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Speaker 2: Backslash NFL Welcome to Move the Sticks.
Speaker 1: I'm Bucky Brooks and I am here with my man Alz.
Speaker 1: Lance Zerline is stepping in for Daniel Jeremiah and we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk all things football today. But before we do it,
Speaker 1: I got to give a shout out to my guy
Speaker 1: Agetown putting it down with up Lance.
Speaker 3: I'm just subpacking rusher, just trying to come in and
Speaker 3: create havoc and disrupt the pocket. That's all I'm trying
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I love that we can call you anytime, just like
Speaker 1: Mike Jones. I can't pay you one hundred K to
Speaker 1: come and for the show, but I appreciate that in Agetown,
Speaker 1: y'all steal respect.
Speaker 2: Mike Jones like that.
Speaker 1: And I look, I respect the fact that I'm able
Speaker 1: to bring you on a week and talk all of
Speaker 1: these things, and so what we want to talk today,
Speaker 1: we want to talk about.
Speaker 2: How hot Ben Johnson is. He is the flavor of
Speaker 2: the month when it comes to the head coaching search.
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about game of the week, the Green
Speaker 2: Bay Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 1: I think we'll talk about a little bit about this
Speaker 1: college football playoff, the semi finals, and who you expect
Speaker 1: to move on after the weekend is over. But let's
Speaker 1: talk about it. Let's talk about Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson
Speaker 1: is hot. Everyone loves him. He's certainly been putting on
Speaker 1: the show with the Lions. They lead the NFL and
Speaker 1: like points per game thirty three point two points per
Speaker 1: game break second and total yards for game with four
Speaker 1: nine point five.
Speaker 2: He has scheduled to interview with the Raiders, the Patriots,
Speaker 2: the Bears, and then the Jaguars snuck in.
Speaker 1: One, tell me what you think about Ben Johnson, the
Speaker 1: job that he's done with Jared Goff and the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 1: And two, why do you believe so many people are
Speaker 1: hot on his tail?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean everyone's I'm going to reverse order, I
Speaker 3: mean everyone's hot on his on his scent, because look
Speaker 3: at what he's done for the renaissance of Jared Goff
Speaker 3: over the last couple of years, it's been unbelievable.
Speaker 4: And you remember Bucky you there in Los Angeles, people
Speaker 4: are done with him.
Speaker 3: With the Rams, it started off with that bad game
Speaker 3: in the Super Bowl, had no momentum.
Speaker 4: The next year people were done. They brought Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 3: In and it was like, man, what a you know,
Speaker 3: what a what an unbelievable move for LA But it
Speaker 3: turns out that it was a great move for Detroit
Speaker 3: as well. And a lot of that has to go
Speaker 3: I think to to I'm gonna get to Brad Holmes
Speaker 3: in a second, but a lot of it goes to
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson. I think Ben Johnson did a fantastic job
Speaker 3: of recognizing what his quarterback did best, and then over time,
Speaker 3: once the personnel came in and I don't know how
Speaker 3: much you know, input he had on Gibbs for example,
Speaker 3: or not, I would imagine a decent amount he was
Speaker 3: able to, I think, work with Brad Holmes and start
Speaker 3: picking up different pieces that made the most And that's
Speaker 3: and you know, to me, he's he's a brilliant play caller.
Speaker 4: You never know what he's going to do. He keeps you,
Speaker 4: he keeps he keeps the game loose.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's got more trick plays than anybody I've
Speaker 3: ever seen in the NFL. A lot of times we
Speaker 3: feel like, you know, that's a Dan Campbell. You see
Speaker 3: that and you think, man, that's Dan Campbell riverboat. But
Speaker 3: it's Ben Johnson calling the plays and designing those plays.
Speaker 3: So I think there's a lot of that. But Bucky might.
Speaker 4: You know, there's no question why he's hot.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's gotten the most out of an offense,
Speaker 3: He's got the most out of his quarterback.
Speaker 4: But the tricky part is when you have to say, Okay,
Speaker 4: who is this guy as a head coach. It's one
Speaker 4: thing to be a great play caller.
Speaker 3: It's one thing to be a great defensive coordinator like
Speaker 3: Robert Solo was, but it's another when you have to
Speaker 3: take over and lead an organization. And you know, I
Speaker 3: didn't think Mike Frable was the best coordinator when he
Speaker 3: was with the Houston Texans, for example. US coaching material though,
Speaker 3: so you know, I mean he's made to be a
Speaker 3: head coach. He may not be made to be a coordinator.
Speaker 3: Some guys are made to be coordinators and maybe not
Speaker 3: head coaches. You know, I think we're still finding out
Speaker 3: what might be Daniel right now? How's that gonna? They
Speaker 3: got some turmoil oil? And so it's easy to do
Speaker 3: it when you're doing well, but when the adversity sets in,
Speaker 3: how do you handle it? And now you've got to
Speaker 3: figure out with Ben Johnson, how does he operate independent
Speaker 3: of Dan Campbell, independent of Brad Holmes, making personnel decisions,
Speaker 3: independent of all of the talent that has been aggregated
Speaker 3: over these last few years. Nobody's going to be as
Speaker 3: good without those elements. But if you're a real one,
Speaker 3: then eventually the cream rises to the top. And I
Speaker 3: think figuring out who the real ones are versus who
Speaker 3: the good coordinators are, I don't.
Speaker 4: Know how you do it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you just have to have a
Speaker 3: feel and as an organization when you interview, and you
Speaker 3: have to have guys who know how to read situations
Speaker 3: and kind of like feel out personalities in the in
Speaker 3: their interviewing process.
Speaker 4: Have you ever been involved in a coaching interview?
Speaker 3: Have you ever sat in been in a room where
Speaker 3: somebody was being interviewed and you had to and you
Speaker 3: kind of were trying to read the person in a
Speaker 3: short period of time like a card game.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: No, not at a high level in terms of like
Speaker 1: understanding the interviewing process and head coaches and those things.
