1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: As we gather tonight, our nation is at war, our 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: economy is in recession, and the civilized world faces unprecedented dangers. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: Yet the state of our union has never been stronger. 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: In two thousand and two, the world was still finding 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: its way after the nine to eleven attacks. I had 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: just started a new job in Florida, working as a 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: local reporter and covering the story from a way in 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: which felt really intimate to me because I was invested. 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: It was our world, it was our time, it was 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: our country. The economy was struggling, but American pride was 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: still at an all time high. And now that I 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: look back on it some twenty plus years later, with 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: perspective and distance, it's clear that sports was a source 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: of escape and unity for many, including myself. The WNBA 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: was entering its sixth season, and unfortunately the effects of 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: a post nine to eleven economy were being felt. Attendance 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: had hit a plateau after a record breaking year. The 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: league was hemorrhaging money, and players were frustrated with their 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: salaries and pension plans. The women's game hadn't found its 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 2: footing yet, but the excitement around the sport was still 21 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 2: very much alive. The Los Angeles Sparks had just clinched 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: their second championship by defeating the New York Liberty Monia 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles. 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: In Los Angeles Sparks WNBA champions. 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: Hall of Fame re Lisa Leslie took home the finals MVP. 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: Rebound off fixed board in the putback by Lisa Leslie, 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 3: she the face of the WNBA and for good reason, 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: one of the great players in the history in the league. 29 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 4: Fire gets it up the listening, let's you get it 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 4: out to stay down on the fourth time. 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 5: Mccomy revery us say kay, let's say so. 32 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: Last one what they do and Cheryl Swoops was crowned 33 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: the league MVP that year. 34 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 6: After missing the entire two thousand and one season with 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 6: the torn ACL, Cheryl Swoops returned in two thousand and 36 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 6: two with a vengeance, winning the Defensive Player of the 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 6: Year award and earning ENVP honors. 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: The number one draft pick was a fiery point guard 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: from Yukon. Sue Byrd was going to play for the 40 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: Seattle Storm. Elsewhere in sports, Lance Armstrong, although surrounded by controversy, 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: won his fourth consecutive Tour de France, and that is 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 2: something we can really lol about right now, I know 43 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 2: I am. And in the NFL, Tom Brady and the 44 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: Patriots were dealing with the infamous Tuck rule. On the 45 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: entertainment front, The Lord of the Rings was the highest 46 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: grossing movie of the year. I still haven't seen it, 47 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 2: don't judge me. And one of the most popular songs 48 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: was Nelle hot in Here. But two thousand and two 49 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: wasn't just about championship scandals or blockbusters. It was also 50 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: the year Caitlin Elizabeth Clark was born in West des Moines, Iowa. 51 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 7: Well, my mom has this like piece of paper like 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 7: when I was in second or third grade, and it 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 7: has like you write down like all your dreams and 54 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 7: like these little bubbles, and I remember one of them 55 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 7: was playing the WMBA and earn a basketball scholarship. 56 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 8: I have known Caitlin since she was in eighth grade. 57 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 8: I've been following her. We had been recruiting her since 58 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 8: then because we knew she was such a special talent. 59 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 8: And then it came time for her senior year and 60 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 8: her to make this decision. And she grew up in 61 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 8: a Catholic high school, very strong Catholic family, and so 62 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 8: notre Dame, of course, was a logical decision for her 63 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 8: to make, but her heart wasn't there. 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 9: I don't think anyone has ever called her quiet in 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 9: her life, probably and that's not a bad thing. 66 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 10: I mean, she is just a ball of energy. She 67 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 10: loves people. 68 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 9: She loves entertaining, both on the court with what she 69 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 9: can do, but sometimes even more in joking around and 70 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 9: you know, doing pranks and singing karaoke and just she 71 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 9: is always bringing energy wherever. 72 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 11: She Kaitlyn is an amazing generational talent, and she's going 73 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 11: to do amazing things. 74 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: You know, the number one pick. 75 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 11: People are going to go after you, whether it's for 76 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 11: the right or wrong reasons, because they see greatness in you. 77 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: Naked Sports The Making of a Rivalry a six episode 78 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: docu series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two super 79 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 2: novas in Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, 80 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: Carrie Champion, and welcome to the Making of a Rivalry. Personally, 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: I've never seen a rookie impact the sport the way 82 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: Caitlyn Clark has. I'm sure if I were to find 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: a sports historian, he or she could find a comp 84 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: from a different era but as of late, it's just Caitlyn, 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: when asked at a press conference, how she feels about 86 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: her impact for. 87 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 12: Me coming into these arenas, in these environments, like, I 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 12: look around and it's incredible, Like it really is. I 89 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 12: don't show up and expect like these crowds, Like sure, 90 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 12: like maybe you've been a little bit used to it, 91 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 12: but for me, like that's not anything that ever gets old. 92 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 12: It really is something that's really cool, especially as a 93 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 12: young girl who grew up going to games, and you know, 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 12: as a young girl, I would have came to a 95 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 12: game in a building like this and seen this type 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 12: of crowd. 