Speaker 1: It's five thirty seven am in Silicon Valley and you're
Speaker 1: listening to Night Call. Hello, and welcome to Night Call,
Speaker 1: a podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. We've
Speaker 1: got it here together to defeat death. We're going to
Speaker 1: defeat loneliness and strange days. We're going to make the
Speaker 1: night last forever with just a small vial of blood.
Speaker 1: We are all Elizabeth Holmes, uh, but I'm also Molly
Speaker 1: Lambert with me today I'm Tesla Lynch and over in Austin, Texas. Today,
Speaker 1: we have Emily Yoshida at the aforementioned Yoshida Innovation Hut
Speaker 1: in south By, Southwest. What are we cooking up at
Speaker 1: the Innovation Hut today? Okay, we can't do this the
Speaker 1: entire I'm quite a bit over for now. We can
Speaker 1: bring it back. I don't think I might ever be
Speaker 1: able to stop. It's really why are we talking this way? Guys? Well,
Speaker 1: we all watched the Inventor Out for Blood and Silicon Valley,
Speaker 1: which is going to be HBO the monday that you
Speaker 1: hear this. I suppose it will be on your TV
Speaker 1: or on your parents HBO account that we saw it
Speaker 1: in advance using the time Machine, Elizabeth Holmes invented as child.
Speaker 1: Just to clear something up really quick, this is not
Speaker 1: a sponsored post. We were so excited to see this
Speaker 1: documentary that we requested a screener, and so we're not
Speaker 1: being sponsored. We were just really excited to see this
Speaker 1: and it's really good access journalism. Man could not have
Speaker 1: been more excited. We couldn't get Night Call into Cats
Speaker 1: for free, but we could get the Elizabeth Tom's documentary
Speaker 1: before we get into the Inventor. Can I give you
Speaker 1: guys a download quick? On the scene Austin, Texas? Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: can we get Can we get a moment minute about
Speaker 1: south By South? Yeah? A south By second. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that's already a thing. I'm sure somebody else has already
Speaker 1: said that, So I feel gross free in saying it.
Speaker 1: But I'm really just on movies here. It's I've actually
Speaker 1: mercifully stayed away from a lot of the like more
Speaker 1: aggressive brand experiences and stuff like that. Although I did
Speaker 1: see like a very forlorn like kind of big RV
Speaker 1: with sort of the tent awning thing sticking out of
Speaker 1: it for Pizza Hut, but it was like way in
Speaker 1: East Austin or not like East East Austin. But it
Speaker 1: was like kind of away from everything. And I think
Speaker 1: that there was like a Pizza Hut activation at Sundance
Speaker 1: this year that I never went to, but I heard
Speaker 1: about it. So Pizza Hut is on the hunt for pizza. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Pizza Hut. I did did you guys ever do? As
Speaker 1: a child? Book it where you would eat read a
Speaker 1: bunch of books to get a free Pizza Hut pizza,
Speaker 1: Pizza Hut pizza. Sorry that producer is giving a thumbs up,
Speaker 1: we all, I'm just saying it was the original brand activation.
Speaker 1: It was like trick smart kids who are like, I'm
Speaker 1: going to read all these books and I get a
Speaker 1: reward back to the Elizabeth Holmes place and then you
Speaker 1: get like a free personal pan pizza and you're a kid.
Speaker 1: It was the best pizza as a kid. In fact,
Speaker 1: I didn't come around to pizza until Molly and I
Speaker 1: started eating the bacon cheeseburger pizza from Domino. The bacon
Speaker 1: cheeseburger is that like like a cowboy pizza? Is that
Speaker 1: what we were talking about? What's a cowboy pizza? Like
Speaker 1: a pizza with ground beef on it? And this is
Speaker 1: a yeah, and but also bacon. It also had bacon. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: sounds like it should be Midwestern. Yeah, I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure it has its origins, but we digress. Tell us
Speaker 1: about Austin. We're just saying we're not above trash pizza,
Speaker 1: Little Caesar's, any trash pizza that wants to sponsor Night Call.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna draw the line at Dominoes because I love
Speaker 1: domino Oh my god, no, I will. Actually they've remade it,
Speaker 1: like I guess they like changed their recipes last time
Speaker 1: I had a Dominoes, So maybe I would love your
Speaker 1: cheap what's your cheap slice of choice? My cheap slice
Speaker 1: of joy? I guess you live in New York citech.
