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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is John Batiste. John, last night you

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Speaker 1: played Redrocks. Tell me about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, you know, riding along in my automobile, my

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Speaker 2: baby besigned me after wheel Man.

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Speaker 3: I sunk so hard I lost my voice to people

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Speaker 3: were stomp It was two hours and forty one minutes

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Speaker 3: of a performance.

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Speaker 2: I don't even call it a performance.

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Speaker 3: It's a spiritual practice, celebration of life, love, joy music.

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Speaker 2: I mean we played.

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Speaker 3: So much that I lost track of even where I

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Speaker 3: was and what was going on.

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Speaker 2: That it was a concert.

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Speaker 3: The band was on just the band was on eleven,

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Speaker 3: and we had Steve Jordan, Pedrito Martinez and a few

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Speaker 3: other special guests, Nick Waterhouse Andrew Day. So it was

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Speaker 3: it just felt like a true zenith moment. And this

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Speaker 3: is just the beginning of the tour. So I'm very

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Speaker 3: excited to continue.

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Speaker 1: You say two hours and forty one minutes, so you time.

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Speaker 2: It exactly, No, but someone on my team does.

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Speaker 3: And it came to me afterwards, and you know, this

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Speaker 3: is after showing me photographs of the security at Red

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Speaker 3: Rocks who were becoming one with the audience and showing

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Speaker 3: me photos of the staff and videos of the staff.

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Speaker 3: Just celebrated and danced, and we jumped off the stage

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Speaker 3: at one point, and we were in the audience for

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Speaker 3: about thirty minutes playing. And then after that, when I

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Speaker 3: kind of came down, my key hour comes to me.

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Speaker 3: She says, do you know how long you played just now?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, well, it felt like the normal

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Speaker 3: set length, but how long was it? She said it

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Speaker 3: was two hours and forty one minutes, and that's not

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Speaker 3: counting the encore, so it just was. I mean, those

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Speaker 3: are the kind of things that happened. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: in the church.

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Speaker 2: They say, we got to tarry here for a while.

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Speaker 1: Had you played Red Rocks before?

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Speaker 3: No, that was my first time playing, first time planing,

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Speaker 3: and I just I've heard so many great stories. It's

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Speaker 3: hard to describe what it's like on that stage until

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Speaker 3: you're on the stage. So now I have this first

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Speaker 3: hand experience that it's just it's really a sacred zone

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Speaker 3: for music making. It's a cathedral and ancient cathedral of music,

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Speaker 3: and you feel that sort of presence when you're there.

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Speaker 3: There were moments where I would just play in the

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Speaker 3: context which you wouldn't recital, you know, just solo piano

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Speaker 3: and I would be playing, and you could just hear

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Speaker 3: the resonance of the space, and you could feel the

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Speaker 3: way that it all just works in the divine alignment,

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Speaker 3: and there's nothing that beats God's design. There's just such

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Speaker 3: a special resonance in the frequency. You know how they

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Speaker 3: say that the overtone series, the harmonic series. If you

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Speaker 3: listen to water, or if you listen to the lowest

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Speaker 3: note on the piano, you can hear the entire infinite

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Speaker 3: harmonic series that makes up the Western Canada music, well

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Speaker 3: tempered music, and it's in nature. I really experienced that

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Speaker 3: last night for maybe the first time in my life,

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Speaker 3: playing a solo piano segment of the show, where you

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Speaker 3: could hear the resonance of our well tempered system in

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Speaker 3: action with nature ecologically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you played a million different venues. A lot of

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Speaker 1: them are just true aditional concert halls. Are there other

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Speaker 1: venues that have turned into transcendent experiences or somewhat different?

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Speaker 3: Bob, That's what I'm in the business of, that matter

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Speaker 3: what I'm playing, what I'm in the business is doing

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Speaker 3: is creating an experience that transcends the space and the

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Speaker 3: time in the moment that we're in, so that this

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Speaker 3: music really is used for what.

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Speaker 2: It's made for. It's more than entertainment. It's a spiritual practice.

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Speaker 3: Music was a part of the fabric of everyday life

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Speaker 3: for many communities at the beginning of time, since the

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Speaker 3: first drum in Africa, the passing of the fiddle and Appalachia.

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Speaker 3: I mean, just think about all of the different ways

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Speaker 3: in New Orleans that music is still a.

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Speaker 2: Part of the fabric of everyday life.

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Speaker 3: Music for when people are born, music for when people

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Speaker 3: pass away into the next round. There's just such a

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Speaker 3: special power that music has, and I truly feel blessed

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Speaker 3: to be a joy bringer in music, not just with

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Speaker 3: skill and craft. Sense of craft is never lost in

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Speaker 3: that experience. But you know, I mean, I just remember

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Speaker 3: playing in all manner of venue and having this sort

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Speaker 3: of transcendent experience bubble up from the beginning of the

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Speaker 3: concert and by the end of it we're all family.

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Speaker 1: Okay. You talk about a long history of music through

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Speaker 1: the time of man. In your lifetime, have you seen

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Speaker 1: a change in the perception of music, the kind of

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Speaker 1: music or you just think the ball keeps rolling.

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Speaker 2: Well I think that more and more the music industry

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Speaker 2: is is with.

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Speaker 3: And this is with many great exceptions. I don't say

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Speaker 3: this as a blanket statement, but the music industry is

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Speaker 3: more controlled and operated and even inhabited by folks who

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Speaker 3: don't really care about music making. There are those who

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Speaker 3: still care about music making and still care about the

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Speaker 3: idea of what music is in the world philosophically, the

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Speaker 3: history and the lineage of music and the traditions being

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Speaker 3: carried forward and added to in the continuum of human creativity.

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Speaker 3: There's a sense of devaluation of the music and there's

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Speaker 3: a sense of creating this sort of pacified audience that

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Speaker 3: I believe is a mark of a lot of the

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Speaker 3: governmental peril that we see in this time and a

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Speaker 3: mark of where we are in the world in terms

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Speaker 3: of how opaying information has become and how there's a

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Speaker 3: sense of not always knowing if someone has been compromised,

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Speaker 3: when in most cases for generations, these are trusted so

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Speaker 3: trusted voices and a lot of things have been compromised

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Speaker 3: as of late, So we're in this age where there's

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Speaker 3: a post truth resonance, and I believe that that directly

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Speaker 3: is impacting the arts and the creative communities. And it's

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Speaker 3: why the real musicians, the real artists, the ones who

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Speaker 3: really understand the power of what we do, will rage

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Speaker 3: against it. You saw a similar thing happen in the

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Speaker 3: sixties and seventies, and hopefully there'll be a consensus amongst

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Speaker 3: artists to continue to come together in this time in

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Speaker 3: a similar way.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the sixties. In the sixties,

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Speaker 1: it was really the youth versus the elders. We had

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Speaker 1: the war in Vietnam and the draft, and we had

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Speaker 1: ubiquitous top forty radio such as if you had a

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Speaker 1: that said something, everyone heard it. Other than Trump, no

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Speaker 1: one can reach everybody. So in addition, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are afraid of pissing off Trump. In the consequences,

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Speaker 1: there are people who are afraid to speak up, take

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Speaker 1: a stand, and then there are people who see themselves

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Speaker 1: as brands and don't want to sacrifice a dollar. Now,

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Speaker 1: there's certainly people like you, But this movement you taught me,

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Speaker 1: you certainly set the landscape. Is it something you already

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Speaker 1: see or is something going to change? What has to change?

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Speaker 2: It's always people power, people power, is it? Man?

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Speaker 3: I'm really someone who sees my artistry as of the

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Speaker 3: people and photo people and with the people, And that's

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Speaker 3: really a true statement of what this movement has to be.

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Speaker 3: It can't be from the top down. It has to

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Speaker 3: be from the dirt. And that means that you have

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Speaker 3: to motivate people to understand that we are being duped

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Speaker 3: and bamboozled. You have to get people to a place

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Speaker 3: where they feel a motivation and a conviction too to

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Speaker 3: use the powers that they have and the band together

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Speaker 3: and use the voice of the collective community to say something.

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Speaker 3: And that's something that's difficult to do in this time

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Speaker 3: because again we're there's so many things that have segmented

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Speaker 3: society and amplified a minority's voice as the majority.

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Speaker 2: So when you have that happen, there's this sort of.

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Speaker 3: That that there's a mirage of of of.

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Speaker 2: Insight and and and and you can't really know what's real.

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Speaker 3: So in the sixties, when you just just you just

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Speaker 3: laid out the design of how the delivery systems of

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Speaker 3: music and me right today you said that.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's only Trump that can reach everybody.

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Speaker 3: Now I'll add to that, there's also so many people

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Speaker 3: who have a voice and have cultivated a community, whether

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Speaker 3: it be the dark Web, whether it be all of

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Speaker 3: these other toxic spaces that exist. And that's become something

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Speaker 3: that the mainstream media has not only begin to address,

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Speaker 3: but in some cases even adopt. And this has created

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Speaker 3: this sort of narrative where it can only come from

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Speaker 3: people face to face. It can only go back to

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Speaker 3: the natural person to person communication, localized community activism and

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Speaker 3: engagement artists making music and speaking to the things that

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Speaker 3: are around them.

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Speaker 2: Another things saying to church, take care.

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Speaker 3: Of demons in your range, that people have to become

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Speaker 3: become social again in the context of person to person

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Speaker 3: communication outside of the bounds of the Internet and outside

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Speaker 3: of the bounds of artificial intelligence. And nothing's wrong with

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Speaker 3: those things, per se. But when we lose the ability

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Speaker 3: to see each other and now we're only seeing groups

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Speaker 3: and isms and categories, it leaves us in this state

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Speaker 3: of disarray.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what can a musician do to effect change, combat

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Speaker 1: the past and move us to this place you said

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Speaker 1: we should be in.

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Speaker 3: Music is the most powerful force on God's green eer, Bob,

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Speaker 3: let me tell you what music can do.

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Speaker 2: Music.

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Speaker 3: Last night we went in Red Rose, ten thousand people

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Speaker 3: singing as to clapping against it. They don't know each other,

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Speaker 3: they left as family. If artists make true music and

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Speaker 3: speak from a place of authenticity and perform from a

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Speaker 3: place of excellence, that is something that goes beyond technique,

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Speaker 3: goes beyond study. It's just a place where it becomes

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Speaker 3: a voice of the creator coming through the vessel of

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Speaker 3: the musician. And that's what I believe musicians can do

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Speaker 3: is be great, truly great, not great and branding not great,

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Speaker 3: CEOs truly great because when people see that, and people

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Speaker 3: experience that, something in their soul opens up, something in

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Speaker 3: their heart becomes less hardened. There's an ability then for

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Speaker 3: there to be a true dialogue that's rooted in humanity.

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Speaker 3: My band for many years and still at times i'll

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Speaker 3: play with this band, it's called Stay Human and my

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Speaker 3: music for many years since I was in college, I

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Speaker 3: started to call it social music for lack of figuring

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Speaker 3: out there was a better genre title for it, and

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Speaker 3: thinking about all that, I'm just seeing the power of

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Speaker 3: music more and more, learning that we can speak to

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Speaker 3: people on a real, authentic wavelength, and then that allows

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Speaker 3: for us to have conversations about other things.

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Speaker 2: But first it starts with us being great.

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Speaker 3: You saw this in many, many times in history where artists,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Bob Marley or Lewis Armstrong and Nina some

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Speaker 3: own not just their voice and their perspective on things,

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Speaker 3: but their excellence coupled with their perspective on things moved people,

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Speaker 3: moved mountains. Maybe of Staples pop state of Staples singers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I could go on and on. Man.

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Speaker 3: Even before that the way that we use, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was I was able to have a relationship with

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Speaker 3: Congressman John Lewis before he passed, and he talked about

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Speaker 3: the times when they were marching and they would break

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Speaker 3: into song and what the songs meant and what the

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Speaker 3: act of singing together meant in those moments. And they

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Speaker 3: weren't professional musicians striving for excellence in the craft. But

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Speaker 3: this is what our musicians left us. They left us

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Speaker 3: with these superpowers. They left us with all of these gifts,

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Speaker 3: and we're not using them to the fullest of our ability.

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Speaker 3: We're using them for scale in capitalism and to make

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Speaker 3: money and to and to dupe our youth into this

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Speaker 3: sort of full sexual revolution, full in the in in

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Speaker 3: identity that this fake identity of this generation gap that's

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Speaker 3: a perceived generation gap when we should actually be all

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Speaker 3: connected across the generations. There's so many things that we've

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Speaker 3: been duped to believe through music that's been engineered to

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Speaker 3: bamboozle us and to confuse us. So I believe that

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Speaker 3: if we just used music for what it actually is

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Speaker 3: and for what it actually can do, and we did

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Speaker 3: it at scale, in the same way we're doing this

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Speaker 3: other stuff at scale, then.

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Speaker 2: It would change so much of the ethos of our time.

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Speaker 1: That's very interesting because then it becomes less about a

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Speaker 1: specific song and more about the performance and outlook. But

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Speaker 1: in any event, you're playing to this large audience of

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Speaker 1: thousands last night. Who is John Batiste's audience.

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Speaker 3: You know, my audience, which is an audience I'm very

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Speaker 3: proud of, is made up of lots of families. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who I tell you one story,

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Speaker 3: I was in Indiana. My first tour was last year,

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Speaker 3: and this is my second tour. I've had a very

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Speaker 3: unusual career path, if you want to call it a career,

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Speaker 3: I don't really like that word. But just in general,

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Speaker 3: you know, I feel like I'm humbled to serve people

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Speaker 3: through my music. And I'm humbled to be born into

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Speaker 3: this cultural inheritance of New Orleans music and New Orleans

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Speaker 3: musical families, and I take it very seriously to carry

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Speaker 3: on the tradition of that. So that are those who

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Speaker 3: are into that and know that New Orleans lineage and

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Speaker 3: have followed that that are in my audience.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who, you know, I learned

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Speaker 2: this in Indiana.

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Speaker 3: There's a four generations of a family that came out

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Speaker 3: and the eldest grandmother comes to me and says, I

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Speaker 3: saw Elvis and you and Alvis are my favorite artists

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Speaker 3: of all time.

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Speaker 2: I've been waiting for you now.

