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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast. He was

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Speaker 1: last with me about nine years ago. Richard Lawrence has

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Speaker 1: accumulated a very unique breadth of knowledge and experience and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of mind, body and spirit, including the area

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Speaker 1: of UFOs. Richard was Lord Kimberly's speechwriter doing the House

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Speaker 1: of Lord's UFO debate back in nineteen seventy nine. Was

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Speaker 1: the first to bring declassified CIA and Pentagon UFO files

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Speaker 1: to Britain back in nineteen eighty. He launched a very

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Speaker 1: successful campaign in the US for release of UFO data

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Speaker 1: from the FAA back in eighty seven, and the first

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Speaker 1: to reveal Soviet Union UFO papers in Britain in nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: His latest book is called The UFOs and the Extraterrestrial Message. Richard,

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Speaker 1: welcome back. It's been too long. Oh, thank you, George. Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you for inviting me again. It's good to have you.

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Speaker 1: What's new with you. Well, the most recent thing that

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Speaker 1: I've actually been working on was biography of doctor George King.

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Speaker 1: I think we spoke about him last time, and we

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Speaker 1: just completed that and published it last year. That's the

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Speaker 1: King who came to Earth, and it sort of describes,

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Speaker 1: I think, whatever one's view of him and the Etherist

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Speaker 1: Society which he founded, which I'm secretary, I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's a must for people who are interested in

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Speaker 1: UFOs to form their own conclusions know about him, because

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Speaker 1: he's such a key figure in the movement. How did

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Speaker 1: you get interested in studying and investigating your force, Richard?

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Speaker 1: You know, my sort of way, in funny enough, was

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Speaker 1: more of a spiritual thing. And that's why I'm so

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Speaker 1: pleased that the sort of, if you like, the nuts

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Speaker 1: and bolts school of uthology and the spiritual school of

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Speaker 1: euthology have come together, I feel, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: think both recognize the need for the other. But from

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Speaker 1: my point of view, I was at university, I was

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Speaker 1: looking into spvarious spiritual teachings. I came across the Etherist Society,

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Speaker 1: and then just shortly after that I had and I

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Speaker 1: think I believe I could be standing to be corrected

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Speaker 1: on this, but I think the Etheric Side is the

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Speaker 1: oldest international uf organization in the world. Now, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean there are some local ones that could be older.

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Speaker 1: I know one I think in Cleveland, but that's by

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Speaker 1: the bye. I had an amazing sighting at university in

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Speaker 1: the north of England at a place called Hull, which

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Speaker 1: I couldn't argue with at all. It was actually probably

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Speaker 1: not a million miles from what they now called the

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Speaker 1: tic tac type of object, but in those days they

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Speaker 1: called it the cigar shaped. You probably remember that George

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Speaker 1: used to be the flying saucer and the cigar shape.

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Speaker 1: And so it was oblong and it was moving slowly

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Speaker 1: in the sky. But it came at a moment of

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Speaker 1: great significance to me when I was looking into this

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Speaker 1: and making decisions about which path to go down, you

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Speaker 1: might say, and there sort the tie up between cosmic existence,

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Speaker 1: alien existence and spiritual reality was what really brought me

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Speaker 1: into the whole field. Why did these you have all

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Speaker 1: seen to have different shapes, Sir Richard, the oval shapes,

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Speaker 1: triangular shape, cigars shaped and tic tac shape. Now, all

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Speaker 1: these different shapes, I'll come, yeah, Well, I think that's

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Speaker 1: where we need to be really open minded and in

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Speaker 1: fact open minded about also the shapes of the intelligences

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Speaker 1: aboard them. I'm sure they are some of them anyway,

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Speaker 1: who come from outside this solar system, I believed could

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Speaker 1: be very, very different from us. But it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: they're not intelligent life. In terms of the shapes of

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Speaker 1: the craft, I mean, I don't really know why they

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Speaker 1: would have a triangular one as opposed to around one.

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Speaker 1: But I myself had a sighting just a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, actually in Devon of a triangular object which

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry that was I'm sorry I say Devon. It

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Speaker 1: was in London, actually, that particular one, and it changed,

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Speaker 1: you know, in front of the My wife and I

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Speaker 1: were looking at it and it changed from triangular to

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Speaker 1: disc shape too. So they obviously have capacity, and I

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Speaker 1: think their biggest capacity, of course, is the ability to

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Speaker 1: blink out, you might say, to sort of the whole

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Speaker 1: concept of invisibility, which Helen Charman, as you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: astronomer here, raised the possibility that they could be invisible

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Speaker 1: to us. They have a control over the dimensions of space.

