1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Hey, a quick note before we start this episode. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 2: This is the second part of a two part special, 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: so we encourage you to go back and listen to 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: part one of the Strange Death of Jose de Jesus 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: because we'll be referring to it in this episode. And 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: a quick warning, especially for those with little ones, there's 7 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 2: some graphic language in the story about suicide that may 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: be difficult for some listeners and may not be appropriate 9 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 2: for young children. 10 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 3: From Futuro Media, It's Latino usay. I'm Maria no Josa. 11 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: This is part two of our two part series The 12 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 3: Strange Death of Jose Dejsous. In this series, we've been 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: telling the story of Hosein Dejsu's de Nie Sawn. He 14 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 3: was found dead at the Eloy immigration detention facility in 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: Arizona in twenty fifteen, with Asak stuffed down his throat. 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 3: Producers Marlon Bishop, Fernanda Chari and myself first reported our 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 3: investigation about his death in twenty sixteen as a way 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 3: to tell a larger story about the conditions inside these 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 3: immigration detention facilities. It's been four years since then, but 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 3: Rose's story is more relevant than ever. Around forty immigrants 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 3: have died in detention since President Trump took office, bringing 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: the total to over two hundred since two thousand and four. 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: When we left off last week, we had just received 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: a package in the mail containing surveillance footage from the 25 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 3: Eloid Detention facility from the exact day that Jose Dejsus died. 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: We had requested it from the local police department. We 27 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 3: hoped it would provide us with some clues as to 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 3: exactly what happened to Jose Dejssus. 29 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: The first video has four hours of surveillance footage from 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: May twenty, twenty fifteen, the de Jose died. The video 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: is grainy and it has no sound, and this is 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: on the day of his death on May twentieth, twenty fifteen. 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's start. 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: The surveillance camera is looking down at what seems to 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: be one of the medical units at the Eloid Detention Center. 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: In the video, we see detainees walking around. Some are 37 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: on crutches, two others are being pushed around in wheelchairs. 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: This is clearly a low level holding area. 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 4: So remember this is the point at which Jose is 40 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 4: still locked up by himself, but he's no longer on 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: suicide watch. He's been downgraded and we don't really know why, 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 4: and now he's being checked on every fifteen minutes by 43 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 4: a guard. That's what I say that the shower area maybe. 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 45 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: In the video, at about two thirty pm, we finally 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: see Jose. We see two guards walk up to his 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: cell and escort him out. They walk him to the 48 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: back of the frame and he walks into an area 49 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: that the camera can't see, but we know from police 50 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 2: documents that this is when Jose took a shower. 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: Minutes later, he's escorted back to his cell. 52 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: This is the last Jose is seen walking around, and 53 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: it's the last time he leaves the cell where he dies. 54 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: About three hours go by in the surveillance footage, and 55 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: every fifteen minutes a guard is seen walking by Jose's door, 56 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: looking in and writing something down on a clipboard that's 57 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: hanging outside his door. 58 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 4: These are the checks that the doctor ordered, and yes, 59 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 4: the guard does come by every fifteen minutes, although he 60 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 4: doesn't spend much more than a few seconds looking in 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 4: when he walks by. 62 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: Then, at the five thirty pm check, the guard doesn't 63 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 3: just walk by. This time, he looks in and then pauses, 64 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: looks in. 65 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: At five twenty seven, stairs knocks on the door to 66 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,119 Speaker 2: Jose's cell. 67 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 4: The guard is bending over looking inside through a cutout 68 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: in the door that they used to give detainees their food, 69 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 4: and he continues to bend down for a couple of minutes, 70 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 4: perhaps calling out his name. 71 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: And now he's standing there, looks unsure, looks in again, doesn't. 72 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: Look at his call prolp. Now he's moving quickly to 73 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 4: sign that he realized something must be wrong. 74 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: Now they've got a detainee looking in the door, probably 75 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 3: speaking Spanish. 76 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 4: No response. 77 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: He comes back with a few more guards. They open 78 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: the door for a second and then quickly shut it again. 79 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 3: One by one, five guards and two nurses gather outside 80 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: the door, waiting for another guard to come with a 81 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: protective shield. Seven minutes have gone by since the guard 82 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 3: found him unresponsive. Finally they opened the door and move in. 83 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 3: This is where the second video comes in. It's a 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: handheld video taken by a guard in that very moment, 85 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: the moment the guards and medical staff enter hoses cell. 86 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god. All right, 87 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 3: so the first thing we see is actually just a 88 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 3: stop frame of some feet like looking like they're running. 89 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: How long the video is? How long is it? 90 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 5: Two? 91 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 4: Three? Oh my god, this. 92 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 2: Is going to be intense people. The video starts with 93 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: Jose lying face down on a green mattress. He's not moving, 94 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: and the first guard that goes in puts a riot 95 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: shield on his back. 96 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: Jose is still alive but unresponsive. 97 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: Now Jose is clearly making choking sounds and his body 98 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 3: is entirely limbed. Somebody misdiagnoses and says he's having a seizure. 99 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: Somebody else says, if he's seesy, just leave him there. 100 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 6: He's having a seizure, okay. 101 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 4: Another guard grabs Jose's arms, pulls them behind his back, 102 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 4: and puts handcuffs on them. That's when the shield is removed. 