1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, did you celebrate July fourth? Of course, it's 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: a really important day in history. July fourth, two thousand 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: and twelves two thousand twelve. You mean seventy right, American 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: Independence Day? Oh? I mean, yeah, that's important too, But 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve was a much more important day, 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: more important than the founding of our country. Yeah, this 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: is like cosmically important, all right, I'll buy what happened 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: on July four, two thousand and twelve. July four, two 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: twelve is the Higgs Dependence Day. It's the day we 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: announced the discovery of the Higgs boson. Did we beat 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: the British to it? Or it was our reunion with Britain? 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: We did it together. Hi am Jorge. I'm a cartoonists 13 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: and the creator of PhD comics. Hi. I'm Daniel Whitson. 14 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist, and the only particle I've ever 15 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: helped discover was the Higgs boson. Oh nice, I've discovered 16 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: lots of particles. There's plenty of dust particles in my house, 17 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: none of which are particularly interesting. Some of them are big, 18 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: but not Higgs. But welcome to our podcast. Daniel and 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Jorge explain the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio 20 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 1: in which we talk about all the crazy and amazing 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: things that we find in our universe. We take you 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: to the forefront of knowledge where scientists are trying to 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: figure out how everything works, and we show you how 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: you can understand it to how your curiosity is the 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: same as theirs. Yeah, and we like to talk about 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: not just the things that scientists discover and what we 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: understand about them, but we also like to talk about 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: how they were discovered because we think this it's a 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: very important part of understanding science and how science works, 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: and what science knows and what it can know. That's right. 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes particle physics is presented is like a grand edifice 32 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: that we've put together all at once, But really it's 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: sort of like a sloppy house of cars that we've 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: been building bit by bit over the last hundred years, 35 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: and each piece was added painfully and with great effort 36 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: due to lots of theorists and experimentalists working hard. And 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: usually there are fun, juicy political dramas along the way. 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: I guess it's made out of particles, the house of particles. 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: Everything's made out of particles. Man Or Field, you did 40 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: a TV series called House of Particles. There's definitely enough 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: drama in particle physics to fuel a whole soap opera. 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Hopefully nobody gets pushed into a train or anything like that. 43 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: But more than that, we want you to understand that 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: this idea of particle physics, these things that we understand, 45 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: are not just some theoretical concept, but they're slowly built 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: up from actual discoveries, experiments. We've done, things that we 47 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: forced the universe to reveal, and it's those experiments, those 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: actual discoveries, those confrontations with nature that formed the foundation 49 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: of that understanding. Yeah, because I think it's easy, once 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: you know something to just forget that you at some 51 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: point didn't know something. You know, like, think back when 52 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: you're a kid and you didn't know about the universe 53 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: or galaxies or planets. What were you thinking, Like, what 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: was your view of the world. That's right, Like, before 55 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: I knew that bananas were gross, I thought like, hey, 56 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: maybe they were okay, But now I can never go 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: back to a universe in which bananas could be digestive. 58 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: Hey more bananas for me, Man, Mandy that you don't 59 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: like them, it all works out, But you know, sometimes 60 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: I like to imagine like alternative universes in which discoveries 61 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: were made in different orders and different things were weird 62 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: or puzzling, because you know, the reason that things seem 63 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: weird is only because we haven't seen the whole picture. 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: It's like when you're doing a jigsaw puzzle and you 65 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: don't know like where these pieces go or what's that's 66 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: going to reveal. The nature of the questions comes from 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: the past you haven't found yet, But in some sense 68 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: that's just due to luck. You know, we found this before, 69 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: we found that, We stumbled over this before we stumbled 70 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: over that. So the history of these discoveries is really 71 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: important for you to understand why we're asking the questions 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: we're asking now. Yeah, so to be on the program, 73 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: we are covering some pretty recent history of physics wise, 74 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: and we're probably the most famous particle I think in 75 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: culture these days and maybe in physics. That's right, and 76 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: that's not something I'm grumpy about. I mean, I think 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: the Higgs Boson deserves its role, is the most famous particle. 78 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: It plays a really a central role in our theory, 79 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: and it's a really epic struggle to find it. The 80 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: search for it goes over many billions of dollars and 81 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: many different particle colliders and many decades. Yeah, so to 82 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: be on the program, we'll be asking the question, how 83 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: was the Higgs boson discovered on a Tuesday? Right, wasn't 84 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: it or a Wednesday? You know, it was no single moment. 85 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: I think that's the short answer to the question. It's 86 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: not like we came into work one day and boom, 87 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: there was a Higgs boson in our email inbox. You know, 88 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: We're like we found one in the center of the lab, 89 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: or there was just one moment when the results were 90 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: like boom, there we have it in sort of a 91 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: slow build, the gradually accumulation of data, a very gentle, 92 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: gradual reveal, not like an exciting plot twist at the end. 93 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't discovered with the bang. It was 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: more like with twenty three Brazilian bangs. A second. It's 95 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: like somebody very slowly drawing back the curtains so you 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: can see more and more and more of the drama 97 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: builds slowly, but then you know you need to have 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: a date. You need to have a moment where you say, okay, 99 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: this is it. We've decided we've discovered it, so that's 100 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: officially the moment of discovery. You guys picked your life four. Yeah, 101 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: that's just sort of random, just so a fun coincidence. 102 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: And that's why we get to call it Higgs Dependence 103 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: Day because we depend on the Higgs. I guess we 104 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: all depend on the Higgs. Really, the whole universe depend 105 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: on the The whole universe does totally depend on the Higgs. 106 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: If it wasn't for the Higgs boson, our universe would 107 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: be totally different. And also, the Higgs boson is sort 108 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: of precariously balanced. It's in this weird high energy state, 109 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: and it's the reason that particles have certain masses, and 110 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: if that changed, then the universe would totally change. It 111 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: would collapse into something unrecognizable to us. So thank Gosh 112 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: for the Higgs boson doing what it does. He's saying 113 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: it rules by fear. We must more worship, but otherwise 114 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: it's gonna have destory the universe. I think the Higgs 115 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: boson would rather be feared than loved. Yeah, it should 116 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: be called the Machiavelli particle, not the God particle. All right, Well, 117 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: it's a very important particle and it was discovered recently, 118 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: and there's a bit of drama about it and a 119 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: lot of interesting twists of the stories. So we'll get 120 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: into that today, but first it's usually we were wondering 121 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: how many people out there had heard of the story 122 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: or know about the details of how the Higgs boson 123 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: was discovered. That's right, So I asked people to volunteer 124 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 1: to answer random science questions on the Internet, not knowing 125 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: anything