1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Hi there. Before this episode begins, I want to make 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: sure you know that this series gets into some things 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: that might be triggering to some listeners, specifically depression and suicide. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: If you or someone that you know is struggling with 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: suicidal thoughts, please seek assistance from a mental health professional, 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: or visit the National Institute of Mental Health website at 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: n I m H dot ni H dot g o 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: V for resources. If you're in crisis right now, you 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: can call one hundred to seven three talk that's eight, 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: or text Hello to one to talk to someone right away. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Picture you're on a roller coaster. You 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: sit down, strap yourself in. It's the moment of decision. 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: There's no going back. The ride begins. First, there's a 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: small drop, just enough to give the car the momentum 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: it needs before the real start, the big climb. The 16 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: car hooks into the chain with a jolt, and the 17 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:08,199 Speaker 1: chain begins pulling you up. You rise slowly, so slow, 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: it's torturous. Maybe you squeeze your eyes shut, overcome with 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: delicious anticipation and just listen to the clanking and clicking 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: as you ascend. Or maybe you survey your surroundings, seeing 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: farther and farther out. The higher you go either way, 22 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: it begins to feel like the climb will never end, 23 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: But eventually it does. You reach the top, you know 24 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: what comes next. First, though, the car sits at the apex, 25 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: it's as if the whole world has come to a standstill, 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: like you're so high up the laws of time no 27 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: longer apply. A moment feels like ours. Everything is absolutely motionless. 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: Maybe you hear some distant screaming far off, some people 29 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: on another ride across the part, but up here it's 30 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: like you're suspended and amber a moment of perfect, terrifying stillness. 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: I think that's kind of where we are with this show. 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: For the last three episodes, we've been working up the 33 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: coaster together. It's rickety beams starting to prove they can 34 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: hold weight. But now we're here. It's the point where 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to do the big reveal, the big drop. 36 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: But before I do, before I finally tell you how, 37 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: Yes I did connect with Alice, and yes she did 38 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: indeed sound just like Britney spears, and yes, our conversation 39 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: filled in a missing peace i'd felt since getting alex 40 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: Is Goodbye email. I want to sit here with you 41 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: for a second at the top the pinnacle. I want 42 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: to look out at the world we've got in front 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: of us and tell you the truth of how I'm 44 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: feeling at this stage in our story. The truth is 45 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: that I'm terrified. Yeah, I'm the guy who walks at 46 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: the front of my friend group at every hunted house, 47 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: but I'm also the person who has a hard time 48 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: putting my faith in anything, and right now I'm scared 49 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: to take the leap. See. When I was just looking 50 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: for Alice, it was like I was playing a game, 51 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: submitting to one of Alex's fantasies. But now it's real. 52 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: Alice is within reach. She's a real person, and I'm 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: afraid she might slip between my fingers, just like Alex didn't. 54 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: Until now, I've been telling this neat story about trying 55 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: to find the unfindable playing investigator in one of Alex's 56 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: fantastical games. But here we are. I found what I 57 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: was looking for, and it feels like it could all 58 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: fall apart at any moment. I'm Chris Stedmond and this 59 00:03:53,360 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: is unread episode four. Give me a sign open still say. 60 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: When I first find Alice, the steaks don't feel nearly 61 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: so high. That's because I assume I'm just reaching out 62 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: to a copycat, someone who took her Twitter user name 63 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: after she disappeared. I'm looking for someone named Alice, I write, 64 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: someone who sounds like Britney spears and used to appear 65 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: in voice chat rooms with Britney fans many years ago. 66 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: A friend of mine used to text with her, I say, 67 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: and he died, so I'm trying to track her down. 68 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: I'm assuming your name was just inspired by her, but 69 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you know anything about her or where 70 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: I might find her. But to my surprise, she says 71 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: that it could have been her. She also says there 72 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: was another person with a similar user name, though, and 73 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: people would mix them up. She asks who my friend was, 74 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: and I tell her his name was Alex. There are 75 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: only two Alex's in my phone, she says, and I'm 76 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: still in touch with both. But then she realizes she 77 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: has a third Alex in her phone. I'm actually talking 78 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 1: to show she when it happens, hold on, Oh my god, 79 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm sorry she did. What did she say? She said, 80 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: I have and more Alex in my contacts, and he 81 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: went by Alex Germanada, like Lady Gaga's last name. Could 82 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: that be him? You think question mark, Yeah, that's possible. 83 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: He always used celebrity names as a pseudonym show. She suggests, 84 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,679 Speaker 1: I give Alice the area code for Alex's phone number 85 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: to see if it's a match. A little over nine 86 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: hours later, Alice responds again, saying it's not. My heart 87 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: sinks he must have been talking with someone else, maybe 88 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: the other person Alice mentioned, the one people sometimes confuse 89 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: her with. But then a couple of minutes later she 90 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: sends another message, wait, and then, oh my god. Could 91 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: he have gone by ambient Ambient short for Ambient Hollow, 92 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: The same name Show, she tells me, was one of 93 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: Alex's first email addresses, the same name he used on 94 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: the Brittany forum when he met Dua. So I asked 95 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: Alice again about the area code, this time for Ambient. 96 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: She responds, and it's a match. Just to be sure, 97 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: I asked her to give me the next three numbers 98 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: of his phone number. Again a match there she was. 99 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: Just over a year after Alex's death. I found her. 100 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Finding Alice feels like sitting at the top of one 101 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: of Alex's beloved coasters, the same mix of euphoria and dread. 102 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: You get right before that drop At first time overjoyed, 103 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: caught up in giddy shock. On some level, I never 104 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: thought i'd actually find her, certainly not as soon as 105 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: I did. But then very quickly the dread rushes in. 106 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: I've just broken the news that someone she knew had died. 107 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: I had been living with the reality of Alex's death 108 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: for a year, but for her it was brand new information. 109 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: Her next messages are devastating. They had been good friends. 