103 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: The medical staff takes his pulse. Meanwhile, someone gives an 104 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 3: order to take the handcuffs off. 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, the tuffs up. One of the guards seems to 106 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 4: be having a hard time finding the right key and 107 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 4: then fitting the key in the handcuffs. He's struggling to 108 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 4: get them off of Jose. 109 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: Because it's taking him so long. 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 2: Another guard tries to help him get the handcuffs off. 111 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 2: Almost one minute goes by before the handcuffs are removed 112 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 2: fairly out during the earth. 113 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 4: To give you an idea of how much time a 114 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 4: minute is, that was just twelve seconds of it. 115 00:06:52,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: Right after the handcuffs are removed, the video stops. We've 116 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 3: been reporting on this case for so long. We've met 117 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: Rose's family, and we felt like we knew a lot 118 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: about him, and yet this is the first time that 119 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: we have ever seen him. 120 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: The footage is haunting, and yes it leaves us with 121 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: some answers, but with even more questions. 122 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 4: It's possible that they're doing everything by the book, but 123 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 4: there's no way around it. Is that looking at it, 124 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 4: you know, looking at them, like spend forty five seconds 125 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 4: fiddle with keys on handcuffing him while a man is 126 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 4: dying is super hard to watch. 127 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: You know, we know what happens, We know he dies. 128 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: So we just watched the last two minutes and fifty 129 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: three seconds of somebody being alive. 130 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 7: It's a lot. 131 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: And knowing what we know now the people in that 132 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: room didn't know, but we know that what we're watching 133 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 2: is somebody who put a sock down his mouth so 134 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: far down his throat we can't even see it. 135 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: Then the question now for me is what would have 136 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 3: driven him to do this, what would have made him 137 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 3: feel so helpless? 138 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 4: And now we also have to figure out what to 139 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 4: do with what we know. 140 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: We've watched something that his family hasn't. 141 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: We know something that other people don't, that only a 142 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: handful of people who were in the room. They're really 143 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: the only people who have seen this who know what 144 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: it looked like exactly at that moment. So there's this 145 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: weird feeling of knowing that we got to see that. 146 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like we should show it to 147 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 4: a doctor or something. 148 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: I'm very worried about the family because the way Jose 149 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 3: de Jessu's dies is pretty terrible. So I'm thinking a 150 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: lot about our responsibility to share this with them and 151 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 3: all the details that we found, and just how horrible 152 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 3: that's going to be. Jose's parents, Silberio and Elisa, and 153 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 3: his brother Gabrielle had told us that no matter how 154 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: difficult it was, whatever we uncovered, they wanted to know. 155 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 3: And so we picked up the phone and called gabriel 156 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 3: in Las Vegas. 157 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: We tell him that we have some sensitive information about 158 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: his brother's death, and we ask him if you would 159 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: like to see it. 160 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: He says yes, and so we're off to Las Vegas 161 00:09:34,440 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: once again. Yes, welcome back to this special edition of 162 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: Latino USA The Strange Death of Jose the Hissus. I'm Marie, 163 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 3: you know Josa, with producers Fernanda Chavarri and Marlon Bishop. 164 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 4: When we left off, we had just called Jose Dejsus's brother, 165 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 4: gabrielle and told him about the videos we have that 166 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 4: would give him more information about the last moments of 167 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 4: Jose's life. 168 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 2: Gabriel said that no matter how painful it might be, 169 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: he wanted to see the videos, so we went to 170 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: his home in Las Vegas to show him. 171 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so we just landed in Las Vegas and we 172 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: took a cab. 173 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: The first time that we came here was almost a 174 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 3: year ago. On both occasions we visited this family here 175 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: in Las Vegas in a very sad situation. When we 176 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: get to Gabriel's house, we see his sister Rosario and 177 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: their parents, Silberio and Elissa, who are visiting from Mexico. 178 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: Gabriel says the four of them talked it over and 179 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: decided that they would all sit together and watch these 180 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: videos as a family. 181 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 4: We start with the first video. The four hours of 182 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 4: surveillance footage. That's when the family sees that Jose was 183 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: alone with the door locked, and that nobody went in 184 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 4: for those hours before his death, putting to rest any 185 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 4: doubt about whether or not somebody had heard Jose. 186 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: Still, seeing all of this for the first time is 187 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 3: upsetting for them. 188 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:55,319 Speaker 2: Cuma, halt A, mans and Borgolo and he looks if he. 189 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 3: Was already not well, then why did they lock him 190 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 3: up alone? Rosario asks, mm hmm. 191 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 4: This is where they go to take him out for 192 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 4: a shower. 193 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: And when we get to the part of the surveillance 194 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: video that shows Jose being escorted out of his cell 195 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: and taken to the showers, his family goes quiet. This 196 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: is the only time Jose can be seen alive and 197 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: walking around in the video, so they ask us to 198 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: rewind that grainy tape and play that footage again. 199 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 4: We fast forward and get to the part in the 200 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 4: video three hours later when the guard first notices that 201 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 4: Jose is not moving. 