about what I would ask them, and no googling 126 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: allowed to Thank you to everybody who participated, and if 127 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: you'd like to volunteer your voice for future random science questions, 128 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: please write to us two questions at Daniel and Jorge 129 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: dot com. All right, so before you listen to these answers, 130 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: think about it for a second. What do you remember 131 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: about July fourth? Here's what people had to say. The 132 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: Higgs boson was discovered, You thing the lhc um some 133 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: sequence of particle the case was detected that backed up 134 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: the theory existing on the Higgs. I know where its 135 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: cern large hydron collider, but how most likely shooting and 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: colliding particles of the Higgs boson was discovered in the 137 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: large HYDRONI the Higgs boson was predicted by Peter Higgs 138 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: and others, and then it was discovered in two thousand 139 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: twelve in the Large Head Dround Collider. It was discovered 140 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: in the Large Hadron Collider, and it was by zooming 141 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: around hydrogen or helium electrons very close to the speed 142 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: of light. I think it was discovered with the Large 143 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: Hydron Collider, But as to how, I don't know. I 144 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: know that Higgs boson first discovered. In theory, we knew 145 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: that every force has an acting party ill and for gravity, 146 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: we called that particular Higgs. Physicists, even someone like I'm son, 147 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: figured out that there was something missing, and they kept 148 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: looking forward, looking for and it was my understanding that 149 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,679 Speaker 1: Higgs was the one that came up with the idea 150 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: of how it might might exist. If the Higgs boson 151 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: gives mass two particles, I'm going to suggest that they 152 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: started with a particle with known mass. I think I 153 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: heard in one of you guys podcasts that they were 154 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: discovered by the Large Hadron Collidas, so I'd assume that 155 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 1: tell it was discovered. I'm not sure, though, I feel 156 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: like I should know that one, and I think maybe 157 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: we were smashing some particles together and found some extra 158 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: energy that we couldn't account for. All Right, some pretty 159 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: knowledgeable answers here. You guys did a pretty good job 160 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: of educating the public. Yeah. I think it's also a 161 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: good pr by the LHC team because it's sort of 162 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: the particle collider that's in people's minds. I mean, I 163 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: don't know if you remember where we also asked people 164 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: how the top cork was discovered, and the answers were 165 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: basically the same by the Large change on collider, even 166 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: though that one was actually discovered by the previous collider. 167 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: So I think that this is a win for the 168 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: l a C as being the particle collider that's in 169 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: the forefront of people's minds and the tips of their tongues. 170 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: You're like the Kleenex of physics experiments. You know, pretty 171 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: soon they're going to call all colliders. That's right, I 172 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: blow my nose in the LHC. Alright, So let's step 173 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: us through the history here, Daniel. We're going to get 174 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: into how it was discovered and how can we know 175 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: that it's actually there. So take us back to before. 176 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: What do we know and why do we think the 177 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: Higgs boson existed? So The Higgs boson is one of 178 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: these particles that has a long history because we thought 179 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: it existed before we discovered it. There are a lot 180 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: of people who suspected it was there, and there is 181 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: a grand tradition of this and particle physics of like 182 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: looking at the patterns of the particles that we see 183 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: and seeing something missing, or you know, not having a 184 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 1: question answered and finding a missing piece that answers that question. 185 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: It's just like with the jigsaw puzzle or with the 186 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: periodic table, if there's a hole in the periodic table, 187 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: you wonder like, why is that hole there? Wouldn't this 188 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: make more sense if there was something else there. So 189 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: people spent a lot of time thinking about the patterns 190 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: of the particles that we had seen and wondering about 191 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: some things about them they didn't understand, and using that 192 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: to predict the existence of this Higgs boson and also 193 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: this Higgs field. But in this case wasn't really a 194 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: pattern because I know, for the like some of the 195 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: other courts, it was sort of based on a pattern, 196 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: But here wasn't it more like about the math and 197 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: looking at the equations and like, oh, it's missing some 198 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: field here to make it all balanced out. Yeah, Actually 199 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: it was a lack of a pattern. You see, in 200 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: the second half of this last century, people had understood 201 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: that there was a deep connection between electromagnetism, you know, 202 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: thing responsible for electricity and magnets, and the thing that 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: gives us the photon, and this other force, the weak 204 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: nuclear force, the one responsible for radioactive decay, and that 205 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: force has three particles, a Z particle and two W particles, 206 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: and people that understood that actually these two different forces 207 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: were just parts of the same force, the electro weak force, 208 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: and the photon belonged with sort of a gang. It 209 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: was actually not just like one photon over here and 210 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: three week particles over there. They're part of this gang 211 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: of four particles. And mathematically it fit together beautifully. It's 212 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: just like a missing part of the jigsaw puzzle finally 213 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: clicked into place and you could understand why things look 214 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: the way they looked. It was just really gorgeous. Like 215 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: from the group theory point of view, it satisfied lots 216 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: of symmetries, but there was one problem. The problem is 217 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 1: that the photon is really different from these other bosons 218 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: in an important way that you mentioned, and that it 219 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: has no mass, whereas the other ones are really heavy, 220 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: And so what made us think that they were all 221 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: together in a gang? You know, like, is it because 222 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: they all transmit the same force kind of or do 223 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: they behave in a similar way. They do kind of 224 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: behave in a similar way. I mean, electrons very familiar particles. 225 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: They like to interact with photons, but also with the 226 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: weak bosons, the ws and disease and that's it. Electrons 227 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: don't interact with anything else. That's all they interact with, 228 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: and so it feels sort of natural to connect all 229 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: the particles that electrons and also muons and taws talk 230 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: to and look for a pattern among them to see 231 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: if they fit into like a larger grouping. It's like 232 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: when you put electricity and magnetism together. Electricity is a 233 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: bunch of different phenomena that you observe and magnetism are 234 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of different phenomena that you observe. But you 235 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: notice that sometimes electric charges cause magnetism and sometimes magnetism 236 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: can induce electricity, and so it makes more sense to 237 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: think of them as one thing. I mean, there are 238 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: different phenomenon, right, It's not like magnets are electrical, but 239 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: there really makes more sense. It's simpler just to think 240 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: of it as part of a larger combination. The Yeah, 241 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: it's like they're two sides of the same coin. And 242 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,599 Speaker 1: so you get this beautiful connection if you plug the 243 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: photon in with these other three particles in the same 244 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: way as if you merge electricity and magnetism, you get 245 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: these beautiful symmetries. And particle physics is all about symmetries, 246 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: about finding these patterns. And we don't know why the 247 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: universe has symmetries. We don't know why it has patterns, 248 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: but we have found that when you look for patterns, 249 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: typically those things are clues there, hints. They show you 250 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: how the universe works, Like everything needs to do somehow 251 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: balance together, or it would be weird if it wasn't symmetry. Yeah, precisely. 