1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,159 Speaker 1: Welcome to The piked And Massacre Returned to Pike County, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. You've got all 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: these scenarios in your head. I think this may have happened, 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: or maybe they did this. Every family of a murder 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: victim does that. You lay in bed and you think, 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: what happened? Why did they do this? Who did this? 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: There's someone out there roaming around that killed two people 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: that you could be standing beside in the grocery store, 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: and that's scary. This is the piked In Massacre Returned 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: to Pike County, Season two, Episode ten, Hopper Road. I'm 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: Lydecker and Jeff Shane. Over the course of producing this series, 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: we've spoken to several members of the road and family. 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: Because of a gag order and impending trials for the 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Wagner family, they have been unable to go on record, 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: but earlier this year, one member of the family told 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: us that her friend, a piked And resident named Angie Montgomery, 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: wanted to share a story about her own family and 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: a loss they had suffered some years back. Coincidentally, that 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: same week, a listener wrote in asking about that exact case. 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: So for this bonus episode, as we gear up to 22 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: the season finale next week, we decided to look into it. Angie, 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: perhaps more than most people, can empathize with what the 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: Rodents are going through. When we spoke to Angie, she 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: had just heard about Jake Wagner's plea deal in the 26 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: Roden murder case. This news hit Angie especially hard. She 27 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: told us that she immediately reached out to her Roden 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: family friend. I remember texting her. I'm just telling her 29 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: I was sorry. I had to hurt so bad knowing 30 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: that you sat down to eat Christmas dinner with these people, 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: you went to church with these people. So I can't 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: imagine finding that out. Angie reflected back on the day 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: the bodies of eight members of the Roden family were found. 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: I think we lost our innocence that day. We lost 35 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: our wholesomeness, our trust, we lost everything. It was like 36 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: you weren't in a daze, this isn't happening, and you're like, 37 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: where am I living? What's going on here? It's crazy. 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: Angie's bewilderment is, no doubt informed by her own tragic 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: loss ten years before the Rodent family was gunned down. 40 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: Her cousin Curtis Francis and his fiance Jennifer Burgett, were 41 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: also murdered in Pike County, Andie spoke with producer Chris 42 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: Graves about it. I know this is probably hard, but 43 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: can you describe for me what happened to Curtis and Jennifer. 44 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: On December ninth, two thousand and six, Curtis was at 45 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: his friend's house visiting. He had been drinking that day 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: and having a little bit of fun, and Jenny had 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: came down and told him that he needed to get home, 48 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: and he laughed about ten thirty that night and went home, 49 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: and his mother talked to him before he went to bed. 50 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: It was about midnight, I think, and Jenny had talked 51 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: to a friend I think about eleven thirty, so they 52 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: were going to bed. And the next day a nine 53 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: one one call came in that Jenny's mother had found 54 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: Curtis and Jenny. They had been shot in their bed. 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: It was horrible. Curtis and Jenny were good people, you know. 56 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: It was heartbreaking. It was just a shock. It's unsolved, correct, yes, 57 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: fourteen years unsolved. It's a roller coaster. You go up 58 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: and down. Every day you go up and down. You 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: know today is going to be the day something's going 60 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: to happen and nothing. Just before their murders, thirty four 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: year old Curtis Francis and thirty year old Jennifer Burgett 62 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: were recently engaged couple living in Piked in Ohio. Your cousin, Curtis, 63 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: can you tell me a little bit about him and 64 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: what he was like. Curtis was a good guy. He 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: had a good heart, would help anybody. He was a 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: hard worker, lovedy family. He was very loyal, and he 67 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: was a very good person. He was a little bit 68 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: older than me, and we would see each other, you know, 69 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: when we were younger, but we really hung out were 70 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: when we got older, like teenagers and in early twenties. 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: During that time, we were pretty close. He was like 72 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: more like a big brother to me. What about Jennifer, 73 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: his fiancee. I'd like to call her a caretaker. She 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: liked to take care of everybody. She loved animals, she 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: liked to fish. She was a good soul. She had 76 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: a good heart. And what were they like together? They 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: were a cute couple. They were they would always joke around. 78 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: Curtis liked to joke a lot and laughing and things. 79 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: And they were just a normal couple, I guess, hard 80 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: working couple. Their murders just before Christmas in two thousand 81 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: and six were a shock to everyone who knew the couple. 