: took my boards and got licensed into the whole thing, 172 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: and I have this hybrid career where I feel like 173 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: I went from telling people's stories as a journalist to 174 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: helping people to change their stories as a therapist. And 175 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: that's really my focus. So cool, that is so interesting 176 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: and weirdly Okay, so in the total opposite, and I'll 177 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: spend thirty seconds on this. I actually was a psychology 178 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: and sociology major in college, and that was simply because 179 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: I was completely obsessed with the mind and how people 180 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: think and behave and why and relationships. I swear to God, 181 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: there is in a day that passes where I feel 182 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: like I don't use that subconscious knowledge and experience, right, 183 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: But opposite of you. When I realized I had to 184 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: go to a lot of extra school after I graduated, 185 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: I was like, Nope, detour, I'm just gonna and I 186 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: ended up using it quite a lot in my life 187 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: and in my career. But similar to you, I was 188 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: obsessed with the story and the relationship and the mind 189 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: and what makes people think and why they think that way, 190 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: and I ended up applying it into life now literally 191 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 1: doing what we're doing now. I love to hear people's 192 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: how they think and why they behave and what makes 193 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: them go and It's so fascinating and I love your story. 194 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: I love that you went back to like do more school. 195 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: Well it goes back at Stanford, by the way, it 196 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: goes back to you know, your passion is really going 197 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: to make you good at something. Yes, that's incredible. And wow, friends, 198 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: just saying, still my favorite show of all time, just saying, 199 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: so you touched on this and you said that you 200 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: specialize in couples or relationship therapy. I guess which is 201 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: so lucky for us because we have a relationship show. 202 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: This is so amazing. We might offline you. I mean, 203 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: but what is it like the most common I was 204 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: going to ask, what is the most common thing that 205 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: people say to you. I will say there's one gender 206 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: thing that happens a lot, and I you know, in 207 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: a heterosexual couple, but again I see all kinds of couples. 208 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: Usually what happens is, first of all, men will come 209 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: in and they'll say something like, you know, I've never 210 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: told anyone this before, And they literally have not told 211 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: a soul or even if they're happily married, even if 212 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: they have lots of friends. Women will come in and 213 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: they'll say, you know, I've never told anyone this before, 214 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: except for my mother, my sister, my best friend. Right, 215 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: so they like this whole is to people, but they 216 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: feel like they haven't told anyone. See, that's what I 217 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: always say to him when he says, I haven't told anyone. 218 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: He really hasn't told anyone. When I say I haven't 219 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: told anyone, there's three people I told exactly, exactly and so, 220 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: and how that comes across in couples is like, so, 221 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: usually it is, you know, somebody says to somebody else 222 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: in the couple. And so it might be a woman 223 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: who says to a man, you know, I really feel 224 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're close anymore. I don't know 225 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: what's going on inside of you. I want you to 226 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: open up to me. I want you to share with me. 227 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: And then he does, right, right, he does, and maybe 228 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: he starts crying, and maybe he starts crying a lot, 229 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: and she will look at me like a deer in headline, like, 230 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: oh my god. What comes out is she didn't feel 231 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: safe when he wasn't sharing with her, because she felt 232 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: like there was this distance between them and they weren't 233 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: really connected. But she didn't feel safe when he shared 234 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: that much. When he got that vulnerable with her. It's funny, 235 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: that's why you don't like when I drink that much 236 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. She wants me to be completely in control 237 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: at all times because i'm her safety. I'm just a 238 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: control freak. And when you're a safe person, isn't in control, 239 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: it like sets you into another place. Well, that's what 240 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: it is, safety exactly, it's it's safety, right, And so 241 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of like we have this idea that the 242 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: guy has to be the rock, he has to be 243 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: the solid one, he has to be anymore. Right, Well, 244 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: that's well you think in the olden days, but part 245 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: of your job is taking care of that stick my imagine. Well, right, 246 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 1: so it's this whole patriarchal notion that we have to dismantle. 247 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: And so even people who think that, they don't think 248 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: that when you see it happen in the therapy and 249 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: they're embarrassed, they're like, I don't I'm not a person 250 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: who believes this. And I'm like, well, on some level, 251 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: you do, right, because you just had that reaction. Sure, 252 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: I'm just going to paraphrase for a listeners what you said, 253 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: or should I do that because you're twist it? No, 254 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: I think I'd like to take a stab at it. 255 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: So men are trying to handle their business until their 256 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: significant others nag them to such an extent that they're 257 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: forced to discuss things with them. Then when they discuss 258 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: things with them, they're so appalled by the little babies 259 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: that they've married they want to paddle it back up, 260 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: and then it really doesn't prove hopefully, I don't know 261 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: that's what you meant it all, I think, okay, I 262 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: will rephrase that. Yes, why do you take that might 263 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: have been selective listening. I don't know. I might suffer 264 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: from an ailment. You could help me. The part that 265 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: I want to reframe on that is that it's not 266 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: that men don't want to be talking about this. It's 267 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: not like they have to get nagged into talking about it. 268 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: In fact, men feel such relief when they get to 269 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: talk about this. They want to talk about it. It's 270 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: really hard to hold everything inside, and so when men 271 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: are allowed to talk, it actually creates a much healthier relationship. 272 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: So it's not like they're feeling like, well, somebody has 273 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: to kind of pull it out of me. It's they 274 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: want to, but they don't feel like they can because 275 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: they feel like they'll be perceived as weak or or 276 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: their their partner won't um, you know, won't respect them 277 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: in the same way. And what do you think opposite 278 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: of that sort of what are some of the key 279 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: things that you see in the most successful like happy relationships, 280 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: Like what are the sort of common threads there, because 281 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: that's something we'd like to see because we know, like 282 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: on our podcast things people are there. Otherwise they want 283 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: to be just kidding. No, that's not Jim. Otherwise would 284 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: be yeah, that's jam. No it might be true. I 285 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: think one of the things that most couples struggle with 286 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: this perspective taking that you know, and this is what 287 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: my TED talk was about, was that how we're all 288 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: unreliable narrators, right, and so we come in and we 289 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: are so sure that our version of a story is 290 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: the accurate version, the one version of the story. And 291 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: when you see couples, you learn so much more than 292 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: when you see an individual who comes in and says 293 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: you like, my partner did this or my partner did that, 294 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: and I have to read between the lines because I 295 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: know it's just their their version, right. So when you 296 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: see a couple, you get to see, Wow, they really 297 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: have a hard time seeing the other person's perspective. They 298 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: have a hard time understanding why that person said what 299 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: they did, acted the way they did, did what they did, 300 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: whatever it is, And so it's it's really a good exercise. 