252 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: And here we have a really beautiful symmetry electroweak symmetry. 253 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: These particles all fit together in this really nice way. 254 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: And specifically you can like rotate your way through this 255 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: four dimensional space. You have four particles there. If the 256 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: symmetry works, you can rotate between them. And so like 257 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: the photon and the z should play the same role, 258 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: you should be able to rotate between them. But the 259 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: problem is the symmetry was broken. It didn't quite work 260 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: because the photon is very very light as no mass, 261 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: and the z was very very heavy. So it's like 262 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: an almost symmetry. It's like it's like a hint, like 263 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: this almost works, but what about this one piece and 264 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: that piece sort of stuck in physicist I for a 265 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: long time. It's like looking in the mirror and it's 266 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: seeing kind of a different image of yourself. You're like 267 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: something's going on here, yeah, and it's like almost right, 268 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: but not quite. And so they wanted to understand, like 269 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: is this symmetry just flawed and we throw it out 270 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: the window, or is there a reason why it's broken? 271 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: Is that a clue? Does that explain something else? Because 272 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: the symmetry was too good to abandon, you know. On 273 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: the other hand, there's lots of times in the history 274 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: of physics when we thought we've had a beautiful idea 275 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: and had to throw it away because it just didn't work. 276 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: Like mathematically it works, but nature says no. So sometimes 277 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: that happens. But sometimes you know, it's just a clue 278 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: that like you need to refine it or tweak it 279 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: or twist it. And so that's what the Higgs boson was. 280 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: It was a refinement of this theory to help it work. Right, 281 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: Although I feel like it's weird because I feel like 282 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: you physicists started wanting things to be symmetric, but nowadays 283 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: they accepted some things are not symmetric. Yeah, well, you know, 284 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: the universe doesn't know is obey these symmetries. You know, 285 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: we'd like to see symmetry because it's like beautiful and pretty. 286 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: But then the universe says, yeah, that's nice, but I 287 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: don't follow those rules. And so then we got to 288 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: figure out why, like what are the real symmetries, you know, 289 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: or how do we break these symmetries in the smallest 290 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: possible ways? So our theories are still pretty right, I guess. 291 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: I mean, like we had known back then that some 292 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: symmetries can be broken, would you still have looked for 293 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson or come up with the Higgs boson 294 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: or would you have just said, oh, well it's not 295 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: to meat. That's a great question, I think. So, I mean, 296 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: there's just so much evidence that suggests that the weak 297 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: force and electricity magnetism are connected. You have to find 298 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: some way to connect them. So I think it's too 299 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: tempting to avoid, So okay, So then that's how they 300 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: came up with the Higgs field. It's like, hey, let's 301 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: put a number here to make it all balanced out, 302 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: and let's call that the Higgs field. Yeah, because you 303 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: can't just say I'm gonna make these particles massive, I'm 304 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: just gonna put in by hand some numbers and make 305 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: the W and the Z massive because that breaks the 306 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: kind of symmetry that you're trying to protect. It's called 307 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: the local gauge symmetry of electroweak symmetry lets you rotate 308 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: these particles between themselves. So if you put the masses in, 309 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: it just breaks that symmetry. So they found another way 310 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: to give these particles mass. It's like, don't put the 311 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: mass on the particle itself. Instead give it mass from 312 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: its environment. So the mass is no longer like something 313 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: that belongs to the particle itself. It's an after effect. 314 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: It's an emergent phenomena from interacting with its environment. Like 315 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't come from the photon, but maybe there's 316 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: just something about space or the universe that somehow we're 317 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: not seeing. But magically balances out the equations. Yeah, we 318 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: talked about this on another podcast about renormalization. How for example, 319 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: the actual charge of the electron all by itself is 320 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: like negative infinity, and it's only an interaction with the 321 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: complex vacuum of space that it gets brought up to 322 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: minus one. And in the same way, the masses of 323 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: these particles by themselves, like the Z and the w 324 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: all by themselves and an empty universe would have mass zero, 325 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: but you put them in our universe with a complex 326 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: vacuum with particles and fields, whenever they look like they 327 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: have this heavier mass, and that's because they interact with 328 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. So it's a clever way to effectively 329 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: give mass to these particles without actually putting it on them, 330 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: so you don't break this symmetry. It's like a clever 331 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: little mathematical trick. I guess the idea is that it's 332 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: not a property of the particles, but it's more like 333 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: a property of interacting with something, and that's different. That's different. 334 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: Although all we can do is measure our interactions, and 335 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: so it's a bit of a philosophical difference, Like we 336 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: talked about in the case of the renormalization episode, like, 337 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: what does it really mean for the particle to have 338 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: no mass in an empty universe. It's never gonna be 339 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: in an empty universe. It's always going to be in 340 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: our universe. And so it's a bit of a mathematical 341 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: philosophical distinction, but it lets us keep this symmetry because 342 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: we think the symmetry deals with like the bear the 343 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: pure particle by itself. All right, pretty cool. Let's now 344 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: get into how we actually found this magic or not 345 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: magic particle that gives everything mass and what the search 346 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: for it was like. But first let's take a quick break. 347 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: All right, Daniel, we're celebrating Higgs Dependence Day, the day 348 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: that we learned of our deep dependence on the Higgs boson, 349 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: which was July four, a little over eight years ago. 350 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: So how do we actually find this Higgs boson. It's 351 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: important to understand that the first idea was not for 352 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: Higgs boson, but for Higgs field. This is some new 353 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: quantum field that fills the universe and has this effect 354 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: that gives the Z and the W mass and not 355 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: the photon. But one prediction of the field is that, 356 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: like all other fields, if you give them a little 357 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: blob of energy if you excite them. If you get 358 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: a little packet of excited field, then that looks like 359 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: a particle. So there's a prediction also for a new particle, 360 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: the Higgs boson. So the field and the part cool 361 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: have the same relationship as other particles and fields. But 362 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: what we found was not directly the Higgs field. We 363 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: look for the Higgs boson, which is the particle from 364 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: that could could you have a field without a particle, 365 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: could you know, think the Higgs field but not the 366 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: Higgs boson, or when you predict the Higgs field, you 367 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: automatically predict the Higgs boson. Well, that's a great question. 368 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,719 Speaker 1: I think that every quantum field has to have a particle. 