Speaker 1: Pushkin Justice, the French electronic music duo comprised of Gaspa
Speaker 1: OJ and Xavier du Rone, is the gift that keeps
Speaker 1: on giving. Not only did they soundtrack every great party
Speaker 1: from the Mad Dots On along with fellow countrymen Daft Punk,
Speaker 1: of course, but they're keeping the party going in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. They just released an incredible sounding new album
Speaker 1: called Hyperdrama that not only sounds like the best possible
Speaker 1: night out in Paris, but brings in touches of jazz
Speaker 1: and experimentation that feel new for the group. They also
Speaker 1: just co produce the opening track of the Weekend's new album,
Speaker 1: a song called wake Me Up that finds a rather
Speaker 1: brilliant way of hearkening back to MJ's Thriller. We discussed
Speaker 1: the creative process behind the Weekend track their new album,
Speaker 1: why they've never been able to reproduce their iconic Cross
Speaker 1: logo in real life, and who's drums they surprisingly sampled
Speaker 1: on their first album Cross. If you'd like to watch
Speaker 1: the video of today's episode, visit our YouTube page YouTube
Speaker 1: dot com. Slash the Broken Record Podcast. This is Broken Record,
Speaker 1: real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with gaspar Ouja
Speaker 1: and Xavier Drone of Justice. What music did you grow
Speaker 1: up with me?
Speaker 2: You know, you always have a cuisin, an older cousin,
Speaker 2: or a big brother, and my case was an older cusion.
Speaker 2: He was really into the old school hard rock stuff,
Speaker 2: like a Metallica Iron Maiden, So I grew up with
Speaker 2: listening to his tapes. Then I moved on to grunge
Speaker 2: a bit, because I mean I didn't really choose it,
Speaker 2: you know, it was what you were exposed to on
Speaker 2: MTV and everything. Then I had a new metal phase
Speaker 2: for a short time, not so sure.
Speaker 3: Any any specific any album, Yeah, you were talking about
Speaker 3: it and on the way here, like I was willing
Speaker 3: to con and uh but like yeah for a few
Speaker 3: albums and and uh yeah, and I had readlocks because
Speaker 3: of them for a short time.
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry for over sharing. But there's like, for
Speaker 2: those who know how to search, there's on Google there's
Speaker 2: one picture of him with red locks. So for for
Speaker 2: all the really big girls here, I'll be what is
Speaker 2: what is one search? I will not We've said everything,
Speaker 2: so now if you're really the girl, you will find it.
Speaker 1: Responsibilities on us to find it.
Speaker 2: Responsibility or guilt because you don't know what what you're
Speaker 2: gonna find. It can be easily made with a idols
Speaker 2: might make you. However, to look at this picture.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I had dread lock still, but I think
Speaker 1: it's just a little different probably.
Speaker 2: But somehow I can imagine it's not that's bad. You know.
Speaker 1: Did you have a new metal phase?
Speaker 2: No? No, never. I mean like like like like one
Speaker 2: of the first albums I really loved was the first
Speaker 2: regigaenst the Machine album. But that's not I mean that's
Speaker 2: new metal technically because it's a guy rapping on metal. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's it's much more than this. You know.
Speaker 1: They kind of created it sadly maybe in a way,
Speaker 1: although you know, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like like it's the only band I've ever
Speaker 2: listened to in that type. No, I just handed a
Speaker 2: bit too a band then Squad too that was like
Speaker 2: the Dutch equivalent of regigaenst the Machine.
Speaker 1: What were they?
Speaker 2: Oh band? Then Squad the medal track called magog Listening.
Speaker 1: What was your trajectory in terms of what you started
Speaker 1: listening to and how alone?
Speaker 2: First the first album I Boat was a doggie style.
Speaker 1: And the Dark Star Yeah, so it's beautiful, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And still today, I love this album and I still
Speaker 2: listen to it and and because of this album, I
Speaker 2: started to listen to Parliament and Funkadelic and so my
Speaker 2: second city, the second CD I bought was Uncle Jam
Speaker 2: Wants You, And that's fun because I bolted because it's
Speaker 2: because he only has eight songs on it. It was
Speaker 2: less expensive with cheaper than the other ones, so that's
Speaker 2: why I bought this one, and I didn't really like it.
Speaker 1: First.
Speaker 2: I liked knee Deep and a Freak of the Week,
Speaker 2: of course, but years after my favorite songs on them
Speaker 2: on this album are more like a film Maneuvers and
Speaker 2: only Wants to Go to California. That are not the
Speaker 2: songs that I liked at the moment. But but because
Speaker 2: I didn't have money and I forced myself to listen
Speaker 2: to this record over and over and and and and
Speaker 2: like all good things, it's it's like, really of Tony,
Speaker 2: it's not the things that strike you first that stay
Speaker 2: with you, but more the under dogs songs and uh
Speaker 2: and yeah, I miss that a bit with like the
Speaker 2: new way we listen to music and not being able
Speaker 2: to like I can't like and I'm not scared, but yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm scared of thinking how many of my favorite songs
Speaker 2: I missed because I just listened to the singers or
Speaker 2: like the most popular songs of an album or an artist.
Speaker 1: It's really easy not to listen to a full album.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so guilt. I hate listening that way,
Speaker 1: but I'm completely guilty of it, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's very easy, but but but easy
Speaker 2: way of of not doing so. And this is what
Speaker 2: we do a bit still is buying vinyls, Like the
Speaker 2: albums I really want to listen to, I buy vinyl, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then I just I just put it on and uh,
Speaker 2: and I try not to do anything else. It's very
Speaker 2: difficult not to be tempted to listen to record and
Speaker 2: watch something else at the same time. But it's but
Speaker 2: it's worth it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like reading a book these days. It's like you
Speaker 1: have to if you dedicate yourself to do it, it's
Speaker 1: worth the time. But yeah, it's hard to slow yourself
Speaker 1: down enough to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and exactly the same way, like like it's it's
Speaker 2: really rare to get into a book before you have
Speaker 2: read at least like one hundred pages of it and
Speaker 2: then it's it's like you you start getting in it
Speaker 2: and and you stop reading and you start just like
Speaker 2: fluing in it and do the same with the record.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what do you think it is about the
Speaker 1: Snoop Dog record about dog Star that makes it still
Speaker 1: good today?
Speaker 2: Everything like like like first is that pretty much every
Speaker 2: song on Dougie Style is a nassemblage. It's like a
Speaker 2: blend of like three songs of a Parliament and Frankadelics,
Speaker 2: So they're starting from a good material and then doctor
Speaker 2: dre as the great producer that is, he made it
Speaker 2: the right way to make this song in something modern
Speaker 2: and sometimes even better than the original tracks that he sampled.
Speaker 2: And Snoop at this moment was, yes, such a cool
Speaker 2: character he was at the same time, Uh a bit
Speaker 2: especially for me because I grew up in like a
Speaker 2: white Paris suburbs, so that was the exact opposite of
Speaker 2: what I what I knew, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So it was so exoti fascinating, Yeah, fascinating. You know.
Speaker 2: His rap was amazing, like yeah, there's so many, so many.
Speaker 1: His voice was really good. I mean it's still it's
Speaker 1: still iconic and still sounds but when you do listen
Speaker 1: to that era of him, You're like, wow, his voice
Speaker 1: was particularly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very specific, specific voice. It doesn't sound like anyone
Speaker 2: else in the rap and and yes so no yeah,
Speaker 2: and even like the cover like this Bad Lead Rone cover,
Speaker 2: it's like completely yeah, amateur fanzine thing. It's yes, so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, similar to like how Parliament funk Delic color album,
Speaker 1: I mean the album covers are. That was paed Ro
Speaker 1: Bell that did the Funkadelic and Parliament covers, and then
Speaker 1: it was just guy Joe Cool from Long Beach it
Speaker 1: just died recently, that did the Snoop Dogg cover. But
Speaker 1: I always felt inspired by like those hand drawn Funkadelic covers.