301 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: On the Dear Therapist podcast, we had this guy come 302 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: in and he had cheated on his wife and left 303 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: her for the person that he had cheated with, and 304 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: common hard time, oh, common threat, right, But he couldn't 305 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: he couldn't take her perspective and he couldn't understand sort 306 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: of like why, you know why nobody understood that he 307 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: had been in pain too. And it's a really hard 308 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: thing because you don't feel a lot of empathy for it, 309 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: right until you hear more of the story, and until 310 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: he can have empathy for all of the pain that 311 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: he caused to so many people. Sure, and so that's 312 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: an extreme example, but I think just in the day 313 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: to day couple stuff, it's so hard for people to 314 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: not personalize things, to say this person did something because 315 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: of something going on with them, less so than something 316 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: going on with sure. Well, Roger and I used to say, 317 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: people that cheat, they're obviously not happy with something else. 318 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: There's something causing them to do that right, And then 319 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: my thing to that is always like, if you're not happy, 320 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: you have to leave, you don't cheat. But that's obviously 321 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: easier said than done and sounds simpler than it actually is. 322 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: But I think for me, cheating is something that isn't 323 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: ever okay. And I think lying those are like that's 324 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: like a thing with us, like there's no lying lying 325 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: it's not okay. So I don't know, But everybody's different 326 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: and everyone has different theories about relationships and what's expected. 327 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: I have friends that they haven't been you know, loyal, 328 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: and they got through it somehow. It wasn't the same 329 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: in my opinion. But you know, some couples can get 330 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: through that and they do because of children or whatever else. 331 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: But I think there is no exact right or wrong, 332 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: as you know, right, everybody's different. Yeah, And I think 333 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: the trust is very hard to rebuild. It takes two 334 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: people who really really want to do the work to 335 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: do that, Yes, and you have to find those couples 336 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: who are going to do that work. Otherwise you're right, 337 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: it won't the relationship will repair. Do you ever look 338 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: at people and say stop trying, This isn't going to work. Like, 339 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: do you ever say like you aren't going to put 340 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: the work in and don't waste your time? Not in 341 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: those words, obviously, but like, do you ever take that 342 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:26,239 Speaker 1: sort of like stance. Okay, So, as someone who has 343 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: always relied on my hair as my security blanket or 344 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: like my actual curtain to my soul and my everything, 345 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: I've always had a lot of hair, and I've always 346 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: held onto it. It's always been long and thick and full. 347 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: And after I had Skyler and Caius, I honestly was 348 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: afraid that my hair would never be the same. I 349 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: was breastfeeding, I had really full hair, and then all 350 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I didn't it totally thinned out. I 351 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: did not understand what was happening. I didn't think what 352 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: happened to me because I had so much hair, you know, 353 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: it was hard. I really like missed my full, thick, 354 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: natural hair. And what I learned in that moment is 355 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: that thousands of women, myself included, you know, really have 356 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: now thanks to Neutraful, I've taken back control of their 357 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: hair and it really works. I've seen it time and 358 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: time again. I've experienced it myself. I hear it from everybody. 359 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: I hear it from professional hairstylists that tell their clients 360 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: to take Neutraful. Neutriful offers two targeted formulas for women 361 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: that are clinically shown to really improve hair growth and 362 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: thickness with less shedding. No matter what your stage is 363 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: in your life, Neutral has a solution. Neutriful Women is 364 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: ideal if you're experiencing thinning hair caused by stress, dieting, overstyling, 365 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: which we all do, and environmental talk sins, while Women's 366 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: Balance is formulated with an additional hormone support for those 367 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: with thinning hair through menopause, which I hear so often. 368 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: It's just another struggle with aging that women are having. 369 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: Is hair loss. Healthier hair growth takes time, but you'll 370 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: actually begin to experience thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in 371 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: three to six months. And my personal experience after using 372 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: Neutraple consistently for three months, I really started to see 373 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: and feel a difference in my hair, and actually the 374 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: hair stylus that I work with noticed it, and they 375 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: said how incredible my hair looked and actually felt. In 376 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: a clinical study, eighty six percent of women reported improved 377 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: hair growth after six months, and more than fifteen hundred 378 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: top doctors recommend neutraple as an effective and high quality 379 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: solution for healthier hair. This is their best offer anywhere 380 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: and it's only available to US customers for a limited time. 381 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: You can grow thicker, healthier hair and support our show 382 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: by going to utrifol dot com and entering the promo 383 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: code zo zoe to save fifteen dollars off your first 384 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: month subscription. This is their best offer anywhere and it's 385 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: only available to US customers for a limited time. Plus 386 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: free shipping on every single order. Get fifteen dollars off 387 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: at neutrofol dot com spelled nutr afol dot com promo 388 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: code zo zoe. Like do you ever say like you 389 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: aren't going to put the work in and don't waste 390 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: your time? Not in those words obviously, but like, do 391 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: you ever take that sort of like stance? Oh? I 392 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: can use those words absolutely. I mean I think you 393 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 1: don't want to waste people's time, and so you have 394 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: to say, you know, are you really willing to do 395 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: what you need to do to rebuild this relationship? And 396 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: if you're not, then nothing good is going to come 397 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: of this for either of you. Yeah, do you believe 398 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: that opposites attract. Do you think that that's true? Because 399 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: I have ethereum that I don't think that opposites attract 400 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to values or the kind of life 401 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,239 Speaker 1: that you want to live. So you know, if you 402 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: have different values, no, that's not going to work. If 403 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: you have different ideas about how you want to live 404 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: your life, Like somebody wants to live in the city 405 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: and somebody wants to live in a rural area. Or 406 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: somebody wants kids and somebody doesn't want kids, right, you know, 407 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: what kind of life do you want together? Those things 408 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: don't tend to work very well. But I think that 409 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: some people can compliment each other with differences, like one 410 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: person is more creative and one person is more kind 411 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: of logical. You know, those are complementary opposites. I totally agree, 412 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: And I always say, like, because people are like, oh, 413 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: you guys are the same, I'm like, we are so different, 414 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: but at like, we approach things in such a different way, 415 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: and the things that get him upset are so different 416 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: than the things that get me upset. But at the 417 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: core we're the same. We have the same value system, 418 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: we have the same like well, I think comes at 419 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: the morals principles, things like that, you know how you 420 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: believe if your kids should be and you can probably 421 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: get through some of the rough stuff. Right. And there's 422 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: this saying we marry our unfinished business. Right, so we 423 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: almost had some waters home. What does that even mean? 424 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: It's like you married me because I'm good and pure, 425 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: and I married you because you're probably the darker side 426 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: of what Wait, I'd like to hear that the actual 427 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: trained therapist. Okay, fair, fair, but that was my take. 428 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: I would sort of like to balance out the things 429 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: you're not. That's true too. I think that's true too. 430 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: I think that we marry our unfinished business has a 431 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: lot to do with if you haven't worked through some 432 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: stuff from childhood that still feels hurtful to you. You 433 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 1: often pick partners who will hurt you in exactly the 434 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: same way. And what happens is we don't know that 435 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: we're doing that. So let's say you grew up with 436 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, it makes sense it's about to say something 437 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: or not just in my whole life and I married 438 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: someone who is a cause of constant rejection. This is 439 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: a breakthrough. Keep going, We'll have to do a session. 440 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: It sounds like that there's a lot of unpacking, except 441 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 1: that he's so sarcastic and he's actually never rejected. So 442 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: what happens is, let's say you grew up with a 443 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: parent who is not very emotionally available, or maybe you 444 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: grow up with a parent who drank too much, or 445 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: maybe you grow up with a parent who had an 446 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: anger problem, or you know, wasn't emotionally accessible. Whatever it is, 447 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: you tend to find people like that when you start dating, 448 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: and it initially the person looks very different, like the 449 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: person seems extremely emotionally available, because maybe they're like listening 450 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: a lot to you, but they're not actually sharing with you. 451 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: Or maybe you don't realize that you know, what seemed 452 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: like a fun person to go out with actually has 453 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: an alcohol problem, or you know, or a person who 454 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: you know is angry at other people but maybe not 455 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: at you. But then it later, you know, comes to you. 456 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: Whatever it is, you don't know it at first, but 457 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: you're unconscious does know. And so when you're unconscious sees 458 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: a person like that, you're unconsciousness too, Oh, you look familiar. 