1 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose. 2 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: Hold it. 3 00:00:36,720 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Now, release slowly again deep in heale hold release, repeating 4 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I 5 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: am deeply, deeply well. I I am deeply well. I 6 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: am deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown. 7 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: And this is the Deeply Well Podcast. 8 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on 9 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative, 10 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care. 11 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: This is where we heal, this is where we become. 12 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining this show. Feel so good to 13 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: be here. 14 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: This week. 15 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: We are going to have such an expansive and timely 16 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: conversation in a way that we never have on this 17 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: show before. And I'm really excited because I feel like 18 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: this show is really blending the ways that we show 19 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: up and impact in the world, the way we show 20 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: up in some of our working spaces, and the way 21 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: that we show up powerfully in this very very rare 22 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: time of living through multiple paradigm shifts. Can I just 23 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: say that one more time, because we really need to 24 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: keep grounding ourselves in that understanding, especially as things feel 25 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: sometimes all over the place and as We're gearing up 26 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: for some really big things that are going to be 27 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: taking place in the United States, which is where I'm based, 28 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: with the upcoming election and the next quarter and a 29 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: lot of the things that have recently been passed and dismantled. 30 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: So there are so many ways that I think we're 31 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: experiencing these paradigm shifts, and my god, just so many 32 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: new tools we need as a society, not just to 33 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: manage our own needs, but new tools in a society 34 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: so that we can really come back together and find 35 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: ways forward. So that is what I'm so excited to 36 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: explore this show with an extra special guest, a real life, 37 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: dear friend and an absolutely brilliant, brilliant woman who is 38 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: a thought leader in so many ways and has been 39 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: for so long. So without further ado, I would like 40 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: to introduce everyone to Denise Hamilton. Denise Hamilton is a 41 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: nationally recognized workplace culture expert. She is the founder and 42 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: CEO of Watch, Her work a digital learning platform for 43 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: professional women, an all hands group, a workplace culture consultancy, 44 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: an in demand speaker and facilitator. She has consulted for 45 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: and presented to dozens of Fortune five hundred companies including ge, Apple, IBM, Shell, BM, 46 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: and Meta, among others. Her thought leadership has been featured 47 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: in Harvard Business Review, Morning, Joe Fox, Bloomberg, SB Newsweek, 48 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: and she is a regular contributor to MIT's Sloan Management Review, 49 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: and her first book, Indivisible, is available now everywhere books 50 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: are sold. Welcome to this show, Denise. 51 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 52 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: We were actually I have to remind everyone, we were 53 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: blessed with your presence probably two to three seasons ago. 54 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: You joined me on the podcast and we had a 55 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: chance to really go deep into so much especially that 56 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: was happening in that time. So anyone that has not 57 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: heard that episode, just within Apple, within Spotify, scroll back 58 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: a couple seasons, and after you listen to this one, 59 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: please check that one out too, because there's just so 60 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: many gems. But first of all, I mean, congratulations on 61 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: this incredible body of work. 62 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much. 63 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: It's important, right and when I sat down a thought 64 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: about writing a book for years, and I didn't know 65 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: that I was ready, that I had something important to 66 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: say it And this book, I'm really proud of it because. 67 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: I speak very. 68 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: Clearly in it, very simply and try to give people 69 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 3: the tools to be the fullness of what's possible. 70 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: Right. 71 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 3: I think there's so much negativity of what you can't 72 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: do and what can't happen and what doesn't work, and 73 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: we forget so often that we are so powerful and 74 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: so capable, and I wanted to capture that in this book. 75 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: I'm going to do a little dip back into the past. 76 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: So Denise and we probably first met. 77 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: We don't do numbers. 78 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: Okay, it was a time ago, a time long, long ago, 79 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: but we were both at the time living in Houston, Texas, 80 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: shout out to Age down and I remember, you know, 81 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: when we first connected. We were both speakers at this event, 82 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: and I think it was like a women's event, and 83 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: I know that we were doing it with like a 84 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: big brand, and it was a really, really, really special night. 85 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: And I just remember the two of us were both 86 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: on stage and we just hit it off like immediately, 87 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: and then we locked in like for a few years. 88 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: And we were both there in Texas and I remember 89 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: both of us around the same time and said, I 90 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: don't want to date it, but I kind of have to. 91 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: I need a timestamp it. But just like no one 92 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: listening do math. We This was probably maybe twenty fourteen, 93 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, twenty fourteen for sure, And I remember at 94 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: the time, you know, both of us were doing what 95 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: we knew as our work at that time, right, Like, 96 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: we were both doing incredibly well. We were both kind 97 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: of leaders in our space, and we were doing work 98 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: that I think definitely led to success and utilized a 99 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: lot of our skill sets and a lot of our gifts. 100 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: But both of us were kind of secretly and privately 101 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: really diving into so much more. And we had, you know, 102 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: these kind of internal worlds and ways that we were 103 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: seeing the world and ways that we were interacting with 104 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: the world that we weren't seeing anywhere else. And I 105 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: remember in that time even I think this is like 106 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: right before coworking kind of like became a thing. We 107 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: just started co working and we didn't. 108 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: I think we made it cool. 109 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: We made it cool. We didn't quite know what we 110 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: were building at the time. I mean we did, but 111 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: it was still so unknown, right. You know, your focus 112 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: was absolutely watch her work, and it was absolutely about 113 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: like getting more than you know. This is the way 114 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: I experienced it more than surface level advice to people. 115 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: And that's what had really started brimming to the surface. 