WEBVTT - 42.5 Longest Shortest Time Takeover: It's A Real Mother 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.200 Surprise, we're back a week early, and this time we're 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.840 doing something a little different. I'm talking about a special 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.640 takeover episode from the Longest Shortest Time. That's another show 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.720 in the Stitcher family, all about parenting. I was a 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.040 guest on the show last year. I talked with Hillary Frank, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.400 who is the host, all about being a single mom 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.840 after my husband Jay died almost twenty years ago. Now 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:27.520 Hillary and her team are out with a new series 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.360 all about workplace discrimination against working moms, and that's the 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.920 subject I cared deeply about since much of my career 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:38.160 was spent as a working mom. And today we're bringing 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.600 you the first episode in the series. You'll hear from 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.080 former Massachusetts Governor Jane Swift. Did you know she's the 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.440 first American governor to give birth while in office, which, 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.360 frankly kind of surprised me. But anyway, she talks about 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.760 her experience with workplace discrimination, and you'll also be hearing 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.720 from listeners talking about what happened to them. So let's 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:10.039 get to it. When Jane Swift was twenty five, she 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.520 did something most women her age don't do. She ran 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:18.200 for state Senate. This was back in western Massachusetts. One 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.160 day before the election, she went to a small town 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.160 in her district to talk to a newspaper reporter. It 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:26.600 was a little bit of an older guy, and we 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.319 sat down and we started going through the typical biographical data. Um, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:33.640 you know, how old was I? Where was I from? 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.959 Progressed too? Was I married? Jane was used to that question. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.720 Her answer was no. This is when it started to 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.679 get a little odd. Uh. This reporter said to me, 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.720 did I have a boyfriend? Um? At this point I 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.920 felt a little bit like my mother may have called 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:52.440 him because this was a big concern of hers as well. UM. 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.880 I was actually pretty proud of myself because for the 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:59.280 first time in many years I was able to answer yes. Um. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.760 But his next question was really my first clue to 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:10.399 just how strange my future would become as a young 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.200 woman candidate seeking office, because when I told him yes, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:17.840 rather than going on to talk about taxes and my 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:22.040 plans for local aid and improving public education, he asked 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.360 me how serious my relationship was. Jane was like, why 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.040 does he care that? I said, well, I'm not sure, 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:30.720 but if you want to call and ask him and 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.119 let me know, that would be great. Uh. It did 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.959 not dissuade him. Uh. He said to me, Well, at 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.160 some point, I assume you're going to get married, and 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.919 if you get married and start a family, what will 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.280 that mean for your constituents in your career in the 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:54.960 state Senate. I was twenty five years old, and I 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.320 was probably for one of the first times in my life, 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:05.760 rendered speechless. I had not actually thought about that question 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.840 all that much, and I couldn't believe he was asking me. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.320 But as the Google search that you may have done 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.400 on me will prove, that was a question that would 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.760 become pretty consistently asked of me and become a reality, 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.600 uh in my political life. But that was the first clue, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.040 the first clue that Jane would face discrimination as a 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:35.000 working mom. Except back then she wasn't even a mom yet. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.600 Let me say that again. Jane was getting questioned about 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.840 her ability to do her job well as a mother 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:49.120 before she even knew she'd be a mother. This is 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.640 the longest shortest time. I'm Hilary Frank and this episode 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.880 is the first in a super exciting series or launching 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.600 right here right now about discrimination against working mom. It's 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.120 a real mother. Yeah, that's commentary on my part, but 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.200 it's also what we're calling the series It's a Real Mother. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.440 We're going to spend four whole episodes looking at this problem, 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.040 figuring out why it exists and what we can do 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:26.240 to solve it. In this episode, we're going to take 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.480 a look at what discrimination against working moms actually is, 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.960 how people get away with it, and what happens when 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.960 it's not behind closed doors but in plain view. That's 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.960 what Jane Swift's story is all about. Her story is 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.920 groundbreaking and it's got some serious surprises. But to really 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.000 get this series started, first we need to set the stage, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.640 and so my producer, Abigail Keel is here to help 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.880 me break down what's really going on in the world 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:58.880 of working moms. Hey Abigail, Hey Hillary, So, Abigail, isn't 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.400 discrimination at Lee Goal, Like, why are we even talking 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.680 about this? Why are we even doing this series? Right? 