Speaker 1: I live in New York City. Also, I don't eat
Speaker 1: pizza anymore because you're lactose intolerant. Yeah. But but but
Speaker 1: now I've realized that I can order two boots like
Speaker 1: an entire pizza, Like they actually delivered in my apartment.
Speaker 1: So I will occasionally get like their vegan pizza delivered,
Speaker 1: which is it feels like a real treat. Feels super
Speaker 1: super debauchrous to have a pizza like every time it comes.
Speaker 1: I'm like, look, it's a pizza to your house and
Speaker 1: it's here. Now he's the most exciting thing about being
Speaker 1: an adult. He's ordering pizza, yeah, being like I want
Speaker 1: a pizza. I can just order one now home alone.
Speaker 1: But you can order anything now. Yeah, it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be pizza. We'll see I order everything, Like under
Speaker 1: the Sun. I just never get a pizza because I
Speaker 1: don't eat cheese. But then when I get a pizza,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm a real American now. As nerd girls,
Speaker 1: if I had told you you could like earn something
Speaker 1: by reading books would have been a good speaking of
Speaker 1: being a totally like overachieving. Uh the middle slash slash
Speaker 1: no no, but well this this ties into theirs, of course.
Speaker 1: But I just want to like quickly shout out Book Smart,
Speaker 1: which I saw last night. I thought we were going
Speaker 1: straight to the well they're like, I mean like, if
Speaker 1: these characters in this movie took like a bad turn,
Speaker 1: then they could easily become little Elizabeth Holmes. But it
Speaker 1: is so good. It's it's Olivia Wilde's uh directorial debut
Speaker 1: as a feature filmmaker, And so I feel like you
Speaker 1: always kind of approached these sorts of things like okay,
Speaker 1: we'll see how good this is. But she's been doing
Speaker 1: like music videos and stuff like that for seconds. I've
Speaker 1: always been rooting for her. She directed a Red Hot
Speaker 1: Chili Peppers video, yeah we're referring to, but it was
Speaker 1: all girls skating. It's a great video. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: she's like genuinely, she has a lot of vision. She
Speaker 1: knows what she's doing and like everybody already loves her
Speaker 1: from when she played Alex on The O of course, yes,
Speaker 1: but she's like a real deal director, and like the
Speaker 1: script is so funny. Apparently it's been it was like
Speaker 1: a blacklist script like like ten years ago or something
Speaker 1: like that, so it's really been around for a second,
Speaker 1: but then it finally got made after you know, development
Speaker 1: hell or whatever, and it's like it's I mean, I
Speaker 1: wish it would have would not have gone had to
Speaker 1: go through all of that to like, was that your
Speaker 1: favorite South? Well, that was the thing last night where
Speaker 1: I was, like I was at the premiere for it.
Speaker 1: Most of the stuff I've been seen has been premiers
Speaker 1: in the Paramount Theater with like all the cast and
Speaker 1: crew there, and that's like a very buzzy sort of
Speaker 1: um you can't hear your own thoughts, type of environment
Speaker 1: to be in, and ye you were staying with us.
Speaker 1: With us, it was like, yeah, I just I want
Speaker 1: to see it again because I feel like it was
Speaker 1: so um, it was so hype in there. I just
Speaker 1: cannot hear my own thoughts. But but with book Smart,
Speaker 1: and I was super tired when I went into Book Smart.