97 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 10: I think I would have been kind of in heaven. 98 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: I'll measure my opinion by reminding you that the WNBA 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: is still a very young league. It's in its twenty 100 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: eighth year, so some would say that's a small sample size. 101 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: But here are a few more numbers. Since Clark was 102 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: drafted in April and the season began in May, she 103 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 2: made a record breaking one hundred three pointers and counting. 104 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: As we record this story, remember she's still a rook 105 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: The Indiana Fever reportedly led the league in home attendance, 106 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 2: averaging sixteen thousand fans all packed inside the Gamebridge Field 107 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: House to watch women play sports. And what about this 108 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: the Fever road games, they're just as impactful, with an 109 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,239 Speaker 2: average of fifteen thousand fans. Two months into the season, 110 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: Yahoo Sports reported that viewership for WNBA games had trip 111 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 2: across multiple platforms. The team with the most watch games 112 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: you ask Indiana Fever. So when I say Clark is 113 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: the most impactful rookie I've seen in the modern era, 114 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: I'm not searching for a hot take. Numbers never lie. 115 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 8: This year we had the crossover in Kinnick where we 116 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 8: had fifty five thousand people here for our first exhibition 117 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 8: game in our football stadium. 118 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: So we have had a lot going on, five thousand 119 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: people watching women's basketball. It's beautiful. 120 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 8: It's it is beautiful. That's a great way to explain it, Carrie, 121 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 8: it is beautiful. 122 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: Former head coach at Iowa Lisa Bluter was very effective 123 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: with her players and obviously Caitlin, and it was because 124 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: she played the game. Coach Bluter has witnessed its slow evolution. 125 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 8: You know, I played in college from seventy nine to 126 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 8: eighty three, and the think about what we endured, you know, 127 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 8: going in the vans to games as a Division one 128 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 8: school and having one you know, set of uniforms, one 129 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 8: pair of shoe is, no food, no lodging. I mean, 130 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 8: we would have four people in a hotel room. It's crazy, 131 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 8: you know, one hundred people come to watch us play 132 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 8: to now you know what these athletes and how they're 133 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 8: being treated to sell out crowds and on national television. 134 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 8: I'm so glad that I lived when I did, because 135 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 8: I got to see this unbelievable progression of women's athletics, 136 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 8: not just women's basketball, but women's athletics from really its 137 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 8: infancy to right now how it's maturing and becoming so popular, 138 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 8: and so I love that I got to see it now. 139 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 8: I would have loved to have reaped some of the 140 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 8: benefits that the athletes are receiving now, but it really 141 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 8: gives me a different perspective knowing how hard people fought 142 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 8: before me, and how hard we fought to make this 143 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 8: sport grow, and now to see some of the benefits 144 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 8: of that is really rewarding. 145 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 13: Caitlyn Clark is the reason we're talking about women's basketball 146 00:07:59,000 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 13: in twenty twenty four. 147 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: That's my colleague and I consider a dear friend Sabrina Merchant. 148 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: She's a staff writer for The Athletic covering women's basketball. 149 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 13: Yeah, I think we've sort of been building towards this. 150 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 13: I like to point back to the twenty twenty one 151 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 13: INSTEAA tournament when Sedona Prince posted that TikTok from the 152 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 13: bubble in San Antonio and we saw this dramatic disparity 153 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 13: in what the weight room looked like in San Antonio 154 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 13: for the women's tournament versus what it looked like in 155 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 13: Indianapolis for the men's tournament. 156 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 5: I got something to show, y'all. So for the NCAA 157 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 5: March Madness, the biggest tournament in college basketball for women, 158 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 5: this is our weight room. Let me show y'all the 159 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 5: men's weight room. 160 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 4: Let me show y'all something else. 161 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 5: Here's our practice court, right, and then here's that weight room, 162 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 5: and then here's all this extra space. If you aren'tupset 163 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 5: about this problem, then you're a part of it. 164 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 13: And you know that just made it very clear to 165 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 13: everyone how Title nine is being violated at the NAA 166 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 13: level and what women were having to deal with just 167 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 13: personal experience wise, compared to their male counterparts. So I 168 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 13: think that you know which spurred the Capital and report 169 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 13: and caused DANCEAA to look into its memory institutions and 170 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 13: figure out, like, why aren't we letting the women use 171 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 13: the march madness term? And why aren't these games on television? 