WEBVTT - Blood Soaked Startups 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:06.880 It's five thirty seven am in Silicon Valley and you're 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:23.400 listening to Night Call. Hello, and welcome to Night Call, 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.800 a podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. We've 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.440 got it here together to defeat death. We're going to 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:37.519 defeat loneliness and strange days. We're going to make the 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.120 night last forever with just a small vial of blood. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.680 We are all Elizabeth Holmes, uh, but I'm also Molly 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:52.800 Lambert with me today I'm Tesla Lynch and over in Austin, Texas. Today, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:59.160 we have Emily Yoshida at the aforementioned Yoshida Innovation Hut 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.200 in south By, Southwest. What are we cooking up at 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.560 the Innovation Hut today? Okay, we can't do this the 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.200 entire I'm quite a bit over for now. We can 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.480 bring it back. I don't think I might ever be 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:19.200 able to stop. It's really why are we talking this way? Guys? Well, 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.600 we all watched the Inventor Out for Blood and Silicon Valley, 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:28.440 which is going to be HBO the monday that you 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.680 hear this. I suppose it will be on your TV 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.400 or on your parents HBO account that we saw it 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.800 in advance using the time Machine, Elizabeth Holmes invented as child. 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.039 Just to clear something up really quick, this is not 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.160 a sponsored post. We were so excited to see this 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.840 documentary that we requested a screener, and so we're not 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.160 being sponsored. We were just really excited to see this 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.720 and it's really good access journalism. Man could not have 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.760 been more excited. We couldn't get Night Call into Cats 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.880 for free, but we could get the Elizabeth Tom's documentary 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.320 before we get into the Inventor. Can I give you 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:12.040 guys a download quick? On the scene Austin, Texas? Yeah, sure, 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.360 can we get Can we get a moment minute about 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.200 south By South? Yeah? A south By second. I'm sure 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.160 that's already a thing. I'm sure somebody else has already 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:21.960 said that, So I feel gross free in saying it. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.760 But I'm really just on movies here. It's I've actually 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.400 mercifully stayed away from a lot of the like more 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.280 aggressive brand experiences and stuff like that. Although I did 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.880 see like a very forlorn like kind of big RV 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.639 with sort of the tent awning thing sticking out of 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.440 it for Pizza Hut, but it was like way in 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.280 East Austin or not like East East Austin. But it 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.600 was like kind of away from everything. And I think 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:51.200 that there was like a Pizza Hut activation at Sundance 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.799 this year that I never went to, but I heard 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:59.280 about it. So Pizza Hut is on the hunt for pizza. Yeah, 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.000 Pizza Hut. I did did you guys ever do? As 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:03.760 a child? Book it where you would eat read a 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.680 bunch of books to get a free Pizza Hut pizza, 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.720 Pizza Hut pizza. Sorry that producer is giving a thumbs up, 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:13.280 we all, I'm just saying it was the original brand activation. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.880 It was like trick smart kids who are like, I'm 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.680 going to read all these books and I get a 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:22.040 reward back to the Elizabeth Holmes place and then you 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.519 get like a free personal pan pizza and you're a kid. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.120 It was the best pizza as a kid. In fact, 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.720 I didn't come around to pizza until Molly and I 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.440 started eating the bacon cheeseburger pizza from Domino. The bacon 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.320 cheeseburger is that like like a cowboy pizza? Is that 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.240 what we were talking about? What's a cowboy pizza? Like 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.600 a pizza with ground beef on it? And this is 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.280 a yeah, and but also bacon. It also had bacon. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.680 sounds like it should be Midwestern. Yeah, I mean, I'm 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.240 sure it has its origins, but we digress. Tell us 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.760 about Austin. We're just saying we're not above trash pizza, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.000 Little Caesar's, any trash pizza that wants to sponsor Night Call. 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.960 I'm gonna draw the line at Dominoes because I love 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.040 domino Oh my god, no, I will. Actually they've remade it, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.600 like I guess they like changed their recipes last time 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.080 I had a Dominoes, So maybe I would love your 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.320 cheap what's your cheap slice of choice? My cheap slice 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.039 of joy? I guess you live in New York citech. 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:22.800 I live in New York City. Also, I don't eat 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:27.919 pizza anymore because you're lactose intolerant. Yeah. But but but 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.880 now I've realized that I can order two boots like 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.680 an entire pizza, Like they actually delivered in my apartment. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.320 So I will occasionally get like their vegan pizza delivered, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.280 which is it feels like a real treat. Feels super 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.200 super debauchrous to have a pizza like every time it comes. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.920 I'm like, look, it's a pizza to your house and 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.920 it's here. Now he's the most exciting thing about being 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.680 an adult. He's ordering pizza, yeah, being like I want 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.640 a pizza. I can just order one now home alone. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.320 But you can order anything now. Yeah, it doesn't have 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.360 to be pizza. We'll see I order everything, Like under 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.120 the Sun. I just never get a pizza because I 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.760 don't eat cheese. But then when I get a pizza, 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.520 it's like I'm a real American now. As nerd girls, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.400 if I had told you you could like earn something 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.919 by reading books would have been a good speaking of 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:27.239 being a totally like overachieving. Uh the middle slash slash 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.679 no no, but well this this ties into theirs, of course. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.599 But I just want to like quickly shout out Book Smart, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.000 which I saw last night. I thought we were going 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.480 straight to the well they're like, I mean like, if 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.960 these characters in this movie took like a bad turn, 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:45.120 then they could easily become little Elizabeth Holmes. But it 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:50.080 is so good. It's it's Olivia Wilde's uh directorial debut 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.640 as a feature filmmaker, And so I feel like you 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.560 always kind of approached these sorts of things like okay, 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.599 we'll see how good this is. But she's been doing 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.200 like music videos and stuff like that for seconds. I've 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.320 always been rooting for her. She directed a Red Hot 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.040 Chili Peppers video, yeah we're referring to, but it was 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.760 all girls skating. It's a great video. Yeah. I mean 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.680 she's like genuinely, she has a lot of vision. She 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.520 knows what she's doing and like everybody already loves her 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.200 from when she played Alex on The O of course, yes, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.080 but she's like a real deal director, and like the 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.520 script is so funny. Apparently it's been it was like 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.839 a blacklist script like like ten years ago or something 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.880 like that, so it's really been around for a second, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.240 but then it finally got made after you know, development 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.000 hell or whatever, and it's like it's I mean, I 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.240 wish it would have would not have gone had to 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.160 go through all of that to like, was that your 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.159 favorite South? Well, that was the thing last night where 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:44.960 I was, like I was at the premiere for it. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.160 Most of the stuff I've been seen has been premiers 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.320 in the Paramount Theater with like all the cast and 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.560 crew there, and that's like a very buzzy sort of 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.000 um you can't hear your own thoughts, type of environment 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.200 to be in, and ye you were staying with us. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.440 With us, it was like, yeah, I just I want 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:01.960 to see it again because I feel like it was 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.599 so um, it was so hype in there. I just 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.719 cannot hear my own thoughts. But but with book Smart, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.840 and I was super tired when I went into Book Smart. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.000 But and I was sitting right next. I was there 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:17.440 with Jada Yuan Um, my colleague Slash fifty two Places 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.400 World Traveler Um, and we were both like zonked out 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.600 when we sat down. And then like as soon as 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.920 the credits started, ruling were like, did we just watch 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.560 like the next classic Allah Clueless or Mean Girls or 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:32.920 something like that. Like it felt it felt like a 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.720 really big deal movie to see there. It's really really funny. Um, 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.200 it's like Beanie Seagull and Caitlin Dever or like these 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.240 two overachieving girls who realized like they didn't need to 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.160 overachieve so much because all the like party and kids 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:50.520 and sexually active kids in their high school all got 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.400 into IVY leagues too. So um, they have like one 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:55.720 last night to just so that they can say they 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.720 had fun and high school. So they like try to 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.680 go to all these different parties. It's very kind of 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.400 super bad, like um, one crazy night type thing, but 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.800 it's just so charming and the two leads are so amazing, 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.720 so like I would definitely I'm giving it the Nightcall 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:15.480 Seal of Approval UM in a dance. Yeah, yes, all right, 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:24.760 we accept. Yeah. Today's episode of Nightcall is brought to 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.680 you by Broommate. The mission at Brewmate is to create 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.760 the perfect drinking experience by ensuring every sip of your 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.560 favorite adult beverage is just as refreshing as the first, 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.440 no matter where life takes you. 