459 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: Come closer your conscious minds is you look completely different. 460 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: This is going to be great. I'm not going to 461 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: get hurt in the same way. And what we're doing 462 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: unconsciously is we're trying to win. This time. We're trying 463 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: to work through something that didn't work out in childhood, 464 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: and this time, because we're an adult, we're going to 465 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: master it with this person who seems different but is 466 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: actually the same. And so once you get into further 467 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: into the relationship with the person, you start to say, 468 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: oh God, this looks really different from what I thought 469 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: it was going to be. In fact, it feels like 470 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: home and not in a good way. Do you think 471 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: that that's so interesting? Do you think the opposite? But 472 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: do you think that that's what like when people say 473 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: that you have like daddy issues, Like you know, women 474 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: that like marry like much older you know, just are 475 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: with much older men and you're like, wait, and then 476 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: you know oftentimes they don't have a dad or you know, 477 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: they have they had issue, they have issues, they have 478 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: unresolved business. Is that sort of an example of that? Maybe? Yeah, absolutely. 479 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: In my book, maybe you should talk to someone. There's 480 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: a story that I there's a patient that I follow 481 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: with the woman named Charlotte, and she keeps dating guys 482 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: who completely disappoint her. In fact, she even starts dating 483 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: someone from the waiting room. I don't mean by the 484 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: way that they're like hooking up in the waiting room, 485 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: but like they meet in the waiting room and then 486 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: they they're hooking up. And then one day he comes 487 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: with another woman who is his girlfriend, right in the 488 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: waiting room, and it's she's seeing another person. He's seeing 489 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: another person in the practice, And I don't know what 490 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: his deal is because I can't you talk to the 491 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: other therapist about it, but I know that it's going 492 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: to be bad news, because she always picks guys who 493 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: are bad news. And it has a lot to do 494 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: with this inconsistency in her childhood of both of her parents. 495 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: Her mother was depressed, and so her mother would sometimes 496 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: be very available and sometimes not available. Her father was 497 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: like always on business trips and then come back, but 498 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: he was very unreliable, and she just didn't know who 499 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: she could count on, and those are the kinds of 500 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: guys she would pick until she started working out the 501 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: stuff with her parents and giving up the hope for 502 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: having a better childhood. I think against so many times 503 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: people are trying to kind of redo their childhood in 504 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: their adult relationships and you don't get a redo, and 505 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: certainly not with your romantic partner. That's a very, very 506 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: very interesting point that I've never actually thought of. I 507 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: would say that, you know, I had a very happy childhood, 508 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: parents together, within the suburbs, you know, upper middle whatever, normal, 509 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: if you will, if there is a normal, and I 510 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: would say, Rachel, you know, very similar, you know, even 511 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: more more affluent, but just similar relationship. You know, our 512 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: parents are still together now. My parents were together before 513 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: they passed. So I guess that's an example. So do 514 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: you think that, well, I guess two things. A happy 515 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: childhood which may actually include two parents being together. Still, 516 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you could have happy children 517 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: that have divorced parents, of course, But do you think 518 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: that the kids that come from happy childhoods have a 519 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: better chance of being in a happy relationship and if 520 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: they end? Is the happy childhood sort of predicated in 521 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: the fact that both mommy and either were there, unavailable 522 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: and all that good stuff. Yeah, I don't think it's 523 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: about whether your parents were together. I think it's about 524 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: what we call securely attached kids. So securely attached kids 525 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: or kids who feel like they have adults who are 526 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: there for them. And by that I don't mean the 527 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: perfect this this like idea of helicopter parenting is not 528 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: what I'm talking. We talk about the good enough parents. 529 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: And so, you know, were your parents attuned to you, 530 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: were they able to give you freedom, were they able 531 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: to be supportive when you needed it? You know, could 532 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: they talk about difficult things with you that you need 533 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: to talk about. You know, just the secure attachment. And 534 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: you can have that in any kind of family, whatever 535 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: the family looks like. But you know, you will have, 536 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, parents who are married and it's a disaster 537 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: for the kids. You will have parents who are divorced 538 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: and they co parent beautifully and it's a wonderful childhood 539 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: for the kids. Yeah, I've seen that too. A lot 540 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: of my friends that really struggle in relationships came from 541 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: parents that were married several times and they have such 542 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: a low expectation of what happiness could be, an expectation 543 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: of marriage and what a cannon should be. I also 544 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: friends that came from parents that were together forever, not 545 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: necessarily happy, but we're together, and they're just sort of like, 546 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if there is love. I don't know 547 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: if there is that you know and so I've seen. It's, 548 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: like I said, I feel weirdly like an totally untrained 549 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: expert in the things that I've been through and that 550 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: we've been through with people in our lives. But I 551 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: think what you're saying is so interesting and so true. 552 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we can talk to you for like twelve 553 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is amazing, but we can't because 554 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: it's pot But another question, because again I'm almost like, 555 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: even in a weird way, we're not divorce or you know, 556 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: God for been thinking about it, but you know, obviously 557 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: many of my friends have been. And what I'm noticing 558 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: more and more and more and more, it's like a 559 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: you kind of knew this person was sort of who 560 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: this person was ten years ago or fifteen years ago, 561 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: and they're just sort of waking up to that reality 562 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: that and then now they're they're the worst. Like I 563 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: cannot believe my wife was so this, so that it's like, 564 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: what do you mean, well, I told you not to 565 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: a g X y Z friend like that was like 566 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: her most, Like we knew that, like her most, you know, 567 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: her calling card? Like what so are people just blinded 568 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: by love? Like what is it? Well again I think 569 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: that's the compartmentalization that their unconsciousness drawing them to that 570 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: thing that everybody else says, whoa run, run really fast 571 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: the other way, right, And they're unconsciousness saying, oh no, 572 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: run towards that, and so they compartmentalize it and they're 573 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: not really paying attention to it until it becomes problematic. Wow, 574 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: that's really interesting because I never I've obviously heard, as 575 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: Roger said earlier, like oh she has daddy issues like that. 576 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: I've seen that's a common thread, especially here in LA. 577 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: You've said that stories form the core of our lives, right, 578 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: So did you come to that from personal experience, from 579 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: your educational experience. I'm just curious. Was this just like 580 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: things that you've been hearing? I mean, that's what does 581 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: it really mean? I mean stories form the core of 582 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: our lives? It sounds like yeah, it's like, you know, 583 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: it's a narrative. You're ongoing narrative or something. So, right, 584 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: so we're all writing our story every day, we're all 585 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: telling how our lives are going through story. Here's what happened. 586 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: Let me tell you about this, and she said this, 587 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 1: and he said this, and here's what happened. And we 588 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: make sense of our lives in a certain way. But 589 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: we also have these stories that are running in the background, 590 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: and so when we're talking about childhood, some of these 591 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: stories are formed very early on, things like I'm unlovable 592 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: or nothing will ever work out for me, or I 593 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: can't trust people. And there might be good stories like 594 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: I am lovable and the world is a safe place. Right. 