172 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 13: And why isn't there a first four for the women 173 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 13: like the First four and the men's tournament, and just 174 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 13: all of these little things that were holding the women 175 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 13: back that this one TikTok really just set into conversation. 176 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 2: When that video went viral and many people saw what 177 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: women had to deal with during the tournament, how did 178 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 2: that make you feel. 179 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 8: Embarrassed that we were being treated this poorly, you know, 180 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 8: as women that were striving so hard to be you know, 181 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 8: excellent in our fields, and that we were being treated 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 8: like this, and it was just so good. Nobody was listening, 183 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 8: but a student athlete took it upon themselves, and the 184 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 8: power of video right showed exactly what she was talking about. 185 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 8: Suddenly when that went viral, people couldn't believe it, but 186 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 8: it had been happening. But it took a student athlete 187 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 8: in the visual of what was going on in order 188 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 8: to make change. And so I think we have to 189 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 8: credit her tremendously for that and it was unacceptable. I'm 190 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 8: so glad that the changes that were seen now really 191 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 8: became because of COVID, and so there is a real 192 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 8: positive to look in at that, because I don't think 193 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 8: it would have happened our changes, would it out have 194 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 8: happened as quickly as effectively as they're happening now without 195 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 8: COVID and that experience that we had in the bubble. 196 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 2: The bubble not only highlighted the deplorable conditions, but it 197 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: also revealed a superstar in the making. When rivalry returns, 198 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: who is Caitlin Clark? 199 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 14: I remember Kaylin Clark going viral for like logo threes 200 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 14: and step back threes, and it was like, oh, she 201 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 14: plays light step That's what I was hearing. And I 202 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 14: was like, oh, Like, I hadn't seen somebody in a 203 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 14: minute shooting from that deep. I hadn't seen I've seen 204 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 14: players really good, but logo threes was her thing, and 205 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 14: I was like, Iowa, I don't remember Iowa being good. 206 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 14: Like when I was growing up, it was like Yukon, 207 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 14: it was Tennessee, Texas, A and m was good. For 208 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 14: a while, it was Baylor, but Iowa. I was like, 209 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 14: I don't remember Iowa, so I started like paying attention. 210 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 15: Then Caitlyn Clark is a dog. 211 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 16: Kaitlyn Clark is one of those players that if you 212 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 16: are a coach or a teammate, you are so grateful 213 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 16: that she is going to put in every single ounce 214 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 16: of time and effort at every chance she's given to 215 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 16: make sure that when she shows up, she has the 216 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 16: best chance to win. 217 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 2: And that is close to my heart. 218 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 16: Because I have a serious competition problem that the older 219 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 16: I get, the less useful it is and the more 220 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 16: problematic it is. But when you've got somebody else that 221 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 16: you can see that in, and when you look at 222 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 16: athletes that you know how much it means to them 223 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 16: and how much. 224 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 8: It matters to them to win, that's who you want 225 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 8: to root for. 226 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 16: That's who you want to play alongside. So first and foremost, 227 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,599 Speaker 16: Kaitlyn and Clark is a competitor. 228 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 4: I can remember the very first time I watched and play. 229 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 4: She was a freshman at Iowa. We were doing our 230 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 4: coverage of women's college games from studio in Bristol because 231 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 4: of the pandemic, and Sue Bird, who's a dear friend 232 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 4: of mine, and I would carpool to Bristol and because 233 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 4: Sue was doing some studio for us while I was 234 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 4: doing the games, but everything was happening from studio. And 235 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 4: as we're walking in to the studio carry you remember, 236 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 4: there's the kind of the back room with all the 237 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,599 Speaker 4: different monitors and TVs, and Sue is like, Hey, we 238 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 4: got to go check out the Iowa game. And I'm like, 239 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 4: the Iowa game. By the Iowa game, and she was like, Oh, 240 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 4: they have this freshman named Caitlin Clark who shoots like 241 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 4: Steph Curry from crazy distance. 242 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 2: Back in a moment, let me let you in on 243 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 2: a little secret. As I write this, I am filled 244 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: with a bit of anks about how this docuseries will 245 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: be received by the public. And that's just be honest. 246 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: I really think the media has fueled perceived rivalry between 247 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: these two stars as something that's not good. But I 248 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: truly believe that their greatness can bring people together rather 249 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: than divide them, and my hope is that the fans 250 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: can celebrate one without tearing down the other. I had 251 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: the chance to interview Ryan Rugo from ESPN. He caught 252 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: the LSU Iowa game in twenty twenty three, and he 253 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: covers most of the huge matchups in the WNBA. I 254 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 2: asked him to share how Caitlin Clark became such a 255 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: darling of the sport. 256 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 4: Caitlyn continues to get better and better, and then her 257 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 4: moments become more and more viral, and all of a sudden, 258 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 4: you have people who are seeing clips of her and 259 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 4: they're saying, oh my gosh, who is this. They're seeing 260 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 4: the insane no look passes, they're seeing the downcour passes. 