116 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: Everything was about like a catchy Instagram name and then 117 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: just kind of like reposting a lot of quotes that 118 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: were inspiring, and that was like whoa, you know, and 119 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: it was like both of us were like yeah, you know, 120 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: and I think because we had been so deep in 121 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: our careers and lives, both of us were like, yeah, 122 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: but that's not really going to get it done. Like 123 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: I get it, and it feels motivating and it's giving 124 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: people this kind of foe empowerment, but it's not actually 125 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: something that drives your life forward or kind of gets 126 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: the roots of your work into the ground, into the core. 127 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: And so we used to meet up at your house, 128 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: at my house, at coffee shops, and at that time, 129 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: I was building my first wellness company, which was Karma Bliss, 130 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: and I had just become a meditation teacher, and you know, 131 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: so we were kind of I feel like we were 132 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: living these secret lives, like it was work by day 133 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: and then it was this other, these other things that 134 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: we were really trying to build and understand and find 135 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: the way we were going to get our gifts out. 136 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: So we'd be there and we'd be building, and you know, 137 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: so it's just it's incredible now we're recording at this 138 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: moment in La. It's just incredible to be together, you know, 139 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: a decade later and everything that's transpired in between that. 140 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: So I have to call that out because I think 141 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: it's the thing that's really interesting to me. And we're 142 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: going to dive into the book, and I really want 143 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: to actually read this book summary, and I have so 144 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: many questions, but you know, the thing that is really 145 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: interesting to me when I see the evolution of your work, 146 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: and especially from Texas, which in the last few years 147 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: has really changed legally, right, Like, it's really changed in 148 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: a lot of ways in terms of what the children 149 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: of Texas can be exposed to in schools, what women 150 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: can do with their bodies, how we can make decisions. 151 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: And so you know, when when you were first kind 152 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: of in those spaces, something that you were doing before 153 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: we started utilizing these terms that we now know like 154 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion, is you were going into a lot 155 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: of these spaces that were mostly white and you were 156 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: having really hard, deep, evocative conversations with leaders that were 157 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: primarily men in these rooms. And so I'm just curious, 158 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, as we kind of as I walk us 159 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: towards your book, first, tell me a little bit about 160 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: watch her work, about your vision for it and how 161 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: you started approaching this work that eventually led you into 162 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: this entire ecosystem and philosophy and indivisible Yes. 163 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: So when I started watch her work, it was really 164 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 3: about empowering women and equipping them legitimately, because to your point, 165 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 3: there was a lot of you go girl, hashtag girl boss. 166 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: There was a lot of that energy. But it wasn't 167 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: like I slept with John in accounting and he's telling 168 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 3: everyone what do I do? Like nobody had real advice 169 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 3: that was really actionable. And I had, throughout my career 170 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 3: been in all of these spaces where I was seeing 171 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 3: that all the little five steps to do this in 172 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: three ways to do that, it just wasn't applicable to 173 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: actual success and actual escalation in these different environments. And 174 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 3: so my work really started with helping women to find mentors, 175 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: to connect with quality advice, and to learn the real 176 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 3: deal and learn how to navigate the spaces they were 177 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: operating in. The more I did that work, the more 178 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 3: I was challenged that I'm really empowering or teaching or 179 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 3: equipping women to navigate toxicity. 180 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: What if we got rid of the toxicity. What if we. 181 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 3: Shifted from the energy of helping you to survive a 182 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: space and really started focusing on how do we make 183 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: this a space where everyone can thrive? And so I 184 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 3: still have always done work with women, but I really 185 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 3: developed a focus on sitting with leaders and challenging why 186 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 3: are we doing this this way? Are we sure this 187 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 3: is aligned with our values? Are we sure that this 188 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: is the kind of space we want to have. Are 189 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: we courageous enough to examine the stories that we're using 190 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 3: to make decisions and to direct our activities and just 191 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 3: challenging them, And a lot of closed door sessions, which 192 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: I think is really important. I think it's really hard 193 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 3: for leaders to say I don't know. It's really hard 194 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 3: for leaders to say, I'm not sure how to tackle. 195 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: This new space or this new situation. 196 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 3: I'm really good at selling sprockets, but I'm not really 197 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 3: sure what to do with these dynamics of difference and 198 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 3: how to get the most out of the people that 199 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: are working with me. 200 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 2: And so I started focusing there. 201 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 3: And one of the beauties of living in Texas and 202 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: having a business that's based there is I kind of 203 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 3: feel like the tip of the spear, right. I don't 204 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: have the same tools that a lot of people that 205 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: do this work have. I don't have a lot of stick. 206 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: I have to have more carrot. I have to persuade 207 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 3: people into this space and into these values. I have 208 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: to recruit more than in other parts of the country. 209 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 3: I go into a lot of rooms where everybody's arms 210 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: are crossed and they are not interested in what. 211 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: I have to say. 212 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 3: And so that skill set of recruiting people into these 213 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: values has sharpened. Kind of this toolkit that I wanted 214 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 3: to share in the book because I want people to 215 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 3: not be at war, but to figure out how do 216 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 3: we live and thrive and excel together. And to do that, 217 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 3: I think there's a few things we're going to have 218 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: to change about how we interact with each other. 219 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, I would like to lead in now to 220 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: some of the summary of the book, and I really 221 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: want everyone to kind of really sink into this for 222 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: a second, because you know, on this show specifically, everything 223 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: is geared towards higher consciousness and towards a lot of 224 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: the soul work that we do, and you know, we 225 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: are spiritual beings. Having a human experience and the human 226 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: experience is very challenging right now for everyone for such 227 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: a multitude of reasons. But learning how to now navigate 228 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: and kind of integrate those two things, your inner spirit, 229 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: your inner soul, your inner guidance, and the way that 230 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: you can show up in the world and the way 231 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: that you can self advocate in the world and build 232 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: in the world. We got to blend the two. So 233 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: Denise's book Indivisible Again. It's available everywhere books are sold. 234 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: Indivisible how to forge our differences into a stronger future. 235 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: So this book helps readers unpack their preconceived notions and 236 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: reimagine a world that's better than just inclusive. Denise has 237 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: always believed in the power and promise of a word 238 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: she learned as indivisible. In her groundbreaking debuts, she challenges 239 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: readers to move beyond current notions of diversity and inclusion 240 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: to build communities, workplaces, and relationships that live up to 241 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: that word. She urges us to re examine long held 242 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: beliefs and habits and to dismantle higherarchys that shape our 243 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: current society. If we want to repair the frame stitches 244 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: that bind us together, if we want to build a 245 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: truly close knit collective. We cannot settle for our present approach. 