202 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: Gabriel watches the timestamp on that surveillance footage and he 203 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: gets visibly more and more upset as the minutes go 204 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: by and nobody enters his brother's cell. 205 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 8: How come to this security guard. He's been like two 206 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 8: minutes and he's still talking to a body, let's say 207 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 8: like that, because he's not doing nothing about it. 208 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: He asks us again to tell him what time it 209 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: was when the guards noticed Hose was unresponsive, and that's 210 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 3: when he realized that it's almost exactly the same time 211 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: that he had tried to call and check up on 212 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 3: his brother. 213 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 8: And they tell me that it was it wasn't going 214 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 8: to be possible for them to communicate with my brother. 215 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 8: I was, okay, I'll come back tomorrow. And then I 216 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 8: went to the restaurant, we ordered, we eat, and after 217 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 8: I take some pictures and I can see the date 218 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 8: and the time of picture. 219 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: So you you were calling to speak to your brother 220 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 3: at about five. 221 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 6: O'clock between five and six. 222 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 3: On the day that he died. Yes, And all they 223 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: said to you was he was unavailable. 224 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 8: Yes, that's what they told me. It wasn't going to 225 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 8: be bossible, and I was, I was, okay, I call 226 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 8: back tomorrow. But I never thought about this was going on. 227 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: We finished with the surveillance footage and ask the family 228 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: once again if they're sure that they want to watch 229 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 2: the video from inside joseself done. No, no, the Nemosque local, but. 230 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 3: His father says that no matter how tough it is, 231 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 3: they have to watch so they can see what happened, 232 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: and so we press play. 233 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: Up until this point, the family didn't know much about 234 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: what happened to Jose other than what was in the 235 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 2: autopsy report. They had no idea that Jose was alive. 236 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: When the guards enter his cell, Rosadio tries to look 237 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: away when she sees her brother choking and being handkuffed. 238 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: At one point, Gabriel asked his family if they wanted 239 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: to keep watching, and they all said yes. As they watched, 240 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 3: they kept asking why isn't anyone helping him? 241 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 8: If the video is showing that, if he did, if 242 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 8: he did commit suicide, what lends my brother to do that? 243 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 3: For Gabriel, that question why is bigger than just Jose? 244 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 8: And this can happen to another family today tomorrow, We 245 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 8: don't know. They don't think like if they're helping family member, 246 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 8: you know it's a person, no matter what, it's a person. 247 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: We say goodbye to the family in Las Vegas and 248 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: head back to New York. 249 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 4: There we reach out to a medical professional who might 250 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 4: be able to answer Gabrielle's questions about the quality of 251 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: Hosea's medical care. Deloi. 252 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 6: My name is doctor Allan Keller. 253 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: Doctor Keller directs a program at New York University on 254 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: the intersection of healthcare. 255 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: And human rights. 256 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 4: In the late nineties, he led a groundbreaking study of 257 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: healthcare and detention. 258 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 6: One of the things we found is that immigration detention 259 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 6: is harmful to the health and well being of those detained, 260 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 6: particularly psychologically and emotionally. They are held in prison like 261 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 6: conditions monitored by guards who come from a correctional mindset. 262 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 4: Keller found in his study that in the places where 263 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 4: immigrants were detained, medical services were really set up for 264 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 4: people who were going to be there for a very 265 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 4: short period of time. 266 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 6: There was virtually no mental health services. 267 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: His study also found that many detainees often would not 268 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: report that they were depressed or suicidal. 269 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 6: Because they knew it was a one way ticket to 270 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 6: segregation what many places is referred to as the whole. 271 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 4: Doctor Keller says that since then, ICE has created detention 272 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 4: standards that have led to improvements, but not nearly enough. 273 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 6: So I watched the video several times. 274 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: The first time we asked doctor Keller to watch the 275 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 3: video of Hose's death with us and tell us what 276 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 3: he saw from a medical perspective. 277 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: Let me go ahead and pursplay. 278 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 6: Okay, So the first thing they do is handcuff him. 279 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 6: What I noticed is missing is that they're not looking 280 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 6: in his mouth. Yeah, like standard well, you know look 281 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 6: in cardiopulmonary resuscitation and you know basic life support when 282 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,360 Speaker 6: you're taught the ABC's A stands for airway, B stands 283 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 6: for breathing. C stands for circulation. So the first thing 284 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 6: you do, we're supposed to do is to check if 285 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 6: they have a patent airway. 286 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 4: That means is the airway open? Can the person breathe? 287 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 6: And the way you do that is you look in 288 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 6: someone's mouth. I see he's feeling for a pulse, assessing circulation. 289 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: That's the hand on the neck, right, Yeah. 290 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 6: So that's the C. But they skip the A and 291 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 6: the B. 292 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 3: Which means they didn't check his airway or his breathing. 293 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 6: The first thing going through their head was not a 294 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 6: for airway, It was s for safety. And that's in 295 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 6: many ways understandable. But again, between the handcuffing and then 296 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 6: uncuffing him, that's precious time. The clock the clock of 297 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 6: life is ticking. 298 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: And doctor Keller says, if the staff really did think 299 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 2: that Jose was having a seizure, that would explain why 300 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: they might not have wanted to open his mouth. But 301 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: from what he can see in the video, it didn't 302 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: look like a seizure. 