Speaker 1: But what I can tell you know, I'll do this
Speaker 1: and just so everyone kind of understands, like point of reference. So, uh,
Speaker 1: doing my journey in Nation Football League, of the five
Speaker 1: coaches once a Hall of Famer Marty Schottenhammer, three were
Speaker 1: Super Bowl winners Mike Holmgren, Tom Coughlin, John Gruden, and
Speaker 1: then the fourth, I mean the fifth was Marty Schottenhamer
Speaker 1: who went two hundred wins. And so when I kind
Speaker 1: of compare head coaches to like that compilation of guys
Speaker 1: that were in front of the room, the one thing
Speaker 1: that those guys were they were extremely consistent. They were detailed,
Speaker 1: and they were disciplinarians when it came to the little things.
Speaker 1: And so they created a culture of accountability and so
Speaker 1: everyone always knew what the standards were and where the
Speaker 1: lines were when it came to what you needed to do,
Speaker 1: and if you didn't do that, then you're putting yourself
Speaker 1: in jeopardy in terms of being on the team. I
Speaker 1: think the hard thing to do is to look at
Speaker 1: someone who's a coordinator and project out how they're going
Speaker 1: to be as a head coach, because head coaching has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with being a coordinator. Coordinator, you're responsible
Speaker 1: for unit, but really you're a play caller. You're this
Speaker 1: guy is trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
Speaker 1: As the head coach, you are really managing people, and
Speaker 1: you're also the biggest problem solver. And sometimes as a coordinator,
Speaker 1: you may not have to answer or solve some of
Speaker 1: the problems that exist on other parts of the team
Speaker 1: because you're just responsible for your unit. And everyone that
Speaker 1: is a great play caller isn't comfortable with the confrontation
Speaker 1: that comes with being the head coach. What I would
Speaker 1: also kind of warn people, and I will use Ben
Speaker 1: Johnson as the example, but would make this point. So,
Speaker 1: Ben Johnson is a great play caller, but Ben Johnson
Speaker 1: has a lot of weapons and toys to play with.
Speaker 2: They have arguably the best offensive line in football. They
Speaker 2: have a former number of work pick at quarterback in
Speaker 2: Jerry Golf.
Speaker 1: They have a first round running back and Jamior Gibbs
Speaker 1: who everyone slept on. But you can see the closeness
Speaker 1: when he was at Georgia Tech and Alabama. You didn't
Speaker 1: think about the receivers on the outside, Amaras Saint Brown,
Speaker 1: who was underrated in the draft process, Sam la Port
Speaker 1: who was the second round pick, Jameson Williams was the
Speaker 1: first round pick. I mean, they have empty the clip
Speaker 1: when it came to surrounding the quarterback and the play
Speaker 1: caller with the best of the best, you take him
Speaker 1: out that environment, is he going to be able to
Speaker 1: do the same things somewhere else that doesn't have that setup.
Speaker 1: So that's the part where you're trying to separate the
Speaker 1: play caller from the guy that is able to really
Speaker 1: benefit from all the weapons that he had, because if
Speaker 1: you're not able to replicate exactly what he has, there's
Speaker 1: no guarantee that he's going to be the same guy
Speaker 1: that he's been probably's been in Detroit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think a big part of it is,
Speaker 3: I mean, look, you're you're really only as good as
Speaker 3: a quarterback. You can be only so good, but eventually,
Speaker 3: if you don't get the quarterback right, you just you
Speaker 3: can't stick around because you can't win.
Speaker 4: We know that.
Speaker 3: It's why teams make drastic decisions around quarterbacks. My guy
Speaker 3: over in Indianapolis is fighting and scrap because you know,
Speaker 3: he had Andrew Luck. Just shut it down. He went there,
Speaker 3: he had Andrew Luck and all of a sudden he didn't.
Speaker 3: And you see what happens, like you get caught up
Speaker 3: in this. Do we play to win? Do we do
Speaker 3: we take a step back and try to develop a quarterback?
Speaker 3: What if we win too many games? We you know,
Speaker 3: we're not in position to draft quarterbacks. It's a tricky
Speaker 3: tricky road, the quarterback situation. So wherever been I think
Speaker 3: wherever Ben Johnson. You know, when Ballard made that decision
Speaker 3: to go to Indianapolis, one of the things that appealed
Speaker 3: to him was he had a quarterback until he did
Speaker 3: in his second year, and so or his third year,
Speaker 3: I guess. So you know, even his first year, he
Speaker 3: didn't realize how beat up Andrew Luck was and didn't
Speaker 3: realize he wasn't going to have that year, and he
Speaker 3: thought the best thing is is to get Andrew Luck right.
Speaker 3: So let's just set them all year, get them physically right.
Speaker 3: If you're Ben Johnson and you're making decisions like you know,
Speaker 3: you look at the Jets, the roster looks good in
Speaker 3: many regards, but at quarterback you're empty right now, realistically,
Speaker 3: right you look at Caleb Williams and then Ben Johnson's
Speaker 3: got to go back. And this is why Bucky I
Speaker 3: remember asking this question of some scouts years ago, and
Speaker 3: actually some front office people.
Speaker 4: Why do you guys spend a lot of time?
Speaker 3: Why are you interviewing players who are not You don't
Speaker 3: have a need at quarterback, you don't have a need.
Speaker 4: A wide receiver. Why are you interviewing him?
Speaker 3: And the answer was simple, Hey, there's always free agency.
Speaker 3: Maybe this guy busts out and we want to look
Speaker 3: at him down the road. But if you're Ben Johnson
Speaker 3: and or you're an offensive coordinator that has or a
Speaker 3: defense coordinator that's got a shot to elevate to a
Speaker 3: head coaching role, I would imagine you want to talk
Speaker 3: to as many of these guys as possible, especially quarterbacks,
Speaker 3: because you look at Ben Johnson now, and he's got
Speaker 3: to look at Caleb Williams. He's going to look at
Speaker 3: the Tennessee situation like, you know, not great over there.
Speaker 3: You don't have your GM in place right now, You're
Speaker 3: gonna look at is Drake.
Speaker 4: May that guy.
Speaker 3: So if he did his work on Caleb Williams and
Speaker 3: Drake May I don't know that he did a deep dive.
