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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grassoe from Bloomberg Radio. Well,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court play a role in the outcome of

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Speaker 1: the presidential race. Well, both the Trump and Biden campaigns

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Speaker 1: have set up legal team war rooms to plan for

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Speaker 1: a range of contingencies with short lists of top Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court litigators. The Supreme Court has been addressing last minute

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Speaker 1: pre election skirmishes over the rules for casting and counting

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Speaker 1: ballots in the presidential election, joining me as election law

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Speaker 1: expert Richard Brafalled the Professor Columbia Law School by a

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Speaker 1: five to three vote. The Court rejected Democrats request to

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Speaker 1: reinstate a six day extension for the receipt of mail

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Speaker 1: and ballots in Wisconsin, of course, a pivotal state in

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Speaker 1: this election. Tell us what the reasoning was in the

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Speaker 1: concurring and dissenting opinions, right, So there was no opinion

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Speaker 1: for the court. So there were four opinions, three current

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Speaker 1: opinions won by the Chief Justice, won by Coursach, and

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Speaker 1: the longest one by Kavanaugh. And then there was a

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Speaker 1: dissent by Justice Kagan that was joined by Bryan so

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Speaker 1: of Mayor. So long opinion by Justice Kavanaugh had two

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Speaker 1: main points. One, and this is consistent with the points

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Speaker 1: in other decisions of the Court in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of months, is the so called for sale principle, the

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Speaker 1: idea that federal courts should not be changing the laws

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Speaker 1: governing elections in the pre election period, and that's been

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Speaker 1: a constant that they constantly invoked by the Court in

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Speaker 1: all of its recent cases in which it struck down

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Speaker 1: or stayed a lower court decision changing some aspect of

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Speaker 1: state election law. The other point that he raised, which

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Speaker 1: is also echoed in Justice Corsages concurring opinion, but only

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Speaker 1: made by the two of them, is the idea that

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Speaker 1: when it comes to writing election laws, even elections that

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Speaker 1: governed federal elections, that that is an area where the

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Speaker 1: state legislator or they're in charge, that the Constitution points

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Speaker 1: to state legislatures in steading the laws for federal elections,

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Speaker 1: and so it's particularly inappropriate for federal courts to intervene,

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Speaker 1: even with state lessity with federal elections. The two of

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Speaker 1: them indicate that this goes beyond just the last minute

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Speaker 1: intervention of the so called for cell principle, the anti

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Speaker 1: lessment prevention and its more substances that the Constitution actually

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Speaker 1: constrains what courts can do to change state legislative rules.

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Speaker 1: And indeed, the two of them and Kavanaugh at grant

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Speaker 1: length basically say that this is a principle that would

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Speaker 1: also apply to state court decisions that change the election

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Speaker 1: rules state legislative rules that governed federal elections, and not

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Speaker 1: just federal court decisions. Some people are looking at what

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Speaker 1: Justice Kavanaugh wrote and saying this foreshadows what happened in

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Speaker 1: Bush v. Gore, that the Supreme Court could disrupt the

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Speaker 1: vote count, that state courts don't have the last word. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and Bush be Gore. Three justices of the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: embraced the idea that state courts cannot modify even state laws,

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Speaker 1: even interpreting their own state constitution, cannot modify state laws

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Speaker 1: when they apply to federal elections like a presidential election.

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Speaker 1: Three justices took that position. The two justices and made

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Speaker 1: the majority went off on the equal protection clause, on

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Speaker 1: the idea that the order that the Florida Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: had issued in Bush be Gore resulted in the unequal

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Speaker 1: treatment of votes in different places. The majorities who that

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Speaker 1: has never embraced this is what's called the independent state

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Speaker 1: legislature doctrine, the idea that no one can can change

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Speaker 1: what a state legislature does, not even a state Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: But certainly now you're hearing both Kavanaugh and Gorset's taking

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Speaker 1: that position, and I believe Justice Thomas within the group

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Speaker 1: that voted that way back in Bush the core. The

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Speaker 1: other two justices were anquished and Scalia, who, of course

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Speaker 1: you no longer on the court. The Wisconsin case follows

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Speaker 1: a fourta four Supreme Court decision that allowed three extra

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Speaker 1: days for ballots to arrive in Pennsylvania. It seems to