261 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 4: But more than anything else at this moment, what they're 262 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 4: seeing is they're seeing someone pull up off the dribble 263 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 4: from thirty thirty five forty feet and just having these 264 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 4: incredible performances as someone who's leading the nation and scoring 265 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 4: and assisting over and over again. And then junior year 266 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: comes and they have a lot of these, you know, highlights, 267 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 4: building building, and the interest is building, and then she 268 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 4: takes Iowa on this epic run and then they go 269 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 4: to the national championship game for the first time, and 270 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 4: so everybody who's being drawn in to her style of 271 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 4: play is then seeing her succeed and getting to watch 272 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 4: her longer in these high stakes games. You know, I 273 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 4: don't know what is and is unperceived, but I don't 274 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 4: know if people fully appreciate how much of a killer 275 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 4: competitor Kaitln is. Like she is a killer. She demands 276 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 4: from her teammates, you know she's and I think that right. 277 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 4: Thompson article that came out did a great job of 278 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 4: documenting that, like how Kaitlin in Iowa first was untrusting 279 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 4: of making certain passes to her teammates because she was like, 280 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 4: you're not in the gym like. 281 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 11: I'm in the gym. 282 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: Can't Kobe, I can't respect you. 283 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 4: It very exactly, very Kobe like, like you mean, maybe 284 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 4: you're not going to have the talent I have, but 285 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 4: like you're gonna work like I work, or it's gonna 286 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 4: be hard for me to trust you. And I think 287 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: that people don't fully appreciate like Caitlyn is a killer 288 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: and the other thing I don't know if this fully 289 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 4: appreciated with Kaitln is the winning she did at the 290 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 4: collegiate level back to back. That was like it is 291 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 4: not easy to do what she did at Iowa, you know, 292 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 4: like to take that team to back to back national 293 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 4: championship games. You know that's not a program. They had 294 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 4: never been there. You know, that's not a program. That 295 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 4: has you know, winning embedding it right. She wasn't looking 296 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: around on her roster. Now they had some good players, 297 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 4: So I think sometimes are actually underrated. But it's not 298 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 4: like she was surrounded by all Americans, you know, and 299 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 4: and so I think sometimes because you never know, like, well, 300 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 4: how does the winning translate from one level to the next. 301 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 4: But I almost think my projecting ahead for her and 302 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 4: her role and her impact in the WNBA, maybe the 303 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: way she was able to win in college was actually 304 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 4: a little undersould because it was that impressive. 305 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 2: How was it coaching, Caitlin. I've read a few of 306 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: your quotes, seen a few of your interviews, and you 307 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: said the relationship obviously is key, but it would not 308 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: have worked if she would have been with a coach 309 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: that said my way or the highway, And it would 310 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: not have worked if she would have been with a 311 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: coach that was inexperienced. So you were able to have 312 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: a happy medium talk to me about that relationship. 313 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 8: I think it was the right thing for her and 314 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 8: to be able to have somebody that she couldn't run over, 315 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 8: because she would have run over somebody that maybe didn't, 316 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 8: you know, have the confidence or the experience to deal 317 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 8: with that because she has a very strong personality and 318 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 8: she's also somebody that needs some give and take. And 319 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 8: you've got to listen to her because she has good 320 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 8: ideas and she's got an unbelievable basketball IQ. And so, 321 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 8: you know, instead of preaching to her, work with her. 322 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 8: Like when i'd watch film with her, we would work 323 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 8: through it together. Instead of me saying, well, you should 324 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 8: have done this, you should have done that. I think 325 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 8: that would have created this, you know, chasm that would 326 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 8: have been really hard for her. So as we are 327 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 8: going through coaching Caitlin, you know, she has a strong personality, 328 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 8: she is very fiery, She's got lots of passion, and 329 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 8: I would always tell my staff listen that passion is 330 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 8: what makes her great, and that makes her what people 331 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 8: want to watch. So let's not put a bushel light, 332 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 8: Let's not put a bushel basket over that light. Let's 333 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 8: let that light shine. And I think that's what we did, 334 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 8: is we we came to a happy medium of Okay, 335 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 8: you're going to be respectful, but we're still going to 336 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 8: let you have your passion and be able to, you know, 337 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 8: be able to. I think people loved watching her play 338 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 8: because of that. 339 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I remember on many occasions watching you coach her, 340 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 2: and even especially in the attorney, and you would say 341 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 2: something that I and I don't know if I misinterpreted this, 342 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 2: but she's so fast, sometimes too fast, and I would 343 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: I would see you saying slow down, slow down. Was 344 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: that a thing for you to tell her? Just to 345 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: because she'd race right back up the court, you know, 346 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: and you're like, wait, they're not here yet. I felt 347 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: like I saw you do this a lot, like give 348 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: her the gesture of just let it come to you. 349 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: Was that one of the one of the things that 350 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 2: you were trying to teach her. 351 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 8: But you know, it was more of breathe, you know, 352 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 8: honestly breathing sometimes slowing down, and so that you can 353 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 8: control your emotions, you can control your passion, and you 354 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 8: can make better decisions. And so sometimes you know, she 355 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 8: just would get a little you know, she gets mad 356 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 8: at herself, right, It's just and it looks like she's 357 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 8: maybe mad at of teammates or somebod else, but she's 358 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 8: mad at herself. She's in a competitor, ultimate competitor. So 359 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 8: mostly it was just like take that breath, You're okay, 360 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 8: you're great. You know, it was just that trust that 361 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 8: we had between each other. 362 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: By all accounts, people who have coach Caitlyn and covered 363 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: Kaitlin describe her as a fierce competitor, strong personality. Ryan 364 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: Ruko said it was Kobe like and if you're really 365 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 2: watching the game, you can see it. But I keep 366 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: asking myself, why are so many journalists and fans ignoring 367 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: that competitive side that makes her great? Why is there 368 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 2: a reluctance to analyze the good and the bad of 369 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: her game? We don't do that with the men. I 370 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: also think we forget it's that killer side that makes 371 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: her so great that also moves her to talk her 372 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: ish as the kids would say to the players and 373 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: the refs. And if trash talking is a bad thing, 374 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 2: I don't want any part of the WNBA. Clark leads 375 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: the league in turnovers and an assists. In fact, she's 376 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: also one of the top five players that leads the 377 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: WNBA in technicals. As of August eighteenth, Caitlyn Clark was 378 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 2: two techs away from an unpaid one game suspension. 379 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 12: I got a technical for basically being mad at my 380 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 12: myself because I missed the three, and then I went 381 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 12: and hit the backboard, and he told me it was 382 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 12: disrespectful to the game of basketball. 383 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 11: So I don't know. 384 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 12: It reminded me of the technical that I got in college, 385 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 12: where I said, damn it, where it's like a personal frustration. 386 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 12: Had nothing to do with my team, had nothing to 387 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 12: do with reffing, had nothing to do with other team. 388 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 12: It was just because I'm a competitor and I felt 389 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 12: like I should have been making more shots. 390 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: So but Clark also thanked the ref for the tech. 391 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: She said it was motivation. Any great player can be 392 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 2: motivated by what is perceived as a weakness, and like 393 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 2: most players in the WNBA, Caitlin Clark is seemingly frustrated 394 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: by the way women are allowed to compete. 395 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 12: I think it still does surprise me that people like 396 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 12: get a little distraught about like women being competitive and 397 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 12: getting into little arguments on the core or having a 398 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 12: little trash talk, and that's how it should be. I 399 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 12: think more than anything, it's like surprising, like you guys 400 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 12: didn't know, like this is how women's sports are played, 401 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 12: Like come on. 402 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,360 Speaker 2: Kristin Meyer, head coach at Dowling Catholic High School where 403 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: Clark developed her skills, has been there from the start 404 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: nurturing Caitlin through her teenage years. 405 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 9: It definitely did not take long to realize, oh, this 406 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 9: is a different level of an athlete of a competitor. 407 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 8: And so yeah, I think some of what. 408 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 10: She could do with the ball passing creating her own 409 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 10: shots stood out. But the confidence she has. 410 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 9: And you see that now even in the WNBA, she 411 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 9: steps on the court, she's in her happy place, but 412 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 9: she is in her confident place. And to watch her 413 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 9: play basketball, whether she was an eighth grader or now 414 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 9: in the WNBA as very similar and just seeing her 415 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 9: be able to use her skills to the fullest potential. 416 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 2: You said she was a different type of athlete when 417 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 2: you saw her. What does that mean? What was different 418 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: about her outside of just her being able to create 419 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 2: her shots and her confidence? How do you recognize that 420 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: jenas a quah. Is it just something you feel? 421 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 10: I think it's part of something that I felt. 422 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 9: But also when you watch her play, her vision and 423 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 9: her understanding of the game, the game is literally slowed 424 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 9: down in her mind, you know, and she sees these 425 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 9: passing angles that even the past or the receiver of 426 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 9: the past doesn't even see, you know, And you're watching 427 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 9: in the stands or on the side of the court, 428 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 9: and you don't always even see it as a coach, 429 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 9: you know, or a fan until it happens. And so 430 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 9: just to see firsthand how the how she sees the game. 431 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 9: And it's kind of hard to explain because even as 432 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 9: we watch her, you can't get in her mind. 433 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 10: But the game is literally slower for her than other people. 