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.640 Are there laws to protect you? The good news is 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.520 there are laws. One of those lawses Title nine, which 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.200 you've probably heard of, and that law broadly protects against 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:19.120 all kinds of discrimination based on sex, and specifically, there's 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.720 an amendment within Title nine called the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.160 which makes it illegal to not hire somebody based only 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.760 on the fact that they're pregnant. And if you do 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.960 hire somebody and they become pregnant, you have to provide 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.800 them with accommodations if they can no longer perform the 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.599 duties of their job. Um, so light duty, some stuff 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:43.000 like that. There's also a law that applies to breastfeeding 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.960 in the workplace, So this is another area where discrimination 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.560 can happen. And actually, thanks to the Affordable Care Act, 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:55.000 now employers must provide a space and break for new 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.359 moms to express breast milk if they choose to do 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.159 that when they come back to work. So it's not 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.520 just a room. Not just a room they have to provide. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.279 They also have to give the time right exactly, and 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.039 it has to be a space that locks. It's not 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:12.240 supposed to be in the bathroom. Um. But one kind 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.760 of caveat to this law is that it only applies 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.120 to companies that have more than fifty employees, So a 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.400 small company or if you work for a company in 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.240 like some sort of capacity where you're a private contractor 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.960 or something like that, this law wouldn't protect you. Okay, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.960 what else, So the other area that kind of comes 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:35.159 into play here is UH paid leave an unpaid leave, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.400 And the law that we have nationally that applies here 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.680 is f m l A, the Family and Medical Leave Act, 0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:46.719 which we've all heard about, UM, and this law entitles 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.800 employees to unpaid leave, so that could be used for 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.960 like maternity leave, if you've been an employee for at 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:57.520 least twelve months and worked at least fifty hours in 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.000 that year, which is about five hours per week. And 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.200 that's only for companies with fifty or more employees. So 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.080 if you come in and you were hired when you 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:13.040 were pregnant, and you come back to work, then you're 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:19.880 not entitled to any paid leave or any unpaid leave legally. Federally, 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.160 a lot of companies have their own maternity leave policies, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.600 their own sickly policies, family leave UM. Some states have 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:31.160 different policies, but according to our government, UM, this would 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.960 not apply to you. Got it. And you know the 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.560 other thing is that there's a lot of research about 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:41.240 discrimination against moms in the workplace that shows that the 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.200 ways mothers are discriminated against are really hard to pin down, 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.880 So they can be things like they're just not promoted 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.600 as often, they're not paid to the same level that 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.120 men are paid to. But you know, there are ways 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.720 that companies can defend those decisions and say, well, we 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.280 just thought, you know, this other person was a better employee. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.240 And so this kind of discrimination really quickly becomes very 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.480 insidious and very hard to really understand when it's happening 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.000 inside of a workplace culture that just doesn't value mothers 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.720 as highly as it might value other employees. And we're 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.080 gonna get into a lot of that research actually in 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.920 our next episode, but just know it's there, right, And 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.760 we've also had a lot of listeners right into us 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.680 for years, right, they've been telling us stories of workplace discrimination, 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.600 and we also put out a call recently asking for 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.480 more stories. So what have we heard? So thank you 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.160 to everybody who reached out, and also we are sorry 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.319 that this has happened to you. But um, we heard 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.599 from people across the whole country, so you know, Florida, Wisconsin, 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.959 West coast, East coast, small towns, big towns. We even 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.960 had some international listeners chime in. And you know, these 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.280 are people who work in a whole myriad of jobs, 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.560 so teachers, people who work in offices. We heard from 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.760 someone in a factory, we heard from some academics. These 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.680 were full time jobs, part time jobs atthing in between. 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.319 So you brought a couple of cases to tell me 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.440 about today, right, that's right? So who are we going 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.560 to hear about? So I want to start by walking 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.040 through a couple of stories that I think illustrate really 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.400 well some key aspects of discrimination and how it can 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.520 feel when it happens to you. First, as a woman 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.400 named Jessica. She lives here in New York, and before 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.559 she had her baby, she and her wife decided that 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.560 they both go back to work. Jessica worked at a bank. 