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Speaker 1: be on its face, a direct contradiction. The big difference

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Speaker 1: between the two cases is the Pennsylvania case came up

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Speaker 1: as an appeal from the decision of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court,

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Speaker 1: pasling Supreme Court interpreting its state statute and its Constitution,

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Speaker 1: and the different vote with Chief Justice Roberts declining to

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Speaker 1: stay that order in the Pennsylvania case, but voting to

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Speaker 1: stay the order of the federal District Court in the

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Speaker 1: wisconsint case. And he has a brief concurrence in the

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin case pointing out that the criteria are different when

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Speaker 1: the underlying order urns some a state high court as

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Speaker 1: opposed to a federal district court. There's been some talk

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Speaker 1: about the fact that there are now three justices on

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Speaker 1: the court who worked on the Bush fee Gore case

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Speaker 1: on the Republican side. Does that make a difference, right?

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Speaker 1: I mean in the sense that they are familiar with

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Speaker 1: how election litigation works. I mean, the one difference at

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Speaker 1: the moment is that, um, all of the court decisions

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Speaker 1: that are being challenged, and of course came down before

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Speaker 1: the vote. I mean, Bush speaker was about issues about

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Speaker 1: how to count ballots where it wasn't clear how the

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Speaker 1: voters said what it wasn't clear how the how the

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Speaker 1: voter had masfestated is or her vote is, the so

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Speaker 1: called hanging chats and voters when there were ballots that

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Speaker 1: were that were marked but roaring clearly marked or clearly

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Speaker 1: enough marked be treated as it for a particular candidate,

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Speaker 1: and how and the role of the courts in trying

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Speaker 1: to sort of set rules to how to read those ballots.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot of anxiety than that that

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Speaker 1: there was going to be a lot of um, kind

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Speaker 1: of inconsistent treatment of ballots depending on who the ballot counters.

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Speaker 1: Worked here. Now it's more upfront, it's it's before petion.

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Speaker 1: There's still this issue of changing the rules. And I

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Speaker 1: guess what you would say is um putting aside for

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Speaker 1: a second the partisan considerations. Maybe we shouldn't put aside

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Speaker 1: the partisan considerations, but putting aside. There is this strong

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Speaker 1: flavor of the Republicans on the Supreme Court now that

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Speaker 1: courts shouldn't be changing the rules, that if anybody is

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Speaker 1: going to change the rules, it should be the state legislature. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And when the state legislature hasn't changed the rules, the

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Speaker 1: courts should not be. And the remaining Democrats on the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, their philosophy has been it's given that there's

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Speaker 1: a pandemic, given that there's an emergency, it's appropriate to

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Speaker 1: modify the rules to take the conditions created by the

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Speaker 1: emergency into account. And so there is obviously there's a

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Speaker 1: partisan aspect to this. These are these these judges when

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Speaker 1: they were younger lawyers were all active partisans on the

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Speaker 1: Republican side. So there's clearly a part of the aspect

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Speaker 1: to it. But there's also kind of an ideological aspect

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Speaker 1: about kind of uh, is it is it appropriate for

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Speaker 1: the courts to make it easier to vote during a

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Speaker 1: endemic or two courts have to stay out. And it's

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Speaker 1: this a matter only for the legislature. So we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this before, but I'm going to ask you the

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Speaker 1: question again, now that you have a full Supreme Court panel,

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Speaker 1: how likely is it that there could be another case

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Speaker 1: after the election similar to Bush v. Gore in that

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Speaker 1: it will be up to the Supreme Court to decide

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Speaker 1: the count in a in a state that's a swing state,

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Speaker 1: that's an important state, right, I mean, obviously, the key

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Speaker 1: thing is whether the election will hinge on one state

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Speaker 1: or I guess, or even if I guess, it might

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Speaker 1: be more than one state. If the gap if no

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Speaker 1: one candidate has gotten up to to seventy and the

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Speaker 1: state or states in dispute would do it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what nates Bush for the course. So central is

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Speaker 1: that Florida was absolutely despositive, and you know, the state

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Speaker 1: could be a swing state but not be the kipping

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Speaker 1: point state. So obviously, I mean it could very well

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Speaker 1: be that how a given state like Pennsylvania, how it's

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Speaker 1: electoral votes are resolved mag wind up in the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: But it's really only gonna matter, and we're not going