Speaker 3: If he did, he's already got opinions on those guys.
Speaker 3: And that's important because your job's going to be tied
Speaker 3: to your quarterback.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and that's why it's also interesting that
Speaker 1: the Jags are on the list. Obviously I'm tied to
Speaker 1: the jack So knowing that team, well, a lot of
Speaker 1: it will depend on For Ben Johnson, we talk.
Speaker 2: About quarterback and quarterback being that critical piece.
Speaker 1: What's his opinion of Trevor Lawrence and coming off a
Speaker 1: situation where he just did a rehab project with Jered Goff,
Speaker 1: does he feel like he could orchestrate a similar deal
Speaker 1: with Trevor Lawrence. Look at it, assess it, say oh,
Speaker 1: if we just fixed this and that we have a
Speaker 1: quarterback that can play at the top five, top ten level,
Speaker 1: and that will be enough with the rest of the
Speaker 1: roster to get us over the hump.
Speaker 2: Because one thing that we're seeing in the league now, the.
Speaker 1: Patience is definitely not there for head coaches and you
Speaker 1: can try and trick it when it comes to getting
Speaker 1: contract extensions, and all that. But we're even seeing, particularly
Speaker 1: on the gym side, where Ran Carthurin has just signed
Speaker 1: an extension with four editions of years. That contract doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: People are pay to get out of it. They don't care.
Speaker 1: You have to be able to jump into place and
Speaker 1: win right away while you're rebuilding. Ben Johnson has to
Speaker 1: be able to do that. And that's why I would
Speaker 1: say the most important part of the Ben Johnson question,
Speaker 1: it's not only like the play calling and that stuff,
Speaker 1: is who's coming with him in terms of his staff
Speaker 1: and if he has the juice where he's gonna bring
Speaker 1: a personnel man with him, who's coming with him to
Speaker 1: reenact or recreate what they did in Detroit? Because everyone
Speaker 1: wants a little bit of that sauce. Right, It looks
Speaker 1: fun in Detroit, tough and they're grizzled and when you
Speaker 1: look at war Feel, you see how the environment is,
Speaker 1: so everyone wants to recreate that. But for Ben Johnson,
Speaker 1: who are the people he can bring with him to
Speaker 1: recreate what has been so successful in Detroit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's some of that. Bucky's ownership too.
Speaker 3: Like you just talked about patients, Hey, impatient ownership is
Speaker 3: the number one culprit when it comes to keeping a
Speaker 3: team in flux and havoc and.
Speaker 4: Understanding who your ownership is and.
Speaker 3: Feeling like, you know, will this person support me, Will
Speaker 3: they have the faith? Will they have the patience to
Speaker 3: tune out the noise, because there's gonna be noise. If
Speaker 3: you're not successful, there's gonna be noise. If you're successful,
Speaker 3: there's noise. The Houston Texans are in the playoffs. They
Speaker 3: won a division for the second time in a row.
Speaker 3: The offense, you know, took a little step back this year.
Speaker 3: Fans in Houston want Ben Slow, want Bobby Slowing the
Speaker 3: offense coordinator. There's a huge contingency of fans who want
Speaker 3: him gone. Just fire the play car if you don't
Speaker 3: like the way things are going. This is all the
Speaker 3: hottest prospects in the coaching carousel. Last year a guy
Speaker 3: who got CJ. Stroud looking good. The offense was looking good.
Speaker 3: This year, the protection is not as good. CJ regresses
Speaker 3: a slow. It doesn't have the same feel, whatever the
Speaker 3: case may be. Instead of it being, you know, it's
Speaker 3: just a down year. Let's see what happens in year three.
Speaker 3: You got people want to say, let's go get rid
Speaker 3: of it's out. Let's go to the next one, on
Speaker 3: to the next one. And you have to have ownership.
Speaker 3: Who doesn't listen, who tunes out social media, tunes out
Speaker 3: talk shows, tunes out the podcasts, and who is bought
Speaker 3: in with the building, Like the building has to be
Speaker 3: moving in a direction that is independent from any outside noise.
Speaker 3: And that seems easy, but I think it's increasingly harder
Speaker 3: and harder with the amplification of all of these voices
Speaker 3: now that are typically a lot more negative. When you're
Speaker 3: not doing well, it's hard to have. We're a microwave society, man,
Speaker 3: so a guy like bench, you know. So on one hand,
Speaker 3: we're microwave society. Bobby Slock is not a hot prospect anymore.
Speaker 3: It took one year and now he's kind of rebuild himself.
Speaker 3: But it's also a microwave society, and we'll get rid
Speaker 3: of you quick. You know what you can You can
Speaker 3: get there fast. You can become a hot name fast,
Speaker 3: but you can become cold fast. And they, like you
Speaker 3: said with Rand Carton, with Jared Mayo, with with a
Speaker 3: lot of these guys, now these teams are ownership groups,
Speaker 3: are just saying we don't think you're the right guy
Speaker 3: onto the next one.
Speaker 4: And I mean it's good for it's.
Speaker 3: Great if you got a big contract, you're chilling for
Speaker 3: three or four years, But no one wants to do that.
Speaker 4: Rand don't want to just sit and Lance will.
Speaker 3: I will, but I'm me and Rand are probably built different,
Speaker 3: so I'm sure he wants to still be out there
Speaker 3: grinding and doing that.
Speaker 4: But if you want to mess.
Speaker 3: Around and write me off, of scratch me off for a
Speaker 3: three or four year deal and to get rid of me,
Speaker 3: I mean, let me know.
Speaker 4: But no, I feel bad for those guys.
Speaker 3: I feel bad for dry Mail, But I also understand
Speaker 3: that Elliott Wolf and and Roberts guys, and so Manzo
Speaker 3: high Smith. They like, if you're with the quarterback or
Speaker 3: a head coach Bucky that you don't think is the
Speaker 3: right guy.
Speaker 4: The longer you wait, the more your job is potentially
Speaker 4: in danger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wasting time.
Speaker 1: And you know, the common denominator is really the quarterback
Speaker 1: and the quarterback play.
Speaker 2: We've seen it.