303 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 6: It does raise a question to me about what training 304 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 6: in advanced life support the individuals who showed up had. 305 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 6: But you know, as I mentioned, the ABC's are something 306 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 6: that you know every lifeguard is taught. 307 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 3: There are over fifteen hundred people held at ELOI, yet 308 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: there is no medical doctor or psychologist on site twenty 309 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 3: four to seven. According to the police report, the medical 310 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 3: staff that responded in this case was two nurses and 311 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 3: a physician's assistant. 312 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 4: Doctor Keller says, even though isolation can make symptoms worse, 313 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 4: it's the right thing to do when somebody is in 314 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 4: immediate danger. 315 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 3: After looking at the available facts of Hose's case, doctor 316 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: Keller's overall feeling is that Hose's death could have been prevented, 317 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 3: and for him, this case goes beyond emergency care. 318 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 6: Who was this man? This was a man who who 319 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 6: may have had a very serious illness depression, but he 320 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 6: was also a man who had a family that he 321 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 6: missed terribly. He was also a man that had lived 322 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 6: in this country for some time and had not been 323 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 6: here legally, and that's a problem. But he had not 324 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 6: been a danger to our country. Why was this individual 325 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 6: in immigration detention in the first place? And did he 326 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 6: need to be? And a haunting question that I think 327 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 6: we all need to live with. 328 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: The question raised by doctor Keller in a lot of 329 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 2: ways is central to the investigation of Jose's death. Whether 330 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: a man in extreme psychological distress who turned himself over 331 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 2: to border patrols seeking protection, should that man have been 332 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: taken to a detention center in the first place. 333 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 4: Not long after we spoke with doctor Keller, something happened 334 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 4: that gave us some more perspective on that question. 335 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 2: Something big was a document that ICE just posted on 336 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: their website with reports of different deaths that have happened 337 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 2: in immigration custody, including the one of Jose de Jissu's. 338 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 3: We weren't expecting it, but shortly before we went to 339 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 3: air with our series, ICE released an internal investigation into 340 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: Jose's death by its own Office of Detention Oversight. Investigators 341 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 3: went to Eloy about a month after Jose died, but 342 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: the report wasn't made public until over a year later. 343 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: From the moment Jose Deksus died, this is a document 344 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 2: we've been waiting for. 345 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot. 346 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 2: The report fills in many of the missing pieces of 347 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 2: the puzzle, starting with what happened at the border checkpoint. 348 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 2: Border Patrol agents who were interviewed for this report said 349 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 2: Jose was hysterical when he ran up to them. 350 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 4: Twice, jumping from a concrete bench in a Border Patrol 351 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 4: holdroom and landing on his head. 352 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 2: Jose told agents that he was trying to break his 353 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: own neck so he could die before somebody else could 354 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: kill him. Remember, in the autopsy, the medical examiner found 355 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 2: mysterious head injuries. This could explain. 356 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 3: Those Border Patrol took Jose to Banner University Medical Center 357 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 3: in Tucson, a hospital a few hours north, and according 358 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 3: to the report, Jose was treated for his head injuries 359 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 3: and given a neck brace, but hospital staff said he 360 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: couldn't be seen by a psychiatrist because he was in 361 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 3: the custody of the Border Patrol. 362 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 2: We reached out to hospital reps and they said that 363 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: every patient at Banner receives emergency medical care regardless of citizenship, 364 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 2: but they said because of privacy laws, they couldn't comment 365 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: on this case. 366 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 4: So Jose left the hospital without seeing a psychologist just 367 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 4: one day after his suicide attempt and was taken to 368 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 4: the Eloid Detention Center. 369 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: There were no medical or mental health records from the 370 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 2: hospital for Jose when he arrived there, even though he 371 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: showed up wearing the neck brace. 372 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: The Border patrol agents who dropped Hose off at ELOI 373 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 3: told the staff there that he had been suicidal, but 374 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 3: the Eloi staff didn't flag Jose for special treatment. 375 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: So at this point there were three instances where people 376 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: knew Jose had tried to kill himself, yet when he 377 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: enters ELOY, he's put with the general population on the 378 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: first day. 379 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 4: Here's text from the internal investigation. 380 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: He said that it was the first time that he 381 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: felt desperate enough to kill himself, and that he felt 382 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 2: safer since arriving at the Eloid Detention Center and he 383 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 2: no longer wanted to kill. 384 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 4: Himself routine rather than urgent. Is how the health referral 385 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 4: was classified. 386 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: That's a little surprising to me. 387 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 5: Yeah. 388 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 3: The report also helps explain something that other detainees had 389 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 3: told us that they had heard Hose screaming for help. 390 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 3: The report says there were multiple use of force incidents 391 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 3: by guards during the course of Hosse's second day at Eloi. 392 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: When he tried to run away from them. 393 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 4: They decided they need to take the nisagoon to the 394 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 4: ground in order to gain control over him. To describe 395 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 4: the nisagun as completely uncompliant, incoperative, and aggressive. During this incident, the. 396 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 3: Report says, at times, Jose was screaming, help me, call 397 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: my lawyer, and this is brutality. 398 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 2: Jose was later seen by a psychologist inside the detention center, 399 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: who diagnosed him with a brief reactive psychosis, something the 400 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: psychologist said could happen in response to trauma or major 401 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: stress and could cause hallucinations, delusions, and confusion. 