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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. We are now joined

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Speaker 1: by the firm's chief legal officer, Paul Greywall. And you know, Paul,

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Speaker 1: we really do have a sense here of the new

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Speaker 1: strategy by former President Trump into his presidential candidacy here

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Speaker 1: or the bid he's putting in, But we don't know

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Speaker 1: much about the Harris campaign. But you have been, from

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Speaker 1: what I understand, more in touch with that side of

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Speaker 1: the election here.

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Speaker 2: What do they say, Well, good morning. We've been in

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Speaker 2: touch with both sides, both the Trump campaign and the

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Speaker 2: Harris campaign, as they develop their crypto policies and begin

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Speaker 2: engaging with the crypto voter. And I will say that,

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Speaker 2: certainly the Trump campaign has been more explicit in embracing specific,

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Speaker 2: concrete proposals for crypto and digital assets more generally. But

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Speaker 2: we've been encouraged that even as the current administration and

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Speaker 2: under Gary Gensler, continues with its campaign of regulation by enforcement,

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Speaker 2: the Harris campaign, which of course stands separate from the administration,

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Speaker 2: has reached out, has expressed an interest and has begun

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Speaker 2: discussions about what a new approach to crypto and digital

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Speaker 2: assets could look like.

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Speaker 1: That's fascinating, and what does it mean for the people

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Speaker 1: she might have at the top. You mentioned Gary Gensler here,

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Speaker 1: but under a potential future Kamala Harris presidency, you might

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Speaker 1: have different leaders when it comes to regulation. What did

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Speaker 1: she say?

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Speaker 2: We almost certainly will have a different leaders emerged, And

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Speaker 2: of course a top of mind for any of us

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Speaker 2: in the crypto industry is the SEC. But there are

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Speaker 2: a number of agencies in the federal government which will

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Speaker 2: play an important role in the development and evolution of

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Speaker 2: this industry. What we're hearing is that there still remains,

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Speaker 2: i think, an open mind to a new approach to crypto.

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Speaker 2: We think the most important new approach is embodied in

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Speaker 2: legislation which has passed the House. That's, of course, the

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Speaker 2: FIT twenty one Bill, which provides for market structure for

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Speaker 2: crypto and important investor and consumer protections. And that legislation

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Speaker 2: is now being considered by the Senate. And so we expect,

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Speaker 2: even as the presidential campaign roars ahead, we're going to

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Speaker 2: see progress in the fall on that legislation and hopefully

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Speaker 2: and embraced by both parties of the structure and certainty

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Speaker 2: it would provide.

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Speaker 1: Paul.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about Congress a little bit too, I know

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Speaker 3: coinbase has been funding fairshake the pack, which is really

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Speaker 3: laser focused on House and Senate races rather than the

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Speaker 3: presidential race. Should the industry get a very pro crypto

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Speaker 3: Congress in twenty twenty five? Is that legislation that passed

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Speaker 3: the House still sort of you know what you would

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Speaker 3: like to see pasted or is there room for a

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Speaker 3: whole new bill that's perhaps even a little bit more

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Speaker 3: friendly to the industry. Should you get that congressional outcome

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Speaker 3: that you're looking for.

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Speaker 2: Well, no legislation is perfect, and FIT twenty one is

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Speaker 2: no exception to that. But it's a strong bill which

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Speaker 2: includes the most critical protections from our constructure, and I

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Speaker 2: think there's no question about it. We are going to

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Speaker 2: see a pro crypto Congress emerged, regardless of the particular

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Speaker 2: outcome in individual races, and of course the outcome in

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Speaker 2: the presidential race. We've seen evidence of this. Seventy one

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Speaker 2: Democrats joined with almost every Republican in the House in

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Speaker 2: supporting FIT twenty one, and we're now seeing Democrats in

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Speaker 2: the Senate, whether it's Senator jillibrand whether it's others on

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Speaker 2: the Senate Banking Committee, express a real interest in moving

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Speaker 2: forward to that legislation, Senator Stabnow, of course in the

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Speaker 2: Agricultural Committee, we're just pleased to see now members of

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Speaker 2: both houses and on both sides of the aisle understand

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Speaker 2: that fifty million Americans or more who have bought or

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Speaker 2: sold a digital asset are expecting the Congress to do

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Speaker 2: its job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Paul, I think one of the fascinating things about

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Speaker 3: crypto when you think of crypto and regulation is the

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Speaker 3: innovation in crypto is often sort of one or two

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Speaker 3: steps ahead of the regulators what they're thinking about. So

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Speaker 3: I'm curious how you think about that when you think

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Speaker 3: of this legislation that's on the table, and when you

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Speaker 3: think of coinbas as business, you know, an exchange company

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Speaker 3: at heart, but you're also expanding out into a blockchain

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Speaker 3: project with base. You know, is it possible to sort

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Speaker 3: of future you know, make legislation that is future proof

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Speaker 3: that considers all the different areas that crypto can get

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Speaker 3: into and not have to be coming back to the

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Speaker 3: question of is this legal or not? In the industry,

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Speaker 3: you know, how do you think about that future when

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Speaker 3: it comes to regulation.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's very interesting is that while the innovation almost

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Speaker 2: always does race ahead of the current state of the law.

