WEBVTT - #501 Jason Flom with Delia D'Ambra on Jeff Pelley 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.840 April twenty ninth, nineteen eighty nine, was prom night in 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.320 the small town of lake Ville, Indiana, and although high 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.480 school senior Jeff Pelly had been grounded, two of his 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.360 sisters and his girlfriend believed that his father's resolved had softened, 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.280 allowing Jeff to attend. But on the morning after the prom, 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.800 his father, stepmother, and two stepsisters were found fatally shot 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.880 in their own home. Then the state ignored the autopsy 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.720 findings his girlfriend, his sisters, and several other witnesses, along 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:38.760 with a compelling alternate suspect theory to argue that Jeff 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.279 had killed them simply to gain access to this teenage 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:53.280 right of passage. This is wrongful conviction. You're listening to 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.080 Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.320 LoVa for Good podcasts one week early and ed free 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.480 by subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.319 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where we have the story 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.840 of a teenager named Jeff Pelly who was accused of 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.840 killing his father, his stepmother, and two stepsisters in Lakeville, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:24.440 Indiana in nineteen eighty nine. Unfortunately, Jeff was not available 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.679 to record, but this story needs to be told. So 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:30.480 to help us do that, we have one of my 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:36.920 absolute favorite investigative journalists, Delia Diambra, who dedicated an entire 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.360 season of her hit podcast Counterclock to this case. It's 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.560 going to be linked in the episode description. So Delia, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:45.479 thanks so much for joining us. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.360 Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.400 And with her we have Jeff's post conviction attorney, the 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.320 president of the Indiana Innisis Project, Fran Watson. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.840 Fran welcome, Well, thank you for Carrie. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:00.720 Yeah, I can't shake this one. So this story acquires 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.760 quite a bit of background. So let's go back and 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.600 start where it all started. In Cape Coral, Florida. 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.280 In nineteen seventy Bob Pelly met his first wife, Ava 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.480 Joy Armstrong and they got married and then their first child, 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.840 Robert Jeffrey Pelly. He's born in nineteen seventy one, so 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.679 Carrie is his dad's name, but goes by Jeff and 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.040 then they have their daughter, Jackie. They have a large 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.960 community at the Nazarene Church. Bob was working for a 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.600 bank called Landmark Bank as a data analyst. They're living 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.200 happily in Cape Coral, Florida, which at that time was 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.880 sort of underdeveloped as compared to the city that it 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.600 is now, But back then it was sort of wild 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.440 West in terms of real estate development, and I think 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.359 a lot of people from other states and even other 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.680 countries saw that as an opportune time to capitalize on 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:52.960 Florida's growth. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.520 It's also rumored that there were organized criminal interests in 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.799 the area, either coming in from Miami or even as 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.560 far away as Detroit, and Landmark Bank was processing a 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.679 lot of the land deals being made as Cape Coral developed. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.880 Two of the players in the market were a developer 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.280 from Michigan named Derek Dawson, as well as another Nazarene 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.520 parishioner named Phil Holly. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.639 The Holly family attended the Nazarene church in Fort Myers 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.560 that the Pelly family also attended. The families knew one 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.040 another and spent time together. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.320 Mister Holly called mister Pelly his best friend. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:34.080 And yes, Phil Holly had several businesses, construction businesses, they 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.880 debt collection business some of which were later alleged to 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:42.280 be fraudulent businesses, and Phil had banking interests at Landmark Bank. Also, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.400 Bob had done it work for Phil Holly. 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.640 There isn't any doubt that mister Pelly knew a lot 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.800 about mister Holly's business, and I don't think there's any 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.800 doubt that the Hollys were up to criminal activity. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.880 Fast forward to nineteen eighty five, Joy Pelly had been 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.440 diagnosed with cancer and after fighting bravely, she tragically lost 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.120 her battle. And later on that year, Bob met a 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.600 widow named Dawn who had three daughters of her own, Jesse, Jannell, 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.960 and Joe Lene, and they soon married. And to add 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:15.640 to this tumultuous situation, Bob abruptly uprooted this newly blended 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.719 family from a comfortable life in Cape Coral and moved 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.240 to a very different situation in Lakeville, Indiana. In nineteen 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:23.760 eighty six. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:30.080 Bob Pelly was incredibly secretive and abrupt about the family's 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.440 move to Indiana. Jackie her words were, he showed up 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.159 in the middle of the night and said there was 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.400 money missing from the bank, and within either the next 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.000 day or the day after that, the family was gone 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.240 from Cape Coral and moved to Lakeville. 