402 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 3: The doctor ordered a nurse to give Hoose two antipsychotic medications, 403 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: even if they needed to be given to him involuntarily. 404 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 4: But the nurse didn't think Jose needed them because he 405 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: had calmed down, and in the end she never gave 406 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 4: them to him. 407 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: The next day, on the day Jose died, the psychologist 408 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: checked up on him, unaware that the nurse hadn't given 409 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: Jose the meds he was prescribed, and Jose's behavior appeared 410 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 2: to have completely changed by then. 411 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 4: So this is a statement that is used to take 412 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 4: him off suicide watch and put him on fifteen minute watch. 413 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: Thirty one year old English speaking male from Mexico presents 414 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: today with a clear sensorium, embarrassed about the events of yesterday, 415 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: states that his mind suddenly started making connections between voices, 416 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: people's sounds, and perceptions that convinced him that he was 417 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: going to die. 418 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 4: Here no explanation for why he started thinking that way. 419 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 2: He's completely agreeable to ongoing mental health services is indicated 420 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: and requests classes or groups on personal growth. 421 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 3: This is the point when Jose's level of supervision was downgraded. 422 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: Nine hours later, Jose ended his life. 423 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 4: Getting the documents from this internal investigation finally helped explain 424 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 4: so many things that we had been wondering about over 425 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 4: the year we'd been investigating this case. For example, why 426 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 4: the guards waited for the shield before they entered hose Sell, 427 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 4: what the delusional behavior was that led the detention center 428 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 4: to put him on suicide watch, and why he was 429 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 4: heard screaming for help. 430 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: The report also highlights a number of deficiencies in the 431 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: investigator's own words, and how the detention center handled the incident. 432 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: Here are the big ones. 433 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 3: For one, they found that the doctor didn't follow procedure 434 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: when taking Jose off of suicide watch because he didn't 435 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 3: fill out a thorough mental health evaluation or to check 436 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 3: to see if the nurse ever gave him the anti 437 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: psychotic drugs that he was proscribed. 438 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 2: Also, the guards may have needed backup when entering Jose cell, 439 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: but the report determined that waiting seven minutes for the 440 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: protective shield before helping him was too long, especially because 441 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: at one point there were more than four guards waiting 442 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 2: at the door. 443 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 4: And another thing from the report, the investigators found that 444 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 4: Eloy had no mental health providers on call after hours, 445 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 4: a major breach of ICE healthcare standards. 446 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: So, after reading all of these recommendations, we wanted to 447 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 2: hear directly from ICE. It took a month of back 448 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 2: and forth before we were finally granted an interview. We 449 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 2: spoke with Liz Cidy Yopereta, she's the senior advisor to 450 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: the agency's director. 451 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 3: In one of these reports made public regarding the suicide 452 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 3: of Jose de Jesus Denisagun, there was criticism raised as 453 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 3: to how the medical staff acted and pointed out several 454 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 3: failings on the part of CCA. What is your response 455 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: to those criticisms? 456 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 9: While not going into any specific scenarios, we are constantly 457 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 9: reviewing our practices as well as the vendors that we 458 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 9: use the practices that they use. We are all adhering 459 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 9: to a set of standards, and if those standards are 460 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 9: not being med then we would take quick action to 461 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 9: adhere to those standards. 462 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: But according to the ACLU, the standards that the EPI 463 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 3: eight I is talking about are not legally binding under 464 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: US law and therefore difficult to enforce. 465 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 2: We also requested an interview with the Corrections Corporation of 466 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: America or CCA, the private prison company that runs Eloy. 467 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 2: CCA declined the interview request, but said that they would 468 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 2: respond to some questions in writing, so we sent those 469 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 2: questions but got no response. 470 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 3: The conclusion of the ICE internal investigation points out the 471 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 3: lack of a proper suicide prevention plan at Eloy, despite 472 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 3: the fact that Hose's suicide was the third since twenty 473 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 3: thirteen and the fifth since two thousand and five, making 474 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 3: it by far the facility with the most immigrant suicides 475 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 3: in the country. 476 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: The report ends with a note that Eloy should develop 477 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 2: such a plan. 478 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 4: We wanted to know, though, will this report, however harsh, 479 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 4: lead to any changes. Will there be any consequences for 480 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 4: Cca or for ELOI. In a follow up email after 481 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 4: our interview, we asked Ice whether the report has any 482 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 4: teeth to affect changes. Ice didn't give a specific answer 483 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 4: to that question, but sent a written statement saying that 484 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 4: the release of these reports quote reflects ICE's continuing resolve 485 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 4: to improve conditions of confinement. 486 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 3: Coming up on Latino USA, the collateral damage of immigration detention. 487 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 5: Oh no, I just think we need to make a 488 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 5: difference before other people start killing themselves or other people 489 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 5: get killed. 490 00:28:51,800 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: That's coming up next on Latin USA. Welcome back to 491 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: Latino USA and Part two of the Strange Death of 492 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 3: Jose Dejus. I'm Marie Josa with producers Fernande Chari and 493 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: Marlon Bishop. One evening, while we were in Phoenix during 494 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 3: our reporting on Jose de Jesus's death, we visited a 495 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 3: detention support group. 496 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 9: Meeting Temo Diferentes. 