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Speaker 3: Usually people are looking for the coveted demographic of the

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Speaker 3: eighteen to twenty five or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know that, and they are there too.

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Speaker 3: But I'm great, full, for the grateful for the the

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Speaker 3: folks who see me and it reminds them of a

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Speaker 3: time or an artist or a meaningful cultural treasure, a

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Speaker 3: meaningful era where we were creating at our highest and

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Speaker 3: representing the best ideals of who we are in the arts.

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Speaker 3: And then there's a lot of kids who were coming

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Speaker 3: up musicians, A lot of young musicians in the audience

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Speaker 3: who are you know, they're just starting their journey. There's

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Speaker 3: so many kids that resonate with my music. Also, now

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Speaker 3: that's the other side of the spectrum.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of aid and under.

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Speaker 3: So there's families, there's a lot of older folks. There's

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Speaker 3: people who love New Orleans music. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: people who are looking for an alternative to contemporary pop music,

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Speaker 3: which I'm also proud to represent bringing a lot of

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Speaker 3: sounds and music into the popular music space without being

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Speaker 3: a pop artist. But then there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: young musicians who are there and kids who are not musicians,

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Speaker 3: but something in the music resonates with them, which I'm

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Speaker 3: also very proud of. They're like, I don't know, there's

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Speaker 3: something in the frequency of the sound that makes it

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Speaker 3: feel like it's for them. And I've done things that

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Speaker 3: are just for kids when I was doing the stuff

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Speaker 3: I did with Pixar and things like that, but my

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Speaker 3: albums in particular, I'm always grateful to see the folks

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Speaker 3: reach out or the concert tickets go to kids, and

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Speaker 3: people online sending videos of their kid dancing to the music.

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Speaker 3: My kid decided he wanted to play piano because he

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Speaker 3: saw your concert or a lot of first concert goers

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Speaker 3: I get in the audience. So, yeah, that's a good blend.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot of it's a lot of range. Man,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what to say.

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Speaker 1: Okay, And what about black, white, Latino, red blue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of people in the audience from

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Speaker 3: all races, depending on where we go and where we play,

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Speaker 3: you know. I love the fact that we'll play at

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Speaker 3: Coachella and it'll be one audience, and it'll be predominantly

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Speaker 3: younger people of people who are into the contemporary music scene.

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Speaker 3: Then we played before Red Rocks, we played in Veil

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Speaker 3: and it was upper middle class white folks wearing Patagonia.

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Speaker 2: I like to call it Padagucci. All right, No, No, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Just no, that's a good name. I know, zackly D.

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Speaker 1: I just never heard Padagucci before. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, and then I'll play in the South, like when

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Speaker 3: we played in Atlanta, or play in New Orleans, or

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Speaker 3: I'll play I'll play places where and this isn't the norm,

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Speaker 3: but if I go there, it's mostly black folks. And

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Speaker 3: and I love the fact that my community supports me

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Speaker 3: because I'm not a rapper and I'm not an R

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Speaker 3: and B singer. And we don't have a a archetype

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Speaker 3: in contemporary culture for the musician star.

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Speaker 2: That's not something that exists anymore.

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Speaker 3: The musician star and the band leader right absolutely most

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Speaker 3: of the time. Because of the way that we've been

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Speaker 3: they've tried to program us and to separate us. The

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Speaker 3: way that capitalism has created these genre categories is so

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Speaker 3: that it can be segregated. It started off based on

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Speaker 3: race records. Chuck Berry, to me is one of my

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Speaker 3: top five influence of all time, all of the race records.

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Speaker 3: I won't go into that as the tangent. I'm liable

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Speaker 3: to go on tangents, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Now, No, the tangents are the best part. Digression is

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Speaker 1: a spice of life. Go off, fund your tangent as

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Speaker 1: much as you want.

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Speaker 3: But I'm thinking about how you know, our contemporary black community.

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Speaker 3: Our people are now programmed to think that music that's

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Speaker 3: for them has to come from the voice of a

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Speaker 3: rapper or an R and B singer in the contemporary

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Speaker 3: milieu of R and B. And I'm very proud that

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Speaker 3: over the years of building my audience, I've been able

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Speaker 3: to cultivate, specifically in the South, in the Southeast, a

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Speaker 3: community of people of color, Black, a black community, a

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Speaker 3: black audience that is listening to music that sometimes we

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Speaker 3: will play songs from the forties and fifties.

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Speaker 2: On the show.

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Speaker 3: We just last night did a Chuck Berry medley, as

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Speaker 3: I was saying, Then we went to Fast Domino. Then

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Speaker 3: we went into Duke Ellington and we played things ain't

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Speaker 3: what they used to be. We played don't mean to

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Speaker 3: think if it ain't got that swing into about one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty VP chopping wood swing that you would

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Speaker 3: hit basic play right. So this is not what my

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00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 3: community is acculturated into twenty six to listen to. Yet

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Speaker 3: it's what we were the pioneers of. And this is

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Speaker 3: the this is part of the mass deception that that's

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Speaker 3: happened in the way that we've spoiled our music and

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Speaker 3: thus the lineage of how we understand the music and

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Speaker 3: what's for us versus what's not for us? And I

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Speaker 3: say this to say everything is for everyone. Music is

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Speaker 3: the universal language. It exists so that it can break

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Speaker 3: down barriers. Yet because of this sort of this this

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Speaker 3: this psychological warfare that we've been dealing with in a

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Speaker 3: way that branding has overtaken actual craft and history and

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Speaker 3: lineage and the idea of the thing has become greater

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Speaker 3: than the thing itself.

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Speaker 2: People believe that, oh, this is only for me, and

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't even.

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Speaker 3: Consider this over here, this whole world over here, because

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Speaker 3: it hasn't been in my orbit. It hasn't been service

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Speaker 3: to me. And I'm a proud disruptor of that. I

359
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 3: rage against that, and I love when I can have

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Speaker 3: in the audience.

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Speaker 2: This sort of experience where.

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Speaker 3: People now and this is taken close to twenty years.

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Speaker 3: I started when I was fifteen, and I'll go out.

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Speaker 3: We did a show in London and it was a

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Speaker 3: Royal Festival Hall and you know, it's about three thousand,

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Speaker 3: three to four thousand people you see in the audience,

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Speaker 3: and it was all different demographics. And I love that

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Speaker 3: because it was me solo piano in Europe, a black

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Speaker 3: pianist playing in a classical music milieu in a concert

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Speaker 3: hall for a wide range of an audience unheard of.

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Speaker 3: I love that that happened. And the reason I bring

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Speaker 3: it up is because the thing happened to the concerts.

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Speaker 3: To illustrate that is, at one point, as an improptu movement,

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Speaker 3: I played a version of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah, and then

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Speaker 3: I melded that into Tupac's changes and you could hear

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Speaker 3: the different parts of the audience reacting, and then you could.

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Speaker 2: See from the response after the concert.

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Speaker 3: The thought that those two things could be next to

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Speaker 3: each other, and these two poets could speak to each

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Speaker 3: other across time, and the relationship between that being displayed

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Speaker 3: just in a bare form in this way, coming from

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Speaker 3: the vessel of a guy who looks like me with dreads.

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Speaker 3: It really struck a lot of people, and that was

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Speaker 3: one of the highlights of that concert w when you

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Speaker 3: can see the people were responding to afterwards, and it

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Speaker 3: just struck me as, Oh, this is my role, this

387
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: is what I do in culture, this is who I am.

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Speaker 3: I'm here to kind of we finally this time, because

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Speaker 3: of technology and internet, all of these different things, we

390
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 3: can bring things together and synthesize things that have never

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Speaker 3: been put together before. Nothing is new under the sun,

392
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Speaker 3: but we can take elements and build something out of

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Speaker 3: these elements that the pioneers have left us. And that's

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Speaker 3: our form of being pioneers in this time, and to

395
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Speaker 3: really use the power and not forget what we have inherited,

396
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Speaker 3: So I'll say that to say my audience is diverse

397
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Speaker 3: by design, but I'm still on the path of developing that,

398
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: and it's been a very intentional, developmental process to focus

399
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: on one element at a time. I was a jazz

400
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: pianist for many years only, and I faced the world

401
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 3: as that. Then I became sort of like a band

402
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Speaker 3: leader for a while. Then I faced the world as that.

403
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: I became an artist and even step my toe in

404
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 3: pop music, and I face the world as that, and

405
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 3: a film composer, and I face the world is that

406
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 3: all as a way of trying to create a universal

407
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 3: musical experience that is contemporary and that everybody who walks

408
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 3: into that venue can have something that when they hear it,

409
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: they see something that they didn't even know about the

410
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 3: stuff they loved, and they develop a sense of what

411
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: music can be and what it truly is meant to be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about the evolution jazz, being leader, working

413
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: with Pixar, etc. Are you just wandering through life and

414
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Speaker 1: opportunities come, or do you have more of a plan

415
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: or do you have a just an inner feeling like

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Speaker 1: you know, I want more than this.

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Speaker 3: I'm you asking some good questions, man, you know, and

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00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 3: you're catching me at a very My voice is like

419
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: an octave lower because I've been singing all week, and

420
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: like I'm at a very vulnerable place.

421
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: So you're getting some very real candid answers, Bob. But

422
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: I tell you.

423
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Speaker 3: I I want more, and I oftentimes struggle with and

424
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Speaker 3: not because I'm not abundantly blessed and haven't had the

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00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: opportunity to do stuff that even those in the lineage

426
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 3: who I stand on the shoulders up didn't have a

427
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 3: chance to do.

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Speaker 2: And I understand that, and I'm grateful for that.

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Speaker 3: But when I see what's happening to music, and when

430
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: I see what's happening to culture and ultimately what's happening

431
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 3: to people, I really want more. I want to do

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Speaker 3: more to disrupt that, to shift it, to change it.

433
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Speaker 3: And I feel like I'm just getting started. And i

434
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: feel like I've never fit into the patterns of the industry,

435
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: of labels, of any of that stuff. And I've constantly

436
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 3: felt like I've had to find ways to be disrupted

437
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 3: from the inside and to shift gears and to get

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00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 3: into a position and then to figure out a way

439
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 3: to bridge it to the thing that I know is

440
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: the realest, most authentic way that you could have at

441
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 3: least for me, that John Batist could impact that moment,

442
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 3: in that situation, in that project, in that role. But

443
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: I feel like I need to exist within a context

444
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 3: of my own design, and I have to build something

445
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: that allows for me to fully utilize all the capabilities

446
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: that I've been given. And once I have that, whatever

447
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: this apparatus is, whatever this thing is, then you'll really

448
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: get to see the full color scheme and spectrum of

449
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: what it is that I've been blessed to give to

450
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: the world. And until then, I'm just fighting my way

451
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: through and doing the best that i can with all

452
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: the blessings that I've been given.

453
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: Okay, now more than ever, their acts playing Madison Square

454
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: Garden that most people have never heard of, their acts

455
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: playing stadiums that are niche. There's a Queen song, I

456
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: want it all, I want it all, I want it all,

457
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: and I want it now. There are people with billions

458
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: of streams on Spotify. You don't have billions? Are you

459
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: happy growing your niche? Or really, I don't want to

460
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: make it about ego career, you know, let's not even

461
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: give that. But you have a message, you have a

462
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: feeling inside, you have a burning desire to reach many

463
00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: more people.

464
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: No, I have a burning desire to be great.

465
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: When I listen to Ray Charles, who, by the way,

466
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: doesn't have billions of streams. Ray Charles is truly great,

467
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: full stop. Lewis Armstrong, Nina Simone truly great, truly great,

468
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: Joni Mitchell, truly great. Some of my contemporaries who I

469
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: know are truly great. You know, I'm talking about people

470
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: who I don't know what their streams are or how

471
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: many people they reach, but I do know what they

472
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: make is one of one.

473
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: Could you give me a couple examples.

474
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about people like Sullivan Fortner, a pianist and

475
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: vocalist who I grew up with, or Caroline Shaw, who's

476
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: a contemporary composer of my late mental Kid Jordan, who

477
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: was an avant garde composed I'm truly another thing that that,

478
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: you know, my early tradition in New Orleans was actually

479
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: something that is is you may not necessarily think is

480
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: associated with New Orleans, But I grew up in a

481
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: in a community where I was learning from avant garde

482
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: contemporary classical musicians like Kid Jordan and Alvin Baptiste and

483
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: jazz musicians who were also a part of that community,

484
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: like Ellis Marsalis. So you know, I wasn't learning traditional

485
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: New Orleans music first. I was learning the avant garde.

486
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: So that's always like a foundational element of what it

487
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: is that I'm doing contemporary classical music, which was a

488
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: part of their their their pedagogy. So but it was

489
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: very hood. It was like the hood version. Like it

490
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: was like we would learn scores, sometimes without the music,

491
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: and it would be twenty page long score. Your part

492
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: would be twenty pages, and we would spend a week

493
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 3: with him dictating it like a grio, like an oral tradition,

494
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 3: your part on an instrument that's not your instrument, like

495
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 3: Alvin would be playing the clarinet to.

496
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: You, and it would be, oh, let me interpret.

497
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: Oh that's the harmony he means, he outlined, he appregiated

498
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: the harmony. Oh this is the melody that I need

499
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: to play. Oh in my left hand. You want that

500
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 3: left so he'll tell you. So then it would become

501
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: such a part of your system, your bones, it'd be

502
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 3: in you once you learned it. And those were my

503
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: first experiences. I learned how to do that before I

504
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 3: learned how to read music. I didn't even learn how

505
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: to read music until I was I found a way

506
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: to get into Julliard without knowing how to read music.

507
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: They put the sheet music in front of me in

508
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: the audition. Quick story, tangent. I'm sorry, I'm prone to

509
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: do this, but they put the sheet music from me

510
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: in the audition, and I just played and I was

511
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 3: looking at it might have been upside down, who knows,

512
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: but I just played improvised. And then after about a minute,

513
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: I stopped and I look at the panel of the

514
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: audition judges, like American Idol panel or something, and they're

515
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: just looking in there.

516
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: It's like a pregnant pause.

517
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: And then after this pause, they say, mister Baptiste, if

518
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 3: you got an opportunity that would take you out of school,

519
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: would you take it or would you continue your studies?

