Speaker 1: The men have a small hill event, a big hill event,
Speaker 1: and a team event, so they have three chances for medals,
Speaker 1: and we were just asking for one. Hi. Everyone, today,
Speaker 1: I'm bringing you something a little different, because this winter
Speaker 1: I'm doing something a little different. I'm super excited to
Speaker 1: be reporting on the two thousand eighteen Olympic Winter Games
Speaker 1: for NBC. I was sent all the way to pyeong Chang,
Speaker 1: South Korea to co host the opening ceremony. Did you
Speaker 1: see it? Did you like it? Anyways, because there are
Speaker 1: so many interesting stories coming out of the two thousand
Speaker 1: eighteen Games, I knew I wanted to share at least
Speaker 1: one of them with you on our podcast. So I
Speaker 1: teamed up with another podcast called The Podium. It's the
Speaker 1: official podcast of the Olympic Winter Games from NBC Sports
Speaker 1: and Vox Media. And hey, just a little slice of
Speaker 1: the Katie Current podcast for good measure. Now by design,
Speaker 1: this is an episode of Olympic Proportions. It's also the
Speaker 1: latest chapter in our Wonder Women's series. So in that
Speaker 1: big league spirit, we're not highlighting just one woman this week,
Speaker 1: but an entire team, the American women's ski jumping team
Speaker 1: that is these amazing athletes have had to fight for
Speaker 1: recognition and resources. So, with a hat tip to our
Speaker 1: friends over at the Podium Podcast, here's the story of
Speaker 1: the scrappy, resilient US women's ski jumping team. This week,
Speaker 1: women from around the world soared above the crowd at
Speaker 1: the Alpensiest Ski Jumping Center. This is just the second
Speaker 1: time in Olympic history that women could compete in ski jumping.
Speaker 1: The first was in two thousand fourteen. Getting the women's
Speaker 1: event into the Olympics took a lot of work, and
Speaker 1: not just physical training. Men have competed in Olympic ski
Speaker 1: jumping since the international competition began way back in nineteen
Speaker 1: and the International Ski Federation started sponsoring additional competitions for
Speaker 1: them the following year. Women had to wait for nearly
Speaker 1: eighty years until two thousand three. That's when the International
Speaker 1: Ski Federation finally sponsored their first women's ski jumping competition.
Speaker 1: The worldwide spotlight raised the profile of their sport, and
Speaker 1: women hoped that would give them a shot to compete
Speaker 1: at the two thousand ten Winner Games in Vancouver. All
Speaker 1: the girls got together and we were at my house.
Speaker 1: That's Jessica Jerome. In two thousand and six. She was
Speaker 1: nineteen years old. She had been competing in ski jumping
Speaker 1: for years, but not at the Olympic Games. We called
Speaker 1: into this conference call and it was at night because
Speaker 1: it was in the morning in Europe, and they said
Speaker 1: that it was not going to be considered, and we
Speaker 1: we were piste. Jerome grew up in Park City, Utah.
Speaker 1: When It's g Jumping Club came to her elementary school,
Speaker 1: she begged her parents to let her sign up. Initially,
Speaker 1: my dad was not having it. He remembered the agony
Speaker 1: of defeat in the wide world of sports. For you
Speaker 1: young in's out there. That was a sports broadcast that
Speaker 1: aired regularly on ABC. It's this awful clip of a
Speaker 1: guy crashing on a ski jump. Then the Yugoslabian youngster's
Speaker 1: gonna experience you're telling his first jump, looking at whoa baby?
Speaker 1: What a terrible fault. And so he said, there's no
Speaker 1: am letting my daughter do that. And my mom was like,
Speaker 1: hold up, this is this is a great opportunity to
Speaker 1: get them involved in the local community, and it's cheaper
Speaker 1: than babysitting, so let's do it. Her mom went out
Speaker 1: and Jerome fell in love with the sport. She got
Speaker 1: really close to her teammates. From the beginning. Her club
Speaker 1: included boys and girls, all training together. We were on
Speaker 1: the hill together, we were in the gym together, we
Speaker 1: were doing field exercises, in playo metrics together. We had
Speaker 1: the same coaches, we we all did everything together. But
Speaker 1: that change when Jerome started competing. Her male counterparts just
Speaker 1: had more opportunities. There were all these levels of international
Speaker 1: competition for men, so the way the competition's work and
Speaker 1: ski jumping is. The highest level is obviously the Olympics,
Speaker 1: but there is a World Cup circuit that goes on
Speaker 1: every year, and then there were a bunch of competitions
Speaker 1: for less experienced mail jumpers. But for women there was
Speaker 1: just one international competition. It was just the only opportunity
Speaker 1: we had to compete against women from other countries. But
Speaker 1: to get to that one competition, Jerome and her teammates
Speaker 1: had to overcome another obsta coal funding. The boys got
Speaker 1: to focus on training, but the girls were scrambling to
Speaker 1: fundraise and ask for donations. Everything was coming out of
Speaker 1: pocket from either ourselves or our parents, or donations to
Speaker 1: try to cut costs. My father is an airline pilot,
Speaker 1: so I had flight benefits. He did, my my mom did,
Speaker 1: and then we would give my teammates buddy passes and
Speaker 1: we would fly stand by to competitions in Europe, which
Speaker 1: is not ideal because there there was an instance where
Speaker 1: we were stuck in the Munich airport for five days
Speaker 1: because we couldn't get home, but it was the cheapest
Speaker 1: way that we could do it. The standby flights save
Speaker 1: the team a lot of money, but they also cause
Speaker 1: some problems because when you fly stand by, your baggage
Speaker 1: is not a priority. So when we would fly with
Speaker 1: our skis, if anything happened to our skis or any
Speaker 1: of our bags, our equipment, it was gone. Jerome remembers
Speaker 1: this one competition in Slovenia when she and her teammates
Speaker 1: were left in a tough spot between the American girls.