246 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: It's time to recalibrate and identify a goal higher than inclusivity, 247 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: the goal of indivisibility. As a nationally recognized DEI leader, 248 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: Denise shares accessible personal stories and offer self examination questions, 249 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: intentional action steps, and journal prompts. While the book has 250 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: a focus on business and leadership, the lessons within can 251 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: transform our professional and personal lives. 252 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: Woo woo woo. 253 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: That's the work. So where I'd love to start is 254 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: we have been, especially since twenty twenty, specifically hearing the 255 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: terminology diversity Inclusion DEI, and it's also coming under fire 256 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: in a really big way right now and a lot 257 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: of languages being thrown around. But if you would ground us, 258 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: what is DEI in the workplace and how does it function? 259 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: Such an important question because I think that we underestimate 260 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 3: how invested people are. 261 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: In us not understanding each other. 262 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: Right there's been such a campaign of really corrupting the language. 263 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 2: I recently heard someone. 264 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 3: Say that the flat came off of an airplane and 265 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: it's because of DEI. 266 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: Or the bridge fell in Baltimore. 267 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 3: And it's because the mayor is a dei mayor it's 268 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: just become this word that doesn't mean anything, right, And 269 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: I think that's done intentionally, absolutely. 270 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: Woke. They with everything. 271 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: There's there's a desperation around stealing the language, because if 272 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: we can figure out how to speak to each other, 273 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: we can connect so much more deeply. Right, So there's 274 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 3: a there's a effort afoot, and I think it's really 275 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 3: important for us. 276 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 2: To be aware of that. I really work very hard. 277 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 3: To simplify my language whenever I'm talking about these topics, 278 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 3: because I want to make sure I'm desperately understood, clearly understood. 279 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 3: So DEI, what it means to me is just creating 280 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: spaces that allow people to bring their giftedness into the 281 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 3: environment without unnecessary hurdles or barriers. That's all it is 282 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 3: to me. How do you create a space where the 283 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 3: best dancers can dance and they're not limited or restricted 284 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 3: in any way. I have a recurring nightmare that the 285 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 3: cure for cancer was already born. It was just born 286 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 3: in the wrong neighborhood. So we don't have it. We 287 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 3: cannot afford to waste human genius, human potential, human giftedness. 288 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 3: And so what DEI seeks to do is to create 289 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 3: access points and entry ramps for every single person to 290 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 3: do what they were put on this earth to do. Right, 291 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 3: and any company, any organization, any country is only amplified 292 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 3: by that. 293 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 2: Right. 294 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 3: When we give people a chance to be the best 295 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: version of themselves, we all thrive, we all. 296 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 2: Benefit from that. That to me is what DEI is. 297 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: And unfortunately you mentioned the backlash, and in a way, 298 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: I've always expected a backlash. You know, I believe in homeostasis. 299 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 3: If you remember this from ninth grade biology. When you 300 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 3: have a cell, the cell kind of lets water and 301 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 3: nutrients in, and let's waste and toxins out, anything to 302 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 3: keep the cell average normal regular. Your body does the 303 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: same thing. When you're hot, you sweat, when you're cold, 304 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 3: you shiver, anything to keep you normal, average regular. Well, 305 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 3: I believe every system in the world is like that. 306 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: And when you are. 307 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 3: Trying to create real, palpable, significant change, you better believe 308 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 3: the forces are going to gather to push you back 309 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: to normal average regular. 310 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 2: It takes an. 311 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 3: Almost supernatural commitment to push yourself to do something new. 312 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 3: There's nothing more incredible than someone who's willing to do 313 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 3: a new thing. And so we expected this kind of 314 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: pendulum to swing back right. We knew that there was 315 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: going to be a resistance and there was going to 316 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: be a leveraging of power to push us back to 317 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: the good old days. I don't think there are good 318 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 3: old days. I think each generation is given their chance 319 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 3: to write their chapter of this story, and it's. 320 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: Our generation's turn. 321 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 3: I'm not interested in going back to chapter three, or 322 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 3: chapter five or chapter seven. 323 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: I want to write our chapter. I want to go forward. 324 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 3: And so one of the things that we all have 325 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: to do is kind of fight that homeostatic force that 326 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 3: pushes us back to the hell we know as opposed 327 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 3: to pushing us onto the heaven that we're capable of accessing. 328 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: Deeply. 329 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: Well, how does DEI function in the workplace, Well, there's 330 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: a number of different programs and structures that are leveraged. 331 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: It could be anything from groups like employee resource groups 332 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 3: that are focused on creating solidarity support encouragement of groups 333 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 3: that are underrepresented in those populations. It could be focusing 334 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 3: on recruitment practices, retention practices with There are a lot 335 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 3: of environments and I experienced this in my career several 336 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: times where some of these environments are hostile if you're different. 337 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 3: If you know, the first woman, the first African American. 338 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 3: I've been that in almost every job I've ever had. 339 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 3: And so the DEI structures within organizations really try to 340 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 3: support employees that are non traditional for whatever reason to 341 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 3: thrive in those environments, as well as training leaders on 342 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 3: how to best support them, develop them, and make sure 343 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 3: that they're allowing the story to change. 344 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 2: Right. 345 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 3: For example, I work with a lot of women who 346 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 3: are going on an executive track, and you know, can 347 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 3: a woman be the CEO if she's five feet tall 348 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: or she has a high voice, or can someone soft 349 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 3: spoken be a leader? Can it introvert be a leader. 350 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 3: There's all of these things, these norms that we've had 351 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 3: all of our lives. Quite frankly, that kind of aren't true. 352 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 3: You are capable of contributing even if you are different 353 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 3: from what the normal kind of prototype is. And so 354 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: what DEI seeks to do, in my opinion, is to 355 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 3: challenge and update those norms and practices to make sure 356 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: that you can extract value out of every employee. And 357 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: it's really funny we act like this is such a 358 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 3: strange thing to do, and it really isn't we saw 359 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 3: it in tech? Right, There was a season where everybody 360 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 3: that worked in corporate if you went to an IBM office, 361 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: everybody who was dressed in their suit and their tie 362 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 3: and their starched white shirt and they had their pocket protector. 363 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: Right. 364 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 3: And as the skill set of coding changed, all of 365 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: a sudden, you started seeing people with piercings and tattoos 366 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 3: and mohawks that were working because it didn't matter what 367 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 3: they dressed like. It mattered that they could do the 368 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 3: work and they could contribute their talents. 