Speaker 1: So girod Mayo has the young quarterback, but then ownership
Speaker 1: feels like, man, we need to make sure we give
Speaker 1: the young quarterback what he needs to flourish and we
Speaker 1: can build the rest of the team around the guy
Speaker 1: that's really linked in with the quarterback. We're also seeing
Speaker 1: the failures and look, let's be real, Ballot Ballet went
Speaker 1: all in on Anthony Richardson, right, and so now they
Speaker 1: gonna hit a crossroads, you know, this offseason. They have
Speaker 1: to make a decision because Shane Stakeen and Chris Ballat,
Speaker 1: they have their jobs on the line. Do they continue
Speaker 1: to believe in Anthony Richardson or do they go and
Speaker 1: get someone or hand the ball to Joe Flacco Right now,
Speaker 1: I say, Joe, I need you to get us. We
Speaker 1: need to get to the play so then we can
Speaker 1: get the extension kind of build it the way that
Speaker 1: we want.
Speaker 2: But that is a legitimate thing. And if you don't
Speaker 2: have a quarterback.
Speaker 1: And I do wonder this because and I'm not being
Speaker 1: Debbie Downer when.
Speaker 2: I say this, but hey man, the.
Speaker 1: Way Cayley Williams look this year, beyond the numbers, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying he's a coach killer, but I have some
Speaker 1: concerns about it because the perception is that he's going
Speaker 1: to be Pat Mahomes two point oh. He's the guy
Speaker 1: that whatever, and the coaches are messing in him up. Lance,
Speaker 1: I'm just concerned that maybe he's not what many of
Speaker 1: us thought he was going to be when he came
Speaker 1: into the.
Speaker 2: National Football League.
Speaker 4: I am too.
Speaker 3: I have my concerns with the draft me. You can
Speaker 3: read in my profile. The tape did not look like
Speaker 3: all the generational stuff I had heard. You know, That's
Speaker 3: why used in generational. We got to stop like I
Speaker 3: used it. I probably used it Lawrence, but I thought
Speaker 3: I actually had one, and I'm very hesitant to use
Speaker 3: that phrase. But we got to stop throwing the word
Speaker 3: generational out there for all that like, there was nothing
Speaker 3: generational about Caleb Williams take.
Speaker 4: He made nice plays, but he also hung out of
Speaker 4: the ball too long, did not throw at the anticipation.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of football stuff that we already
Speaker 3: knew if you've done this long enough and you have Bucky.
Speaker 3: There's certain things that take a lot longer to coach
Speaker 3: out of a player, especially quarterbacks. So you know, with
Speaker 3: offensive linemen it can be you know, lunging, it could
Speaker 3: be different things with outside hands, with your punch.
Speaker 4: I mean, every position has things that takes.
Speaker 3: Longer to coach out of you, and for quarterbacks, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: those can be the toughest because you're under such duress.
Speaker 3: And so the generational tag all that did. All that
Speaker 3: did was put it in. I don't think the Bears
Speaker 3: necessarily thought he was generational, but that tag is out there,
Speaker 3: and now Bears fans have these expectations, and like you said,
Speaker 3: it feeds into a negative concept.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, based on what I saw from Caleb,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of things.
Speaker 3: I still like a lot about Caleb, but I also
Speaker 3: thought it was going to be a process for him
Speaker 3: to break some of those bad hats. Jayden Daniels I
Speaker 3: thought had the best tape any quarterback last year. It
Speaker 3: translated he didn't both oh Nicks had second best tape
Speaker 3: of anybody.
Speaker 4: But then I got a little scared when I saw
Speaker 4: him a senior ball. I was thought, hey, it's not
Speaker 4: as great there.
Speaker 3: He didn't feel like he had the same juice on
Speaker 3: the field watching him throw at the combine. But also
Speaker 3: in the back of my mind thought, man, if he
Speaker 3: could somehow get with Sean Payton, they would be a
Speaker 3: perfect match. And I just didn't think it could happen
Speaker 3: because of the draft picks. I just thought they got
Speaker 3: no second round pick. Seawan's not going to take him
Speaker 3: this early, so Bo Nicks, you know, won't, won't go
Speaker 3: to that team, and then he did, and then Michael
Speaker 3: Pennix went early. And so now you know, now everyone's
Speaker 3: job is on the line because every one of those
Speaker 3: guys is playing now. And Will Levis, you know, did
Speaker 3: did he put he was a second round he was
Speaker 3: the second round picker?
Speaker 4: Did that? Did he kill ran carthin Is?
Speaker 3: You know Ballard with Ballard had to make this move,
Speaker 3: he had to do something a quarterback, so he went Richardson.
Speaker 3: But Richardson is a development It always was a developmental
Speaker 3: prospect with high upside traits, but a lot of work
Speaker 3: to be done. And then they lost almost his entire
Speaker 3: rookie year to an injury, so you didn't get that
Speaker 3: development in the first year.
Speaker 4: I mean, man, these quarterbacks, it makes me nervous. Is
Speaker 4: talking about this. I'm like, man, well it does.
Speaker 2: But I think here's the lesson to be learned.
Speaker 1: Right, So we can talk about Will Levis being a
Speaker 1: second round quarterback. I mean you can even talk about
Speaker 1: like Brock Perdy being a seventh rounder, Like we can
Speaker 1: talk about value and it's a great find in all this,
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, Lance, no one
Speaker 1: cares whoever you try to under center. They are judging
Speaker 1: him based on is he a franchise quarterback or not.
Speaker 1: And so as a decision maker team building, you're almost
Speaker 1: better that if you don't like your guy in the
Speaker 1: first round, don't waste your time getting someone else. Just
Speaker 1: pun on it, find a veteran because no matter who
Speaker 1: you put in. We saw in Atlanta with Desmond Ritter.
Speaker 1: You've seen it and time again, like if you don't
Speaker 1: find the right guy early, they're going to move on.
Speaker 1: And it's one of those things that I love the
Speaker 1: draft process, but we end up doing our sales a
Speaker 1: disservice by.
Speaker 2: Taking some of these developmental guys.