595 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: So there are these stories that we carry around with us, 596 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: and then every choice, behavior, action is dictated by that story. 597 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: So we think that everything that we do is kind 598 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: of an independent decision, but it's not. It's being guided 599 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: by this unconscious story that we're carrying around with us. 600 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: And at a certain point, as an adult, who start 601 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: to say, is this story true? Right? Like? You know it? Do? I? 602 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: Is it a self fulfilling prophecy? Because I'm I'm like 603 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: making it come true and all of the choices that 604 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: I make. But does it have to be true? What 605 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: would happen if I edited this story? And so I 606 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: feel like, as a therapist, and because of my writing background, 607 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: what I'm really doing when I'm sitting in the therapist 608 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: chair is I'm helping people to edit their stories. I'm 609 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: helping them to say, wait a minute, who is the protagonist? Here? 610 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: Is the protagonist going in circles? Or is the protagonists 611 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: moving forward? Who are the major characters, the minor characters, 612 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: the heroes, the villains. What are some of the themes 613 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: and the Where are the places where the narrator is unreliable? 614 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: Where are the places where this story needs editing? Where 615 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: are the places where we need another perspective or another 616 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: point of view in here? So everything that I do 617 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: was a writer, I do in the therapy room with 618 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: people to help them to really examine their stories and 619 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: see whether they're serving them. Wow, it's so interesting. So 620 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: it's like when Roger says, I don't know patience. My 621 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: dad didn't have patience, but he could be like, wait, 622 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: I can try to have patience and rewrite this story. 623 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: Like that would be a good example. Pretty happy with 624 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 1: my story. This show is brought to you by our 625 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: show's new sponsor, Better Help Online Therapy. We try our 626 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: hardest to take care of our bodies, but what about 627 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: our minds. Without a healthy mind, so many other areas 628 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: of our lives can suffer. The good news is therapy 629 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: really works if you're facing depression, anxiety, stress, postpartum depression, PTSD, 630 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: or any other mental issue. Note that thinks to Better 631 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 1: Help easy online therapy is more accessible than ever before. 632 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: Better Help is customized online therapy that offers video, phone 633 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: and even live chat sessions with your therapist. But you 634 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't 635 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: want to, which, trust me, is sometimes so much easier 636 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: for people. The idea is to get the support you 637 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: need in a way that makes you feel the most comfortable. 638 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: Better Help is so much more affordable than in person therapy, 639 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: and you can start communicating with your therapist in under 640 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: forty eight hours. You won't have to wait or schedule 641 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: an appointment two weeks out like a typical in office therapist. 642 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: You'll actually get to communicate with your therapist within two days. 643 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: That's pretty incredible. I know so many people who love 644 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: better Help. They are using it constantly. It has saved 645 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: them from such a hard time after this long year 646 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: that so many people are struggling with their emotional mental health. 647 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: I cannot recommend better Help enough. I cannot explain how 648 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: many people I know that are just singing its praises. 649 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: So join the millions of people who are seeing what 650 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: therapy is really about. It's always a good time to 651 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: invest in yourself because you are your greatest asset. Don't 652 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: forget that. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help and 653 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: Works for Us. Listeners get ten percent off their first 654 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 1: month at betterhelp dot com slash works. That's b E 655 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: T T E r h E LP dot com slash 656 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: works and rewrite this story like that would be a 657 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: good example. I'm pretty happy with my story. So here's 658 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: the thing about that. I love that because what happens 659 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: is a lot of times couples come in and they 660 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: want something to change, right, and what they want to 661 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: change is the other person. Right. So when you say, 662 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: when you say this thing about patients, so many people 663 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: will say, like, but every week we talk about this 664 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: and he or she or they whatever, they're not changing. 665 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: They're not changing. And I say, maybe that's because they 666 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: don't want to change. And the older you get, the 667 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: lesson what right do you have as the partner to 668 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: make them a change versus what versus what? It's all? 669 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: And also also like that's what you know growing is 670 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: all about, right? I think that we have this idea 671 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: that because I want my partner to change, and because 672 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm right, which is what we think we are, then 673 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: my partner should change. It's reasonable that he should have 674 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 1: more patience, right, but he might not want to have 675 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: more patience. Doesn't everyone want to have more patience? No? No, 676 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: See he's very clear, disabuse you of that notion right now. 677 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: There's no reason to spend that much time on like 678 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: such stupid crap like move on right right. So then 679 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: the question is how do you respond to his lack 680 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: of patients? You know what I did. This is what 681 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: I swear to God, and I tell him this all 682 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: the time. I've been very open about this and I've 683 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: actually done it with quite a few friends. And I'm 684 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: not sure as a professional in this you're going to 685 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: agree with my theory. But I've actually really spoken to 686 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: a lot of my girlfriends and I really said, lower 687 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: the expectation. I think once we become mothers, I think 688 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: that we are completely consumed between work, kids, everything, and 689 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: I think we just kind of try and do it all. 690 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: And I think what happens, for better for worse is 691 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,280 Speaker 1: as women we start to then expect more from our husbands. 692 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: And our husbands were always like attentive to us, right 693 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: like pre children and that wasn't a problem. They could 694 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: do work and they could do us right, and that 695 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: was fine. Then you add children, and then all of 696 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: a sudden they don't have their me time or anything 697 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: like that. And what I really had a little dog 698 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: named Goldie. But then what I realized is, and I 699 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: mean this actually not being insulting. Actually I'm dead serious. 700 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: I don't mean it as an attack on men, because 701 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: I actually really love men. But I guess my point 702 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: is is that I think that we demand this of ourselves. 703 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: We decide this is how we're going to run our 704 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: lives and be there ten thousand percent for children, for 705 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: a dog, for whatever it is, for the husband, whatever 706 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: it is. But I think by expecting that they're right 707 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: there with us, thinking exactly the same way and like 708 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: ready for all of that. I just think we're built 709 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,879 Speaker 1: differently as species, men and women. And I think that 710 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: what I realized was just when I say lower the expectation, 711 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: I think it just means like this, this is how 712 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm choosing to deal with it. But I'm not going 713 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: to also expect that this is how you're going to 714 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: deal with life the same exact way. And I think 715 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: when you do that it's like, you know, I do 716 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: believe as women, we have this instinct that you know, 717 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: you have four hundred eyes around your head, right, your 718 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: child is in the back corner behind you, but you 719 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: know exactly what they're doing, Whereas I think sometimes men 720 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,279 Speaker 1: will be in a deep conversation and not remember their 721 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: child might actually be in that back corner. And I 722 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: don't mean that in a mean way. I just mean like, 723 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: sometimes there's things that we think about and again not 724 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: saying better or worse, I just felt like, if you 725 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: don't expect so many things all the time and assume 726 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: that they know what you're thinking all the time, that's 727 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: really helpful. You know, I would say, do not lower 728 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: your expectations. You guys are different people, right, I under 729 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: so much a gender thing. So I want to say 730 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: this is this is like for any couple, This isn't 731 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: a gender thing that different people and you have different 732 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: ways of being. So it's not necessarily that he doesn't 733 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: have patience. It's that the way that you come at 734 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: him with things, right, he feels flooded. He feels like 735 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: this is too much, this is too much for me totally, 736 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: that's right. So he's yeah, so that's the way instituted 737 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: a text policy so she couldn't wake up in the morning. 