369 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: Right. 370 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: So if we can do that, there, can we do 371 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: that with these other groups as well? 372 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 2: And to me, that is essentially what DEI is. 373 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: Wow, Why is it in this moment kind of being 374 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: centered in a way that's so combative for people? Why 375 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: is what is the blowback that's happening? And why are 376 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,239 Speaker 1: we kind of talking about it and the way that 377 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: we are in this moment? Which the date is if 378 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: anyone finds this episode in the future, we are in 379 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: April twenty twenty four. 380 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 3: Well, I think that. 381 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 2: My simple answer would be grief. That's not a word. 382 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: I'm sure you didn't respect that word, but. 383 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 3: I think that we have a story of how things 384 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: are supposed to go, what is supposed to look like, 385 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 3: how the world is supposed to happen, And when people 386 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: like me come along and say, actually, this the world 387 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 3: can happen in all these different kinds of I'm literally 388 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 3: asking people to give up their story right of what 389 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 3: they were supposed to have and what they're entitled to 390 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 3: and how things are supposed to go. And even if 391 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: it's right, even if it's true, even if it's accurate, 392 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 3: doesn't mean it's not painful. So there's this loss, this threat, 393 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 3: this fear that will you treat me the way I've 394 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 3: treated you? Well, I have a space here. If we 395 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 3: make these spaces truly, what does equal mean? 396 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: You know? And there's a feeling of indictment. Right if. 397 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 3: Someone comes and says, hey, we can do this better. 398 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: Do you have the capacity to see it as okay, 399 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 3: let's just improve or do you process it through an 400 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 3: indictment and a failure of what you were doing before? 401 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 3: This conversation is intervention? And so everybody wants to be 402 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 3: the hero of their story, and when they get feedback 403 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: that says, you know, you might not be the hero 404 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: of this story, or this didn't go exactly the way 405 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 3: you thought it when and you don't, you're not really 406 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: supposed to get that just because you think you're supposed 407 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 3: to get that. Those are difficult messages to embrace, and 408 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 3: I think we're seeing a lot of resistance because as 409 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 3: we decenter any group of people, I think there's a 410 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 3: temptation to try to hold on to a familiar experience 411 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 3: of being centered. And so it's it's been interesting for 412 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: me as I again, I work with a lot of 413 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: populations that are not always glad to see me, not always, 414 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 3: not always fully engaged and committed to this work. And 415 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 3: one of the things that I have to give them 416 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: space to do is to talk about their loss and 417 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 3: their fear and persuade them right, really, that's what it is. 418 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 3: Help them to see that I'm not trading my misery 419 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 3: for your misery. I'm trying to say, let's put down 420 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 3: our miseries and let's move to another plane and create 421 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: another story and another opportunity for how to see these 422 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 3: spaces and to see our lives. We're all in this together. 423 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 3: There's this weird kind of energy of sitting in one 424 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: end of the boat and saying, oh my gosh, look 425 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 3: at the hole in their end, as if you're not 426 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: all in the same boat. We move like we're very 427 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: disconnected from each other. And what I try to do 428 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 3: is remind people we all are sharing this experience, and 429 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 3: the more we are valuing each other and creating space 430 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 3: for each other. 431 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: The better that experience is going to be. But there's 432 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: a lot of fear. 433 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 3: There's a lot of fear of loss that I think 434 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 3: we're feeling right now. 435 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: So interesting because you know, I think there is this 436 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: grouping of people that right now like to specifically say like, oh, 437 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: you know, why does everything have to be about race? 438 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: But then the complaints are literally about race. It's about 439 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: but I'm not centered anymore, and other people are having 440 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: opportunities to because of their race, but it's because of 441 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: your race. It's just like unreal. So one of the 442 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: things that I really love is that you're seeking to 443 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: create something better than inclusive. You got to break that 444 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: down for me, what is better than inclusive? 445 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: I think one of the limitations of DEI, to be honest, 446 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 3: has been measurement, right. I think there's a temptation to 447 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 3: reduce values to something that you can put on a 448 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: list in a report for the annual meeting. Right, So 449 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 3: you don't really have a true metric. You have the 450 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 3: metric that feels attainable, that's driven by our kind of 451 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 3: like sometimes pathological obsession with immediate success. 452 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: Right. 453 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: So let me give you an example of what I 454 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 3: mean by that. Let's say I'm gonna measure motherhood, and 455 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: I'm gonna give you five metrics for what makes a 456 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 3: good mother. You put a roof over your child's head, 457 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 3: their clothed, they're fed, they're you know, pick five metrics. 458 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: You could be killing it on all five of those metrics. 459 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 3: But if you beat your child half to death every night, 460 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: you are not a good mother. And so the challenge 461 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 3: that we have is we have settled for a lesser goal. 462 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: Very often, it's not really. 463 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 3: The barriers or the hurdles between us and the bigger 464 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: goal that's the problem. It's the ease of the lesser goal. 465 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: We can have a pot look for Chinese New Year. 466 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 3: We can have twelve employee resource groups, we can have 467 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: great speakers come in and speak on Women's Empowerment Day. 468 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: You know, those efforts are wonderful, they're fabulous, but they're 469 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 3: not the goal. 470 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: The goal is that. 471 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 3: We are impacting hearts and minds that we're changing our 472 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 3: direction and our efforts to make sure that these spaces 473 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 3: are opened up in a way that is observable. Right, 474 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 3: And so as we kind of look at how we 475 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 3: approach our work, I guess for me, I wanted to 476 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 3: replace a big value, a big target, a big dream. 477 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 3: And for me, that word is indivisible. Here's a word 478 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: that every American school child says. I don't even know 479 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 3: how many times I've said it in my life. It's 480 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 3: in the Pledge of Allegiance, and nobody knows what it means. 481 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally was going to say, and so what 482 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: does it mean? Is it like undivided? From me? 483 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 3: It's seeing the value, the worth, the beauty, the power 484 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 3: of each individual component and that coming together. I believe 485 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 3: if you can be indivisible, you can be indestructible. 486 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: Right. 487 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 3: And the best example, like the metaphor that I use 488 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: for this, is the human body. The lungs and the brain. 