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Speaker 1: to know this for another week. If that state or

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Speaker 1: maybe another state, maybe Wisconsin, is a tipping point state

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Speaker 1: and that was what made Bush versus Core so incredibly important,

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Speaker 1: and that's when we're not going to know that until

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Speaker 1: you know more of the vote commit But it's certainly

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Speaker 1: possible that the election will come down to one or

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Speaker 1: a couple of states, and they'll be dispute about which

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Speaker 1: ballots ought to be counted. If the state has, you know,

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Speaker 1: allowed absentee ballots to come in under rules that were

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Speaker 1: not the rules that are more uh liberal, more forgiving

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Speaker 1: to the voter than the rules that are on the books,

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Speaker 1: we may very well see some litigation on that. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about Nevada because President Trump filed the

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Speaker 1: election lawsuit last Friday, and it's about observation of the ballot.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of observation is allowed? Because President Trump

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Speaker 1: has also complained about out people in Pennsylvania, his people

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Speaker 1: not being able to view the process, what kind of

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Speaker 1: access to the ballot counting are counts allowed to have. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's going to turn on the law of the state.

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Speaker 1: I mean, in general, states to provide that there should

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Speaker 1: be a representative of each party present, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: on ballots are being counted. But the states obviously have

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Speaker 1: some leeway in deciding, like how many people on each

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Speaker 1: side are present and what they're you know, and in

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Speaker 1: what formed their present. I think so long as their

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Speaker 1: balanced for the two sides, you can't demand that there'll

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Speaker 1: be a large contingent of your people there, that people

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Speaker 1: carrying guns can go in the way some of those

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Speaker 1: militias have been trying to be a polling places. States

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Speaker 1: generally have rules about, you know, making sure that there

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Speaker 1: is bi part is an observation of how ballots are

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Speaker 1: counted at some stage. It doesn't have to be in

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Speaker 1: each polling place. But this is one where if if

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Speaker 1: he's trying to change the rules, you know, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: not clear that that should be allowed. Finally, does all

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Speaker 1: this litigation, this unpreceded amount of litigation before an election,

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Speaker 1: Does that hint at a post election landslide of litigation?

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Speaker 1: I think a lot is going to turn on whether

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Speaker 1: the results are within the marginal litigation. The litigation after

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Speaker 1: the election will only matter if it's close enough so

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Speaker 1: that the litigation can either require the counting of ballots

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Speaker 1: that were encountered or lead to the tossing of ballots

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Speaker 1: that were accepted. And again we're talking state by state.

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Speaker 1: If the margin in the state is so big that

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Speaker 1: litigation is not going to change the outcome, then you're

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Speaker 1: not going to see much of it. But if we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of close states, and then I can't

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Speaker 1: quite tell you what the marginal litigation really is going

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Speaker 1: to be, and they turn on just how many absentee

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Speaker 1: ballots are there and how many can be plausibly challenged.

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Speaker 1: I mean, usually the cases in which litigation really matters,

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Speaker 1: the margins between the candidates are pretty close. I mean

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Speaker 1: we're talking about even though after me bouts have a

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Speaker 1: higher ERRA rate traditionally than regular belts, We're only talking

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Speaker 1: about a few percentage points. So a lot will turn

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Speaker 1: on just how close the election is in any given state,

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Speaker 1: whether it is within the marginal litigation, and that we

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Speaker 1: will know, hopefully next week. Thanks rich that's Richard the

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Speaker 1: Fault of Columbia Law School. Mississippi retired the last state

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Speaker 1: flag with the Confederate battle emblem. In June. Republican Governor

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Speaker 1: Tate Reeves signed the bill removing official status for the

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Speaker 1: one six year old flag with the stars and bars

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Speaker 1: Confederate battle emblem. I know there are people of goodwill

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Speaker 1: who are not happy to see this flag change. They

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Speaker 1: fear a chain reaction of events erasing our history, a

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Speaker 1: history that is no doubt complicated and imperfect. I understand

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Speaker 1: those concerns and am determined to protect Mississippi from that

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Speaker 1: dangerous outcome. On Tuesday, the state's voters will disside whether

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Speaker 1: a flag bearing the motto in God we Trust under

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Speaker 1: a white magnolia flower should now fly over the state.