110 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: She says, she can't believe he's gone. I offer what 111 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: little I can, my sympathy and a willingness to answer 112 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: any questions she has. We keep chatting late into the 113 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: night and early morning. At one point I pose the question, 114 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: would she be willing to do an interview so that 115 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: I could ask her about Alex, their relationship, and who 116 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: she is. She replies, yeah, okay, I'll do it for him. 117 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm overcome. We set a time to talk in a 118 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: few days. We message on and off the next day, 119 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: talking about Alex and our grief over his death. The 120 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: day after that, though, I opened my d M s 121 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: to see a new message, my heart sinks again. She's 122 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: pulling out she wants to help, but she doesn't want 123 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: to do an interview. I understand, I say, emphasizing that 124 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: I don't want her to do anything she's uncomfortable with. 125 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: But I tell her I hope we can still chat 126 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: so I can learn more about her connection with Alex. 127 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: I send my response and stuffed my phone back into 128 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: my pocket, terrified that the next time I pull it 129 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: out to look at my d MS, she'll be gone. 130 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: As I wait to hear back from Alice, I'm drowning 131 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: an uncertainty. It feels a little bit like the day 132 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: after I got Alex's goodbye email, when I waited to 133 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: hear if my friend who was prone to disappearing had 134 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: disappeared for the last time. I had no clue what 135 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: to do with myself. The day after getting his email, 136 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: after lying awake in bed most of the night, I 137 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: got up early and just wandered Minneapolis with my dog, 138 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: trudging without direction in a days. Eventually, while wandering, my 139 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: mind drifted to Alex's visit to Minnesota. How the one 140 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: thing he wanted to do was ride those indoor coasters 141 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: at the Mall of America. I wanted to feel close 142 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: to him, so I decided to go ride the ones 143 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: he loved. His favorite was the rock Bottom Plunge. The 144 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: name is funny, but that's not why Alex loved it. 145 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: It's probably the most intense ride the mall has to offer. 146 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: It begins with a steep climb basically ninety degrees straight 147 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: up to a peak just below the theme park's glass ceiling. 148 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: That peak is followed by a sheer drop, one so 149 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: steep and fast it gives you the momentum you need 150 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: to make it through the loop that follows. It was 151 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: a week day and the mall was pretty empty. There 152 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: was no line, and I basically had the coaster to myself. 153 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: As the ride slowly climbed, I felt all my anxiety 154 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: over the unknowns of Alex's death grow. But eventually I 155 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: reached the top. It was perfectly quiet and then the drop. 156 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: For just a moment, as we plummeted straight down to 157 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: the ground, I felt all my uncertainties leave, like we 158 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: were going fast enough to outrun them. As the coaster 159 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: carried me around the loop, turning the world on its access, 160 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: I swore I could hear Alex's laugh so infectious I 161 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: couldn't help but join in After the ride, I went 162 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: to one of the food courts, where I got confirmation 163 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: that they found his body. I stayed there for a while, 164 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: my food got cold. Eventually I walked back to the 165 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: theme park in the mall's center, not to ride this time, 166 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: just to watch the coaster loop again and again. Alex 167 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: had two coaster tattoos, and I'd later commemorate this moment 168 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: by getting one of them while face timing with shows Do, 169 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: I got the other. In the months that followed, both 170 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: Beth and show She would visit Minnesota and ride the 171 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: same ster with me. It became iconography for our shared grief, 172 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: a totem to the joy Alex brought into our lives, 173 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: to how he could always make us laugh, even in 174 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: the moments when everything felt upside down. While I wait 175 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: for Alice's next message, I go digging back into all 176 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: the material Alex left behind. He left a lot, all 177 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: organized for us. Here's show she the keeper of his files. 178 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: Everything was very purposeful. He had all of his important 179 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: paperwork all labeled. It was very specific. I've never heard honestly, 180 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: and I'm sure it exists, but I've never heard of 181 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: anyone who did so much sort of purposeful planning. It's 182 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: not common. I'm part of so many suicide grief groups, 183 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 1: and I mean, I haven't even heard of one other 184 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: story that's like his. Alex not only ordered all of 185 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: his documents, belongings, and digital files, he also put together 186 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff for us, playlists of his favorite 187 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: songs on Spotify, a collection of YouTube videos that made 188 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: him laugh or helped him relax, and a Google folder, 189 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: all of which he directed us to, and his goodbye emails. 190 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: The Google folder has a lot of photos from his life, 191 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: but there are also a ton of pictures of Brittany 192 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: memes and screenshots of his online antics. It's where I 193 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: found Alex's prying pregnancy Facebook post, and there are also 194 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: grabs of his many suspended Twitter accounts. My favorite was 195 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: the one he made pretending to be customer service for 196 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: six Flags. He began as a parody, but then he 197 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: started actually helping people. Most of the screenshots and memes 198 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: are snapshots of his online play but three of them 199 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: feel very different from the rest. The first of these 200 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: is a meme. It's a close up photo of a 201 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: person whispering into someone's ear, followed by another photo of 202 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: arm hairs standing on end, a common meme for Matt. 203 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: The accompanying text, I won't abandon you when your mental 204 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: illness acts up. This was something Alex talked to me 205 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: about several times, how some people only wanted to be 206 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: around him when he was at his most functioning. James 207 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: remembers the time they were getting ready to hang out 208 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: after an extended time apart, and how shortly before he left, 209 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: Alex texted him to give him a heads up that 210 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: he wasn't feeling like he would be the life of 211 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: the party that day. He was apologetic and said he 212 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: understood if James didn't want to meet up to hear 213 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: him mentioned that he was self conscious about hanging out 214 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: with me because he wasn't going to be like you 215 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: know on in Big Air quotes um, that he wasn't 216 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: going to be as fun to be around. It broke 217 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: my heart to hear him say that. To feel that 218 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: you have to be able to perform just to be 219 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: around people, and that's the only like valid reason to 220 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: see they see to be around you is um, that's tough. 221 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: There are two more things that jump out at me 222 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: and Alex's Google folder. One is a quote from the 223 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: Ascent of Humanity, a book by Charles Eisenstein that will 224 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: come back to in a second. The other is a 225 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: news clipping about a British man who took his life 226 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: after he was denied government assistance despite his physical disabilities 227 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: and mental illness. Because this man was denied assistance, the 228 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: clipping said, he couldn't afford to eat or pay rent, 229 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: and shortly before he was set to be evicted from 230 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: his home, ended up taking his life. While he was alive, 231 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: Alex regularly tried to seek out care, often at our urging, 232 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: but ultimately felt like he couldn't get the assistance he 233 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: needed in the health care system as it exists right now. 234 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: He also died with a great deal of debt. Leaving 235 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: this news clipping among his photos and memes felt like 236 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: a clear message about how the world treats people who 237 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: struggle about how it sometimes isn't enough to have a 238 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: support system of friends, like Alex did after finding it. 239 