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Speaker 1: Blood on the Tracks is a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Double Elvis. John Lennon was a musical genius

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Speaker 1: and one of the most beloved cultural figures of the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. His songs inspired dreamers to imagine, his search

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Speaker 1: for the truth gave power to the people. But some

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Speaker 1: thought he dreamed too much. Others thought he was too powerful.

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Speaker 1: So he was followed, he was threatened, he was declared

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Speaker 1: a danger to the United States, and in night he

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Speaker 1: was assassinated. This is his story told by his so

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Speaker 1: called friends. This especial agent Jim Steele with the Federal

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Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation work in case number double oh nine

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Speaker 1: DA zero eight zero four nine one. Case subject is

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Speaker 1: Lennon John Winston oh No. This information pertains to a

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Speaker 1: period ending December. Interview subject because Chapman Mark David interview

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Speaker 1: number zero death seven one Dash six nine dash five

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Speaker 1: one recail number one December. I knew what I was

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Speaker 1: going to shoot him that night. I absolutely did. I

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Speaker 1: tried not to. I prayed that it wouldn't happen, but

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Speaker 1: deep down I knew it would come to that. I

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Speaker 1: stood in front of the mirror in my hotel room

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Speaker 1: at the Sheraton and thought, look, this is me, probably

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Speaker 1: this is the real me, this is my past, and

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm going, I'm going to another place. It was

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Speaker 1: like I was going through a door, the poet's door,

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Speaker 1: William Blake's door, Jim Morrison's door. I was leaving my past.

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Speaker 1: I was leaving what I was and going into a

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Speaker 1: future of uncertainty. There were tremendous feelings of Holden Caulfield

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Speaker 1: and The Catcher and the Rye. The paragraphs and sentences

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Speaker 1: of that book were flowing through my brain and entering

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Speaker 1: my blood, influencing my thoughts and actions. My very soul

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Speaker 1: was breathing between the pages of The Catcher in the Rye.

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Speaker 1: Then I loaded cartridges into the five empty slots on

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Speaker 1: the cylinder of my charter arms thirty eight pistol, and

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Speaker 1: looked into the mirror once again. I held the pistol

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Speaker 1: up in my right hand, close to the chamber, with

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Speaker 1: a flick of my wrist, and I looked dead into

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Speaker 1: my own eyes and said out loud, the Catcher and

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Speaker 1: the Rye of my generation, Chapter twenty. And I walked

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Speaker 1: out the front door of the Sheritan and made my

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Speaker 1: way over to the Dakota. John Lennard's songs wouldn't leave

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Speaker 1: my head. All I could hear was John le I

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Speaker 1: could see the songs. They were on the asphalts of

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Speaker 1: in the clouds, and they tumbled down the stairways of

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Speaker 1: subway stations. The songs were covered in blood. Blood all

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Speaker 1: over the songs, blood all the tracks. Chapter nine, John

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Speaker 1: Lennon and Mark David Chapman. He do you want to

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Speaker 1: know what goes on inside my head? Do you really

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Speaker 1: want to know? That's why you're here? Isn't it to

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Speaker 1: dig through the depths of my mind to determine once

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Speaker 1: and for all why I did what I did? Why

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Speaker 1: did Mark David Chapman shoot John Lennon in the back

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Speaker 1: four times on the evening of December eighth, ninety Why? Why? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I've told the headshrinkers everything, already told them over and

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Speaker 1: over again. I've probably talked with a dozen of them

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Speaker 1: for hundreds of hours, if not thousands. I'm serious. I'm

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Speaker 1: just about sick to death of it. Like I told them,

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Speaker 1: I was a nobody. Mark David Chapman was a nobody,

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Speaker 1: a failure. I couldn't even hold down a job at

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Speaker 1: the hospital. The same hospital in Hawaii that I was

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Speaker 1: rushed to when I tried to take my own life

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Speaker 1: at two. That was just three years before I took

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Speaker 1: someone else's life, John Lennon's life. Anyway, the hospital probably

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Speaker 1: took pity on me and gave me a job in

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Speaker 1: the print shop. But I failed that, just like I

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Speaker 1: failed everything else. Being a nobody, Being a failure, I

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Speaker 1: was sick to death of that too, made me angry.