Speaker 1: We were all missing something, so I was missing a
Speaker 1: bag with my skis in my suit. A teammate of
Speaker 1: mine was missing a bag with her boots and her helmet.
Speaker 1: And we got together with the girls from the other
Speaker 1: countries and they all loaned us stuff and we ended
Speaker 1: up being able to compete in almost any other sport.
Speaker 1: This would be crazy, think about it. The American team
Speaker 1: was going to their rivals and asking for help before
Speaker 1: a major competition. But Jerome says this was the Norman
Speaker 1: women's ski jumping. They had a larger purpose. They all
Speaker 1: wanted the sport to succeed. We had this mindset within
Speaker 1: women's ski jumping, despite being competitive with these other countries,
Speaker 1: we were all friends and we were all always trying
Speaker 1: to help each other are out because we all had
Speaker 1: one common goal, which was growing the sport and being
Speaker 1: recognized to be in the Olympics. And we knew that if,
Speaker 1: for example, the Norwegian girls couldn't compete that weekend, it
Speaker 1: looked bad across the whole sport. It wasn't about personal results.
Speaker 1: Part of trying to get this sport into the Olympics
Speaker 1: is there needs to be more competitors and there needs
Speaker 1: to be growth. So even still today, I see this
Speaker 1: camaraderie among women ski jumpers that I have never seen
Speaker 1: in any other sport. It might seem obvious why athletes
Speaker 1: would want their events in the Olympics, right, the medals,
Speaker 1: the glory, the chance to represent their country, but it
Speaker 1: can mean much more than that. Going to the Olympics
Speaker 1: gives athletes all these other opportunities for sponsorship, so getting
Speaker 1: women ski jumping into the Games would mean that Jerome
Speaker 1: could concentrate on training instead of fundraising. Jo Home and
Speaker 1: her teammates hoped their sacrifices would pay off for the
Speaker 1: two thousand ten Games, but when the International Olympic Committee
Speaker 1: announced the new events for that year, women's ski jumping
Speaker 1: was not among them. We weren't asking for something that
Speaker 1: was ridiculous and would have cost millions of dollars. The
Speaker 1: venues were there, the ski jumps were built, the events
Speaker 1: for men, they were happening, and we just wanted one
Speaker 1: day where we could have our event as well. The
Speaker 1: women decided to take their case to court. The Winner
Speaker 1: Games were in Vancouver that year, so their case ended
Speaker 1: up before a panel of judges in British Columbia. We
Speaker 1: were in Vancouver within ten days of the beginning of
Speaker 1: our winter competition season, so while everybody was at home
Speaker 1: training and getting ready to compete, we were sitting in court.
Speaker 1: And at the time, I was really annoyed about it
Speaker 1: because I wanted the luxury of just being an athlete
Speaker 1: and focusing on being the best at ski jumping that
Speaker 1: I could be. I didn't want to have to deal
Speaker 1: with all this other stuff, and I was very envious
Speaker 1: of people in other sports who could just do that.
Speaker 1: They could just focus on what they needed to do
Speaker 1: and they didn't have to be involved in the politics
Speaker 1: of everything. The Canadian court actually ruled in the women's favor,
Speaker 1: sort of. The judge agreed that having the ski jumping
Speaker 1: competition for men and not women was discriminatory, but the
Speaker 1: judge also decided that Canada didn't have jurisdiction over the
Speaker 1: International Olympics Committee. The court couldn't tell the IOC what
Speaker 1: to do. Jerome and her teammates had to wait and
Speaker 1: see if the IOC would change its mind for the
Speaker 1: next Winter Olympics. So on April six, two thousand and eleven,
Speaker 1: they gathered together to listen in on another conference call
Speaker 1: to see if they get their shot in Sochi. Sarah
Speaker 1: Hendrickson was there at just sixteen years old. She was
Speaker 1: a rising star in women's ski jumping, and she knew
Speaker 1: her older teammates had been through a lot to get
Speaker 1: her sport to that point. You know, we could feel
Speaker 1: the tension in the air just because they had been
Speaker 1: told though so many times, so you could almost feel
Speaker 1: that they were just expecting that, like they were never
Speaker 1: really getting their hopes up anymore because they had been
Speaker 1: shut down so many times. When they started to announce
Speaker 1: the new sports that would be added into SOCHY and
Speaker 1: heard women's ski jumping, I mean, it was just I
Speaker 1: think it was relief more than anything, just to finally
Speaker 1: see that green light. Jerome was actually away from her teammates.