82 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: Curtis and Jennifer were shot while they lie asleep in 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: their home on Hopper Road in Piketon. It was later 84 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: determined that the bullets that killed them were fired from 85 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: a lever action rifle. I assume you guys tried to 86 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: work with the police on this, right, How did that work? 87 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: At first? The families being told Jenny and Curtis's family, 88 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, we don't know who did this, we don't 89 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: know what's going on. You know, that's law enforcement. You 90 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: trust them. If they tell you, hey, we're working on this, 91 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: we're going to get them. You know, you got to 92 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: be patient, which everybody understands that you can't solve a 93 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: murder in a day. Sometimes it takes a long time. 94 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: But after fourteen years of being told, going from we're 95 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: working on it to not contacting at all, too well, 96 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: we've went as far as we can go with this case. 97 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: There's not really anything else we can do unless someone 98 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: confesses or you know, something drastic happens that hurts. I 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: think there was one article on it when it happened 100 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: a few days after it happened in the local paper, 101 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: and a few other media outlets picked it up and 102 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: did a couple of articles, but after that there was nothing. 103 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: You feel like you're never going to get justice, and 104 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: then you worry about, hey, you know there's someone on 105 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: the loose that could do this to other families, and 106 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: then that turns into kind of aggravation. Why is there 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: anything being done? Why isn't this case important? Why is 108 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: it my family important? But authorities had no answers. Eventually, 109 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: the case that became known as the Hopper Road double 110 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: murder when cold. Then in twenty twelve, there was suddenly 111 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: some movement. As part of his Ohio Unsolved Homicide's initiative, 112 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: then Attorney General Mike Dwine revived the case, urging anyone 113 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: with information to come forward. He caught wind and he 114 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: went on Channel ten news station out of Columbus and 115 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: featured the Hopper Road murders, talked about it. They had 116 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: a deputy from the Sheriff's department and talk about it 117 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: asking for tips. You know, anybody if they have any information. 118 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: We believe they are. There's a person or people out 119 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: there who have information who would enable us to solve 120 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: the case. We had gotten a new sheriff and he 121 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: wanted to reopen the case and try to get some 122 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: help with it. How did that make you feel that 123 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: you feel like someone was actually paying attention to you? Guys? Yeah, 124 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: we were excited. You know, this is that somebody's going 125 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: to do something. You know, we've got the Attorney General 126 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: in this Something's going to happen. They followed a few 127 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: leads and a few tips, but nothing came about. In 128 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, the investigation was handed back over to the 129 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: Pike County Sheriff's office. Didn't just slin code again. Two 130 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: years later, in twenty sixteen, Jodi Barrd, then an investigative 131 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: reporter at Fox nineteen in Cincinnati, received an email from 132 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: a woman named Paula Horne. It's saying, you know something 133 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: to the effect of my son was wrongfully convicted of murder. 134 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: And then she says, I've got information in another cold case. 135 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: So of course that got my attention. I go and 136 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: meet with this woman and what ended up happening was 137 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: Paula Horne's son, Eric was convicted of a separate murder 138 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: in Pike County a few years before Curtain Jenny were murdered. 139 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: He was convicted of murdering Paul Schope, shot him, killed him. 140 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: He was convicted of that, but Paula Horne was on 141 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: a mission to have her son, Eric Horne, set free 142 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: from prison. Paula Horne was convinced her son did not 143 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: do the murder, so she pulls this huge box out 144 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: of a closet and it stacked full of papers and files. 145 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: Paula Horne had collected a massive amount of documentation tied 146 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: to her son's murder conviction, but it was documents within 147 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: this archive pertaining to a different case that caught Jodie's eye, 148 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: the murders of Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgett on Hopper Road. 149 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: As it turns out, Eric Horne knew Curtis Francis and 150 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: was with him hours before he was murdered. In this 151 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: box of documents that Paula Horne had were email communications 152 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: between the prosecution and Eric Horn's own attorney in their 153 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: plotting how Eric Horne would plead guilty in one case 154 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: and the state would use him as a witness in 155 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: the double murder on Hopper Road. Okay, this was essentially 156 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: Eric Horne saying, I will train information about this double 157 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: murder for a plea deal in this Paul Shop murder. 158 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: So Eric Horne had written out a statement it's called 159 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: a proffer, where he's getting investigator's information in one case 160 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: to essentially help him in another. Eric Horn gave this 161 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: proffer two investigators somewhere around September of two thousand and night. 