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.159 Later on, the pastor at Nazarene Church confirmed that Bob 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.360 was tormented by fraud that he'd uncovered at landmark, and 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.600 to add another twist, he didn't pick up another banking 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.960 or it job. He actually became a pastor at the 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:04.000 Olive Branch and I Brethren Church on Osborne Road in Lakeville, Indiana, 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.919 and the Pellys live next door in a ranch style 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.880 home owned by the church called the Parsonage. The kids 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.719 had to go to new schools, of course, and make 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:17.200 all new friends, all while still acclimating to new step 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.160 parents and siblings. So you know, they were in family 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.840 therapy and in April nineteen eighty eight, Jeff threatened to 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:24.839 commit suicide. 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.040 In the spring of eighty eight, when Jeff makes this 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.360 declaration that he was going to take his own life, 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.719 Bob gets all the guns out of the home. Thomas Kebb, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.560 who's an individual who claimed to have received firearms from 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.320 Bob Pelly. Bob Pelly came to him and it's like, here, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:41.640 take him out of our house. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.480 Meanwhile, back in Cape Coral, the real estate developer from Michigan, 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.480 Eric Dawson, had gone deep into debt with the Hollys 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.000 and soon received cash infusions from their business on other 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.800 development deals. By late nineteen eighty eight, Dawson's body was 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.040 discovered in a Florida wildlife preserve. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:04.600 Eric Dawson was shot execution style and then sunk into 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.640 a makeshift concrete grave in the middle of a cypress clearing. 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.279 With the Florida conditions the way they are, that concrete 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.800 sort of broke open and allows, unfortunately odors of decomposition 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.679 to escape, and then the wildlife, a lot of wild 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:24.120 hogs and boars and snakes came in and began to scavenge, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.839 and that ultimately allowed his clothing and things to come 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.240 out of that and was discovered. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.560 Eric Dawson had been shot with a twenty two caliber pistol. Curiously, 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.239 Bob Paley had given Thomas keb a twenty two caliber 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.160 pistol which came in and out of his possession around 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.040 the time of Eric Dawson's murder. 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.280 It's back in the home by January of nineteen eighty 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:52.800 nine and then subsequently disappears again before the April twenty ninth, 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.839 nineteen eighty nine massacre in the home. So this twenty 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.760 two pistol, why was it going in and out of 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.360 the home? Where was it? And then when you look 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.920 at the case in late nineteen eighty eight in Florida, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:09.480 with Eric Dawson. He was murdered definitively with a twenty two. 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:12.640 The Halies were suspected of that murder and police found 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.320 Landis that Dawson had signed over to the Hallies the 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:16.760 day before his disappearance. 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.000 If you look at what's happening in Florida the month 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.600 of Pelley family is killed, that's when they serve the 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.880 search warrants, and that's where they find clear evidence that 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:30.200 ultimately convicts the Hallies forging those documents. They're never able 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.920 to charge the Hallies or anyone with the murder of 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.760 the business partner, but they were able to charge and 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.280 convict the Hollies of the fraud tied to taking the asset. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.240 Meanwhile, Bob was in Lakeville and he was very much 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.160 aware of the danger. Just according to a person named 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.880 Tony Beeeler who was hired to take photographs for a 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.360 church directory, Bob made her swear on a Bible and 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.320 explained why he didn't want his picture taken and made public. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.679 He expressed to her there are people from my past 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.440 in Florida that we'll find us and harm us. And 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.720 he was very resistant to their identities being out there. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.680 And then they're all massacred like what. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.880 Curiously, the Pellies were in touch with the Hawlies, who 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.480 knew that they'd moved to Lakeville, but Bob was certainly 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.560 afraid of someone. Meanwhile, in Lakeville, the police were investigating 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.440 a string of petty thefts, and Bob discovered that his son, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.800 Jeff and his friends the Herzogs, were involved, So he 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.200 took away Jeff's Mustang and forbade him from attending the 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.079 prom or any after prime activities, including a day trip 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.439 the next day to Six Flags Raided America. 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.760 That's definitely part of the story is that mister Pelly 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.280 had told many people that Jeff was grounded from the prom, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.200 and the fact we always cite in responses, Well, if 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.920 Jeff wasn't going to the prom, then how did Jackie 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.160 know to tell the police he'd be at Great America 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.200 this pre date cell phone. She'd not been home since 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:55.880 Friday nine. So if Jeff wasn't going to the prom, 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.920 how does Jackie think he's at Great America? 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.040 According to those closest to the situation, Jeff's sisters Jackie 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:07.640 and Jesse, and Jeff's girlfriend Darla, it appears that Bob 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.480 had softened his result as early as Friday, which was 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.640 the night before the prompt. Additionally, the Pellies had written 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.400 checks the week prior to cover Jeff's tuxedo and other 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.400 prom fees. Yet the state still contended that this punishment, 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.200 along with access to his mustang, was the motivation for 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.800 him to commit a quadruple homicide against his own family. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.120 That happened sometime after five pm on April twenty nine, 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.360 nineteen eighty nine. So let's back up to earlier that 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.400 day so we can establish the timeline. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.720 He worked at McDonald's that Saturday of the prom, starting 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.640 at five am, and then when his father picked him up, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.040 the dad stopped at the gun store. Now, the state's 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.880 theory was the dad stopped at the gun store because 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.439 he was afraid of his son. 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.520 But if you know the context about Florida, this stop 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.680 makes more sense. According to the store, Bob inquired about 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.000 a gun for Dawn, but he didn't purchase anything. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.360 Mister Pelly's kicked his son up at noon brought him home. 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.520 They all had lunch together and watch baseball. People came 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:09.960 over to show their prom dresses. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.959 There was a girl named Kim and her date David. 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.720 A boy named Matt Miller came over at that same time, 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.320 so they're all there between four thirty and five o'clock, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.800 maybe five after five at the most. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.040 So the state's theory is that after this dear friend 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.600 and church people leave, he just goes into a rage 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.000 and kills everyone and then goes to the prom and 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:31.680 acts normal. 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.240 And according to the dear friend and church people, Jeff 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.800 had been wearing blue jeans and potentially a pink pin 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.320 striped shirt. And the promgoers left around five pm to 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:42.559 pick up Matt Miller's date. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.080 Matt Miller forgets his corsage for his date, so he 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.240 goes back home. And as Matt is passing back on 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.480 Osborne Road headed to go meet Kim and David at 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.199 his date's house, he passes the parsonage and sees Jeff's 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.760 Mustang still park there. This is at right around five 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.400 point fifteen. And then there's I think one of Jeff's 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.320 friends that was mushroom hunting in the area. Here's Jeff's car, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.600 the noticeable engine roar down Osborne Road a little after 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.280 five point fifteen. And then we have Dennis Nico Dimes, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.080 who is the clerk at the Mco gas station, who 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.920 has an interaction with Jeff who says it's five p 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.240 seventeen when Jeff is at that gas station. 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.520 From then on, Jeff is accounted for wearing a black 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.840 Hawaiian shirt and blue jeans, followed by his tuxedo. So, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.520 according to the state, Jeff committed this quadruple homicide between 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.120 five and five sixteen pm. But there's the specter of 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.439 this black pickup truck, which wasn't mentioned by the promgoers 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.640 either while they were there as they left, or by 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.040 Matt Miller as he drove by, but rather by a 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:49.920 woman named Lois Stansbury who saw Bob Pelley after the 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.720 prom goers left and potentially after five sixteen PM. 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.880 She's probably part of the reason Jeff wasn't charged in 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.280 eighty nine. She was a local, good standing citizen who 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.120 said she'd been to kmart. She came back up the 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.280 road to visit her father and saw mister Pelley talking 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.320 to someone in a black truck. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.800 Yeah, her purchase at kmart was documented and on her receipt. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.480 I want to say like four thirty to four forty, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.400 and where that kmart was located the Osborne Road. I 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.000 think we drove it and it was like maybe ten 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.959 or twelve minutes, so based on her movements and that receipt, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.160 and like one other pit stop she made on the way, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:31.440 she's got to be seeing him to be generous a 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.679 little after five to five twenty. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.840 And according to the witness, mister Pelly had a shovel 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.880 in his hand, and he looked a bit circumspect, in 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.199 other words, he wasn't his normal waving self. 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.679 And when she came forward to law enforcement a week 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.960 or so after the crime, she provides that receipt to them, 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.760 saying like, Hey, here's how I know when I saw 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.600 Bob from five to five twenty. So if Bob's alive 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.840 standing in his driveway talking, is someone in a black 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.440 pickup truck, He's not getting murdered by his teenage son 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:00.560 in the home. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:06.199 Mysteriously, that receipt later went missing, and the state contends 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.360 that it must have been earlier and the prom goers 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.400 just missed it somehow. Now after this sighting, we aren't 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.360 sure what happened with the Pellies. At five point thirty, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.240 Bob was expected at the home of another prom goer, Crystal, 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.720 Easter Day, but when he didn't show up, she and 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.360 her date came over to the parsonage between five pointy 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.960 five and six pm, and they found the Pelly station 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.040 wagon in the driveway and the curtains drawn, and there 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.120 was no response when they knocked on the door. 