Speaker 3: And that's absolutely And you know, Indianapolis was caught in
Speaker 3: a spot where they had gone older quarterback, older quarterback,
Speaker 3: older quarterback. And I remember asking Chris Ballad on the
Speaker 3: floor of the combine he was he was looking at
Speaker 3: Richardson and he made a comment about, you know, how
Speaker 3: talented he was or just you know, he'd made some throws.
Speaker 4: And I said, but you can't possibly take him. You
Speaker 4: got to win, and he made a comment that I
Speaker 4: had a lot of respect for.
Speaker 3: He said, I'm going to do whatever I think is
Speaker 3: best for the Colts, and if I get fired, I
Speaker 3: get fired. But I gotta make moves that I think
Speaker 3: for So even if a guy takes two or three
Speaker 3: years and I'm not still here, if it's best for
Speaker 3: mister ursay and it's best for the Colts, and we
Speaker 3: develop it and he becomes a good player even after
Speaker 3: I'm gone, then that's that's what my job is to do.
Speaker 4: And you want your.
Speaker 3: General managers not trying to cover their own asses, but
Speaker 3: as head coaches, you want them trying to make moves
Speaker 3: that are best for the organization. But when you're firing
Speaker 3: these guys so fast, how do you not run? You know,
Speaker 3: how do you not operate in cya mode? And another
Speaker 3: point that you made about quarterbacks and interesting trend is
Speaker 3: I think developing and it speaks to what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: The second round is becoming like that's a dead round
Speaker 3: for quarterbacks. If you if a guy thinks, if a
Speaker 3: team thinks you can be a quarterback, we're taking you
Speaker 3: in one.
Speaker 4: And if we don't think your.
Speaker 3: Face of the franchise and we don't think you're a franchise.
Speaker 3: We're taking you in three. And the Kindy picket.
Speaker 4: Draft was one guy in the first and everyone else
Speaker 4: went in the.
Speaker 3: Three Matt Corral, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, they don't even
Speaker 3: mess with the second round on quarterbacks. And I get
Speaker 3: it because guess what, you still get fired off a
Speaker 3: second round quarterback.
Speaker 4: You still second round still have that juice. It will
Speaker 4: get you fired where third rounders are like, eh, they're backups.
Speaker 3: They're backups and maybe we scratch off a lottery ticket
Speaker 3: and get lucky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the promise of it is literally the draft
Speaker 1: position kind of sets you up to fail if you
Speaker 1: don't hit it on the breakout.
Speaker 2: So let's take a break. Lance. When we come back,
Speaker 2: we will preview the game of the week.
Speaker 1: All right, it's time for Game of the Week, presented
Speaker 1: by Draft Kings Sportsbook. This week it's the Green Bay
Speaker 1: Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles. The spread is minus
Speaker 1: four and a half favorite the Eagles the over unders
Speaker 1: forty five.
Speaker 2: And a half.
Speaker 1: And Lance, we just spent that first segment talking about
Speaker 1: quarterbacks and quarterback play and those things, and.
Speaker 2: Here we have two quarterbacks. If Jalen Hurst plays that are.
Speaker 1: Really intriguing, really been developed in different ways, but they're really.
Speaker 2: Critical to both team's success.
Speaker 1: When we talk about the Philadelphia Eagles and the running
Speaker 1: game and all the different things that they bring, look
Speaker 1: they bring to the table. What stands out to you
Speaker 1: about the Eagles in this contest and what they got
Speaker 1: to get done on offense?
Speaker 3: Well, I think the Eagles for me has been you know,
Speaker 3: the play of Quinnon Mitchell so raggedy in the secondary
Speaker 3: last year in pass pro, and he's really added to
Speaker 3: see a rookie ad that element of stability on the
Speaker 3: back end. I think that's that's a big part of it.
Speaker 3: But I mean it starts in the ends with Saquon Barkley.
Speaker 3: This has been the year of the running back and
Speaker 3: maybe no one more my draft grades. I joked that
Speaker 3: my draft grades are looking a whole lot better this year,
Speaker 3: Bucky on guys like Sam Darnald, Like, oh see, maybe
Speaker 3: I wasn't wrong on Sam Donald.
Speaker 4: You know they took about five years, six years, Oh
Speaker 4: maybe I wasn't. You know Saquon.
Speaker 3: I had this unbelievably high grade on Saquon and we
Speaker 3: didn't see it ever. Materialize in the Giants, but you
Speaker 3: see it this year. So I think the addition of
Speaker 3: that big time running back and Saquon Barkley takes a
Speaker 3: tremendous amount of pressure off of Hurts, off of the
Speaker 3: play caller, off of the team to generate, to find
Speaker 3: a way to generate offense. When Hurts isn't throwing the ball. Well,
Speaker 3: you got a guy now that you can throw swing
Speaker 3: passes to, or you can give the ball to him
Speaker 3: twenty five times, and Sequon can go win a game.
Speaker 3: And I think we you know, there's been I get
Speaker 3: the analytics behind the running back arguments over the years
Speaker 3: and historically, yes, you can find running backs outside of
Speaker 3: the first round.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 3: But when you have a really good running back, it
Speaker 3: makes everyone's life easier. Kyron Williams makes things easier on
Speaker 3: the rams. He wasn't even a it was a Day
Speaker 3: three pick. I don't care where you're picked. When you
Speaker 3: have a guy that can control tempo, they can get
Speaker 3: tough yards and they can score touchdowns in a variety
Speaker 3: of ways. I think it's it's what has turned Detroit
Speaker 3: into Detroit with their two headed monster. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, in a way the two headed monster of
Speaker 3: Hurts and Saquon Barkley. It makes them a more consistent team.
Speaker 3: They're less likely to have the huge ups and downs.
Speaker 3: So I think what I love about him is that
Speaker 3: it hurts him playing well.
Speaker 4: It doesn't anymore. It could be a saque.
Speaker 2: Game, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, and I think that's the thing
Speaker 1: that everyone has to understand, Like the more balanced you are,
Speaker 1: the ability to have the running game.
Speaker 2: And it's not lost on me that most.
