WEBVTT - Global Politics and the Web 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:17.720 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello there, everyone, 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.680 and welcome again to tech stuff. My name is Chris Philette, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.720 and I am the tech editor here at how stuff 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.440 works dot com. And as he often does on these occasions, 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.040 sitting across from me is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Major though. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.839 Right then, so uh let's talk politics, yeah, you know, 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.400 because that's what we normally talk about. Tech stuff is 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.480 all about the politics. And we're not talking PC versus 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:44.600 MAC people. Um, although we could talk PC versus Mack people. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:46.800 I mean, I don't have any research on it, but 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.040 I like John Hodgman frankly that that's sort of a 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.440 political topic to right, we're really looking at all. Right, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.480 So the web is a global entity, Okay, so we're 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.520 talking about the you know, the web is all over 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.440 the world, and there are web companies that have a 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.399 presence now all over the world. You might the web 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.119 is really made it a lot easier to become a 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:15.480 multi national global organization. Uh, you know, back in the 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.120 the good old days of the eighties. Um, you pretty 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.040 much had to be a mega corporation to have any 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.560 sort of presence outside of your country of origin. You 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.120 might have a few sites in and uh, you know, 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.720 another country, but um, it was only a few companies 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.080 that really had a global presence. Well, now with the Web, 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.319 everyone kind of has a global presence, whether they like 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.160 it or not. Right, and some of these companies don't 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.960 like it. We'll get to that. But part of the uh, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:45.679 the flip side of the coin of having a global 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.840 presence is having to deal with global politics. And uh, 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.640 not every country treats the web the same way that 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.160 we in the West do. No, I say we because 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.040 you know I live in the United States. That's really 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.000 where my frame of reference is. The way the United 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.480 States handles the Internet and the Web. Actually not even 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:10.960 all Western nations, that's true. That's true. So so companies 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:16.160 that have a presence in various countries, especially any anyone 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.720 that is trying to generate revenue in these countries. Uh, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.320 they may find that they have to operate under a 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.200 different set of parameters and they had originally intended and 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.840 in some cases this comes into direct conflict with the 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.000 company's philosophy. And um, I wasn't sure about all the 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:34.760 different things you wanted to talk about, but I think 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.640 the bulk of this conversation would really center around Google 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.360 and China because it's a great example of how a 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.839 a multi national company can have some problems within one 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.440 single country and what could lead to it deciding to 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.440 no longer do business there. Now, just there's a bit 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.640 of clarification, especially for those of you who are catching 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.639 up on our podcast now. A lot of you like to, 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.960 you know, when you first tune in, go back and 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.800 listen to earlier episodes. So as we are recording this, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:10.640 we're actually in the throes of conversation about what has 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.240 happened over the past few days in our time UM 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.959 with an attack on Google's servers. Apparently it just came 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.200 out today the day we are recording this, that the 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:26.480 attack came from a computer in Taiwan, UM and what 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:31.880 happened was, UH, emails containing PDF attachments went out to people, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.120 UH from many different organizations. Uh. They are apparently about 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:41.840 thirty three different companies, including Google, where people individuals received 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:46.240 emails with these PDF attachments. Well, the PDFs were exploiting 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:52.040 a zero day vulnerability, which means unpatched. Basically, UH hole 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.680 in the back of the UH Adobe Acrobat reader code. 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.280 And what that allowed UH the attackers to do was 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:06.600 essentially reroute traffic from the affected computers with they trojan 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.400 what they call a trojan horse. It appears as one 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:12.000 thing in this case of PDF, but contains malware. UM 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.480 and UH they were able to take UM intellectual property 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.560 from in this case what we're talking about mainly Google 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:27.200 and the Gmail servers. Now, um it it affected a 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.479 lot of people obviously, UM. But Google has been the 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.840 most outspoken as of this date, UM and said, look, 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.599 as a result of this, we are not going to 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.120 comply with the censorship requirements that the Chinese government has 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.640 put on us, which is causing a great bruhaha in 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.320 countries all over the world right now. To give a 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.800 little more perspective, China does have some pretty strict restrictions 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.880 on what the citizens of China can and cannot access. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.719 That may be the biggest understatement you've spoke in this year. Yeah, alright, 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.200 So China likes to keep a very firm grip on 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.960 what the Chinese citizens are China. When I say China, mainly, 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.840 I'm talking about this shorthand for Chinese government. So the 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.240 Chinese government likes to keep a tight grip on what 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.000 the citizens can access, uh so much so that there 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:23.680 is a a h the Great Firewall of China. It's 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.520 something that we all refer to outside of China. Um 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.520 the Great Firewall of China is this this firewall that 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:35.320 blocks incoming data that the Chinese government doesn't want citizens 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:40.240 to access. This ranges from everything from pornography too, anything 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:44.800 that criticizes the politics and policies of the Chinese government, 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.200 including things like its position on tibet Um. There are 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.200 things are just considered taboo within Chinese culture that stuff 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.839 is blocked. And then there's the stuff that the government 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.119 just doesn't want citizens to have access to that gets blocked. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:03.360 To Yes, that information like Tienamen Square. That's a huge one, 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.479 and so go ahead. I wanted to point out, though, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.479 just as a as a point of clarification, that the 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.880 person who wrote this actually came out on Google's blog. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.360 It was written by David Drummond, who is the senior 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.320 vice president and of Corporate Development and the chief Legal 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.560 officer of Google, and he pointed out, we don't know 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:24.480 whether or not the Chinese government is actually involved with this. 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.240 There's no way to tell for sure who is who 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.400 was the attacker in this case. Yeah, but if you 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.680 read between the lines, it is essentially saying that we 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.000 can't be certain, but we're you know, I would say that, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.599 I would say that the reasonable interpretation of reading any 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:45.160 of the reports suggests that ultimately the Chinese government had 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.160 something to do with these attacks. Put it this way, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.840 we haven't mentioned I just realized we haven't mentioned one 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.839 of the things that might lead them to believe that 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.920 what the information was. Yes, the information actually the the hackers, Um, 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:04.440 we're targeting accounts of Chinese non Chinese dissidence. Yeah, people 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.440 who were advocating for human rights within China. That was 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.560 it was their information, and as far as we can tell, 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.560 it wasn't like their emails or their documents or anything. 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.080 It was more just who they were and you know, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.360 where they were really well, and which is bad enough. 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:24.480 So it could honestly could have been somebody who wanted 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:26.960 to make it appear as that the Chinese government was 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.560 behind it, but also could have been the Chinese government. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.200 What motive would would anyone have to frame the Chinese government? 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.720 Why would they need that information. I mean, it doesn't 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:41.400 make sense. I think it was it. He's notorious like that. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.080 I'n't going to take a little moment here and think 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:47.600 about pie Um. So I wanted to mention here about 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:52.440 the the whole Google China event. Google going into China 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.160 in the first place was kind of a sticky situation. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.720 The reason being is that Google has an informal motto 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.840 that says, don't be evil, all right, and they define 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.120 that motto within their investor relations page as meaning a 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.640 couple of different things. One of the things they mean 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.160 is that they want to provide their customers with unbiased information. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.120 So when you put in a search result in Google, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.120 you should get unbiased search results, right, you shouldn't. You 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.880 shouldn't be getting uh you know, these are the ones 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.480 that Google thinks are best or they have a deal 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.080 with this company, and so their search results are going 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.000 to come back to you, and other search results from 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.360 competing companies won't come back to you. That is against 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.599 Google's policy. So you should whenever you put in a 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.360 search query, you should get unbiased information and return. Their 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.720 second tenant and don't be evil, is to operate within 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:48.000 the boundaries of the law. So Google can't do something 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.560 that's illegal. Even if they think that this is quote 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.040 unquote right, Um, they wouldn't do it because it's against 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.280 the law. Instead, they would lobby to have the law change. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.160 They would work, you know, in a in a legal 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:03.440 manner to have the whatever it was removed so that 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.360 they could operate the way they wanted to. David Drummond 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.040 has actually made that clear that as of again as 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.520 of the date we're recording, is Google wants to work 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.480 with the Chinese government to find a way that it 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.520 can deliver search results in China without censoring the material. 