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.080 She made later statements that the doors were locked in 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.360 her earliest statements, there's nothing that suggests she tried to 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.320 determine whether they were locked or not. But that was 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.880 a strong fact the state used because their claim was 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.080 that the Pelly family had already been slain inside that home. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:54.800 Everything that happened after Jeff is accounted for by witnesses. 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.160 You don't know what's then happening with Bob and Don 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.480 and the girls. They're either already deceased or they're potentially 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.600 still at home for whatever reason, didn't fulfill their plans 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.240 for the night. Were they taken somewhere and then brought 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.400 back to the home. That's obviously a possibility, a little 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:13.520 bit more involved, because you would think that someone would 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.720 have seen that were they being held at their home 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.240 that evening, potentially through the early morning hours. 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.240 I think mister Pelly got in that black truck myself. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.280 If mister Pelly's got some inklingess is going on. What 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.880 if mister Pelly left in the black truck and said 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.800 to the family, prom goings over. Lock the house, don't 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:33.520 answer the door. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.120 No one saw anyone coming or going for the rest 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.480 of the night, although there's mention of a limousine with 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:43.760 Florida plates nearby. Additionally, the next door neighbor, Sheila Saunders, 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.200 noted that the Pelly's basement light was on at nine 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.400 to fifteen PM and two am, but when Bob didn't 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.000 show up for Sunday service and the scene was discovered, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.080 it was noted that the basement light was off. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:15:00.320 So Sunday morning, April thirtieth, around nine fifteen, already in 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.640 the morning, a man named Dave Hathaway, who's sort of 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.680 like an elder at the church, realized that Bob wasn't 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.600 in the sanctuary. His stepdaughters weren't running around anywhere. Don 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.800 was not there, and so Dave eventually walks over he 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.920 needs a spare key. Dave walks in through the garage, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.840 gets a couple steps in to go let the other 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.840 elder in, and before he even gets there, he kind 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.920 of looks over into this hallway that leads into the 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.720 bedrooms and sees what he recognizes as Bob Pelly's kind 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:37.800 of thicker glasses on the carpet, some blood, realizes something 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.120 is very wrong, and then obviously, law enforcement is called. 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.280 Dave Hathaway initially mentioned that the blood was still wet, 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.680 but he later recalled it differently and said that the 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.160 blood was dry. Now clarity on that would have been 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.440 very helpful when establishing the timeline. But let's go back 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:54.040 to the scene. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.280 I think the thought always was initially by law enforcement, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.840 that Bob Pelly died first in the hall way upstairs, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:05.520 and then the killer or killers completed the crime downstairs 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.880 with Dawn and the girls unfortunately with their bodies sort 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.720 of positioned on or next to one another, and I 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.080 think that would indicate that they all died at the 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.359 same time or in very quick succession. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:19.840 There's also a gun shot in the stairwell heading down 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.080 into the basement that appears to have been a near miss, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.520 which may support that theory of succession. Interestingly, the shooter 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.520 must have collected the shell casing, so all they found 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.360 were the spent twenty gage shotgun slugs, and watting, which 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.320 is either a paper or plastic part of the bullet 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.000 between the gunpowder and the slug. 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.680 This watting usually falls or flutters to the floor, and 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.800 in this case some of it is in the wounds 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:44.040 or on the clothing of the victim, which just goes 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.800 to show how close in proximity the shooter was to them. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:52.320 There is watting discovered from two different types of shotgun 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.280 shell casings by different manufacturers, which begins to open the 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.840 door of was there one shooter? Was there two shooters? 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.200 It just raises a lot of questions, and. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.040 Establishing the time of death would have gone a long 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.320 way to answering them. Unfortunately, the coroner lost that information 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.280 when he refrigerated the bodies before determining it. But there 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.879 were some interesting findings at autopsy. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:20.160 We do see popcorn in Bob's stomach. Jackie Pelly always says, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.760 like her dad's evening snack before he'd had to preach 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.600 a message the next day, it was popcorn. So it's like, Okay, 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.640 why would he have been eating that in the middle 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.560 of the afternoon or late afternoon. He didn't really have 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.960 opportunity to do that because we know he was visiting 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.800 with parishioners all throughout the afternoon on Saturday, right up 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.240 until about four o'clock. And then all these kids come 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:39.879 over to get their pictures taken. So it's like, did 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.520 they eat those things either right up until they were 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.760 killed or later that night? But how could they have 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:46.520 eaten them if they were already dead? And so it 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:57.639 really begins to kind of throw off the timeline. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.040 Episode of Wrongful Conviction is proudly sponsored by Erase PTSD Now. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.320 Every day, countless individuals face the invisible wounds of trauma 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.119 and PTSD. Your support empowers us to provide life changing 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.520 treatments like the Stelli Ganglion Block SGB, which inhibits nerve 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.080 impulses and helps to restore hope, reclaim lives, and save 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.800 lives after incarceration. Together, we can ensure that those wrongfully 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.360 convicted receive the care they need to heal and reintegrate 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.800 into society. Join us in this mission to erase PTSD 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.880 and uplift our communities. Visit ERASEPTSD noow dot org. That's 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.600 erase PTSD now dot org for more information and ways 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:42.800 to get involved. 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:50.040 When they first began processing the scene, there was a 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.359 Indiana State trooper who came to the scene and was 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.320 familiar with Jeff and Bob Pelly because he was in 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.280 a community club with Bob and had gotten to know Bob, 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.560 and Bob had opened up to him a little bit 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.040 about his sort of parental struggles with Jeff and some 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.720 thefts and people that Bob didn't like that Jeff was 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.080 hanging out with, and bad attitude and things like that, 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.000 the lamenting of a father of a teenage son, and 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.919 so the state trooper came into the crime scene investigation 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.280 with that sort of back history. 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:25.879 Even though the autopsy findings Lois Stansbury and Sheila Saunders 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.760 all suggest that the murders happened later on that night, 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.680 it appears that tunnel vision had already set in and 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.320 the state turned him into some sort of master criminal 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.480 with prowess that would be something out of a spy 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:39.520 thriller or something. 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.600 The lack of physical evidence says a lot in this case, 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.280 because it's not just someone would have had to clean 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.320 themselves up from the biological material, but they would have 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.439 had to get all those shell casings. Be careful not 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.080 to step in any blood, because there's no tracking of 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.439 blood or footprints or shoeprints or sock prints. There's no 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.640 smearing on the floor of any sort of transfer like that. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.600 So this is someone who is being extremely careful, extremely methodic, 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:12.919 picking up shellcasings and then able to close curtains and 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.800 lock doors get rid of all incriminating evidence. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.679 All between five and five sixteen pm. 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.840 Law enforcement and even the prosecution over the years has said, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.359 it's tight, it's a tight window, it is a hard cell. 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.280 We get that. But we believe that he did it 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.760 because we believe that he pre planned to do it. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.240 And so they located as surviving Pelly children. Jesse and 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.200 Jackie were each at their friends' homes, and they said 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.639 that Jeff was at Great America, so that dispels the 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:47.040 state's motive. But then Jackie and Jesse disagreed about whether 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.880 or not the family's twenty gage shotgun was in the home. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:53.639 Jesse, she says that before she left for her sleepover 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.520 on Friday, that the gun was there, that the gun 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.000 was on the rack. That's her memory. She's obviously young, idea, 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.120 don't know how often she went in there and like check, 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.159 so I don't know if that's a memory from a 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.639 pre existing entry into her parents' room or not. 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.720 But according to both Jackie and Thomas Keb that shotgun 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:16.200 was not in the parsonage. Next, Lakeville PD went to 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.800 get Jeff near Great America. They searched his car, found 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.639 a paper grocery bag containing his black Hawaiian shirt and 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.119 blue jeans, which also had a dollar bill and thirty 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.919 four coins in the pocket, and there was also a 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.800 legible receipt in the bag. Jeff was then brought back 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:31.919 to Lakeville for an interview with the cops in the 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.480 company of his grandparents. 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.679 So five am Monday, he waives his rights and he 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.440 gives a statement. It's recorded. When they ask him, can 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.400 you think of anyone that would do this, he readily 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.919 says the only thing I can think of is it 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.359 could be the herse ags And I'm paraphrasing. My dad 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.520 was investigating a theft ring. These kids are mad at 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.720 my dad. You need to go talk to Detective Center. 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.480 Who confirmed what Jeff said. Now without a confession, police 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.200 began to say speculate about Jeff's reaction to the news, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.679 which is never convincing evidence of guilt or innocence, but 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:08.880 people do it anyway. Now, they also inspected his body 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.320 for any injuries and they took pictures. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:15.439