162 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: So over the next month or so, Eric from prison 163 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: writes his mother a letter and he tells her about 164 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: what happened the night that Kurt Francis and Jennifer Burgett 165 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,479 Speaker 1: were murdered. According to his letter, Eric Horne told authorities 166 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: that he was at a house on Wynd Road and 167 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: piked in on December ninth, two thousand and six. That night, 168 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: a group including Curtis Francis, had gathered at the home 169 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: for a party. Horn claimed that he left the wind 170 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: Road home at around ten thirty pm and nevisa Curtis 171 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: Francis again. But Horne said that just weeks later he 172 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: ran into a man who was at the party. The 173 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: man told Horn that he was forced to go to 174 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Curtis and Jennifer's house that night by his housemate, who 175 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: shot the couple over a money dispute. Eric Horne never 176 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:09,359 Speaker 1: admits to having direct involvement with the actual murders themselves, 177 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: but Eric Horne wrote in that letter that there was 178 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: a lever action rifle that hung on the wall of 179 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: the Howel's home on Wynn Road, and that after these 180 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: murders happened, that gun was no longer on the wall. 181 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 182 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: back in a moment. The files collected by Paula Horn 183 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: contained not only Eric Horne's statements, but accounts from other 184 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: witnesses about the night of Curtis Francis and Jennifer Burgett's murders. 185 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: What I was reading on them was unbelievable. There were 186 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: witness statements out of an investigative file from the Pike 187 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office contained in this box of reds. So 188 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: this box of records contained every document that somebody like 189 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: me could only dream of having. When you start investigating 190 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: a murder that's ten years old at that point in time, 191 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: and what she had in her possession were documents that 192 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: ultimately provided a whole lot of answers for you know, 193 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,560 Speaker 1: kurta and Jenny's family. We went over every shred of 194 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: paper in this case file. I made sure I understood 195 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: who every person was, who these players are, how they 196 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: were connected. My next job was then to go talk 197 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: to the victims' families. So I went to Judy Conley, 198 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: who was Kurt Francis's mother. Jodi Barr revealed some of 199 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: the other statements taken by police and their investigation into 200 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: Kurt and Jennifer's murder to the family. These accounts, however, 201 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: seemed to contradict what Eric Horn initially told authorities. Here 202 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: again is Angie Montgomery. One statement is from a gentleman 203 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: whose house Curtis was at the night that he got murdered. 204 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: He stated that his brother and his friend, Eric Horne, 205 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: had left after Curtis had left, about ten thirty or eleven, 206 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: and took a rifle off the wall and went and 207 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: killed Curtis and Jenny, and that they came back with 208 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: bloody clothes, and they got in the shower, took a shower, 209 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: got the blood off of them. Took their clothes out 210 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: in the yard and put them in a black trash 211 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: bag and burnt them all at the command of his 212 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: mother because apparently Curtis owed the mother's fiance three hundred dollars, 213 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: is what I was told. And then there's another statement, 214 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: and they told the same story that they took a 215 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: rifle off the wall, came back bloody, took a shower, 216 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: burnt the clothes. Eric Horn denies any and all involvement 217 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: in Curtis and Jennifer's murders. Jodi barr knew that the 218 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: information he had could help track down Curtis and Jennifer's killers, 219 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: but there was one problem. Jody couldn't get any more 220 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: information from investigators. We can't pull the records in this case. 221 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: They're all under still this is still considered although it's cold. 222 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: It's a pending open investigation, regardless of whether investigators are 223 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: actively working it or not. These are not records you 224 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: can get a hold of under the Open Records Act. 225 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: So what do you have at that point? The only 226 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: thing you have are the witnesses and family members who 227 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: may have been in contact or who may have remembered 228 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: something from back when this began. But I knew there 229 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: was something here. I just had to get somebody from 230 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: the family to work with us, to help us. And 231 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, this guy with his huge 232 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: winner jacket walks in from the backyard and he's greasy, 233 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: he's been working on a car. And it's Paul Francis. 234 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: His brother is Kurt Francis. And Judy introduces us and 235 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: tell him why why I am there, and his whole 236 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: demeanor changed. He looked angry, and I'm thinking, Okay, you 237 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: know this is this is gonna be one of those 238 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: where I get, you know, hauled out of the house 239 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: by my collar and my belt loops. And all Paul 240 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: tells me is, let's get in your car. I've got 241 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: something to show you. So Paul and I get in 242 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: the car and we drive from his home over to 243 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: Win Road and he walks me out to the edge 244 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: of the property and he says, this is a well, 245 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: and then he starts telling me the story about the 246 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: story that this well told that he just so happened 247 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: to find. Paul told Jody that in July of twenty sixteen, 248 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: he was doing a plumbing job at the same house 249 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: on Win Road that Curtis was last seen at the 250 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: night of his murder in two thousand and six. By 251 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: this point, the previous owners had moved out. He's doing 252 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: plumbing work, so he sees a waterline running outside with 253 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: an electrical wire running out alongside the pipes. So he's 254 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: trying to pull this water line up, and it gets 255 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: to a point where he can't pull it up out 256 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: of the ground any longer. So then he just starts 257 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: pulling this electrical wire and it, you know, it snakes 258 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: across the yard and it goes down a hill under 259 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: a pile of jump in the yard, as he described it, 260 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: and he digs down and he finds this well shaft. 