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: I tell Shoshi about the news clipping that Eisenstein quote 240 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: comes up to. I think that was one thing that 241 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: maybe a lot of people didn't really know about him, 242 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: was how deeply he really felt about society and about 243 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: the way society treated a lot of people, especially those 244 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: who were destitute or ill, whether physically or mentally. He 245 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: felt very strongly about that. It actually reminds me. There 246 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: was one other thing in UM the Google folder. It's 247 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: this quote from a book, and it says, we find 248 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: in our culture a loneliness and hunger for authenticity that 249 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: may well be unsurpassed in history. We try to build community, 250 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: not realizing that mere intention is not enough. When separation 251 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: is built into the very social and physical infrastructure of 252 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: our society, to the extent that this infrastructure is intact 253 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: in our lives, we will never experience community. Wow, it 254 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: just made me think about between that and then this 255 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: um this screenshot of this news story. I think that 256 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: it was not not a factor in Alex's decision, that 257 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: his life was difficult and the world was not set 258 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: up for someone like him to thrive. I one think 259 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: that that was a factor. And I look at these 260 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: things in the Google folder and I see little like 261 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: breadcrumbs in a way of being like, this is part 262 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: of why I made this decision, you know. Yeah, I 263 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: think that he left those things specifically for that reason. 264 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't just leave some random news article 265 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: or you know, page of a book with all of 266 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: these pictures. What he chose to leave was very specific, 267 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: which does bring back the al you know, I mean, 268 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: he was very specific. UM. I do really think that 269 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that he did do what he 270 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: did was he had a series a tech it for society. 271 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons to hate the world 272 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: as it exists right now, especially when you struggle with 273 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: mental health. There are just so many obstacles. After Alex died, 274 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: I couldn't stop thinking about Alice. But I also couldn't 275 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: stop thinking about all the challenges he faced, about how 276 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: there are so many barriers for people who struggle in 277 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: the ways Alex did. And while waiting to hear from 278 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: Alice makes me feel uncertain thinking about Alex's obstacles fills 279 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: me with rage. Whether or not I can talk to Alice. 280 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to someone who can help me 281 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: understand how we might better support people in Alex's position. 282 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: Um I v staclo um I use he him pronouns. 283 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: I work as hotline program director at trans Lifeline, which 284 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: is a nationwide US trans lad nonprofit that does director 285 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: of US work. I reached out to trans Lifeline for 286 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: a few reasons. Though what first caught my attention about 287 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: them is that they appear to be the only crisis 288 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: line that has a no non consensual intervention policy, meaning 289 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: they will not call the cops on someone who doesn't 290 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: want them to. I V and I discussed why people 291 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: in Alex's situation so often fall through the cracks. We 292 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: talked for a long time, and I'm going to play 293 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: just a little of our conversation without interruption because I 294 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: found what I V shared so helpful. So a big 295 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: part of the reason I think why suicidality is viewed 296 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: and presented the way that it is here in particular, 297 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: is because realistically speaking, right, let's say, like let's take 298 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: us as trans people, it is a very rational response 299 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: to not want to be alive in a society that 300 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: doesn't want you to be alive. Right, That's a very 301 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: normal thing. But the way that it's portrayed is that 302 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: you're having this crazy, irrational moment that will just pass 303 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 1: with the right amount of intervention and like the right 304 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: amount of like keeping you from doing whatever you feel 305 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 1: you need to do. And so I think that in 306 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: order to address suicidality and address mental health crisis, especially 307 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: like from you know, what's called minority stress, right, Like 308 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: from the experiences that marginalized people have in the society 309 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: day in and day out. It would require society to 310 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: recognize that it is profoundly unjust. Right, It would require 311 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: society to recognize that suicidality and crisis are normal and 312 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: rational responses to the way that people are being treated. 313 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: And that I think is the root of actually addressing crisis. 314 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Is people need to have social rights, people need to 315 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: have economic rights. Yeah, this is a really reductive way 316 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: of putting it, but it's like making mental health care 317 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: proactive instead of just reactive. Right, And then if you 318 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: have that fundamental understanding, right, I think it's a lot 319 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: easier to build systems that are actually based on empathy 320 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: and based on actual understanding. Um. You know, if you 321 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: look at mental health responses that exist in other countries, 322 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: they don't involve police at all. You know, there's profound 323 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: flaws with every system, there's profound flaws with every type 324 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: of checking in on a person. But I think that 325 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, one of the best things we can do, 326 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: and this is truly you know, it's a band aid 327 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: on a huge, huge, gaping wound of injustice in this country. 328 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: Just be there for each other. What's been your experience 329 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: with this? You know, like, have you had conversations about 330 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: other friends that your friend left behind? Obviously, you know, 331 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: one of the things many people experience after someone ends 332 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: their life is feelings of regret or guilt. Is there 333 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: something I could have done differently? I've gone through all 334 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: of that um and and I don't want to sort 335 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: of just dismiss those feelings either. I want to take 336 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: them seriously and say, Okay, what would I learn? What 337 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: would I take from this and apply to my relationships 338 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: moving forward? Are there moments when I, you know, I 339 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: wish I would have asked more questions or you know, 340 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: responded in another way, And so, you know, I just 341 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: find myself thinking, like, on an individual level, how do 342 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: I want my behavior to be towards the people I 343 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: love moving forward? But also on a systemic level, what 344 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: about this society failed alex? And what would I like 345 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: to see transformed? I guess, yeah, I think those are 346 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: all really good questions. And I think, you know, it's 347 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: very easy, right in retrospect to find ways that something 348 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: could have been in your power right to to adjust 349 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: or to change um. And it's useful to think going forward, 350 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: like how can I be more intentional about like listening 351 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: to or being there for my friends and loved ones? 352 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: You know, what are things that I could be paying 353 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: attention to in terms of just being a better source 354 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: of support, not necessarily with like the lens towards my 355 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: friends might die if I don't do this, but just 356 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: in general, right because