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.320 She didn't have her college degree, but she did really 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.320 like her job and her team. Two days after coming 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.679 back from maternity leave, Jessica was laid off. Her boss, 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.080 who was female and child list told her that they 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:43.000 eliminated her position. But Jessica thinks being a mom had 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.360 something to do with it. I think this because she 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:50.959 said on several occasions, Oh, won't it be better now 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.280 for you though? Because now you can spend so much 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.360 more time with your baby, and being a mom is 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.079 so hard and it takes up at least a third 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.079 of your life. You don't want to miss all of 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.439 those great things that your kid is going to do 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.560 and blah blah, blah blah. So Jessica's company offered her 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.719 a severance package, which she decided to take, and she 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:13.599 used the money to pay for a babysitter for the 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.960 first few months of her daughter's life. And with that time, 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.160 Jessica finished her degree and she started applying for new jobs. 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:25.080 But almost a year later, she still hasn't found anything, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.160 and now that all that severance money is used up, 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.599 Jessica is taking care of her daughter at home. I 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.240 can't tell you how hard it's been to have a 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:42.640 baby and then also lose your livelihood and your sense 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:48.439 of professional identity. Um. And I felt really strange about 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.079 taking the severance. I really struggled with that decision of 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.679 whether to do that or whether to fight it legally 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.640 or I felt like it was selling out and I 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.480 still kind of do. And of course we should just 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:06.280 say that obviously every kind of mom is great, working 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.679 at home, working out an office, stay at home mom. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.240 We're not judging, but it seems like for Jessica what 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.440 she wanted was to be a working mom. That's right. Yeah, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.920 And you know, Jessica actually had enough information in this 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.720 situation that she could have probably brought a case against 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.440 her employer, but she said that the reason she decided 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:26.400 not to were Actually, there's a couple of reasons. One 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.000 was that she kind of needed this money from her severance. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.000 She had just lost her job, um. But the other 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.960 was that she felt really overwhelmed. She had just had 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.640 a baby, she had just lost her job, she was 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:39.839 dealing with a lot of transitions, and the thought of 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.679 launching into a lawsuit that could last for who knows 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.079 how long, cost who knows how much, all of that 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.440 was just too much for her to think, Yeah, exactly, 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.040 and really, the only way to prove that something discriminatory 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.240 happened to you is to take it to court, which 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.040 is a big castle. Yes, this is a part of 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.000 the equation when we wonder why more people don't step 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.160 forward with these kinds of accusations. It's not that the 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.559 discrimination isn't happening, it's just that it's not being recorded, 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.200 right right, Okay, So um, let's hear about another mom. Alright. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.360 So this next mom is a mom in Oregon. Her 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.120 name is Elizabeth, and she is a lawyer. She landed 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.040 a job at a really big law firm that she'd 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.319 been trying to get into for a long time, and 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.640 shortly after she found out that she was pregnant. When 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.280 she told one of the partners at this law firm 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.760 about it, he said, oh, that's going to be hard 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.280 on your career, which was upsetting to hear, as he 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:42.599 was an owner and therefore essentially responsible for whether or 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.360 not it would be hard on my career. And I 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.319 told the managing partner what he had said, and he 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.679 tried to reashare me that that's not exactly what he 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.400 had meant, and that you know, he would talk to 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.199 him and take care of it, and that was inappropriate, 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.720 but then proceeded to ask me if I was intending 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.559 to turn to work at all, and I just, um, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.839 I thought, I'm in trouble. But Elizabeth did come back 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.959 to work, and she worked really hard. She put in FaceTime. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.760 She ended up being the first chair in a big trial, 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:15.920 which meant she was just in charge of that case. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:19.319 And at that trial she decided to ask the judge 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.679 for pumping brakes, which she was granted once the trial 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.000 actually started. I got that break the very first day. 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.240 Um for the first break, and then never again for 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:33.920 the full amount of time that I had asked for. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.439 The judge always gave me twenty minutes or less, um, 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:43.199 and at one point resumed the jury trial without me. Um. 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.120 And I'm sure she did it with the okay of 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:49.120 my co counsel. Um. But you know, to walk into 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:55.079 a room after rushing through the pumping process in a 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.720 different room in the courthouse and racing back to my courtroom, 0:13:58.200 --> 0:13:59.760 and to walk in and see a room full of 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.160 pep who have proceeded without me, it made me feel 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:07.000 as though perhaps there really isn't room for working mothers 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.720 in the law. So Elizabeth actually left litigation after that. Um. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.079 She's still a lawyer, but she works in a different 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.520 field where she has a more family friendly workplace. You know. 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.160 It's it's interesting, like at a law firm, you would 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:25.000 think that lawyers would know better than to discriminate. Yeah, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.920 it's unfortunately ironic. Um. The thing that I take away 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.440 from Elizabeth's story is that you know, she she left 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.920 like she got out of that situation, which is awesome. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:37.560 And a lot of the moms that I heard from 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.600 ended up leaving the situations where they were discriminated against, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.880 mostly on their own accord. But the sad part about 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.600 that is that those jobs in those workplaces still exist 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.080 and they're just open for the next person to come 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:56.280 in and be discriminated against. Those employers aren't being punished, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.120 they're not being told that what they did was wrong, 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.960 and that is it. I think we need to kind 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.480 of figure out how to deal with And we're gonna 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.600 be talking about like a lot of this stuff in 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.400 the rest of the series. Right right now, you brought 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.440 a collection of voices for us to just hear kind 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.880 of the variety of the types of discrimination that that 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.480 mother's face. That's right. So, without further ado, I was 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.360 just dropping a note to talk about being a working 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:28.600 mom and oh goodness, is it a daily challenge. I 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.920 found out I was pregnant with my second child. I 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:37.040 show my pregnancies very early on. It was winter. I 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.480 walked into the head of school's office with my coat on. 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.680 I could see the contract laying on the table. It 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.120 was very clear that I was to be given an offer. 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.040 I took my coat off to have a seat at 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.400 the table, and I could see both the head of 0:15:52.480 --> 0:16:01.480 school and his assistant audibly gasp because they noticed my stomach. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.560 You know, sometime I wanted you to work an extra 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.720 hour too, and you're stuck between trying to figure out 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.360 should you stay or should you go? Or am I 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.440 going to be on the verge of losing a job 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.440 just because I have a child. I found out that 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.080 there was another girl interviewing for the same position that 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.800 I was. She was a few months pregnant at the time, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.040 and a couple of people told me that I was 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.440 definitely going to get the position over her, even though 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.000 she was more qualified on paper than I was, because 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.200 she was pregnant, which was kind of funny because no 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.040 one knew that I was pregnant. Um. You know, I 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.360 got the job with a lot of guilt. Um Before 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:45.440 I got pregnant, I was getting the grants, the publications. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.600 Everyone I met, from my advisers to people at conferences 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.080 told me they were expecting a lot from me, wanted 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:59.720 to collaborate, We're interested in future work. Once I got pregnant, though, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.000 and once the new spread, these alphas began to dry up, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.560 I'm currently in a situation at a small startup. They 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.160 talk a big game, you know, newly decorated mother's room, 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.800 flexible hours, maternity leave, But when it comes to salary review. 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.840 I feel as though my flexibility is being held against me. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.879 I have been promised a job and told after I 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.680 had um our little girl that they didn't want me 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.639 to have to divide my attention between being a new 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.200 mom and having a different position. And it wasn't something 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.720 that was up for discussion. It was just told where 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.879 in this nature center am I going to pump? My office, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.960 which was about fifteen space shared with four other people. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.040 There was the staff bathroom in the musty basement, a 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:59.240 freezer room with freezers full of dead animals. Um. It 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.280 took every thing in me not to scream when the 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.639 first suggestion was the bathroom. The area that I was 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.080 provided to pump was actually the bathroom, and my company 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.160 had purchased a ping pong table and placed it right 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:18.040 outside said bathroom. So when I returned from my first 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.680 maternity leave, um, my manager was very hard on me. 