261 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: Paul told me, in the back of his mind, the 262 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: suspicion was that this could hold some sort of answer 263 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: to his brothers and his sister in law's murder. He 264 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: told me he had a gut feeling about it. So 265 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Paul Francis called the Pike County Sheriff's Office in to investigate. 266 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: By twenty sixteen, the department was headed up by Charlie Reader, who, 267 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: as we know, would later be jailed on charge was 268 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: related to corruption and office. At the moment when in 269 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. What were you guys his feelings about Charlie Reader? 270 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: Were you hopeful? Yeah, you're hopeful. With every new sheriff, 271 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: he also had his hands full because the Rodent massacre 272 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: had just happened. We knew that sources were probably stretched, 273 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: but we also thought the BCI, the FBI, they're already 274 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: down here in our county. That gave us a little 275 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: bit of hope of maybe, hey, they'll the sheriff will 276 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: say something and they'll pick up on this too. We 277 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: were very hopeful that he would do something and something 278 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: would would happen. So the sheriff, Charlie Reader, paid a 279 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: local plumbing company to run a plumber's camera down the well. 280 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: They were able to capture images of a handgun and 281 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: then this lever action rifle. I mean that is very 282 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: similar to the gun that Eric Horne described in his 283 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight letter that he sent his mom 284 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: from principal. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll 285 00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: be back in a moment. Authorities also found burnt clothing, 286 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: a detail relayed and Ericorn's statement this could have been 287 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: the break in the case. The only physical evidence that 288 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: we know of was down a well. Shaft, and the 289 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office was just feet away from being able to 290 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: get their hands on it, bag it, process it, and 291 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: potentially prosecute somebody in the Hopper Road double murder. So 292 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: then they were faced with the task of how do 293 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: we get these guns out of this well. It's an 294 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: eight inch pipe, you know, that goes down into a well. 295 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: So they tried with a magnet, I was told, and 296 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: when that failed, they called in a firetruck. The idea 297 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: was to use the fire hose to fill the well 298 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: with water, which wouldn't turn lift the guns back up 299 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: to the surface for authorities to retrieve. But things did 300 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: not go as expected. They place the fire hose in 301 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: the pipe and turned the water on. It blew the 302 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: bottom of the well out and knocked like an eighty 303 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: foot hole in the well, took the guns with it. 304 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: Sheers off is ultimately ends up getting a welder out there. 305 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: The welder wells of plate over top of this well, 306 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: and that's where it sat since July of twenty sixteen. 307 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: And you know, here we are years later. The likelihood 308 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: that it's ever recovered, it's not looking very good right now. 309 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: How did that feel for you guys? Horrible. Um, I'm 310 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: gonna get emotional and felt horrible anger. You know this 311 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: is that was probably the biggest break we'll ever get 312 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: in that case. In this case. Ever, despite potential evidence 313 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: being lost, Jodi Barr pressed on with his investigation. In 314 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, he went forward with a series of reports 315 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: on the Hopper Road double murder case. The Pike County 316 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: sheriff at the time, Charlie Reader, when I was looking 317 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: into this case, told me that he developed a cold 318 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: case unit within a sheriff's office and he had some 319 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: season law enforcement officials, investigators, criminal profilers on this team, 320 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: and they were looking into the Hopper Road cold case. 321 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: So I got an interview with those four men, and 322 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to know more about the well. I wanted 323 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: to tune them about this evidence in the bottom of 324 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: this well. I wanted to know I named all the 325 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: names that were contained in these witness statements. You know. 326 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: I had all four members of this cold case unit 327 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: sitting in front of me in an interview inside the 328 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: Sheriff's office, and all I got from this cold case 329 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: unit was no comment. Every question was a no comment. 330 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: Have you been able to develop any type of motive 331 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: profile of the suss no comment, so you know we 332 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: were at the enter the road. Jody's reporting on Curtis 333 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: and Jennifer's murder also received some pushback from the Pike 334 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: County community, mainly due to his interactions with Sheriff Charlie Reader. 