Speaker 1: But and I was sitting right next. I was there
Speaker 1: with Jada Yuan Um, my colleague Slash fifty two Places
Speaker 1: World Traveler Um, and we were both like zonked out
Speaker 1: when we sat down. And then like as soon as
Speaker 1: the credits started, ruling were like, did we just watch
Speaker 1: like the next classic Allah Clueless or Mean Girls or
Speaker 1: something like that. Like it felt it felt like a
Speaker 1: really big deal movie to see there. It's really really funny. Um,
Speaker 1: it's like Beanie Seagull and Caitlin Dever or like these
Speaker 1: two overachieving girls who realized like they didn't need to
Speaker 1: overachieve so much because all the like party and kids
Speaker 1: and sexually active kids in their high school all got
Speaker 1: into IVY leagues too. So um, they have like one
Speaker 1: last night to just so that they can say they
Speaker 1: had fun and high school. So they like try to
Speaker 1: go to all these different parties. It's very kind of
Speaker 1: super bad, like um, one crazy night type thing, but
Speaker 1: it's just so charming and the two leads are so amazing,
Speaker 1: so like I would definitely I'm giving it the Nightcall
Speaker 1: Seal of Approval UM in a dance. Yeah, yes, all right,
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Speaker 1: else that got the night call steal of approval in
Speaker 1: advance was the inventor for blood and Silicon Valley. I
Speaker 1: think we are just generally interested in sociopaths, especially like
Speaker 1: business sociopaths. Yes, I mean she so, Elizabeth Holmes was
Speaker 1: a very very very private person and for some reason
Speaker 1: you can tell that just by looking at her. She
Speaker 1: doesn't blink very much. And then we start trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what's so off about her. And first of all,
Speaker 1: so that she does a fake voice, which is by
Speaker 1: the way, but it goes there's some mention it that
Speaker 1: she does it when she's like playing herself for an
Speaker 1: interview or something, but like person to person, it was
Speaker 1: it would kind of lesson. I mean, I think she
Speaker 1: has a naturally kind of lower voice, but she really
Speaker 1: plays it up and I don't know or truthers out there.
Speaker 1: There was a segment from a podcast that you can
Speaker 1: find on YouTube where she slips and her voice is
Speaker 1: much higher. Yeah. Really, And there's a podcast about it
Speaker 1: that I think people were saying. Also they found like
Speaker 1: people who knew her before and like that's that's new. Um.
Speaker 1: But she also wears the Steve Jobs turtlenecks all the time.
Speaker 1: She doesn't blink. I have a pet theory that she's
Speaker 1: maybe wearing color contacts. They're very intense and when they
Speaker 1: show the older pictures of her look like she had
Speaker 1: brown eyes and I was like, wouldn't be wouldn't put
Speaker 1: it past her? Well, the thing that's so jarring in
Speaker 1: it is I mean it kind of skipping forward. First
Speaker 1: of all, this is a documentary by Alex Gibney, who's
Speaker 1: done all of the big HBr documentaries recently. He did
Speaker 1: Go Clear Yeah, and and Ron Yeah, the one which interestingly,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth holmes Is father went did that explains it all um?
Speaker 1: And they don't maybe bring that up in the documentary.
Speaker 1: I think they've they maybe briefly mention it, but you
Speaker 1: have to, you know, right, But you're like, no, wonder
Speaker 1: she's a scammer. She like her dad was a scammer
Speaker 1: and they lost a lot of money apparently, yes, and
Speaker 1: they ran. I mean all of their friends were like
Speaker 1: these kind of luminaries. And I guess that her like
Speaker 1: great great grandfather has like a hospital named after she used.