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Speaker 1: But ballot initiatives in Rhode Island, Utah, and Nebraska show

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Speaker 1: that reminders of slavery extend beyond the Deep South. My

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Speaker 1: guest is Anne Bailey, a professor of history at the

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Speaker 1: State University of New York at Binghamton. How important is

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Speaker 1: it that voters are going to decide on a new

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Speaker 1: flag from Mississippi. It's important because I think literally since

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Speaker 1: the end of slavery, from the Civil War and the

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Speaker 1: end of slavery and the end of the Civil Wars,

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Speaker 1: there has been the struggle to determine, you know, what

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Speaker 1: place should the Confederacy which lost the war, which is

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Speaker 1: why we have the United States. What place should the

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Speaker 1: Confederacy and the memory of it we have in our

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Speaker 1: public life. Um, And I should just say, just in principle,

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Speaker 1: this is not looking at American history, but it's in

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Speaker 1: principle across the world, whenever you lose the war, you

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Speaker 1: are not um venerated in the highest office or in

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Speaker 1: you know, in public spaces as if you as if

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Speaker 1: you want. So. I mean, I think there's just that

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Speaker 1: on just a simple level, that it conveys the wrong

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Speaker 1: image of not just the state, but the country and

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Speaker 1: what we feel about the United States of America, because

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Speaker 1: we have to remember that the war was fought about

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Speaker 1: uniting the United States, about keeping the Union, about being

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Speaker 1: who we are now. So I think it's really important

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Speaker 1: for Mississippi and all states and everywhere where they're Confederate

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Speaker 1: emblems to understand that. Um, you know, what are we

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Speaker 1: trying to say. If we're trying to spell a little

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Speaker 1: bit of history in a museum, that's different. If we're

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Speaker 1: trying to contextualize the statue and say what it represents

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Speaker 1: who we purposeful yard now, that's different. But something that

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Speaker 1: represents the entire state and everybody in the state, I

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Speaker 1: think can't be so directly associated with the losing side

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Speaker 1: of the war, which of course would have been a Confederate. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I just think on a very simple level, this

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Speaker 1: had to be done. And I'm glad to see that

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Speaker 1: people of Mississippi are taking this of moving in this

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Speaker 1: direction on their own. So this flag was chosen by

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Speaker 1: a commission, I believe the new flag. So are the

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Speaker 1: voters expected to approve it? It's it appears that they are.

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Speaker 1: They have in the past. Uh, you know, first of all,

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Speaker 1: they had I want to say, you know, curdess to

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Speaker 1: them for having a very democratic process about the change.

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Speaker 1: Um I had in previous writings and so forth, I

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Speaker 1: have said in talks, I have been very clear that

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Speaker 1: I thought that, um you, in general, this should be

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Speaker 1: done through a democratic process. If we believe in democracy,

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Speaker 1: we have to practice it. And sometimes it takes up

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Speaker 1: a while. Sometimes it's it's long and drawn out, but

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Speaker 1: it's something that it's really it's more people buy into

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Speaker 1: something by definition, and they're going to they're going to

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Speaker 1: own it and they're going to defend it. So in

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Speaker 1: the past and just in the in the last few years,

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Speaker 1: they had a referendum before on this issue, and they

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Speaker 1: did not, um, they did not want to change it.

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Speaker 1: So I think, you know, the fact that this is

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Speaker 1: something they decided on their own, um through their representatives,

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Speaker 1: that they might potentially want to change, means that it's

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Speaker 1: a good chance that it will change. And if not

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Speaker 1: this season, perhaps the next one. I hope it will

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Speaker 1: because election season. Well, it might seem surprising that some

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Speaker 1: people were surprising to me that Rhode Island, which you know,

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Speaker 1: is the state you don't associate with slavery. The official

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Speaker 1: name of the state is the state of Rhode Island

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Speaker 1: and Providence Plantations. And there was a proposal to trim

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Speaker 1: that before and that proposal failed. Right Well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: as I I also liked to remind people, and I've

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Speaker 1: written about in my books, you know, we don't associate

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island with slavery, but we should. So let's start there.

