1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little girl borrows her 2 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: brother's bike to go just a few blocks. She's never 3 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: seen alive again, her body found soon after, and then 4 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: somehow the case goes cold until now. Crime Stories with 5 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. In July of nineteen seventy two, forty nine 6 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: years ago, a young girl by the name of Julie Hansen, 7 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: age fifteen, whirled her brother's bike to go to a 8 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: baseball game. Julie never returned home. She was reported missing 9 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: to the Naperville Police Department, and the department of the 10 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: following day put together an exhaustive search for Julie along 11 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: with members of the community. The bike was discovered on 12 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: a gravel road off eighty seven Street and knocknel Robe. 13 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: That was the following day after Julie was reported missing. 14 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Can you imagine the parents when they hear the bike 15 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: has been found, but no Julie. With me an all 16 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: start panel to make sense of what happened to Julie Anne. 17 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: First of all, Robert Crispin, former fed with the DA 18 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area cop, now head of 19 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: Crispin Special Investigations at Crispin Investigates dot Com. Renowned psychologist 20 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan. Karen's Dark at Karen Stark 21 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Ashley Wilcot judge, trial lawyer, anchor Court TV 22 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: at Ashley Wilcot dot com. Andrew Singer is joining us 23 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: from BODI Technologies, the largest private forensic DNA laboratory in 24 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: the US, and you can find him at bodtech dot com. Bode. 25 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Tim Gallagher esteemed to Medical Examiner for the entire 26 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: state of Florida at pathcaremed dot com, Senior Lecturer University 27 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: Florida Medical School in the Forensic Medicine Division, and founder 28 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. 29 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: But first of all, to Lisa farvar Field, editor with 30 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Patch Media Atpatch dot com, joining us out of Chicago. Lisa, 31 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the day Julianne Hanson 32 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: goes missing. What happened. Julianne Hanson was fifteen years old 33 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: when she borrowed her brother's bike to go to a 34 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: baseball game. And you know, she's fifteen and she borrows 35 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 1: her younger twelve year old brothers bike to go to 36 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: the baseball game, and she never returned. I know that, 37 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: first of all, she was reported missing. The bike was 38 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: then found. But when was she reported missing? She was 39 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: reported missing on July eighth, nineteen seventy two. She's reported 40 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: missing and then parents are crushed when they get the news, Oh, 41 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: we found her bike. Where was the bicycle found? Lisa? 42 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: The bike was found on a gravel road, now far 43 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: from where the family lived. So the bike was found 44 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: at eighty seven Street in Knocknold's Road in Naperville. What 45 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: can you tell me about Napierville, Illinois. Naperville is a suburb. 46 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: It's about roughly an hour or so outside of Chicago, 47 00:03:53,720 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: and it's generally pretty well ranked for its family friendly atmosphere, 48 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: for its good schools um and it's it's a place 49 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: where generally not a lot of the series of violent 50 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: crimes are reported. It's there have been, i'd say, over 51 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: the past, you know, since since Hanson the South, there 52 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: have been you know, just I want to say maybe 53 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: a fewer than a handful of uh, you know, serious 54 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: kinds of that nature reported and they prevailed. What I 55 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: know is that it was once a frontier post when 56 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: the wild West was being settled, and you get that 57 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: far and Napierville was started as an outpost. It's over 58 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: an hour from Chicago, very very low crime rate, and 59 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: to this day the population is just a little bit 60 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand for the whole area. It's a 61 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: safer alternative if you have to go in and work 62 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: in Chicago, which is crime ridden. This is a spot 63 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: where you want to raise your family. This is a 64 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: spot that's safe, full tree lined neighborhoods, working parents, both 65 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: parents typically working in that area, Lovely homes, lots of 66 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: good schools. Not a place where you think your girl 67 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: is going to be snatched off a bike. And then 68 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: twenty four hours later you find the bike abandoned on 69 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: a gravel road and after you Lisa Farber, was the 70 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: bike crumpled, had it been in a crash or was 71 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: it just abandoned on the side of the road. Do 72 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: we know? From what I from what information I have 73 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: from police, there was no indication that the bike showed 74 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: any like extensive damage or anything like that. The bike 75 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: was just found, from my understanding, abandoned on the side 76 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: of the road. Oh gosh, Ashley Willcott say if the 77 