369 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: I can't think of an example of a quantum file 370 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a particle, and I think that your 371 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: interaction with it in terms of perturbation theories always described 372 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: in terms of particles. But you know, I'm not sure 373 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: that's a that's a really fun question. We'll smoke some 374 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: banana peals and think about that deep question someday. But 375 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: I guess it was. So it's all sort of together, 376 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: like when Peter Higgs came up with this idea of 377 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: like playing this in to make the equations, where he 378 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: must have known right away that meant that there was 379 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: a particle involved too. Yes, absolutely, and you know, Peter 380 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Higgs sort of wins the race to get his name 381 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: put on this, but there were lots of other people 382 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: coming up with very similar ideas at the same time, 383 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: and they submitted papers like within weeks of each other, 384 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: and so there's still a lot of bitterness. And in 385 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: some parts of the world it's not called the Higgs Boson, 386 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: it's called the b. E. H Boson because there's two 387 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: other guys, Brout and Englert, who have their names on it. Also, 388 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: so depending on like where your conference is, it's called 389 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: the b. E. H Boson or the Higgs Boson or 390 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: really you have to like code switch when you go 391 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: between conferences. Yeah, precisely. And there's a whole group of 392 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: Americans who are totally left out of the Nobel Prize 393 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: and the naming and they're grumpy and all their friends 394 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: call it after them, and so yeah, you totally have 395 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: to switch. Oh man, But you know, I like the 396 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: Higgs name. I feel like it's better than you feel 397 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: like it best sounds like you burped or something, right, Yeah, 398 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: but Higgs sounds pretty well if I'm insulting like all 399 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: of Europe right now, mostly just Belgium. Actually, well they 400 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: don't get insulted, so they're just drinking Belgian. Well, they 401 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 1: have good fries and waffles anyway. So what we do 402 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: is we look for the boson, not the field, And 403 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: like with other particles, the way you make it is 404 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: you use a collider and you smash particles together to 405 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: try to make enough energy in a tiny little spot 406 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: that the universe can make heavy particles. Most of the 407 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: universe is like dilute and cool, and so there isn't 408 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: enough energy to make anything except for very light stable 409 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: particles like electrons and quirks that we're made up. But 410 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: if you want to find new stuff, you've got to 411 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: collide particles that really high energy and create those little 412 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: packets of energy. The nature can then turn, sometimes very rarely, 413 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: into an excitation of the Higgs field and give you 414 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: a Higgs boson. I guess one question I have is, 415 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, it seems like the Higgs field is so 416 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: pervasive and so integral to all particles, and it's like 417 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: it's always there, Like, why is it so hard to 418 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: make it BLib you know, Like, if it's right there, 419 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: why does it have such a big threshold for us 420 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: to find it. Why couldn't we have found it earlier 421 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: with lower energy collider. Yeah, that's a great question, And 422 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: the key is the mass. The prediction from Peter Higgs 423 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: was there is this field, and therefore there is this particle. 424 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: But he couldn't predict what the mass of that particle was. 425 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: It could have been very very very light, in which 426 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: case it would have been discovered just a few years 427 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: after he predicted it, or it could have been super 428 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: heavy so that we hadn't even discovered it yet, And 429 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: so he didn't know how heavy it was. And like 430 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: with all things in collider world, the heavier it is, 431 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: the more energy you need to make it, and so 432 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: the bigger your collider has to be, and so the 433 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: more expensive it is, and so it just took time 434 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: to build a big enough collider to find it. I 435 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: guess you need energy to make it, but I guess, 436 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a weird thing to think 437 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: about the Higgs boson having mass, because isn't isn't that 438 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: what it does to give mass to things. Yeah, it's weird. 439 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: It also has self interactions and interacts with itself, and 440 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: that's the thing that gives it mass. And Higgs field 441 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: didn't predict how strong that self interaction would be, and 442 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: so we didn't know, and so people started looking for 443 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 1: pretty much right away and not finding it all right, 444 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: So then, yeah, you build a collider. You've smash protons together, 445 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: and you hope that a Higgs comes out every once 446 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: in aime, that's right, And protons have inside them quarks 447 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: and gluons. The gluons hold the quirks together, and which 448 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: you hope for is two of those gluons actually collide 449 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: together with enough energy to give you a Higgs boson. 450 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: And the Higgs boson doesn't last for very long. So 451 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: you can't just like take a picture of it. You 452 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: can't see it and say, here's our Higgs boson, in 453 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: which case you only would have need to have made 454 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: one of them and you could put it on your 455 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: wall and that's your discovery. The problem is that it 456 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 1: lasts for ten to the minus twenty three seconds and 457 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: then it turns into other stuff. That's what you gotta 458 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: do is look at that other stuff and figure out 459 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: if it looks like it came from the Higgs boson 460 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: or something else. I guess what made you think that 461 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: it could even had mass? Like, couldn't have been like 462 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: a photon or would that not help you with the 463 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: symmetry of the equations. Yeah, in order to have the 464 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: effect that it has, it has to have a non 465 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: zero mass, otherwise it wouldn't have this weird symmetry breaking effect. 466 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: But we didn't know it could have been ten times 467 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: heavier than it turned out to be, were ten times lighter. 468 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: You know. That's one of the frustrating things about the 469 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: theories that we didn't quite know where to look. And 470 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: that means you don't know how big to build your 471 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: accelerator or how it will decay, because all those things 472 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: change based on how heavy it is. Really, it can 473 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: have any kind of mass, Like you know, what, do 474 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: we have a very different universe of the Higgs boson 475 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: was really big and massive. No, you could have the 476 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: much heavier Higgs boson and basically have the same universe. Really, 477 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: like if the Higgs was really massive, would in that 478 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: I don't know affact how things have mass or anything 479 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: like that, because it doesn't matter most things get massed 480 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: through their interaction with the field. It doesn't matter how 481 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: heavy the particle itself is, alright, so they're really fast collisions, 482 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: and the Higgs doesn't last for very long. So how 483 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: do you actually detected, Like, how do you know it 484 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: existed if it only exists for ten to the minus 485 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: twenty three seconds, and so we can never say for sure. 486 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: What we do is we look at a collision and 487 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: we look at the patterns of the stuff that came out, 488 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: and we say, okay, this looked like this collision had, 489 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: for example, two photons in it. We can add up 490 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: the energies of those photon and say, okay, the total 491 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: energy that came out of this collision, how much was it? 492 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: And if higgs boson was there, then the total energy 493 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: that came out of the collision should add up to 494 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: the mass of the Higgs boson. So we look for 495 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: a lot of events like that, a lot of collisions 496 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: that turn into two photons. We add up all their 497 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: masses and we make a plot of it like a histogram, 498 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: and we look for a bump. We look for a 499 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: bunch of collisions that led to photons that all have 500 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: the same mass. Because if the Higgs boson is real, 501 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: it will make more of those events happen. And you 502 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: have to know for sure that those two photons couldn't 503 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,959 Speaker 1: have come from any other thing. We can never know 504 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: that for sure. There are other ways to make two 505 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: photons photons, two same photons, but they don't tend to 506 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: make two same photons that add up to the Higgs mass. 507 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: They tend to make random masses. And so the background, 508 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: the things that mimic your signature that also give you 509 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: two photons, just give you random numbers. Whereas photons that 510 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: came from the Higgs always end up at about the 511 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: same place. So if you do it often enough, you 512 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: notice like a pile of them accumulating at this place. 