we're all going through absolutely horrific 357 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: times right now. We're all struggling right now, you know, 358 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: in different ways. In terms of how to have better 359 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: conversations about this. I think it's just a matter of 360 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: putting the blame where it belongs. It's very, very very 361 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: easy for us when we're talking to a person we 362 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: care about in crisis, to blame the person in crisis 363 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: or to take the onus on yourself right and say, oh, 364 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: there's maybe maybe there's something I can do, because it 365 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: helps you feel in control, It helps you feel like 366 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: there must be something that this person can do to 367 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: pull themselves up by their bootstraps and not feel this way. 368 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: But I think that acknowledging that we exist under very 369 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: unjust and deeply traumatizing circumstances especially for marginalized people. UM 370 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: helps us to have more candid, more honest, and in 371 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: the end, more fruitful conversations about how to survive it. 372 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: A big part of why I'm so scared Alice might 373 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: disappear is that we've connected online, a space that can 374 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: be immensely freeing, as it was for Alex, but that 375 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: also makes it easy to disappear. I asked Ivy about 376 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: why people seek support in spaces where they can be anonymous, 377 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: like the Internet. If you know that there is a 378 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: possibility that if you say the wrong thing, somebody's going 379 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: to come and either interact with you against your consent, 380 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: or take you away somewhere, bring law enforcement to your door, 381 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: you're just simply less likely to trust that resource, and 382 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: you're less likely to be honest with somebody who's supposed 383 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: to be supporting you. So truly, that's really the foundational 384 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: element of that trust. Ultimately, I think that's why Alex 385 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: went online in search of anonymous spaces where he could 386 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: share what he was struggling with in ways he didn't 387 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: even always share with those of us who knew him offline. 388 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: He could trust them to keep his secrets. It's also 389 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: why I want to talk to Alice, not to ask 390 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: for his secrets, but to find out if that's true, 391 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: if they shared that kind of trust. But I completely 392 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: understand that she has no reason to trust me. I 393 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: tell the Thor Daniels group that Alice says she's pulling 394 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: out of our interview. Hoping to put her at ease, 395 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: do I records a video appealing to her directly for 396 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: me to pass along. It opens with him holding a 397 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 1: banana to his ear like a phone. Oh hey, banana, 398 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: Alice A long time not see? This is actually not 399 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: a prop, but I do commedy well. I'm here to 400 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: give you pros and cons of being on Where's Alice 401 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: episode on the podcast. First of all, it has your 402 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: name in it, so your nickname, so I think the 403 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: star should always show up. That's like coming sense. Second 404 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: of all, a minute I just did in my part 405 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: with Chris and it was like a chill vibe. So um, 406 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: I was in shed on tying each other when you 407 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: were with Alex And let me tell you, like, the 408 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: only thing I would really like for us to collaborate 409 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: on the show is to bring the memories back. You know, 410 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: people can take everything away from you, but they but 411 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: they can never take memories away. And now that Alex 412 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: is gone, it's kind of like something that we all 413 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: just have his memories and well our members of him. 414 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: It would be weird if we have his memories, cause, 415 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,239 Speaker 1: like del I don't know what I'm saying, but what 416 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is that it was such a 417 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: fantasy that you perform in that tiny chot because we 418 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: thought for a minute it was real, Like is it 419 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: really Brittany? You know about people? Maybe it will give 420 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: people like moment about they listen to it and like, 421 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: don't you love that moment? I do. Later that day 422 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: while I wait for her to respond, James mentions he's 423 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: found something interesting in one of the last text Alex 424 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: sent him about a year before he ended his life. 425 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: As it turns out, it's a photo of Alex next 426 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: to a taxidermy bear in a pink wig. We hop 427 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: on video chat to talk about it. He said to selfie, 428 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: I said, you look great, but can we also please 429 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: talk about the bear in the pink wig behind you? 430 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: What's her name? Um? And he said Alice? He said 431 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: what he said, Alice? What the hell? The skeptic in 432 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: me wants to be like, Alice is a common name, 433 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: but the other part of me is like, even if 434 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: it's just subconscious, the fact that this name Alice is 435 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: like what springs to mind for him when you're like, 436 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: what's the name of this bear in the Brittany wig? Well, 437 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: that's the thing. Like, immediately after he said the bear's 438 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: name is Alice, he sent me a photo of a 439 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: closer shot of the bear in the pink wig, and 440 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: then photo shopped really poorly. Right next to it is 441 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: Britney Spears in the pink wig. Like it's not a coincidence. 442 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: It might seem trivial, but to me, it feels like 443 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: confirmation that Alice really was still on Alex's mind. In 444 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: the end, I want to tell her about it, but 445 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: as far as I know, she's still not planning on talking. 446 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: Midway into our chat, James and I take a bathroom break. 447 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: When I get back to my computer, I have a 448 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: new notification. Are you there? Hey, I'm back if you are, 449 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: I just sat down. First of all, Okay, I have 450 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: to share this because it literally has just happened right 451 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: now as we're talking. But I just heard back from Alice. 452 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: She's watched to do his video. She said, Oh, sweetheart, 453 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: thank him so much for trying to help me gain 454 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: the strength to participate in this. I appreciate it more 455 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: than y'll know. I'm just extremely anxious when it comes 456 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: to this stuff. That's why I never came back, like 457 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: never came back online. She was gone for years and 458 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: she only just came back, like right when I was 459 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: looking for her. Oh gosh, I'm just I've had a 460 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: stomach ache for the last three days straight. I can't 461 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I'm not going to respond her immediately 462 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: because I feel like this is such an online thing. 463 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm responding to her too quickly. It's 464 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: like I'm texting with somebody who I just met on 465 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: an app or something. I'm like feeling like I'm responding 466 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: too quickly. I don't want to be. I'm trying to 467 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: play it cool, you know, like you're texting Alex on Instagram, 468 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: like afraid he's just going to disappear good. I don't 469 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: end up waiting all that long because I'm afraid she'll 470 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: slip between my fingers. We're still technically scheduled to talk 471 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: the next morning, but as we chat, she's cag about 472 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: whether she'll show just two hours before the time we 473 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: originally said. She says she'll be there. I decided to 474 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: go for a walk to calm down. It's January and 475 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: the ground is coated in ice from a melt and refreeze. 