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.840 And yeah, right, Well that was the point, was that 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.760 back when Google first got into China, those two tenants 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.000 of don't be Evil were at odds with each other 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.240 because they could not provide unbiased information to customers in 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.800 China and operate within the parameters the law. The two 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.560 things were at odds. There was no way you could 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.000 do both at the same time. You could either do 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.320 it illegally where you're providing uncensored search results, which would 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.679 just mean that the Chinese would eventually filter out your 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.240 site and no one would have access to it anyway, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:50.720 or you would have to play ball with the Chinese 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:55.000 government and filter your search results to remove any links 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.160 to things that the Chinese government deemed inappropriate for the 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.920 citizens to see. So the was no way that they 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.840 could follow their own motto by going into business in China. 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:07.280 But at the same time, they said, you know, we 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.160 think that being able to provide some information is better 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.880 than not being able to provide any information. So we're 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.360 willing to take a chance and operate within China, see 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.480 what happens, and if the situation goes for the worst, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.520 then we will reevaluate our position within China. And that's 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.280 kind of what seems to have happened over this past week. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.800 And uh, it should be pointed out too that China 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.080 is not exactly a small market for Internet users. So 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.480 there are at one report I saw states that there 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.199 are around three d fifty million people who use the 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.679 web on a regular basis in China, and that number 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.079 is growing, and that's actually getting to the point where 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.079 it's it's eclipsing the United States. No small market, so 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.400 it's it's going to be hard for people like Microsoft 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.839 and Yahoo just to walk away and ignore them. Now, 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.240 on the flip side of that coin, you could argue 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.320 that Google itself is not a big player within the 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.800 search engine space in China, which is true now in 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.600 the United States, Google has the majority of the market 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.640 share in search. I mean it's like sixty something percent. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.000 It's crazy amount of considering how many companies are out 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.280 there that provide search. In China, it is I think 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.400 in third or fourth place. Uh there's a Chinese government. Uh, well, 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.960 it's an organization that is friendly with the Chinese government. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.240 I'm not sure that is state sponsored, right, Okay, but 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:32.319 there's Yeah, there's a search engine that within China cooperative, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:34.920 its cooperative with the government. That is then the number 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.920 one space. Right, So bay Do is number one in China. 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.199 Google is is trailing behind bay Do, but is catching up. 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.120 It is made up some ground. However, some people have 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.439 pointed out that since Google isn't the number one, they 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.080 don't have the same kind of stock in China that 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.280 they would in other countries. It's easier for them to 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.120 pull up stakes and leave because they're not abandoning a 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.760 huge market the way they were they would be if 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.480 they were in the United States. So the question is 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.199 if Google were the number one search engine in China 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.199 and this had happened. Would Google still make the same 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.840 move of saying, you know what, you have violated our trust. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.160 We weren't really sure about this or this situation in 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.040 the first place when we came in here, we're gonna leave. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:20.720 Would they be able to do that if they were 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.640 number one, would they be able to to to say 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.319 goodbye to all that money? Part of that question is 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.240 hard to answer, just because Google has to answer to 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.800 shareholders and shareholders as a whole. I don't mean to 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.880 paint all shareholders with the same brush, because I know 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.599 it's not the case. But there's there's kind of a 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.480 general rule of thumb, which is that shareholders are willing 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.160 to put up with a lot if it means that 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.839 they're going to get a return on their investment. And 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.280 that may even mean, say, you know what, I understand 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.400 that this violates principles that you hold dear, But at 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.719 the same time, we're making lots of money. So as 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.600 long as we're able to make that money, we will, 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.680 you know, just kind of look the other way on 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.760 the whole human its issues and censorship issues. Um, I 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.640 don't know if Google would have been able to walk 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.400 away and Google, let me be clear, at the time 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.640 we're recording this, Google hasn't walked away yet. Um, but 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.400 they have said that they are willing to pull up 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:15.960 stakes and leave the country if they are not able 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.080 to come to some sort of agreement with the Chinese government, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.480 and the Chinese government, for its part, so far, as said, 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.559 we're not in the wrong here. We have these rules. Google. 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.080 You either obey these rules or you don't work within 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.800 our country. So it's kind of a standoff right now. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.120 We have to see whether or not Google is going 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.840 to make good on its threat to to leave. Uh. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.760 I'm very curious to see how this affects the landscape 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.680 in China if Google were to leave, and actually the 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.400 global landscape really when you think about it. There was 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.199 an article in the New York Times too that it's 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.280 very very curious because the Chinese people are aware that 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.600 something is going on with Google, but they are unaware 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:56.520 that it revolves around any arguments surrounding free speech. Um. Well, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.880 that's what happens when your speech is controlled, right. Uh. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:06.160 But there has been um an outpouring of sympathy for Google. 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.520 People have been coming to the headquarters in Beijing and 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:16.840 leaving flowers and candles and other mementos. Uh. So you know, 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.760 just all kinds of people have been dropping by, which 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:25.040 is not something that I would necessarily expect to see. Uh. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.920 For the third or fourth place, um, uh, you know 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.000 search engine in China, I have the feeling that some 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.360 people may know more than they may be letting on. Well, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.200 it is known that there are plenty of people in 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.000 China who are using various services to get around the 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:46.480 firewall and are accessing information that is verboten in uh 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.920 in China. Um, there are plenty of people who are 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.600 using proxy servers and things like that in order to 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.040 get access to more information than they otherwise would be 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.000 allowed to to see. So some of that might be 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.200 coming into play. Um. Yeah, it's kind of hard to 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.960 say without without being there and knowing the whole situation, 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.400 Like we can't, for instance, we don't know if Google's 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.760 motives are really pure. We don't know if Google has 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.080 been looking for a while to get out of China 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.000 and this latest incident is kind of acting as a 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.840 springboard so that they can. Yeah, it's like an unforeseen 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.560 exit strategy, like, oh yeah, let's take it. Take this 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.920 opportunity to get the heck out of dodge. UM, we 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:28.160 don't know if if other companies are going to follow suit. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.200 I mean, one thing about Google leaving China is right now, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.480 it's like the best move they can make because they 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.000 are not number one, They're not They're not gonna lose 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.840 a huge amount of revenue by getting out of China 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.120 right now, but they are going to get a huge 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.240 PR boost by saying, look, we're gonna do what's right 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.160 because we either want to provide uncensored search results or 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.320 we don't want to work there at all. That's like 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.000 a really nice high moral ground to that you can 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.240 you can cling to and UH, whether or not it's genuine, 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.400 it's kind of beside the point. It's a huge PR 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.280 win for Google. So it puts pressure on other American 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.480 companies UH and other international companies companies like Yahoo and 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.160 Microsoft that's still operate within China and are still operating 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:15.040 under China's rules. UM saying like, well, now these companies 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.800 have to ask the question do we stay in China? 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.640 UH playing but playing the playing ball with the Chinese 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.520 government continuing to obey the rules of censorship and UH 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.280 and and accept the fact that that's going to be 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.440 awful PR back in the rest of the world. But 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.800 we'll do it, you know, We'll make that sacrifice because 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.960 there's all that money over there. Or are they going 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.280 to say, you know what, we're gonna pull up stakes 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.640 too because the heat is too high, or maybe even 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.640 they genuinely feel that the business they're doing in China 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.480 is ultimately more harm than good. Uh. You know, I 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.160 don't want to paint all of these these executives as 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.240 being these cold hearted, calculating money grubbing kind of jerks. UM. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.040 I don't know any of them personally. Some of them 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:03.119 may feel legitimately conflict did about doing business in China, UM, 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.240 And maybe they are taking the time to really re 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.600 evaluate their positions as well. I honestly don't know. UM. 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.520 I operate under assumptions and stereotypes the way everyone else does, 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.359 so I think of them as cold, calculating money grubbing jerks. 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.360 But I'm I hope I'm wrong. It would be great 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:25.200 if I were wrong. I don't Here's the real problem. Ultimately, 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.080 I don't know even if they were to all pull 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.520 up stakes and leave, I don't know that that would 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.000 put any leverage on the Chinese government whatsoever to make 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.760 any kind of changes it is. It is conceivable that 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.159 their their argument that by doing work in China, they 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.679 can gradually change the mind of the government to allow 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.000 more free speech and allow more flexibility. And we've seen 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.600 some evidence of that over the last few years. I 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.240 mean that it's not like China hasn't allowed any kind 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.120 of outside access, but they have been very very cautious 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.720 of it. And some of that is cultural, where it's 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.800 just that they want to protect the Chinese culture, and 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.359 some of it is very political. Um. And so it'll 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.439 be yeah. I mean, I think if even if all 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.480 the American companies that have anything to do with intellectual 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.120 property pulled out of China right now, I'm not sure 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:22.680 that China would really care that much. Yet. Um, in 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.399 some ways, China would Chinese government would want to react 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.840 because it's all about saving face in the global environment. 