513 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: With the true mass of the Higgs, you look for this, basically, 514 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: this bump over this background spectrum, right, and I imagine 515 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: you see other bumps, but they're probably due to other 516 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: like interactions. Right. Yeah, Well, bumps are pretty exciting because 517 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: they almost always mean some particles. There are some heavy 518 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: particles there and it decayed, and so basically every bump 519 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: is a Nobel prize. You know. It's sort of like 520 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: you're draining a swamp and you're seeing features in the lake, 521 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: and everyone is something fascinating and interesting. And the bigger 522 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: you're collider, and the longer you're running, the more you're 523 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: able to like pump water out of that lake and 524 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: see all the hidden features. And so we're constantly doing 525 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: this way. This is why we run the collider over 526 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: and over and over again, because we're looking for smaller 527 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: and smaller and more subtle bumps. The more collisions you make, 528 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: the more you can see these little bumps emerge from 529 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: the fog. So I guess it's all statistical, right, because 530 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: you you run us a bunch of times, I mean, 531 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: and if you see it's kind of like an unexpected 532 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: high incidence of you know, collisions in this mass range, 533 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: that must mean that the Higgs was there. Yeah, it's 534 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: all statistical, and we can't point to one event and 535 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: say this one was definitely a Higgs. We just say, well, 536 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: these fifty events all have about the same value, and 537 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: there's more close to this value than any other value, 538 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: and so we think it's very likely that it's there. 539 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: But it's a little bit frustrating because you can't like 540 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: take a picture of it or say conclusively this collision 541 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: was a Higgs Boson. It it's in the end of 542 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: purely statistical thing. You only see the leftovers or the 543 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: footprints in the snow. You never actually like take a 544 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: picture of it. Yeah, it's like you're looking for Bigfoot 545 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: and you have tracks, and you have spore and you 546 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: have you know, lots of other evidence that convince you 547 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: that it's not just random nonsense, but you don't actually 548 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: have the Bigfoot itself. You see a lot of poop 549 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: in one place that more than usual, you're like something, 550 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: something was here, and something likes to keep coming back here. Yeah, precisely. 551 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: All right, Well let's get into now how we actually 552 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: founded and what that discovery meant. But first let's take 553 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: another quick break. All right, we are talking about the 554 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: discovery of the Higgs Boson, which was an important date 555 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: in history, at least physics history. And step us through Daniel. 556 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: What was it actually like to like look for this 557 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: thing and to find this thing where people confident they 558 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: would find it or was it kind of a big 559 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: shot in the dark. It was a very long and 560 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: sometimes painful process, full of excitement and disappointment, and it 561 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: was another one of these transatlantic rivalries where the Americans 562 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: took the lead, and then the Europeans took over, and 563 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: then they didn't find and then the Americans took over 564 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: again and had a chance, and then finally the Europeans. 565 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: Really like a race, Yeah, it really was. It's like 566 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: an arms race in science, and it's constantly this like 567 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: race for who's got the highest energy colliders. It's a 568 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: bit of like nationalism and prestige. It's a lot like 569 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: the space race, you know, except without the threat of 570 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: i cb MS raining down on you who had the 571 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: biggest rocket kind of yeah, and it started with the Americans. 572 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: So there's a long history of looking for the Higgs 573 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: boson a very low masses and other colliders which didn't 574 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: see it. But once we understood like this thing was 575 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: going to be pretty heavy, we knew it needed a 576 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: big collider. And so the Americans had a big idea. 577 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: They were going to build the super Conducting super Collider, 578 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: awesomely named and it was gonna be the most powerful. 579 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: I thought you were just using iproberly, No, they used 580 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: hype of beliefs. Actually call this what is this super 581 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: super conducting super collider. It's a pretty supername. It's like 582 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: we made Superman. We're gonna we're gonna use super as 583 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: much as possible, exactly. And this thing was going to 584 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: have so much energy. It was going to have thirty 585 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: three Tara electron bolts. Now Tara electron bolts, it's thirty 586 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: three trillion electron bolts. That's a whole lot of energy. 587 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: And it was gonna be the biggest collider ever. And 588 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: they started building it. It was gonna be in Waxa Hatchie, Texas, 589 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: and they started building it. They started wearing a hole. 590 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: They cut like twenty kilometers of tunnel underground in Texas. 591 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: They spent billions of dollars, and then they canceled the project. 592 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: What happened? And well, and this one is interesting because 593 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't a ring, right, like I think it's like 594 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: a straight collider. Now, this one was going to be 595 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: a ring, but they never finished the ring. But it's 596 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: still like a partial tunnel underground in Texas. And it 597 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: just sort of lost political support and became a scapegoat 598 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: for like, you know, excessive government spending, Like what are 599 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: you spending five billion dollars on this thing? Is ridiculous? 600 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: We scoffed at five billion dollars for the search for 601 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: the ultimate particle I know. And it was especially ridiculous 602 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: because they spent like two billion dollars digging a hole 603 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: and then like another three billion dollars like closing up 604 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: shop and filling it in. So there was so much 605 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: waste of money. And there's a funny story there because 606 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: the guy who was the director of CERN at the time, 607 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: and CERN was preparing to build their own collider to 608 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: look for the Higgs Boson, he came to the US 609 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: and testified in front of RIS that it was a 610 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: big waste of money to build the super conducting super 611 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: collider because by the time it's finished, CERN would have 612 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: already discovered the Higgs Boson. Sabotage. So Carlo Rubia, the 613 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: same guy who in the top Cork history made that 614 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: false claim to discovered the top word, he's sabotage. He 615 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: totally knife in the back to the super conducting stugree 616 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: with his confidence. He's just like, I don't even bother. 