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: bike had been crumpled up, and that would give way 78 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: to a whole different avenue of investigation. You know what 79 00:05:53,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: it reminds me of. It reminds me the missing mom, Suzanne, 80 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: who reportedly went for a bike ride on Mother's Day 81 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: and all that was left was the bike, and then 82 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: speculation goes on about what may have happened. I think 83 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: the whole scene was staged. But Suzanne Morphu still has 84 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: not been found. All that's found is the bike and 85 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: it shows no sign that we know of of injury 86 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: to the bike. So that leads you down a certain 87 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: path of investigation, Ashley, Oh, it absolutely does. First, when 88 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: you talked about the parents, if I saw God forbid 89 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: the bike and no child, I immediately and my gut 90 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: would know something's wrong, something has happened. But that is 91 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: the crime scene. That is where law enforcement must start 92 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: looking first to determine what's around the bike. Is there 93 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: any type of wrapping from a piece of candy or 94 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: anything that's been dropped. Is there any sign of a struggle, 95 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: What's in the dirt, what's in the grass. Does it 96 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: looked like there were four footprints or just the two 97 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: footprints of this beautiful little girl. That's the crime scene, Nancy, 98 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: That's where you start so upsetting for the parents, living 99 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: through this, what more do we know? Take a listen 100 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. Fifteen year old Julie 101 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: Hanson had typical small town plans for her weekend. Her 102 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: parents were away, her brother and sister were home, and 103 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: there was a baseball game that meant friends and boys. 104 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: Hanson borrowed her brother's bicycle to go to the game, 105 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: and she was seen leaving the home on the bike. 106 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: She never made it. Her older sister reported her missing 107 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: the next day. And of course it's perfectly natural for 108 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old teen girl to want to go 109 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: see a boys baseball game, and that leads to a 110 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: whole another avenue of investigation, because you wonder what the 111 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: parents gone that night. Was she planning to sneak off 112 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: with a boy or a friend from school? So you 113 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: got to run down that path as well. Robert Crispin, Absolutely, 114 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: you're looking at all her friends. You're looking at her 115 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: relationships with people in school, friends, she may be doing 116 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: summer jobs with. You're looking at everybody associated with her 117 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: in the beginning, starting to move forward, and oh the guilt, 118 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: Karen start of the parents they go away for one 119 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: night and their daughter goes missing. Well, I mean Danswy 120 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: You have twins. Just think about what that's like for 121 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: the parents. They would never have suspected that going away 122 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: for this one night would lead to these kind of consequences. 123 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: It's awful. Take a listen to more from our friends 124 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: at crime Online. The police, along with members of the community, 125 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: launched an exhaustive search for the missing fifteen year old. 126 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: The bike was found in a ditch on a gravel 127 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: road in a cornfield just one hundred feet away. Julie 128 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: Hanson's body was discovered later that day. The team had 129 00:08:53,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: been sexually assaulted and stabbed thirty six times Crime Stories 130 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. You know, I want to go to 131 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: not only doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the 132 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: entire state of Florida, but to Lisa Farvor with Patch 133 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: Media atpatch dot com. Lisa, tell me about this location 134 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: where her body was found. Did I hear a cornfield? Yeah, 135 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: that's that's correct. From our understanding, her body was actually 136 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: located in a well. I believe a cornfield near by 137 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: where the bike was found. You know there's something about 138 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: that to renowned psychologist Karen Start joining us out of 139 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: Manhattan today. It brings to mind the case of Molly Tibbets, 140 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: who was kidnapped, I believe, raped and then hidden in 141 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: a way in a corner field. And when you think 142 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: about it now, Karen, I know you're in New York, 143 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: in New York City, but for those of you that 144 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a rural area like I did, 145 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of a cornfield, you can't 146 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: see anything. The corn stalks are this close together, a 147 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: foot apart, maybe two for you to walk down between them. 148 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: You can't see through them. Someone takes this girl, this 149 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: beautiful girl, out into a cornfield and rapes and murders 150 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: are stabbing. We know at least thirty six times, delieving 151 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: the body the rape in a cornfield, Karen Stark. Somehow 152 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: being in that environment makes it even worse. She couldn't 153 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: tell where she was, she didn't know which way to run. Horrible, 154 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: and it adds another layer into the psychopathy of the killer. 