Speaker 2: To me, it is but but but the Parliament scatic
Speaker 2: ones are like they have a level of professionalism that
Speaker 2: the Snoop one doesn't have. But this is more psychedelic.
Speaker 2: And this is when the Snoop ones are great because
Speaker 2: they really feel true. You know, is a bit like
Speaker 2: it's not really well drawn. It looks very here, very rough,
Speaker 2: but it suits the project perfectly for you.
Speaker 1: Listening in the music was it was the art work
Speaker 1: important because you guys, we're both like graphic designers before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and I mean especially like back in
Speaker 2: the days when you had to to save money to
Speaker 2: buy your record, so obviously you would go for the
Speaker 2: cover you liked better. And if you had the choice
Speaker 2: between two records you wanted to get, and and and yeah,
Speaker 2: and and we bought like so many vinyls just for
Speaker 2: the cover. And sometimes you have this this perfect like
Speaker 2: match between what the cover is and and the music.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like we we definitely like did our graphic
Speaker 2: design education through vinyl covers and stuff like this because
Speaker 2: it's the perfect format and it's really like the the
Speaker 2: blend between like typography, photography, illustration and and on such
Speaker 2: a like concise square. You know, it's just perfect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you guys draph from a young age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we both wear But but I guess Part
Speaker 2: rose pretty well. I think I'm not too good now better,
Speaker 2: but you're very good at this, is very good at handwriting.
Speaker 2: You can really has a school graphity guy past. You know.
Speaker 2: Now I'm good at analytic drawing, but I'm not good
Speaker 2: at illustration. And guess part is a better illustrator.
Speaker 1: So analytic drum you mean more like like like.
Speaker 2: I call it like this because it was the name
Speaker 2: of the courses we had. But it's like, if if
Speaker 2: you show me like an object with the structure, I
Speaker 2: can I can enjoy it because like analytic drawing is
Speaker 2: about understanding the structure of something, and but I'm drawing.
Speaker 2: It's this, you know, it's understing how things are made
Speaker 2: and then just like draw them. So this I can do.
Speaker 1: So you draw more the way like an architect or engineer, I.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't go that far from more that direction. Then no, no,
Speaker 2: because like I can draw human body or whatever. We
Speaker 2: had like anatomic courses, so I understand how it's made
Speaker 2: and I can do it. But that doesn't make me
Speaker 2: a good drawer. Like a good drawer someone that can
Speaker 2: transfer good idea into a drawing and make you feel something.
Speaker 2: If I draw a spoon, it would look like a spoon,
Speaker 2: but you will not feel anything looking at it.
Speaker 1: That's funny, man, did how how did you two come together?
Speaker 2: We met in a in a party in a kitchen,
Speaker 2: because it's always in the kitchen that you're having the
Speaker 2: most fun at parties most of the time, and just
Speaker 2: through common friends, and we started like like laughing about
Speaker 2: what is still making us love today? You know, like
Speaker 2: just a bit of absurd humor and like just just yes,
Speaker 2: stepping away from reality and finding precise words to have
Speaker 2: fun of it. You know, I think it's if we
Speaker 2: are our favorite and humor is. But I mean, the
Speaker 2: best humor is always about precision in terms of words,
Speaker 2: you know, the choice of worlds to describe something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you guys bond over music?
Speaker 2: We both had a few like pieces of gear, but
Speaker 2: it was really radimental. Does it exist that word radimental?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay?
Speaker 1: And elementary yeah.
Speaker 2: Radimentary okay. And and at the time we used to
Speaker 2: hang out a lot in pown shops in Paris, but
Speaker 2: they used to have like some pieces of equipment like
Speaker 2: synthetizers and also records, and we could not afford the synthesizers,
Speaker 2: but we would buy records and listen to them. And
Speaker 2: the common friends that introduced us to each other. How
Speaker 2: the indie label, like a proper indie label, where they
Speaker 2: were like burning cities and then mailing them out by hand,
Speaker 2: you know, printing the covers on a home printer, So
Speaker 2: that was like a proper one. And the and yeah,
Speaker 2: two things happened at the same time is that they
Speaker 2: were making compilation and asked all their friends to make
Speaker 2: a track, so we decided to make one together and
Speaker 2: at the same time we received the stems of Simeon
Speaker 2: never Buloon for a remix contests in Paris, and this
Speaker 2: is when we made we Are Your Friends. So that
Speaker 2: that was, yeah, the first track we made alongside the
Speaker 2: other one that we met for our friends.
Speaker 1: That's really graz thought for sure. The must have been
Speaker 1: a couple more songs before that that just never came out.
Speaker 2: No, No, that was really like the beginnings. And we
Speaker 2: didn't have a computer at the time. We had like
Speaker 2: a Chai S two thousands simpler, uh gas band, had
Speaker 2: a Boss drum machine, doctorism, a cop Poly eight hundred,
Speaker 2: and we had like a Maquis mixer, uh an Archai expander,
Speaker 2: so that was doing your piano sounds. And yeah, that
Speaker 2: was made with this with no computer. We burned to
Speaker 2: CD and that was the master of the track.
Speaker 1: Did you guys even know how to use all the
Speaker 1: equipment just yet or was it kind of just experimenting
Speaker 1: the figure out how to use it? And then now we.
Speaker 2: Still don't know to be honest, nor for real, like
Speaker 2: like synthetizers are really not good at it. But because
Speaker 2: like to properly use a synthesizer, you need to understand
Speaker 2: like the electric architecture of us, because this is electricity
Speaker 2: running through things, you know. Yeah, and we never made
Speaker 2: the effort of learning. So if we have a citylizer,
Speaker 2: if we find like a good preset that we like,
Speaker 2: we can tweaky to beat to make it sound exactly.
Speaker 2: But we can't, like if you will hand us like
Speaker 2: a mini moog or harp or whatever. We can't start
Speaker 2: from like a noise or no ocillator and then get
Speaker 2: what we want. You know, that's impossible to do.
Speaker 1: And did you guys play do you guys playing instruments
Speaker 1: before that?
Speaker 2: Yes, we used to play in high school bands. I
Speaker 2: used to play bass and guitar, and Guess drums and piano.
Speaker 1: We're never in the same groups.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah we did, yeah pre internet. Yeah, at the
Speaker 2: same time as we started Justice, we were in the
Speaker 2: backing bend of a friend of us and Guess but
Speaker 2: was playing the drums and I was playing the bass.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys probably lacked in rhythm section.
Speaker 2: We guys like, yeah, we're not that tight. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we were that now, thank god the computer happened. Yeah,
Speaker 2: computer saved us.
Speaker 1: So how did you guys, how exactly did you put together?
Speaker 1: We are your friends, how did you guys manage that together?
Speaker 2: But so we received the stems for this like remix
Speaker 2: contest that was on a on a student radio in Paris,
Speaker 2: and uh, and because we didn't have a computer, just
Speaker 2: a sampler, we listened to the vocal parts and we
Speaker 2: asuly is related the chorus because we couldn't, like there
Speaker 2: was not enough memory of the on the sampler to
Speaker 2: take more. And we looked that thing and then we
Speaker 2: started like writing music on it. And we didn't even
Speaker 2: listen to the original track because we just had these
Speaker 2: stems and uh, and so we we just wrote music
Speaker 2: to those, like to those vocals exactly the same way
Speaker 2: as if the guy was here like singing something and
Speaker 2: we would just like play with him. And but but
Speaker 2: the process is still the same same today, Like we
Speaker 2: just like play around and.
Speaker 1: You both each will have something and you'll play against
Speaker 1: each other or you'll each.