Speaker 1: That day, I was in Thailand in an internet cafe,
Speaker 1: and I didn't deliberately planned this vacation over this time,
Speaker 1: but it worked out that way, and I wasn't upset
Speaker 1: about it. And I went to this internet cafe and
Speaker 1: I called in and I listened and they said the
Speaker 1: following sports will be added to program and they said
Speaker 1: women's ski jumping, and I smiled and I hung up,
Speaker 1: and then I went about my day because it wasn't
Speaker 1: like this huge moment for me where I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's finally done. It was like, all right, it's about
Speaker 1: time Jerome and her teammates had done it. Women's ski
Speaker 1: jumping would be part of the Winter Games, but then
Speaker 1: Jerome still had to make the team. More on that
Speaker 1: in a moment. We'll be right back after this word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors and out back to Jessica Jerome and
Speaker 1: her Olympic dreams. We had Olympic trials in Park City
Speaker 1: at the end of December, and it was made for
Speaker 1: TV event that the Americans did, and we had a
Speaker 1: competition for men and women and it was winner gets
Speaker 1: an automatic spot in the Olympics, and I won. It
Speaker 1: didn't really sink in, and I think a couple of
Speaker 1: days later, you know, I was probably driving where I
Speaker 1: was in the shower doing some mundane task and I went,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm going to the Olympics. Jerome came
Speaker 1: in tenth and so chy. She didn't meddle, but she
Speaker 1: did leave a much bigger legacy for her younger teammates
Speaker 1: like Sarah Hendrickson. I'm just so overly thankful for those
Speaker 1: older girls. Hendrickson competed with Jerome is so chy and
Speaker 1: she's representing Team USA once again here in pyeong Chang.
Speaker 1: I was really fortunate with my age and my timing
Speaker 1: and everything coming together perfectly that I almost I don't
Speaker 1: want to say guilty, but I guess there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of guilt that it's like I took something away
Speaker 1: from them that they put so much work into so
Speaker 1: I'm religious and saying that I'm so thankful for those
Speaker 1: girls because they are the ones that you know, paved
Speaker 1: the way for me, and um, that's why I take
Speaker 1: pride in pushing the sport even further so that girls
Speaker 1: behind me can practice more on the hill rather than
Speaker 1: focusing on the politics side of things. But Hendrickson says,
Speaker 1: there are still some battles to fight now. It's kind
Speaker 1: of hitting me harder, how frustrating it is, like our
Speaker 1: prize money is thirty three of men right now, and
Speaker 1: they actually have more competitions than us, and that differential
Speaker 1: is pretty substantial. And you know, we trained just as
Speaker 1: hard as them, and you know what, it's not our
Speaker 1: fault that we were born female. Hendrickson will have plenty
Speaker 1: of help in the fight. Jessica Jerome says that when
Speaker 1: she started competing back in two thousand two, there were
Speaker 1: just a few dozen young women from across the world
Speaker 1: competing and ski jumping. Today in the US alone, right now,
Speaker 1: there are about twenty five girls who are eligible to
Speaker 1: compete in international events. At a club level. There's something
Speaker 1: like two d and twenty now, and that's that's from
Speaker 1: Park City to Steamboat to Lake Placid and all throughout
Speaker 1: the Midwest and even Alaska. And I remember growing up
Speaker 1: and my idols in the sport were all men, and
Speaker 1: recently there's this new wave of young women coming up
Speaker 1: into the sport and they say things like when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, I idolized Danielle or Ashco or I
Speaker 1: idolized a Net Sagin And I just think it's so
Speaker 1: cool that these young women who are starting ski jumping
Speaker 1: have the option they have girls and guys to look
Speaker 1: up to. That's really cool to me. For our second
Speaker 1: and final chapter, today, I sat down with Karen Krauss
Speaker 1: and pyeong Chang. Karen is a New York Times reporter
Speaker 1: who covers sports, and she's out with a new book
Speaker 1: about how Norwich, a tiny Vermont town that is thought
Speaker 1: to have produced more Winter Olympians per capita than anywhere
Speaker 1: else in America has done it. So when Karen and
Speaker 1: I sat down in this beautiful library that's part of
Speaker 1: the hotel I'm staying in in pyeong Chang, the first
Speaker 1: question I asked her was how did she find this
Speaker 1: town of Norwich? How did she discover this story? So
Speaker 1: I was at the soci Olympics four years ago, and
Speaker 1: I got a random reader email saying, I noticed you're
Speaker 1: covering the Olympics. You should check out Hannah Carney's story.