155 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: And I think that we can all picture it, Nancy, 156 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: the juxtaposition of that cornfield with the fact that this 157 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: is a young girl who's being raped and murdered, and 158 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: how awful, just awful it must have been for her 159 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: to be so disoriented and frightened and lost, and it 160 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: just says that this is not just somebody who was 161 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: after killing someone was bad enough, but that he enjoyed 162 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: the fact that it was this innocence of the Cornfield 163 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: and this young girl, and that she was terrified. Doctor 164 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher a medical zammer for the state of Florida, 165 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,119 Speaker 1: and you can find him at pathcaremad dot com. Doctor Gallagher. 166 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: I learned this but early on. But a good example 167 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: that people could relate to would be the case of 168 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: Travis Alexander who was stabbed we think about twenty nine 169 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: times by Jodi Aris before she shot him dead, shot 170 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: him in the hip. The medical examer actually couldn't really 171 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: make out the number of stab wounds because there were 172 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: so many that some of them overlapped on each other. 173 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: So you can tell if one stab wound could be 174 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: two or three stab wounds because the stabbing was on 175 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: top the other stab wounds. Could you explain that better 176 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: than I am? Well, I'll give it a try to 177 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: and see. It's true that when you have multiple stab wounds, 178 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: some of them do overlap. And not only would they overlap, 179 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: you know when we think about a stab, when we 180 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: think about a knife, going in and out, you know, 181 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: in the same wound and out of the same wound, 182 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: you know. But sometimes we can have a case where 183 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: they drag the knife through the body, almost slicing through 184 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: the body. And if you have a slicing wound that 185 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: goes through four or five other wounds. You know, it's 186 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: very difficult to count the exact number of times of 187 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: person's been stabbed. You know. The wounds generally congregate around 188 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: vital organs of the body, so there may be multiple 189 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: stab wounds through a single lung, thirty or forty wounds 190 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: through the heart, you know, So the best we can 191 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: do is estimate. But really the description between thirty wounds 192 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: and twenty wounds is you just know that there's a 193 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: lot of wounds there. This person was very angry. Can 194 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: I ask you a personal question, doctor Tim Gallagher? Do 195 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: you have a family? I do yet, including a wife 196 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: and children? Well, I don't have any children. Do you 197 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: and your wife ever talk about what you do for 198 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: a living? Not one. I was just listening to you talking. 199 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: I was just imagining you sitting over dinner. Maybe you 200 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: know you had chicken out of the crock pot. You're 201 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: talking about overlapping stab wounds, so many of them, you 202 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: just can't tell how many of there are. Do you 203 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: guys ever talk about that? Well, you know she was 204 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: in she's a doctor as well, but she does cancer patients. 205 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: You know, she works with cancer patients, and her idea 206 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: of morbid things are not my idea of morbid thing. 207 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: We do watch a lot of the forensic shows on television, 208 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: but we don't really talk about my line of work 209 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: as much as we talk about hers. As she woke up, 210 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: what about you? All I have to say is I 211 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: didn't marry an attorney, did I? So what I did? 212 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: Though in my kids neither did I? Thank God? And 213 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: happen right? No, And listen, you know, in our worlds, regrettably, 214 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: you're such a great victim's advocate. In our world this 215 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: is not a typical. We see children get abdected. But 216 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: what is not typical is these parents have been soothing 217 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: for how long forty plus years, having no idea what 218 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: happened to their daughters. I'm asking you if you ever 219 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: talks about these cases to your family. Of course, I've 220 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: got children, you know, I've got three kids. Of course 221 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: I do. I probably talk too much because I never 222 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: get into these kind of details. No way, I mean, 223 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, I mean, I'm just curious. I never talk 224 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: about details of crime case is to my husband or 225 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: my children, who besides us wants to hear about thirty 226 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: six stab wounds. I'm a little girl. And then they overlap, 227 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: so it made