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Speaker 1: I've been angry for years, mostly at other kids in

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Speaker 1: school and at my father. Abusive, neglectful. He really did

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Speaker 1: a number on my mother when he left, left us

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Speaker 1: with nothing. For years, I focused my anger on him.

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Speaker 1: This fantasy played out over and over again in my head.

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Speaker 1: I tracked my father down, get him alone, bring a

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Speaker 1: gun with me, I leave a competition to the part.

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Speaker 1: I'd press it to his temple, press it so hard

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Speaker 1: that it would leave a mark, and I'd remind him

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Speaker 1: about all the awful things he'd done to my mother

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Speaker 1: and tell him that he would pay for it. He'd

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Speaker 1: pay for her pain, he'd pay for my anger. And

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Speaker 1: then I'd ask him if he was scared, if he

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Speaker 1: was scared of dying, if he was scared of going

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Speaker 1: to hell. I'd say, well, this is it, Dad, and

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Speaker 1: then I'd pull the trigger. But I never did, never

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Speaker 1: followed through. It was too weak, too scared. There was

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Speaker 1: nobody now take John Lennon. John Lennon was somebody. He

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Speaker 1: was a somebody. He was the leader of the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: The Beatles were my favorite band shot But John Lennon

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Speaker 1: squandered what he had. I'm not saying that he took

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Speaker 1: it for granted. I mean that he turned his back

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Speaker 1: on it. He turned his back on who he truly was.

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Speaker 1: He was a phony, That's what Holding Caulfield would say,

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Speaker 1: a real phony. He was a millionaire who saying imagine

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Speaker 1: no possessions. He was a hypocrite. John Lennon saying that

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Speaker 1: he didn't believe in God, didn't believe in Beatles. Who

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Speaker 1: in the hell does he think he is? That's what

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Speaker 1: I would ask myself, Who in the hell does John

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Speaker 1: Lennon think he is? To say that he's bigger than Jesus?

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Speaker 1: And that really rubbed me the wrong way. John Lennon

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Speaker 1: had walked through a door. He left behind who he

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Speaker 1: used to be and became someone different. But the person

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Speaker 1: he became, the place he went to Phony. I figured

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Speaker 1: I could show the world that John Lennon didn't deserve

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Speaker 1: to be somebody. I could have suppose him for what

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Speaker 1: he truly was, and in doing so I could become somebody.

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Speaker 1: I could be famous, I could get attention. I didn't

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Speaker 1: just come around to this on the fly. All Willy

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Speaker 1: Nilly I had practiced. I was a king once. I

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Speaker 1: was king of the little people. The little people were

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Speaker 1: much smaller than me. They lived inside the walls. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't just their king, I was their hero. My face

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Speaker 1: was on the front page of the newspapers that they read.

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Speaker 1: I was on the televisions that they watched. They even

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Speaker 1: worshiped me. I was a god to them. I play

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Speaker 1: them my Beatles records. But sometimes the dark clouds came,

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Speaker 1: not to the little people, to me, the dark clouds

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Speaker 1: in my head. The clouds would come and I would

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Speaker 1: start to think about my father, all right, think about

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Speaker 1: the kids who beat on me on the basketball court

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Speaker 1: back in high school. Would happen Where I think about

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Speaker 1: John Lennon, the Phony Beatle recovered bod I'd get angry.

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Speaker 1: There was a couch in my living room. The couch

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Speaker 1: had a button. I think it was to help the

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Speaker 1: couch reclined. But in my mind, the button was directly

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Speaker 1: wired two explosives in the wall right where the little

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Speaker 1: people lived. I was the only one who had access

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Speaker 1: to that button. I had the power. I knew it

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Speaker 1: would come to that. The clouds would gather in my

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Speaker 1: head and I would get so furious, and my thumb

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Speaker 1: would press down hard on that button. My thumb would

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Speaker 1: ache like it had been stunned. The wall would explode,

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Speaker 1: hundreds of little people dead, thousands of little people dead.

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Speaker 1: I old off entire families, villages, reports. Then I calm down,

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Speaker 1: the clouds would break up. I'd regret what I had done.