Speaker 1: She's from the small town in Vermont that is an
Speaker 1: Olympic pipeline. Hannah is the most successful in the conventional sense,
Speaker 1: of all the Norwich Olympians, of which there are eleven,
Speaker 1: by the way, in this town of three thousand. She
Speaker 1: won the gold and the women's moguls in two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten, and then the bronze in defense of that title,
Speaker 1: and sochi and so that was how it started, through
Speaker 1: just a reader email, and when I went to the
Speaker 1: town and started interviewing people what became a parent. I
Speaker 1: understood without knowing really anything about Vermont, actually the athletic
Speaker 1: piece of it, because I grew up in Santa Clara
Speaker 1: in the seventies when it was the epicenter of swimming
Speaker 1: in not only the United States but the whole world.
Speaker 1: And so I understood how when you have one or
Speaker 1: two or three really exceptional performers, they can light a
Speaker 1: fire under an entire community and get a lot of
Speaker 1: people inspired and involved. So that piece I sort of
Speaker 1: could understand. What I didn't expect was the parenting piece,
Speaker 1: because what I found with these parents and it was
Speaker 1: so heartening for me because I've become a little disillusioned
Speaker 1: by how much money is just permeated every aspect of sports,
Speaker 1: not even at just the Olympic level, but all the
Speaker 1: way down to the youth level. That it was nice
Speaker 1: to find this community where the parents seem to see
Speaker 1: the bigger picture and pay more than lips service to it,
Speaker 1: so they get their kids in sports and they almost
Speaker 1: have become Olympians by accident. Before I hear more about
Speaker 1: sort of the parenting philosophy, and I really think it's
Speaker 1: a community wide philosophy. It's not just fathers and mothers.
Speaker 1: But it seems to me that it takes a village,
Speaker 1: as Hillary Glinton would say, to create these athletes who
Speaker 1: are really you know, stellar individuals as well. But tell
Speaker 1: me a little bit before we talk about the philosophy
Speaker 1: of Norwich, tell me a little bit about the demographics
Speaker 1: where the town sits. You know, who lives there, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So it's one of the more affluent cities in Vermont.
Speaker 1: It's across the Connecticut River from Dartmouth, which is another
Speaker 1: huge piece of it because it's been able to make
Speaker 1: use of Dartmous resources, its facilities. It's excellent coaches, the
Speaker 1: kids who play sports at Dartmouth will volunteer in the community.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because for all of its affluence, Norwich
Speaker 1: has this communitarian spirit and this generosity of spirit, and
Speaker 1: this feeling that your child is my child, and one
Speaker 1: child's successes, everyone success. And when I was talking to
Speaker 1: social scientists about that, they said, you know, it's really
Speaker 1: quite extraordinary for a down that is a fluent to
Speaker 1: have that, because when you get a measure of wealth,
Speaker 1: you tend to become more isolated. You are behind um
Speaker 1: gated communities, and maybe you are giving your children private
Speaker 1: lessons so they're not in and around their peers. Maybe
Speaker 1: you're taking them out of local schools and putting them elsewhere.
Speaker 1: So the social scientists I talked to said, this is
Speaker 1: really actually amazing that this town, as it's outgrown its
Speaker 1: agrarian roots, has been able to maintain the agrarian ethos
Speaker 1: of you know, we're all in this together. What do
Speaker 1: people in Norwich do for a living. So when the
Speaker 1: first Olympian, Betsy Snipe, came along. In the fifties they
Speaker 1: were mostly farmers, and it has since changed where the
Speaker 1: people in Hanover will refer to Norwich as the bedroom
Speaker 1: community for Hanover, which the Norwich people do not look
Speaker 1: kindly upon because they see themselves as wholly separate. And
Speaker 1: I lived there for six months and can speak to that.
Speaker 1: It is not a bedroom community of Hanover. Even though
Speaker 1: many of the adults in Norwich now are employed by
Speaker 1: the Teaching Hospital or Dartmouth, so the demographic has shifted,
Speaker 1: although you still can find some farms, all organic of course,
Speaker 1: and so they seem to have the best of both worlds.
Speaker 1: I talked to people who live in yurts, I talked
Speaker 1: to people who live in Norwich and don't have indoor plumbing. Um,
Speaker 1: so you let professionals, you have farmers. You have a
Speaker 1: real mixture. Everyone is united in their belief in you know,
Speaker 1: we're all in this together. One of the Olympians, a
Speaker 1: summer Olympian, Katie and eight hundred hundred renner Um Andrew Wheating,
Speaker 1: gave me a quote that I thought summarized the town
Speaker 1: so well. He said, most people it's survival of the fittest,
Speaker 1: and Norwich it's survival of all of us. Reading this book,
Speaker 1: it made me want to move to Norwich. And I
Speaker 1: know somebody wrote a blurb on the back saying, you know,
Speaker 1: be careful, Norwich, everybody's could be moving to your town.