738 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: Now she texts me all the time airplane mode. No, 739 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: now she knows. Now, she just texts me all the 740 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: things I have to do so that I can get 741 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: to them at my leisure. Right. But if you're talking right, 742 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: but right, so if if if the conversation is always 743 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: like and here's the list, and here's the to do 744 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: list and all that, well, of course, right, you know, 745 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: that's that's not necessarily about not having patience. That's about 746 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: how do you guys communicate around running a household. And 747 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: that's a different that's a different kind of conversation totally. 748 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: Of course. I mean to like kind of like paint 749 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: it like men or Neanderthals and they don't really have 750 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: the capacity. No, I think that. I don't mean that. 751 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: I don't say it as an insulting way. I just mean, like, 752 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: I really believe everything she's saying, and I'd like to 753 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: hear moreh It's no, No, it's not that, I guess 754 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: because I do want to defend that. I don't think 755 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: that of men at all. I just mean that. I 756 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: just mean that it's because of the way we may 757 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: handle things. Whether it's the guy or the girl, or 758 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: two dads or two moms, it doesn't make any difference. 759 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: But I guess what I'm saying is like people are different. 760 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: And when I say manage the expectation, it's like, because 761 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: this is my approach to parenting or looking after the 762 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: house or whatever, I'm not going to try and make 763 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: you do what I'm doing, no matter what sex you are. 764 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: I just mean, like, in particular my girl friends when 765 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: they're like, he doesn't help me with this, and he 766 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: doesn't help me with that, and he's not doing anything 767 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: with the kids, and he doesn't even I'm down here 768 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: scrubbing the bathroom and he doesn't even offer to help, 769 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: and I'm like, tell him you need help, you know. 770 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: I'm like, because he can't read your mind, he thinks 771 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: you got this, you know. But also there's so there's 772 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: a different priority going on here. So you might be 773 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: downstairs scrubbing the bathroom floor and he's like, oh, I 774 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: didn't even think it was dirty, right, or like it 775 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 1: didn't bother me, and so and so then there's this 776 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: catch twenty two of well it bothers me, and I 777 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: want you to go do something about it. Yeah, but 778 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: but it doesn't bother him, right and in that way, 779 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: and that's a different issue. And by the way, I'm 780 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: not scrabbing the bathroom floor. I was trying to picture that. 781 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: But but I think the thing is is that you 782 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: have to say, like I had a couple come in 783 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: and she was like, he does nothing. He is like deadweight. 784 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: Show you hear that every She literally used that word. 785 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: It was you know, she was so upset and and 786 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: he said, well, hey, you just do everything, and then 787 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: when I do it, you tell me I do it. 788 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: I don't do it the right way, wrong and right. 789 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: And so I said, what would happen if you just 790 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: stopped doing those things to her? If you stopped doing 791 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: those things that you want him to do. She's like, 792 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: it would never get done. He's like, yeah, would it 793 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: just would get done in a different way. And so 794 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: I said, I want you to just experiment this week 795 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: and try for one week to just not do the 796 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: things that whenever you feel resentful that you're doing something, 797 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: just don't do it. Well, he started to notice because 798 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: it's like they needed groceries and they were out of things, 799 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: and like the kids were like running around and no 800 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: one was supervising them, and so you know, he was like, 801 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: oh right, but but he did it his way and 802 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: she was like just sitting there just like you know, 803 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 1: painting her nails, and she was like loving this. Why 804 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: don't we do this earlier? Right? And so why don't 805 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: we do it is because we feel like, not only 806 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: do we want it done, but we want it done 807 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: in a very specific way. Oh my god, I love 808 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: you so much for saying that. I just think people 809 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: are like that. I think in every relationship I know, 810 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: there's one. I think what I I think what I've noticed. 811 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 1: I think it comes down to what is your version 812 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 1: of being like a good dad? My version of how 813 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: I am is really good, you know, I don't you 814 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So if her version is different, 815 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: I just think it's what her version of a dad 816 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: looks like. Do you know what I'm saying? But she's 817 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: putting that on me, like, hey, you know, I'm I'm 818 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: pretty good here. Well, I hear things like I hear 819 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: things like you know, so I wanted him to like 820 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: I went out and I came back and they were 821 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: like all sitting in front of the TV and they've 822 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: been doing that for two hours, and it's like when 823 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm with the kids, like we're reading books and we're 824 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: doing arts and crafts and you know, whatever we're doing, 825 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, yes, but the kids were having a 826 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: good time and they were safe, and they were happy, 827 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: and they were bonding with one of their parents. And 828 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 1: so that that's where these problems arise, is like, it's 829 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: so great for kids to be exposed to different parenting 830 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: styles and as long as you agree on sort of 831 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: the main values again, but but you know these ideas 832 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: of like we have to parents in exactly the same way, 833 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: instead of exposing our kids to two different people who 834 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: are both our parents and we have different experiences with them, 835 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: that's great for them. I have a very very important 836 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: question because I think this it's a fully loaded question, 837 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,120 Speaker 1: yet a short question. Do you believe that people are 838 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: capable of change? Yes? Absolutely. So many people say to me, 839 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, being a therapist must be so depressing 840 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 1: because you just hear people's stories of pain all day 841 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, that's not what I do at all. 842 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: So I see is change and transformation, and I think 843 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: most big transformations come about from the tiny almost imperceptible 844 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: steps that we take along the way. And that's what 845 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: I see week after week after week, is people doing something, 846 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: moving out of their comfort zone, trying something new, editing 847 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: their story, having different reactions in relationships, being able to 848 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: have a different kind of intimacy that they never felt 849 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: comfortable having, being able to get close to people in 850 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: a way that they never knew possible. So for me, 851 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: I think people are absolutely able to change, but we 852 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: have to realize that change comes with loss. So a 853 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: lot of people think, well, if I'm making a positive change, 854 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: isn't that a great thing? Like, you know, it's like 855 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 1: this is why New Year's resolutions fail all the time. 856 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to make a positive change, and then it 857 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: doesn't last because there are stages of change, and so, yeah, 858 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: you're giving up something that you're familiar with, and we 859 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 1: don't like that because humans don't do well with uncertainty. 