434 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: Now she watches as Clark navigates the highs and lows 435 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: of her unique and also unprecedented journey in the WNBA. 436 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: More specifically, the social media frenzy that perpetuates a rivalry 437 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: between her and Reees. 438 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 9: Well, I think with a lot of things in the media, 439 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 9: and especially with social media, things get blown out of proportion. 440 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 9: I think, especially early in the WNBA season, people tried 441 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 9: to pit Caitlin versus Angel, and I'm so glad they 442 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 9: got to be on the same team for the. 443 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 10: All Star Game. 444 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 9: Like Caitlyn has the utmost respect for Angel, and personally 445 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 9: I have loved watching her play in the WNBA and 446 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 9: the double doubles she gets and the rebounding. You know, 447 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 9: I'm telling my high school athletes watch how she rebounds, 448 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 9: you know, look at that intensity, and so I think 449 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 9: it is possible to respect all athletes to point out 450 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 9: the good things they do. It doesn't have to be 451 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 9: Caitlin versus Angel and anything. You know, people are trying 452 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 9: to talk about the Rookie of the Year race and 453 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 9: all these things, and it's two incredible athletes who are 454 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 9: competing every day and trying to get better and grow 455 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 9: the game. And yeah, when they're playing each other the 456 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 9: Fever versus Sky, they're cutthroat, they're trying to win. But 457 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 9: you know, they got to play on the All Star 458 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 9: Game together and they had a great time. And I 459 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 9: know Caitlyn has so much respect. 460 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 10: For Angel and love seeing the game grow from that. 461 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 9: And unfortunately, I think people like to try to put 462 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 9: a little drama into things even if it isn't there. 463 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 10: But that's kind of how things go. 464 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: But Coach, is that a bad thing for the sport? 465 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 8: The drama? 466 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 9: I don't think it's bad, but when it kind of 467 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 9: goes to untrue, you know, And cause I always think 468 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 9: about high school athletes middle school athletes. Do we always 469 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 9: want to build competitive people, Yes, but if you see 470 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 9: someone's you know, trying to make it like another athlete 471 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 9: is cutting down someone else or trying to dim that 472 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 9: other athlete's light. 473 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 10: I personally don't like that. 474 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 9: And so the competitiveness, yeah, I'm trying to beat you, 475 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 9: whether it's one on one or my team versus your team, 476 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 9: or stats or whatever, that's fine. 477 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 8: But when I think some. 478 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 9: People have trying to take it more personal, I personally 479 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 9: don't like seeing that. And I know some people have 480 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 9: brought race into the conversation, and so those things just 481 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 9: get a little bit skewed from you know, what reality is. 482 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 9: And so those are the things that I think about, 483 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 9: especially working with younger athletes, of how do we help, 484 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 9: especially female athletes, have respect for everyone and still be 485 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 9: you know, competitors on the court, but respect them off 486 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 9: the court. 487 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: I've been speaking to a lot of journalists for this 488 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: docu series. Many have said that during the conversation about 489 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: Kaitlin Clark and Angel Reese, they've been afraid to really 490 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: share their honest opinions because they are immediately categorized as 491 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: either racist and or angry and or pro Caitlin and 492 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 2: or anti Angel. And you touched on it briefly. Do 493 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: you believe was there a way for that ever to 494 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: be avoided in this country that we live in, Coach. 495 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 9: I think maybe twenty years ago, you know, without social media. 496 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 9: To be honest, I think social media and letting every 497 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 9: single person be able to publicly post their own opinions, 498 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 9: and sometimes those opinions are solely posted just to get 499 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 9: likes and controversy controversial topics has made things a little 500 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 9: bit uglier. But you know, but it has brought ice 501 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 9: to the game, So I don't think it's bad that 502 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 9: it's brought ice to the game, but I think there's 503 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 9: been a lot of negativity that has been brought to 504 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 9: it as well, which is too bad to see it. 505 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 10: And I don't know live in rainbows and roses society 506 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 10: where everything is just. 507 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 9: Going to be you know, compliments and things. But I 508 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 9: think some people have taken it down a darker path 509 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 9: than it needs to go, and which isn't fair. 510 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 10: To those athletes. 511 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 2: It isn't fair. I agree with that, but it's a 512 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: reality of the world we live in. Most people see 513 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 2: the world through their filter a story as the oldest 514 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: time is white versus black. Caitlin and Angel have changed 515 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: the way we consume sports, but I also believe that 516 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: they live right at that intersection of greatness and unity. 