476 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: I'm nervous, I'm cold, I'm holding a piping hot coffee, 477 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: and I wipe out hard. My left knee is bruised 478 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: and blood blisters are forming on the hand. I used 479 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: to try and catch myself, but I'm able to get 480 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: up and hobble home. There's no way I'm missing this call. 481 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: I sit down at my computer and stare at the 482 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: screen with zoom open. I'm hesitant to do anything else 483 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: while I wait in case. Alice only flits on the 484 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: screen for a second and I miss her. A few 485 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: minutes after our agreed upon meeting time, another user appears 486 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: in the room. Like me, they've got their video turned off, 487 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: but unlike my blank zoom avatar, there's an image the 488 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: photo of Brittany in that Alice in Wonderland Halloween costume. 489 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: You have to forgive me, but I know that you 490 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: were expressing how nervous you were. I don't know if 491 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: it helps any but I'm nervous to talk to you too. 492 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: It's really sweet that you too, work so hard to 493 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: find me, you know, and tell me. I just feel 494 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: like there was a reason why he, you know, sent 495 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: me the audio of you guys talking um in his 496 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: goodbye email, and I just really wanted to find you. 497 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: So I'm just very emotional about having found you, and 498 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your openness to talking with me, so 499 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah. Do you know I really cared about him. 500 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: That voice, it's Alice, it's really her. When you contracted me, 501 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: I still didn't know what his real name was, but 502 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: that didn't matter. You know. That's so interesting though, because 503 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: you guys talked about such personal stuff. Yeah, yeah, we would, 504 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: but not the not the small stock details, No, no, 505 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: nothing like that. So was it mostly like about stuff 506 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: that you guys were struggling with or just like sharing 507 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: where you were at? Sometimes it was um, but sometimes 508 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: it was also just you know, our favorite movies and 509 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: just music and yeah, or Taco Bell. Yeah we're talking 510 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah, he loved Taco Bell. It's weird, 511 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: so weird to talk about him like this, you know, 512 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: like in past tense, and it's hard just can't believe it. 513 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: We talked about our grief for a while, But I 514 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: also have a million questions. I asked about her voice. 515 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: It's really how she talks, she says. I ask if 516 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: she's brittany. She says she's not. I asked if she 517 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: knew she sounded like her before the chats. She had 518 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: a sense before a friend encouraged her to join in, 519 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: she says, but it wasn't until she was there that 520 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: she realized just how similar they sound. But mostly I 521 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: want to know about her relationship with Alex. This was 522 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: no fleeting connection, she explains. They kept in touch for years, 523 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: mostly over text, but they would also talk on the phone, 524 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: sometimes for hours. They understood one another in a very 525 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: special way, she says. The conversations were like therapy open honest. No, 526 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: he really understood. But I was going through like we 527 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: had similar issues really, you know, with a deep depression 528 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. You know, he really understood when 529 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, they try to understand, 530 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: but they don't, you know, if they haven't gone through 531 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: that type of depression. And there's just so much you know, 532 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: therapy can do because you know, they're professionals and stuff 533 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: like that. But when it comes to like a person 534 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: who really like understands, you know, there's nothing like that, 535 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: nothing can be that. Is that part of why you 536 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: would go online? Like were you going into because I 537 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: know that's something Alex did, was he would go online 538 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: to like connect with people and there was almost something 539 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: about the anonymity of it that helped him feel more 540 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: open to be able to share. Is that was that 541 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: kind of your experience too? Yeah? I think so. And 542 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: because of circumstances like I didn't really have access to 543 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: my friends and stuff like that, so I would go 544 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: on there and I would, like I had friends there. 545 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: We would you know, we would hang out and it's 546 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: like talk about all these things, you know, and it 547 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: didn't matter really that it was on the internet because 548 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: it felt it felt real. I mean, it is real. Um. 549 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: You said when you talked a couple of times, it 550 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: was like for hours. Was that was it like one 551 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: of those things where you just sort of almost lose 552 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: track of time because the conversation is going so many ways. Yes, 553 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: sort of like you know when you're in love, you know, 554 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: you lose track of time and you start talking and 555 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: nothing and like nothing can stop you it's kind of 556 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: like that. But obviously where you love. I mean, it 557 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: sounds like you guys loved each other. Yeah, I loved him. 558 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: Alex and Alice fell out of touch when he dropped 559 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: out of most everyone else's lives. But as it turns out, 560 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: it's in part because Alice changed her number around the 561 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: same time Alex did. Can stop thinking about it, you know, like, 562 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: why did I change my number that last time? Exactly 563 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: when he did. He couldn't find me and I couldn't 564 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: find him. Both of us just thought, you know, the 565 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: other one one in space. And the thing is he 566 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: did not want to be found, you know, I mean, 567 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: that was what he wanted, was to disappear. You know. 568 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: I tried texting him and I I just never heard back. 569 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: He had a very dark view of the world sometimes. 570 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: Can you say more about that? I'm interested in what 571 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: he shared with you about it. I don't know if 572 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: he thought this all the time, but sometimes he would say, 573 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: you know that the world was an evil place and 574 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: he wasn't happy. Yeah, try to tell him not to 575 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: be so negative. You know, Alison Alex would share their 576 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: darker truths with one another when they talked, because that's 577 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: just how they both were. They would talk about the 578 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: big things, their mental health, their views of the world, 579 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: the meaning of life. Sometimes like it was so deep, 580 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: like about God or the universe or stuff like that. 581 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: She loved listening to him talk about anything. It's hard 582 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: to find the words to describe him. Like you said, 583 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: he was very unique. He was very mysterious and really sweet. 584 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: M very smart, very very smart, one of the smartest people. 