489 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 3: Don't argue which one of us is important. It understands 490 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 3: both are important. Your legs have the strongest muscle group 491 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: in your body. They can take you anywhere you want 492 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 3: to go, but you are going exactly nowhere without the 493 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 3: tiny little structures in your ear that manage your balance. 494 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 3: It's not about size, it's not about position. It's about 495 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 3: every single part doing its part and being allowed to 496 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 3: do so as successfully as is within their skill set 497 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 3: or in their capability. And to me, that's a value, 498 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 3: right that we all need to be working towards. And 499 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 3: so it it's not easily measured. I can't tell you 500 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 3: these are the twenty five things that you have to 501 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: do and check check, check, check check. 502 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: A lot of people ask me for a checklist. 503 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: Oh god, there's a and it's not a no more 504 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: he clifts and hacks. 505 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 3: Oh my, it's so it's the templatizing of everything, right, 506 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 3: And I get that. I get we want to win, 507 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 3: we want to succeed, and so tell me the five 508 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 3: things I have to do, Denise, and I'll do it. Check, check, check, 509 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 3: And it's like, there's no checklist. This is a way 510 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 3: to be, This is a way to interact with each other. 511 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 3: This is a way to feel your way through the world. 512 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 3: And doesn't mean you're not gonna make mistakes. You're gonna 513 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 3: you're not gonna have missteps. Of course, you are right 514 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: if you care about people then, and you're engaging with them. 515 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 3: People are gonna people, and you're gonna have disagreement sometimes. 516 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 3: But this desire to kind of reduce it and make 517 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: it's simple and measurable. 518 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 2: And check check check has us by a choke hold. 519 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 3: And so when I was thinking about what I wanted 520 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 3: to name this book, I wanted to give us a 521 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: better north star, a higher target of what we're here 522 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: to accomplish. 523 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: That's so deep, it's so deep in so many ways. 524 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: I love the analogy about the brain and the heart 525 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: and arguing about who's more important, and it's really just 526 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: understanding everyone is equally important and valuable and we all 527 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: have to operate in unison for the greater good, for 528 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: a bigger goal, for the functioning of this body, and 529 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: to what end, Like there's no winning, right, Like if 530 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: your brain was to battle your lungs, if we lost 531 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: either of those, we're out of here, right, We're gone. 532 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 3: And you definitely are not operating at your maximum functionality 533 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: if you have whole parts of you that are underperforming 534 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 3: or under equipped. 535 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's how. 536 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 3: I want people to think, like, we will all do 537 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 3: better if we focus on this goal, right, instead of 538 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 3: seeing this through a lens of loss and what you 539 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 3: have to give up and what sacrifices you have to make. Right, 540 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 3: Why don't we see it as this is the way 541 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 3: we kind of evolve. And you know, we talk a 542 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: lot about AI and how what it means to be 543 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 3: human is literally being redefined right before our eyes. 544 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 2: And to me, this is so real. This is it. 545 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 3: It's Do we have the ability to connect with each other, 546 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 3: to create together? Do we have the ability to create 547 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 3: space for human ingenuity to take us to the next level? 548 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 2: And I think if we don't do that, the. 549 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 3: Machines will out human us, right, And so I think 550 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 3: I want us to really remember what it means and 551 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 3: maybe we. 552 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: Never knew, right. 553 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: That's another thing of looking into yourself and really thinking 554 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 3: about how do you think about the people around you, 555 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 3: who's important and who's not? How do you think about 556 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 3: hoarding opportunity? How do you think about the spaces that 557 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 3: are created for us all to operate in? How do 558 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 3: you think about it all? Yeah? 559 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 560 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: So I have so many roads I want to go 561 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: down with this exact moment that we're at. And one 562 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: of the things I just I really feel called to 563 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: call out and I would love, I would just love 564 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: for you to kind of expand with your philosophy on this, 565 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, like what you're speaking to, this this hoarding 566 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: of opportunity, this like we are in such a moment 567 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: and such a society, and granted, like this has always 568 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: been the case, especially for the vast majority, but we're 569 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: seeing it now in a way that permeates every moment 570 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: of your life because of social media. Whereas before you'd 571 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: go to work or you'd go to school, and you'd 572 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: come home, so you had all these different pockets of 573 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: reality that could kind of balance each other out in 574 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: some ways. Right, Like, I'm born in the eighties, so 575 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: I remember some of that. I remember some of how 576 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: life used to feel. But there is something I think 577 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: about so much, Denise, is this culture of validation that 578 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 1: we're in right now, and how dangerous it is, and 579 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: the way that I view it is everyone is searching 580 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: for what they may not have received from their parent 581 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: or authority figure, this idea of unconditional love, this idea 582 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: of really seeing you and celebrating you, and now everyone 583 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: is requiring it of every person they know and everyone 584 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: in the greater world. And it's like this need this 585 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: empty void that can just never be filled. Like the 586 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: expectation is that everything is you being seen and heard 587 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: everything and in the way you want to be and 588 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 1: in the. 589 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 2: Way you want to be, which is a really important. 590 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: Yes, And that everything is this celebration. And so it's 591 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: like even with work and I think about you know, 592 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: watch her work here and the kinds of advice that 593 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: the deepening of the layers of advice that you have 594 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: been giving women access to. You know, we have to 595 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: really challenge this idea that we have to always be 596 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: supported and celebrated and validated by everybody just because we 597 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: want to be. And especially in the sense that I 598 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: think so many people are expecting so much more than 599 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: even their parents could provide by people that know them 600 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,720 Speaker 1: in such small ways, you know. And it's it's really 601 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: it's such a validation addiction, and it cannot end well. 602 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: There is no way that it can end well. And 603 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: I think people are looking for celebration, especially in the 604 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: work capacity and the wrong moments, you know. I think 605 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: there was to a certain extent, there's a grouping of 606 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: people who do need a certain amount of motivation and 607 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: feedback to kind of get going right. Motivation and inspiration 608 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: are two very different things that stem from two very 609 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: different places, and that kind of nourish you into very 610 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: different ways. And something that we noticed ten years ago 611 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: when we were talking about, you know, that kind of 612 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: go girl, girl boss culture that I think really has 613 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: done such a disservice to the way we go about 614 