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Speaker 1: I'd apologize to the little people, to those who had

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Speaker 1: been spared. I would apologize to them, and then they

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Speaker 1: would all forgive me. They're king, they're hero, their God,

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Speaker 1: and then everything would go back to normal. At first,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to tell anyone anything. They charged me

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Speaker 1: with second degree murder. They said I was insane, this

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Speaker 1: is me that I wasn't fit to stand trial. Probably fine,

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Speaker 1: I thought, let them think I'm insane. They were holding

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Speaker 1: me at Riker's Island. They put me in a bulletproof

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Speaker 1: vest and walked me over to court just so my

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Speaker 1: attorney you could withdraw from my case. People were threatening

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Speaker 1: his life. I guess he called the trial and albatross,

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Speaker 1: and people were dying all because he had died. Some

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Speaker 1: sixteen year old girl in Florida took a handful of

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Speaker 1: pills took her own life. And then a man in

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake City swallowed the barrel of a gun and

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Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. People just couldn't live in a world

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Speaker 1: that didn't include John Lennon. Apparently, fans were flooding Yoko

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Speaker 1: Ono's mailbox with straw letters, so many letters that she

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Speaker 1: had to appear on television simply so that people all

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Speaker 1: over the world wouldn't lose hope. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you'd call this hope, But it was at this time

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Speaker 1: that I got the message, the message from God. I've

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Speaker 1: been waiting to hear from God for so long. He

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Speaker 1: told me to change my plea. I was not insane.

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Speaker 1: I was a nobody who wanted to be as somebody.

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Speaker 1: And if I wanted to be as somebody, I had

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Speaker 1: to plead guilty. I had to show them all who

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Speaker 1: I really was, and so I did. I asked the

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Speaker 1: judge to change my plea. The new attorney they've given

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Speaker 1: me an agree with that choice. He thought I was

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Speaker 1: alone and argued that I wasn't what do you call it.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't of sound mind or whatever they say in court.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't capable of making that decision on my own.

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Speaker 1: But I went out. I convinced the judge did how

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Speaker 1: was that there was no more trial. I was guilty,

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Speaker 1: guilty in the eyes of God and guilty in the

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Speaker 1: eyes of every Beatles fan in the world. Wouldn't my good?

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Speaker 1: And then I wouldn't talk to anyone about anything because

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Speaker 1: I was angry again. I was still angry at John Lennon,

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Speaker 1: and now I was angry at God for putting me

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Speaker 1: in this position. I was angry at my own wife.

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Speaker 1: My wife flew into New York from Hawaii. I refused

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Speaker 1: to see her. She knew this was going to happen,

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Speaker 1: she did nothing about it. I first came to New

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Speaker 1: York in October of I came to kill John Lennon all,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't follow through. I've gone back home to

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Speaker 1: Hawaii and told my wife all about my plan. I

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Speaker 1: showed her my gun. I made her understand what I

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Speaker 1: was capable of She could have prevented the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: could have called the police, could have had me locked up.

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Speaker 1: But she didn't. So when she came to see me,

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Speaker 1: when I changed my plea, I refused to see her.

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Speaker 1: I shaved my head, flew into a rage. I smashed

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Speaker 1: a TV set and then a radio. I tore the

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Speaker 1: pages out of my Bible. The thing was lousy with lies.

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Speaker 1: I thought of holding Caufield, how he flew into a

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Speaker 1: rage when his brother died and broke his hand by

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Speaker 1: punching out windows in the garage. He said his hands

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Speaker 1: still hurt years after. He couldn't even make a fist

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Speaker 1: when it rained. Generation. I stopped in the my outburst,

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Speaker 1: think if anything hurt my hand that had smashed the

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Speaker 1: TV set, or my fingers that had torn so many

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Speaker 1: pages from that book. I wondered if things that hurt

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Speaker 1: now would still hurt years later, Like holding it said,

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Speaker 1: I figured that they probably would. I took the torn

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Speaker 1: pages from the Bible and stuffed them down the toilet

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Speaker 1: in my cell. Tried to flush it all down, the

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Speaker 1: whole crummy thing, but it wouldn't go down, and the

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Speaker 1: water backed up flooded the floor of my cell. A

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Speaker 1: couple of prison guards came in to find out what

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Speaker 1: the hell was going on. So I dipped my hands

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Speaker 1: in the toilet and threw dirty Bible water at them.

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Speaker 1: Like ripped the clothes from my body. I screened out loud.