585 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: He had an opinion about everything. It wasn't unusual for 586 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: them to go awhile without talking, though. They would drift apart, 587 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: sometimes for really long stretches, but they would always find 588 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: their way back to one another eventually. Whenever they reunited, 589 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: they dive right back into the deep end. He didn't 590 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: like small talk, you know, so, No he didn't. We never, 591 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, did that, how are you? And what's going 592 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: on with you and stuff like that. We would just 593 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: jump right into conversation. He had no taste for small 594 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: talk at all and just wanted to talk about what 595 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: was real. Yeah, I was really like that. That's why 596 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: he kept us in this life. Yeah, I think so. 597 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't all serious though. Alex always knew how to 598 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: make Alice laugh. He knew when to be the funny 599 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: guy totally. I think he could feel it if you 600 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: were in a bad place. He would offer his humor 601 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: to Alice as a gift, like he did for me 602 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: in all the video messages and memes he sent whenever 603 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: I was having a hard time. But while some people 604 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: made Alex feel like they only valued him when he 605 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: was the life of the party, he didn't have to 606 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: put up a front with Alice. I think that he 607 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: knew that he didn't have to be the funny tie 608 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: with me. It's bittersweet, but I am so grateful to 609 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: know that she and Alex really were friends, that it 610 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just some random brief interaction years ago. I still 611 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: can't believe I really thought I wasn't going to find you. 612 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that I did. I wonder if there's 613 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: a reason that he chose to find me. Yeah, I 614 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe he maybe didn't give up because he 615 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: knew it would be hard. He knew it would drive 616 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: me up the wall. I know I've said this like 617 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: twenty times, but I really just I'm so sorry. Yeah, 618 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: So okay, hi everyone, Um, So I did talk to 619 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: Alice this morning. Did just Moments after I've hung up 620 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: with Alice, I'm on a call with the Thor Daniels group, 621 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: who were all eagerly waiting to hear from me. So 622 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: we talked literally up till ten minutes before I got 623 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: on this call with all of you. So we talked 624 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: for like. They asked the obvious burning questions. What was 625 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: her voice? It was the same, It was the Brittany voice. Yeah, 626 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: like that, that's insane. Wow. We debate a bit about 627 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: whether or not she's Brittany because we're all clinging onto 628 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: the fact that it's still Actually it's not very long. 629 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: It could be, though, right, I mean, anything is ply possible. 630 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: But I really don't think it's Brittany. I'm pretty convinced 631 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: she isn't. But in a funny role reversal, my friends 632 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: have now become the skeptics, and they are grilling me. 633 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: Do you have her phone number? Have been late? Did 634 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: she live in l A? Why do you all your 635 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: little details? You want to know her? And look, in 636 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: the end, I can't prove she isn't Brittany. I didn't 637 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: do some of the things Kerry would probably advise me 638 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: to do in order to verify her identity. I just 639 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: got enough information to confirm they for sure knew one another, 640 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: and the rest I take on faith. It's not what's 641 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: important to me. And also I want to honor her 642 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 1: friendship with Alex and the fact that they both sought 643 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: out anonymous connections online. Even though they shared deep parts 644 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: of their lives, he never shared his actual name, and 645 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to pry into the details she's chosen 646 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: to withhold either, So I take her at her word 647 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: that she's being honest. I set aside my skepticism and 648 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: adopt the kind of faith Alex did when he logged on, 649 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: because to me, what matters most, what is most real, 650 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: isn't found in her name or any other detail about 651 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: her life or identity. It's in hearing about the connection 652 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,959 Speaker 1: she and Alex shared and then sharing that with other 653 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: people who loved him too. This is like the best 654 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: ending to this. Yada's incredible. I can't believe it, really, 655 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: Christ congratulations on finding Alice. Thank you, Thanks everyone, all 656 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: of you for all your help. From being nice, it's Alice. Bit. 657 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: When Alex entered our lives, many of us were worried 658 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: about following life's rules, but he helped us see another possibility, 659 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: another way of being in the world. I think that's 660 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why many of us where his 661 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 1: friend is because even like if I knew, I was 662 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: like still on my path, even just like spending a 663 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: week with Alex was like a vacation from that path, 664 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: and it just always felt like so good. People might 665 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: look at Alex's wandering life and all of his online 666 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,840 Speaker 1: games and think he was irresponsible, But while exploring Alex's 667 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: digital life and talking to his friends, I've come to 668 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: realize that he just had a different understanding of what 669 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: it means to be responsible. Like, well, I was prioritizing 670 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: my career, Alex was prioritizing me. I think that Alex 671 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: didn't see value when a lot of things that society 672 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: asks us to put our time into. But he valued 673 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: his friendships, you know, And he didn't have that many 674 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: friendships because he only wanted to keep people around who 675 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: he really really cared about and loved and like those 676 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: people were incredibly special to him, and he made a 677 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: point of keeping in touch with them and making them 678 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 1: laugh and sending them things. This was something he did 679 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: for all of us. Yes, he could disappear, but he 680 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: would always seem to resurface at the exact moment you 681 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: needed him. When James had a health scare a few 682 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: years ago, Alex was right there with him in his 683 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: typical way, sending a steady stream of texts and memes 684 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: while I was in the hospital, and especially like the 685 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,960 Speaker 1: two nights I was like overnight in the ICU UM, 686 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: he and I were messaging constantly, and I would not 687 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,400 Speaker 1: have gotten through that week without him literally staying up 688 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,400 Speaker 1: all night with me, just like messaging me and checking 689 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: in and seeing how I was doing. And you just 690 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,359 Speaker 1: like sending funny bad picture I like, said him. I 691 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: sent him a selfie of myself like when I was 692 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: in the I see you um attached to all this ship. 693 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: And he replied back, can you just post that on 694 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: Instagram and say goodbye? Because I looked like I was tying. 695 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: Is cracked me the hell up. This was part of 696 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: why Alex was always posting so much funny stuff online. 697 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 1: It helped him deal with his own sadness and bring 698 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: light to others too. Sometimes you could really see through 699 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: his videos that he's having a bad day, but he's 700 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: just doing Like a performance for Britney Dancing is therapy. 