860 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,280 Speaker 1: So even if the familiar is like this miserable situation 861 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: or an unpleasant situation, at least we know what it is. 862 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,400 Speaker 1: The new situation we haven't been in yet. But there 863 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: are these stages of change, and it starts with pre contemplation, 864 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: where you don't even know you're thinking about changing, to 865 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: contemplation where you know you're thinking about it, to preparation 866 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: where you're making the preparation the steps to do it, 867 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: but you're not taking action yet. Then action is where 868 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: you make the change. But that's not the end of 869 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: the change. That's where New Year's resolutions fail there they 870 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: stop at action. The phase that's most important in making 871 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: change is maintenance, and that is how do I maintain 872 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: the change? And people think that once you make a change, 873 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: if you then slip back, you've failed. Experiment over, forget it, 874 00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: I'm incapable of change, and that's just not true. You 875 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: know that you're going to slip back because we're human 876 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: and we're not perfect. And so if you know that 877 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: in the maintenance phase, you're going to slip back, you're 878 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: going to yell at your partner in a way that 879 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: you told yourself you weren't going to. You're going to 880 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 1: eat the thing you said you wouldn't. You know, you're 881 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: gonna treat your child in a way that you said 882 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,919 Speaker 1: you wouldn't. Whatever it is, then you just get back 883 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: on track. And that's just part of the change. It's 884 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: not linear, it's like it's kind of like it goes 885 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: up and down, and over time it becomes more consistent 886 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: and you get more consistent in maintaining the change. Interesting, yeah, pe, 887 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,720 Speaker 1: very interesting. I have We have like a few final 888 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: questions for you. One very important obviously coming off the 889 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: most insane year probably of anybody's life. What have been 890 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: some of your professional takeaways from this pandemic year? And 891 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: do you think it was a catalyst for a lot 892 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: of relationships I mean or worse, because you know, I've 893 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: seen both. I've seen more breakups and then more pregnancies 894 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: than I've ever seen in any year. But also, what 895 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: are the different along the same question, what are they're different? 896 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,839 Speaker 1: How have the questions changed right that you're getting asked? 897 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: I think that would be a really good idea of that, 898 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: you know what people were on their mind before now 899 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: or maybe they haven't. Yeah, I think that whatever couples 900 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: were experiencing before the pandemic were amplified during the pandemic. 901 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 1: So if they had a strong relationship, it became stronger. 902 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: If they had a lot of conflict in their relationship, 903 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: it was magnified. It's been interesting doing couples therapy during 904 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: the pandemic because it's all online, and so it's a 905 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: very different experience. And in my book I wrote about 906 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: how you know, one of my colleagues had said that 907 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,320 Speaker 1: doing therapy online was like doing therapy with a condom 908 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: on because it's as well, as we all learned this year, 909 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,879 Speaker 1: there's nothing that can mimic the experience of being face 910 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: to face with people. It's a completely different kind of 911 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: human experience. The energy in the room, you can hear 912 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: them breathe, You're seeing the same things. But people have 913 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: had to do had to do this in the privacy 914 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: of their homes. But I've seen so much more happen 915 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: because it is the privacy of their homes and they 916 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: think that people are just kind of like acting the 917 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,400 Speaker 1: way they do in their natural environment. And so I 918 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: think it's been incredibly helpful for a lot of couples. 919 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,000 Speaker 1: And I also think the one thing that's taboo to 920 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: talk about about the pandemic is this idea of like, 921 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: what has been good for us? How have we grown 922 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: during this time, or things that we discovered about ourselves 923 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: that I think it forced us to prioritize what are 924 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 1: the relationships that are important to us, What are the 925 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: relationships that maybe took up a lot of emotional real 926 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: estate that we don't want to anymore. Definitely, I've heard 927 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: that from a lot of people. We've done that cleansing friends, 928 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,240 Speaker 1: people you don't want in your life, that annoyed you before, 929 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 1: and you realize how much you don't miss them or 930 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: need them in their life. So obviously proximitying ease is 931 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: a a poor replacement for actual friendship. Right, Oh, the 932 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: person lives near the yeah, I run into them all 933 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,360 Speaker 1: the time. But when you actually have to make a 934 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,280 Speaker 1: real plan or get in a zoom call or whatever 935 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: to actually just because you want to talk to that 936 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: person and catch up. I think, you know, I think 937 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,600 Speaker 1: the priority list gets you know, short and real quick, 938 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: and I think that's what that's what happened to everyone. 939 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's a good thing because I think 940 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 1: now even things like people are saying, you know, what 941 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: do I want to do professionally because I don't want 942 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: to commute to work or I want to work from 943 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 1: home some days, or there's this other thing, this other 944 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: passion that I discovered during the pandemic, And it's so 945 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: politically incorrect to talk about because it was it happened 946 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: alongside so much devastation and suffering and loss, but both 947 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 1: can be true. It's like both and and if we 948 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 1: can hold both at the same time, I think we 949 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: will come out of this much stronger. I totally agree. 950 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: And I do want to say one thing that maybe 951 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: you should talk to someone is actually being developed into 952 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: it TV series, So your your worlds are actually coming 953 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,319 Speaker 1: back and colliding full circle, which is so exciting, and 954 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going to be fully obsessed with 955 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 1: this show. Is it going to be like friends grown up? 956 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: Like I think, you know, therapists and the media have 957 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 1: been portrayed as either like the brick wall, you know, 958 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: the person who doesn't talk, who's just kind of like 959 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,319 Speaker 1: there and they are hunt and you know whatever. I'm 960 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: like looking at their sort of like at that money 961 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,680 Speaker 1: at that time, so they're just right. And I think 962 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: the other one is sort of like they're the hot mess. Right. 963 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,320 Speaker 1: They're like the person like you know, who's like crossing 964 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,640 Speaker 1: boundaries and sleeping with their patients and you know, like 965 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,799 Speaker 1: they can't get their own lives together and whatever it 966 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: is um And neither of those is a you know 967 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: what therapists really are, I say, at the beginning of 968 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: maybe you should talk to someone that my most significant 969 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,759 Speaker 1: credential is that I'm a card carrying member of the 970 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,759 Speaker 1: human race. That I know what it's like to be 971 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: a person in the world, and so of course I 972 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 1: use all of my training, but I also use my 973 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 1: humanity to help people. And in the TV show, it's 974 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 1: really a show less about therapist than a person who 975 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,760 Speaker 1: happens to be a therapist. Right, distinction is really important. 976 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,200 Speaker 1: This is incredible, this is really fun for us, a 977 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,360 Speaker 1: total honor to have you on works for us, And 978 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, we were really exciting lists with any 979 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 1: parting words encouragement, best piece of advice from our relationship, 980 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: by the way, not just couples, but like any actual relationship, 981 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: like any kind of relationship. So I really enjoy shopping myself, 982 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: but I also understand that it does require time and work. 983 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,399 Speaker 1: Not everyone, of course, is up to that challenge. There 984 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: are people out there, like Roger of course, that just 985 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,240 Speaker 1: don't have the patients to shop ever, and I totally 986 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: get it. Shopping can be confusing, It can be overwhelming 987 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 1: finding pieces with a great fit, and returns in general 988 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,839 Speaker 1: can be annoying and really challenging. And difficult. But that's 989 00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: why using stitch fix is actually the perfect solution. Stitch 990 00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: Fix offers clothing hand selected by expert stylists for your 991 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,960 Speaker 1: unique size, style, and of course budget. It's a completely 992 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: different and fun way to find clothes that you will 993 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: love to wear. I'm telling you, it's the easy solution 994 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: to finding clothes that actually work for you. I know 995 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 1: countless people that rely on stitchfix and their experts to 996 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: just supply their wardrobe. They love it. It's so easy. 997 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: They don't have to think about it. They pick what 998 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,800 Speaker 1: they want to keep, return what they don't for themselves, 999 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: for their husbands, for their children. You try pieces on 1000 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,720 Speaker 1: at home before you buy, keep what you love, return 1001 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,720 Speaker 1: what you don't. It's so simple. Stitch pix has free shipping, 1002 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,919 Speaker 1: easy returns and exchanges, and a prepaid return envelope is included, which, 1003 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: in my opinion, huge bonus. If you're worried about committing 1004 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,759 Speaker 1: to a subscription, don't be. There's no subscription required. Try 1005 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: stitch fix once or set up automatic deliveries. You'll pay 1006 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,960 Speaker 1: just a twenty dollars styling fee for each box, which 1007 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: gets credited towards pieces you keep. I honestly can't think 1008 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: of anything better, and there are no hidden fees ever. 1009 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 1: Stitch Fix has styles and clothing to fit any occasion 1010 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,400 Speaker 1: for women, men, and kids. They ship all over the 1011 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,160 Speaker 1: US and available in the UK as well. Get started 1012 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: today at stitchfix dot com slash though Zoe and you'll 1013 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,839 Speaker 1: get twenty five percent off when you keep everything in 1014 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: your fix that stitch fix dot com slash though for 1015 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 1: twenty five percent off when you keep everything in your 1016 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:48,879 Speaker 1: fix stitch fix dot com slash though Zoe. Yeah. Well, 1017 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,080 Speaker 1: when I think of relationships, I also think about our 1018 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,799 Speaker 1: relationship to ourselves, and I think that in order to 1019 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 1: have a strong relationship with somebody else, you have to 1020 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: have a good relationship with yourself. And so many of us, 1021 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 1: especially women, I would say, are so unkind to ourselves. 