520
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: And I looked at.

521
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: Him and I said, even sixteen years old, I started

522
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: school when I was seventeen, at Juilliard, so I'm like

523
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: already very aware of the politics of the situation.

524
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: Even at seventeen.

525
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: I say, well, if I could take the opportunity and

526
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: continue my studies, then I would take the opportunity. And

527
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 3: that was the last question of the audition, and I

528
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: left and I got in the rest.

529
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 2: Obviously it's history. I went to Julia. But I'm saying

530
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: that to say.

531
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: I have been fortunate to be around those who early

532
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: on gave me a barometer of what true greatness is.

533
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 3: What is truly great is not a matter of the

534
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 3: taste of the trends of our time. And for me,

535
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: I know that's truly great stands the test of time.

536
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: So in terms of your audience question, it will reach

537
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 3: people who who seek that out and it will sustain

538
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: itself in the same way that Moza discovered the scores

539
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: of Bach. Okay, Bach is not only truly great. Between

540
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 3: Bac and Duke Ellington, you have two people who maybe

541
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: are the greatest at a thing that anybody has ever

542
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: been at, doing a thing outside of just music, full stop.

543
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: Okay.

544
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 3: Now do people listen to that music every day? Is

545
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: that filling concert halls or symphony orchestra struggling. Gustavo Dudamel

546
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: is a friend of mine. He's one of the foremost

547
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: the conductor's voices in classical music.

548
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: We talk about this all the time.

549
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 3: How do you program a concert in twenty twenty five

550
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: of classical music.

551
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just saying this to say.

552
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: The placebo of audience and taste is based on things

553
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: that don't have much, in some cases, anything to do

554
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: with actual music.

555
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: It's more to do with community.

556
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: It's more to do with the aspect of how you

557
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 3: want to cultivate your lifestyle and what things you want

558
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 3: to power that lifestyle within the ecosystem of your community.

559
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: Okay, John, you talk about the next two to five

560
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: years falling out, that's just a figurus speech. That's not

561
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: the plan. I mean, what would have to happen for

562
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: you to go in that direction for.

563
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: That to happen.

564
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: I mean it's a very likely possibility. That's not a

565
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 3: figure of speech. Two to five years is not a

566
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 3: figure of speech, man. It's the thing that keeps me

567
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 3: doing It is experiences like what we had last night

568
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 3: and things that happened when nobody is watching. Or it's

569
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 3: not something you read about an award that I can

570
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 3: win or something like that.

571
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: It's the it's the people.

572
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: Who share the meaning that this music has to them,

573
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: and not just my music, but the music in the

574
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 3: in the culture and the lineage of what I represent

575
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 3: and what it means to have that be represented in

576
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 3: the world, and have it represented in high places of

577
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 3: the world, and have it be in a position to

578
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,439
Speaker 3: even have a conversation with the mainstream of what's going

579
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 3: on that a lot of times is averse to it,

580
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: and that feels like the motivation to stay in. But

581
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 3: then I feel like the I can still impact that

582
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 3: aspect of culture and exist in this in this way

583
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: for those people and for those who don't even know

584
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: that that's what they need. You know, as we proceed

585
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: to give you just what you need. But I can

586
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: do that and not I could retire, or maybe I'll

587
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: take us to bath. Sometimes I think about starting a

588
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 3: creative church or something.

589
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: You know.

590
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, I just don't find it to

591
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: be real enough. There's too much fake stuff. There's too

592
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 3: much bs, there's too much stuff that isn't about.

593
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: What I actually care about.

594
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: Is a distraction from the sort of Mount Everest that

595
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 3: you have to climb to actually be great and then

596
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: to be able to do all of those things and

597
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: exist within the mediums that are now present for artists

598
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 3: to exist in and demands on artists for you to

599
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 3: be active in all of these different ways, just because

600
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: that's where the people are, and that's what the people

601
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 3: have been accustomed to doing, and that's where you're going

602
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 3: to have the most potential impact. Or figuring out some

603
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 3: way to circumvent the systems as they exist to.

604
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: Sort of create this sort of alternate reality.

605
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: But that's still in response to the mammoth mechanics of

606
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 3: the industry today. So then you're kind of still in

607
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 3: relationship to it, you're tethered to it. You have to

608
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: almost become like an alt media system within your own

609
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 3: team and community.

610
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: I just find all of that to be.

611
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: Very very destructive and insidious, especially to those who actually

612
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: are pursuing the things that we're pursuing. So yeah, nothing

613
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: would have to change. It just have to continue to

614
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 3: be what it is or get worse.

615
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: Oh okay, let's break it down. Okay, you're someone who

616
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: make it very simple. You make recordings, you go on

617
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: the road, you do live appearances. Theoretically you could have

618
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: a manager who insulates you. Now, just being a person

619
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: on the planet, if you're online, you have people looking

620
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: for you, people abusing you, people complimenting you. Twenty four

621
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: to seven as you referenced earlier, there are certain places

622
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: where the people are which to a great degree, as

623
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: we speak, is TikTok. So the system is far from perfect.

624
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: You've established that. But once we get above the system,

625
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: what are the elements that are truly bothering you that

626
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: would make you say, man, I'm done?

627
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: What a system? For? One is.

628
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 3: Immoral, and it exploits artists and it exploits people on

629
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: both ends. And anytime that you have a system that's corrupt,

630
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 3: it will just become more and more corrupt, and over

631
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: time it will become something that eats itself and eats

632
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: its own, which is what we're seeing. Music isn't meant

633
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 3: to be as disposable as it's become. It's not meant

634
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 3: to be as homogenized as it's become, not meant to

635
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 3: be as difficult for people to I can go on

636
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: and on. So it's immoral. So let's break it down

637
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: and get simple. Just like you were just saying, let's

638
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 3: make it very simple. It's immoral, and it's very very destructive,

639
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 3: both to the purveyors of the music and the people

640
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: who are out there receiving it. Even though it brings

641
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 3: great joy and creates community and it's celebrating. It's hard

642
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 3: to be the thing that you also decry. It's built

643
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: on a faulty foundation. At this point, now, I'm not

644
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: someone who just makes albums and tours. I'm involved in

645
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 3: a lot of different things without a real understanding of

646
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: how to bring them all together quite yet. And you know,

647
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: there's a lot of opportunities that I have to really

648
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 3: impact humanity outside of just music or using music as

649
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 3: the way in, but also figuring out how to have

650
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 3: a seat at the table in many different philanthropic ways

651
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: in different parts of the world, and existing in burgeoning

652
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: fields that I think there needs to be an artist's

653
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: voice at the table.

654
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: I've had conversations with folks who are in the AI community.

655
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: I've had conversations with folks who are in the tech community.

656
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 2: I've been sort of.

657
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: Courting a relationship with Bill Gates with taken trips to

658
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: Africa together. I don't have a manager. I've been self

659
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 3: managed for a while. I've had a manager before, but

660
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: I think what it is that I do is a

661
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 3: bit too demanding and too wide range for that to

662
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: just be a traditional music manager. Some of the music

663
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: managers that I've worked with, I work with still in

664
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 3: some capacity, and some are friends. But in general, my

665
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: experience is that I'm difficult to manage, and I want

666
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 3: to do more than just tour and make records. This

667
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 3: is only my second tour. I'm thirty eight years old.

668
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: I've been in the industry since i was fifteen. So

669
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 3: I don't think it's as simple as you making it out, Bob.

670
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: But it's the.

671
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 3: Big thing that's simple to me and clear to me

672
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 3: is immoral and things are not built for the good

673
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: of people. And I just want people to feel the

674
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 3: true power of what music is. And I want the

675
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: authentic experience that the music exists in, and the experience

676
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 3: that my community thrives in to be one that's not

677
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 3: trying to fleece them and exploit them.

678
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go to the other side. You talked

679
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: about two to five years. You could say, Hey, I'm

680
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: packing it in. You also said the flip side is

681
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have number one records. So tell me what

682
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: that vision is in your brain? How you achieve that?

683
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: I just don't quit. You know.

684
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 3: The other reason I would I would step out is

685
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: not because I'm quitting. It's because there would be a

686
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 3: better way to get to the people and give the

687
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 3: people the thing that I'm here to give them. And

688
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: it allows for me also to balance the things in

689
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 3: my life, like taking care of my family and being

690
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 3: with my family, my wife, spending time with my soulmate,

691
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 3: being in a world where I can be a human being,

692
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 3: so that the things that I deliver the people are

693
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: coming from a real authentic place, coming from arrested spirit

694
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: and a spirit that's overflowing with inspiration.

695
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: Now, if I stay in it, all of those things

696
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: will remain true. Bob. I'm gonna be inspired. I'm gonna

697
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: be able to.

698
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: Do the things I need to do with my family,

699
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: and I'm going to figure out a way to do

700
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: it within the system, which means you got to get

701
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 3: to the top of the system, or you got to

702
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 3: get to the top of your place in the system.

703
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: I'm in an.

704
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 3: Interesting place because in many ways I'm a new artist

705
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 3: and many people are just discovering me. And in other ways,

706
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 3: I've been doing it for a while. But as I

707
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: said in earlier in our conversation, you know, it's been

708
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: many different chapters, and each one of those chapters was

709
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 3: a first for a lot of people, and a lot

710
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: of those chapters in the world that I existed, they're

711
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 3: separate from the world that I existed in. Subsequent to

712
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: that chapter, just I moved to another world next that's

713
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: completely severed from the world that I just was in.

714
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember having that experience when I

715
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 3: was I had the honor of playing on a tour

716
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 3: backing up Prints once and this was in the days

717
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 3: when I was just known to the world as a

718
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 3: jazz piano player and a jazz trio of my own,

719
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 3: forming and playing with the greats of the jazz community

720
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 3: like Abby Lincoln, Cassandra Wilson and Roy Hargrove and and

721
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 3: and really have an opportunity to play with you know,

722
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: Lewis Hayes who you know, and Curtis Fuller, played with

723
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: John Coltrane, all the all of the great elders at

724
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: that time that I got a chance to play with

725
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: went Marsalis also another another Kenna City.

726
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: Five O four baby.

727
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: But uh, I just remember realizing at that moment when

728
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 3: I stepped into that world and I played with Prince,

729
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, the world is there, and

730
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 3: if you can deliver something of value to them, then

731
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 3: you can create a community around this sort of transaction

732
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: or this sort of exchange I like to call it. Now,

733
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: if you can create these sort of exchange models, this

734
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 3: sort of ratio of exchange with many different communities over

735
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: time and establish a connection between these different communities, and

736
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: then you can build it into something that represents a

737
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 3: common good, a vision of our collective importance to each

738
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: other and the essence of what we're all here to

739
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: be and do on this earth and the time that

740
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: we hear this limited generation of time. If you're able

741
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 3: to do that over time, you'll win, because most people

742
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 3: aren't doing that. Most people are trying to separate people

743
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 3: and create a reality that's based around why you and

744
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 3: your voice it's special and should be heard. And I

745
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: think that's important too, But that's not my call. My

746
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 3: call is to be the unifier. I'm the piper Bob.

747
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 3: That's what I am. And once as soon as I

748
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 3: accepted that, I realized, Okay, well, whatever it is that

749
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 3: I do, it's going to bring people into a room

750
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: that will never in a room together. It's going to

751
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: make people a part of a community together that never

752
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 3: would have thought that they would share a community with

753
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: each other. And I know that, so that's what I do,

754
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 3: and I have the ability to span genres as an

755
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: allegory for that. It's not just an exercise in me

756
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: showing musical snobbery and like, look how great i am.

757
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: Most of the time, I'm reining in my musical technique

758
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 3: in service of this. Most of the time, I don't

759
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: even like people who play with their technique on this leave.

760
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: Unless it's like Sullivan or you know, Jacob.

761
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: Collier, who's another grade of this generation, who you know

762
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 3: doing some very interesting things. But I don't, you know,

763
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 3: I just my thing is is that, and I know

764
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 3: that it's very unique in this.

765
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: Time, and I know who I am in the world,

766
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: and I.

767
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 3: Know that if I were stayed in the space, inevitably

768
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 3: it would reach the point where I'm playing for the

769
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 3: whole world. And I'm already playing for a lot of people.

770
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: So I don't make it sound like I'm I don't

771
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 3: I'm going to sound like I'm slumming it all. I'm ungrateful.

772
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 3: But just to answer your question, what I see for

773
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 3: myself if I stay in the industry, it's to be

774
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 3: the biggest in the world and to bring back the

775
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 3: age of the musician, star, the band leader, the person

776
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 3: who is bringing all forces together on the stage to

777
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 3: show an allegory for humanity as one. And if that's

778
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 3: what I decide to do, mark my words, I will

779
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 3: do it. And anybody who knows me knows that what

780
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: I'm saying is completely one percent serious. But if I

781
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: stick out of it, you know, that's that's great too.

782
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: I don't have a burning ambition to do that or

783
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,479
Speaker 3: to be number one in the world. I don't care.

784
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: But if I stick in it, that's what I'm going

785
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 3: to put myself to do, because that's just that's who

786
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 3: I am.

787
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: Let's go from the philosophical to the more practical, which

788
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 1: will have philosophical elements. You have a new album, Big Money. Ay,

789
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: Why did you decide to cut a record now? And

790
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: what is the process of both thinking about what you're

791
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: recording and actually recording it? And to what degree do

792
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: you even consider perception or you're just gonna lay it

793
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: down the way you want to.

794
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 3: That's a great question, man. This is great to talk

795
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 3: to you because a lot of times the stuff it's

796
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: hard to present in an answer because the question doesn't

797
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 3: give the dimension for me to say what the process is.

798
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 2: So that's great. I love that. I don't.

799
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 3: I don't think about reception of the music or the

800
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: art that I'm making until after it's finished. So the

801
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: process of making it is a very subconscious reality that's

802
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,479
Speaker 3: rooted in very concrete terms. I signed a record deal,

803
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: I signed for a certain number of record I committed

804
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: to that at a certain point, and I have to

805
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 3: make a record, So that's a concrete reality. Now, what

806
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 3: is the record going to be? That comes to me.