517 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: Once we remove all these negative associations with the word 518 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 2: or idea of rivalry and be honest about the racial 519 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 2: realities that do exist not only in this country and 520 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 2: in politics, but also in this league, we then can 521 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: see a universal change. So when it comes to Caitlin Clark, 522 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: let's treat her like the athlete, the competitor, and the 523 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: baller that she is. Here's Sarah Spain of the Good 524 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 2: Game podcast. 525 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 16: The thing with Caitlin Clark is there are so many 526 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 16: people wanting to heap so much praise, and it is deserved. 527 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 16: But the point where they go too far is when 528 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 16: they ignore the existence of the league's growing popularity before 529 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 16: she arrived, and ignore the fact that if the product 530 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 16: sucked and she got there, it would not be an 531 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 16: interesting conversation. 532 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 8: It would not be fun to watch. There wouldn't be 533 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 8: stories to tell. 534 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 16: It would just be one player who showed up and 535 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 16: shot a bunch of great threes. But I think when 536 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 16: you have a conversation about Caitlin Clark, Sue Bird was 537 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 16: on my show Good Game with Sarah Spain and said, 538 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 16: when Lebron arrived in the NBA, people didn't forget Michael 539 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 16: Jordan existed, like they acknowledged his greatness, but they weren't 540 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 16: like no one else has ever lived, And some people 541 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 16: are trying to. 542 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 2: Do that with Caitlin, and I think calling her the 543 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 2: best ever, yeah, yeah, exactly. 544 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 16: I think where the fault lies is to ignore the 545 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 16: greatness around her, and to ignore that she's not one 546 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 16: of the best players in the league right now, that 547 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,239 Speaker 16: there's players that are playing at much higher level than 548 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 16: her that you could be watching and admiring and appreciating 549 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 16: if you opened up your lens a little bigger. And 550 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 16: I also think the league would not be in the 551 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 16: place that it is in now if not for the 552 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 16: excitement that she draws. 553 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark has given the league new life. She's opened 554 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: the eyes of Fairweather fans and critics their style of 555 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: play transcends. She is definitely on divine assignment, but she's 556 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 2: not the only reason why this moment in women's sports 557 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: is evolving. When we come back, we preview episode three, 558 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 2: Who is Angel Reese? You're listening to the making of 559 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: a rivalry back in a moment. 560 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 17: It all started from the National Championship game, and I've 561 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 17: been dealing with this for two years now and understanding like, yeah, 562 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 17: negative things have probably been said about me, but honestly, 563 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 17: I'll take that because look where women's basketball is. People 564 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 17: are talking about women's basketball. You've never think that we 565 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 17: talking about women's basketball. People are pulling up the games. 566 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 17: We got celebrities coming to games, soda aut arenas, like 567 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 17: just because of one single game, and just looking at that, like, 568 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 17: I'll take that role. I'll take the bad guy role, 569 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 17: and I'll continue to take that on and be that 570 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 17: for my teammates. And if I want to be that, 571 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 17: and I know I'll go down to history, I'll look 572 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 17: back at twenty years and be like, yeah, the reason 573 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 17: why we watching women's basketball is not just because of 574 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 17: one person. 575 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 12: It's because of me too. And I want try to 576 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 12: realize that. 577 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 2: Angel Reese told us in college that she would gladly 578 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 2: play the role of a villain. But I gotta be honest, 579 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 2: I don't want that for her. I do not want 580 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 2: one moment to define who she is as a person. 581 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: I hate it because as a black woman, I've been 582 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: labeled one as well. It's a story that is also 583 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: old as time and not very creative. But unfortunately or fortunately, 584 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: depending on how you look at it. It's a narrative 585 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: that creates a musty tension that I believe this country 586 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 2: is addicted to in every single discipline. Cav on stage 587 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: is a comedian and a culture expert, so this is. 588 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 14: This is something that happens commonly in America, so it 589 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 14: only makes sense that it's happening again. But usually those 590 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 14: sports rise to the top. So I'm not saying I'll 591 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 14: be happy like that racism played a part, but I 592 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 14: think I'll be happy that the WNBA grows and these 593 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 14: women are paid more as a result, and we get 594 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 14: more games, maybe next the season, expanded teams, all type 595 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 14: of this stuff. 596 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: So you're saying the rivalry and the fact that they 597 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: are the one is black and one is white has 598 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: done nothing but actually help the league. 599 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 14: Black athletes and white athletes do the same thing, and 600 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 14: it's looked at very differently. And with Angel Reese, I 601 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 14: was like, here we go. Like so as a black person, 602 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 14: I'm like, now I got to ride for you because 603 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 14: I got to defend black women. 