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Speaker 1: Took six guards to get me under control. Once they

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Speaker 1: had me subdued, they drove me out to Bellevue to

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Speaker 1: the loony bin. This was August, and to think, just

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Speaker 1: nine months before that, on December seven night, I was

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Speaker 1: sitting at the hotel bar at the Sheridan Center Seventh

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Speaker 1: Avenue and fifty Street. I was drinking Heineken. I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: of course, about John Lennon, but I was also thinking

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Speaker 1: about Holden Caufield, about how he had rented a hotel

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Speaker 1: room in New York City just like me. He was

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Speaker 1: dissatisfied with people, just like me. I thought about holding

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Speaker 1: some more, and I wondered if I could step through

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Speaker 1: a door and step into holden shoes, I could be Holden.

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Speaker 1: Because I wanted to be Holden, and I think I

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Speaker 1: was destined to be Holden, to become him, to live

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Speaker 1: out the rest of his life. I decided to start

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Speaker 1: that very night. I called a prostitute up to my room,

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Speaker 1: just like Holden had of my generation. She came upstairs,

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Speaker 1: we sat on the bed and talked. That was all,

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Speaker 1: no sex, Just like Holden. I paid her. She left

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Speaker 1: around three in the morning. I thought about how Holden

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Speaker 1: had to deal with the elevator operator in the book,

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Speaker 1: the guy who got him the prostitute in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Now that guy then tried to extort holding by charging

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Speaker 1: him twice the rate they had agreed upon entering my blood.

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Speaker 1: He insulted Holden, attacked him. Holden wanted revenge, but all

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Speaker 1: he had was fantasy. He fantasized about having a gun,

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Speaker 1: about aiming it at that smarmy elevator operator, making him

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Speaker 1: beg for his life, and then shooting him in the

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Speaker 1: stomach six times. I knew that, unlike Holden, I had

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Speaker 1: more than fantasy at my disposal. I knew that I

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Speaker 1: could step through a door, I could leave myself behind,

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Speaker 1: and I could do all the things that Holden Caulfield

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Speaker 1: had wanted to do but couldn't. I could be somebody,

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Speaker 1: and this is how it happened. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this word word. I was standing around like a

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Speaker 1: real idiot, waiting for him to come back. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be there, but also knew that I had

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Speaker 1: to be there. I wanted to step through that door,

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Speaker 1: I had to remain right where I was outside the Dakota,

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Speaker 1: waiting for John Lennon. It was Dember eighth. I met

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Speaker 1: him for the first time earlier in the day, late afternoon,

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Speaker 1: maybe almost dinnertime. I've been hanging around the Dakota with

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Speaker 1: this guy, Paul Gorrish. People called him Fat Dave, who

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Speaker 1: was a photographer, though I don't know who. He took

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Speaker 1: pictures for. People like Fat Dave hung around outside the Dakota,

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Speaker 1: hoping to get a photo, or a handshake or an autograph.

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Speaker 1: When John emerged from inside, Dale thought I was one

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Speaker 1: of them, another Fat Dave. But I wasn't anything like them.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there to fawn over John Lennon the phony.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there to usher my way into his life.

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Speaker 1: I was there to end his. When at long last

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Speaker 1: John and Yoko came out that afternoon, I almost didn't

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Speaker 1: say anything. I climbed up, my muscles clenched tight. Fat

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Speaker 1: Dave pushed me into John's path, said I came here

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Speaker 1: all the way from Hawaii. This was my chance like

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Speaker 1: I was just like him. I was holding a copy

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Speaker 1: of John and Yoko's Double Fantasy, along with a red

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Speaker 1: paperback copy of The Catcher in the Rye. I asked

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Speaker 1: John to sign the album. He did. He signed the

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Speaker 1: album cover right on Yoko's neck, and then he looked

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Speaker 1: me in the eyes. I've talked about this before, but

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Speaker 1: I feel that it is important to restate. He looked

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Speaker 1: me right in the eyes, and I looked dead into

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Speaker 1: my own eyes and said, is that all? Do you

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Speaker 1: want anything else? It was like he looked into my

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Speaker 1: eyes and knew that I was the person who was

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Speaker 1: going to take his life, that his life would end

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Speaker 1: that day. That night, John and Yoko left in a limousine,

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Speaker 1: and so I waited again. I told myself I would

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Speaker 1: wait until they returned. I killed time talking with the

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Speaker 1: doorman at the Dakota. I found out he was from Cuba,

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Speaker 1: so naturally that made me think of the Bay of Pigs,

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00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 1: and so we talked about Kennedy's assassination. Oh almost man

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Speaker 1: asked me for money, so I gave him ten bucks,

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Speaker 1: and for hours on end, I prayed to God. I

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Speaker 1: prayed to God to help me find a way out.