it really hard to tell just how 228 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: many times she'd been stabbed. I mean, that's very heavy, 229 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: that's incendiary talk. Listen, we eat, sleep, and breathe this Nancy, 230 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: the people in our business, and it's nice to just 231 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: come home and not talk about it and just disconnect 232 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: it really is. You know what my husband does, he's 233 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: an investment banker. I tried to read his emails one time, Robert, 234 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: I teld you this, my eyes started bleeding. It was 235 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: so boring. I couldn't take it. But I'm sure he 236 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: does not want to hear about this. Let me get back, 237 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: let me get us out of the weeds and back 238 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: in the middle of the road. I'm just curious because 239 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: I never talk about details of cases when I'm not 240 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: working the case. I don't want it stuck in my 241 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: children or my husband's heads. Okay, so the body is 242 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: found in a cornfield and I'm just trying to if 243 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: I was trying this case, a conveyed it to a jury, 244 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: what this child? And yes, under the law, she is 245 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: a child. She is a minor went through being raped 246 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: and murdered in a cornfield. But the search is on. 247 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief Robert Marshall with a Naperville 248 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: Police depart conducted a search of the area, found her 249 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: body and she was deceased and had been stabbed multiple times. 250 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: Our department immediately began an investigation to find Julie's killer. Unfortunately, 251 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: the offender was not immediately found, and our department never 252 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: in five decades gave up looking for Julie's killer. The 253 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: last forty nine years, we've chased many leads, identified many suspects, 254 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: and all were eliminated through the exhaustive investigation by R detectives. 255 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: Can we get real just a moment, Lisa Farvor joining 256 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: us from patch dot com. You know, it's got to 257 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: be somebody from that area, maybe from even that neighborhood 258 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: or two roads over, or somebody that's in that neighborhood frequently, 259 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: like a delivery person or the newspaper guy, somebody that 260 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: drives through there or again lives there. Who is gonna 261 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: know to snatch this girl right there in a spot 262 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: where they had to believe nobody was going to see 263 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: them doing the snatching and drag her into a cornfield. 264 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: Who would know that other than someone that had that 265 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: lives there or goes through there all the time. Lisa, 266 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: that kind of limits that narrows a suspect pool, does 267 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: it not. Yeah, I think that that was what was 268 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: particularly chilling when this took place for the community, because 269 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: from what I've read at that time, you know, people 270 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: in the area rarely locked their doors, you know, if 271 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: everyone just felt super safe. So I think the fact 272 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: that this happened, and it seems as though it was 273 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: probably someone from the community, might have been one of 274 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: the most chilling aspects of what happened. Prime Stories with 275 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Guys, we are talking about the brutal kidnap, rape, 276 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: and murder of a teen girl that borrows her little 277 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: brother's bike to go watch a baseball game a few 278 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: blocks away. She never makes it to the game. She's 279 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: abducted en route to the game. Her body found raped, 280 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: brutally stabbed at least thirty six times dead in a cornfield. 281 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Rob Lgs WLSTV, ABC 282 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: seven Chicago. It was so tough for then, and I 283 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: think it's got to be hard for the family at 284 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: this point because it brings it all back Tonight. Peggy 285 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: Thompson's childhood friends are remembering fifteen year old Julianne Hanson 286 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: and her family. She was very personable, a very sweet girl. 287 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: She's only a couple of years older than us, but 288 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: she babysat some of the kids in the neighborhood. Nearly 289 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: fifty years ago, in nineteen seventy two, Julie Hansen was 290 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: brutally murdered. Her body found in a field near eighty 291 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: seventh and Modaff Road in Naperville. No one locked doors, 292 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: We knew everybody, and then this happened. And I've called 293 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: at the end of the age of innocence because it 294 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: immediately changed to a very fearful existence, especially for us 295 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: as kids. That is exactly what Lisa Farv is telling 296 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: us about. At the time of this little girl's brutal murder. Again, 297 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: you were hearing from our friends at WLSTV. The case 298 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: goes on, the search heats up. What do we know 299 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: about the search efforts at the time, Lisa, However, what 300 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: did they do to try to catch the purp at 301 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: the time. I know that they from my understanding, they 302 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: did some pretty exhaustive what they were able to do 303 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: at the time with the limited amount of research that 304 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: they had. But the major development obviously didn't happen until 305 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: much later, when technology kind of, you know, changed a 306 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: little bit. Let me out to doctor Tim Gallagher, a 307 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: medical examer joining us out of Florida. Doctor Gallagher, we 308 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: know that she was raped according to the police report. 