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: the work of our lives. People want the celebration for 615 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: paying the twenty to five hundred dollars for the URL, 616 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: for the LLC, for coming up with a catching name, right, like, oh, 617 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: I have this vision, and like the is only that 618 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: it's a name that sounds pleasing to an ear in 619 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: the way we like to hear things right now, right, 620 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: And it's like everyone demands that that has the fanfare, 621 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: that that is what sets you apart and how you 622 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: want to be seen, And it's all perception and none 623 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: of it's real. 624 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 2: What is the work? 625 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 1: And then how do you sustain the work and how 626 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: do you elevate the work and continue to evolve into 627 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,919 Speaker 1: all the different things that we're each meant to do. 628 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: But it does require something, and very often it is 629 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: not really celebrated in real time. I think of all 630 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: the greats that have lasted for a century or more 631 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 1: that created the works that we still talk about today, 632 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: and almost none of them were knowledged for it while 633 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 1: they were alive. And to me, that serves as such 634 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: a powerful guiding force in my own life to just 635 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: say and I'm so please, let me just say, I'm 636 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: it's so grateful for everyone, profoundly grateful for everyone that 637 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: connects with my work, for everyone that lets me know 638 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: how deeply my work impacts our lives, Like I thank you. 639 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: It means the world to me. But I have to 640 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: work from a space where I don't listen to the 641 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: praise or the criticism. I can't be moved by it. 642 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: And so I'm just I'm so curious because so much 643 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: of your work has already been that it's about the 644 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: deeper nourishing of whatever it is you people are creating 645 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: whatever is their purpose. And so yeah, how do you 646 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: feel with all that this tips and tricks, this validation, 647 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: this You know, money is a tool, but everybody is 648 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: worshiping it and thinking that it means something about them. 649 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 2: And their worth. 650 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: And I just hear so many people creating these pyramid schemes, 651 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: these multi level marketings to pretty much scam and manipulate 652 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: people into giving them more money. But what is the work? 653 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 2: What is the work? And this hole you describe it 654 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 2: so appropriately. 655 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 3: There is no shortage of noise, there's no shortage of 656 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 3: empty calories that are shoveled at us day in and 657 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 3: day out. And the kind of the biggest tragedy of 658 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 3: it is you don't even know how to listen to 659 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 3: your own voice. 660 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 2: We don't have any moment of boredom. Remember boredom where 661 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 2: you would sit. 662 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 3: On a line or stand on the line at the 663 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 3: supermarket and you would just your mind would just go 664 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 3: and you would daydream, and you would everybody's into their phone. 665 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 3: Their tension spans are shrinking by the second, and it's 666 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 3: not even attractive to disconnect and to listen to your 667 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,720 Speaker 3: own voice. We've made it ridiculous, We've made it silly. 668 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 3: There's so many people that have so many thoughts about 669 00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 3: what you should be doing and how you should be 670 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 3: doing it, and what it should look like and what 671 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 3: the shape is, and you should do it, you should 672 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 3: do this, that that that. Like if if I listen 673 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,839 Speaker 3: to everything everyone else said, I wouldn't get out of bed, 674 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 3: Like I wouldn't produce anything. You could just be in 675 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 3: a in a kind of on a treadmill of activity 676 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 3: that means absolutely nothing. 677 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:23,760 Speaker 2: It means nothing. 678 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 3: And so you know, one of the things that I 679 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 3: go into organizations, they're so proud and they show me 680 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 3: all the things they're working on and all the activities 681 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 3: and the programs, and I'm like, okay, and I always 682 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 3: ask for a list of things that they were not 683 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 3: prepared for me to ask for. What's the turnover of 684 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,280 Speaker 3: women in executive roles in this company? Wow, let's track 685 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 3: during a conversation, how often do the women get to talk? Right, 686 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 3: Let's let's count it. Give me the last meeting that 687 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 3: you did, and I'll watch the minutes of how often 688 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 3: she was cut off? 689 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 2: Or like you know what I'm saying, Like there are metrics. 690 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 3: That we can really look at that tell you what's 691 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 3: really going on at organization. But like behavioral science, it is, 692 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 3: it is. And it's so tempting to focus on the 693 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 3: logo and the graphics and the website and the outshit 694 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,919 Speaker 3: and the photo shoot and it's so easy, but it's like, what, Eva. 695 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 2: What is the thing that you're supposed to bring to 696 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 2: this conversation? How are you different? 697 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 3: What is the value, what's the unique perspective? And you know, 698 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 3: when I was writing the book, my friend Joan Ball, 699 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 3: she gave me the most amazing advice. I hit kind 700 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 3: of a like a little roadblock, like a little writer's 701 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 3: block kind of moment, and I was kind of talking 702 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 3: to her and saying like, oh, I have this deadline 703 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 3: and I just feel like nothing's coming out. And she said, 704 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 3: you know, said, Denise, ideas are like fruit. You can't 705 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,280 Speaker 3: pick it before it's ripe. Go walk down the street 706 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 3: and look at some trees and pet dog and back 707 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 3: in the grass and literally and let the ideas mature. 708 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: We don't give ourselves space for the ideas to mature 709 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 2: and for the experiences to sit right. 710 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,560 Speaker 3: And the kind of flip side of what you've mentioned 711 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:22,680 Speaker 3: in terms of validation is also the perpetual broadcasting. Everybody 712 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 3: is a broadcaster now, and that's amazing in a lot 713 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 3: of ways. The democratization of access to share your voice 714 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 3: and to add to the greater dialogue is incredible, But 715 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,879 Speaker 3: so much of that conversation is one way, and it's 716 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 3: with strangers. The real way you change the world is 717 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 3: with friends, is with relationship, is building taking time to 718 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 3: build an actual relationship, then you can talk to each 719 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 3: other and have some impact on each other, but we're 720 00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:02,240 Speaker 3: satisfied with this calorically empty communication that doesn't mean anything. 721 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 2: Deeply. 722 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: Well, our behavior is what fuels our evolution, ultimately right, 723 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: and the nuance and the context behind the behavior gets 724 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,840 Speaker 1: lost throughout history, so we forget the whys of the house, 725 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: and then we just end up in these ways of 726 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: being and these ways of communicating, in these ways of living. 727 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: The part that you just brought up is something I 728 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,840 Speaker 1: think about so often. 