807
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 3: Sometimes it comes to me literally in a dream, or

808
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: I will feel a compulsion to make a certain statement

809
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: and it won't even be clear to me what the

810
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: statement is. Like the name big Money and the statement

811
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 3: of big Money didn't come to me until after the

812
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: album was finished, and there was a song that I

813
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 3: wrote called big Money, and it became the title track

814
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 3: of the album. It wasn't like it wasn't it was

815
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 3: reverse engineered in that way. I don't think about perception

816
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 3: of it until after it's done, because then once I

817
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 3: have the art made on its own terms, and it's

818
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: presented as true to what it's telling me it wants

819
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 3: to be as I possibly can present it, then I

820
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 3: think Okay, how do I give this to people in

821
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: a way where they have the best opportunity of enjoying

822
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 3: the party? How do I present this to the world

823
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 3: in a way where they have the best understanding of

824
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 3: exactly what this is and why this is? And then

825
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 3: from there it's really up to the people and the

826
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: systems as they are, and the delivery of the music

827
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: and all of the ways that people respond to it,

828
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 3: and all the context of what's happening in the world

829
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 3: around it and things that I don't have control of,

830
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: And you know, I don't. I don't beat myself up

831
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 3: about the reception of a record, whether it's critical or

832
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: commercial or things like that. Oftentimes people don't even have

833
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 3: the perspective or have been following along in terms of

834
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: my artistic statements and the messaging and the connective thread

835
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 3: of all of them, going back to my roots and

836
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 3: understanding what it is and who it is that I am,

837
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 3: and what I'm saying and why I'm saying it. Most

838
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: of the time, there's not even that sort.

839
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: Of of of of pedigree to even assess fully what

840
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: it is that I'm doing. And I don't.

841
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 3: I don't say that in like a judgmental way or

842
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 3: in a way that feels like I'm above everybody. I'm

843
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: just saying that based upon the fact that what it

844
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: is that I traffic in, and how specific it is,

845
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 3: and how deep I am in it at this point,

846
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: and how committed to it I've been from the beginning.

847
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: If you haven't been with me, like they say, if

848
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 3: you haven't been in the gym shooting those shots, then

849
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 3: you're not gonna be able to assess it or talk

850
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 3: about it in the same way. You're not gonna be

851
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 3: able to play in the same sequence that I'm playing in.

852
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: And I'm okay with that because that's kind of what

853
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: I like. I kind of like I kind of like

854
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 3: hiding in plain sight until I'm not. I kind of

855
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 3: like being a dark horse. I kind of like doing

856
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 3: what it is that I'm doing and doing it at

857
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: the highest level I can possibly do it, And sometimes

858
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 3: people catch it and it gets rewarded, and other times

859
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 3: people completely miss it and misunderstand it and don't and

860
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 3: they think that I'm doing something that I'm not. And

861
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: other times it just is, you know, something that I

862
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: did that we don't give a certain sense of promotion

863
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: or a certain consideration of perception or how it's received.

864
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 2: And I believe almost.

865
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 3: That that stuff that I have done and that's been

866
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: more of that than anything else, Bob, to be honest,

867
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 3: more stuff that I've done that I've just put out

868
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 3: there or have created or performed or have documented without

869
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: even thinking about it being received and just putting it

870
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 3: there because I believe that it will have this radar

871
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 3: to catch people and they need to catch him, and

872
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 3: it'll be something that is a document of history. And

873
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 3: it's crazy because I'm not even like a big legacy guy,

874
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: like I don't really care what people think of me

875
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 3: after I'm gone, because it's like what Mike Tyson says,

876
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: like what is a legacy? I'm dead, doesn't matter. I'm dead,

877
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 3: Why you shouldn't be talking about me? Who cares? So

878
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 3: I'm not like a big legacy guy. But I also

879
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 3: have this wild instinct from my youth. It's just like

880
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 3: I call it wild because it's not logical of thinking

881
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 3: about what it is that I'm doing and how it's

882
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 3: perceived throughout history and service of people who I've yet

883
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: to meet. And I feel that strongly, and a lot

884
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 3: of my work primarily is driven by that yes, I

885
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 3: want to hit certain metrics and reach people and do that.

886
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 3: But I've probably and many times people have told me this.

887
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 3: It's like I told you that, I don't feel like

888
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 3: I'm a manageable person. I'm not like a good client

889
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 3: to be a not because I'm difficult or rude, but

890
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 3: because there's a lot of things that I could be

891
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 3: doing and could have done over the years to be

892
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 3: much bigger, much more successful. Dah blah blah blah blah

893
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah blah. I think about things

894
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: primarily from the perspective of if I make this, I

895
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 3: feel like it's either for today or it's for some

896
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: people in the future. I don't know those people, and

897
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 3: I just feel like this is for them and I

898
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 3: have to do it because I'm the only one that

899
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 3: can do it.

900
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. We've talked about

901
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: once the record is done, perception and reception. But let's

902
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: talk about conception. You say oftentimes you have something in

903
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: a dream. There are many Actually, when you're a musician

904
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: working with other people, there are many steps from conception

905
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: to completion. Okay, with some people, there's a demo wing process.

906
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: But you can have an idea in your head and

907
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: then there's so many chapters in getting it to the

908
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: end that it loses its essence or it's not as magical,

909
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: or sometimes a reverse. You're working on it and it

910
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: becomes better. So how does it work with you?

911
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: It is different every time. Every single time is different.

912
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 3: And this year, for instance, I'm gonna show you a

913
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 3: perfect example by looking at this and not nine months

914
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: stretch of time. I put out this big money album

915
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: which is recorded in a period of two weeks, the

916
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 3: band in the same room, breathing the same a playing

917
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 3: the music together, and going back to the sense of

918
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 3: recorded music is what I really like to think about

919
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: it as where you're just in a room making the

920
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 3: music capture in the moment, and you're trying to capture

921
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 3: this sort of lightning in a bottle, and it's like

922
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 3: the Rolling Stones recorded that, Chuck Berry, all these people

923
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 3: record that way, and then you know, within the same

924
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 3: nine months, I did a classical piano album, Beethoven Blues.

925
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 3: The conception of those albums, why I decided to those albums,

926
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 3: how I recorded those albums, the approach to rehearsing or

927
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 3: to writing or arranging.

928
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: Is it just is completely different.

929
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 3: And then before that, I made the World Music Radio Album,

930
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 3: and the World Music Radio Album was literally an ambitious

931
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 3: concept album that was presented and written as if I

932
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: was writing a movie, and I was inspired by films.

933
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fat a lot by films. You know.

934
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 3: I still watch Forrest Gump every year. It's probably my

935
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 3: favorite film.

936
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: You know. And then.

937
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 3: I think about, you know, even the We Are album,

938
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 3: how many years of different demos and ideas and things

939
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 3: putting things together, and how that album is actually a

940
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 3: natural outgrowth of the Social Music Album, which was an

941
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 3: independent album that I made that was like, really that

942
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: was like the manifesto of my concept and the vision

943
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 3: of what it is that I want to do, and

944
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: it's a record that probably no one has heard, but

945
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 3: so so I just think about how some of the

946
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 3: demos from that, which came out in twenty thirteen, became

947
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: what the We Are album is, and that's a whole

948
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 3: nother process. For big money. It was the opposite of that.

949
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: It was, you know, me really driving around the country

950
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 3: on tour. My first tour. We played at the Rhyme

951
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 3: In one night, I was playing a lot of guitar

952
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 3: on the tour. You know, obviously primarily a pianist, but

953
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 3: I play a lot of instruments and the guitar. I

954
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 3: was playing a lot of guitar, both on and off stage,

955
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 3: in the tour bus, looking out the window in the backstage.

956
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 3: Just all these things were processing in my mind, and

957
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 3: I took the guitar and I almost became an unorthodox

958
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 3: form of journaling where I wasn't even writing songs. I

959
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: was just capturing melodies and chords and ideas and all

960
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 3: these different people I was meeting. And I told you

961
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 3: that story about the Indiana the four generations of family.

962
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 3: I got a hundred different stories from people that I

963
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: met across the country on that tour, and stories about

964
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 3: how like I've been waiting seven years for you to tour,

965
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 3: and like your music is needed now more than ever,

966
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 3: the times of you know, all this stuff's happening around

967
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 3: that time and still happening. It just was, you know,

968
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 3: I was processing a lot, and the song Big Money

969
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 3: came in a writing session post this show I played

970
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 3: at the Ryman and I was playing the guitar, and

971
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 3: that was sort of the conception of the album. Subconsciously

972
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 3: the seed was planning after that show in that song

973
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 3: of Oh, this is a guitar based statement on the

974
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 3: times we're in maintaining faith these people, to look in

975
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 3: these people's eyes, who I'm meeting, the generational tradition of

976
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 3: what Americana is, how we can redefine and readdress that

977
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 3: in the contemporary time. And then also there was this

978
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 3: real convergence that happened between Dione and I no Id,

979
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 3: who was like my co pilot with this record. So

980
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 3: Dion and I have been talking for about five years

981
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 3: about you know, life and all these different things about music,

982
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 3: but not.

983
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 2: About collaborating per se.

984
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 3: And then we had the opportunity to collaborate and work

985
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 3: on Beyonce's record, Cowboy Carter Record. When she was finishing

986
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 3: that record, you know, we co wrote this song which

987
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 3: I was writing on the guitar called American Requiem. It

988
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 3: was the first track of the record. And then that

989
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 3: was also like a convergence because I didn't know that

990
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 3: she was working on that project obviously, but it's a

991
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 3: similar not the same, because I'm not really into this

992
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 3: sort of let's all make country music now, but just

993
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 3: the idea of going back to the dirt, which is

994
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 3: something I've been doing for many years and have always

995
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 3: wanted to represent the contemporary space. But just having that

996
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 3: be a collective consciousness of artists who are doing this

997
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: sort of repatriation of music and of culture, particularly American music,

998
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: but globally has been happening, and just to see that

999
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: on the biggest level and to contribute to that and

1000
01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 3: have the honor of being a part of that, and

1001
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: kind of one of the spearhead records of that led

1002
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 3: to Dianna and I collaborating, which we had already been doing.

1003
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 3: Is kind of where that kind of idea of American

1004
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 3: recue on part of American recorum came from. But then

1005
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 3: just going from that space of conversation with him, all

1006
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 3: these things sort of converged conception of all of this.

1007
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 3: This this stimulus led to a two week explosion, which

1008
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 3: is like, I'm a binge creative. A lot of times

1009
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 3: I'll say that, which is this idea that I'll sit

1010
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 3: and stuff will be incubating.

1011
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 2: I'm always creating.

1012
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: I'm always doing demos or writing or journaling or whatever

1013
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: it is that I'm doing in that period, you know,

1014
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 3: takes different forms and then there'll be a boot. It's

1015
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 3: like it's like lightning. It's like a lightning.

1016
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. And you want

1017
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 1: to capture that emotion, that intensity before it goes away.

1018
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 2: Yes, and that's what the record is. So you know

1019
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 2: that's it. You nailed it.

1020
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna switch gears a little bit more. You had

1021
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,479
Speaker 1: an album that won the Grammy Album of the Year.

1022
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: How did that change your life in both good and

1023
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: bad ways?

1024
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I didn't have a chance to really

1025
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 3: process to understand at the time because my wife, Sulaika,

1026
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 3: who is definitely among the most brilliant and special people

1027
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 3: on the planet Earth and my soulmate, was facing a

1028
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 3: life threatening diagnosis and we didn't know if she was

1029
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 3: gonna make it to even watch the Grammys. She wasn't

1030
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 3: damn person, but she was at home watching because she

1031
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 3: had just done a bone marrow transplant.

1032
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 2: And my life.

1033
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 3: It's not to say that everything that you've been working

1034
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 3: for up to that point is not appreciated, but it

1035
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 3: felt more like my life was falling apart than a

1036
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 3: celebration or sort of a shifting gears based on the Grammys.

1037
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 3: It was a shifting gears based on what we were

1038
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 3: going through at home, and the Grammys just happened to

1039
01:04:54,520 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 3: be concurrent with that. Now, in the midst of that

1040
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 3: just became such a difficult thing to fathom and even

1041
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 3: wrap your head around that. I'm still processing how it's

1042
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 3: changed me because I didn't stop.

1043
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: I couldn't stop.

1044
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 3: I was and I was on a plane the next day,

1045
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 3: and by the next night I was in the cancer

1046
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 3: War that Sloan kettering. So the juxtaposition between doing that

1047
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 3: and I was also working with my good friend, the

1048
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 3: great Stephen Copet on the show, being his musical director,

1049
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 3: and all this was happening right, and.

1050
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 2: There was no time to stop.

1051
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 3: There was no moment to say, wow, now let's go

1052
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 3: back into the studio and make.

1053
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 2: Another record, or let's go on the road.

1054
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 3: And less like, you know, what are we gonna do,

1055
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 3: How we're gonna how we're gonna market this, how we're

1056
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 3: gonna spend this, what.

1057
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 2: We we got to get another collaboration on the books?

1058
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 2: We gotta do.

1059
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 3: No, it was how can I not have a nervous breakdown?

1060
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 3: How can my wife live? How can I maintain a

1061
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 3: equilibrium at my uh, my day job, my my which

1062
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 3: which was a thing that actually changed my life more

1063
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 3: than the Grammys, being a kid just three years out

1064
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 3: of college and being the youngest band leader on television,

1065
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 3: late night TV at an institution that's now you know,

1066
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 3: in the state that it's in. But to just be

1067
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 3: in that position, you know, I'm forever grateful for that.

1068
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 3: And and to just have go from not having money

1069
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 3: to having money in the corner office on Broadway, you know,

1070
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 3: that's the thing that more changed my life. But so

1071
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 3: going back to to the moment, just how do I

1072
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: stay faithful to that? And you're six of that, you're

1073
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 3: five to six of that, And eventually what change was

1074
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 3: something had to give and I left the show. And

1075
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 3: I also, you know, just before this, my long term

1076
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: team and the folks who really have been taking care

1077
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 3: of me for that time, I just felt this inner

1078
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: yearning before this, without even knowing what was to come,

1079
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 3: that I needed to shift gears and to build this

1080
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 3: thing that we talked about, the sort of world of

1081
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 3: John Batista and what it is that I want to

1082
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 3: do in the world and it's not just music and

1083
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 3: music industry, and how can I build something that really

1084
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 3: facilitates that, And you know, so I had completely before

1085
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 3: this storm of life shut down my team.