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Speaker 1: I believe you might call them that. Helen Charman, who's

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Speaker 1: fifty six now and was Britain's first astronaut when she

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Speaker 1: was just twenty seven. He has been interviewed by the

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Speaker 1: Observer out there, which you were a former calumnist for

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Speaker 1: and she told us, Yeah, she talked about the existence

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Speaker 1: of aliens. Now was she talking about little microbes or

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Speaker 1: the real big ets we've all been known. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because it was part of an interview, and it was

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Speaker 1: just one question in the interview, and it's the only

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Speaker 1: question that sort of got international cover exactly. It's strange though,

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Speaker 1: because when I wrote, as you write, so, I had

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Speaker 1: a column in that very magazine and it was a

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Speaker 1: mind and body column. I was always trying to get

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Speaker 1: it to be a mind, body and spirit column, and

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Speaker 1: they weren't willing to ever go that far. And if

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Speaker 1: I'd done a piece about, you know, invisible aliens in it,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't have been published. They don't think. So it's

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Speaker 1: great to see it there. But I think she was

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Speaker 1: certain well. She was definitely talking about intelligent life. From

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Speaker 1: what I can tell. She said, will they be like

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Speaker 1: you and me, made up of carbon and nitrogen? Maybe not.

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Speaker 1: It's possible they're here right now and we simply can't

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Speaker 1: see them. And she talks about there must be all

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Speaker 1: sorts of different life forms. So I can't speak for her,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly opens up the question of intelligent life.

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Speaker 1: Not just you might say microbe life. There have been

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Speaker 1: three astronauts now who have talked the pretty strongly about UFOs,

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Speaker 1: Helen being one astronaut, the late Gordon Cooper. He claimed

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Speaker 1: that he saw several UFOs filmed them and that they

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Speaker 1: were confiscated the pick, the video was confiscated, the film

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Speaker 1: was confiscated from him. And then Edgar Mitchell, whom we knew,

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Speaker 1: the Apollo fourteen astronaut, who told me he'd never saw anything,

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Speaker 1: but that he was ninety percent convinced from the people

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Speaker 1: he knew within government that we were being visited. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and lied to I think he really stuck his neck out,

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Speaker 1: didn't the Edgar Mitchell? Sure? Did you know? He didn't

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Speaker 1: mind what happened. He just said that the American government

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Speaker 1: and undoubtedly other governments are not telling us the truth.

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Speaker 1: Which you know, one thing I've noticed, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you must have noted more than me, George, But when

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Speaker 1: I was first speaking about this, you mentioned the House

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Speaker 1: of Lords Debaton. I was in my twenties then, and

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Speaker 1: some of the early papers that came over that I

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Speaker 1: brought here, and also so later I brought some papers

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Speaker 1: from Russia as well over here to York to Britain.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you'd gone out there and I used

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Speaker 1: to go out there and say, well, governments are lying

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Speaker 1: to us, you'd be regarded as a bit of a nutter,

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Speaker 1: a pretty eccentric sort of fringe person just for saying that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas now if you went out now and say, well, look,

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Speaker 1: governments are telling us the truth, we can trust them,

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Speaker 1: you'd be regarded as a complete nutter. Nobody believes them

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Speaker 1: at all anymore. But that's one massive shift I think.

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Speaker 1: I think opinion polls show that most people believe the

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Speaker 1: governments have lied to us on this topic. Whereas I

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Speaker 1: mean in never mind me, I mean doctor King did

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Speaker 1: a rally in a big square here called Trafalgar Square

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Speaker 1: in the west end of London in nineteen fifty eight

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Speaker 1: saying that governments were lying to us and then they

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Speaker 1: must tell us the truth about flying sources as it

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Speaker 1: was then. So I think there's been a massive shift.

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Speaker 1: And as you rightly say, people like Edgar Mitchell, Gordon

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Speaker 1: Cooper helped. I noticed the astronomer Chris Hadfield, who was

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Speaker 1: a former commander of the International Space Station, said I

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Speaker 1: don't know this is an exact quote I don't know

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Speaker 1: of any astronauts who think we're alone in the universe.