Speaker 1: But it sounds extraordinary. Let's let's get to sort of
Speaker 1: the where sports and community meet. How have they really
Speaker 1: encouraged these Olympians, because, as you said, they have this
Speaker 1: incredible track record of building great athletes without really making
Speaker 1: them be singularly focused on one sport or their sport.
Speaker 1: So it starts so early. They have a no cut
Speaker 1: recreational league, which I didn't really realize until I started
Speaker 1: researching this book how increasingly rare that is. So it
Speaker 1: starts with that their parents, from a very young age,
Speaker 1: try to temper it by letting them know that being
Speaker 1: the best isn't everything. There is that it's more important
Speaker 1: to show good sportsman ship, to be empathetic for those
Speaker 1: who aren't as good as you, to even recognize that
Speaker 1: you have a gift that some aspect of this sport
Speaker 1: comes easy to you and maybe not as easy to others.
Speaker 1: And um, Hannah told me this great story that what
Speaker 1: these no cut leagues did for her was give her
Speaker 1: a friendship group that she would not have otherwise come
Speaker 1: in contact with. These girls that she grew up with
Speaker 1: from kindergarten through sixth grade, who would not have made teams,
Speaker 1: they were not athletically inclined, but she got to know
Speaker 1: them and do you know they're her best friends to
Speaker 1: this day. And when she was in the Olympic bubble
Speaker 1: and struggling and you know, around people who were myopically
Speaker 1: focused on winning and second places, the first loser, these
Speaker 1: women that she had met and these no cut leagues
Speaker 1: were there to pick her up and give her that
Speaker 1: outside perspective of Hannah, you're great, we're proud of you
Speaker 1: that you're even at this level and representing our town
Speaker 1: and just you know, chill out and we'll take you
Speaker 1: to dinner when you get home. And so she said
Speaker 1: that because of this unconditional support, not based on you know,
Speaker 1: how well she was doing, that it enabled her to
Speaker 1: get over disappointments so much faster than she normally would have.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about sort of the parenting philosophy. Obviously you
Speaker 1: can't generalize for every parent in the town, but how
Speaker 1: that creates excellence because you know, the big beef these
Speaker 1: days is parents are too coddling. They're too almost too supportive,
Speaker 1: if you could say, towards their children and not letting
Speaker 1: them understand disappointments. So how do how do the parents
Speaker 1: in this community balance at well? And it's tough and
Speaker 1: and their helicopter parents in Norwich don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: And I totally understand how tough it is for parents.
Speaker 1: It is hard to see your child suffer. It is
Speaker 1: hard to see your child face disappointment. But the thing
Speaker 1: with the Norwich parents is they see sports as a
Speaker 1: piece to the larger puzzle of developing into adulthood. And
Speaker 1: so they see that there are all these life lessons
Speaker 1: to be learned um discipline, delayed gratification, teamwork, taking direction well,
Speaker 1: um perseverance, persistence, resilience, and so they're really committed. I
Speaker 1: they are supportive, but in a hands off way. They
Speaker 1: very much let their kids. The kids are behind the wheel,
Speaker 1: in the driver's seat on this journey. They're writing shotgun.
Speaker 1: That brings me to my next question, Karen, because I
Speaker 1: remember when my girls were little, I talked to someone
Speaker 1: who was a physical education teacher at their school and
Speaker 1: I said, gosh, I think my kids are pretty athletic,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what to do in terms of sports.
Speaker 1: Should they be well rounded and play a lot of
Speaker 1: different sports or would you recommend I really focus on
Speaker 1: one And she said, oh no, I think you should
Speaker 1: do a lot of different sports. Who knows, my kids
Speaker 1: might have been Olympians if I hadn't listened to her. Garrett,
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, But I guess the question is what about
Speaker 1: this multi sport approach, because that is highly unusual. There
Speaker 1: are so many studies saying that you know, kids when
Speaker 1: your bones and joints are developing, and by the way,
Speaker 1: they all develop at different rates, so it's not like
Speaker 1: your joints and bones are all developing together. That if
Speaker 1: you are just doing one sport, a repetitive motion, it
Speaker 1: is causing such a glut of overuse injuries, not to
Speaker 1: mention the emotional, you know, burnout. Um. I was reading
Speaker 1: about doctors who are saying they're doing Tommy John surgery
Speaker 1: on twelve year olds now because kids are pitching and
Speaker 1: pitching and pitching at such a young age. So all
Speaker 1: the scientific research suggests that a multifaceted approach and sports
Speaker 1: is are the best. Now the Norwich kids had no
Speaker 1: choice because there are certain sports you can't do year
Speaker 1: round in Norwich, so you have to change with the seasons.
Speaker 1: And Julia Crass, the slope style skier, her coaches in
Speaker 1: the wake of her really fine performance, and so she
Speaker 1: were saying, you have got to go and do fall
Speaker 1: conditioning with us. Um, we're going to go to South America,
Speaker 1: New Zealand, you need to be with us. And she said, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to lead my team to the soccer state
Speaker 1: championships and I'm gonna get great conditioning and cardiovascular work
Speaker 1: that way. And so she supplemented it with her own training.