Speaker 1: Of the teams in the playoffs have really, really good
Speaker 1: workhorse running backs that can alleviate some of the pressure
Speaker 1: on them. These two teams we're talking about Phil Eagles
Speaker 1: with Sayore Barkley, but the Green Bay Packers having Josh
Speaker 1: Jacobs who had nearly fourteen hundred yards and gave them
Speaker 1: the juice that they needed. It alleviated some of the
Speaker 1: pressure on Jordan Love to have to do everything. And
Speaker 1: when you have the ability to run the ball, what
Speaker 1: it does is it creates they play opportunities on the perimeter,
Speaker 1: whether it's the deep ball off play action, whether it's
Speaker 1: a tight boxes we're going to stretch from side to
Speaker 1: side with the screens and the swing game all of
Speaker 1: those things matter, and to me, when we look at
Speaker 1: the eas the Eagles can get away with Jalen Hurst
Speaker 1: and not having his a game, the Packers can't. The
Speaker 1: Packers need Jordan Love to play at a high level
Speaker 1: because all eyes are going to be on Jordan Love.
Speaker 1: We know Vig Fangio is going to try and minimize
Speaker 1: his impact. Jordan Love is going to have to make
Speaker 1: the Eagles pay when they either load the box or
Speaker 1: when they have those opportunities to attack down the field.
Speaker 1: But let me say this, and we said it in
Speaker 1: the draft two years ago when Jalen Carter was coming
Speaker 1: out prior to the all field issues cloud near evaluation.
Speaker 1: That's why you need to grade the player on tape.
Speaker 1: You can put like the little addendums about his character,
Speaker 1: but Jalen Clark is exactly who we thought he was
Speaker 1: going to be when he came into the league.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I remember, he was my top rated player
Speaker 3: in that draft, and just Jeffrey Simmons. I remember he
Speaker 3: had some stuff also, he was injured and I had
Speaker 3: him way up there as well when.
Speaker 4: He was coming out.
Speaker 3: Those are two guys that look physically dominant and play
Speaker 3: physically dominant on tape, and once you throw those guys
Speaker 3: in an environment of professional football, with professional weight training,
Speaker 3: professional nutrition, if you have any desire to be great,
Speaker 3: you're more than likely going to grasp that opportunity.
Speaker 4: And once that happens, the traits and the talent explode.
Speaker 3: And so it should not be a surprise that Jalen
Speaker 3: Carter is doing what he's doing because it was all
Speaker 3: on tape. I mean, he was the most talented prospect
Speaker 3: in that draft. You understand why fell, but you also
Speaker 3: understand why a team like Philadelphia said, ooh, we're going
Speaker 3: to move up and get the best player in a
Speaker 3: draft and we'll figure out the other stuff because we're
Speaker 3: not passing on this opportunity, this talent. You get burned,
Speaker 3: You can get burned by it from time to time,
Speaker 3: but at this point it looks like in you know,
Speaker 3: an unbelievable steal and one of the catalysts for you know,
Speaker 3: a chance to make another Super Bowl run, because frankly,
Speaker 3: you look at the injuries that Detroit has and it's
Speaker 3: it's astounding that they are not only still standing but thriving.
Speaker 4: But can they do it through the rest of the playoffs.
Speaker 2: We have to.
Speaker 3: See especially when you look at the defensive talent on
Speaker 3: that Eagles roster, that is that's something that is you know,
Speaker 3: is going to make life a little bit more difficult
Speaker 3: for anyone playing them this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so okay, so who you got in this one? Lance,
Speaker 1: Because I'm looking at the Packers the ability to turn
Speaker 1: it over.
Speaker 2: I like their defense.
Speaker 1: You can't cant out the Packers' ability to create a
Speaker 1: big play in the kicking game. Because Rich Pasati one
Speaker 1: of the best special teams coach coaches out there.
Speaker 2: They can they can make the game kind of money.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, and I've told people this before,
Speaker 1: sometimes there's more pressure on the home team in these
Speaker 1: playoff games because when you're the home team, if you
Speaker 1: happen to fall behind.
Speaker 2: All the inks, all the anxiety you can feel in
Speaker 2: the stadium.
Speaker 1: So to me, it is all about the Eagles having
Speaker 1: to jump out on them from the jump, because if
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, They're fans will turn on them.
Speaker 4: I just I don't see the Eagles losing this. I
Speaker 4: think the Eagles win. I think they cover.
Speaker 3: I think you know, I look at this and I think, Josh,
Speaker 3: it's going to be a lot harder to run between
Speaker 3: the tackles, and that's been one of the magic of
Speaker 3: Josh Jacobs and Green Bay is that they've been able
Speaker 3: to run between the tackles and he can go break
Speaker 3: tackles and extend runs. But I think that Josh Jacobs
Speaker 3: the action make it spilled a little bit wider.
Speaker 4: I don't know if the wide receivers from Green Bay,
Speaker 4: if you really have a group.
Speaker 3: Of guys that can take over, I do know you
Speaker 3: have it with the Eagles, and I just think Eagles
Speaker 3: have been there.
Speaker 4: They've done that.
Speaker 3: They've got two great running backs, but one I think
Speaker 3: is a little bit better with Sakuon Barkley. And then
Speaker 3: when you look at the trenches, I give the trench
Speaker 3: advantage to the Eagles.
Speaker 4: So I think there's a lot of things flowing in
Speaker 4: Eagles favor.
Speaker 3: I know that you know, Jalen Hurts just made it
Speaker 3: back from the concussions, so that's obviously something you have
Speaker 3: to keep an eye on. But as we've talked about previously,
Speaker 3: you mentioned Jordan Love, Jordan Loves got to have a
Speaker 3: big game.
Speaker 4: Jalen Hurts doesn't have to have a big game to
Speaker 4: win this one.
Speaker 3: So I think there's too much right now, there's too
Speaker 3: much pressure on his should I think there's no margin
Speaker 3: for error on Green Bay side, where there is some
Speaker 3: margin freyre where you still win if you're Philadelphia.
Speaker 4: That's one of the reasons I really like Philly here.
Speaker 4: I like them to win by a touchdown or more.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, so we're both gonna take things because
Speaker 1: I just went on that riff about them being there.