604 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 18: I'm gonna be on your side. 605 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 14: So that's what I remember, like it becoming a huge, 606 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 14: huge thing. And I remember they played the next year 607 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 14: and I remember saying, you know, I did make my joke. 608 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 14: I was like, Race War two is happening. 609 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 2: So when Catherine Clark was asked about the rivalry and 610 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: how fans have used her name in vain to further 611 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 2: their own racist agenda, she had this to say, I 612 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: think it's disappointing. 613 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 19: I think, you know, everybody in our world, you know, 614 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 19: deserves them the same amount of respect. The women in 615 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 19: our league deserve the same amount of respect. So people 616 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 19: should not be easy my name to the first of 617 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 19: those agendas. 618 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 8: It's disappointing. 619 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 19: Uh, you know, it's not acceptable, But yeah, I mean 620 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 19: this league is the league I grew up admiring and 621 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 19: wanting to be a part of. Like some of the 622 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 19: women in this league were my biggest idols and role 623 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 19: models growing up and helped me wanting to achieve this 624 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 19: moment right here that I get to play in every 625 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 19: single night. So just treating every single woman this we 626 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 19: leave with the same amount of respect. I think it's 627 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 19: just a basic human thing that everybody should do, Like, 628 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 19: you know, just be a kind person and treats him 629 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 19: you know, how you would want to be treated. 630 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 2: And I think it's, you know, very simple. 631 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 17: It's the time right now where you kind of have 632 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 17: to have thick skin, being able to be one of 633 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 17: the faces and just being able to have to wake 634 00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 17: up every day and try to be strong. I think 635 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 17: have a great support system and they've helped me through 636 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 17: this all. So I just love waking up every day 637 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 17: and just continue to look in the mirror and saying, 638 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 17: just stay strong, continue to do this. And there's so 639 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 17: many people that look up to me. So I just 640 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 17: continue to wake up every day and just how. 641 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: To be there from heavy is the ground that Angel 642 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: must wear. Ron James AAU coach for Angel in high school, so. 643 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 18: A standard and expectation was there and it just grew 644 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 18: into this lovely coach player relationship where we could talk 645 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 18: about anything and everything and still can't. We still do 646 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 18: to this day. It wasn't always pretty right, but I 647 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 18: was okay with that. You know a lot of people 648 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 18: when you get that and sometimes you know challenge. You know, 649 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 18: Angel challenges, right, but if you think about what she's 650 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 18: challenging about, she's always challenging about strategy of how to win, 651 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 18: and I was always okay with that. There are some 652 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 18: people that just can't handle that kind of a personality. 653 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 18: And I always say, you know, some people are for 654 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 18: Angeling and some people are not. I don't know how 655 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 18: people box her out. She is relentless on the boards. 656 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 18: She has a knap for the ball, but she also 657 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 18: has a star power in the sense that like for me, 658 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 18: when I was playing, I did not leave my house. 659 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 18: I wanted to be so focused on the game ahead. 660 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 15: But instead, you know, we have women that are so 661 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 15: confident in their game that they can go to met 662 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 15: Gala and come back and get a double double. They 663 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 15: can go on stage with med THEE Stallion and go 664 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 15: out there and break rookie records and WNBA records. 665 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 8: To me, that's the next. 666 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 15: Generation where you grew up embracing your differences instead of 667 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 15: trying to conform to what people think you should be 668 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 15: doing as an athlete. And that's what's taking us to 669 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 15: the next level. And that type of confidence. I would 670 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 15: love Angel to just like throw that on me sometimes. 671 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 2: All that more on episode three, Who Is Angel Reese? 672 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: Talk to y'all next week. The Making of a Rivalry 673 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: Caitlin Clark Versus Angel Reese is a Be Honest production 674 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: in partnership with the Black Effect Podcast Network. In iHeart 675 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: women's sports. Written and executive produced by me Carrie Champion. 676 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 2: Supervising producer is Arlene Santana, produced by Jock Vice Thomas 677 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 2: Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu 678 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 2: Sayle Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of the Black 679 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, if you're new 680 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 2: to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast, and for those 681 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 2: who've been with us since season one, thank you for 682 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: right now. We're kicking off season four with this six 683 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 2: episode docu series that you're listening to right now, and 684 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: after that, Naked Sports will continue to live at the 685 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: intersection of sports, politics, and culture. We're covering all things 686 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: from the presidential race to the WNBA Rookie of the 687 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: Year contests. This season will be bold, as you can 688 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 2: already tell, no holds barred, but also we'll bring you 689 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes our show so 690 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 2: very unique. We appreciate you for being here and thank 691 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 2: you all for the support. We'll talk to you next week.