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Go to broommate dot 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.240 com and beat the heat this summer. That's b r 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:30.640 U m a t e dot com code Nightcall. Something 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:32.480 else that got the night call steal of approval in 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:37.240 advance was the inventor for blood and Silicon Valley. I 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:43.080 think we are just generally interested in sociopaths, especially like 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:48.559 business sociopaths. Yes, I mean she so, Elizabeth Holmes was 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.440 a very very very private person and for some reason 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.240 you can tell that just by looking at her. She 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:59.640 doesn't blink very much. And then we start trying to 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.160 figure out what's so off about her. And first of all, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.480 so that she does a fake voice, which is by 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.360 the way, but it goes there's some mention it that 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.320 she does it when she's like playing herself for an 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.599 interview or something, but like person to person, it was 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.400 it would kind of lesson. I mean, I think she 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.720 has a naturally kind of lower voice, but she really 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.280 plays it up and I don't know or truthers out there. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.400 There was a segment from a podcast that you can 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.040 find on YouTube where she slips and her voice is 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.040 much higher. Yeah. Really, And there's a podcast about it 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.440 that I think people were saying. Also they found like 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.000 people who knew her before and like that's that's new. Um. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.520 But she also wears the Steve Jobs turtlenecks all the time. 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.199 She doesn't blink. I have a pet theory that she's 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.680 maybe wearing color contacts. They're very intense and when they 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.400 show the older pictures of her look like she had 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.280 brown eyes and I was like, wouldn't be wouldn't put 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.680 it past her? Well, the thing that's so jarring in 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.880 it is I mean it kind of skipping forward. First 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.640 of all, this is a documentary by Alex Gibney, who's 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.960 done all of the big HBr documentaries recently. He did 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:14.240 Go Clear Yeah, and and Ron Yeah, the one which interestingly, 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.120 Elizabeth holmes Is father went did that explains it all um? 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.920 And they don't maybe bring that up in the documentary. 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:24.040 I think they've they maybe briefly mention it, but you 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.599 have to, you know, right, But you're like, no, wonder 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:30.559 she's a scammer. She like her dad was a scammer 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.600 and they lost a lot of money apparently, yes, and 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.240 they ran. I mean all of their friends were like 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.760 these kind of luminaries. And I guess that her like 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:44.319 great great grandfather has like a hospital named after she used. 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:49.280 She like used just rich white privilege to scam her 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.120 way to the top of Silicon Valley. But again, it's 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:53.840 like the people on the she put on the board, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.000 none of them were scientists. They were all people kiss 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:02.400 which is your first that's something maybe a miss. He's 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.400 also on the International Olympic Committee. He gets paid to 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.679 go to the Olympics. Um. Yeah, just like a bunch 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.640 of really bad people from politics that were connected to 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.840 her family because she had like DC connections, and then 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.720 she got a bunch of seed money. It was like 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.880 she made the company exist based on this idea that 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.079 she could create a blood test from a pin prick 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.840 sample of blood. Well, for anyone who's not familiar with 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:32.880 Elizabeth Holmes, her company saranos Um is basically the origin 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.200 story is that she was terribly afraid of needles, and 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.520 her mother and aunt or like another family member were 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.839 so afraid of needles that they would faint. So her 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.920 idea is that instead of drawing from the vein, you 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.640 do a pin prick. You get a tiny, tiny sample 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.760 of blood, and then you feed it into this machine 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.800 called the Edison, which later I think she tried to 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.000 rebrand as Mini Lab, which looks like a small, you know, 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.959 printer basically, and that that would be able to run 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.160 on a battery of tests, like two fifty different blood tests. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.760 But in actuality, uh, when this was rolled out, the 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.640 pin prick wasn't enough blood. You actually had to do 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.600 the regular draw, And she was lying when she said 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.000 that the tests were being performed by the Edison, because 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.200 they actually were being performed by the more traditional um 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:24.239 blood testing machines that are big and bought from third partners. 