617 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: He like totally psyched us out. He totally plucked us out. 618 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: And of course his prediction with Bologna, because the Europeans 619 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: didn't discover the Higgs boson with their next collider. And 620 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: it's such a tragedy because that collider would have taught 621 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: us so much about the universe. Thirty three terror electron 622 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: bolts is three times as powerful as our best current collider, 623 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: the large Hadron collider. This is like better, even better, 624 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: three times better than the one we have now thirty 625 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: years ago. So particle physics was set back like several 626 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: decades by that funding decision because of this on moved 627 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: by this person who had ambition to be the first 628 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: one to discover it. Yeah, and you know, also the 629 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: vaguaries of American electoral politics and shifting priorities in the 630 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: house and all this stuff. But you know, it was 631 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: sort of like particle physics aimed too high and flew 632 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: too close to the Sun and then came crashing down. 633 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: I see, like maybe they had only spent two billion 634 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: dollars for twenty two tera electronic wal collider, maybe they 635 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: would have made it through. Maybe. And you know a 636 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of people left their positions at academia to go 637 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: work for the super conducting SuperCollider Lab, and their careers 638 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: greater after that. And so it was really a big 639 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: tragedy for American particle physics, all right, so then then 640 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: the Europeans took over or what happened, Yes, and then 641 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: the Europeans took over, and the super conducting super collider 642 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: was going to collide protons, and protons are very powerful, 643 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: but the Europeans took a different strategy. They decided to 644 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: collide electrons and positrons. And these things are much cleaner 645 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: because they don't have the strong interaction, and so the 646 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: collisions are just simpler and more powerful and easier to understand. 647 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: The trick is not as easy to get them up 648 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: to high speed because protons are easier to accelerate to 649 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 1: high speed because they have more mass. Counterintuitively, right, but 650 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 1: this is still not This is not the LC. It's 651 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: the l EP, the Large electron positron collider, call it LEPP. 652 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: And this thing was like much much less than even 653 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: one terra electron vault. It was zero point two is 654 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: a fifth of a terra electron bolt. Doesn't sound so 655 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: big compared to thirty three. Yeah, exactly. It was much smaller. 656 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: But you know the good thing about having electron colliders, 657 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: you got to use all the energy in the electron. 658 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: When you collide protons, you only get part of it 659 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: because you're really just using like one cork or glue 660 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: on inside the proton. But when you collide electrons and positrons, 661 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: you get all the energy, so you don't need as 662 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: much energy in an electron positron collider. All right, Well, 663 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: i've never heard of the LP, so I'm guessing it 664 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: didn't discover the Higgs boltson. It didn't, but it almost did. 665 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: And they turned this thing on and they ran it 666 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: for a while and they didn't see the Higgs, and 667 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,959 Speaker 1: they didn't see the Higgs, and they didn't see the Higgs. 668 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: And then the last summer that they were and have 669 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: this thing turned on the summer of two thousand, they're 670 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: supposed to shut down so they could tear it apart 671 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: and build the Large Hadron Collider. There's gonna be the 672 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: big upgrade. That last summer is in the same place, 673 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: in the same place, in the same tunnel, right, So 674 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: this same tunnel where the Large Electron Proton Collider was 675 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: is the same tunnel we use now for the LHC. 676 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: So you couldn't run both of them at once. Oh what, 677 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: there's the same size tunnel, same size tunnel, just stronger 678 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: magnets and so that's how they saved a bunch of 679 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: money to build the LHC is that they put it 680 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: in the same place as the original collider, but that 681 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: meant that they couldn't operate both at the same time. 682 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: So to build the LC they have to turn off 683 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: the l E. So what happened right before they closed? Yeah, 684 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 1: so right before they closed. It's a summer of two 685 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: thousand and you know in Europe, in like July and August, 686 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: everybody goes on vacation. It's ridiculous. It doesn't matter what's 687 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: going on. Everybody takes like a month of vacation. Month 688 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: I've heard of six weeks is the normal, and you're 689 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: a month of the minimum. Every just sort of like 690 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: slides down the continent to the beaches on the mediterrane Union. 691 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: And so some people stayed behind, didn't take vacation. And 692 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, Maroumi, who was a post 693 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: doc in the time, he was there in the control 694 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: room and it was like the last few weeks this 695 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: collider would even run, and he's sitting there looking at 696 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: the data, and all of a sudden, boom, there's a 697 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: collision that comes in that looks exactly like a Higgs Boson. 698 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: It's like beautiful, it has exactly everything you would expect. 699 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: It's gorgeous. You know. It has a certain mass at 700 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifteen g ev, which is like 701 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: right on the edge of what the L e P 702 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: could discover. And he thought, wow, that's pretty, but you 703 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: know whatever, It's one event, and then later that same afternoon, boom, 704 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: there's another one exactly the same mass, and he's like, wow, 705 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: maybe this is like the moment, Like I'm here by myself, 706 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: everybody else is on vacation. Maybe like nature is talking 707 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: to me with an incredible moment for him, why would 708 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: it start now and not before? Well, they were turning 709 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: up the energy, so they were cranking up the energy 710 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: bit by bit. They were like squeezing out as much 711 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: energy as they could, and so it might be that 712 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: they had just crossed the threshold to be able to 713 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 1: create it, right, And was it real? It turned out 714 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: it wasn't real, but it was tantalized. It was not 715 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: it was not. And in the end he had six events. 716 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: So everybody came back from vacation. He was like, guys, 717 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: while you were on the beach, here's what I found. 718 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: And he showed these events and it's set the whole 719 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: community on fire. People are like, oh my gosh. The 720 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: problem was they didn't have enough events to prove it. 721 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: They didn't have like conclusive evidence that had a hint, right, 722 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: So they wanted to run longer. But then everybody's also 723 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: waiting to build the LHC. So they petitioned to the 724 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: management of certain They said, please delay the LHC and 725 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: let's run this collider for another six months or another 726 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: year to get like conclusive evidence, right, just to get 727 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: more hits. Yeah, because across the pond, the Americans were 728 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: building their collider, the Tevatron outside Chicago, and if they 729 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: turned off the l A P would take them, you know, 730 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: eight or ten years to build the LHC. In the meantime, 731 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: if it really was there a hundred and fifteen, the 732 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: Americans would find it. And so it seemed like a 733 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: really dangerous bet turn off the l EP where you 734 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: had this like exciting hint that maybe it was right there, 735 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: and to build the LHC. So they actually turned it off. Yea. 736 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: They said no. The certain director said no, I don't 737 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: think that the evidence is conclusive, and the LHC should 738 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: be our priority, and so he shut it down. He 739 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: gave them like an extra couple of weeks and he 740 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: shut it down. What did they find in those extra weeks? 