701 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 1: I think for Alex it was like, I think that 702 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: was his salt let to deal with everything. But whether 703 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: you saw one of his memes or laughed with him 704 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: on a roller coaster, you always felt his love. Alex 705 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,760 Speaker 1: had that energy about him that you could just open 706 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: and everything you said it's kind of normal and there's 707 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: no being smart about it, is just pure compassion. He 708 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: really understood people. After he died, all of us in 709 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 1: Team Thor Daniels came across so many other people he'd 710 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: helped along the way, and there were many many more 711 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: we couldn't even track down. He would drop in and 712 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: out of people's lives. But even if he didn't keep 713 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: every single person he met in his orbit forever, for Alex, 714 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,160 Speaker 1: connecting with and supporting other people was everything, the driving 715 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: force of his life. When the most important thing in 716 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: your life is to find connection and meaning and meaning 717 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: through connection with very little regard for anything else in career, 718 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: it's imperative that you find people that understand you. Even 719 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: though he's gone, it's like he's still offering us that 720 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: understanding and still helping us learn the lessons he taught 721 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,320 Speaker 1: us while he was here. Beth recalls one moment, in particular, 722 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,640 Speaker 1: the summer after Alex died, she'd been seeing someone who 723 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: turned out to be kind of a dick. This guy 724 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: that I was sort of dating loosely basically turned on 725 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,800 Speaker 1: NPR and I was still talking to him because he 726 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: asked me to stay for coffee the next morning. So 727 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: I'm talking to him, He's like, could you He kind 728 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: of like cuts me off, like shut up, and he's like, 729 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: why don't you check out the porch? Like he basically 730 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: banished me to the porch, this man. So I go 731 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: on the porch. I'm sitting there and drinking this coffee, 732 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 1: and I'm looking out into the hills and I just 733 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: started crying, not sobbing, just silently crying, thinking of at 734 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: Alex and him saying, like, you should be with a 735 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: guy who treats you well. I think sometimes when I'm 736 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,799 Speaker 1: in nature or a you're looking at that, like, I 737 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,440 Speaker 1: definitely think of him, and h I should have totally 738 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: never talked about guy again, But don't worry. I'm sure 739 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: I stayed a couple of extra weeks. Um. Now I 740 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: can add one more person to the list of people 741 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 1: who Alex connected with, people who helped him feel understood 742 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: and who he helped in so many other rule shattering 743 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 1: ways in return someone else who is still carrying Alex 744 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: with them too. He really understood, but I was going 745 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: through like a lot of people, you know, they try 746 00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: to understand but they don't. But when comes to like 747 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,760 Speaker 1: a person who really like understands, you know, there's nothing 748 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:12,439 Speaker 1: like that. Nothing can be paid. One night, not long 749 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: after finding Alice, I ask Lexi if she has any 750 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,080 Speaker 1: other audio or video messages from Alex I might not 751 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: know about. She forwards three voicemails. The first I play 752 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 1: is when he left on Lexi's birthday. Well, well, well, 753 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: looks like someone's going to have to change their voicemail 754 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,839 Speaker 1: from their twenty nine year old voice to their third 755 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: or third or third or first or first or third 756 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,719 Speaker 1: or third orth or thirst or thirst thirst thirty year 757 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: old voice. Because that's you today, because it's March seventeen. 758 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: It is currently well phone one am, and this is 759 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 1: your friend Alex. I just wanted to wish you happy birthday. 760 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,040 Speaker 1: It's a happy thirthday for me to you, Happy birthday, 761 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,479 Speaker 1: Happy birthday. You know he's thirties and forty and then 762 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 1: fifty soon will be eighty will happen. Then I love you. 763 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 1: As the message continues, Alex does something a little unusual 764 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: for him. He talks with Hope about the future. I 765 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: Hope you're just stuff in your face with some entire food, 766 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: but you know, in like a mature way, because you're 767 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 1: thirty now. So I think we're gonna have to lower 768 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,319 Speaker 1: our voices a bit and just kind of make it work. 769 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: You know. We're just gonna go with the flow. Um, 770 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,799 Speaker 1: We're going to get it together, you know. I can 771 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: feel it that these are gonna be our years. These 772 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: are going to be our years where we discover ourselves, 773 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,439 Speaker 1: you know, and then when we turn forty, we'll be like, wow, 774 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,440 Speaker 1: what was that all about in our thirties, But it'll 775 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 1: be like really really healthy, just to get to know ourselves, 776 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,840 Speaker 1: to know each other, and to know how each of 777 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: us as individuals fits into this world. Because things are 778 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: just crazy, you know. And I think that three is 779 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,919 Speaker 1: a charmed you know, and two is not the same. 780 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,919 Speaker 1: I don't see the harm. So are you game? Let's 781 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: make a team, make them say my name. He may 782 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: have started quoting Brittany lyrics there at the end of it, 783 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,319 Speaker 1: but I'm focused on something else. It's painful to hear 784 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: Alex talk about something he'll never do, grow old. There's 785 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: also something really beautiful about it, though. It reminds me that, 786 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,400 Speaker 1: at least in moments, Alex could imagine a future in 787 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: which he was happy. As I listened to a Lexi's voicemails, 788 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,399 Speaker 1: a light bulb goes off. I remember that for three 789 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: years I used a free digital voicemail service that would 790 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,360 Speaker 1: email me audiophiles and transcripts of my messages. I hadn't 791 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 1: used the account in half a decade, but when I 792 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: log into the voicemail service, I find over a dozen 793 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,120 Speaker 1: messages from Alex. A lot of them are him singing 794 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: Britney songs bloo he thought you knew both if you something, 795 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 1: now you know well tonight A bugo mash makes the 796 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 1: boogo to match about if they aren't him singing Brittany. 797 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: Most of them include at least a nod to her. 798 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: Hey is Alex, Um, I'm just calling me because I 799 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: am Brittany Jean, I am your mother, I am your friends, 800 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 1: I am funny, I am your life. Um m hmm, 801 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 1: well you know, and I'm also just calling because I 802 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: love you. When I missed you. Most of them are funny, 803 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: but then acred Alex. Um I just wanted to say, hey, 804 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: it's been a while. I feel like I did every 805 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: about to suit if they should be catch what I'm doing. 806 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: Another funny Brittany reference, of course, but the humor is 807 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:57,240 Speaker 1: overshadowed by a familiar feeling guilt. I hear him saying 808 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: it's been a while and that that was common, and 809 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 1: I begin to tell myself, See, you were a bad friend, 810 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,799 Speaker 1: not there for him, the same thoughts I had the 811 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 1: first moment I saw his goodbye email in my inbox. 