309 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: When you examine a body, what do you find as 310 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: supporting the theory of rape, Well, there are two things. 311 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: One of them you would look for bruising in the 312 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: general area, bruising around the vagina, bruising around the bones 313 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: of the vagina. You'd also look for a torn tissue, 314 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, in that area, torn tissue within the vagina 315 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: and within the anus. Additional places to look for are 316 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: the lips, look behind lips to see if there's any 317 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: trauma behind the lips as well. And generally these days 318 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: we would do a sexual assault kit and look for 319 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: seamen evidence, trace, DNA and other five clothing fibers that 320 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: may have been left by the assailant. Let me go 321 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: out to a special guest joining us, Andrew Singer of 322 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: Body Technologies, the largest private forensic DNA lab in the 323 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: United States. You can find them at boditech dot com 324 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: bodetech dot com. Andrew, when you find sperm in or 325 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: on the body and you look under a microscope, what 326 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: does that look like? Well, believe it or not, Nancy, 327 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: in most of these cases, we are not actually looking 328 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: for the sperm. We are looking for the presence of 329 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: foreign male DNA within these cases. And as we identify that, 330 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: we are we are working to develop a DNA profile 331 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: from that foreign foreign evidence, and we separate that from 332 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: from the victim and we take that profile and put 333 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: it into databases to try to figure out who that 334 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: came from. So then let me back up to doctor 335 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher. I'm trying to figure out I mean, I 336 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: know what it looks like under a microscope because I've 337 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: looked at it the crime lab. But when you're looking 338 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: at the body, how do you detect and identify sperm? Well, 339 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: it's true you can't identify a sperm, but you could 340 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: identify a semen and you know that the sperm is 341 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: probably within the semen if it does exist, right, providing 342 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: that person you're providing the person did not have a 343 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 1: vase activity, you would find a sperm within the semen. 344 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: So typically we would find that on the inner parts 345 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: of the thighs, in the pubic region of the victim, 346 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: and around the anal area. And what does the sperm 347 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: or as you say, semen look like under a microscope. Well, 348 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: seman in itself is a protein, you know, so there 349 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: really is no description of it. There's no solid part 350 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: of the semen. But the sperm within the semen would 351 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: look like a single cell. Like a football. It looks 352 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: like a football with a big long tail coming out 353 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: of it. Okay, wait a minute, I thought it looked 354 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 1: like a shrimp. Shrimp, no um both for humans. For humans, 355 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: it looks like a football with a big long with 356 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: a tail with a big long whiptail coming out of 357 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: the back of it. That's the shrimp. Um I. Okay, 358 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: you say football, I beholder. I would imagine. So you 359 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: see that under the microscope. Now, sperm can live. As 360 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: I recall about seventy two hours, it starts um falling apart. 361 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: Literally first the tail falls off and the head falls 362 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: off more to my shrimp comparison. Do I have that 363 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: much right? Well, it does live seventy two hours under 364 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: the right conditions, the right temperature, and within the right fluid. Yes, 365 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: But if it drives out, you know, on the leg 366 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: of somebody, you know it's going to be dead when 367 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: that semen is dry. And Andrew Singer, do you need it? 368 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: Can you still get the DNA from it even if 369 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: it's stride Yes, you can, yep. And most of these 370 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: cases like this one, with proper collection and storage of 371 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: the sample, obviously we can get DNA profiles off of 372 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: it thirty, forty, fifty, even longer years after it has 373 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: been collecting. That's amazing, Andrew, That is amazing, Andrew Singer. 