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00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: God delivered to me another fan who was hanging around

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Speaker 1: the Dakota, a girl named Jude, And if you can

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00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: believe it, I asked her out to dinner that night,

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Speaker 1: thinking that she could be the reason why I didn't

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Speaker 1: go through with it. She could save me. God could

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00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: save me through this woman. But she turned me down.

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Speaker 1: She said no. And here I thought God was going

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Speaker 1: to help, so I prayed to the devil instead. I

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00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: asked the devil to give me strength to help me

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Speaker 1: see through what I knew I had to do. I

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00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 1: told the devil that I had already talked to God

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Speaker 1: and that God did not answer. That God did not care.

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Speaker 1: God didn't care that I was a nobody, But the

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Speaker 1: Devil cared, and the devil wanted me to be somebody.

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Speaker 1: The devil knew who I really was, what I really was.

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Speaker 1: The devil I knew what I was capable of, and

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Speaker 1: the Devil was with me at ten fifty that evening,

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00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: when the limousine returned, do it, the devil said to me.

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Speaker 1: I heard the devil as the rear passenger door of

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00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: the limo opened and Yoko stepped out. John followed shortly behind.

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00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: And I heard the devil again. Do it? Yoko walked

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00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: right past me. I mumbled hellow to her, but she

305
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: didn't respond. John got closer to me, and the voice

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00:22:52,920 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: in my head got louder. Do it. As John by me,

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00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: he didn't look at me. I think he registered that

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Speaker 1: it was me, that I was still there all these

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00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: hours later. Perhaps he thought I was just like the

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Speaker 1: rest of them, some desperate fan. Perhaps you remember the

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Speaker 1: conversation we had earlier in the day when he had

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00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: asked me, do you want anything else? Perhaps he knew

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Speaker 1: that this was the something else, the thing that was

314
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: about to happen, But he just kept walking. If he

315
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: walked right by towards the front gate of the Dakota,

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00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: didn't say a goddamn word. I reached in the pocket

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Speaker 1: of my jacket and felt my shaking hand grab onto

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Speaker 1: the handle of the charter Arms thirty eight. It was

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Speaker 1: a snub nosed pistol, so it was easy to conceal,

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: easy to hold, easy to aim. I didn't know if

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Speaker 1: the bullets would even work. I'd never shot a gun

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Speaker 1: at a person before. My hand wouldn't stop shaking as

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Speaker 1: I pulled the thirty eight out into the coal December Air.

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Speaker 1: Do it? I heard in my head, do it? Do it?

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00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: I aimed right at his back, and I pulled the

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Speaker 1: trigger twice. Both shots hit John in the back. The

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00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: devil got louder. Do it. John turned around and stumbled.

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00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: I thought of Holden's fantasy with the elevator operator. I

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Speaker 1: was the gangster that Holden wanted so desperately to be.

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Speaker 1: I'd play it out for him and was going through.

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00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: I fired three more times. Two of the shots caught

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Speaker 1: him in the shoulder, the third missed. I heard glass

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Speaker 1: shadow on the ash, and then everything went blurry for

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Speaker 1: a few seconds. It was like the film script broke.

335
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I'd made it through the door

336
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 1: or not, but I felt different than I had ever

337
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: felt before. I stood there on the sidewalk. My arm

338
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: was hanging at my side. I was holding on to

339
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: the thirty eight. The doorman, who I had spoken with earlier,

340
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: ran up to me and knocked the gun from my hand.

341
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: Things got clearer. Then I felt the air pinched my face.

342
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: I couldn't see John anywhere, wouldn't leave my head. I

343
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: later learned that he had been able to make his

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00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: way up the stairs towards the Dakota, where he collapsed.

345
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: I waited for more instruction, to hear the voice of

346
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: the devil once more. But the devil was gone, No devil,

347
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: no God. I was alone. I wanted to walk through

348
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: that door. The paragraph and sentences of that book were

349
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: flowing through my brain and entering my blood. I wanted

350
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: to live out the life that Holden Caufield had left behind.