497 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 4: The meeting was at Pointe punte Is, the immigrant activist 498 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 4: group that first tipped us off to Jose's story, and 499 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 4: many of the people here at this meeting have family 500 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 4: members in detention or have been in detention themselves. They 501 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 4: gather here every week to support each other, to organize campaigns, 502 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 4: and to figure out how to get their loved ones 503 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 4: back home. 504 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 3: We came here because we wanted to get a wider 505 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 3: view of what it's like to go through immigration to tension, 506 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: and the same complaint kept coming up with all of 507 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: the people that we spoke with. 508 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 6: A La Selda Lastine biem free as being. 509 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 4: Free as Jose Mahia says, they kept the cells freezing 510 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 4: cold at ELOI. Others talked about being disrespected by guards 511 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 4: or about the bad food, But the most persistent complaint 512 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 4: was about medical care. 513 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 10: Okay, you Metio Requezo request, but okay. 514 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 4: He says that to see a doctor inside Eloy you 515 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 4: have to put in a request first. He maintains it 516 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 4: could take days for the request to arrive, and then 517 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 4: a few more days before you would actually get to 518 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 4: see a doctor. 519 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: He says, more often than not, after all that medical 520 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 2: staff would just tell patients to drink water and send 521 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: them on their way. That's something that immigrant rights activists 522 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: in other parts of the country have also complained about. 523 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 3: For years it look at sympatheesia and detention isn't just 524 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: hard on the people being detained, Its effects ripple out 525 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 3: to a whole web of other people. Take Jose he 526 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 3: has daughter Alejandra, for example. 527 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 5: It really hurts when you see your own father go 528 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 5: through them. 529 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 3: Her dad was inside ELOI for nine or ten months. 530 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: Alejandra was in high school at the time. 531 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 5: It was also during like Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's and 532 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 5: my Birthday, like all those events. I had to like 533 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 5: go through them without him, So it was like really 534 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 5: no nothing to celebrate, and would we wouldn't celebrate because 535 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 5: it just wasn't the same. 536 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: For Alejandra, like for many of the immigrants here. 537 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: At the point the meeting the dead of Jose Dejssou's 538 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: hit close to home. 539 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 5: I saw the picture of him on the internet, like 540 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 5: I was curious. I want to know how he looked like, 541 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 5: and he must have been really depressed to do that. 542 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 5: I like give things to God that my dad didn't 543 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 5: have to go through that. 544 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 3: And even though her own father is out, she thinks 545 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: about those still inside. 546 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. 547 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 5: I just think we need to make a difference before 548 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 5: other people start killing themselves or other people get killed. 549 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 3: Earlier in the show, doctor Alan Keller posed a question, 550 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 3: was Jose Dejsus a man that needed to be detained? 551 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: And that's the big question. It's a medical question, it's 552 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: a political question, and it's an ethical question. 553 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 4: And it goes beyond Jose's case. If the country is 554 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 4: detaining people at tax expense just to eventually deport them 555 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 4: or to let them go while they're waiting to get 556 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 4: their legal status resolved, well what's the point. 557 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 3: Someone who thinks a lot about the ethics of detention 558 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 3: is Grace Meng. She's a senior researcher at Human Rights Watch, 559 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 3: and her organization recently put out a report about lapses 560 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 3: in medical care that led to deaths in immigration detention centers. 561 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 3: That report included the death of Jose Dejsu's. 562 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 11: Detention of a migrant should be a matter of last resort, 563 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 11: should be an exception, not the role. 564 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: She challenges the notion that someone like Jose should have 565 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: been put in detention at. 566 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 11: All, the thought that someone who is expressing fear of 567 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 11: being killed in his home country, that we would put 568 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 11: that person in a jail like setting is the first 569 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 11: sort of assumption that I would really question. Any psychological 570 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 11: or mental health problems would likely be increased in a 571 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 11: jail like setting. 572 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 3: If the people who had who were with Jose Dejsus 573 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 3: had actually wanted another alternative as opposed to taking him 574 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 3: to Eloy and put him in detention, what would those alternatives, 575 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 3: what do they exist? What would they have been? 576 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 11: If you find someone who has some serious medical need, 577 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 11: whether it's mental health or physical health, they should be 578 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 11: in a hospital. They should not be just left willing 579 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 11: nilly on the street or an intention center. And I 580 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 11: think it's possible to say that in the Nisaguin's case, 581 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 11: he should have been in a hospital and been given 582 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 11: close monitoring and treatment. 583 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 3: Instead, he was taken to Eloy, And. 584 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 11: I think definitely his case, especially because it happened after 585 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 11: other suicide at the same facility, raise the serious questions 586 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 11: about how seriously this facility is taking suicide prevention. 587 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,720 Speaker 2: In addition to the five suicides at the Eloid Detention 588 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 2: Center since two thousand and five, there were fifty three 589 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 2: people placed on suicide watch there in twenty thirteen alone, 590 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: according to the most recent available reports from ICE. 591 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 3: But Liz Sidio Bedeta, the high ranking ICE official we 592 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 3: spoke to, believe suicide is generally not a big problem 593 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 3: in the ICE detention system nationwide. 594 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 9: We looked it up and out of more than three 595 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 9: hundred thousand people who brought into our facilities last year, 596 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 9: one individual took their life, and of course that's unfortunate. 