1086
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 2: So I went into this.

1087
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 3: With no manager and no record deal, and I won

1088
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 3: the record that the Album of the Year Grammy and

1089
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 3: five Grammys that night, with no manager, no record deal,

1090
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 3: and a complete disarray.

1091
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: In my life and a.

1092
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: Job that was four or five days a week, two

1093
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 3: hundred and two shows a year on national television.

1094
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: And my position on that show was to bring joy.

1095
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I just want you to put that into

1096
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 3: perspective because most people don't understand that when they asked

1097
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 3: me about, oh, how did the Graham you? How did

1098
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 3: that change your life? You were nominate eleven gram You know,

1099
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 3: I've always watched Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson one of my heroes, right,

1100
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 3: And it's like, people like you nominated for eleven Grams.

1101
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:39,400
Speaker 2: The only person.

1102
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 3: Nominated more than that is Michael Jackson in a single year.

1103
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 3: And you think that I would be like, wow, I'm

1104
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 3: not even worthy. But I didn't even have chance to

1105
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 3: to even be be able to sit in that moment

1106
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 3: and process the magnitude of it.

1107
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 2: It was just like how do I stay alive? Uh?

1108
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 3: And and and then that record also what it meant,

1109
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 3: and what most of the stuff that I make is

1110
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 3: meant to do feel so far away from what usually

1111
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 3: gets recognized in that way. You know, my grandfather was

1112
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 3: on this record. He won a Grammy. He you know,

1113
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 3: at the time, he was ninety. He's passed away now,

1114
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 3: but you know, he's somebody who was an activist. He

1115
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 3: was the first hotel workers Union president, and and the

1116
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 3: and the and and the Postal Workers Union president and

1117
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 3: fought instead. You know, at the time of Martin Luther

1118
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 3: King Junior, the sanitation work strike, he was in support

1119
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 3: of that. And this guy is like an unsung American hero.

1120
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 3: So he's on the record and he's at the Grammys

1121
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 3: with me, and you understand, like the people on the

1122
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 3: record who won Grammys because of what that record was,

1123
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 3: it's just beyond like no one hare's still not been

1124
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 3: a critical a journalistic analysis of that and what that

1125
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 3: really actually meant.

1126
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 2: Besides, oh, John Baptiste won a Grammy. This is not

1127
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 2: I could just go on and on.

1128
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 3: About the significance of that, and we didn't even have

1129
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 3: a chance to get into that.

1130
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: You know, listen, I'm someone who congratulations for winning. I

1131
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: think there's an over emphasis on the Grammys. The reason

1132
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: I asked the question is, you know, once you have

1133
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 1: that level of visibility, a lot of people are looking

1134
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: for your time, a lot of people want things, and

1135
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, you're just the same person, so it gives opportunities,

1136
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: but you're more exposed to bullshit too.

1137
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 2: Well.

1138
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 3: You know, I've been exposed to bs for a long

1139
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 3: time and that didn't really change, you know, I'm I'm

1140
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 3: someone who has always had a lot of people that

1141
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 3: are competing to have FaceTime or to have some sort

1142
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 3: of time. And that's before I was known, That's before

1143
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 3: I was a Grammy winner. That's just something that I

1144
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 3: think certain people have a certain sort of position in

1145
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 3: life where you have to learn something from the way

1146
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 3: that God sets you up in the world.

1147
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 2: I'm an introvert.

1148
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 3: I don't like to be the center of attention and

1149
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,639
Speaker 3: to socializing that way, and for whatever reason, for most

1150
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 3: of my young adult life, there's been a magnetism for

1151
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 3: people wanting me to do this or be a part

1152
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 3: of this, or be here or there. And it's really

1153
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 3: been something that you know, I've been in therapy for that.

1154
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 3: I figured out how to regulate, I figured out how

1155
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 3: to step outside of my comfort zone both on and

1156
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 3: off stage. I figured out how to verbally express my

1157
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 3: thoughts and feelings acutely. You know, for many years, up

1158
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 3: almost to the age of ten, I didn't speak. I

1159
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 3: was nonverbal, Like I'm not just saying I'm an introvert,

1160
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 3: I'm asked there this, It's beyond just I'm a quiet guy.

1161
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:34,760
Speaker 2: So it there was not a shift.

1162
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 3: For me after the Grammy is It was just like

1163
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:40,879
Speaker 3: there was almost this sense of knowing within the community

1164
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 3: the people that I was around that Okay, he has something,

1165
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 3: we got to get a piece of him, or let

1166
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 3: there's something there. And then the only difference after that

1167
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 3: was now there was more money involved. So but I

1168
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 3: don't think that people really understood how to leverage me

1169
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 3: per se in terms of the kind of stuff you're

1170
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 3: talking about, which I think happens to a lot of

1171
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 3: people after like a major moment. But again, how do

1172
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 3: you how would someone leverage what it is that I

1173
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 3: do in the context of what they do in a

1174
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 3: moment like that. It's difficult for people to figure that out.

1175
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,799
Speaker 3: So I think in some regards that protected me from

1176
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 3: an onslaught of even more stuff. But yeah, saying that

1177
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 3: to say, we have so many things that happen every day.

1178
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 3: It's like hundreds of calls and requests. And it's been

1179
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:48,560
Speaker 3: like that for me for twenty years. It's just like

1180
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 3: constant barrage of can you do this? Or can you

1181
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 3: be here? Can you So I feel like I kind

1182
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: of prepared for that in my life by just trying

1183
01:13:57,960 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 3: to figure out how to get over my introversion.

1184
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 1: I want to get back to the introversion. But before

1185
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 1: we do, what's the status of your wife's health today?

1186
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 3: We just did a tour together and that is a

1187
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:17,480
Speaker 3: it's not just the success, but it's a life milestone

1188
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 3: because we didn't know if we would even be able

1189
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 3: to travel after the transplant. We just did a tour

1190
01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 3: together for her book. She wrote a book and she's

1191
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm man. We could do a whole interview

1192
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: about her Man's We talked about I want to use

1193
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 3: my music to reach people. She just wrote a book

1194
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 3: from her her experiences with journaling and her experiences going

1195
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 3: into the darkness. She's written a book that's a practice,

1196
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 3: a creative practice for folks who are going through similar things,

1197
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 3: even not going through theys, just want to process what's

1198
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,440
Speaker 3: going on in the world, and she created this incredible

1199
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: tour where we were on stage together and she's able

1200
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 3: to tour and do things and write. She's been painting

1201
01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 3: as well. She has an art exhibition that she just

1202
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 3: had and in our hometown where we live on the

1203
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 3: East Coast, and she's doing really well with treatment that's indefinite,

1204
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 3: which you know, is unfortunate. We have to deal with that,

1205
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: but we're grateful that she's here. And then she has

1206
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 3: treatment that we're going through every every month, and beyond that,

1207
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 3: we're just hoping that as things evolve that will have

1208
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 3: some better options as she continues to deal with all

1209
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 3: the treatments.

1210
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: How'd you meet her?

1211
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 2: We met We met in band camp, believe it or not.

1212
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 3: We were, you know, twelve and fourteen years old and

1213
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:58,879
Speaker 3: we met in Sarah Toolda Springs, New York at Skidmore College.

1214
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 3: It was a I'm a music camp. There's an orchestra camp,

1215
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:05,599
Speaker 3: a dance camp, in a jazz camp, and she was

1216
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: there as a classical double basis now mentioned you know,

1217
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 3: the fact she plays double bass. It's just it's like

1218
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 3: I love to brag on her because it's like she

1219
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 3: plays the double bass. She got into Juilliard, didn't decide

1220
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 3: to go to Juilliard. But that's when we reconnected. After

1221
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 3: the camp. I was at Juilliard and she was at

1222
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,679
Speaker 3: the She was, well, we stop.

1223
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 1: For a second. Wait wait, you're at the camp. You

1224
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 1: meet her at the camp. Is there a romance at

1225
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: the camp?

1226
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no, no. This which is you know

1227
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,680
Speaker 2: with kids, it's not like that. It's more like.

1228
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 3: We we we're in the same circles and we have

1229
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 3: this real connection as friends. It's nothing that we would

1230
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 3: even think would ever be what it is today, but

1231
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:52,280
Speaker 3: it just.

1232
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: Is a real Oh that's a that's a cool kid.

1233
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 2: I like.

1234
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 3: I like her, She's cool, and uh. From there we

1235
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 3: stay in touch a bit. But you know, it's more

1236
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,760
Speaker 3: when we reconnect when she's you know, I'm starting my

1237
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 3: first year at Julia New York. I moved to New

1238
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 3: York now officially from Kena, Louisiana, you know, and and then.

1239
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 2: She's there and I'm like, oh, wow, look at that.

1240
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 3: You know, she's playing a double bass in the Juliard

1241
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 3: pre college program, and you know, I'm trying to figure

1242
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 3: out how did I even end up in school like this?

1243
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,759
Speaker 3: And you know, we just like reconnect and from there,

1244
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 3: you know, there's so many things that happened. This this, uh,

1245
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,200
Speaker 3: it's just a really epic journey we've been on together.

1246
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 1: Well, tell me a little bit. Was like an instant

1247
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: romance to that ups and downs, what was going on.

1248
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,639
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, she had a lot of stuff

1249
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:53,040
Speaker 3: that was going on, and in a and and in

1250
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 3: many different ways. We were friends in a in a

1251
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 3: way that we supported each other. I would see her,

1252
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 3: she would come to concert to mine. We would hang

1253
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 3: out with a lot of the same people. We would

1254
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:13,280
Speaker 3: sometimes talk. Her dad was is a huge jazz fan,

1255
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 3: and he would come to concerts sometimes when I was

1256
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 3: in the jazz days of the Jazz Trio, and she

1257
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 3: wouldn't even be there. So I got to know her

1258
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 3: family and that way. It was just very much a setup.

1259
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 3: But we always were with other people. And then at

1260
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:32,600
Speaker 3: a certain point she got sick. And this is like

1261
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 3: twenty ten, twenty eleven, and this was the first time

1262
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,880
Speaker 3: she got sick and she was in the hospital and

1263
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 3: I took my band to the hospital when I heard

1264
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 3: the news that she was sick, and we went to

1265
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 3: where she was and in her room in a hospital room,

1266
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 3: next to the hospital bed. We played a second line

1267
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 3: and he saw the nurses come out and they were

1268
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,640
Speaker 3: dancing in the hallways. We were playing on when the

1269
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 3: Saints go marching in and you know, just kind of

1270
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 3: serenading her, giving her some oh yes as a friend,

1271
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 3: and you know, she she came through that. And once

1272
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 3: she came through that, it was a moment where we

1273
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 3: both saw something in each other that we hadn't seen before,

1274
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,479
Speaker 3: and that became the a's the beginning of where we

1275
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 3: are now. So but there's just there's so many different phases,

1276
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 3: from the awkward kid phase to the phase of being

1277
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 3: go get us in New York coming from small towns.

1278
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 3: You know, she grew up between Tunisia and Switzerland and

1279
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 3: upstate New York, and now we're in Manhattan and we're

1280
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 3: trying to, you know, figure out the world. And then

1281
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:49,600
Speaker 3: the phase of her getting sick and having this life interruption,

1282
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 3: and then and us getting closer than that time because

1283
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people actually fell away from her when

1284
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 3: she got sick because they didn't know how to deal

1285
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 3: with the fact that someone twenty one years old and

1286
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 3: you know, everybody's trying to play beer pong at parties

1287
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,639
Speaker 3: not visit you in the cancer ward and she lost

1288
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 3: a lot of friends and we got closer.

1289
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 2: In that time. So it was like another at phase.

1290
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 3: And then from the phase of her getting well again

1291
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 3: and that us developing a sort of romance, and then

1292
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,320
Speaker 3: my career kind of taking off in a different way,

1293
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 3: in a way that.

1294
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 2: A career like it's a real career moment, like now

1295
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 2: he's on TV.

1296
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 3: Like we saw him playing in the subway and then

1297
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 3: like the Lower East Side in the village, and now

1298
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 3: he's on television every night. And in those early days

1299
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 3: when I was playing, she saw that transition. You know,

1300
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 3: there was like many years where I was playing around

1301
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 3: until your point about like people constantly want me to

1302
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 3: do stuff for bringing me into things.

1303
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 2: I felt like we.

1304
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 3: Had a really cool era where I was like your

1305
01:20:56,160 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 3: favorite band's favorite band, and like we would played these

1306
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 3: secret shows and lofts and uh and in basements in Harlem,

1307
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 3: and like one show Lenny Kravitz came and he played

1308
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 3: with us and he was playing the drums and like

1309
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 3: we were nobody. And then like questlove Emir, who I'm

1310
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,000
Speaker 3: all forever grateful for shouting me out once and in

1311
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 3: this article he did, He's like, the three greatest shows

1312
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 3: that I've seen this year.

1313
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:26,719
Speaker 2: It's a three way tie.

1314
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 3: So he said, I still have the article because I

1315
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 3: was such a big deal for us as a band.

1316
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:38,320
Speaker 3: He's like, he was, like, it's Beyonce Prince and this

1317
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,640
Speaker 3: kid John Baptiste googled him and thank me later, like

1318
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 3: we were your red hot Chili Peppers came to one

1319
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 3: of these basement shows I did in Harlem, and I

1320
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,840
Speaker 3: ended up making a record with Chad Smith and Bill

1321
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:52,880
Speaker 3: Laswell when I was in college that nobody has heard.

1322
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 3: But but like again, like there was a phase where

1323
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 3: I was everywhere but wasn't making any money and nobody

1324
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 3: knew who my.

1325
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 2: Name except for like people like that.

1326
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 3: But she saw all of that, and then it went

1327
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 3: from that to us being on television every night and

1328
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:17,679
Speaker 3: and our lives. We just have been through so much together.

1329
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 3: A quick and fun fact side note. One thing that

1330
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 3: Lenny Uncle Lenny, when when we want Grammy for Album

1331
01:22:27,479 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 3: of the Year, he was the one who made the

1332
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 3: announcement and gave me the Grammy, and he whispers in

1333
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 3: my ear.

1334
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if you could see it. You can't

1335
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 2: hear it on the air.