741 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: Not much. You know, they had four experiments around the 742 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: ring at the l e P and the one that 743 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: my friend was on saw six events that looked like 744 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: a Higgs boson, and a couple of the other experiments 745 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: saw one or two, but some of them saw nothing, 746 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: and so it was like it was tempting, It was tantalizing, 747 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: but it wasn't really that strong. It was sort of 748 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: like a last ditch effort to maybe maybe see it there, 749 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: but it wasn't really conclusive. And so the certain director 750 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: made a really tough choice, Well what do we think now, 751 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,280 Speaker 1: do we think that it was or that it wasn't 752 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: for sure? We think it was just a fluctuation, because 753 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: if it was there, if it really was the Higgs 754 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: boson at a hundred and fift g V, the tevatron, 755 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: the neck accelerator would have found it. And now, of 756 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: course we know with the benefit of history, that's not 757 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: an hundred fifty. It was found later at one. So 758 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: that was just a fluctuation, you know, you flip a 759 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 1: coin a hundred times. Sometimes you'll get weird distributions, and 760 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: and that's what happened here. And the folks were like 761 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: desperate to find that. They were so excited to see 762 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: it that they got really excited about what, in the 763 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: end was just a few random events. All right. So 764 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: then I guess while they were building the L A C. 765 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 1: Then the Americans had kind of like this window for 766 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,959 Speaker 1: them to do it, to find it with the teletron. Yes, 767 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: so we built a collider outside Chicago at Fermulab and 768 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: it was colliding protons and anti protons at two TV, 769 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: so there's ten times the energy of the collider at left. 770 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: Although you don't get to harness all that energy because 771 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: remember the proton is like a bag of particles that 772 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: has corks and gluons in it, which you're colliding are 773 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 1: those corks and gluons, They don't have the full energy 774 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: of the proton. But still it's really powerful, and you're right, 775 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: they had like ten years to look for it. But 776 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: you know, protons are messy because you're colliding a whole 777 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: bag of particles and it makes a big, messy splash, 778 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: just not as clean and pure as colliding electrons and positrons, 779 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: so it's harder. So they had more energy, but it 780 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: was always going to be tough for the tevatron to 781 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: find it. The only chance they had is if it 782 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 1: was very very light, if it was at one fifteen, 783 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: they could have found it, but not but not higher 784 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: because they can go up to two TV. They can 785 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: go up to two TV. They could have found it 786 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: like below one fifteen. And also there's a window between 787 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: around like one fifty and one eight where it does 788 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: a very special thing. It turns into w bosons that 789 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: the tepatron would have been very good at finding. So 790 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: they were just you know, rolling the dice. If it 791 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: was low mass or if it was in this one window, 792 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: they totally would have found it. The tevatron would have 793 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: found the Higgs boson. So then what happened. Then they 794 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,879 Speaker 1: gave up while they ran as long as they could, 795 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: and then once the l C turned on, then they 796 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: gave up. They said, all right, well there's no point anymore. Really, yeah, 797 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: what because I guess they weren't finding it. And so 798 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, somebody has a better machine. Yeah, 799 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: And the LEDC is you know, ten times as powerful 800 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: as the tevatron has higher energy and more collisions per 801 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: second TV, So the LEDC is about five times is powerful. 802 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: It's collisions they varied from seven TV the start up 803 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: to now thirteen TV, so about an order of magnitude 804 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,240 Speaker 1: more powerful. But also they have more collisions per second, 805 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 1: and so the tevatron knew that. You know, as soon 806 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: as it turned on it was going to find it 807 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. There was no point to continue because but 808 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: the tevatron to find it would need like two and 809 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: a half times more data, need to run for like 810 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: another five or ten years. But you know there are 811 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: people in the fields who are like, no, we should 812 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: keep running, we should keep going because they might stumble, right, yeah, 813 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: they might crash right, Like the machine is hard to 814 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: get it to work. Yeah, And you know when they 815 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: turned the machine on the LHC after ten years they 816 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: had been quiet building this thing. They turned it on 817 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. It only ran for like 818 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: nine days before there was a big disaster. So they 819 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: did stumble. They did stumble exactly, and there was an 820 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: electrical fault. One of the things hadn't been wired correctly, 821 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: and it's short at out and released like tons of 822 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: liquid helium. There's this big alarm. And I was actually 823 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: at the LHC that day. I was on shift in 824 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: the control room, which is normally a very boring thing. 825 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: You sit there, you look at a bunch of panels, 826 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: they're all green lights. You're trying not to fall asleep. 827 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: But sometimes something crazy happens. And that happened while I 828 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: was there. Really, like the lights turned red with the 829 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: big horns, like, yeah, exactly. Wasn't just like a computer 830 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: like a window popping up you just clicked Okay, You're like, wait, wait, wait, 831 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: what what did I say? No, it was a big disaster. 832 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: You know. There were fires and like really heavy equipment 833 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: got like shoved around inside the tunnel, and so it 834 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 1: was a big disaster. We got to hit the big 835 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,920 Speaker 1: red button finally to you know, shut everything down. It 836 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: was exciting, but of course it was also disappointing because 837 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: it took like fifteen months to fix it. This stuff 838 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: is super cold, and so to fix it you have 839 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: to warm it up very gradually, fix it, and then 840 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: cool it down very gradually, which takes months and months. 841 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: So maybe the Teva try should have been going, you know, 842 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: so the Tabatron kept going during that window. They were like, oh, 843 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: we got one more little chance at this. They were 844 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: watching the L A C stumble yes exactly, and so 845 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: they were like, keep going, everybody, maybe we'll see it. 846 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: And so they pushed a little harder, one last gasp, 847 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: because again nobody knew where it was. It could have 848 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: been like just around the corner in the window that 849 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: tabatron could have found it. But in the end, the 850 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: LC turned on, and then people turned off the tabatron 851 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: because they figured they were not going to find it 852 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: was time to let the LC do its thing. And 853 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: pretty soon after it turned on, you guys found it. 854 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: Like it like, it didn't take a long time. It 855 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: didn't take a long time. You know. We turned on 856 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: again in like two thousand and ten and started analyzing data. 857 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: And you know, it takes a little bit of time 858 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,400 Speaker 1: because you have to get enough data. And these colliders, 859 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: when you turn them on, they work and fits and 860 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: spurts until the engineers figure out like how to kick 861 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: it and how to tweak this knob, and you know, 862 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: on tuesdays you gotta elbow it this way and really 863 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: get it, you know, humming. But eventually the data started 864 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: pouring in and then we were doing that thing. We 865 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: were like pulling the water out of the swamp and 866 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: seeing the features, and you know, there were wiggles in 867 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 1: the data early on that people got excited about. And 868 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,760 Speaker 1: people didn't know, is it there? Is it not there? 