351
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm again to pace. I paced back and forth in

352
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: front of the Dakota. I didn't know what to do

353
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: with myself, so I pulled the paper, a copy of

354
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: The Catcher in the Ride from my back pocket, and

355
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: started to reread True. And as I waited for the

356
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: police to arrive and for the ambulance to arrive, I

357
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: wondered what everyone would think of me now. I wondered

358
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: if they would all look at me and see somebody

359
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: having all will let it run down? Well, we're in

360
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: finally down. You'll let this second stick off to give

361
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: Miamian no offer tunity whatsoever. Donna was called three sockets,

362
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: remitting John Smith. Because I'm alive, I don't care what's

363
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: on the line. Howard, you were about to say, but

364
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: we go in the book. Yes, we have to say it.

365
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: Remember this is just a football game. I'm out of

366
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 1: who win, saw loses? An unspeakable tragedy conferred to us

367
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: by ABC News in New York City. John Lennon outside

368
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: of his apartment building on the West side of New

369
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: York City, the most famous, perhaps of all of the Beatles,

370
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: shot twice in the back, rushed the rose, found hospital

371
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: dead on arrival, caught to go back to the game

372
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: after that news squash, which in duty found we had

373
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: to take right. Indeed it is NYPD. Officers Peter Collin

374
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: and Steve Spear were the first to arrive at the scene,

375
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: the Dakota seventy Street in Central Park West, December eighth night.

376
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: There have been reports of loud noises, five bangs in

377
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: quick succession, gunshots. Maybe Colin and Spiro thought the more

378
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: likely explanation was fireworks. It was the Chinese New Year,

379
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: and even at eleven o'clock at night in the city

380
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: that never slept, someone was always out celebrating something. But

381
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: there was no celebration at the Dakota, no fireworks. When

382
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: Colin and Spiro pulled up in their police cruiser, they

383
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: unknowingly walked into an unforgettable tragedy. The Dakota, it's late

384
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: nineteenth century goth expires, turrets and gargoyles cast in erie.

385
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: Paul Colin and Spiro could feel the building's hulking gray

386
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: frame looking down on them, and on the small but

387
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: gathering crowd, and on two men in particular, one standing

388
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: still on the sidewalk in an overcoat, his hands raised

389
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: over his head, a red paperback clenched between his fingers,

390
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: the other on the floor of the Dakota's vestibule, bleeding

391
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: from his mouth and chest. Colin was surprised to find

392
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: that the man still had a pulse. He was even

393
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: more surprised, as he searched for a face behind the

394
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: bloodstained eyeglasses, that he realized exactly who the man was,

395
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: New York's most famous resident, one of America's best loved

396
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: adopted sons. Colin couldn't believe it. John Lennon was dying

397
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: right there fast. Meanwhile, Spiro tended to the man in

398
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: the overcoat with the red paperback above his head. The

399
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: Dakota's doorman, Jose Perdomo, made the man mark David Chapman

400
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: as the one who fired the fatal shots. Spirow pushed

401
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: Chapman up against the wall of the Dakota, read him

402
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: his rights, cuffed him. John Lennon was bleeding out in

403
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: front of Colin's eyes. Colin radio dispatch for an ambulance.

404
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: Ten that's out. They didn't have ten minutes. John would

405
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: be dead in ten minutes. More officers arrived from the

406
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 1: scene in another squad car, and Colin helped carry John's

407
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: body to the car's back seat. John was barely conscious.

408
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: The officers asked him some basic questions, and he silently

409
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: nodded his head in response. Colin told the officers to

410
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: take John to Roosevelt Hospital, thirteen blocks away. Radio it in,

411
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: he said, but don't say that you have John Lennon

412
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: in the back seat. The place will be a zoo

413
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: by the time you get there. Minutes later, at Roosevelt,

414
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: Dr David haller At, a twenty nine year old general

415
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: surgeon in his third year, held John Lennon's heart in

416
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: his hands. The team of doctors and nurses had rushed

417
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: John from the back of the squad car, cut away

418
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: John's fur lined leather jacket, his shirt, his jeans. John

419
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: had lost so much blood that his pulse had faded,

420
00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: so Dr Hallarin opened John's chest and he prefer warm

421
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: cardiac massage, hands directly on John Lennon's heart. Hallarin continued

422
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: to perform cardiac massage for forty five minutes, and John

423
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: Lennon was declared dead that night. Back at the Dakota,

424
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: officers Cullen and Spireau got Mark David Chapman into the

425
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: back of their police cruiser and headed towards the station.