Speaker 2: Uh, it depends. It's like sometimes we play together, but
Speaker 2: it's pretty rare. Like most of the times we take turns,
Speaker 2: like like one of us he's like starting something and uh,
Speaker 2: and then when the other one has an idea or
Speaker 2: when the other one sees that the other one is
Speaker 2: like has like he's just like circling around, just jump
Speaker 2: in and then continue. And that's how we make things
Speaker 2: most of the time.
Speaker 1: It feels like from the beginning and maybe I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: but it's just my impression from having well and it
Speaker 1: actually we get to that next it from you as perspective,
Speaker 1: how did We Are your Friends get as popular as
Speaker 1: it did.
Speaker 2: It's diffintively slow burner because it's like, like the big
Speaker 2: luck that we had is that we made this track.
Speaker 2: We lost the contest and we met Pedro Winter like
Speaker 2: two weeks after losing the contest. We knew who he
Speaker 2: was and for those who don't know, like at the time,
Speaker 2: he was a Death Mounk's manager, and so we end.
Speaker 1: Up and yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and he ends up coming coming to gas Path
Speaker 2: place for dinner because our friend bertrand Somi was like
Speaker 2: working on ed Banger the label with him and they
Speaker 2: were just starting it together, and so we we knew
Speaker 2: that he was looking like for like new artists and
Speaker 2: that he was a Death Monk's manager and he was there,
Speaker 2: so we at some point we told him making some music.
Speaker 2: We haven't made much, but we can play you the stuff.
Speaker 2: So we just had we are your friends to play
Speaker 2: him another track and we played it to him like okay,
Speaker 2: so we made this for contest. We lost, but we werena,
Speaker 2: we're gonna make more ifever you're interested, and he was like, nah,
Speaker 2: like give me this one. I want to release this one.
Speaker 2: So like yeah, basically, like two months after we started
Speaker 2: making music, we were signed to ed Bunger with this
Speaker 2: guy that was a French hero, you know. So we
Speaker 2: are very very happy and excited and he released the
Speaker 2: track not with not too much response. I mean it
Speaker 2: was okay, but it was not crazy. But because that's
Speaker 2: always the same thing, like like you can you can
Speaker 2: be like with a manager, you can be the biggest
Speaker 2: band in the world. If you do like a side project,
Speaker 2: you start from zero again. And with that BEng girl,
Speaker 2: I started from zero again like like people who were
Speaker 2: interested in Dastank of course, but not in the new
Speaker 2: stuff he was doing.
Speaker 1: It's like, let me play the stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he was really like doing it like a
Speaker 2: Garia style, you know, like he was like pressing like
Speaker 2: five lynd records. He was like driving on his like scooter,
Speaker 2: putting them in record stores by himself. So it was
Speaker 2: very like all handmade. And then I think one year
Speaker 2: and a half after it gets really released on Gigolo Records.
Speaker 2: It's the German label in Munich, it's a DJ hel
Speaker 2: record label. And then in two thousand and six it
Speaker 2: gets released again on Virgin Records, and this is when
Speaker 2: it started like becoming something more. So that was three
Speaker 2: years after after we released it.
Speaker 1: She has made it in two thousand and three.
Speaker 2: Yes, but everything we do is like slow. We only
Speaker 2: make slow burners, you know it. So d NC was
Speaker 2: the same our first album. It's only after like one
Speaker 2: year or something that we saw like like the first
Speaker 2: hundred one hundred thousand copies of it. Really yeah, it
Speaker 2: was like all very slow. What was of Nazareth? Our
Speaker 2: summon track was really slow, so like we had we
Speaker 2: saw the foots of that like one year or two
Speaker 2: years after. So yeah, like like making like an instant
Speaker 2: hits is definitely not our forte.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more justice after the break. My
Speaker 1: memory of the first album was like that it was
Speaker 1: kind of like instantly popular, like you know.
Speaker 2: Because your trendsetter. Maybe it was for you, maybe it was, yeah,
Speaker 2: but but it was not for the for the for
Speaker 2: the people in general, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I remember, I just remember everyone
Speaker 1: having like we are your friends and everyone parties in California.
Speaker 1: You would play it and everyone be like, oh, like
Speaker 1: there's no like remembering, like there's no album. Like that's
Speaker 1: weird because it sounded like such a like a coherent
Speaker 1: sounds like they must have like a bunch of stuff
Speaker 1: and remember like there's nothing, like where's the other stuff?
Speaker 2: And then now, yeah, it's fun because we are your friends.
Speaker 2: I guess like Siman did it, and and and probably
Speaker 2: with some kind of tongue in cheek like intention, and
Speaker 2: and and and so we kind of took this element
Speaker 2: out and and and it became like this very almost
Speaker 2: like very positive and almost naive, you know, like lyrical
Speaker 2: content and which is something like we could never come
Speaker 2: up with, you know, like just saying we are your friends,
Speaker 2: You'll never be alone again. It would be impossible for
Speaker 2: us to to yeah, to get along with those lyrics.
Speaker 2: And I guess this is what made the track popular
Speaker 2: as well, is that because the music goes into that
Speaker 2: kind of naivty direction, but with more more groove, and
Speaker 2: obviously it's more repetitive, but it's it's its completely like
Speaker 2: changed the angle of the track. Go ahead now, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's interesting because I can't imagine like coming up
Speaker 2: to Gaspan and telling him you listen, we're gonna make
Speaker 2: a song. It's gonna say where your friends, You'll never
Speaker 2: be alone again, so come on and sing him the
Speaker 2: hood and him saying, yeah, let's do it right now.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I think it would look at me and tell me
Speaker 2: like to fuck off. So it's it's very interesting. Like
Speaker 2: when we make music, we often think of this, like
Speaker 2: like would we be able to come up with the
Speaker 2: reefs such as like seven National me from is the
Speaker 2: best example of a reef that like if we we
Speaker 2: would find it, I think we would studied immediately. Uh.
Speaker 2: And the genius of those people is to manage like
Speaker 2: to to think, to like recognize what's gonna be, like
Speaker 2: something huge, and then be focused enough to manage to
Speaker 2: finish a track with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to your point, guys, but like that is such
Speaker 1: a naive lyric. But the way you guys, what you
Speaker 1: guys orchestrated around it does almost make did make it
Speaker 1: sound a little tongue in cheek, you know, like.
Speaker 2: The yeah, because the way he thinks it is like
Speaker 2: very intense, like he's screaming, you know, and it's almost
Speaker 2: like keyless in a way, you know, like but it's
Speaker 2: just yeah, I guess it's just very positive and powerful
Speaker 2: and and and also like people can relate to it
Speaker 2: because it's screamed as well. Yeah, and it's not like
Speaker 2: you know, to to what's the world to sweet and
Speaker 2: it's yeah. But when actually, when the guys from a
Speaker 2: San received a remix, they didn't like it, so we
Speaker 2: lost the contest and they they sat it sounded like
Speaker 2: medi jazz, which is not too far from the truth,
Speaker 2: you know, when you listen to it sounded like what
Speaker 2: media jazz meddi jazz. Yeah. James Ford described the song
Speaker 2: as being medi jazz. But that's fun and fair enough.
Speaker 2: It technically this is what it was. You know. It
Speaker 2: was all medi with like some kind of like a
Speaker 2: course with like a more than free not in it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's medi jazz.
Speaker 1: You know, there are peggiated kind of thing almost like
Speaker 1: I guess video game music sometimes too.
Speaker 2: It could be that, you know, Yeah, but there's are
Speaker 2: such amazing tunes like the Mario Ones and they are
Speaker 2: inspired by like jazz tunes and everything. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it makes sense.
Speaker 1: With the sounds that you guys, because like that sort
Speaker 1: of distorted the size of sound, like how did you
Speaker 1: guys come up? Come on CONCRACD? Like how did you
Speaker 1: guys die that sound?