1336
01:22:35,120 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 3: I tried to hear it, but you can see him like, man,

1337
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 3: I'm so glad to be the one to give this

1338
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 3: to you, from the basement to the grammy, Like it

1339
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,680
Speaker 3: was like a he was he saw you know what

1340
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 3: I'm saying, just.

1341
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 2: Like the the range of what that was.

1342
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:56,879
Speaker 3: But anyway, I I would not be who I am

1343
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 3: without my wife. And she's she's doing well, God willing,

1344
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:08,760
Speaker 3: we continue to find advancements of how we can continue

1345
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 3: to make her be here for years and years to come.

1346
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:16,559
Speaker 3: And she's such an incredible voice in culture with the

1347
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 3: work that she does. So you know, I don't mind

1348
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,439
Speaker 3: talking about her. Ever, if you want to talk about

1349
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 3: her more, we can do that too. Yes, like us

1350
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 3: doing well, And that's a little bit about our story.

1351
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:31,640
Speaker 1: Let's go back. You were talking about being an introvert

1352
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: and going to therapy. Is that why you went to therapy.

1353
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've always had a lot of thoughts that they get.

1354
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 2: It's hard to describe it. It's like.

1355
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 3: It's like if you have a clog or a backlaw

1356
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 3: of stimulus and it's so rapid, the pace of it

1357
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 3: is so the pace of it is so rapid that

1358
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 3: you can't possibly formulate an understanding of it to verbalize

1359
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 3: it at scale, So you have to figure out what

1360
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 3: to do with it, because if it doesn't come out,

1361
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 3: you have to figure out what to do to regulate

1362
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 3: yourself as more more more compound on the thought to

1363
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 3: begin with, I didn't have a way to deal with that.

1364
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:46,600
Speaker 3: And as a kid, you know, my mind, it just

1365
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 3: was it's like racing, like and I'm seeing things. It's

1366
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 3: like a lot of pattern recognition and a lot of

1367
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 3: just like it's hard to just put in the words

1368
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,719
Speaker 3: like in just sometimes images or colors and just you're seeing.

1369
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 3: You're just seeing all of this stuff, and it's like

1370
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 3: some of it is a thought, some of it is

1371
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 3: a feeling, some of it is a color that's representative

1372
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 3: of an emotion or a sound. I don't know how

1373
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 3: to it's hard, even until today to describe it. But

1374
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 3: just figuring out how to put that into words was

1375
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:24,720
Speaker 3: why I decided to start doing therapy. And how do

1376
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 3: I speak authentically and how do I how do I

1377
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 3: exist as as as who it is that I am.

1378
01:25:39,400 --> 01:25:42,480
Speaker 2: I'm meant to be out loud in the service.

1379
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:47,879
Speaker 3: Of of of of being a good citizen and being useful,

1380
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,760
Speaker 3: Like just how do I how do I deal.

1381
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:51,120
Speaker 2: With all of that?

1382
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 3: And you know I needed to do that, and and

1383
01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 3: sometimes I am. I still struggle with that, you know,

1384
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 3: I still That's one of the reasons why we when

1385
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 3: we talked about two to five years. That's a big

1386
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:11,479
Speaker 3: part of it. What I'm what I what I do,

1387
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:17,680
Speaker 3: what I'm fortunate to do. It also takes blood for

1388
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:22,679
Speaker 3: me to do, like I don't like like, like Ruvenstein said,

1389
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 3: you haven't played a concert until you spill to drop

1390
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:34,480
Speaker 3: of blood. Like like, I'm I can't. I can't help it.

1391
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to I can't. I can't even

1392
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 3: go ninety nine percent. It's got to always be one

1393
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 3: hundred and ten. Like I can't halfway do it when

1394
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 3: I'm performing. And it's just it takes so much that

1395
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,840
Speaker 3: it's like, I don't know, man, It's sometimes I'm like,

1396
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can sustain this.

1397
01:26:57,479 --> 01:27:02,080
Speaker 1: Okay, I believe you're in Vegas, right, Yes, Okay, if

1398
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 1: you're in Vegas, we're talking one on one. It's gonna

1399
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 1: stop at some point. You don't have a gig tonight,

1400
01:27:08,920 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 1: what will you do tonight?

1401
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 4: Man?

1402
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 3: You know, probably read YouTube. I'm a YouTube historian. I'll

1403
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 3: probably call some of my conversational sparring partners and try

1404
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:40,160
Speaker 3: to talk about some sort of Who are.

1405
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 1: Your conversational sparring partners?

1406
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:46,600
Speaker 2: You know, there's a few for different things. Nobody you

1407
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 2: would know. I don't think let me think about it.

1408
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 1: That's not important whether I know them. But you obviously

1409
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:58,440
Speaker 1: have a curious mind, are well informed and are very philosophical.

1410
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 1: Most people not that way. Let's talk about the other side.

1411
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: You're on stage, the other side of stage business. It's

1412
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: a dumb business. It's not an intellectual business. So you're

1413
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,920
Speaker 1: having intellectual conversations. You know, musicians are different. So a

1414
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: lot of musicians are quiet speak through their instrument But

1415
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 1: how hard is it for you to find sparring partners?

1416
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:22,520
Speaker 2: Man?

1417
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 3: Wow, you're really catching you catching the right questions. Man,

1418
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 3: that's good stuff.

1419
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:35,759
Speaker 2: I like that. This is cool. No, man, it's not easy.

1420
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 2: It's not.

1421
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 3: But I really don't mean that in a way. What

1422
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:46,479
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that there's like a people aren't interesting.

1423
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 3: I think everybody is endlessly interesting. That's what makes me

1424
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 3: so curious. I find that the way things work and

1425
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:59,599
Speaker 3: how the world has become, what has become and how

1426
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 3: we can be a part in that, Like I was saying,

1427
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:07,479
Speaker 3: people power and just the understanding of how the the

1428
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 3: that impacts what we do as musicians as artists, and

1429
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:14,680
Speaker 3: then what people go through on a daily basis, and

1430
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 3: just thinking about how that postulating about where that will

1431
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 3: go and what It's amazing. But you know a lot

1432
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 3: of people that's hard to find. Folks like my longtime

1433
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 3: friend and drummer Joe Sailor, who you know, he's He's

1434
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:39,600
Speaker 3: he's he's one of the folks that we talk a

1435
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,360
Speaker 3: lot about that. And now we always had an incredible,

1436
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,120
Speaker 3: uh musical connection is a great rhythmic hookup and just

1437
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:51,640
Speaker 3: sort of like a esp on the bandstand, and you know,

1438
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 3: that was when we were teenagers, and and then as

1439
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 3: the years went on, I realized, oh, it's because we

1440
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 3: have a similar interest in these things as well. So

1441
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:07,880
Speaker 3: there's like I find a lot of times that there's

1442
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 3: a musicians who have been with me for a while,

1443
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 3: we've developed the culture of that. And then there's other

1444
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 3: people who I talk to often who are not musicians

1445
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 3: at all, are not a part of the business at all,

1446
01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 3: and it's really it's quite fascinating their perception of it

1447
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 3: from the outside.

1448
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's true. Within the industry, it's not.

1449
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 3: And that's another reason why I could see myself getting out.

1450
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 2: I don't.

1451
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 3: I feel like trying to conform to the ways of

1452
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 3: the industry and trying to service the needs of what

1453
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:56,839
Speaker 3: in order to continue to scale and be quote unquote

1454
01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 3: successful in this space means I have to sort of

1455
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:06,600
Speaker 3: damping or flatten certain aspects of what actually drives me

1456
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:08,280
Speaker 3: and what I want to give to the people and

1457
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 3: how I want to serve.

1458
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 1: Give me one example of something you might have to

1459
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 1: flatten or flattened.

1460
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:28,919
Speaker 3: The narrative of big money as projected through social media TikTok, Instagram.

1461
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 3: It's not there's not enough nuance for me to express

1462
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,600
Speaker 3: and for you to fully understand and what it is

1463
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 3: that I want to express and what I think is

1464
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 3: ultimately the true value of it.

1465
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 2: And an album cycle.

1466
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 3: And the way that those things work, and the way

1467
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:49,800
Speaker 3: that promotion works, and the way that all the things

1468
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 3: are building a narrative and a headline and how that

1469
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 3: has to be something that or you got to go

1470
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:59,680
Speaker 3: on the press and you got to say something outlandish

1471
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 3: or just like, none of that is for me that's

1472
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 3: all for the birds. That does not service and it

1473
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 3: doesn't serve the audience to really get the music and

1474
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:14,880
Speaker 3: get the most out of the music. The way that

1475
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 3: it is that we make the music over here, the

1476
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:19,640
Speaker 3: way that what we put into it, the way we

1477
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 3: cook the food over here, is you're not gonna enjoy

1478
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 3: it the most if you're trying to. You might get

1479
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 3: to it, but you might miss it because of the

1480
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 3: way of the delivery systems. So it just doesn't I think,

1481
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 3: you know, if I think about, like for the for

1482
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 3: the literary community, like some folks jumped on this thing

1483
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,879
Speaker 3: called substack because they were like, man, the delivery systems

1484
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,600
Speaker 3: aren't really I'm sure you know all about that, but

1485
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 3: you know, just I'm thinking about, like, I don't know,

1486
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 3: you see people trying to find alternatives, and the algorithm

1487
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:03,000
Speaker 3: the algorithms, Man, the algorithms reward stuff that doesn't resonate

1488
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 3: at the frequency of what I do.

1489
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait, I read something. I saved it. But

1490
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:10,960
Speaker 1: ultimately three there's this woman who's like a big Mozart

1491
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 1: you might know Meetsuko Cheetah.

1492
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,639
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, of course, the greatest pianist.

1493
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so she had a quote in Newsweek thirty

1494
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 1: years ago, she said, I tell all my students to

1495
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: practice really hard and try to do something great, because

1496
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:33,080
Speaker 1: there's very little great out there. So, yes, you can

1497
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:36,720
Speaker 1: talk about the algorithm. You can talk about this, but

1498
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of like pourn with the Supreme Court. You

1499
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 1: know it when you see it, you know it when

1500
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,800
Speaker 1: you hear it, and very few people can touch that.

1501
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 2: Well.

1502
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 3: I think that's true, But I also feel like the

1503
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 3: difference with porn and why that's so dark is because

1504
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:03,599
Speaker 3: it plays to the lowest to common denominate. It plays

1505
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 3: to the basest, darkest instincts of people. Greatness plays to

1506
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:09,960
Speaker 3: our highest ideals.

1507
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:14,280
Speaker 1: Not always wait wait, it may have that socially, but

1508
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 1: and people may have to come to that, but it.

1509
01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 4: May happen, That's what I'm saying. Okay, but it may

1510
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:25,479
Speaker 4: have an element that hooks them unknowingly and takes them

1511
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:27,720
Speaker 4: on the journey to the destination.

1512
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 2: But you got to hook them first, I know.

1513
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 4: But people, Okay, go ahead ahead, No, I mean listen

1514
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:42,360
Speaker 4: for a long time. In the Internet era, okay, first

1515
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 4: ten or fifteen years of this century, if you did

1516
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 4: something great, it would surface. Then you could do something great,

1517
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 4: and people couldn't hear it, they could be lost. I

1518
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:56,160
Speaker 4: think we're switching back because there's such a plethora of stuff.

1519
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:00,639
Speaker 4: We have a complete society that every day is looking

1520
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 4: for something that can tell somebody else about And you're right,

1521
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 4: a lot of it is lowest common denominator. And you're

1522
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 4: also right, many people are not playing on an artistic level.

1523
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 4: But when you plan it, you know, I'm not saying

1524
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,679
Speaker 4: it's one hundred percent success rate, but when someone does

1525
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 4: something and does something different, that's what truly resonates, you know,

1526
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 4: timing and all kinds of things you can't control. The

1527
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 4: system is fucked, but the system is not completely exclusive.

1528
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:36,800
Speaker 4: It doesn't completely rule out true artistry.

1529
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 2: No, there's exceptions.

1530
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 3: As I said earlier, it has exceptions, and I think

1531
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 3: there's a lot of exceptions. But that's my point. I

1532
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:50,439
Speaker 3: think that it was somewhere in the middle. I don't

1533
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 3: think that it's at a point where everybody who is

1534
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 3: an exception to the rule is recognized.

1535
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,200
Speaker 1: I agree there just stop on, just stop one point.

1536
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:05,839
Speaker 1: Music drove the culture certainly in the sixties and seventies

1537
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,120
Speaker 1: and eighties with MTV. If you want to know what

1538
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:12,000
Speaker 1: was going on you listen to a record, Okay, you're

1539
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 1: talking about your jazz reference points. The reference point there's

1540
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 1: huge incomm inequality. Okay. So you have the lower classes

1541
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 1: having the low hanging fruit, and the year two thousand

1542
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:28,680
Speaker 1: Survivor launched. After that, everybody thought they were celebrity. They

1543
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:32,280
Speaker 1: were doing something. Then we had Jersey Shore. The people

1544
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,479
Speaker 1: was I'm doing this now, and then I'm going back

1545
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 1: to Poughkeepsie. There's nothing here. Okay. So it used to

1546
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:45,240
Speaker 1: be that artist and artist that was that was its

1547
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: own special thing. You went to school. I don't know

1548
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:48,600
Speaker 1: what kind of school you went to. I went to

1549
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,519
Speaker 1: public school. There were the art kids. They were different.

1550
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 1: They might be beautiful, they might be hit, but they

1551
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 1: were in their own world. Those were middle class people.

1552
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 1: Those were the artists. I always use the example, you know,

1553
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,880
Speaker 1: Jefferson Airplane, where you like the music, they would they

1554
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:05,280
Speaker 1: would say no or they say I'm not going to

1555
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: do that, whereas today the music is dominated by uneducated,

1556
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 1: lower class people who can be pushed by the system.

1557
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 1: You can't you have too much experience, intelligence, and they think,

1558
01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:22,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it about Mariah Carey. But

1559
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 1: if you're a younger persons out. That's your reference point.

1560
01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:29,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to be a diva, etc. So a reference point.