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Speaker 2: It hasn't raced ahead of the sentiment among millions of

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Speaker 2: Americans that they want to see digital assets, cryptocurrencies, other

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Speaker 2: blockchage based technologies as part of their financial future. One

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Speaker 2: of the virtues of the pending legislation is that it

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Speaker 2: would call for additional rule making bye bye by the

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Speaker 2: regulator and appropriate agencies to fill in the gaps, to

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Speaker 2: write in the details that are going to evolve over time.

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Speaker 2: But it will provide a durable framework that will last

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Speaker 2: far longer than any one particular administration, any one particular Congress,

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Speaker 2: or certainly any one particular chair of the SEC or

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Speaker 2: any other agency.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because we talk about all the players in

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Speaker 1: Washington here that are needed really to change the tone,

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Speaker 1: and Congress is a big, big part of that. You've

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Speaker 1: been spending a lot of time in Ohio, as I

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Speaker 1: understand it, and it's really interesting Ohio. Of course, you

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Speaker 1: have a senator that has very long been a very

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Speaker 1: vocal point of that sentiment. Banking Committee really the committee

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Speaker 1: here that has a very close relationship to the SEC

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Speaker 1: and its own oversight. How does Ohio change the game?

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Speaker 2: Well, as an Ohio native. I certainly pay a lot

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Speaker 2: of attention to my home state, but putting that aside,

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Speaker 2: Ohio is I think a critical battleground for the future

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Speaker 2: of crypto and the future of le sustainable crypto legislation.

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Speaker 2: Senator Brown has expressed deep skepticism in the past about

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Speaker 2: the digital assets and cryptocurrencies, and yet we're seeing a

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Speaker 2: real conversation around crypto take place in his race against

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Speaker 2: Bernie Marino. And I think that for either of these candidates,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be critical to pay attention to the

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Speaker 2: over one million Ohioans who have now bought and sold

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Speaker 2: cryptocurrencies or digital assets, and the tens of thousands who

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Speaker 2: have signed up as advocates with stand with Crypto, the

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Speaker 2: people who have said we want to have a crypto

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Speaker 2: dialogue in the political dialogue, and we're going to vote

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Speaker 2: on this issue. So I think for both Senator Brown

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Speaker 2: and for mister Marino, it's going to be critical to

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Speaker 2: pay attention to what their voters want.

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Speaker 3: Paul quickly, you know, we started off this segment with

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Speaker 3: that quote from Donald Trump promising to fire Gary Gensler.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering if that happens. Are there any names sort

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Speaker 3: of floating around in your circle of who you'd like

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Speaker 3: to see you get that job.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are certainly all sorts of names that have

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Speaker 2: been floated. We don't have a particular view on those.

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Speaker 2: Which of those individuals might make the best SEC chair.

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Speaker 2: I think regardless of particular names or particular individuals, what's

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Speaker 2: criticals that we have an administration that is committed to

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Speaker 2: sensible rules for crypto and that in nominating someone as

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Speaker 2: chair of the SEC, or in confirming someone on behalf

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Speaker 2: of the Senate Banking Committee, that their views on crypto

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Speaker 2: be a critical part of the conversation, and that they're

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Speaker 2: understanding that crypto needs to be part of our financial

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Speaker 2: future be a critical criteria.

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Speaker 1: Really quickly here, Paul, do you think that if there's

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Speaker 1: a change in administration and a change in the SEC chair,

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Speaker 1: that the suits that the SEC have made against you

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Speaker 1: the nature could change.

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Speaker 2: Well, regardless of whether or not there is any change

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Speaker 2: of view at the SEC as a result of a

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Speaker 2: change in administration, we're prepared to litigate. We're prepared to

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Speaker 2: win that case in court. We're confident that the courts

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Speaker 2: are going to see this our way, and so we

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Speaker 2: are absolutely laser focused on that outcome, but certainly with

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Speaker 2: a change in administration will come the opportunity for a

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Speaker 2: new SEC chair and a new Commission as a whole

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Speaker 2: to reconsider whether this is the right way to regulate

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Speaker 2: this important emerging asset class and technology. It certainly stands

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Speaker 2: in start contrast to what we're seeing in Europe and

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Speaker 2: all over the world, where there's a much more sensible,

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Speaker 2: pragmatic and still tough approach being taken that focuses on

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Speaker 2: legislation not litigation. Is the answer, Paul.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely fascinating to talk to you at this moment. That is,

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Speaker 1: coinbased Chief Legal Officer, Paul Graywell