597 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 9: We think that one is too many. But this does 598 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 9: tell us that our protocols to prevent these types of 599 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 9: scenarios are being effective, largely speaking. 600 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 2: But stories like that of Jose put the whole detention 601 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: immigration system and its purpose under scrutiny. For years, immigrant 602 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 2: rights activists have criticized the use of detention as a deterrent, 603 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 2: saying that keeping people without criminal records in prison like 604 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 2: facilities and using that to send a message of don't 605 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 2: come here illegally is a violation of their human rights. 606 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 10: Illegal migration into this country has dropped considerably since. 607 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 4: In twenty fourteen, Jay Johnson, the Secretary of Homeland Security, 608 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 4: said quote, we want to send a message that our 609 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 4: border is not open to illegal migration, and if you 610 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 4: come here, you should not expect to simply be released. 611 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 10: But we're certain that it is also doing very large 612 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 10: measures to the deterrent factor of our border security efforts. 613 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 3: However, when we asked Liz idiopa Ata, the senior ICE official, 614 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,760 Speaker 3: if detention was used as a deterrent to illegal immigration, 615 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 3: she said it wasn't so black and white. 616 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 9: It's not something that we're looking as a way to 617 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 9: provide a punitive measure to individuals who are who are 618 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 9: crossing our borders. But we are charged with the enforcement 619 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,959 Speaker 9: of immigration laws. Part of that charge is to ensure 620 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 9: that individuals are not with the misunderstanding that our borders 621 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 9: are open for free crossings. 622 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 4: But Grace May of Human Rights Watch questions the strategy 623 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 4: of detaining so many people Immigration detentionion. 624 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 11: Is allowed in exceptional circumstances under international law, but in 625 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 11: the US is just a regular practice. It happens frequently 626 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 11: to sound seekers, to mothers with children, to people who 627 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 11: are long term permanent residents in the US who've lived 628 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 11: here for decades. There for many of them, there's no 629 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 11: individualized assessment of whether they are a flight risk, whether 630 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 11: they are direct to public safety. And I don't think 631 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 11: that a system that deprives people of their liberty in 632 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 11: any sort of automatic way is one that is fair 633 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 11: or humane, and so I certainly would support an effort 634 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 11: to severely significantly reduce the immigration defensive system in the US. 635 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 3: According to a report by the Migration Policy Institute, the 636 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 3: US spends more money on immigration enforcement and detention than 637 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 3: on all other federal law enforcement agencies combined. That includes 638 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 3: the FBI, the DEA, the Secret Service, and so on. 639 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 3: So Grace Men wants to know why. 640 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 11: Is it focused on counter terrorism because certainly the fast, fast, 641 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 11: fastard of people being stopped at the border have no 642 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 11: one would say that they are in any way connected 643 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 11: to terrorism. Is it because there's some severe damage happening 644 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 11: to the US. There's no evidence that immigrants commit crimes 645 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 11: at higher rates the Native four Naturally, there's evidence that 646 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 11: they commit crime at a lower rates the Native Americans. 647 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 11: I think on this issue of immigration enforcement, there has 648 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 11: not been a really robust, smart conversation on what are 649 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 11: we spending to the benefits outweigh the costs. Instead, we've 650 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 11: just decided to spend and spend and spend. 651 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,440 Speaker 12: We have walked two point five miles. 652 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's gonna be a while. 653 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 12: That's it. 654 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 3: On the one year anniversary of hose jisus's death, immigrant 655 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 3: activists march to the Eloyd Detention Center to hold a 656 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 3: vigil in his honor. 657 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 12: We're out here today in Eloi, Arizona. 658 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 3: That's Franciska Borchez, the organizing director at BUNTE where we 659 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 3: attended the detention support group. 660 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 12: And we're walking. There's about fifty of us that are 661 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 12: making a four mile walk to mark the one year 662 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 12: anniversary of Hoste Dejesu Saloon Denisa's death, and also to 663 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 12: mark the one hundred and fifty one lives that have 664 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 12: been lost throughout detention centers in the country without anyone 665 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 12: really knowing their names, the circumstances, their stories. It's going 666 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 12: to be mostly ceremonial. We hope to eat, to break 667 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 12: bread together, to play music as honoring hosts, the hassous, 668 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 12: and a lot of the people that have passed away. 669 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,359 Speaker 12: If the wind is nice to us, will have lit candles. 670 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 4: In a hundred degree heat, the activists made their way 671 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 4: through the tiny desert town of Eloi and stopped right 672 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 4: outside the fence surrounding the detention center. 673 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 3: Some of the people in the crowd were former detainees themselves. 674 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 3: They gave short speeches, hoping that detainees inside might hear them? 675 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,800 Speaker 3: Do you see the propequidos. 676 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 2: They're happy to see us here, says a man named 677 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 2: Juaniel Cornejo. They feel protected the way I felt when 678 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 2: I was inside there and saw you all out here 679 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 2: supporting us. 680 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 4: Another man read a poem written from the imagined perspective 681 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 4: of Jose Dejsus. What it lacked in biographical accuracy, it 682 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 4: made up for in raw emotion. 683 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 3: I loved life, he says, I loved my children. I 684 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 3: wanted to return home to Mexico one day, a success 685 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 3: story like so many I had heard, and I did return, 686 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 3: but I returned feet first. 687 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: The organizers had hoped to get some attention with their vigil, 688 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 2: but almost no media showed up. Telemundo was there but 689 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 2: left early. Yet Francisca was still hopeful they were making 690 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 2: an impact. 