729 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 2: Which is. 730 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: This idea of broadcasting and this idea of turning your 731 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: life into content. Because if you're turning your life into 732 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 1: content and always thinking of it in terms of content, 733 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: you're not actually living and experiencing a life. It's always 734 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: a premeditated performance. And if you are always broadcasting out 735 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,880 Speaker 1: to people and to what you said, not actually being 736 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: in community with anyone the way, And I hear this 737 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: all the time in so many people when they talk 738 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 1: like sometimes I'll be at you know, like a beautiful 739 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,440 Speaker 1: intimate lunch with someone and they don't know how to 740 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: have a conversation anymore. They just know how to talk 741 00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: at you. They know how to just say things at you, 742 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: but there is no space for actual connection, any feedback, 743 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: any exchange of thought or dialogue. People are speaking to 744 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: one another in a monologue and it is the most 745 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,440 Speaker 1: bizarre thing, and it keeps everyone in a silo. And 746 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: it's like we're creating a system where everyone thinks they're 747 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: getting their needs met because they have some kind of 748 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: quote unquote community in terms of people you don't know 749 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: are responding to you right or like watching you. 750 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 2: It's not the same. 751 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,720 Speaker 1: It's not the same, And it honestly worries me because 752 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: what are we losing? What are we missing? And what 753 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 1: are these future generations that have no other examples When 754 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,000 Speaker 1: you think of Alpha generation, the littles right now, when 755 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: you think of the younger gen z, like the art 756 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: of real community and conversation, it truly is dying. And 757 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: as AI continues to expand and these you know, metaverses whatever, 758 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: all the things like, it's just gonna take us farther 759 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: and farther away from our humanity if we let it, 760 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: if we let it, if we let it, and so yeah, 761 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: so that's just so important. 762 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 3: What I think we've done is substitute knowledge for wisdom. 763 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 3: We have unlimited knowledge at our fingertips. Right, the fact 764 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 3: that you know how to do something is not going 765 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 3: to help help you to determine if you should do. 766 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,399 Speaker 2: That thing right? 767 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 3: And so what does it mean? It's really important to 768 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,320 Speaker 3: me as I do this work. I'm fifty three, and 769 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 3: I think my generation really stepped back because we were 770 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,439 Speaker 3: overwhelmed or outstripped by technology and we felt like, well, 771 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 3: what do I have to tell this twenty five year 772 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,359 Speaker 3: old or this nineteen year old because they know how 773 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,320 Speaker 3: to do everything. I'm asking them questions? Right, But knowledge 774 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,360 Speaker 3: is not the same as wisdom. And the call to 775 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 3: action that I always give to people in my age 776 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 3: group is get back in the game. Sit with the 777 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,359 Speaker 3: young people in your lives and have real conversations. Teach 778 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,000 Speaker 3: them how to be patient and how to interact and 779 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 3: how to make a phone call. 780 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,479 Speaker 2: I had some. 781 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,799 Speaker 3: Interns in my office and I asked one to make 782 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 3: a phone call and she started crying, I don't Can 783 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 3: I just text them? 784 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 2: Can I just email them? 785 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 3: And I said no, We're going to sit together and 786 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 3: we're going to make a phone call. A million years 787 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,800 Speaker 3: I would have never thought that would be a problem, 788 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,279 Speaker 3: but that's where we are. And in this broadcast kind 789 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 3: of culture, we lose something incredibly important, right in communication. 790 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 3: I have my story and you have your story, and 791 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,000 Speaker 3: if we talk, we have a chance to create a 792 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 3: bigger story, a shared story. 793 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 2: But if it's just. 794 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,800 Speaker 3: Broadcast, I keep my story and you keep your story, 795 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 3: and never the twain shall meet. And so it becomes 796 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 3: noble to be stuck in your stance and firm in 797 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 3: your position. It's not valuable to seek compromise and to 798 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 3: move the ball forward. You get more points, more likes, 799 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 3: the more extreme and more angry and more hostile you are, 800 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 3: And so it's this perverse disincentive to find solutions. 801 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 2: I had this in my own life. 802 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,839 Speaker 3: I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, right, and you know, 803 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,200 Speaker 3: guns or a big issue from me. I believe strongly 804 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,840 Speaker 3: that we have to have some kind of gun control. 805 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,920 Speaker 3: We have to protect our children. It can't be getting 806 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 3: shot at school. Like what is this argument? And then 807 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 3: I have a friend of mine who lives in Wyoming 808 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 3: and law enforcement is an hour and a half from 809 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 3: our house, and she's like, I need to be able 810 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,520 Speaker 3: to protect myself. There's animals, there's whatever, And now I 811 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,160 Speaker 3: don't have to give up my story and she doesn't 812 00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 3: have to give up her story, but we have to 813 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,480 Speaker 3: bring our stories together and find a way forward that 814 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 3: we can do things that make sense. And that is 815 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,279 Speaker 3: literally disincentivized in an environment where you get way more 816 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,759 Speaker 3: likes and shares. The more dramatic and horrific and obnoxious 817 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 3: you are, the more intransigent your position, the more locked 818 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,640 Speaker 3: in you are, the more points you get. That's not 819 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 3: how you move forward, it's not how you build. 820 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: And what do you really get for that? Right? And 821 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,279 Speaker 1: I think that's the thing back to validations points that 822 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: we've been Yeah, I'm making this whole episode is like 823 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,719 Speaker 1: what is the actual value and like what is the 824 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: value in your life and in your life long term 825 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,560 Speaker 1: when you think of the span of a human life, 826 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,279 Speaker 1: Like that piece that you said about just kind of 827 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,840 Speaker 1: getting caught up in activity and then all of a 828 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,319 Speaker 1: sudden you look and you say, what was actually accomplished 829 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: with my life? And that doesn't mean necessarily material or 830 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: like worldly success. It's not saying you have to have 831 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: this title or this thing as an accomplishment, but like 832 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: what shifted in you as a being? 833 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 2: Right? 834 00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,280 Speaker 1: Like how did your soul advance? Whose life did you touch? 835 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? Who did you save? Who did you help? Who 836 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,320 Speaker 2: did you help? 837 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,479 Speaker 3: How did you change the world? How is it better 838 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 3: because you were here? I just don't think it's by 839 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,360 Speaker 3: humiliating other people. That's It's a pet peeve of mine 840 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,000 Speaker 3: that we have adopted this practice of humiliation. 841 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:51,120 Speaker 2: We see them. 842 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,759 Speaker 3: They go to a college campus and they find a 843 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 3: little girl with blue hair and a nose ring, and 844 00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 3: they stick a microphone in her face and she says something. 845 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,320 Speaker 2: Ha ha ha, Isn't she stupid? 846 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 3: Or they go to a Trump rally and they find 847 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 3: somebody dressed in this wild outfit and they stick the 848 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 3: microphone in his face and he says something ahistorical and 849 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 3: ha ha ha, isn't he stupid? Has anybody ever come 850 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 3: to your position because you humiliated them, because you made 851 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,439 Speaker 3: them feel small, or you dismiss them, or you diminish them. 852 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: That's not how this works. 