869 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: Where are we going to find it? Nobody really knew 870 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,840 Speaker 1: where to look. So finally, one day, uh not on 871 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: July four, they actually started getting the data and and 872 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: it started to point to having found the Higgs. But 873 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: you know, was there a moment I imagine you told 874 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: me that maybe there wasn't, But I wonder if there 875 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: was a moment when like some grad student or some physicists, 876 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, pulls out the data and they're like, huh, 877 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 1: what is this little bump? Well, you know there was 878 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: a moment for me in the summer of two thousand 879 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: and eleven. Both experiments saw bumps, but they saw bumps 880 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: in different places. Like ATLAS saw bump, but it was 881 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 1: at around a hundred and forty five g V. Cmsaw 882 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: bump around a hundred and twenty g V. So you 883 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: knew that they were just random because it didn't agree. Now, 884 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,280 Speaker 1: these are two different experiments, ATLAS and CMS, two different 885 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: experiments at different points around the ring independent data, and 886 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: so you expect them if the Higgs is real, to 887 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: see bumps at the same place. It's a very important 888 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: cross check. And also the two groups. There's a whole 889 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: group of thousands of experimentalists working on ATLAS and thousands 890 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: of experimentalists working on CMS. They're not supposed to talk 891 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: to each other. It's supposed to keep each other separate. 892 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,439 Speaker 1: It's supposed to keep these secrets so that the work 893 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: can be independent. The problem is, of course, all these 894 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,400 Speaker 1: people know each other. We're all friends. Sometimes you got 895 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: like a married couple where one is on one experiment, 896 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: the others on the other experiment. You know, they're talking 897 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: to each other. So there's no way that any secrets 898 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,360 Speaker 1: are really being kept. And so there was a moment 899 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: in like late two thousand eleven. I called up a 900 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: friend of mine on the other experiment. I said, hey, um, 901 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: you know we have a bump. Where's your bump? Had 902 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: a bump like I found? I found a lump? What no, no, no, 903 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: I mean sharing information like that is strictly against the rules. 904 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: I would never do that. Did I say it was me? 905 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in It was a colleague of mine 906 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: who talked to his friend and then and told me 907 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: about it. I mean, you must have misheard me. I 908 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: would never do that. You tainted the results. We had 909 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: this bump, and I was curious about whether they had 910 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 1: a bump, And it turns out they had a bump 911 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: in the same place. And that's the moment. And you 912 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: figured that out on the phone. At the moment I 913 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,359 Speaker 1: started to believe when I thought, you know what, I 914 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: think this is it. I think we actually did find this. Daniel, 915 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: why did you do that? I think you mean my 916 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 1: colleague who broke them and your friend also broke it 917 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,280 Speaker 1: because he told or she told you where the bump was. Again, 918 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: this is a story about a colleague of mine who 919 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: broke these rules. Everybody was breaking the rules. Man, these 920 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: were the worst kept secrets at certain Oh man, I 921 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: have less confidence now, Daniel in the Higgs Boson. Well, 922 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: I was not directly involved in producing that plot, so 923 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: it couldn't influence me in neither was he. Oh so 924 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: you were like literally a league like he learned some 925 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: secret and you you phone the other team again, this 926 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: unnamed colleague of mine, he was we saw bumps in 927 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: the same place, and so that's the moment I started 928 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: to believe it. And then we just kept collecting were 929 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 1: more data, and the bumps got bigger and bigger, and 930 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: they lined up right on top of each other. And 931 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 1: then in late June we had enough events, enough collisions 932 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: at all the same place that we could say, statistically 933 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: it was very, very unlikely for this to be random chance. 934 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: Random chance can produce anything, but the odds were like 935 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: one in millions that just random chance could produce all 936 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: these bumps that exactly the same place. So that was 937 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: the day we said, all right, we decided that now 938 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: we have discovered. And that was July four, And that 939 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: was j and there was big announcement at CERN, and 940 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,359 Speaker 1: everybody knew it was gonna be the announcement the next day. 941 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: So starting like July three, everybody at CERN was like 942 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 1: standing in line to get into that auditorium and sleeping 943 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,360 Speaker 1: in line, like camping out. You know, this is like 944 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: Comic Con, but Nerd edition at CERN and super conducting 945 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: super Nerds exactly, And people really wanted to be in 946 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 1: that room. And they invited Peter Higgs and he was 947 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 1: there and the director sir and give a tall talk, 948 00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,120 Speaker 1: and you know, for the people in the audience. We 949 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: are knew the results, we have been involved in producing 950 00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: them and preparing them. But it was just a moment 951 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,919 Speaker 1: we all got together and basically said, all right, let's 952 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: high five and declare that we have found this thing 953 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: after decades and decades of searching email. The rest of 954 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,480 Speaker 1: the world is like the Higgs What wait, do you 955 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: have a collider in Geneva? Nobody told us about this. 956 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: You know, the team at certain is really good at PR. 957 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,879 Speaker 1: They are very good at popularizing the science and making 958 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: people understand it. And that's why I think the Higgs 959 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: boson is one of the most famous particles is because 960 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: it's been well sold to the public as an exciting discovery. Also, 961 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: it was the Obama years. You know, we were we 962 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: were happy about all good years. That's right, and we 963 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: believed scientists. That's right. Then that gets us to today. 964 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 1: So now these days, we know that the Higgs field exists, 965 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: and that the Higgs boson exists, and it makes all 966 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: the equations balance out, and and now we have a 967 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: more complete picture of the yeiverse and the particles in it. 968 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: That's right. And now we know where the Higgs is. 969 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,800 Speaker 1: It about a hundred and twenty five GV and number 970 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: we didn't know before we measured it, and we can 971 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,240 Speaker 1: study all of its properties. We can see it turning 972 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 1: into this kind of particle in that kind of particle, 973 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 1: and we can try to measure its properties in great 974 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: detail and see is this the particle that Higgs predicted 975 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 1: or is it a weird version of it? Are there 976 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,720 Speaker 1: more Higgs bosons out there? And so the search doesn't 977 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: stop just because we found it. Now we're studying in 978 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: gory detail and trying to see if it has any 979 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: more secrets to reveal. All right, well, again, also pretty 980 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: exciting and a good insight into how signs works little 981 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: by little through competition and friendly breaking of the rules. 982 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: And anybody on the Atlas Experiment who heard that, please 983 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: forgive me breaking the rules. But I bet you did too. 984 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,839 Speaker 1: You're like, hopefully nobody's listening to this podcast, not a 985 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 1: couple of hundred thousand or ten thousand people. Well, I'm 986 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: sure you know there's like you know, podcast hosts, podcast 987 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: listener confidence reality. Absolutely, I mean we assume that, so 988 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm trusting you with that story, folks. All right, Well, 989 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,959 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, Thanks for telling us a story. 990 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,319 Speaker 1: Daniel We hope you enjoyed that. See you next time. 991 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain 992 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio or 993 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,919 Speaker 1: more podcast For my heart Radio, visit the I heart 994 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,600 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 995 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:22,360 Speaker 1: favorite shows.