Speaker 2: But the first thing is that is that when we because,
Speaker 2: for example, to make baselines, so we use like the
Speaker 2: base pre set in the Ark two thousand and player,
Speaker 2: so it was like maybe like one octaves and a
Speaker 2: half of base notes, but they sound like very uh
Speaker 2: sterile and the record, and so we would crank it
Speaker 2: to make it sound more real. Uh. So that that's
Speaker 2: the thing, is that a lot of the because a
Speaker 2: lot of the sounds that we have didn't sound good.
Speaker 2: We noticed that if you compress them like four times
Speaker 2: and you distort them, they start sounding good and and
Speaker 2: uh and also at the time, we used to listen
Speaker 2: to a lot of Zoo Gaming. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you know this Japanese UK band. It's really good. Well
Speaker 2: z O n G A M I N it's the
Speaker 2: guy like the main guy is a so English, a
Speaker 2: Japanese bassist and is a virtuoso, such a good player,
Speaker 2: and Zong Gamme is kind of like, yeah, disco psychedelic
Speaker 2: rock instrumental. It's like, it's still one of the best
Speaker 2: albums of this decade today. We used to listen to
Speaker 2: a lot of The White Stripes too. We love the
Speaker 2: sound of it. And so we knew that how we
Speaker 2: felt that distorting and over compressing things were making them
Speaker 2: feel better for us, also because we had no idea
Speaker 2: what we were doing, you know, so that's the shortest
Speaker 2: pass to something that's satisfactory. And then in two thousand
Speaker 2: and four we build a computer because we could finally
Speaker 2: afford one, and then we found out about the digital
Speaker 2: distortion and how far you can go with like compressors
Speaker 2: because also like when we are only hardware, we only
Speaker 2: had one compressor. Now we could put like sixteen compressors
Speaker 2: on one channel and uh and just chain like distortions
Speaker 2: and everything and uh and it just yeah, opened a
Speaker 2: new world of possibilities to us.
Speaker 1: Wow, and what what about you know you're you're talking
Speaker 1: about how you just the storting because you didn't have
Speaker 1: in your mind good sounds or the storting was the
Speaker 1: best way to come up with something satisfying. But I
Speaker 1: feel like your drum sound dating back to at least
Speaker 1: the first record too, I think drum sounds always seemed
Speaker 1: really clean to me. Not or am I am I misremembering?
Speaker 2: No, No, I mean they are clean, they're just very
Speaker 2: on the first album where without going to technical like
Speaker 2: on the master Bus, there was so many distortion and
Speaker 2: so much distortion and compression that whatever we would put
Speaker 2: in our session, we had like to lower the gain
Speaker 2: but at least like thirty six DB's for it to
Speaker 2: some normal And most of the drums on the first
Speaker 2: album they come from like there's a track on Show
Speaker 2: by Stilly Done where we took like a kick and snare,
Speaker 2: and also we had like some drum parts from solo
Speaker 2: Waks that we use, so they are live drums, but
Speaker 2: they are so compressed that they sound the way they are.
Speaker 2: We're not into like distorted drums in the sense that
Speaker 2: we we don't like when we when I don't like
Speaker 2: when I listen to record and I can pick sure
Speaker 2: like the drummer hitting like very hard. We prefer like
Speaker 2: the soft touch, and so we would try to make
Speaker 2: them sound as not soft but like not hard hitting
Speaker 2: it is possible. So that's why we never put any
Speaker 2: what's the world any he rebel discorsion on the on
Speaker 2: the drums. We don't want them to do like or
Speaker 2: just out of curiosity. If you looked at the track
Speaker 2: or from Gaucha, which we able to pick which one
Speaker 2: it's seem so that's a time out of mind. Wow,
Speaker 2: that's amazing. Were you did you guys? Were you still there?
Speaker 2: Fans not fans, but but we we we liked the
Speaker 2: for we like the idea of stilly done more than
Speaker 2: the songs. Sometimes, what was it? What was the idea
Speaker 2: to you of being two and using a studio as
Speaker 2: an instrument. It's like being two and being the orchestrator
Speaker 2: of your band, sometimes not even playing in your own band,
Speaker 2: but just being the architects and selling. Okay, so this
Speaker 2: guy is gonna play this part. This guy is gonna
Speaker 2: play this part, and uh and and that was the
Speaker 2: same thing with the Buggles that we loved. It's just
Speaker 2: like group of one or two guys, two guys in
Speaker 2: those like two cases who started to consider the possibilities
Speaker 2: of the studio more than a place where you record
Speaker 2: what you have to record. But we need to use
Speaker 2: it as a tool to make something more than more
Speaker 2: than this and u and even in the worst things
Speaker 2: like because for example, like like if you look at
Speaker 2: this like documentary about Asia, and when they when they
Speaker 2: record like the PEG solo, they use like I don't know,
Speaker 2: like thirteen deferense guitarists, and it's it's despicable, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's not it's not a good thing to do.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's cool that they were like, yeah, nope, nope,
Speaker 2: until they find the one that makes exactly the right
Speaker 2: thing thereafter. And and there's something a bit like this
Speaker 2: in the in in our bend, is that is that
Speaker 2: sometimes we we have an intuition of what we want,
Speaker 2: we don't know exactly how to get there, and it's
Speaker 2: gonna take us like dozens or hundreds of versions sometimes
Speaker 2: until we pinpoint exactly what we want. And uh so
Speaker 2: maybe that's why we recognize ourselves in this type of process.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you guys? I was?
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: I love the Flints. Yeah, yeah, cool, love the Flints.
Speaker 1: I've been meaning to try to have them out here
Speaker 1: for a few years now, a couple of years. Did
Speaker 1: you guys work with them similarly or no, like like
Speaker 1: almost like you guys were directing them still then stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we went to London in the studio to record
Speaker 2: the vocals and yeah, I mean the yeah, really great
Speaker 2: pair of twins that we we just discover on them
Speaker 2: like randomly and we love.
Speaker 1: To Yeah, how did you guys find them?
Speaker 2: And actually it's like similarly to still Done. They were
Speaker 2: like the I think the Foce people to try on
Speaker 2: that song, like to put vocals on on that track?
Speaker 2: No way, yeah, and uh and uh. But as soon
Speaker 2: as we started working on them, we felt that it
Speaker 2: would be the right the right one.
Speaker 1: Who else did you guys work with on?
Speaker 2: But it wouldn't be a nice to say, especially since
Speaker 2: in that case, like some of the people we worked with,
Speaker 2: we felt it was not working because it was not
Speaker 2: the right song for them. And there are still people
Speaker 2: that we want to try things with. So it was
Speaker 2: not out of like like lack of skills or and
Speaker 2: competitivility or whatever. It was just not the right tune.
Speaker 2: And and it happens sometimes.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a rejection of the artist at all.
Speaker 2: Never never, and and and we reject so much of
Speaker 2: what we're doing ourselves that that if it happens one
Speaker 2: time with someone, we don't mistake it for like incompetence
Speaker 2: or whatever. It's just not the right thing, you.
Speaker 1: Know that that that stretch of the album of the
Speaker 1: new album hyper hyper Drama from uh from like Dear
Speaker 1: Allen to Explore is like, that's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: was really the way it just moved. Uh the is
Speaker 1: it Midnight Rendezvous? Yeah, that Moonlight round view? Excuse me,
Speaker 1: Moonlight Rendezvous.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, we we hesitated between Midnight and Moonlight, so
Speaker 2: we didn't you really, yeah, we didn't do it because
Speaker 2: there was a Japanese track well band that was called
Speaker 2: the Midnight Rendezvous, and we didn't want to use the
Speaker 2: exact same same world.
Speaker 1: Oh man, okay, well that's that's that's what my brain
Speaker 1: went the same place. What were the that was such
Speaker 1: a cool that's such a unique track. How did that
Speaker 1: come together?