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Speaker 1: And that's quite a statement, really, because he must have

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Speaker 1: met quite a lot of astronauts. Absolutely, I mean they

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Speaker 1: have Sorry, no, you go ahead. I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: they must have access to information that we don't have,

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Speaker 1: and they, you know, astronaut after astronaut. Another one's Brian

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Speaker 1: O'Leary comes out, say, I mean Brian O'Leary, the late

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Speaker 1: Brian O'Leary, who was on a NASA mission in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven, said there's abundant evidence that were being contact.

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Speaker 1: Civilizations have been monitoring us for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: and that their appearance is bizarre from any type of

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Speaker 1: traditional materialistic Western point of view. They must know, I think,

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Speaker 1: another one being Michael Collins, Jeff Hoffman, one could go

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Speaker 1: on astronaut after astronaut has come back. Some of them

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Speaker 1: have had epiphanies in space, they say, a one kind

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Speaker 1: or another, sometimes religious ones. That's another interesting thing, I think, George,

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Speaker 1: is this a crossover between religion and science. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: you know that the sort of the science needing to

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Speaker 1: move towards the mystical in order to explain some of

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Speaker 1: its findings. Is it possible that governments are withholding information

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Speaker 1: because they are afraid that they will lose control over us?

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Speaker 1: I think it's I would be very confident that that

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Speaker 1: is a fact. I think that's one of their reasons. Now,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about I often ask this, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you are, but when is a good day really

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Speaker 1: for a prime minister or a president to come out

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Speaker 1: and say to their people, Look, folks, we have lied

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Speaker 1: to you for decades, you know, decsions. Just aren't you

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Speaker 1: lying to do things like that? On any day? They'll

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Speaker 1: just keep lying with their views. No, because occasionally you'll

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Speaker 1: get a politician who believes in UFOs will say so

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Speaker 1: we'll stick their head above the parapet, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: really go anywhere. And you know, several of promise to

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Speaker 1: release information. Sometimes it generally, if it comes out at all,

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Speaker 1: it comes out through the back door. I think, what

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Speaker 1: do you think of Louis Alazando, the former Pentagon official

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Speaker 1: who went public talking about UFOs and the things that

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Speaker 1: they could do. I love some of the things he said.

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Speaker 1: I think that one of the things he said, which

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Speaker 1: I really I latched onto, was that, in his view,

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Speaker 1: the I think he said that his whole experience showed

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Speaker 1: him that the UFOs that have been seen, tracked film,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, there is nothing. I think his phrase

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Speaker 1: was in the US inventory which is capable of that

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Speaker 1: or any other inventory. I think that's very important, because

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Speaker 1: I've noticed a big change. I mean in the sort

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Speaker 1: of the eighties and the nineties, the sort of explanations

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Speaker 1: you'd get to debunk UFOs, sometimes by government officials, sometimes

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Speaker 1: by individuals. We're pretty ludicrous, you know. I remember one

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Speaker 1: being a flock of mutton birds coming inland to mate,

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Speaker 1: and you'd get these players from a Japanese squid fleet.

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Speaker 1: But the latest thing seems to be, you know that

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Speaker 1: there's some secret terrestrial aircraft which they're testing, and therefore

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Speaker 1: that's the sort of new way of lying about UFOs,

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Speaker 1: pretending they're actually some of our secret craft from military establishments.

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Speaker 1: So Louis Elizondo coming on saying that the capacity of

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Speaker 1: UFOs is way beyond anything that we've got in America

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Speaker 1: or anywhere else, I think is a key statement. Why

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Speaker 1: are you a believer, Richard? I'm a believer, as I

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Speaker 1: mentioned the beginning, primarily for spiritual reasons. I am was

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Speaker 1: a very close friend and follower. I'm pleased to say

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Speaker 1: of doctor King and George King. Right, that's doctor George King, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: who founded the Ethereous Society. And he proved himself to

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Speaker 1: me in numerous ways, and one of the main ones

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Speaker 1: being the content of the many communications he received from

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Speaker 1: beings from other planets over a forty three year period consistently.