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Speaker 1: And New York and Massachusetts. I mean, you know, states

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Speaker 1: like Rhode Island. First of all, they had slavery. They

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Speaker 1: didn't ban it till eighteen forty three. Now that said,

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Speaker 1: it was not on a very large scale in the

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Speaker 1: same way that you had it in the South. And

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Speaker 1: they also should be said that, um, you know, Rhode Islands,

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Speaker 1: obviously in New York and places like that, many other

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Speaker 1: places in the North, slavery did kind of diet somewhat

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Speaker 1: of a natural death, certainly um before business Civil War

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty one. So you do have a different

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Speaker 1: picture North versus South. There's no question about that. At

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Speaker 1: least a few decades before there's a civil war, you

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Speaker 1: have slavery dying out in many places in the North.

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Speaker 1: But what is not immediately obvious to us, but it's

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Speaker 1: clearly in the record, very much in the record, is

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Speaker 1: that not only they have slavery, but they had slave

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Speaker 1: trade dirt. And that's the important piece, is that you

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Speaker 1: had prominent slave traders from Rhode Islands, from Boston, from Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: from New York, with the South Street Sport in the

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Speaker 1: latter part of the slave trade going to Africa, sending

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Speaker 1: ships to Africa, you know, to you know, be a

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Speaker 1: part of the Atlantic slave trade, which in its last

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Speaker 1: year's and last decades was actually picking up steam. So

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island was very much a part of that. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a it's a legacy that frankly,

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Speaker 1: some are beginning to deal with. That's got the Rhode

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Speaker 1: Island Medallion project. I think that's the name of it.

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Speaker 1: Whether they're beginning to put medallions around different places in

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island where, um, which are connected in some ways

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Speaker 1: of slavery, because because exactly because of your question, because

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Speaker 1: this idea of Rhode al and being associated with slavery

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Speaker 1: is not immediately apparent. Perhaps it's not taught as well

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Speaker 1: as it should be in schools, which is an issue,

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Speaker 1: and so forth. So yes, it doesn't surprise me, um, frankly,

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Speaker 1: And what what I hope will happen again in this

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Speaker 1: case is that there is a growing desire to move

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Speaker 1: really away from that past, that they will see that

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Speaker 1: there's no reason to have that as a part of

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Speaker 1: the name of the stay. Also surprising is that the

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Speaker 1: state constitutions of Nebraska and Utah have provisions allowing slavery

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Speaker 1: and involuntary servitude as punishment for people convicted of crime,

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Speaker 1: and there are ballot initiatives in those states to remove

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Speaker 1: those provisions right now. This is this is a very

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Speaker 1: interesting topic because um, in general, let me say that, UM, so,

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Speaker 1: I love the South of the United States. I do

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Speaker 1: a lot of work in the Southern States. With Georgia

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Speaker 1: and South Carolina. UM, I'm a big I'm very pro South.

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Speaker 1: So I want to I want to say that from

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Speaker 1: the standpoint of side of the fact, Pride spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time on this history, and it's very difficult

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Speaker 1: and it has a very difficult path. I you know,

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Speaker 1: there are many things to appreciate about the new stuff.

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Speaker 1: Let me say this, So South is so much associated

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Speaker 1: with slavery, and then the rest of the country somehow

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Speaker 1: we have forgotten as I mentioned before, that the North

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Speaker 1: was involved in trading, also involved in slavery. I should

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Speaker 1: also add um the North also um had factories that

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Speaker 1: were um based, re operating and manufacturing slaves by products.

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Speaker 1: So they're actually working with Southern planters in many ways, UM,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the general economy. But when you think

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Speaker 1: about Utah and Nebraska states like this, again you don't

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Speaker 1: think you're right, you do not associate the slavery. But

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Speaker 1: the factives that the federal government, our constitution, the thirteenth

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Speaker 1: Amendment has exactly the same clause which says there should

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Speaker 1: be no slavery except the punishment as a crime. So

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Speaker 1: you know, to that extent, it's it's you can see

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Speaker 1: you where some of the states picked up on the

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Speaker 1: very same, very same clause which is still on the

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Speaker 1: books for the federal government, um, and now of their

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Speaker 1: own initiatives. These states, against be commended, are saying, why

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Speaker 1: do we have this? You know, there should be no

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Speaker 1: slavery period period, no slavery in any US there, very period.