Speaker 2: But there are more talented team. They're a team that
Speaker 2: should move on. They have it going. Let's just see
Speaker 2: if they can handle the pressure of having to deal
Speaker 2: with it. In the link download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app.
Speaker 2: Now use code MTS.
Speaker 1: New customers can bet five bucks to get one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars in bonus bets if your bet wins.
Speaker 2: Only are DraftKings Sportsbook with code MTS. The crown is yours.
Speaker 1: So Lance, right before we go, you know, we got
Speaker 1: to talk about these college football playoff games. We have
Speaker 1: Ohio State take it on Texas. I know everyone in
Speaker 1: your state is really hook them horns.
Speaker 2: They're excited about the law.
Speaker 4: Not everyone, not everyone, Bucky. Oh, I mean, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of Aggie's in the state. There's a lot of
Speaker 4: people I don't like Texas.
Speaker 1: I just felt like all you guys would have your
Speaker 1: horns up ready to go because the school of the State. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I feel like, Ohi's day Texas. That's gonna be
Speaker 1: talked about. And then Notre Dame versus Penn State, let's
Speaker 1: start on that. When Notre Dame Penn State, when you
Speaker 1: look at that game and you look at the talent
Speaker 1: on both teams, what stands out to you?
Speaker 3: Well, I think Drew Aller. You know, it's a battle
Speaker 3: of the quarterbacks for me. Drew Aller had a nice
Speaker 3: bounce back year this year. You look at Riley Leonard
Speaker 3: and Riley is one of those classic Riley and Will
Speaker 3: Howard have some things in common in terms of how
Speaker 3: tough they both are their gamers. They make big plays
Speaker 3: at big times. The games don't get too big for him.
Speaker 4: I think Leonard is a better runner than Will Howard.
Speaker 3: But you know, the question is going to be can
Speaker 3: Drew Aller beat Notre Dame from the pocket and then
Speaker 3: can Riley Leonard? Can he stress that really talented defensive
Speaker 3: front and pass rush led by Duel Carter from Penn State.
Speaker 3: Is he going to be able to stress those guys
Speaker 3: with his legs. I think this has been a wonderful
Speaker 3: year for Marcus Freeman. I'm just so impressed. They lost
Speaker 3: a couple of starters on the offensive line early in
Speaker 3: the year, got better and better and better and better.
Speaker 3: They were on the short list of our teams that
Speaker 3: we consider putting into uh you know, the the Joe
Speaker 3: Moore Awards semi finalists. They really improved over the over
Speaker 3: the course of the year. They're running a ball well.
Speaker 3: I think defensively they found their their groove. So there's
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons to like Notre Dame. But I
Speaker 3: think the thing that that concerns me the most is
Speaker 3: how will Notre Dame's offensive line hold up against the
Speaker 3: rush and.
Speaker 4: Then can Notre Dame stop Drew Aller, who I think
Speaker 4: is built for games like this.
Speaker 3: You don't always see it, but I think this is
Speaker 3: a game that is the weather's going to be good,
Speaker 3: you know, it's.
Speaker 4: Not going to be cold. I think I think it.
Speaker 4: I think it benefits Penn State.
Speaker 3: I know Penn State is like I think Notre Dame
Speaker 3: is a small favorite because of how they're playing, but
Speaker 3: this is a very even game and I lean a
Speaker 3: little bit to Penn State.
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, it's funny because I look at Notre
Speaker 1: Dame and I will say that you can see the
Speaker 1: work that they've done since they'd lost in.
Speaker 2: Those BCS games.
Speaker 1: You know, over the previous decade, how they've become a bigger,
Speaker 1: more physical team.
Speaker 2: And I'm being honest, like when I watched the old line.
Speaker 1: And didn't get together before the game, and you hear
Speaker 1: their leader talk about, this is the f you game.
Speaker 1: We're gonna run it down their throat and they're gonna
Speaker 1: do all these things. Notre Dame has an edge to
Speaker 1: them that didn't exist. Marcus Freeman has really done a
Speaker 1: really good job of kind of creating this culture where
Speaker 1: they kind of have some tough guys. In terms of
Speaker 1: the way that they're going. Penn State is I would
Speaker 1: say more dynamic on defense, but really, man, these are
Speaker 1: mirrored images in terms of the way these teams are built.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Notre Dame in this one over
Speaker 1: in Penn State, and I don't really have a reason,
Speaker 1: because look, he comes down to the quarterback play whether
Speaker 1: you have Riley Leonard or Drew Allett. But there's something
Speaker 1: about the way Notre Dame is getting after it, and
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna kind of say, I'm gonna say they
Speaker 1: kind of get it done. Maybe it's the hype video.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the Rick Ross hype video that they put out.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the young Jezy thing that they put out
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. Their social team has kind of
Speaker 1: swayed me. So that's why I'm going with Notre Dame.
Speaker 4: That's good enough. That's good enough for me.
Speaker 2: It's a toss up, all right, Let's go Ohio State Texas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ohio State is being the team that many of
Speaker 1: us expected them to be when they showed up this season.
Speaker 1: Everyone talks about the twenty million dollars payroll. It didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily come to fruition when they lost to Oregon in
Speaker 1: Michigan during the regular season, but in the playoffs they
Speaker 1: had clearly been the best team.
Speaker 2: How do you think this one goes down?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, on paper, this should be Ohio State.
Speaker 3: You look at it and Texas. No one's played like
Speaker 3: Ohio State has. I mean, they stopped a good Tennessee defense,
Speaker 3: they made them look like they were playing in mud,
Speaker 3: and then you know, they completely dominated that Oregon team.
Speaker 3: And so you look at You've got the most talented
Speaker 3: receiver in all college football who's a freshman over there.
Speaker 3: But you got three NFL wide receivers at Ohio State
Speaker 3: who are going to be on the field at the
Speaker 3: same time. Two NFL running backs at Ohio State. You've
Speaker 3: got you know, you've got a lot of but the
Speaker 3: problem is you've had a lot of injuries.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: And NFL left tackle is not going to be playing
Speaker 3: because he's hurt. An NFL center is not going to
Speaker 3: be playing because he's hurt and out for the year.