1022 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,399 Speaker 1: We are like so cruel to ourselves and we don't 1023 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: even realize it. So when I give talks, I'll often 1024 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: say to people you know from the stage, like show 1025 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 1: of hands, how many you know? Who's the person that 1026 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,320 Speaker 1: you talk to most in the course of your life? 1027 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,799 Speaker 1: Is it your partner? Lots of hands? Is it your parent? 1028 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,000 Speaker 1: Is it your best friend? Is it your sibling? So 1029 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,959 Speaker 1: that's who people think it is. But really the person 1030 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,840 Speaker 1: we talk to most in the course of our lives 1031 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: is ourselves, and what we say to ourselves isn't always 1032 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: kind or true or useful. So I had this woman 1033 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: cook into therapy and she was so self critical and 1034 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,600 Speaker 1: just did not realize it. And I said, I want 1035 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,279 Speaker 1: you to go home and write down everything you say 1036 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 1: to yourself over the course of a few days and 1037 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,359 Speaker 1: come back and we'll talk about it next week. So 1038 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,600 Speaker 1: she comes back the next week. She dutifully like put 1039 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: everything in her phone. She starts to read it and 1040 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,200 Speaker 1: she starts crying and she's choking up. She says, I 1041 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,320 Speaker 1: can't even read this. I am such a bully to myself. 1042 00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,919 Speaker 1: And they were things like she did something with her kid, 1043 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,880 Speaker 1: you know, like just she had a moment where she 1044 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,959 Speaker 1: snapped at her kids. She's like, you're a terrible mom. 1045 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,120 Speaker 1: Or you know, she was typing an email and she 1046 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: made a mistake and she said, oh my god, you're 1047 00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: so stupid. Or she caught a reflection and she's like, 1048 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,000 Speaker 1: you look horrible. You would never say that to a 1049 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,600 Speaker 1: friend because you wouldn't think that, you wouldn't think she 1050 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,279 Speaker 1: was a terrible mom for that one moment or that 1051 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 1: one email, or that one you know moment she caught 1052 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,280 Speaker 1: herself in the mirror. But we can be so unkind 1053 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: to ourselves. And so I really want to encourage people 1054 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: to notice what that voice says. It's like a radio 1055 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 1: station playing in the background. Change the station if it's 1056 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 1: if you have like the mean bully station on like, 1057 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,759 Speaker 1: change it to something kinder, because we need to be 1058 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,440 Speaker 1: kind to ourselves to have a good relationship with ourselves 1059 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:46,440 Speaker 1: so we can have good relationships with others. Wow, drop 1060 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,359 Speaker 1: the mic, right, I'm totally one, and now I'm gonna 1061 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,120 Speaker 1: go be nice to myself. Yeah. I actually I give 1062 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,839 Speaker 1: Rachel that advice all the time. She needs to enjoy 1063 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,719 Speaker 1: herself more. Stopping such a martyr. I would say, don't 1064 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: be a martyr for everything, you all, you don't have 1065 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 1: to do it. You know, you don't have to die 1066 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 1: in the sword for every thing like other people could 1067 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,480 Speaker 1: do things. Life will be okay, Like I think it'll 1068 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: get done, like your soul up. I think it's I 1069 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,400 Speaker 1: think it's this idea that we are enough that maybe 1070 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: we have things we want to work on. There are 1071 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: things we want to do in life. There are ways 1072 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: we want to grow or change, but that doesn't mean 1073 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,920 Speaker 1: that we aren't enough. And so many times when we 1074 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 1: get down on ourselves, we feel like something is wrong 1075 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: with me, or everybody else is better than me at this, 1076 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: or you know, I'm not I'm not enough, I'm not 1077 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 1: good enough, And I think that's a really dangerous way 1078 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: to go through life. That's a story that often we 1079 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,799 Speaker 1: carry around with ourselves, and social media can make us 1080 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,080 Speaker 1: feel like that. Alone. I was going to say, I 1081 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,759 Speaker 1: know more people than not myself included. I mean, we're 1082 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,080 Speaker 1: all hard on ourselves, so we just are. I mean, 1083 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,000 Speaker 1: I I don't I maybe have one or two friends 1084 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,880 Speaker 1: that isn't honestly right right, And I think too. The 1085 00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,399 Speaker 1: thing about social media is, like we were talking about 1086 00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,279 Speaker 1: vulnerability earlier, is that, yes, I think it's good that 1087 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: people are now opening up these conversations, but I think 1088 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,239 Speaker 1: what you also see on social media is sort of 1089 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: a curated version of courability. So people will say, you know, 1090 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,680 Speaker 1: like I'm sharing this with all of you, guys, I've 1091 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,920 Speaker 1: never told anyone before, I'm sharing it with all of 1092 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:16,080 Speaker 1: you that I don't actually know. That's not true vulnerability 1093 00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,719 Speaker 1: to meet true vulnerability sitting face to face a few 1094 00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,839 Speaker 1: feet away from someone and who means something to you, 1095 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: where the stakes are really high, and saying this is 1096 00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,000 Speaker 1: the truth of who I am and I'm going to 1097 00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,400 Speaker 1: share it with you. That is true vulnerability. And I 1098 00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,000 Speaker 1: think we need to do more of that. When you 1099 00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,120 Speaker 1: asked about parting words, I think maybe you should talk 1100 00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 1: to someone. The name of my book isn't just well, 1101 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,359 Speaker 1: maybe you should go see a therapist. It's maybe we 1102 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,719 Speaker 1: need to talk more to one another, but in a 1103 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,840 Speaker 1: real way, in a real way that will feel connecting. 1104 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,120 Speaker 1: Great advice. Thank you so much. Sorry, this was fantastic, 1105 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,080 Speaker 1: I mean really such a pleasure. Thank you. Oh, thanks 1106 00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 1: so much for the conversation. Now I feel like we 1107 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 1: sack see there's she goes. We sucked to see. I 1108 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,799 Speaker 1: was that that was the lesson. I failed miserably. I'm 1109 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,640 Speaker 1: just speaking. I actually I think you think that for 1110 00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 1: being non professionals, I think we're pretty good. No, I 1111 00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,919 Speaker 1: think that I think that I give myself a free 1112 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:23,640 Speaker 1: pass every day. I'm pretty happy with my great thanks, Laurie. Yeah, 1113 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,920 Speaker 1: I like the way you interpret my message that in 1114 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,680 Speaker 1: a way that suits you. It's my narrative I'm learning 1115 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,360 Speaker 1: it's my narrative. He lives in a really nice place. 1116 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: Thanks again, this was so much. Thanks for being on 1117 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,080 Speaker 1: with us. This was a real treat. Thank you and 1118 00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:43,920 Speaker 1: congrats on everything. And by her book, by her book, 1119 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:46,080 Speaker 1: maybe you should talk to someone soon to be a 1120 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:50,320 Speaker 1: television series. Very excited, Thank you so much, Thanks so much, 1121 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:58,960 Speaker 1: Bye bye. So that conversation with Lorie Gottlieb was truly remarkable, 1122 00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,680 Speaker 1: and I really noticed the difference between professionals and number Well. Yeah, 1123 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,000 Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to say. So a couple of observations. 1124 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,400 Speaker 1: First of all, I think my voice inside of me 1125 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:11,280 Speaker 1: is telling me that I'm a failure because we don't 1126 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,080 Speaker 1: know anything about relationship advice, but yet we have a podcast. 1127 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,960 Speaker 1: I don't agree with that. I actually think we're pretty 1128 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,480 Speaker 1: spot on. Not in the technical sense, but I think 1129 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,520 Speaker 1: i'd listen. I think with relationships, my takeaway was there's 1130 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 1: actually no right and wrong other than I think the 1131 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,640 Speaker 1: overriding theme is that you have to be open to 1132 00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,920 Speaker 1: other people's approaches and perspectives on things. It's almost like 1133 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,000 Speaker 1: common sense, you know, That's what she was saying. I 1134 00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: use my humanity, so you use your common sense. But 1135 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,000 Speaker 1: I do think I should read her book, and I 1136 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: do think I might sign up for an online psychology 1137 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:48,240 Speaker 1: course because I really need to help our listeners learn 1138 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:53,919 Speaker 1: something other than me rambling on about things. Okay, but 1139 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,680 Speaker 1: I thought she was incredible. She's so accomplished, and I 1140 00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,640 Speaker 1: actually I literally could have talked to her like I 1141 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:05,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to leave. No, don't go. But I'm completely 1142 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,120 Speaker 1: obsessed with psychology of people, and I think again, I 1143 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,120 Speaker 1: think that's why it was what I studied in school. 