Speaker 2: Like like Moonnight, Hondezvous and Explorer they belong to the
Speaker 2: same basically for us. It's one track that's cut into
Speaker 2: to make it more digestible. And also that if you
Speaker 2: want to listen to Explore only, you don't have to
Speaker 2: listen to moon Night before and uh does this guy
Speaker 2: called is a saxophone player in friends, like a studio
Speaker 2: session player, but he also makes.
Speaker 1: It on.
Speaker 2: Records. And we also like had the PPG at the time.
Speaker 2: PPG Wave PEPG is one of the first digital synthesizer.
Speaker 2: It's a twelve bit scence and because it has a
Speaker 2: twelve bit twelve bit cheap, there's like always this kind
Speaker 2: of like bit crosser, like very soft bit crosser on
Speaker 2: it that sounds very futuristic, and it's all throughout the record.
Speaker 2: And we wanted to make this kind of like like
Speaker 2: saxophone piano track, a bit like blade runner or type
Speaker 2: of thing, you know, but with the modern sound of
Speaker 2: the pipg ins of a piano. And also like this
Speaker 2: the way we made the saxophone sound, so it has
Speaker 2: like a Yale bunch of of futurism in a classic
Speaker 2: form of writing and and uh and just a musical
Speaker 2: form you know.
Speaker 1: And did you with the with the saxophone part is beautiful?
Speaker 1: Did you how did you guys achieve it? Did you?
Speaker 1: Did it take some time or did it? Was that
Speaker 1: like a first take? Now?
Speaker 2: We worked also with another friend called Victor Leman, who
Speaker 2: was the the musical Olympics director in Paris, and uh,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, we were just like bdancing back, like
Speaker 2: you know, singing stuff to each other. And and obviously
Speaker 2: they are we can't play the saxophone, so but we
Speaker 2: we were just like directed this guy a solo man.
Speaker 2: And and he's a really funny character because he's he's
Speaker 2: a huge guy. You know, he looks like an American
Speaker 2: football player, you know, like massive shoulders and a very
Speaker 2: like I mean, he looks very like masculine in a
Speaker 2: WiFi in the sense that his old school, old school masculine.
Speaker 2: And he's like a great Superson City jazz musicians. So
Speaker 2: I really really love like the deco to me of
Speaker 2: this guy. And we spent like an afternoon, like a
Speaker 2: whole day with him in the studio, and so we yeah,
Speaker 2: we would direct him and and for example, we would
Speaker 2: tell him things like, okay, so now you go into
Speaker 2: like the cocaine jazz part. So he was playing and
Speaker 2: like now you put like more cocaine and you're playing,
Speaker 2: you know. But because there's like different forms of jazz.
Speaker 2: There's like and one of them is the cocaine jazz,
Speaker 2: and then there's the heroine jazz. But we we didn't
Speaker 2: want to go in that hero into that territory, but
Speaker 2: we would say things like this because we knew that
Speaker 2: because and that's the good thing with working with like
Speaker 2: friends is that like they know exactly what we're talking
Speaker 2: about when we were saying that, because we have kind
Speaker 2: of the same references and and things. So there was
Speaker 2: no cocaine at the studio, but he knows what cocaine
Speaker 2: jazz is, so it would do like the type of
Speaker 2: parts and then we say, you know, so now it's
Speaker 2: more like it would describe him like it's stupid, tough,
Speaker 2: you know, like okay, so now it's too much like
Speaker 2: you're working like a letther can girls. So we don't
Speaker 2: do that, you know, like like those those guys who
Speaker 2: know exactly what we but what we talk about like
Speaker 2: this all this, so we know that's a wait for
Speaker 2: us to achieve like precise results.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, those kinds of references that you can both.
Speaker 1: So cocaine jazz would be more like like mid seventies
Speaker 1: and the like eighties jazz like that or if or.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's a choice of notes but also interpretation,
Speaker 2: and it's in that song. It's more when it's like
Speaker 2: it he stops like following like the main theme and
Speaker 2: goes a bit more improvictional and and it's and it
Speaker 2: starts like cranking a bit, like just putting more more
Speaker 2: air into the saxophone and playing more disparate a bit
Speaker 2: like looking for blue notes and everything rather than sticking
Speaker 2: to the softer parts at the beginning.
Speaker 1: And got the gout it right because you did say
Speaker 1: it was for that specific part you asked for that,
Speaker 1: because yeah, cause it sounds like like, you know, he's
Speaker 1: kind of in the in the in the cut for
Speaker 1: most of the songs. But okay, so it was for
Speaker 1: that particular part and he wanted him the.
Speaker 2: But he does well like long leader cuts, yeah, black
Speaker 2: leather cuts. So yeah, he's in those zone for sure.
Speaker 1: You guys gotta bring him on the tour. It would
Speaker 1: be great, so hell of a site, but it's too
Speaker 1: busy a man, how like you know, those are eight
Speaker 1: years between albums, do you guys continue? And your solo
Speaker 1: album was released between there, Yeah, which was I really
Speaker 1: liked that one too, by the way, and the cover
Speaker 1: too with the tuning for tuning for one was like
Speaker 1: it's like one of those crazy covers you find in
Speaker 1: like a record store or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's yeah, it's I mean, yeah, it's mostly
Speaker 2: our main reference for record covers. It's hypnosis, you know,
Speaker 2: like the old label. Yeah, if I do the all
Speaker 2: the graphic design studio from the seventies that did the
Speaker 2: old at least the best covers for us. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so great, that's a great documentary on the Yeah,
Speaker 2: they did like the late Ziplin covers, Pink Flood and yeah,
Speaker 2: best studio, Like they made something that would never exist again. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: It's it's like there are some artists that make things
Speaker 2: and uh and they kill the possibility of doing something
Speaker 2: better afterwards and ignow this is one of the studio.
Speaker 2: There's like an automovet Hal for example, he made like
Speaker 2: a Japanese animation in a way that's not going to
Speaker 2: exist anymore. I think miyas a key when it will stop.
Speaker 2: If we'll bring this with him too, you know that
Speaker 2: people who will reach a level that makes it impossible
Speaker 2: to come afterward. Her Blue Berlin with the typography is
Speaker 2: the same, like since the since he stopped like doing things,
Speaker 2: there was nobody that managed like to reach his level.
Speaker 1: So it happened sometimes, and you think it's because someone
Speaker 1: got such a level of greatness that it's hard to Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's just makes it impossible. They kill it with when
Speaker 2: they stopped, they killed the discipline, and then you have
Speaker 2: to do something. But it's it's fine. You know.
Speaker 1: That's not what I think about a lot, and I
Speaker 1: don't like to I guess it could it feels like
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, I guess the pression at the pression,
Speaker 1: But sometimes I start to feel like maybe there must
Speaker 1: be a saturation point and maybe we were reaching it
Speaker 1: where like I mean sometimes, I mean I often feel
Speaker 1: that way with film, Like I look at films now,
Speaker 1: I look at an old like I look like a
Speaker 1: what I would have thought was a really terrible like
Speaker 1: movie from thirty or forty years ago, and I'm watching
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, look at those shots like I wouldn't
Speaker 1: like I don't even see that, and like the best
Speaker 1: movie now.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Then I start to feel like, well, maybe movies are
Speaker 1: just maybe they're done, you know, I don't, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but the thing is that we're optimistic and and
Speaker 2: they they kill like the the discipline with them, but
Speaker 2: then the new things coming in and things are just
Speaker 2: being made differently. But but for example, there was like
Speaker 2: a like a gibli after Automo. It's just different and
Speaker 2: it's great and it's another form of animation and they
Speaker 2: made something amazing but different and uh and with topography.
Speaker 2: Then there was like a lot of other things happening after.
Speaker 2: So it doesn't mean that things will not be good again,
Speaker 2: they will be different. And also it's a bit there's
Speaker 2: a buyers because those are personal heroes. But I guess
Speaker 2: like people are twenty twenty years younger than we are
Speaker 2: have different heroes, and so it's very subjective, it is
Speaker 2: in a way. But at the same time there's like
Speaker 2: a level of technicity that's objective and that can't be
Speaker 2: like the technicity of a hubble ballin for example, it's
Speaker 2: unmatched and I don't think it's possible to make it.