Speaker 3: So it's this weird you know, they tell you that
Speaker 3: you went into trenches. Well, you know Texas is beat
Speaker 3: up on the offensive line as well. They're not one
Speaker 3: hundred percent healthy. So we got to see what the
Speaker 3: right tackle looks like with Williams and see if Banks
Speaker 3: can hold up over the course of a game because
Speaker 3: he's had some problems holding up because he's got a
Speaker 3: nagging injury.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Their center, Jake Major, has made it back. But if
Speaker 3: you want to talk about the trenches, it favors Texas
Speaker 3: because Texas has a lot of NFL guys up front,
Speaker 3: Like they've got real talent up front.
Speaker 4: And I think that's you know, that's where we're going
Speaker 4: to have to see.
Speaker 3: Can they pressure that makeshift line of Ohio State so
Speaker 3: that the wide receivers don't have time to get open
Speaker 3: because if they, if Will Howard has time to throw,
Speaker 3: it's a rap for Texas.
Speaker 4: You just it's a rap for anything. You just can't.
Speaker 4: You can't beat that level of talent.
Speaker 3: Out there, certainly not man to man, so you have
Speaker 3: to play a lot of his own potentially.
Speaker 4: And then on the other side, is quin yours.
Speaker 3: Is he that guy like I don't think he show
Speaker 3: them that he's that guy that can step up. He
Speaker 3: couldn't beat Kirby Smart in two times they had a
Speaker 3: chance to beat Kirby Smart Georgia, and that's and that's
Speaker 3: a weak Georgia team relative to most Georgia teams, and
Speaker 3: quinn Ewers just couldn't step up and get that done.
Speaker 3: Can he finally really rise to the occasion in a
Speaker 3: spotlight game. If he can't, you have no chance. Now,
Speaker 3: Michigan or Michigan. It was not a good offensive game
Speaker 3: when they beat Oha State, but they took that game
Speaker 3: and put it in in a phone booth.
Speaker 4: And I think Ohio State maybe learn something. We're not
Speaker 4: that team. We can act like we're not that team.
Speaker 4: Well we are that team, but you got to be
Speaker 4: who you are.
Speaker 3: And if Texas get them to try to play a
Speaker 3: smashmouth game of tech, can get the running game going
Speaker 3: with Wisner. If they can get their running and going
Speaker 3: on the play action game with Matthew Golden opens up,
Speaker 3: they've got a shot. But I mean, I just I
Speaker 3: have to see Quinn yours. Can he take a game
Speaker 3: by the throat and make it his a game of
Speaker 3: this magnitude?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Will Howard doesn't really have to.
Speaker 3: He just has to get the ball the guys in
Speaker 3: space and let them do their things. Quinn Yours is
Speaker 3: gonna have to go win this game, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if he has that juice Bucky, I really don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it's funny because Ohio State is the most down
Speaker 1: to the team and so really, man, if this was
Speaker 1: a gold match, all they need to do is just
Speaker 1: take the three wood out, just hit it in the
Speaker 1: fairway and let their playmakers go. We saw what happened
Speaker 1: when Oregon decided they're gonna let Jeremiah Smith have one
Speaker 1: on one coverage. He absolutely cooked them in a quarter
Speaker 1: and a half and then open it up for the
Speaker 1: rest of the playmakers to go busy, to get busy.
Speaker 1: For Texas, it is about Quinn Ewers finding a way
Speaker 1: to kind of deal with Jim Knowle's defense because Knowles
Speaker 1: is going to bring some funny and some different looks
Speaker 1: at him and he's going to have to be able
Speaker 1: to deliver. And for Quinn Yours, to me, this is
Speaker 1: an opportunity game. This is an opportunity for him to
Speaker 1: kind of put some respect back on his name as
Speaker 1: it relates to the NFL Draft, because at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the season we were talking about him maybe being
Speaker 1: the QB one of the class that went away despite
Speaker 1: him having a really good game against Michigan and some
Speaker 1: other moments. If he has a great game against Ohio State,
Speaker 1: it changes the narrative about his game and his potential.
Speaker 1: That's why there's a lot of pressure on him. But
Speaker 1: in spite of that, I think Ohio State Beatson because
Speaker 1: Texas barely beat Arizona State and really should have lost
Speaker 1: to Arizona State. This is Ohio State's to win. I
Speaker 1: think we see Ohio State advance to the championship game.
Speaker 4: When you get a couple of coaches who need that
Speaker 4: big game win too.
Speaker 3: Sark I think are great coaches, I really do. But
Speaker 3: it's funny because some narratives build around Sark can't win
Speaker 3: these big games. Right, he lost the SEC championship game.
Speaker 3: He couldn't beat Georgia the first time around. You know,
Speaker 3: last year he lost in that game against Michigan and
Speaker 3: the playoffs, and Sark's done a really good job of
Speaker 3: building a program.
Speaker 4: But this is an opportunity game for Sark as well
Speaker 4: and for Ryan Day.
Speaker 3: Hey, you win the title and you wipe out you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know that you can completely wipe out the
Speaker 3: loss of Michigan. I'm not sure Ohio State fans, I
Speaker 3: don't know if it works that way for them, But
Speaker 3: I mean for me, I'm like, man, Ryan Day, win,
Speaker 3: the big game thing is gone. If you win this game,
Speaker 3: you still have to come. You used to have to
Speaker 3: be Michigan.
Speaker 1: But right now they look ridiculous when they talk about
Speaker 1: like potentially firing Ryan Day when all he has done
Speaker 1: is just.
Speaker 2: When and when and when, with the exception of you know,
Speaker 2: the Michigan game.
Speaker 1: So it'd be great we'll get a chance to talk
Speaker 1: about it after it's all said and done. I appreciate
Speaker 1: you jumping on quickly to talk about Ben Johnson, to
Speaker 1: preview the game of the week, and to talk about
Speaker 1: college football playoffs.
Speaker 2: I'm Bucket Brucks, just Land Ze. This was moved to six.
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: H m hmmm yeah, mhm