Speaker 1: But again there's that sort of push back against the
Speaker 1: what is now known as the system. Well, I was
Speaker 1: going to ask you about that, Karen, because obviously, as
Speaker 1: a sportswriter for the New York Times, you've covered a
Speaker 1: whole slew of Olympians, And how does the approach in
Speaker 1: Norwich contrast with sort of a typical Olympian and and
Speaker 1: what if you gleaned and learned from observing them. So
Speaker 1: I was really heartened that Michael Phelps blurred this book
Speaker 1: because here he is a twenty eight time Olympic medalist,
Speaker 1: and he was a kid who he would have liked
Speaker 1: to have done more sports when he was young. He did,
Speaker 1: I think play some lacrosse. I think he actually played
Speaker 1: one year at football, which is crazy to consider. But
Speaker 1: he got funneled very early into swimming, swimming, swimming because UM,
Speaker 1: when he was twelve years old, his coach Bob Bowman said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think you have the talent and
Speaker 1: the potential to do something that no one's done. But
Speaker 1: this is what it's gonna take. It's going to take
Speaker 1: training and swimming seven days a week for um ten years, unending.
Speaker 1: And so look, his success you cannot argue with, but
Speaker 1: a huge piece of it went missing, and that was
Speaker 1: the personal development. Is Michael Phelps mad at his mom?
Speaker 1: Is he mad at not being sort of more more multidimensional?
Speaker 1: And and tell me about some of the you don't
Speaker 1: have to name names, but at least some of the
Speaker 1: other athletes who you feel have not benefited from this
Speaker 1: in the long term. I will tell you. I did
Speaker 1: a story on Michael back in September when he talked
Speaker 1: about the anxiety and depression that he's suffered. And there
Speaker 1: there were times after UM, a couple of his most
Speaker 1: successful Olympics where he was almost suicidal. And that's the
Speaker 1: piece of it that I think gets lost in the
Speaker 1: performance side of it, like, oh, he won eight gold
Speaker 1: medals and lived happily ever after. But no, it's so
Speaker 1: much more complicated than that. And so I think if
Speaker 1: Michael had it to do over again, he would try
Speaker 1: to find a little more balance where he was developing
Speaker 1: as a person. He never attended college. Um, he took
Speaker 1: a couple of classes at Michigan. But he told me
Speaker 1: something that was so sobering, Katie. He said that, imagine
Speaker 1: from the time year fifteen, which is when he made
Speaker 1: his first Olympic team, you are never able to make
Speaker 1: a first impression on someone because everyone you meet already
Speaker 1: thinks they know everything about you, because you already have
Speaker 1: this public profile. You've dealt with that. Say, I can
Speaker 1: relate to that a little bit. And you know what
Speaker 1: that's like. I think, you know obviously when I became
Speaker 1: a public person in my early thirties. But you think
Speaker 1: about these kids, and you think about I think about
Speaker 1: life for them after the Olympics. When I see these
Speaker 1: extraordinary athletes, I think what happens after this? Because I wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, after the cameras leave and the gold medal
Speaker 1: or the silver or the bronze or no medal. You know,
Speaker 1: they have these memories, which I'm sure extraordinary, but I think, gosh,
Speaker 1: where do you go from here? And if you don't
Speaker 1: fall into like being a commentator on television, I think
Speaker 1: it must be really hard. You know, Michael, everybody thought
Speaker 1: they knew who he was before he knew who he was,
Speaker 1: and so his self identity and as much as he
Speaker 1: had one was as Michael Phelps Olympic champion. So what
Speaker 1: happens when you are a twenty eight time medallist and
Speaker 1: you retire and now you're not Michael Phelps Olympic Champion.
Speaker 1: You know, you're that's in the past. So what do
Speaker 1: you do to reinvent yourself and to get back to
Speaker 1: the Norwich athletes. That's where they really have this figured
Speaker 1: out in a way that I just wish. I wish
Speaker 1: every Olympian could read the Mike Collin Jeff Hastings chapter
Speaker 1: because these were two ski jumpers who made the Olympic
Speaker 1: team in eighty four and they are in their fifties
Speaker 1: and are still so involved in ski jumping in their community.
Speaker 1: They work really closely with the high school team in Hanover.