691 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 12: We hope that this is a case that we can 692 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 12: bring to light, that we can profile it nationally, that 693 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 12: everybody will know was his name, and that there'll be 694 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 12: some serious policy changes and ways in which you know, 695 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 12: our people, amigrant people are treated in this country. 696 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 4: And then the activists read out the names of the dead, 697 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 4: over one hundred and fifty of them. The names hung 698 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 4: in the scorching air for a second each, and then 699 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 4: one by one were carried off into the desert by 700 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 4: the Arizona wind. 701 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 3: It's not a year before when we first heard Jose 702 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 3: Who's his name? We had no idea where our search 703 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 3: for answers would take us. At first, all we knew 704 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 3: was that name and that he died in a detention 705 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 3: center with an orange sock in his throat. 706 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 4: Over time, we met his family in Las Vegas and 707 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 4: then in Mexico, and the details began to fill themselves in. 708 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 4: We requested documents and videos, and slowly but surely, the 709 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,800 Speaker 4: truth of what happened to him came ever more into focus. 710 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 2: As we discovered those truths, we share them with Jose's family, 711 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 2: and now it was time to do that again. 712 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 3: Hello all, La Gabriel is Mari. 713 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 4: We called the. 714 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 3: Josees brother Gabriel in Las Vegas. It had been about 715 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 3: a month since we last saw him, and he hadn't 716 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 3: heard about the new documents that ICE had released, so 717 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,319 Speaker 3: we filled him. 718 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 2: In no Sentra mosque well at Basso juand Diegosta de 719 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: la Patria Fronterrisa. We told him about his brother's suicide 720 00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 2: attempt at the border, and the psychosis at the detention center, 721 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 2: about running away and being tackled repeatedly by guards, and 722 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 2: about not getting the medication he was prescribed. 723 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 3: But on me in Vida Catillo, after we tell. 724 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 2: Him this, Gabrielle says that, Yeah, maybe something happened that 725 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 2: made his brother paranoid and suicidal, and that maybe he 726 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 2: got worse because he was locked up without communication and 727 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 2: didn't have anybody to tell him that everything would be okay. 728 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 3: This situation could have been avoided, Gabrielle says, and it 729 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 3: can still be avoided for other people. 730 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 2: And in the end, he says, it gives the family 731 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: some peace to know what really happened and to resign 732 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,280 Speaker 2: themselves to the truth that Jose was suffering from mental 733 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: health issues at ELOI and that he died by suicide. 734 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,439 Speaker 3: It's time to move forward in our lives, Gabrielle says. 735 00:43:45,920 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 3: There's nothing we can do to bring him back. Could 736 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 3: Jose de Hishusa's story have ended another way? There are 737 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 3: so many what ifs. 738 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 2: What if he hadn't gone off his medication, What if 739 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 2: he had been allowed to see a psychiatrist in the 740 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 2: hospital before he was taken to the detention center. What 741 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 2: if he had been able to speak with his family 742 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,239 Speaker 2: when he was so desperate to call them. 743 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 4: What if the guard had opened the door seven minutes sooner. 744 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 4: What if they had found the sock and had been 745 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 4: able to pull it out. 746 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 2: As for Jose's three young children, they still don't know 747 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,359 Speaker 2: that their father is dead. Their grandma, Lisa, has been 748 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,439 Speaker 2: fending off questions from the oldest, who's now eight years old. 749 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 2: He wants to know why the FaceTime calls with Papa 750 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 2: and Mexico have suddenly stopped. According to her, the kid's 751 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 2: mother has made the choice not to tell them. 752 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 3: Josse is resting now in Mexico in a beautiful grave 753 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,600 Speaker 3: built by his family, in a little cemetery near the 754 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 3: Pacific Ocean, close to a place he once called home, 755 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 3: and so very far a whole border away from the 756 00:45:35,040 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 3: place he wanted home to be. This episode originally aired 757 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 3: in July of twenty sixteen and was produced by Marlon 758 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 3: Bishop and Fernanda Chavari, who nowadays is an immigration reporter 759 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 3: for Mother Jones magazine. The strange death of Jose de 760 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 3: Jesus received the Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award. This investigation 761 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 3: was reported with assistants from the Marshall Project, a nonprofit 762 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 3: news organization covering criminal justice. Our deepest thanks to the 763 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 3: Denise de Saun family and an update Silverio. Denis Josevejesus's 764 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 3: father passed away this year. We are sending our deepest 765 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 3: condolences to the family. The Latino USA team includes Miel Massias, 766 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 3: Sofia Parisaka, Reese Trees, Janie Jamoca, Julieta Martinelli, Girimontalbo, Alises 767 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 3: Carse and Alejandra Sarasad, with help from raul Perees. Our 768 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 3: engineers are Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso, and Leah Shaw. Our 769 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:58,240 Speaker 3: director of programming and Operations is Natalia Pidrehoutz. Our digital 770 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 3: editor is Amandel Cantra. Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite 771 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,320 Speaker 3: fellow is Julia Rocha. Our interns are Sophia Sanchez and 772 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 3: Marie Mendosa. Our theme music was composed by sangerro Reinos. 773 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 3: If you like the music you heard on this episode, 774 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 3: stop by Lettinousa dot org and check out our weekly 775 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 3: Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Marie Jossa 776 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 3: join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime, 777 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 3: look for us on all of your social media. Astella 778 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 3: Prosima Ceo. 779 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 7: Latino Usa is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 780 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 7: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, 781 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 7: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the 782 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 7: Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at 783 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 7: hsfoundation dot org.