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Speaker 1: And I think anyone. I mean, I don't sort of

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Speaker 1: ask people to take my word for any of this,

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Speaker 1: or even take doctor King's word for it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at you can look into it, you can form

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Speaker 1: your own conclusions. But having sort of become involved, I've

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Speaker 1: also come across so much information. I mean, I'll give

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Speaker 1: you an example that I came across just yesterday, and George,

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Speaker 1: I was looking to prepare for this interview today. I

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Speaker 1: say yesterday. Actually it's probably well, it's just yesterday your time,

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Speaker 1: But it was on Tuesday, and I was looking at

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Speaker 1: the current NASA website on dark matter and dark energy,

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Speaker 1: because we tend to think that scientists now think that

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Speaker 1: less than five percent of the matter in the universe

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Speaker 1: is visible, so they're really on our page, which they

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Speaker 1: didn't used to be. I mean, they are absolutely clear

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Speaker 1: that there is such a thing as invisible matter. In fact,

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Speaker 1: most of the universe is invisible matter. But one particular

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Speaker 1: paragraph on the NASA site really interested me, and I'll

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Speaker 1: just read a little bit of it if I may

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Speaker 1: appreciate another explanation for dark energy. It says is that

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Speaker 1: it is a new kind of dynamical energy, fluid or field,

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Speaker 1: something that fills all of space, but something whose effect

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Speaker 1: on the expansion of the universe is the opposite of

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Speaker 1: that of matter and normal energy. Some theorists have named

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Speaker 1: this quintessence after the fifth element of the Greek philosophers.

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Speaker 1: Now I mentioned that George is the fifth element of

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Speaker 1: the Greek philosophers is ether. In fact, our society is

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Speaker 1: named after that Greek word aete r or we're etherius.

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Speaker 1: That is really the basis of alchemy, It's the basis

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Speaker 1: even perhaps more importantly, of yoga philosophy, the concept of prana,

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Speaker 1: the concept of g and so even on a Nassa's site,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is wonderful thing. You have a

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Speaker 1: move or a suggestion anyway, of the need to move

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Speaker 1: towards these mystical or spiritual concepts in order to explain

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Speaker 1: matter in the universe and in terms of UFOs their

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Speaker 1: ability to disappear. The concept that Helen Sharman came up

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Speaker 1: of invisible aliens, that was pretty unity. It was interesting

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Speaker 1: and unique for her to say that, wasn't it. It

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Speaker 1: really was, and it really struck me. And it's absolutely

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Speaker 1: in line with certainly what Dot King was saying when

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Speaker 1: he started our organization in nineteen fifty five, and I

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Speaker 1: think was a coming together. I mean, even you can.

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Speaker 1: You can look at a more orthodox organization like the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church and you'll find the late Cardinal I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: Monsignor Balducci, who was very close. I'm sure you've covered

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Speaker 1: him before, but he looked at the possibility of beings

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Speaker 1: with less material substance than ourselves. Another key phrase from

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Speaker 1: a very different quarter. And you know, I know the

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Speaker 1: Pope has offered to baptize aliens. I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: a cue for fourth that, but in a way, it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing. They're opening up the door to this

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Speaker 1: possibility and everyone needs to move I think in that direction.

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Speaker 1: I don't think one can answer the great spiritual or

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Speaker 1: scientific questions now without addressing life on other planets. Since

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Speaker 1: all this has been going on, the media coverage is

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Speaker 1: still a little questionable with regards to UFOs, don't you

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Speaker 1: think I couldn't agree more? And may I give an

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Speaker 1: example of this. On Sunday that's just gone two days ago,

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Speaker 1: the biggest selling newspaper in Britain, and actually I once

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Speaker 1: wrote a front page about an encounter between the equity

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Speaker 1: of the of the Duke of Edinburgh, the husband of

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Speaker 1: the Queen, with an alien intelligence, which is on the

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Speaker 1: front page of this paper is called The Sun. But

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Speaker 1: I noticed on Sunday they had something like nine whole

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Speaker 1: pages about our Prince Harry and Meghan. Oh my god, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was everywhere. I don't know whether she's hit the

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Speaker 1: news there or they has she's hid some of our

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Speaker 1: cable outlets and stuff like that. So I had to

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Speaker 1: go all the way through to page fourteen, having gone

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Speaker 1: through these whole pages about this, to find a tiny

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Speaker 1: little article just about three inches long, which actually revealed

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Speaker 1: the fact that the US Navy has admitted they've got

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Speaker 1: secret footage of a UFO encounter. And I think that

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Speaker 1: illustrates your very point, George. I mean, no, the media

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Speaker 1: still haven't caught up. Thank goodness for programs like well

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Speaker 1: your program I think is absolutely crucial in our world.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more