Speaker 1: Imagine going to a high school ski jumping meet and
Speaker 1: seeing Jeff Hastings, who finished fourth in four it remains
Speaker 1: the highest finish by a US born ski jumper in
Speaker 1: Olympics ever, And he's doing the public address, he's announcing,
Speaker 1: and then at the bottom of the hill, grooming the
Speaker 1: hill is Mike Collin, who set a world flying record
Speaker 1: in five. When you're a teenager and you see two
Speaker 1: of the best athletes in your sport that this country
Speaker 1: has ever produced, and they're not acting as if they're
Speaker 1: better than you, They are in effects serving you. They
Speaker 1: are making your meat runs smoothly. They are making sure
Speaker 1: the hill is smooth for you. They're doing the public
Speaker 1: address announcing. What kind of message does that send that
Speaker 1: you can be an Olympian but you're still very much
Speaker 1: a part of the community. And I think it helps
Speaker 1: the Olympians too, because instead of feeling so isolated when
Speaker 1: they're done, they're just welcome back into this cocoon of
Speaker 1: community that they've always in a part of. What did
Speaker 1: they end up doing after the Olympics. So Mike works
Speaker 1: in finance and he said, you know, I had no idea,
Speaker 1: but he had to raise money to keep his career
Speaker 1: going because this might be um, this might be a
Speaker 1: news flash to people, but ski jumpers do not make
Speaker 1: much money in the United States, so he was actually
Speaker 1: getting poorer by continuing his sports. So his dad said,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to support yourself. You know, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm going to support you in all the emotional ways,
Speaker 1: but I it's up to you to finance the sports.
Speaker 1: So he had to fundraise and do all of this
Speaker 1: stuff that at the time seemed really onerous. And then
Speaker 1: he said, oh my gosh, it prepared me so well
Speaker 1: for my job and finance. You know, I can't let
Speaker 1: you go without talking to you about the community too,
Speaker 1: and how important this this is to building really great people,
Speaker 1: not just great athletes. And there's a woman you talk
Speaker 1: about who is the librarian of the town named Beth Reynolds,
Speaker 1: and you know the story of how she shapes these
Speaker 1: young minds I thought was so moving. So she gets
Speaker 1: to know the kids because they come into the library
Speaker 1: a lot. She gets to know their interests and so
Speaker 1: when they come in, she will suggest books that they
Speaker 1: might enjoy, knowing what their interests are like, she'll maybe
Speaker 1: suggests something that's a little bit outside their comfort zone,
Speaker 1: and so she's broadening their worlds without them even knowing it.
Speaker 1: They think they're getting a really cool book from Mrs Reynolds.
Speaker 1: You know, they're really excited. And she still keeps in
Speaker 1: touch with these kids when they come back from college
Speaker 1: and have their own kids. And there's a lovely PostScript
Speaker 1: which again just tells you so much about the DNA
Speaker 1: of the people in this town. Hannah. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten, after she won the gold medal um the
Speaker 1: owner of the general store was so excited he made
Speaker 1: up these bumper stickers exalting her event and her gold medal. Well.
Speaker 1: He made a couple hundred dollars profit and felt terrible, like,
Speaker 1: I can't keep this profit. This is Hannah's money. So
Speaker 1: he gives the check to Hannah, who immediately with no
Speaker 1: prompting or prodding from anybody, this was her own idea.
Speaker 1: She marches over to the library with that check, gives
Speaker 1: it to Beth Reynolds and says, here, I got this money.
Speaker 1: Could you just use it to buy sports books that
Speaker 1: you think teenage girls would be interested in, or that
Speaker 1: would you know, spark their interest in sports. So again,
Speaker 1: how many athletes do you know what that would have
Speaker 1: been their first thought of, Oh, I just got this
Speaker 1: unexpected check for a couple hundred dollars. I'm going to
Speaker 1: take it over to the librarians so she can buy books.
Speaker 1: Before we go, you mentioned how you were be coming
Speaker 1: dismayed by the amount of money and in sports, but
Speaker 1: you even said at the level of kids, what kind
Speaker 1: of money are you talking about when it comes to
Speaker 1: kids in sports? I mean, I knew that at the
Speaker 1: Olympic level or at the professional level there is just
Speaker 1: a sports industrial complex, but what about kids? That sports
Speaker 1: industrial complex is perfectly worded. Um. So this is what
Speaker 1: I'm seeing is that sports is becoming, like so many
Speaker 1: other things in our society, and activity for those who
Speaker 1: have money, and if you don't have money, you're left out. Um.
Speaker 1: I went to a swimming an age group swimming last month.
Speaker 1: This is the very bottom run of the competitive level, Katie.
Speaker 1: I saw eight, nine, ten eleven year olds wearing two
Speaker 1: d fifty three dollar high tech suits. Um. It's as
Speaker 1: simple as that. Their parents, however, well meaning thinking like
Speaker 1: oh well, if I buy them the most expense of suits.
Speaker 1: I want to do everything I can so that they
Speaker 1: will be successful. But at eight, nine, ten, eleven, they
Speaker 1: should just be learning to a love the water, love competing,
Speaker 1: get their stroke technique down. I mean I saw some
Speaker 1: of these suits. They look like, um, they had sharp
Speaker 1: pay skin because they just could not fill them out.
Speaker 1: These poor children. But it goes beyond that of just
Speaker 1: the private coaching and the traveling teams and all of
Speaker 1: this is so expensive. And you know, here's the big
Speaker 1: lie that we probably in the media don't make clear enough.