374 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: So how do you store it, doctor Gallagher, to make 375 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: sure that somebody like Andrew Singer Boti technologies can get 376 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: an ID one day, maybe even fifty years later. How 377 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: do you have to store it and not screw it up? Well, 378 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: moisture is the enemy of DNA, so you would have 379 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: to store it in a dry area, you know, on 380 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: a porous surface like like there's certain types of paper 381 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: that you can leave it on and store it in 382 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: a dry area. And it'll deserve itself very well. Okay, 383 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: now that is where I just learned another new thing, 384 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. I thought maybe I've been watching too much 385 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: dexter um. I thought you put it on glass slides. No, well, 386 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: you would put it on glass slides if it's fresh, 387 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: if it's a fresh sample and the temperature is correct, 388 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: and you feel that there may be a motile or 389 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: a live sperm, you know, within the cement. Otherwise you 390 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: put it on did you say something a can to paper? 391 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: All right, there's something called Watchman paper that you can 392 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: put it on, and it's very poor. Could you spell 393 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: that because I couldn't understand you. Sorry, Watchman w h 394 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: A T M A N N Watchman paper. We could 395 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: place it on a Watchman paper and then store it 396 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: in a dry area and that'll stay viable for I mean, 397 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: the DNA will not break down four decades and decades. Okay, 398 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: give me a comparison so I can understand. What does 399 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: Watsman paper look like. I'm imagining that that blue paper 400 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: like almost like a cloth material used to change oil with, 401 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that's wrong. What does Watson paper look like? 402 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: If you remember the old post board like oak tag 403 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: heavy cardboard. Um, a gift box maybe something like a 404 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: like a gift box flid. Yes, yes, okay, now I understand. 405 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: And how big is the paper? Like two inches by 406 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: two inches? Well, it comes in rolls. It's as big 407 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: as you need it to be, you know. So you 408 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: know they can come pre cutting four by four cards 409 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: four inch by four inch, right, but it can come 410 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: in longer. Did you know any of that, Jackie? Okay, 411 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: Now this is where you come in, Andrew Singer, Um, 412 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: take a listen to Chief Robert Marshall. People often call 413 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: these type of cases cold cases. This was never a 414 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: cold case for our police department. We continually investigated this 415 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: case throughout those forty nine years. We were all conscious 416 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: of Julie's murder, looking for the killer, and we had 417 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: Julie's picture on our desks and investigations for all of 418 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: these years. Throughout the years, the investigators that have worked 419 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: this case have come, some have retired, and every one 420 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: of us assigned to investigations took the opportunity to work 421 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: at the work on this case and look for evidence 422 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: that would lead to the identification of Julie's killer. Karen Stark, 423 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: you have been in my office many many times at 424 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: court TV, just like as in the district Attorney's officer 425 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: where are prosecuted. There's a lot of pieces of evidence there, photos, 426 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: not gory crime scene photos. But for instance, I still 427 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: have a photo in my office. It's a button the 428 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: family of Travis Alexander, Jody Airis's murder victim, gave me. 429 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: It's a button that they would wear. It's a picture 430 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: of Travis Alexander. And I see that frequently when I 431 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: open a particular drawer. There are its memories, and I'm 432 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: thinking about these cops that kept Julianne's picture on their 433 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: desks to remind them this case has not been sold. 434 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: I mean, after you work on an investigation or prosecution 435 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: for a long time, even if your victim is dead, 436 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: you get attached to the victim. You get attached to 437 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: the mission of getting justice. I don't find that unusual 438 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: at all. Neither do I Nancy, and I do remember 439 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 1: all of those photographs that you had in your office. 440 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: Doesn't surprise me because we're talking about the victims, and 441 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: so often we remember the person that committed the crime, 442 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: the perpetrators. The victims stay with us, you know, we 443 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: learned about them and their innocence, and like in this story, 444 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: the cornfield, that vision that will never lead my mind, 445 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: that picture of this innocent girl there, and so it 446 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense to me they kept it there. They 447 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: wanted to remember her, and they wanted to solve it. 448 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, so Andrew Singer joining us 449 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: from Body Technologies, the biggest private forensic DNA lab in 450 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: the US. Andrew, let me put all sentimentality aside, because 451 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: this case is not going to be solved without somebody 452 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: just like you, a DNA scientific expert. We keep hearing 453 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: about how DNA has advanced. It's the time Julianne was 454 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: raped and murdered. How has it? It's incredible, Frankly, and 455 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: I do actually want to commend the investigators and all 456 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: of those involved in the case for properly collecting the 457 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: DNA and storing it for all of these years, holding 458 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: out the hope that this case would eventually be solved. 