1561
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:32,680
Speaker 1: Let's even use jazz, Mahabish, new orchestra or whatever. That

1562
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:37,200
Speaker 1: doesn't even come into the equation. So the system is

1563
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 1: not We're not in a good spot. So I agree

1564
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 1: with you there the crap is filling the channel. Yes, yes,

1565
01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:48,480
Speaker 1: I mean and listen.

1566
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:54,480
Speaker 2: You know. I also think.

1567
01:37:54,240 --> 01:38:01,320
Speaker 3: That that music, whatever how you want to classify it,

1568
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,000
Speaker 3: also has a place.

1569
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:06,680
Speaker 2: There's a value to it for what it is.

1570
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:11,839
Speaker 3: I don't consider anything that someone creates and builds community

1571
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:15,719
Speaker 3: around unless they're doing some heinous acts or this sort

1572
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:22,680
Speaker 3: of a form of destruction or assault and involved that

1573
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 3: beyond that community is a good thing, and I'm just

1574
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:30,719
Speaker 3: talking about greatness in music is a different thing.

1575
01:38:30,640 --> 01:38:33,720
Speaker 2: Than building community with music as a part of it.

1576
01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 3: And I think that this gotta we have to have

1577
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 3: different tiers in terms of music for the sake of culture,

1578
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:46,200
Speaker 3: because music represents something much more than just a form

1579
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:52,719
Speaker 3: of us making songs. It's music is a real part

1580
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 3: of who we are and how we continue to tell

1581
01:38:55,960 --> 01:39:00,880
Speaker 3: the stories of our mythologies generations and develop identity over

1582
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:03,519
Speaker 3: time and remember who we are and cultivate where we.

1583
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:03,840
Speaker 2: Want to go.

1584
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 3: So if we don't have the upper rung of culture,

1585
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 3: the upper rung of music, of great musicians, of great artists,

1586
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 3: great storytellers, in that way, you know, it's great to

1587
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 3: have all of the other stuff, but when you don't

1588
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:24,920
Speaker 3: have that other level, we're in bad shape.

1589
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm saying. We're in bad shape when

1590
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:28,200
Speaker 2: we don't have that.

1591
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 1: The thing you said which stuck out to me was

1592
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:36,000
Speaker 1: you talked about having people telling you to make compromises,

1593
01:39:36,400 --> 01:39:42,120
Speaker 1: and then you're saying, the audience knows. The audience knows authentic.

1594
01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:44,960
Speaker 1: So we live in a world where you say, get

1595
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: a code writer, get a remixer. You might have something

1596
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:53,080
Speaker 1: financially successful, but that essence, I mean, I'll reference a

1597
01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 1: classic rock era. The labels were totally hands off. We

1598
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:57,759
Speaker 1: give you money, we have to put out the record,

1599
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,679
Speaker 1: we don't know, just go do what you do, okay.

1600
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 1: Weren't the exact opposite thing. The suits say they know better,

1601
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:08,679
Speaker 1: they never do okay, And they said, well they got

1602
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 1: to do it this way in that way, And you

1603
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:12,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of people saying okay, I'll do that,

1604
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 1: and then you end up with compromise stuff.

1605
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:23,160
Speaker 3: Well, I find that the artists can still figure out

1606
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 3: how to how to how to make something authentic. It's

1607
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 3: just the delivery systems of the challenge. If you if

1608
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 3: you gotta if you have to go through what you

1609
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 3: know you call the suits, right the labels or whatever

1610
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:40,520
Speaker 3: it is, or you have to get on a playlist,

1611
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:42,360
Speaker 3: so you have to you know, all the things you

1612
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:44,439
Speaker 3: have to figure out how to do. You have to

1613
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:48,560
Speaker 3: make something that is suited, no fun intended, you to

1614
01:40:48,680 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 3: make something that that's sympatical with that. Otherwise you'll get

1615
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 3: overlooked unless you figure out a way to kind of

1616
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:03,599
Speaker 3: bypass the algorithm or create a new algorithm. Now that

1617
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 3: is rare, and that's what I'm saying, is a rare thing.

1618
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 3: Greatness isn't in the algorithm. Greatness is something that transcends

1619
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:16,880
Speaker 3: the algorithm. It transcends where we are, and it reaches

1620
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:21,280
Speaker 3: people because it's truly great. But sadly, and not even sadly,

1621
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:23,719
Speaker 3: I think somebody doing something truly great, there's an intrinsic

1622
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:28,920
Speaker 3: value to it that doesn't need recognition. But I'm just

1623
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 3: saying that most of the time, the things that are

1624
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 3: truly great don't necessarily get recognized because of the way

1625
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 3: that things are built. In the same way that you're

1626
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 3: saying that there's a sort of a gatekeeper that's happened

1627
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 3: in a different way that's impacting the processing of the

1628
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:49,840
Speaker 3: art and the conception of the art, I'm saying that's

1629
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 3: also affecting why the algorithm doesn't bring greatness to as

1630
01:41:55,320 --> 01:41:58,400
Speaker 3: many people as it brings things that you know, have

1631
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:02,400
Speaker 3: merit and are truly important to have in the spectrum

1632
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 3: of things, but aren't musically great.

1633
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:09,200
Speaker 1: Okay, I just want to go back to the introversion thing.

1634
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: You've established two things, especially on television. You're doing two

1635
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 1: hundred shows a year. You got your phone whatever it is,

1636
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:23,080
Speaker 1: email tech whatever, ringing all the time. You mentioned Bill Gates. Okay,

1637
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:26,440
Speaker 1: Bill Gates is interesting because not only is he successful,

1638
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:31,679
Speaker 1: he's mega successful, and he changed the culture with the technology. Okay,

1639
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 1: my point being, you're the introvert in this case. They're

1640
01:42:36,600 --> 01:42:40,679
Speaker 1: looking for you. Can you relate to these people?

1641
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:47,759
Speaker 2: You know, I can relate to most people.

1642
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:52,960
Speaker 3: I can relate to people who don't agree with ninety

1643
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 3: eight percent of what I believe or think or how

1644
01:42:57,200 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 3: I see the world. And again, that's part of what.

1645
01:43:04,280 --> 01:43:07,400
Speaker 2: Is you know, you talk about the introversion.

1646
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:12,000
Speaker 3: I think that's part of why I'm able to relate

1647
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:15,800
Speaker 3: to a lot of people. It is because many years

1648
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:19,120
Speaker 3: of my life was spent observing people, and a lot

1649
01:43:19,160 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 3: of times I felt like I was trying to figure

1650
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 3: out how do I become a human? A normal human?

1651
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:33,000
Speaker 3: Like how do I live in the world? And everybody

1652
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 3: seems to be able to express their thoughts and emotions

1653
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:41,040
Speaker 3: to each other, why can't I? Well, maybe if I

1654
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:44,400
Speaker 3: figure out how to understand where these feelings are coming

1655
01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:49,920
Speaker 3: from from all these different people, then I'll be able

1656
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 3: to do that. And empathy comes with that, and a

1657
01:43:54,840 --> 01:44:00,720
Speaker 3: sense of wanting to be able to give everybody credence

1658
01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:04,520
Speaker 3: and a benefit of a doubt and understand their perspective

1659
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:08,800
Speaker 3: truly and thoroughly, and to to really have that sort

1660
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:13,479
Speaker 3: of face time, that sort of really authentic connection with people.

1661
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:20,520
Speaker 3: And then that consequentially it.

1662
01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:21,719
Speaker 2: It's spilled over into my approach to making music.

1663
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:24,759
Speaker 3: So then it's like, Okay, well, if I can create

1664
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:30,360
Speaker 3: these authentic exchanges and connect to people through this live

1665
01:44:31,160 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 3: musical experience and really make something that just feels like

1666
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:39,680
Speaker 3: a revival or it's like something that just connects to

1667
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:43,639
Speaker 3: the soul of people, no matter where you come from. Okay,

1668
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:49,240
Speaker 3: now fast forward that approach to music and that approach

1669
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:52,839
Speaker 3: to being in the world as a person has created

1670
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:56,720
Speaker 3: an orbit where, you know, to talk about Joe Sale,

1671
01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 3: we always talk about like how did we get here?

1672
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 2: We'll be you'll see in my orbit where.

1673
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 3: In the same room or in the same week the

1674
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:14,240
Speaker 3: calendar of meetings or events would be. It's like if

1675
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:20,200
Speaker 3: somebody took like if you took five different professions and

1676
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 3: you blended them together from five different worlds, and he

1677
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:27,040
Speaker 3: just threw darts at the profession board and it just

1678
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:30,599
Speaker 3: landed in all of these different spaces, and it's like

1679
01:45:31,720 --> 01:45:36,639
Speaker 3: what it's created a magnetism of a different kind. That's

1680
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:41,120
Speaker 3: not necessarily about celebrity, but it's about the idea of

1681
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:48,960
Speaker 3: how do you connect with people authentically and what can

1682
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:53,080
Speaker 3: be done in that space of authentic connection? And that's

1683
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 3: the common thread. Now do I relate to the people

1684
01:45:57,080 --> 01:46:05,840
Speaker 3: who I'm I'm in this sort of courting or potential

1685
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 3: collaboration with and some of them even become friends, you know.

1686
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 2: But it's not really about that.

1687
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:20,479
Speaker 3: It's about the idea of what can we do together

1688
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:24,320
Speaker 3: that is meaningful, and how can we do it together

1689
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:26,760
Speaker 3: in a way that is authentic to what.

1690
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:32,880
Speaker 2: Both sides do best. And if we can figure that

1691
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:38,200
Speaker 2: peace out For me, I'm all in. I think that that's.

1692
01:46:38,040 --> 01:46:42,200
Speaker 3: What we should be doing more of in government, in

1693
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 3: all sectors of life. Why are we separating? We need

1694
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:48,559
Speaker 3: to figure out ways to be in concert with each

1695
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 3: other and my nature, I feel like I've trained in

1696
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 3: my life to be able to put a fence to

1697
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:01,840
Speaker 3: the side in some cases even to sit and to

1698
01:47:01,960 --> 01:47:02,840
Speaker 3: try to figure out.

1699
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:06,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I know there's a human in there.

1700
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about anybody in particular right now,

1701
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:12,880
Speaker 3: just to be clear, I'm just saying in general, there's

1702
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:14,439
Speaker 3: a human, there's a soul in there.

1703
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:16,799
Speaker 2: I'm the soul doctor.

1704
01:47:17,320 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get you to tap into your soul power

1705
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:24,439
Speaker 3: to James Brown said, and we're gonna we can uh

1706
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 3: then have a real exchange. And and I you know,

1707
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 3: anybody in the world I'm willing to have, not almost anybody,

1708
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 3: I'll say, I'm willing to have a a one to

1709
01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 3: one to give an opportunity for us to have a.

1710
01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 2: True, true, true dialogue.

1711
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:58,639
Speaker 1: Okay, you've been expressing yourself here. This is about you.

1712
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:03,679
Speaker 1: Forget musicians, which is your culture, and they're different from

1713
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:07,120
Speaker 1: as a friend of mine would say, civilians. When you

1714
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:10,439
Speaker 1: meet these other people and it's somewhat transactionally, you're saying,

1715
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:12,920
Speaker 1: they know who you are, you know who they are.

1716
01:48:13,160 --> 01:48:19,719
Speaker 1: Let's see what we can accomplish forgetting the transaction, because

1717
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,439
Speaker 1: usually there's a penumber. You gotta go to dinner with them,

1718
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:26,720
Speaker 1: or you gotta go here or there, whatever. Can you

1719
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:30,240
Speaker 1: find that you can really reveal yourself or do you

1720
01:48:30,400 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: feel like I'm talk about your inner thoughts, but you

1721
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:35,639
Speaker 1: feel like these people are not going to really know

1722
01:48:36,120 --> 01:48:38,800
Speaker 1: where I'm coming from. I'm just going to service them.

1723
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to accomplish the goal and then

1724
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 1: go back to my room.

1725
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 2: I don't do all of that stuff.

1726
01:48:46,760 --> 01:48:49,280
Speaker 3: I exist fully as who I am, and that's my

1727
01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 3: barometer for if something is going to work or not.

1728
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 2: I that's my way of I really should.

1729
01:48:59,160 --> 01:49:03,679
Speaker 3: Maybe be more strategic, Perhaps some would say, I don't

1730
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:04,040
Speaker 3: think so.

1731
01:49:04,640 --> 01:49:05,040
Speaker 2: I don't.

1732
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:10,800
Speaker 3: For me to exist, that's also my superpower. For me

1733
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:15,960
Speaker 3: to exists authentically and truly be who I am in

1734
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:20,400
Speaker 3: the world, it would dampen it if I was to

1735
01:49:20,439 --> 01:49:25,559
Speaker 3: try to figure out, Okay, how do I I don't know,

1736
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:26,639
Speaker 3: how do I maneuver?

1737
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:29,559
Speaker 2: I think that's what you're getting at, like this idea of.

1738
01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm actually being less calcululated, like that you're an observer

1739
01:49:34,160 --> 01:49:39,960
Speaker 1: of humanity. You know how to connect with people. That

1740
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:43,880
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they know how to connect with you. So

1741
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:47,040
Speaker 1: theoretically you could be a situation where they think you're

1742
01:49:47,080 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 1: the greatest friend they've ever had, but they really don't

1743
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 1: know who you are.

1744
01:49:53,280 --> 01:49:56,920
Speaker 3: Well, I think that, for one, there's a certain sense

1745
01:49:56,960 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 3: of connection that you have with each person who you

1746
01:50:01,160 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 3: are close with, who you've spent time with, that is

1747
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:06,639
Speaker 3: unique to you, and no one can ever know what

1748
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 3: the vibration between you and that person is. That's something

1749
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:12,800
Speaker 3: that it's like sometimes when people see a couple and

1750
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:17,800
Speaker 3: they're like, why is she with him? And they're like,

1751
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:22,240
Speaker 3: you know that vibe, but it's how did they get together?

1752
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:22,880
Speaker 2: What is that?

1753
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 3: Well, it's not for you to know. Between those two

1754
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:31,479
Speaker 3: there's a reality and for them it's.

1755
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:32,760
Speaker 2: Real and.