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.119 She had actually taken over my role when I was 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.480 gone and then pretty much refused to give it back 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.520 to me and just made me feel like the fact 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.760 that I was a mother and working was something that 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.119 was taking away from my ability to work. And what 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.280 I was told, uh in a closed door meeting with 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.600 HR was maybe I should move on. I was able 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.560 to leave my job because I have a partner who 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.800 supports me. Um. And yet at the same time, my 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.880 partner has never had to answer for whether he's still 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.880 as good an employee as a parent, and he's never 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.400 had anybody question that I've had to reevaluate my entire 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:10.800 self worth. Um. You know, there's a lot to be done. Yeah, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.480 there's a lot to be done right, But there's also 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.960 a lot you can do right, Abigail, And that's what 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.720 we've discovered in doing this series. And over the course 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.560 of the next few episodes, we're going to talk to 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.840 a work expert. We're going to visit a workplace where 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.520 they're getting things right. We're going to get an international perspective, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.040 and we are going to talk to a mom in 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.439 a low wage job. So we've got a lot we're 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.880 going to cover. But first today we're going to pick 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.400 up with Jane swift story. She's a woman we heard 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.440 from at the top of the show, UM, and I 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:44.359 think her story is really informative because it's not about 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:49.240 employers discriminating against an employee. It's about how kind of 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:54.640 we as a society discriminate against working moms. We will 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.960 be back with that story in just a minute. Stay 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:13.440 with us. We are back with the story that we 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.040 began at the top of the show today about a 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.480 politician named Jane Swift, which is, you've got to admit, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.480 just the perfect politician name, and what would you like 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.400 me to call you in this show? I would prefer 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.760 for you to call me Jane, although I do understand 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.040 that governor is a title that I'm very proud of 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.000 and that I earned. But Jane is preferable. Okay, great, 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.320 I also answered a mom, but that's not preferable. That 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.840 would be inappropriate for me to call you. Yes, in 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.280 a little weird that's right, Governor. Jane won that state 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:52.520 senence heat back, and a decade later she had worked 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.720 her way up to running the state of Massachusetts. She 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.520 was the first woman to hold that office and yes, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:03.200 the first mom to do it. And you know, I 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.880 gotta say I was totally surprised by how open Jane 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.080 was when I interviewed her. I mean, she's a politician, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.360 so I expected her to give me like politician answers, 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.040 but she didn't, and I think that's because she's still 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.920 upset about how she was treated. She wants to talk 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.520 about it so that maybe workplace discrimination against moms can change. 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.359 Jane's path to political stardom began in college when she 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.359 was an intern working for the state senator in her district, 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.320 Peter Webber. Shortly after she graduated, he hired her as 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.359 his legislative aid. She helped him develop his positions on 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.399 important bills. She met with constituents and local officials. She 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.639 was basically the glue between Senator Webber and the people 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:55.399 he was representing. Jane loved it, and Senator Webber took notice. 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.879 He sought me out and told me that he had 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.960 decided not to run for family reasons, and he thought 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.680 that I would be a great successor so. I know. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.320 Politicians say family reasons as a cover a lot of 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:12.400 the time, but apparently Senator Webber's family reasons were real. 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.160 He wanted to spend more time with his young children, 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.119 and him choosing Jane I was also exceptional. Research shows 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.239 that women rarely get this kind of shoulder tap from 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.200 men in politics. They don't get invited to the party. 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:31.760 Jane enthusiastically said yes, and little did we know would 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:37.840 start a path for some historic accomplishments. But I have 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.679 to say that had I known at the time uh 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.920 the gender barriers and the degree to which people would 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.679 find it odd that a young woman would have an 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.720 ambition to serve in an elected political office, or how 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.440 difficult it was perceived to be, I may not have 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.359 done it. And so the real gift that Senator Weber 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.560 gave me, beyond his terrific support and some great advice, 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.840 was he made it seem like a normal thing to 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:11.080 do for a twenty five year old woman to run 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:14.159 for the first political office, to be the state senator 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.240 from my hometown. Jane won that election as a Republican, 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.800 she got right to work on her main issues, family 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:26.760 and education. She focused on improving Massachusetts public education system, 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:31.360 helping small businesses, and promoting environmental protection for the part 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.960 of the state that she represented. And along the way, 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:38.280 Jane met a guy, a different guy from the boyfriend 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.280 the reporter had grilled her about. This new guy was 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:44.480 a dairy farmer named Chuck, And for all you nosey 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.360 reporters wondering how serious this relationship was, they did get 0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.119 married in the middle of Jane's second term in the 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:54.440 state Senate. You know. When I was little, I was 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:59.159 the you know, have ten kids and um, have a 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:05.080 big family. I outgrew that, luckily, um pretty quickly. But UM, 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:09.840 I always assumed that I was going to be a mother, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:14.240