Speaker 2: And obviously we will don't exist without the computer, either
Speaker 2: in a graphic design or music. But I think that yes,
Speaker 2: definitely something has been lost, like just that link between
Speaker 2: the hand and the brain. And so this is why
Speaker 2: like the the cars look terrible, the buildings look terrible
Speaker 2: for most of them, you know, and just because it's
Speaker 2: it's that natural connection has been a bit lost with computer.
Speaker 2: This and also the fact that when you look at
Speaker 2: a Hubluebling logo, even if you have like four times
Speaker 2: like the letter A like the four times, they're gonna
Speaker 2: be just slightly different just to make the right interconnection.
Speaker 2: And so like an optical balance that's good as today
Speaker 2: with the computer, you're gonna in most cases type your
Speaker 2: world or even if you do it, and when you
Speaker 2: are satisfied with an A, you're gonna take it and
Speaker 2: then duplicate it. And that's why you you that's also
Speaker 2: why you can't reach the same level of a precision
Speaker 2: and everything when you stop working by hand.
Speaker 1: To do you think about that we're making music the
Speaker 1: way you make music. Do you think about how to
Speaker 1: your example to your point, Like if you make something
Speaker 1: it's just very easy to copy paste, like oh this
Speaker 1: this is it just sort of lupid or copy pay
Speaker 1: or whatever. But do you think about sometimes like there's
Speaker 1: a slight variation to this that could happen in the
Speaker 1: song that would make this song even stronger if it
Speaker 1: was this part but just slightly a little faster, a
Speaker 1: little solwer behind the beat, ahead of the beat, or
Speaker 1: just off a bit or you know, the imperfection that
Speaker 1: can sometimes if you want to call it that.
Speaker 2: Of course we do, but that's also why we don't try.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we like in a world where we
Speaker 2: like skills or whatever, wouldn't be all technicity wouldn't be
Speaker 2: a problem. We would probably be a band like she
Speaker 2: calls stilly Dan. But because because of all these reasons, specifically,
Speaker 2: we were not trying to make she called stidy dance music,
Speaker 2: but taking advantage of what the computer canfil to make
Speaker 2: something different that doesn't try to be that, but to
Speaker 2: be something that's taking yet that's taking the best in
Speaker 2: our is that computers can do, which is repetitivity like precision,
Speaker 2: power and stuff like this. And then within a song,
Speaker 2: of course we can't help. But like even on songs
Speaker 2: that are loop based, at the end, there's not two
Speaker 2: loops that are the same. It's like constantly like shifting
Speaker 2: and progressing. So the aline is one loop from the
Speaker 2: beginning till the end. There's a b section in the middle,
Speaker 2: but those loops that will there's not two loops that
Speaker 2: are exactly the same as always like something changing. But
Speaker 2: that's because we are like a borderline. We have like
Speaker 2: a severe lack of deficit of attention. So we need
Speaker 2: things to be changing all the time. And not that
Speaker 2: we compare ourselves to Hike or Stilly Down. Of course,
Speaker 2: we would never try to do something like them, you know,
Speaker 2: because we know it's like it's pointless.
Speaker 1: One last break and moving back with justice. Do you
Speaker 1: guys ever Nile Rogers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did actually in Los Angeles you go something
Speaker 2: like this great bands.
Speaker 1: What was the occasion.
Speaker 2: It was, like I think it was some Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: It was a zay No party. Yeah, and he was there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was great like for us, like him and Bernard was.
Speaker 2: I think Bernard Wants is a bit like easily forgotten.
Speaker 1: Oh so easily forgotten to us.
Speaker 2: She is really the blend of Nirojos and Bernard and
Speaker 2: even like from Sons at the drums. But but like
Speaker 2: I remember when when we were listening to Sikh when
Speaker 2: we were like when we met and uh and even
Speaker 2: before that all the stuff that they did. What we
Speaker 2: loved about their music is that it's very difficult to
Speaker 2: comprehend what they are doing, you know, like even when
Speaker 2: you listen to like I don't know, like for me,
Speaker 2: one of the best examples is the freak or upside
Speaker 2: down because like they're so intertwined and they're playing that.
Speaker 2: When when I, for example, when I finally finally learned
Speaker 2: how to play like the freak on the guitar, I
Speaker 2: was so disappointed because the guitar part is very deceitful
Speaker 2: on its own, because it doesn't sound at all like
Speaker 2: what you're listening when you listen to the record and
Speaker 2: and to us that the magic of this band is
Speaker 2: the perfect intertwining of at least.
Speaker 1: There are also to your points, like the guitar on
Speaker 1: its own just solowed is just yeah, it's that's that magical.
Speaker 2: Yeah, earl, But but that's the genius. They know not
Speaker 2: to overdo it. They just do exactly what they have
Speaker 2: to do so that it works as a whole, like
Speaker 2: like the in that regard, uh the Strokes how great band?
Speaker 2: Also uh like like between like the two guitars, the
Speaker 2: bass and the drums, Like if you listen closely, they
Speaker 2: do like something different all the time. They do things
Speaker 2: that don't really make sense on their own, but everything
Speaker 2: is so well in Tatwine that it makes for an
Speaker 2: amazing result.
Speaker 1: Yeah did you was was was now? Was now familiar?
Speaker 1: With your guys' stuff. At least he pretended party is
Speaker 1: and he seems like he's up on stuff. I think
Speaker 1: he that he is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we we don't know for sure, but he
Speaker 2: was like very nice.
Speaker 1: That's pretty, that's pretty, that's man, that's pretty cool of
Speaker 1: zaying love got a love part of me. Now, Rogers,
Speaker 1: would you would you? I mean thinking and Nile thinking
Speaker 1: of like you know, like them doing records for you
Speaker 1: know whatever, Madonna and Diana Ross and then you guys
Speaker 1: just did wake me up we referenced earlier for the weekend.
Speaker 1: Is that something you guys would do more of, like
Speaker 1: making stuff for other artists or with other artists.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily we we we're not running after this. We
Speaker 2: would we would do it if we if the initial
Speaker 2: ideas sounds good to us, and if we think there's
Speaker 2: something interesting to do. But producing pop music for the
Speaker 2: sake of producing pop music doesn't interest us.
Speaker 1: How did that we can collaboration come together?
Speaker 2: You get in touch, like I can't remember if it
Speaker 2: was late twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, something
Speaker 2: like this while we were still working on our album,
Speaker 2: and you told us that, yeah, he wanted to make
Speaker 2: like an orchestral piece that would be like an opening,
Speaker 2: that would sound good as an opening and uh. And
Speaker 2: then we started talking like about what he wanted to
Speaker 2: do and and we thought it was the fact that
Speaker 2: he called us to make this made sense to us.
Speaker 2: So we're like, okay, let's let's do it and uh
Speaker 2: and yeah, and then we we worked on enough on
Speaker 2: it for one year something.
Speaker 1: Wow, how did how did the thriller of it come
Speaker 1: into play?
Speaker 2: So we first like made the orchestral part to the
Speaker 2: beginning of the song as it is now almost and uh,
Speaker 2: play to him and and we made like ten seconds
Speaker 2: of music as a drop to show him that it
Speaker 2: could go somewhere and it could be more than just
Speaker 2: like an intro, you know. And I was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I like this, Like give me more of that. And
Speaker 2: so we we because we're working on our album, we
Speaker 2: made something very quickly and uh that sounded a lot
Speaker 2: like thriller. And we told him, Okay, there you go
Speaker 2: as a demo, but beware it sounds a lot like
Speaker 2: thriller able and he was like, yeah, and I like
Speaker 2: that it sounds like thriller. And I mean it makes
Speaker 2: sense because like there's a there's a natural filation between
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson and him. Yeah, and uh on on different levels.