1144 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,600 Speaker 1: But I think ultimately, the amount of patience you have 1145 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: to have to constantly listen to other people's issues and 1146 00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,919 Speaker 1: try and fix them is a really daunting task. And 1147 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I was so impressed with her. 1148 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,880 Speaker 1: She was really really amazing. So you think it would 1149 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 1: be a good or bad idea if we did a 1150 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:35,040 Speaker 1: live therapy session with her or someone like her for us, 1151 00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:36,680 Speaker 1: I think that would be the worst thing we could 1152 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,439 Speaker 1: ever do. I think that would be a lot of fun. 1153 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,960 Speaker 1: I like, no the answers. No, I think it would 1154 00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:47,600 Speaker 1: be a terrible idea. Okay, Anyway, if you liked what 1155 00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: you've heard so far, please make sure you subscribed on 1156 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and please give us a good rating and 1157 00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 1: an amazing review. Please please, please please we deserve it. 1158 00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,800 Speaker 1: We deserve it, I mean we think we do totally. 1159 01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Please keep listening. Please find us on our Instagram at 1160 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,960 Speaker 1: atworks dot for dot us, call and share your story 1161 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: or ask us a question. If you want to share 1162 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,320 Speaker 1: your own story or ask us a question, leave us 1163 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: a message at our new Works for US hotline six 1164 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: five seven five four nine two two five one, and 1165 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,880 Speaker 1: we might just share your story or answer your question 1166 01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:28,800 Speaker 1: on the show. Before we go, we need to share 1167 01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,160 Speaker 1: our highlights and lowlights from our week because in relationships, 1168 01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the bad comes with the goods. So this is our 1169 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,680 Speaker 1: time to mention a little bit of both of those things. 1170 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,920 Speaker 1: Bay you go, what's your highlight or your lowlight? Give 1171 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,600 Speaker 1: me one? Well, I guess I'll start with the highlight. 1172 01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: Highlight for me was going to the launch party of 1173 01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 1: You and Grace this weekend. I don't know. I felt 1174 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,240 Speaker 1: really good because, as you know, it's one of our investments, 1175 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,280 Speaker 1: and well, an incredible product, an incredible product, and just 1176 01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: watch it grow and seeing everyone there for them and 1177 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,280 Speaker 1: just seeing it get bigger and bigger. It's just giving 1178 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,720 Speaker 1: me a lot of gratifications. So it made me feel 1179 01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,919 Speaker 1: good to be a small, very small part of that. 1180 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: So that was cool. It was like an entreprene oial high. Yeah, 1181 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,440 Speaker 1: it was just nice and just you know there it 1182 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,880 Speaker 1: was meaningful. You know everything they're doing. I mean, this 1183 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,080 Speaker 1: is their company and you know they're they're working their 1184 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,440 Speaker 1: asses off to make it something. So I thought it 1185 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:26,800 Speaker 1: was cool. Okay, low light, low light. Um, I'm going 1186 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,760 Speaker 1: to get back to you in the low light. Okay, 1187 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: so I had quite a low light. We as a 1188 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:34,600 Speaker 1: family had a low light. Yeah, can I share your 1189 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,280 Speaker 1: a little light? No, well, we did it as a family. Okay, 1190 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,880 Speaker 1: actually I did it really yes, why don't we go 1191 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: over the story? Okay, anyway, So I was taking Goldie 1192 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:48,600 Speaker 1: out to go to the bathroom, even though she's not 1193 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,320 Speaker 1: my dog and I'm not supposed to take her off 1194 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,320 Speaker 1: for bathroom, but you know, I chip in. So I 1195 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:57,040 Speaker 1: took Goldie out for cold icy and then Goldie happened 1196 01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,560 Speaker 1: to see meaning gold dog father. Goldie saw bee on 1197 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,200 Speaker 1: the floor, and being that she's a puppy and clearly 1198 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,560 Speaker 1: not as well, I guess she's never encountered a bee 1199 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,040 Speaker 1: before and doesn't know what bees do. But she decided 1200 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: it would be a good idea to put that bee 1201 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: in her mouth and try and eat the bee. Well, 1202 01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,520 Speaker 1: the bee had other ideas for her and stung her 1203 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,960 Speaker 1: in the mouth. Kaias came running into my room with 1204 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,840 Speaker 1: Goldie in hand told me what happened, and I looked 1205 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,320 Speaker 1: at her and saw immediately that she was definitely not right. 1206 01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,360 Speaker 1: She looked like she was going to pass out, and 1207 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,880 Speaker 1: Schuyler started crying because he thought she was going to die, which, 1208 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,240 Speaker 1: in all fairness, she could have easily because she had 1209 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,840 Speaker 1: an allergic reaction to the beasting, just like her mother 1210 01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 1: meaning me, and her grandmother meaning my mother, which is 1211 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,600 Speaker 1: pretty surreal that genetically it's not really possible. But somehow 1212 01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 1: we got a puppy that's also allergic to bees, and 1213 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: thankfully we have an incredible vet named Hollie in the 1214 01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 1: Pacific Palisades. I strongly recommend her and Roger and very 1215 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 1: brave of Caius, who remained very calm and thought it 1216 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,360 Speaker 1: was the best way he could handle himself. He said, 1217 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,120 Speaker 1: I think if I remain calm, Goldie will be okay, 1218 01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,840 Speaker 1: and took her with Daddy to the vet. I stayed 1219 01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: with Skyler and kipped him calm, and they went and 1220 01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,840 Speaker 1: she got all kinds of benadryl and ivy and all 1221 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,800 Speaker 1: of these different things that ultimately saved her. And they 1222 01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,640 Speaker 1: brought her home and she actually not only survived, but 1223 01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:29,000 Speaker 1: she thrived, and by the next morning she is a healthy, 1224 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: happy puppy. But now we have to actually have a 1225 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:37,720 Speaker 1: puppy eppy pen for her, which is another responsibility as 1226 01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,160 Speaker 1: a puppy bart that Roger is so excited to have, 1227 01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,200 Speaker 1: but he's going to take it with grace because we 1228 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,720 Speaker 1: love her and she provides so much snuggly love for 1229 01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:49,080 Speaker 1: our family. So that was my lowlight, our lowlight as 1230 01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:54,600 Speaker 1: a family. My highlight would be that my wonderful, caring, 1231 01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:01,680 Speaker 1: incredible husband of twenty four years soon to be thirty 1232 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:08,320 Speaker 1: years together came home from Vegas after four days with 1233 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:13,560 Speaker 1: no voice, completely exhausted, totally hungover, but with beautiful flowers. 1234 01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,360 Speaker 1: So that was my highlight. I got beautiful flowers that 1235 01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,560 Speaker 1: are thriving in my house that he brought home from Vegas, 1236 01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,600 Speaker 1: And that was my highlight of the week, because you 1237 01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:27,160 Speaker 1: should always bring me flowers, you know. On that theme, 1238 01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,560 Speaker 1: I've suddenly remembered my low light. Oh God, while I 1239 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 1: was in Vegas. Okay, anyway, thanks for watching. Works for Us, 1240 01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. This podcast is sponsored by Better Help. 1241 01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 1: So I know we've already talked about the importance of 1242 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,120 Speaker 1: mental health in this episode, but I honestly cannot say 1243 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,200 Speaker 1: it enough. There's no need to ever feel ashamed if 1244 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,640 Speaker 1: you want to try therapy, and if you're at all 1245 01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:54,360 Speaker 1: curious whether or not it'll make a difference for you, 1246 01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,200 Speaker 1: the support you need is absolutely within reach because of 1247 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,920 Speaker 1: better Help. Better Help it is so incredibly convenient and 1248 01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,080 Speaker 1: so easy to start. You can schedule weekly video or 1249 01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,120 Speaker 1: phone session so you don't have to try to fit 1250 01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,680 Speaker 1: an in person therapy session into your weekly routine. I 1251 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: find with so many people that's actually the hesitation, as 1252 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,720 Speaker 1: they don't want to deal with the commute too and 1253 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,680 Speaker 1: from a therapist office, and of course how expensive it is. 1254 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,720 Speaker 1: And if you're worried that you might not connect immediately 1255 01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,000 Speaker 1: with your therapist, know that better Help is committed to 1256 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:29,880 Speaker 1: facilitating great therapeutic matches. They make it easy and free 1257 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,320 Speaker 1: to change counselors if needed, so that you can find 1258 01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,760 Speaker 1: the fit that's right for you. This podcast is sponsored 1259 01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,280 Speaker 1: by Better Help and Works for Us. Listeners get ten 1260 01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,000 Speaker 1: percent off their first month at better help dot com 1261 01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: slash works, So don't wait. Visit better help dot com 1262 01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,560 Speaker 1: slash works and join the over one million people who 1263 01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,880 Speaker 1: have taken charge of their mental health with the help 1264 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: of an experienced professional