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.960 So yeah, there's a lot of stuff that the documentary 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.920 goes into, like you know, drawing on the irony of 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.600 calling the box the Edison, because so many of like 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.120 Thomas Edison's patents were things that he also did not 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.880 really know how to do, but would say he did 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.680 them and find some way to like, you know, do 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.520 a demo at a World's fair or whatever and make 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.560 people bleed. He's done it. And then and then in 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.840 the background, you know, right, he actually gets there. There's 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.200 a thing I couldn't believe they didn't use in the 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.640 documentary because it's such because they were using other stock 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:01.080 footagey things where I was like waiting for, like here's 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.080 the stock footage about the mechanical Turk, which is like 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:09.720 this famous uh fake automaton. It was like, uh, like 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.040 was supposedly a chess playing robot, I think, and then 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.320 it turned out to be just a guy. Oh, but 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.600 they brought it places and presented it. It's like it's 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.720 a robot that plays chess and like you know, just 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.760 see your moves and like play against you. But it 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.440 was really a guy in a box inside of it, 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.760 like manipulating it. And so anything there's something like that, 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.640 you're kind of like, yeah, you can like maybe trick 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.640 people into thinking it works in like your lab environment. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.280 But that was like there are so many things about it. Yeah, 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.400 this is all the science version of the stuff we 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:43.440 were talking about last week with the psychics and spirituality. 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.120 It's like, take advantage of the stuff that people want 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.360 to believe in, and you make it just credible enough 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.040 that they'll look over any of the like cracks or 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.560 inconsistencies or something, because people really wanted this, like it 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.960 would have been like a real disruptor of the entire 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.480 diagnostics into but they show like there's a professor immediately 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.800 who's like, you can't do that, it won't work, you know, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.720 And she had declined to kind of work with Elizabeth 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.080 Holmes on the project and passed her on to someone else, 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.160 and then that person got taken in by the crazy eyes. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.680 A lot of people got a lot of old white 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.320 men especially taken in. And the professor is amazing though, 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.680 because she's so like I like, she does not give anywhere. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.960 He's a good character of the documentary. Yeah, she's the one. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.240 She's one of the good people. Um, everybody else gassed 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.440 up Elizabeth Holmes because she was like the perfect embodiment 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:45.680 of what Silicon Valley wants to believe about itself. And well, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.000 she was one of the only female like CEOs in 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.680 one of these disruptive sector like sector disrupting industries, and 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.640 so there was a lot of incentive to play that 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.600 up for you know, she can hear she bought her 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:02.800 way in, but like so did the rest of them, 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.439 and like, uh, that was the thing too, is when 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.320 they were like, well everybody liked all the move fast 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.320 and break things, but like you can't do that in medicine, 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.359 And I'm like, you shouldn't do that in other things either. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.719 Like it's always just like breaking labor laws, you know, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:18.840 is what it always it's, well, that's what the break 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:24.199 things like with. Yeah, like Uber is also like a 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.920 big fucked up company that like just keep secrets about itself. 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.800 All these companies are just like, well, we can't tell you. 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.480 What's really interesting about the threat posed by Sarainos was 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.600 eventually um. Towards the end of the documentary, they talked 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.879 about how people were coming in to be tested for 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.439 syphilis and nobody was really trained there. That was the 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.320 only test they could get the machine to do was 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.960 to But it's also like the separation of the carpet world, 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.160 which was like the you know, kind of slick Silicon valley, 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.720 like Elizabeth Holmes was like wandering the halls and this 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.280 glossy building and then the tile floors where the lab 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.960 technicians were working. And I think it was you know, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.680 they're like in the science realm that people finally came 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.200 forward and we're like, hey, the science is bullshit, Like 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.120 I would not trust these test results. No one should 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.840 trust these test results. It was you know, yeah, it 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.280 wasn't in the documentary, but um, I think it wasn't 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.959 a vanity fair article about her. Maybe there have been 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.119 a bunch of articles obviously over the past year or so, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.399 of which we read, all of which we read last night. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.240 But about her dog. She has a psychic Yeah, Balto 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:29.560 the Siberian husky, who she told everyone was a wolf. 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.600 But he would bring him to work and he would 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.800 contaminate samples with by like shedding, and he wasn't house broken, 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:37.920 and I was just like peeing everywhere all over the place. 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.600 She would just pretend it wasn't happening. And I think 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.359 that's just her general attitude to life. And it takes 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.760 you so far. Um, that's the whole thing is. It's 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.720 just like people would come to her and be like, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.280 it's not working, it's never going to work, and she 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.480 was just like, you're not trying. She was impenetrable, and 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.119 she wouldn't she wouldn't disclose any of the mechanics of 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.360 the machines that she had designed or you know, had 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:05.680 kind of used other people's ingenuity to help design. I 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.600 think that was one of the people who she worked with, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.399 Ian Gibbons, who was one of the scientists that you know, 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.720 she kind of took some of his work and brought 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.720 him on the board, and he eventually committed suicide. Um, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.840 which that was real sad. It was super sad. And 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.440 his widow you know, talked about how Elizabeth Holmes had 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.400 called up after he died and instead of offering her condolences, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.280 was like, Hey, I'm gonna need everything all of his 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.800 paperwork that related to Saranos because I don't wanted to 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.840 get out. Yeah, this was really like late in the 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.600 like I think that the kind of noose was tightening 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.160 around them. So she was getting like super paranoid about everything. Yeah, 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.120 she never breaks in the documentary because they don't get 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:44.959 any like new footage with her. A lot of it 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:50.240 comes from the stuff that Errol Morris And that's the 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:55.119 funny subtext of the documentary is the documentary and feuding 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.960 with Errol's total shade on Errol Moore, so sad to 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.840 Errol Morris's are you sitting there like totally credible, like 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.919 you know, cross arms in this director's chair, like you know, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.679 asking her to tell everybody why she's a genius. And 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.760 it's like, but that footage is incredible because that's the 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:17.280 stuff where you're like, you feel like you're looking at 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.680 this mask of a human because you know, the Natron 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.639 is the thing that he invented. Where it's like, so 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.320 the interviewer, the way that the camera set up, it's 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.800 it's set up so that the person is having an 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.920 eye to eye conversation with the interviewer, but they're also 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.520 looking right into the camera. Um, so you get this, 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.200 like you get the unblinking stair like in all its 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.320 glory with like ring light three sixty lighting around it 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.600 and you can just see like she says something at 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.240 some point and that's an alien. Yeah, but she also 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.639 says like, oh yeah, I only sleep like four hours 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.280 a night, and it's like, maybe you should sleep more, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.960 like you have hired. And I also feel like there's 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.160 such a thing as like sleep psychosis. You can make 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.680 bad decisions, you know, is if anything she says it's true, Well, 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.000 because it's all very buzzy. I mean, she's vegan and 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.520 these are her smoothies and she only the one outfit 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.360 because she doesn't want to think about her look, and 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:14.080 it's like I was thinking about because I was like 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.359 not to keep for her at all because she is 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:18.439 a psycho. But it is that thing where you're like, well, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.320 why is she the only one who gets punished like 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.520 Mark Zuckerberg broke democracy? I think, I mean, but she 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:28.200 didn't even give anyone syphilis yet. But this is not 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.000 this is not what she knows. I mean, Mark Zuckerberg 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.760 definitely kind of like talked his way to a certain position, 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.480 but at a certain point it became something that he 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.280 was well versed in. Whether he made good decisions. I 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.840 don't know if you could argue that. I definitely wouldn't 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.040 say that he had a good grasp on the social 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.680 and moral implications of what he built. But I think 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.080 that he knew how to build a website, whereas Elizabeth 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.080 Holmes like, he doesn't know how to analyze blood, and 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.879 that's like a pretty significant does how to sell that 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.800 blood pill she got? Show that pill the Okay? So 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.240