335 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: At the time, the people in Pike County that's seen 336 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 1: Jody's airing of the Hopper Room murders had a different 337 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: perspective on mister Barr because of the investigation he did 338 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: at the road and warehouse with mister Reader. Mister Reader 339 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: had got on Facebook and had a huge rant aimed 340 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: at mister Barr, and I like to say they drink 341 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: mister Reader's kool aid. People were saying, you know, this 342 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: guy's just down here to make the Pike County Sheriff's 343 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: office and Charlie Reader look horrible. And so I had 344 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people messaging me saying, I can't believe 345 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: that your family would let that guy do a report 346 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: on this case. And you know, he's just a troublemaker. 347 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: He isn't even from around here. And I would always 348 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: bite back and say, at least he cares. You know, 349 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: he's the only one that cares Jody, and I meanness 350 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: with all my heart, and I hope I can get 351 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: it out without crimes. He really does care about my family. 352 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: He is in constant contact with me. He has helped me, 353 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: he has listened to me cry. He's just as aggravated 354 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: as we are. He's a very caring person and he 355 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: and he's a godsend. Jodi Barr's reporting helped raise awareness 356 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: about Curtis and Jennifer's murders, but police were seemingly unable 357 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: to make any progress. Still today, no one's been arrested. Curtain. 358 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: Jenny's family have no more answers today than they had 359 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: when we rolled out of Pike County for the last 360 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: time and aired the final broad cast into this case. 361 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: From your extensive investigation, it seems as though investigators know 362 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: what might have happened to Curtis and Jennifer and who 363 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: may have done it. Why do you think there has 364 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: been an arrest, That's my question. I don't know why 365 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: there hasn't been an arrest. I don't know the investigators 366 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: just didn't have enough. I don't know what else was 367 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: needed to finish his investigation. You've got people in these 368 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: statements telling stories that you know, spell out what happened. 369 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: When you know the people who were identified in these 370 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: statements as having gone to this murder scene committed these 371 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: crimes and came back home. So I don't know why 372 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: or what or where investigators are at this point in time. 373 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: This is we're fifteen years down the road and no arrest. 374 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: So as far as the family's concerned, and I talked 375 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: to them regularly still today, I mean, they just they 376 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: feel like this was a miscarriage of not even justice. 377 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: They didn't get that far. It's just an incomplete investigation. 378 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: You just hope one day you'll be able to finish 379 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: the story because at this point, you know, two people 380 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: are dead and it appears that whoever did this is 381 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, gotten away with murder. But that won't be 382 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: the case if Ai Montgomery has anything to do with it. 383 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: You're still on this mission to get answers, to get justice, 384 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: and also to make sure that it doesn't happen to 385 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: another family. Right. I got my kid up where they 386 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: were a little bit older, I had a little bit 387 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: of time on my hands, so I started going full 388 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: force with getting the Hopper Road cased out into the 389 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: public speaking. I went to the prosecutor, spoke with him 390 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: a few times. I went to the sheriff's we had 391 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: an interim sheriff when mister Reader got suspended. We're told 392 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: just hang on, you know, helps coming, and it never does. 393 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: And I noticed that it's always when I get really 394 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: rowdy squeaky. Will gets the most grief. When I start squeaking, 395 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: I'll get a phone call, hey, you know, just hang on. 396 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to figure something out, and nothing happens, and 397 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: we're tired of it. That's what I get the most 398 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: emotional about is just feeling like nobody cares. And I 399 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: can't imagine what curtain Jenny's mom their mothers feel like. 400 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: That's another thing that puts the fire under my ass. 401 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: It's never it's not going to bring them back. You'll 402 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: always have a hole in your heart from that. But 403 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: I would love to see someone get arrested for Curtis 404 00:25:47,640 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: and Jennifer's murder and get prosecuted and that we get justice. 405 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow 406 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Katie Underscores Studios. Next week, we'll 407 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: be bringing you the season finale, where a full panel 408 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: of contributors will answer listener questions, so please write us 409 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: with anything you want to know. This week is your 410 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: last chance to get the questions in. The Piked and 411 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: Massacre Returned to Pike County is executive produced by Stephanie 412 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by 413 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, 414 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: and Chris Graves. The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike 415 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: County is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For 416 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 417 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.