459 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: Twenty thirty years ago, you were looking at needing DNA 460 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: the size of bloodstain, the size of a quarter, if 461 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: not longer, to be able to just type it and 462 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: search it. And we've advanced so far where you can 463 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: simply get DNA from just a few cells. And in 464 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: this case, the way they were able to identify it 465 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: is through true novel advancements and the way these DNA 466 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: profiles are searched and to identify where the source of 467 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: the DNA came from. So the DNA from the seamen, 468 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: from the sperm that long ago on this little girl 469 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: was properly collected, was at the crime lab, I mean 470 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: at the morgue, was then saved, was then sent to 471 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: the crime lab. The chain of evidence was kept, and 472 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: Robert Crispin I nearly lost a serial killer because I 473 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: could get him on one murder and the chain was 474 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: not protected, the chain of custody critical. People think it's 475 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: no big deal, But what happened in that case was 476 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: the homicide detective. What did he do? He mislabeled the bag, 477 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: something was wrong with the label on the bag. We 478 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: got the Purps DNA. It was bagged and taken to 479 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: the crime lab. But in the bagging nothing happened to it. 480 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't contaminated, just that the name was wrong or 481 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: the case number was wrong on that bag. And it 482 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: ruined my chain of custody. And it will chain of 483 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: custody means that, for instance, jack I'm sorry, but you're 484 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: dead again. I find Jackie's dead body and incomes Robert Crispin. 485 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: He secures the scene. Crime texts come out, they take 486 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: some ded, they take her clothing. They take it to 487 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: the morgue, but they have to carry it properly to 488 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: prove in court there was no contamination. Who finds it 489 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: here has to sign the bag. I've got it and 490 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm leaving it with let's just say doctor Tim Gallagher. 491 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: At the morgue, Doctor Tim Gallagher performs his experiments on 492 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: it and then he signs off. I'm putting it in 493 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: the locker. Then the cop that comes, the transport officer 494 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: as it is called, comes and picks that up, signs it. 495 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm transporting it to the crime lab. And when it 496 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: gets to the crime lab, date time, all of that 497 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: on there. The crime lab person that accepts it signs it, 498 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: and then the scientist signs it, and that would be 499 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: Andrew Singer from Bodie Technology. If you can't prove each 500 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: and every step of that chain of custody, it cannot 501 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: come into evidence. Bam, there you go. So you save 502 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: all this evidence. You finally get it in the hands 503 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: of somebody like Andrew Singer, and then what do you 504 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: do with it? Andrew Singer? Oh, by the way, I 505 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: had the DNA retaken. I went with the investigator to 506 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: get the DNA, pursue it to warrant, of course. Then 507 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: he and I transported it to the crime lab and 508 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: handed it over. I didn't sign it because I was 509 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: going to try the case and I couldn't cross the 510 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: exam of my own self. So he signed it. There 511 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: you go, We got the guy off the streets. Now 512 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: back to this, Andrew, when you get this sample, what 513 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: do you do? How can you now look at that 514 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: sample that was taken years and years and years ago 515 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: seamen from a little girl and the figure out what 516 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: do you do? Yeah, the first thing that we're doing 517 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: is we are trying to understand the case itself and 518 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: what samples arrived at our laboratory that potentially could take 519 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: it could contain DNA that's probitive to the case. So 520 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: in a case like this, if there was a sexual assault, 521 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: there would potentially be swabs from the vaginal area. We 522 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: would collect the swabs, we would process that and look 523 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: for the presence of male DNA through a screening process 524 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: that we have and then the event that it's present, 525 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: we then we run it through our laboratory and we 526 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: try to develop a DNA profile, separate it from the victim, 527 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: and ultimately have that DNA profile searched against a national 528 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: database to see if if we can identify who provided 529 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: that DNA sample, and in that case it would be 530 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: the suspect of our crimes, someone that has voluntarily or 531 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: someone's relative that has voluntarily put in their DNA. Well 532 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: you compare it to that data. But yeah, before we 533 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: get there, were typically searching it against the national database 534 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: that's that's searched by the FBI, and in this case, 535 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: and in many of these coal cases that we're using 536 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: genealogy on now, it does not result in a match. 