812 00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:16,800 Speaker 1: But then the message continues. There I love you and 813 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,080 Speaker 1: say and thinks being a good friend and loves to 814 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: really filed you. I love you right. In the year 815 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: after Alex died, I kept telling myself this story that 816 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,920 Speaker 1: I had failed him, that I had been a neglectful friend, 817 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: that he went online in search of understanding because I 818 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,920 Speaker 1: hadn't been the friend he needed. But here he was, 819 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:47,400 Speaker 1: in his own voice, saying otherwise, another gift. The truth 820 00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 1: is I went looking for Alice because I wanted her 821 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,800 Speaker 1: to have significance, whether she was Brittany or not, though 822 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: of course part of me did really want Alice to 823 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,520 Speaker 1: be Brittany, because it'd be this affirmation that Alex was special, 824 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: and in turn that I was special too, That he 825 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,080 Speaker 1: sent these files to me as a way of saying 826 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,319 Speaker 1: he trusted me with this amazing secret. I used to 827 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,240 Speaker 1: scoff at some of the commenters on Britney's Instagram posts, 828 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 1: but now I understand them. We're all searching for meaning 829 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:23,239 Speaker 1: in the mundane video. When Alex died, I felt like 830 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: everything was out of my control. Things I couldn't go 831 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 1: back and change about the past, and so much I 832 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: didn't understand about the present. But if I could keep moving, picking, searching, 833 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,439 Speaker 1: maybe I could outrun my uncertainties, regrets and questions, or 834 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,320 Speaker 1: even uncover some critical meaning something I had missed, some 835 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: key to unlock the entire puzzle. As long as I 836 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,080 Speaker 1: was investigating, it felt like maybe there was still more 837 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,279 Speaker 1: to learn, to discover, more to the story, some new 838 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: detail that would make me feel better. But sometimes the 839 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,640 Speaker 1: story is just done, even if it doesn't end how 840 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: you thought or hoped it might, even if you still 841 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: feel unresolved. The coaster reaches its summit, drops, you do 842 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,680 Speaker 1: the loops, and then it's time to get off. The 843 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,640 Speaker 1: rides over. My search through Alex's online wonderland is done, 844 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,959 Speaker 1: and now I have to keep moving forward with all 845 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 1: my uncertainties and sadness. But I can see now that 846 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,240 Speaker 1: new stories are already flowering. They're in everything and everyone 847 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,879 Speaker 1: Alex left behind, in Alice, in show She, in Bath 848 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 1: and James and Dua and Lexi. They're in all the 849 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: people far beyond this little circle, the countless people whose 850 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 1: lives Alex touched. Some I'm fortunate enough to know, and 851 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,759 Speaker 1: others I've yet to meet. They're in Brittany and the 852 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 1: outpouring of love for her that's happened in the time 853 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 1: since Alex died, in the rest of the world, catching 854 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,200 Speaker 1: up with the humanity that ale son her years ago. 855 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,800 Speaker 1: And they are flowering in Knee In all the places 856 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,839 Speaker 1: this search took me, and places still undiscovered, places where 857 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,760 Speaker 1: I've locked away other pieces of my love for Alex, 858 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:18,320 Speaker 1: they are there, little stories, still unread, constellating a meaning 859 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,280 Speaker 1: I do not yet understand, waiting patiently for the moment 860 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:28,719 Speaker 1: I need them. Alex is there, too, as real to 861 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: me now as ever in my archives. He's still laughing 862 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,160 Speaker 1: at how serious I am, how eagerly I look for 863 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: meaning everywhere, how desperately I cling to the things that 864 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: I think will make me important and worthy and loving 865 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:50,160 Speaker 1: me anyway. Our texts, tweets, Instagram, messages, emails, those SoundCloud 866 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: files he sent me without context, they now serve as 867 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 1: a kind of map. I can go back to, one 868 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,040 Speaker 1: that charts out the lessons he taught me, one that 869 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,880 Speaker 1: will help me make my way through a world without him. 870 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,560 Speaker 1: In these little digital fragments Alex left behind, he is 871 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,919 Speaker 1: still here, still telling me to stop trying so hard 872 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: to impress everyone, to just relax and be myself. He 873 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,960 Speaker 1: is still here, offering me understanding and showing me how 874 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: to be real by example. I didn't know it when 875 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,319 Speaker 1: I began, but looking for Alice was my way of 876 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: charting a map back to Alex. But the roadways were 877 00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:35,600 Speaker 1: there all along. There's one voicemail I've played little bits 878 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,319 Speaker 1: of a couple of times throughout this show. It's one 879 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: I keep going back to again and again, like I 880 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:49,400 Speaker 1: first did with those SoundCloud files, here's the full thing going. 881 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,759 Speaker 1: I know you kind of clue what to do with 882 00:55:55,239 --> 00:56:01,280 Speaker 1: the chick. What you are? What you are? They? You 883 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Sorry, I've send like you know whatever. 884 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 1: But first of all, I live a new microphone now 885 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: and no one ever returns phone calls or ever hangs out, 886 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,600 Speaker 1: so I must like a little bitch now. Also, I 887 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: was really depressed and really physically ill, so you know, 888 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: there was no point in doing anything but right now 889 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:26,320 Speaker 1: in this timer, I choo. But you're another one. So 890 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,640 Speaker 1: what the book can I still do with my life? 891 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I hope you're doing okay. Thinking 892 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:50,520 Speaker 1: of you, loving you Sometimes I don't know what the 893 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,600 Speaker 1: funk I'm supposed to do with my life now that 894 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,080 Speaker 1: you're not around, Alex, I think of you all the time. 895 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,600 Speaker 1: It's bitter sweet, but lately it's more sweet than bitter, 896 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 1: because you left so many gifts, not just the Alice 897 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,440 Speaker 1: files that sent me chasing after one of your strange mysteries, 898 00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,160 Speaker 1: but all the clues and questions you left, things that 899 00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,200 Speaker 1: pushed me to try and be more myself like you 900 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:24,760 Speaker 1: always were. I'm not done following your lead. Your example 901 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,480 Speaker 1: has been one of the greatest gifts of my life, 902 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,360 Speaker 1: and even though I have to do so without you now, 903 00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to try to find the faith to keep 904 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:46,040 Speaker 1: building on it. Thinking of you, loving you Superstar alone. 905 00:57:46,080 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: The Woman You Unread is created, written, hosted, and executive 906 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: produced by me Chris Stedman. Wow. Saying all that narrow 907 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 1: has me feeling very Mariah Carey. My co executive producer 908 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 1: is the visionary Bethan Macaluso. Our story editor is the 909 00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 1: iconic Aaron Edwards. Sound designed by the tireless Dylan Fagan. 910 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,400 Speaker 1: Music by the wildly creative erin Wong Kaufman with additional 911 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,240 Speaker 1: music by legends Ben Sara Tan and Sadie Duqui of 912 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: SAD thirteen. Logo by the talented Jeff niaz Goda, with 913 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,720 Speaker 1: additional artwork by Mike Queen, Lexi Newman, and the wonderful 914 00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,360 Speaker 1: Lucy Quintinia. Special thanks, of course to Alice, and to 915 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:54,320 Speaker 1: Alex's family and friends, especially his mother and father, show 916 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:58,360 Speaker 1: she Lexei, Beth Doua James, and all of the incredible 917 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,760 Speaker 1: people who loved Alex. I'm so grateful to each and 918 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: every one of you. Thanks also to everyone at my Heart, 919 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,600 Speaker 1: Josh ln Gren, at c A. A. Shelby Lano, Christina Everett, 920 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,080 Speaker 1: Emily Marinoff and the Unread team for bringing Brittany's Instagram 921 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,120 Speaker 1: comments to life I v Stacklow, Dave Holmes and Carry 922 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,200 Speaker 1: Poppy for offering critical perspective, Alexis O'Brien at the American 923 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:25,520 Speaker 1: Foundation for Suicide Prevention for doing a sensitivity listen, Marissa 924 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,000 Speaker 1: Brown for fact checking, and many many others for support 925 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,360 Speaker 1: and assistance along the way. And of course, above all, 926 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,520 Speaker 1: else to Alex for completely changing my life. I love 927 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 1: and miss you dearly. Have you sifted through the digital 928 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,440 Speaker 1: fragments I loved one left behind after their death and 929 00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,440 Speaker 1: tried to make sense of it all? Or are you 930 00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:49,400 Speaker 1: doing so now? Email us at Unread Pod at gmail 931 00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,200 Speaker 1: dot com or give us a call at four eight 932 00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,200 Speaker 1: four three to one three three eight two. We'd love 933 00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: to hear your story. For photos, screenshots, me times, and 934 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: more things mentioned in this show, follow us on Instagram 935 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:22,840 Speaker 1: or Twitter at Unread Pod. Mmmmmmmmmmmm