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Speaker 1: That that would be an amazing stance for human rights

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Speaker 1: if not only do these states take it, but that

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Speaker 1: we take a look again at the thirteenth Amendment and

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Speaker 1: ask ourselves whether as a people we would like that

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Speaker 1: to remain. UM. I might add here that the movie

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Speaker 1: thirteen via Eva Devourney and others, UM, that's very popular documentary.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the things they raised in that

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Speaker 1: documentary was whether or not it's time for us to

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Speaker 1: amend the thirteenth Amendment. UM. Where that so so that

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Speaker 1: it would say there should be no slavery period in

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Speaker 1: the United States of America, not for a punishment of client,

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Speaker 1: not for anything. There's no caveats, no clauses, subordinate clause

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Speaker 1: is attached, just an unequivocal stance against slavery. Are there

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Speaker 1: other states that have that language in their state constitutions?

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Speaker 1: I do not know off hand. But what I would

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Speaker 1: like to say about this process, and once again I'm

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Speaker 1: happy that it's happening democratically, is that you know we

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Speaker 1: have you know, we have modern bay slavery. I want

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Speaker 1: to to really give a first of all, command those

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Speaker 1: modern day abolitionists who are out there, who often are

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Speaker 1: working in the I would say, in the trenches. Quietly,

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Speaker 1: they don't get a lot of no one is asking

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Speaker 1: them a lot of customs about what they do if

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Speaker 1: they certainly don't get a lot of airtime, TV and

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Speaker 1: so forth. But you know there are people who are

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Speaker 1: working on modern day slavery and so staficking, not just

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Speaker 1: here but around the world. UM. And I can say

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Speaker 1: that wherever if this work to happen, but not only

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Speaker 1: in space where this is the case, but if it

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Speaker 1: where to happen in terms of a revision, a competitutional

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Speaker 1: revision of the certain amendment, I think this would give

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Speaker 1: a real boost two people working in this area. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think it would really get people, put people's attention

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Speaker 1: back on the fact that slavor is not you know,

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Speaker 1: involuntary service TOD is not over around the world. So

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Speaker 1: we're not just talking about the path that we're also

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Speaker 1: talking about the present. Is this the end of it

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Speaker 1: or is there more to be found in this country

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Speaker 1: relating to slavery that has to be exercised. I think

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Speaker 1: we are we are likely to find um some of

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Speaker 1: this elsewhere, and I want to say it is such

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Speaker 1: a healthy process of the country to go through. And

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Speaker 1: the very I think we all know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of this reckoning is happening. Is happening because of what's

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Speaker 1: just placed this summer. UM. Not to say that they

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Speaker 1: weren't always act this on the ground, and these politicians

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Speaker 1: or others who were trying to get this and get

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Speaker 1: at pension to these issues, for example, with the Confederate

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Speaker 1: Statute UM. You know, many of us have been writing

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Speaker 1: about these statues and memorials for a long time, UM

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Speaker 1: and saying that either should be a democratic process to

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Speaker 1: consider whether or not they stay up or they go down,

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Speaker 1: or whether they're just if they stay up, they're contextualized,

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Speaker 1: or that once again, it's clear that they lost the war.

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Speaker 1: It's clear that you would not have a United States

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Speaker 1: of America. You know, if we have continued to if

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Speaker 1: we continue to validate um the Confederate cause, and that

406
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Speaker 1: obviously they were pro slavery, and that is not a

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Speaker 1: stance that we are for now. So there are many

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Speaker 1: of us who have been writing about this and talking

409
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Speaker 1: about it and wishing for a democratic process for this

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Speaker 1: to be addressed and and very largely falling on deaf ears.

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Speaker 1: What happened this summer with the death of George Floyd

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Speaker 1: and um, these other clearly anti black racist incidents, UM,

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Speaker 1: was that it really did in in some ways, really

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Speaker 1: move so many aspects of the public, so many different people. Um. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've been you know, I've been doing this for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Uh, and I have to say that I've

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Speaker 1: never seen such a you know, outpouring of a desire

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Speaker 1: to really examine, um, some of these issues and real

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Speaker 1: self examination. And so what you're seeing it's not it's

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Speaker 1: really not just okay, the corporation is saying what should

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Speaker 1: we do? And sometimes they do that for different reasons, right,

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Speaker 1: sometimes their own commercial reasons. But you are seeing even archives,

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Speaker 1: um opening up and saying, you know, I think you'd

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Speaker 1: see Alabama archives, um, you know, their Stay archives saying

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Speaker 1: you know, we were we were started to validize the

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Speaker 1: Confederate cause they they came out with a statement on

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Speaker 1: their own and I saw that I was just just

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Speaker 1: you know, happily shocked, to be honest with you, or

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Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, this is what what what our

430
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Speaker 1: beginnings were, and we are now having our own reckoning,

431
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Speaker 1: saying we have to contextualize these documents and we have

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Speaker 1: to do better in terms of diversity and all these things.