853 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 2: Not how any of this works. 854 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 3: Right, And so this idea, can we put down the humiliation, 855 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 3: the one upmanship, the righteous kind of the self righteous centering, 856 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 3: and can we open ourselves up to engage in actual, 857 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 3: real conversation with people and let the story change, let 858 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 3: it expand, let it become bigger, and our stories they 859 00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 3: don't let us go easily, right, they don't. One of 860 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 3: my favorite stories is a Rapunzel and this idea I 861 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,640 Speaker 3: was in my forties before it ever even occurred to me. 862 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,839 Speaker 3: And if you never heard the story of Arapunzel, She's 863 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,319 Speaker 3: a princess, She's stuck in a tower inappropriately long hair. 864 00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,240 Speaker 3: There's no door to the tower. She helps her the witch, 865 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,000 Speaker 3: get in out of tower with her hair. She helps 866 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,840 Speaker 3: the prince get in out of tower with her hair. 867 00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 3: I was in my forties before I ever asked a question. 868 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,760 Speaker 3: Why didn't Rapunzel use her hair to get out the tower? 869 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 3: Why didn't she help herself? 870 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:32,560 Speaker 2: Right? 871 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,279 Speaker 3: How many stories do we have of weight and someone 872 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 3: will come and save you, sleeping beauty Cinderella? I mean literally, 873 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 3: there's this theme. So what I have to do is 874 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,440 Speaker 3: can I let that story change? Can I step into 875 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,839 Speaker 3: my power and what I'm capable of doing because a 876 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 3: gift has been given to me for me to do 877 00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 3: something with that. And I think it's really hard to 878 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 3: give up our stories because they tell us who we are. 879 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 3: They tell us what the bad guy looks like and 880 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:05,800 Speaker 3: who gets to live happily. 881 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,920 Speaker 2: Ever, after they give us order to our lives. But 882 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 2: a lot of our stories. 883 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 3: Are broken, a lot of them are incomplete, and some 884 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 3: of them are completely untrue. And so the work that 885 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:23,160 Speaker 3: we have is examining them and having the very necessary 886 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,799 Speaker 3: courage to let them go when they don't serve us. 887 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,239 Speaker 3: You know, one of my terms I have purged from 888 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,399 Speaker 3: my life as a black woman, I have to work 889 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,240 Speaker 3: twice as hard and jump twice as high. 890 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 2: No I don't, I'm enough. I am enough just as 891 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:39,959 Speaker 2: I am. 892 00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,239 Speaker 3: So we have all of these messages, sometimes given to 893 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:47,600 Speaker 3: us with great intention, sometimes with not such great intentions. 894 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,480 Speaker 3: Do we have the courage to examine them and let 895 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,839 Speaker 3: them go when they don't serve us? 896 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:52,359 Speaker 2: Yeah? 897 00:54:52,960 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, ah yes. Denise Hamilton, please let's connect with her 898 00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,040 Speaker 1: on watch herwork dot com and tell all of the 899 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: women in your life about this, and please go get 900 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,759 Speaker 1: this book, Indivisible How to Forge Our Differences into a 901 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,600 Speaker 1: stronger future. Denise, I'm going to leave this episode with 902 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: soul work that you recommend in the book. So one 903 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: of the things that you urge everyone to do in 904 00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 1: your book is to re examine long held beliefs and 905 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: habits in order to dismantle the societal hierarchies and build 906 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:34,040 Speaker 1: truly close knit communities. You just give a really good 907 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:39,120 Speaker 1: example of that which absolutely was so real and thought 908 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,480 Speaker 1: provoking in the time that that thought first came forward, 909 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,520 Speaker 1: right It called out a very real experience of our 910 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,719 Speaker 1: elders having to do more jump hot, you know, all 911 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,799 Speaker 1: of the things, and life has moved forward, and to 912 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,160 Speaker 1: your point, we have opportunities to re examine our stories 913 00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: and say, like, do I need to still hold this narrative? 914 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: So I would like to share with everyone that for 915 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,120 Speaker 1: this episode, your soul work that you can kind of 916 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,799 Speaker 1: really savor and deepen in as the week goes by, 917 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:17,000 Speaker 1: start examining some of those long held cultural beliefs. On 918 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: this show, I often invite you to examine your inner narratives. 919 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: Right now. I want you to really look at the 920 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,360 Speaker 1: world around you and just start jotting them down in 921 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: a journal bullet point style, but really start to look 922 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: at some of the beliefs you hold about yourself, about 923 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: your cultural background, about how you're received in the world, 924 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 1: about work, about all the different ways that you flow 925 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,759 Speaker 1: through life externally, and just start and see what you 926 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,000 Speaker 1: come up with, and ask yourself and. 927 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,160 Speaker 2: Is this true? And is this true? And is this. 928 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,720 Speaker 1: Useful for me? Denise Hamilton dot co is how everyone 929 00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,799 Speaker 1: can connect with you further and really kind of dive 930 00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,200 Speaker 1: in into all the things that you were doing in 931 00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,440 Speaker 1: the world. And again watch your work is specifically the 932 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: really incredible community for mentorship in the working world. 933 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,240 Speaker 2: And what's your Instagram? 934 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,600 Speaker 1: How can everyone connect with you? There? 935 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:18,960 Speaker 3: Official d ham official official d ig and all the places, 936 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,959 Speaker 3: all the places indivisible. 937 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,880 Speaker 1: Get that book today, and get that book for someone 938 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 1: in your life as well. You know, this is really 939 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,240 Speaker 1: something that's going to be really giving you so many 940 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: thought starters, very thought provoking, and so get into dialogue 941 00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,440 Speaker 1: and actual conversation with another as you explore some of 942 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,160 Speaker 1: these themes. Denise, thank you so much for joining us. 943 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,600 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. Now, Mistay stay 944 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 2: Stay Stay. 945 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,720 Speaker 1: The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational 946 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,480 Speaker 1: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement 947 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does not 948 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable 949 00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,120 Speaker 1: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for 950 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,240 Speaker 1: any specific concerns or questions that you may have, connect 951 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 1: with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, 952 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 1: or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. 953 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,080 Speaker 1: And if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, 954 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,480 Speaker 1: don't forget, please rate, review, and subscribe and send this 955 00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: episode to a friend. Deeply Well is a production of 956 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacqueis Thomas, 957 00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,640 Speaker 1: Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath you 958 00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,720 Speaker 1: heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more 959 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,040 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you 960 00:58:53,240 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Get your tape for the 961 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,440 Speaker 1: Black Effec Podcast Network. Don't Forget. We're doing the Podcast 962 00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:07,400 Speaker 1: Festival April twenty seventh. 963 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 2: Cannot wait to see you there. 964 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing a live show and I have special guests 965 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,280 Speaker 1: to announce that are going to be joining me. So Atlanta, 966 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,120 Speaker 1: April twenty seventh. I cannot wait to see everyone. Everyone, Everyone,