537 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: So now there are we are processing it utilizing a 538 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: second technology. And the technology is the same type of 539 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: technology that's used by twenty three and ME and ancestry 540 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: and family tree DNA to develop your family trees. And 541 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: in some of those databases, people are voluntarily putting their 542 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: profiles in and enabling law enforcement to search against it. 543 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: Thank god. Yeah, it's really an incredible development and technology 544 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: and the ability to identify, new tools and new ways 545 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: to identify these coal cases, because there are hundreds of 546 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: thousands of them, and many of them horrific like this case. 547 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: Because of cops like Robert Crispin, medical examiners like daughter 548 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, scientists with technology laughs like Andrew Singer, and 549 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: body technology. This is what happens. Take listen to our 550 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: friends at k STP. Her doorbell camera caught a group 551 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,959 Speaker 1: of police slowly walking down her block. She then took 552 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: this photo of officers at a home right across the street. 553 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm a true crime fan. I listened to a podcast, 554 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: so of course I had to see what was going on. 555 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: But Stacy Maturn had no idea a nearly fifty year 556 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: old true crime was playing out right in front of her. Shocked, Yeah, 557 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: not what I thought. Seventy six year old Berry Welpley 558 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: was arrested last week at his Mound's View home. You 559 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: ever see him at the house? Ye never saw him once. 560 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: We lived here five years. Most neighbors we spoke with 561 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: say Welbley was quiet and stayed to himself. But one 562 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: told me he was friendly, and she hopes the allegation 563 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: isn't true. Glad he's caught. Stacy never did see her 564 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: neighbor across the street, but she may hear the name 565 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: on the mailbox on a true crime podcast, You're not 566 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: kidding about that. You were hearing Joe Mason at KSTP 567 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: and that name Barry Lee wellplay twenty seven at the time, 568 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: Julianne Hansen was yanked off her bicycle, dragged into a cornfille, 569 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: raped and stabbed thirty six times. Take a listen to 570 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: Rob Elgus WLSTVABC seven today. An incredible development in a 571 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: decades long cold case. We all have daughter us, so 572 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: we took this case personal from day one. Naperville Police 573 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: announcing they have arrested this man, Very Welpley, the seventy 574 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: six year old was living in Minnesota at this home 575 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,439 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two. Welpley was twenty seven and lived 576 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: about a mile from the Hansons. New DNA evidence helped 577 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: crack the case. For Peggy Thompson and her childhood friends. 578 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: There is relief and hope justice will finally be served. 579 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: I personally am very thankful I finally got someone. I'm 580 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: just disappointed that he lived free for fifty years. Let 581 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: me go out to Lisa Farvor, editor with Patchmedia dot 582 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 1: Com at Patch dot com. Lisa, from what I understand, 583 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: this guy now up in his seventies, twenty seven years 584 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: old at the time, was a welder that lived in 585 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: Mound's View at the time of his arrest. I retired welder. 586 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: What can you tell me? Wellple was a retired whilder 587 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: living in Moundsview at the time of his arrest. Um 588 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: when he when he lived? He didn't live in Neahbor 589 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: Villa when he was twenty seven years old, which was 590 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: at the time of Hanson's dusk, and at that time 591 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: he lived relatively close to where her family lived. What 592 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: we all sat at the beginning, this had to be 593 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: someone that lived or passed through the area frequently. He 594 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: lived within one mile of this little girl. Now, all 595 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: these years later, finally justice, A seventy six year old 596 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: retired welder, Barry Lee Welpley hid in plain sight all 597 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: of these years following the brutal rape and murder of 598 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: this little girl. May he wrought in hell Sadly, both 599 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: of Julie Anne's parents have passed on. They did not 600 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: live to see full justice. But don't worry. We will 601 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: God willing Nancy Grace's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,