433
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: Nobody asked them. They nobody's you know, protested in front

434
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: of their doors. I mean, I just think this is

435
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: remarkable that they themselves realize that we have to look

436
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: back to be able to move forward. And so I

437
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: think there is a lot to be done, and they're

438
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: going to be more these, um, you know, state initiatives

439
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: if you look, because there's a lot of there's so

440
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: many state laws and rules of course, right, there's just

441
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: so many, and some of them no one take the

442
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: pitch too. And some of them really do not matter

443
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: anymore and they're they're obsolete, and so maybe we can

444
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: just you know, maybe people have to pay attention for

445
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: that reason. But this is a moment to pay attention

446
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: to some of those small rules and laws because it

447
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: at least says to the rest of the state. Um,

448
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: this is a direction that we're going. We're going in

449
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: a more positive and progressive direction, and so I expect

450
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: more of this. I hope for more of it, quite frankly,

451
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: and we don't know where it's going to come from.

452
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, because every state has their own

453
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: set of laws. Again, many of these things are there

454
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: on the books, but they practically op the book because

455
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: nobody pays attention. But if they can put some attention

456
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: in some light on these issues, I think that's gonna

457
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: be good for that state. I really think so. Certainly

458
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: in the case of Mississippi, what we're saying now, you

459
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: know Mississippi and their places like this, which is they

460
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: have lost business because of this. There's there's space where

461
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: people don't want to go and show to sound. They

462
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: don't want to go and you know, invest money because

463
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: they say, you know that flag. I don't think so. Um.

464
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: You know, this has happened, and I think that's a

465
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: a So even making the more public stamps about these

466
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: different issues, I think it's going to be good for

467
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: these states, and it's going to be good for the

468
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: people of these states, but certainly for people of color

469
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: um who have had to, you know, to live within

470
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: indignity for a very long time. You know. Again I

471
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: my hope as well, which I said, and I want

472
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: to be very clear that you know, changing these rules

473
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: is taking away to plantations. The most important Changing the

474
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: flags very important, UM and any other flags like this,

475
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: the Confederate monuments, you know, having a democratic process to

476
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: look at these issues. But I I want to say

477
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: that I hope is that no one will stop here,

478
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: that this is not enough. It still it still will not.

479
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's the beginning of spystemic change, but it's

480
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: not the end of systemic change. And so that's really important.

481
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: I think making these changes, I will not say they're

482
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: couse my they're not symbolic. They're much more than symbolic.

483
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: And there's much more than cosmetic changes. But if Mississippi,

484
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: for example, which which routinely is in the bottom you know,

485
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: bottom five education statistics, right economics and so forth, if

486
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: they and that disproportionately affects people of color in that state,

487
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: if they want to address those issues, changing the flag

488
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: will not be enough. And so I think, you know,

489
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: this is a program about laws. UM laws also will

490
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: affect you know, positive laws will also affect the education,

491
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: the incarceration rate, all of that of people of color

492
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: in that state. And I just want to just exhort

493
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: and encourage, um, politicians access others to keep on going

494
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: in that direction, not stop at the change of the flag,

495
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: not stop at the change of a specific law, um,

496
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: but really look at some of the root issues, root

497
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: causes of the disparities that we faced. Thanks Anne. That's

498
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: a Bailey of the State University of New York at Binghamton.

499
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: And that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Show.

500
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news on

501
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Lawn Podcast. You can find them on iTunes, SoundCloud,

502
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: or at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, Slash Law. I'm

503
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: June Grasso. Thanks so much for listening, and remember to

504
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: tune to The Bloomberg Law Show every week night at

505
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: ten pm Eastern right here on Bloomberg Radio.