Speaker 1: There are far more Olympic athletes living near poverty than
Speaker 1: there are making millions of dollars. The Lindsay's and the
Speaker 1: Michael's and the Michaela's, they really are the exception, not
Speaker 1: the rule. There are so many more athletes like Tim Tetra,
Speaker 1: a combined Nordic um racer who is from Norwich. She
Speaker 1: said that one year the most he ever made in
Speaker 1: a single year was twenty eight thousand dollars off his sport,
Speaker 1: and some years he made less than fifteen thousands. So
Speaker 1: I wish parents could take a step back and go,
Speaker 1: you know, my kid, if he or she turns out
Speaker 1: to be the next MICHAELA. Schiffrin or Michael Phelps fantastic.
Speaker 1: But even if she or he doesn't, there's so many
Speaker 1: great things that can come from sports, and let's you know,
Speaker 1: take a step back. This book is giving parents permission
Speaker 1: to exhale and to like reign in the insanity that
Speaker 1: has overtaken youth sports to where the kids are losing
Speaker 1: their childhoods, the parents are losing their minds. It doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be this way. If you wanted to give
Speaker 1: any town, or any family, or any community advice, then
Speaker 1: what would you say is the secret sauce of Norwich
Speaker 1: that they really could it adapt realistically to their parenting
Speaker 1: and to their attitudes about competition, a communitarian spirit and boy,
Speaker 1: in this time of divisiveness and discord, we all could
Speaker 1: use to be a little more community oriented and we
Speaker 1: oriented as opposed to me oriented. So all of us,
Speaker 1: no matter our stature or position, we all have something
Speaker 1: that we can give to someone else, whether it's time, money, expertise,
Speaker 1: even little things. Mike Colling got started in scheme because
Speaker 1: Jeff Hastings outgrew his jumping skis and gave them to Mike.
Speaker 1: You know, a simple gesture, but look at it spawned
Speaker 1: an Olympic career, and parents, I think we need to
Speaker 1: stop looking at sports as a zero sum game where
Speaker 1: from my child to succeed, your child must fail because
Speaker 1: your child is in the way of my child's success,
Speaker 1: and realize we're all in this together. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: you can be petitive, but also remember that at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, sportsmanship matters. You can help others
Speaker 1: and still succeed. And in fact, a lot of people
Speaker 1: find a lot more happiness when they get outside of
Speaker 1: themselves and do something good for someone else and that
Speaker 1: you know, makes them feel better than any metal would.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the piece of it that Norwich
Speaker 1: has that I wish that we could take out and
Speaker 1: spread through communities, or at least start the conversation, are
Speaker 1: you going to be moving to Norwich, Vermont permanently? Although
Speaker 1: I you know, they probably have, I don't know whether
Speaker 1: they want to, um, you know, bless me or curse
Speaker 1: me at this point if I'm bringing all this attention
Speaker 1: to their town because they're not attention seekers. I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I talked to Jeff Hastings and Mike
Speaker 1: Collins separately, they each told me, well, a book. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm happy to help you and talk with you, but
Speaker 1: I can't imagine you'll more than one or two pages.
Speaker 1: They just don't see themselves as extraordinary. They the town
Speaker 1: collectively and the individuals in it see themselves as ordinary
Speaker 1: people living ordinary lives. And maybe that's something we should
Speaker 1: all take away from it too. Words to Live by
Speaker 1: Karen Krauts. The book is called Norwich, One Tiny Vermont Town,
Speaker 1: Secret to Happiness and excellent must read. This is Katie speaking,
Speaker 1: I think for every parent, and certainly for people who
Speaker 1: love sports but also love their kids and want to
Speaker 1: make sure that they're happy and healthy throughout their lives,
Speaker 1: not just during one chapter. You can hear more from
Speaker 1: me throughout the two thousand eighteen Winter Olympics On the
Speaker 1: Networks of NBC, Jonathan Hirsch produces The Podium, the official
Speaker 1: podcast of the Olympic Winter Games, along with executive producer
Speaker 1: Nische kerwa extra specially well thanks to senior producer Jillian
Speaker 1: Weinberger for producing the heck out of this story, and
Speaker 1: thanks as usual to my producer Gianna Palmer and audio
Speaker 1: engineer Jared O'Connell. And lastly thanks to Rebecca Chapman, John
Speaker 1: how Aileen Socol and Tess Quinlan. You can find more
Speaker 1: episodes of the Podium on Stitcher or Apple Podcasts. You
Speaker 1: can watch the Winter Olympics on the Networks of NBC,
Speaker 1: and you can stream every event live on NBC Olympics
Speaker 1: dot Com and the NBC Sports app. As I mentioned
Speaker 1: in the break, don't skip our ads people, you might
Speaker 1: miss something. We'll be away next week. Come on, give
Speaker 1: me a break. I need to recover from this trip,
Speaker 1: but we'll be back to our regularly scheduled programming the
Speaker 1: week after that. Talk to you soon everyone. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: As always,