1756
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:38,559
Speaker 3: It may not be the same as it is between

1757
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:40,920
Speaker 3: you and him or you and her. Are you know

1758
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 3: the kind of connection that you have varies between different people,

1759
01:50:44,160 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 3: and the depth of that connection varies. You can go

1760
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 3: deep with some people in a different way than you

1761
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:53,880
Speaker 3: can with others, but then on some more basic levels,

1762
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:55,480
Speaker 3: maybe there's not a resonance.

1763
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:57,839
Speaker 2: And that's what I've learned about people.

1764
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:02,799
Speaker 3: There's levels, and there's different It's like different kinds of songs.

1765
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:08,200
Speaker 3: There's hymns, there's lullabies, there's concer thos, there's symphonies, there's

1766
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:12,160
Speaker 3: instrumental vehicles for improvisation. And you go to this person

1767
01:51:12,160 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 3: when it's like we connect in this way when we

1768
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 3: want to play straight no chaser and take thirteen minute

1769
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:23,720
Speaker 3: excurageon like and we connect in a very deep way

1770
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:28,840
Speaker 3: in that regard. So for me, I've not limited the

1771
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:34,479
Speaker 3: experience of relationship with people and the connectivity that can

1772
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:37,120
Speaker 3: exist the cross the spectrum of humanity for me and

1773
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:40,760
Speaker 3: for other people, just because maybe there's one aspect of

1774
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 3: my life or my identity that they don't have access to. Now,

1775
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:47,960
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that you have to also know how

1776
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:53,960
Speaker 3: to protect yourself and your integrity and integraty the things

1777
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:56,360
Speaker 3: you believe and to hold the line with that and

1778
01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 3: certain things certain people shouldn't have actscess too, I'll say

1779
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:05,639
Speaker 3: it like that, Okay, so that that's true as well.

1780
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:09,160
Speaker 3: And you have to know what that is for you,

1781
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:11,960
Speaker 3: and they have to know what that is for them,

1782
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 3: And that really doesn't have anything to do with you

1783
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:16,599
Speaker 3: other than what it is, what's yours. You have to

1784
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:20,840
Speaker 3: know how to My father's really my father and my

1785
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:23,360
Speaker 3: mother in a different different ways of both you know,

1786
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:25,559
Speaker 3: they really instilled that in me, in the sense of,

1787
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 3: you know, don't you're not trying to be liked by everybody.

1788
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 3: In fact, that's not even a consideration. Yes, you should

1789
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,559
Speaker 3: give everybody a benefit of a doubt. You should try

1790
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:42,479
Speaker 3: to be able to connect with people and look at

1791
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:45,080
Speaker 3: them as a human being first, and that's what I'm saying.

1792
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:47,640
Speaker 3: But that's not the same thing as trying to be

1793
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:52,040
Speaker 3: liked by everybody or be accepted by everybody. My dad

1794
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:55,320
Speaker 3: is probably the smartest person that I know, and my

1795
01:52:55,479 --> 01:53:00,439
Speaker 3: mom is the most principled and extremely where I get

1796
01:53:00,439 --> 01:53:03,840
Speaker 3: my curiosity from. She's still learning new skills now in retirement.

1797
01:53:04,680 --> 01:53:08,559
Speaker 3: And just the different ways that they embody that it's

1798
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:13,599
Speaker 3: like you don't have to like me, and that also

1799
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:17,360
Speaker 3: ends relationships or it deepens them. It becomes like well,

1800
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 3: if you don't value this, to value that, it's not

1801
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:26,000
Speaker 3: a matter of me keeping it from you. Are you

1802
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 3: not you thinking you're my best friend and not really

1803
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:34,080
Speaker 3: knowing me or not truly knowing the depth of where

1804
01:53:34,080 --> 01:53:36,800
Speaker 3: I stand or who I am. No, I don't hide that.

1805
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:41,839
Speaker 3: It becomes a thing where it typically activates a different

1806
01:53:41,960 --> 01:53:43,000
Speaker 3: level of the connection.

1807
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:48,679
Speaker 1: Okay, circling back and finishing up. What is your pre

1808
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:52,840
Speaker 1: show routine? How do you get psyched up to the

1809
01:53:52,880 --> 01:53:56,479
Speaker 1: degree you do psych yourself up to go on stage?

1810
01:53:56,800 --> 01:53:59,600
Speaker 1: And how much is outlined? I mean, I've been to

1811
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:03,400
Speaker 1: c household name acts on tour. We're literally the set

1812
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:08,920
Speaker 1: list is on the lamited Okay, so you're out there.

1813
01:54:09,400 --> 01:54:13,600
Speaker 1: To what degree is what happens on stage is unexpected

1814
01:54:13,600 --> 01:54:13,840
Speaker 1: to you?

1815
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:19,760
Speaker 3: It's different every night. Every time. I thrive on that.

1816
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:22,960
Speaker 3: I thrive on shifting gears in the middle. I'll make

1817
01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:25,640
Speaker 3: a set list, I'll change it in the middle of

1818
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,040
Speaker 3: the show. Sometimes I won't make a set list. Mostly

1819
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:31,320
Speaker 3: I'll make set lists for the band. I don't really

1820
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:33,760
Speaker 3: like set lists. I've never been a fan of in

1821
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:36,640
Speaker 3: ear monitors. Sometimes the band will wear in ears, other

1822
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 3: times I'll wear them and enjoin them. But most of

1823
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:44,960
Speaker 3: the time I'm not wearing in ears. I'm feeling the

1824
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:48,320
Speaker 3: vibrations of the space and the musicians. Sometimes I wear

1825
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:52,520
Speaker 3: one ear in and the other ear out, just you

1826
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:55,360
Speaker 3: know that that's just an example of you know, one

1827
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:57,200
Speaker 3: thing we did for the first few shows of this tool,

1828
01:54:57,320 --> 01:55:00,320
Speaker 3: we didn't have monitors or in ears. We just played

1829
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:03,200
Speaker 3: with two side fills, two speakers on the stage pointing

1830
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 3: at the band, and we all shared one mix. And

1831
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:10,040
Speaker 3: you know, that made it where we had to depend

1832
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:11,960
Speaker 3: on each other and we had to follow each other

1833
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 3: in the moment and figure out what's the next thing

1834
01:55:14,400 --> 01:55:15,960
Speaker 3: we're gonna play, and how we're gonna play it, and

1835
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:16,720
Speaker 3: where's it going.

1836
01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:21,760
Speaker 2: And I thrive on that. You know. I've also been

1837
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:26,280
Speaker 2: one who has made shows where every second of the

1838
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:31,000
Speaker 2: show is every segment is like a beat, and it's

1839
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,360
Speaker 2: almost like paced to the second, to where if things

1840
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:40,520
Speaker 2: happen any other way, the sequence of the show won't

1841
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 2: have the.

1842
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,560
Speaker 3: Impact that I know it will have, just based on

1843
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 3: how I know people will respond. Now, there are segments

1844
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:52,960
Speaker 3: in some of the shows where maybe like a fifteen

1845
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:56,160
Speaker 3: or twenty minute segment in a two hour show that's

1846
01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:58,600
Speaker 3: like that, and I'll map it out and i'll think

1847
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:01,200
Speaker 3: about it beforehand if I'm like on the plane, or

1848
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:04,080
Speaker 3: I'll like map it out and i'll like feel it

1849
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:05,680
Speaker 3: in my body. And then i'll teach it to the

1850
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 3: band and we'll learn it and we'll drill it, and

1851
01:56:08,360 --> 01:56:10,480
Speaker 3: then that segment of the show, I know is like

1852
01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:13,400
Speaker 3: that's ironclad, that's not going to change, and I know

1853
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:15,600
Speaker 3: what the impact that it's probably gonna be before and

1854
01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:18,800
Speaker 3: after it, So then I'll like frame it with improvisation

1855
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,480
Speaker 3: the whole time. Okay, So so there's like many different

1856
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:27,720
Speaker 3: ways that I approach the performances.

1857
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:32,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, I and I can do both. You know.

1858
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:33,840
Speaker 3: One I guess you call it like more of a

1859
01:56:33,840 --> 01:56:38,360
Speaker 3: classical approach through composed and then the other is this

1860
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:42,360
Speaker 3: sort of spiritualist like you almost like a shaman in

1861
01:56:42,400 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 3: the space or a great great pastor you know, like

1862
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:49,120
Speaker 3: the greatest showman. I oftentimes think about the connection between

1863
01:56:49,680 --> 01:56:53,040
Speaker 3: the you know, the circus tent and the revival tent.

1864
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:55,960
Speaker 3: You know, there's just kind of connectivity of that and

1865
01:56:57,080 --> 01:56:59,240
Speaker 3: tent culture and and and.

1866
01:57:01,160 --> 01:57:03,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I'm trying not to go on tangents so much.

1867
01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:06,240
Speaker 3: The thing about my therapy is now my thoughts to

1868
01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 3: just spill out of my mouth, but.

1869
01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:09,360
Speaker 2: They're even going.

1870
01:57:09,440 --> 01:57:11,360
Speaker 3: There's more that are in my mind that I'm not

1871
01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:15,880
Speaker 3: I'm trying to like put it into nice answers bite

1872
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:16,840
Speaker 3: size for the press.

1873
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:23,320
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, You're much more organized than

1874
01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 1: you think you are. You tend to circle back to

1875
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 1: the next point, and you're digressing less. I don't know

1876
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:32,640
Speaker 1: what's going on in your brain, but it does not

1877
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:36,320
Speaker 1: perceive this scattershot on this end, that's for sure.

1878
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 2: Well, I'm grateful to hear that, you know, I'm just

1879
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:44,840
Speaker 2: like it's it's.

1880
01:57:46,240 --> 01:57:51,640
Speaker 3: It's such a beautiful gift for for for for me

1881
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:56,480
Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to to share music with people

1882
01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,920
Speaker 3: on stage and in a way that makes they were

1883
01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:04,000
Speaker 3: really value and it really makes their life a little

1884
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:04,560
Speaker 3: bit better.

1885
01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:07,000
Speaker 2: And it also for me.

1886
01:58:07,360 --> 01:58:11,080
Speaker 3: The flip side of that is in the show, I

1887
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:18,040
Speaker 3: can be so exhausted and nervous and overstimulated and just

1888
01:58:18,160 --> 01:58:23,880
Speaker 3: piled on, and in the show something will happen that

1889
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:27,320
Speaker 3: can't be played. It's not in the set list. It's

1890
01:58:27,400 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 3: just the endless variety of the creator. And it will

1891
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:38,440
Speaker 3: be this therapeutic expression for me that then reaches people

1892
01:58:38,640 --> 01:58:42,440
Speaker 3: on the deepest level in the show, and that is

1893
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:45,600
Speaker 3: ultimately what I'm looking for in every show, even when

1894
01:58:45,640 --> 01:58:47,880
Speaker 3: I map out the beats and I make something that

1895
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:50,640
Speaker 3: is like because I don't even like the idea of

1896
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:53,800
Speaker 3: playing songs in the show. That's another reason why it's

1897
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,600
Speaker 3: hard for me to really I've had to learn how

1898
01:58:56,640 --> 01:58:59,640
Speaker 3: to form my mind around the idea of a song

1899
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:05,000
Speaker 3: and promoting songs and writing songs because I've always thought

1900
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:09,120
Speaker 3: about music and live performance in particular, and being an

1901
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:12,280
Speaker 3: artist in that regard and seeing myself as a front person,

1902
01:59:12,760 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 3: as someone who's creating moments with music. So that could

1903
01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:19,800
Speaker 3: mean there could be ten songs in the span of

1904
01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:22,360
Speaker 3: two minutes, or that could mean we could play one

1905
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:25,160
Speaker 3: song for ten minutes, or that could mean we could

1906
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:28,520
Speaker 3: deconstruct the song in a way that you know what

1907
01:59:28,640 --> 01:59:32,160
Speaker 3: is what I appreciate about bands like Fish, you know, like.

1908
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:34,560
Speaker 2: The jam band World or whatever you want to call that.

1909
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:38,720
Speaker 3: But like and my cousin, you know, Russell, my late cousin,

1910
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:42,840
Speaker 3: Russell Baptiste Junor played in the Meters and played in

1911
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:45,800
Speaker 3: that world. I would constantly beat under his drum throne

1912
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:48,320
Speaker 3: watching him play in that kind of space, but just

1913
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:53,680
Speaker 3: in generous idea of a song and a set list

1914
01:59:53,760 --> 01:59:57,800
Speaker 3: of songs and like, let me play my song. I

1915
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 3: understand the power of that, the value that that That's

1916
02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:05,040
Speaker 3: just never really been me. It's about how do I

1917
02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:08,800
Speaker 3: put and create a moment. And I use song to

1918
02:00:08,960 --> 02:00:12,880
Speaker 3: illustrate a message and create a moment and build an

1919
02:00:12,920 --> 02:00:17,320
Speaker 3: atmosphere that we can all step into. And then that

1920
02:00:17,520 --> 02:00:23,080
Speaker 3: moment is explosive in a way that I think a

1921
02:00:23,240 --> 02:00:24,200
Speaker 3: song would limit.

1922
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:26,200
Speaker 2: A song capture you in a different way.

1923
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:29,760
Speaker 3: That's like somebody speaking to your heart and you and

1924
02:00:29,280 --> 02:00:32,200
Speaker 3: you and artists, like a song is like a friend,

1925
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:40,720
Speaker 3: whereas a moment is you're cultivating a space. It's like heaven. Uh,

1926
02:00:41,520 --> 02:00:43,880
Speaker 3: It's just it's so difficult for me to explain in

1927
02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:47,600
Speaker 3: music terms. But that's what I want to do in

1928
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:50,520
Speaker 3: the live show and that's what we've been doing and

1929
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:51,840
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll continue to do.

1930
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:56,080
Speaker 1: Well. It's been heaven talking to you. I mean, I

1931
02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:58,920
Speaker 1: got a lot of conversations that are not stimulating for

1932
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:02,040
Speaker 1: people who are very base, Dick, but you're a deep thinker.

1933
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:04,879
Speaker 1: I love talking to you, and I know my audience

1934
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:07,840
Speaker 1: will enjoy this. So thanks so much John.

1935
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:12,920
Speaker 3: Oh Man, thank your so my voice is so low

1936
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:15,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh thanks man.

1937
02:01:16,880 --> 02:01:20,320
Speaker 1: Okay, until next time. This is Bob left six