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.000 So but even in that case, it's more about saving face, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:40.119 it's not about necessarily doing what's right. So yeah, we 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:46.320 know another situation, another political situation that involves technology that 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:53.040 that revolves around protecting corporate interests was net neutrality. UM. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.760 And I was reading just just today that that Skype 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.840 has weighed in there there's still no decision on official 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.320 decision on net new reality. But Skype actually filed a 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.720 brief with the FCC not too long ago, actually in 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:09.560 January fourteenth, two thousand town UM basically saying sort of 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.000 coming down somewhere in the middle, saying it would net 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:18.320 neutrality would promote investment, jobs, and innovation. It's a quote, UM. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.040 But Skype also sees the need to protect UH network 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:27.720 infrastructure and for UH companies UH Internet service providers to 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:33.160 throttle bandwidth, block programs if necessary, or degrade performance UM 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.239 in order to preserve the network and integrity and make 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.040 sure that they're able to provide equitable service. Of course, 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.600 they're also quick to point out that their application has 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.119 been optimized to you know, make as minimal and impact 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.720 on the network as possible, right, because it's all peer 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.520 to peer, right, so uh, you know, it's it's all 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.640 sort of relative. But that that battle has been hot 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.560 and heated between the people who say I don't want 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.280 I want to be able to act says everything equally 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.800 UM here in the United States on my Internet service provider, 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.360 I don't care, I don't want it censored, I don't 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:08.960 want it throttled. I don't want it blocked. I don't 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:12.000 want it. You know, you don't taper it off. I 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.639 don't wannferential treatment for one versus the other. Meanwhile, some 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.679 of the Internet service providers are saying, look, you know, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.160 if we can make a deal with a content provider, um, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.600 you know, to help provide better service for our customers 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:26.920 as a whole, we're willing to give them a little 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.520 bit extra bandwidth, you know, or we're gonna throttle your 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.760 slit torrent connection because you know, you are one of 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.760 the point zero five percent who uses most of our 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.480 bandwidth because you download movies all the time. You maybe 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.399 BitTorrent is not just used to download movies. No, it 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.720 can be used to download anything but people. I was 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.840 just making an example, but you're right, No bittorring could 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.879 be used to download anything. Legal problem is that there 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.240 are a lot of people who do use it for 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:03.560 illegal purposes, and so that's bad for that. And you 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.520 know what, I'm sure if I looked at the full 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.920 list of all people who use bit torrent, it would 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.280 probably be a sizeable percentage that uses it for illegal 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:15.760 purposes at least occasionally, if not regularly. Um, it's a 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.159 very effective method for delivering files, whether they're legal or 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.600 But yeah, if you were to just automatically throttle all 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.760 bit torrent activities exactly, that would faally hurt people who 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.080 are using it for legitimate means to distribute very large files. 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.600 I mean, if you're using it for work purposes in 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.760 your house and you needed to share files with other 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.040 people in your office, Um, you know, in your your 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.040 bandwidth is being throttled by somebody else who uses even 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.400 more bandwidth than you, and you're being lumped in with them. 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:46.639 You know you're gonna be a little outraged by that. 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.199 So we're seeing a lot of web companies weigh in 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.480 on this discussion. So this is another good, good example 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.800 of web companies in politics. I mean, Google has been 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.880 extremely vocal in the whole net neutrality argument and uh 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.280 then of course we've also seen I s p s 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.560 and UH like cell phone carriers in particular argue the 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.040 opposite side, saying things like, hey, we just want to 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:09.120 be able to give the best service and get lots 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:13.080 of money in charge twice for the same content delivery system. Again, 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.640 they are also trying vast they're also trying to provide 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:21.600 value to their stockholders and stockholders are, as we have 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.600 determined already the most evil people on the planet, Thank 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.600 you very much. I own stock By the way, I 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.000 also have plans for a death star. That's a good point. Yeah, 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.879 I'm just saying no, no, no, no, I don't really 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:39.000 mean that. I don't really mean that stockholder is necessarily evil. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:45.760