Speaker 2: And we think he liked the idea of overtly is
Speaker 2: it the right world or openly having like a Micael
Speaker 2: Jackson reference in one of his songs. And and also
Speaker 2: that yeah, and also because we made like different versions
Speaker 2: with without and the all sounded good. Uh but at
Speaker 2: the end that was the one he was feeling the
Speaker 2: most at ease with, and uh, fair enough. It just works.
Speaker 1: It's cool though too that like it's it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: because we're talking about I mean, it's the breakdown of thrillers.
Speaker 1: So it's like even though it's like the most you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the most iconic Michael is the most iconic Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson song, it's like a part of the song that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't necessarily grab, like thing to use if you're
Speaker 1: gonna you know, use some of it, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and and and actually it's it's only like
Speaker 2: the base placement. It's just it's just to do, like
Speaker 2: to do That's just it because the notes everything else
Speaker 2: is different, but.
Speaker 1: The notes of the base are different.
Speaker 2: Now everything even the notes of the apidu, like the cords.
Speaker 2: Nothing is the same. It's just like the placement.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But but in all fairness and also knowing that we
Speaker 2: we all you what it was, it makes sense also
Speaker 2: not to do it the subway and to include the
Speaker 2: Rod Templeton in the thing. You know. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 2: it's an idea, and the idea was was very clear.
Speaker 2: But on the musical point of view, it's not. It's
Speaker 2: not the same notes. But of course everybody thinks of freedom,
Speaker 2: so it makes sense to include him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we were talking about album covers earlier. Fourth album,
Speaker 1: hyper Inflation, hyper hyper Drama.
Speaker 2: What did you create the fourth hyper Inflation?
Speaker 1: Don't even don't even ask me. Hyper Drama is the
Speaker 1: fourth album? Okay, and it occurred. It didn't really occurred
Speaker 1: to me before, but occurred to me looking at him now.
Speaker 1: There's been a fortune that you guys never put your
Speaker 1: name on on the album.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but but that's the we're talking about hypnosis earlier.
Speaker 2: That's the led Zippeline Lawson we learned. Is that is
Speaker 2: that on King Floyd too? Yeah, but on Pick Floyd
Speaker 2: it's written on the cover, but not every time, but
Speaker 2: from let Zeppelin four onwards, so on have seas of
Speaker 2: the Holy Two presence. There's not the name of the
Speaker 2: band on the covers anymore, no track list, no album name, nothing,
Speaker 2: and uh and yeah, we've always liked this idea of
Speaker 2: putting minimal information. You just put one image and and
Speaker 2: there's a on audio videos, video disco too, there's no
Speaker 2: there's no track list, nothing, you just have an image
Speaker 2: and even on the back there's nothing. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: a blend between the Chicago strategy, you know, the band like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, they always have this logo, but it's a
Speaker 2: bit different because it says Chicago. But since we have
Speaker 2: that cross logo, we just like this idea of like
Speaker 2: ripeating it over over with a different look.
Speaker 1: How did you guys come up with a cross lego?
Speaker 2: We yeah, but so hypnow this again, like like we
Speaker 2: were finishing our first album and we're like trying to
Speaker 2: look for an ID and we didn't know what to do.
Speaker 2: And one time in Toronto, after playing a show, we
Speaker 2: ended up at the promoter's place. They were like a
Speaker 2: bunch of young people and were having a drink and
Speaker 2: they had the Dark Side of the Moon on the
Speaker 2: mental piece and we looked at the at the cover
Speaker 2: and were like, yeah, this is such a great cover.
Speaker 2: If only we had the symbols frong enough that we
Speaker 2: could put on a cover and that would be it
Speaker 2: and we wouldn't need nothing else. And mind you were
Speaker 2: touring and everything, so we already had the cross with us,
Speaker 2: but for some reason we didn't think of it. And
Speaker 2: then three weeks later we had this kind of epiphany
Speaker 2: and I were like, of course we have this symbol
Speaker 2: because we have the cross, so we can just put
Speaker 2: the cross on the on the album and that would
Speaker 2: be it. And so we I called up a not
Speaker 2: friend of mine that's making music now under the name
Speaker 2: of a break Boat, but at the time I knew
Speaker 2: him because I was in graphic design school with him
Speaker 2: and we knew that he then I went into like
Speaker 2: two D graphic design and he went into three D
Speaker 2: and an animation, so he had the tools to make
Speaker 2: a model of a three D render like a cross,
Speaker 2: and we we told him like, we made the draft
Speaker 2: of the cross like this because we knew that if
Speaker 2: it was from told, he wouldn't look good. So we
Speaker 2: wanted it to have a perspective and to be a
Speaker 2: bit like the like like the ship that enters in
Speaker 2: Star Wars, you know, yeah, And so we made like
Speaker 2: a like a hand hand drone draft of the of
Speaker 2: the cover. We told him, can you do it? Can
Speaker 2: you make us a three D models? So then that
Speaker 2: so me can like enjoy it by hand, and it
Speaker 2: started working on it, and the first result they didn't
Speaker 2: look cool because actually, like the perspective of the cross
Speaker 2: that we use, it doesn't exist in the real world.
Speaker 2: It's it's an anamorphic design. We had like to transform
Speaker 2: it to a lot so that it looks cool in perspective.
Speaker 2: If you take our cross as it is on our albums,
Speaker 2: you render it in three D and then you you
Speaker 2: walk around it, it's almost like the same size on
Speaker 2: both sides of the horizontal bars. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I'm making sense.
Speaker 1: The both bars are the same length, like the like.
Speaker 2: The the the bottom bar and the top bar, they
Speaker 2: are the same length. So if you take perspect if
Speaker 2: you look at it like like if you take the
Speaker 2: three D model and then you you flip it and
Speaker 2: you put it from all it's it's going to be
Speaker 2: like a US where the horizontal bar is in the
Speaker 2: middle almost of the vertical bound. Interesting, So we had
Speaker 2: like to cheat and to adapt like the three D
Speaker 2: until it looks like what it does. That's why we
Speaker 2: can never do it in in in real life. Sometimes
Speaker 2: we would think maybe for this event or maybe sometimes festivals,
Speaker 2: there can we make the crossing three D? And so
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you can't, because this shape doesn't exist
Speaker 2: in the real world, or if it does, it looks corny.
Speaker 2: It doesn't look at all. It's an anamorphos. Anamorphosis we
Speaker 2: say in English, Wow, it's not it's not. It doesn't
Speaker 2: look like this in in real That's.
Speaker 1: Kind of makes it even cooler that it's not replicable
Speaker 1: in real life and a way it is, but it
Speaker 1: looks like shit, you know whatever, it's not replicable in
Speaker 1: the way that you intended it to look, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like like for example, like all the covers of
Speaker 2: Audio Audio Video Disco or second album, they were like models,
Speaker 2: miniatures that were photographed, and the miniatures they looked so
Speaker 2: weird because because just one point of view that works. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and if them in really they have such a weird shape,
Speaker 2: that's so funny.
Speaker 1: But between albums, what do you guys, you guys sending
Speaker 1: ideas back and forth, are you guys thinking about what
Speaker 1: could another album be or just for the life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're living the life, and we don't we don't
Speaker 2: walk until we walk until we decide to work. But
Speaker 2: because one neighbors and and and uh, and we don't
Speaker 2: stop seeing each other when we don't work. We yeah,
Speaker 2: there's always some thing, some kind of exchange, like listen
Speaker 2: to this or look at this cover and watch this film.
Speaker 2: So there's already this ongoing conversation and we say, little
Speaker 2: what could be our next our next record? And when
Speaker 2: we feel that we're already we were just like meeting
Speaker 2: the studio every day and start walking here.
Speaker 1: And how do you so in does just one just
Speaker 1: proposed the other, like let's say, let's meetings, like let's
Speaker 1: go to the studio next week, or I mean, do
Speaker 1: you both have to feel like you have the.