426
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: Colin tried to keep his anger at bay. He clenched

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Speaker 1: his fists, he shook his head. He wanted to throw

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Speaker 1: Chapman on the fucking window and into oncoming traffic. He

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00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: attempted to refrain from saying something he would regret, but

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00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: he just couldn't hold back. Are you fucking crazy? Colin

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00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: shouted back and Chapman from the front seat, he just

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00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: threw your whole life away. Chapman looked at Colin through

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00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: the rear view mirror. He blinked his eyes and responded calmly.

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Speaker 1: There was a little person and a big person inside

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00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: of me, and tonight the little person one. Colin didn't

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00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: know what the funk Chapman was going on about, or

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00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: what was going on in his head. Colin just wanted

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00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: to book the asshole and get him out of his

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00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: face before he did something he really couldn't come back from.

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00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: At the police station, other officers followed Collin's lead. They

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00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: couldn't believe what had happened. I couldn't understand, and their anger,

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00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: their frustration, it all bubbled up and then burst through

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00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: the surface and words that couldn't do their disbelief justice.

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Speaker 1: You know what you just did? Do you know who

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00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: you just shot? Chapman blinked some more. His eyes started

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00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: from one officer to another. He tried to play back

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00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: what had happened in his mind, but the film strip

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00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: was still broken. He couldn't go back, He could only

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00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: go forward. I am John Lennon, Chapman answered, and I

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00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: killed myself. Of course, Mark David Chapman was not John Lennon,

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00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: far from it. Mark David Chapman would never be on

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00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: on it. He would never be that brave, never be

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00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: that smart or that magnetic. He would never be that talented,

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00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: and he would never capture the world with his songs

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00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: or inspire a generation with his vision. Mark David Chapman

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00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: only inspired contempt and disgusted from his fellow man as

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00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: he sat alone at the police station, waiting, waiting in

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00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: vain for a door to open that would never open,

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00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: waiting for a transfiguration that was clearly as fantastical as

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00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: the sentences and paragraphs and a work of fiction. Mark

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00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: David Chapman was not John Lennon. He did not become

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00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: Holden Caufield. He remained unchanged. But the rest of the

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00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: world would never be the same again. Where once there

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00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: was hope, now there was despair. And where once there

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00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: was beautiful music, now there was just Blood on the Tracks.

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00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, Thanks for listening to Blood on the Tracks.

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00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: If you like what you hear, be sure to find

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00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: and follow Blood on the Tracks on Apple podcast, I

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00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: On this season two of Blood on the Tracks, we'll

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00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: be releasing ten episodes on the incredible life of John Lennon,

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00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: with a new episode every Thursday. You can also binge

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00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: all ten episodes of season one on the insane story

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00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: of the notorious record producer Phil Spector right now. It's

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00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: available wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Blood

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00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: on the Tracks was written by Zeth Lundie and hosted

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00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: an executive produced by me Jake Brennan, also executive produced

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00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: by Brady sad Story and copy editing by Pat Healy.

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00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Colin Fleming. Additional music and

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00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: score elements by Ryan Spreaker. This episode featured Alan Adams

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00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: as Mark David Chapman. Blood on the Track Acts is

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00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: produced by Double Elvis and partnership with I Heart Radio.

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00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 1: Sources for this episode are available at Double Elvis dot

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00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: com on the Blood on the Tracks series page. If

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00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: you want to chat about this show or hear more

486
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: about the other shows, we're making a Double Elvis tap

487
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: in on Instagram at double Elvis, on Twitter at Double

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00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: Elvis FM, and now on Twitch, where we're streaming three

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00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: days a week at Twitch dot tv slash Double Elvis podcast.

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00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: And finally, be sure to check out disgrace Land, the

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00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: award winning music and true crime podcast that I also host.

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00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: Disgraceland is available only on the free Amazon Music. To

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00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: hear tons of insane stories about your favorite musicians getting

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00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: away with murder and behaving very badly, go to Amazon

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00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: dot com slash disgrace lamb, or if you have an

496
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: Echo device, just say Alexa play the disgrace Land podcast

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00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: Rock Alone, Dad,