Speaker 2: Natural we know it, Yeah, we feel when it's when
Speaker 2: it's ready and and and then we we naturally start
Speaker 2: to meet at the studio and we we we yeah,
Speaker 2: we both know, and let's start next week.
Speaker 1: When you started justice album, when you're in the beginning
Speaker 1: stages of it, how do are things pretty in place
Speaker 1: already or or does it you have to search for
Speaker 1: you have to search for something in the studio, you
Speaker 1: have to find what you're hearing in your head. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, Now there's a lot of research, like like like
Speaker 2: on this album, we spent like months doing research and
Speaker 2: development before we finally started like writing the first tunes
Speaker 2: the R and D Yeah for real. Uh. We did
Speaker 2: R and D both in the analog world and in
Speaker 2: the digital world, but more in the digital because we
Speaker 2: are more interested in that. And uh. And the thing
Speaker 2: is that when you do this research, you can't help
Speaker 2: but like starting like shaping some like ideas that can
Speaker 2: become songs later and some of them that we that
Speaker 2: we used and uh. And once the shape, once the
Speaker 2: ideas were like translating in something that felt good for us,
Speaker 2: then we started to write songs.
Speaker 1: Wow, And so what are the what is the R
Speaker 1: and D?
Speaker 2: How is that?
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: Border? Is R and D for justice, but it's it's
Speaker 2: as sexy as R and D is any other department,
Speaker 2: which is not at all. We just spend days like
Speaker 2: nerding out on on things and twigging them until we
Speaker 2: find ways of making things sound in a way that
Speaker 2: we like. And we already had the idea of making
Speaker 2: something that was more loop based, but at the same
Speaker 2: time we're thinking, okay, like like we like the idea
Speaker 2: of flu based music, but we can't listen to loup
Speaker 2: based music because it's boring so to us, So how
Speaker 2: can we make it so that's like, that's exciting and
Speaker 2: that's constantly evolving. And so this is when we came
Speaker 2: up with like this thing of like maybe we can
Speaker 2: do one loop and then we take the exact same
Speaker 2: loop and we make it with all different instruments. And
Speaker 2: for example, INCOGNITOI is like this, and there's like a
Speaker 2: lot of or something one night or Night is like that.
Speaker 2: The disco part in the middle is exactly the same
Speaker 2: as the rave part, but one is made only with
Speaker 2: synthesizers and the other one is made only with like drums,
Speaker 2: bass and guitar and it. And it was like, okay,
Speaker 2: like so this album could sound like if we had
Speaker 2: the switch on our board of time travel switch Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're like techno disco and so it's exactly the
Speaker 2: same music but being like made made in very different ways.
Speaker 2: And so we're like, okay, that's one simple way. Technically
Speaker 2: it's not simple because you have to re record everything. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's a simple way of making something Bok based exciting,
Speaker 2: exciting because it's the same loop, but everything is different
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: You have to try to case find a way that
Speaker 1: maybe maybe or maybe not tastefully like hit the switch,
Speaker 1: you know, how how do you go from raved to
Speaker 1: disco and make it actually work, you know on a
Speaker 1: record especially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But and for this we were like really treating
Speaker 2: them as defunt songs. So the disco Paths, we would
Speaker 2: make a session for it and recorded, produce it, mix it.
Speaker 2: Then we would do the same with electronic parts, and
Speaker 2: then only at the end, during the editing phase, we
Speaker 2: would put them together once they were like mixed and everything.
Speaker 2: At some point where we almost thought for the disco Paths,
Speaker 2: we're gonna mix them, master them, print them on the vinyl,
Speaker 2: then record them, then reintegrate them, and are like, fuck,
Speaker 2: it's too complicated. And also because we didn't want them
Speaker 2: to sound to retro. We wanted them to be a
Speaker 2: disco but disco of today, yeah, and not to sound
Speaker 2: like seventies disco. We wanted everything to sound modern.
Speaker 1: Going back to so you guys two, when you guys
Speaker 1: major album or didn't you guys turned down a tour
Speaker 1: with that plan, didn't you.
Speaker 2: On the first album? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, what was? What was? Why was?
Speaker 2: But but because we we uh we used to be
Speaker 2: compelled a lot to them, and and we thought it
Speaker 2: was better, a better move to do smaller things but
Speaker 2: our own thing, rather than opening for for them. And
Speaker 2: uh and yeah, we think it was the right move
Speaker 2: to to do. We we love them and that's not
Speaker 2: the problem at all. You know, we're very happy that
Speaker 2: they would propose us, but it was a better move
Speaker 2: for us to just go sideways.
Speaker 1: Did they ever here and in your early stuff? And
Speaker 1: did you ever get any feedback from like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we like it? Did you did you even know were
Speaker 1: you around them at that point like to even know that?
Speaker 2: Or yeah, yeah like like like like Toma, I think
Speaker 2: it did like some sort of pre mastering on two
Speaker 2: of the very early remixes that we did, but I
Speaker 2: can't remember for which tracks.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like very helpful and welcoming, very yeah, very like
Speaker 2: both of them are very very cool guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. The fire that was how did that happen?
Speaker 2: We Yeah, we wanted to make a video and the
Speaker 2: basic pitch was, was we lack the visual of of
Speaker 2: a mirror car being washed and h and we're like, okay,
Speaker 2: how about if we instead of making like girls washing
Speaker 2: a car, it could be us washing a car for
Speaker 2: a girl or woman like to drive it then, because
Speaker 2: none of us has a driving license, And we started thinking, okay,
Speaker 2: who would be the best woman to drive this car?
Speaker 2: And were like Susan Sundon of course, because we like
Speaker 2: for many reasons, like she she was our first choice
Speaker 2: and and uh and we got in touch and weird enough,
Speaker 2: she said okay, let's let's do it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a hard pitch, It wasn't hard to get ian.
Speaker 2: We got very lucky. But but I think like her
Speaker 2: son was aware of our music, so he said like, yeah, mom,
Speaker 2: you should do this. It's cool. Yeah. So he helped
Speaker 2: a lot. Yea. He told her they're cool, do it
Speaker 2: because we were one of the first show he ever
Speaker 2: went to. So yeah, thank you Jack, because that's his name.
Speaker 1: You were one of the first shows we ever went to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh wow.
Speaker 2: Cool And and she was yeah, she's she was so
Speaker 2: cool and she's like so good. Ruse, she was perfect.
Speaker 1: Does that? I love cars? I'm not really I know
Speaker 1: too much about him does that car exist? Is that
Speaker 1: a real call?
Speaker 2: I think car that we we pimped. Yeah, we pimped
Speaker 2: and and at some point we we gave it to
Speaker 2: Mac DeMarco, but I guess he the paperwork didn't get done,
Speaker 2: so yeah, yeah we made him like in French, it's
Speaker 2: called the poisonous present, so we gave him the carter.
Speaker 2: But but it's yeah, I think it's such a terrible
Speaker 2: present because it's not allowed. It's illegal to drive it
Speaker 2: because it's mild so you can't see it. It's like
Speaker 2: actually dangerous to drive a car like it's an old car.
Speaker 2: The PaperWorks so sorry, I sawry mac.
Speaker 1: So just said and grass.
Speaker 2: Or maybe you don't kid some well have no idea
Speaker 2: what what you don't need it?
Speaker 1: That's amazing cool. Well, thanks so much for making the
Speaker 1: time to do this. Thanks thanks for having its great
Speaker 1: have fun, less your time. In la you an episode description,
Speaker 1: you'll find a link to some of our favorite Justice tracks,
Speaker 1: as well as songs and artists referenced in today's episode
Speaker 1: and again. To see the video version of this episode,
Speaker 1: visit YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record pod.
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing
Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is
Speaker 1: Ben Holliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
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Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm just Enrichment.