Speaker 1: She like used just rich white privilege to scam her
Speaker 1: way to the top of Silicon Valley. But again, it's
Speaker 1: like the people on the she put on the board,
Speaker 1: none of them were scientists. They were all people kiss
Speaker 1: which is your first that's something maybe a miss. He's
Speaker 1: also on the International Olympic Committee. He gets paid to
Speaker 1: go to the Olympics. Um. Yeah, just like a bunch
Speaker 1: of really bad people from politics that were connected to
Speaker 1: her family because she had like DC connections, and then
Speaker 1: she got a bunch of seed money. It was like
Speaker 1: she made the company exist based on this idea that
Speaker 1: she could create a blood test from a pin prick
Speaker 1: sample of blood. Well, for anyone who's not familiar with
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes, her company saranos Um is basically the origin
Speaker 1: story is that she was terribly afraid of needles, and
Speaker 1: her mother and aunt or like another family member were
Speaker 1: so afraid of needles that they would faint. So her
Speaker 1: idea is that instead of drawing from the vein, you
Speaker 1: do a pin prick. You get a tiny, tiny sample
Speaker 1: of blood, and then you feed it into this machine
Speaker 1: called the Edison, which later I think she tried to
Speaker 1: rebrand as Mini Lab, which looks like a small, you know,
Speaker 1: printer basically, and that that would be able to run
Speaker 1: on a battery of tests, like two fifty different blood tests.
Speaker 1: But in actuality, uh, when this was rolled out, the
Speaker 1: pin prick wasn't enough blood. You actually had to do
Speaker 1: the regular draw, And she was lying when she said
Speaker 1: that the tests were being performed by the Edison, because
Speaker 1: they actually were being performed by the more traditional um
Speaker 1: blood testing machines that are big and bought from third partners.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's a lot of stuff that the documentary
Speaker 1: goes into, like you know, drawing on the irony of
Speaker 1: calling the box the Edison, because so many of like
Speaker 1: Thomas Edison's patents were things that he also did not
Speaker 1: really know how to do, but would say he did
Speaker 1: them and find some way to like, you know, do
Speaker 1: a demo at a World's fair or whatever and make
Speaker 1: people bleed. He's done it. And then and then in
Speaker 1: the background, you know, right, he actually gets there. There's
Speaker 1: a thing I couldn't believe they didn't use in the
Speaker 1: documentary because it's such because they were using other stock
Speaker 1: footagey things where I was like waiting for, like here's
Speaker 1: the stock footage about the mechanical Turk, which is like
Speaker 1: this famous uh fake automaton. It was like, uh, like
Speaker 1: was supposedly a chess playing robot, I think, and then
Speaker 1: it turned out to be just a guy. Oh, but
Speaker 1: they brought it places and presented it. It's like it's
Speaker 1: a robot that plays chess and like you know, just
Speaker 1: see your moves and like play against you. But it
Speaker 1: was really a guy in a box inside of it,
Speaker 1: like manipulating it. And so anything there's something like that,
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, yeah, you can like maybe trick
Speaker 1: people into thinking it works in like your lab environment.
Speaker 1: But that was like there are so many things about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is all the science version of the stuff we
Speaker 1: were talking about last week with the psychics and spirituality.
Speaker 1: It's like, take advantage of the stuff that people want
Speaker 1: to believe in, and you make it just credible enough
Speaker 1: that they'll look over any of the like cracks or
Speaker 1: inconsistencies or something, because people really wanted this, like it
Speaker 1: would have been like a real disruptor of the entire
Speaker 1: diagnostics into but they show like there's a professor immediately
Speaker 1: who's like, you can't do that, it won't work, you know,
Speaker 1: And she had declined to kind of work with Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Holmes on the project and passed her on to someone else,
Speaker 1: and then that person got taken in by the crazy eyes.
Speaker 1: A lot of people got a lot of old white
Speaker 1: men especially taken in. And the professor is amazing though,
Speaker 1: because she's so like I like, she does not give anywhere.
Speaker 1: He's a good character of the documentary. Yeah, she's the one.
Speaker 1: She's one of the good people. Um, everybody else gassed
Speaker 1: up Elizabeth Holmes because she was like the perfect embodiment
Speaker 1: of what Silicon Valley wants to believe about itself. And well,
Speaker 1: she was one of the only female like CEOs in
Speaker 1: one of these disruptive sector like sector disrupting industries, and
Speaker 1: so there was a lot of incentive to play that
Speaker 1: up for you know, she can hear she bought her
Speaker 1: way in, but like so did the rest of them,
Speaker 1: and like, uh, that was the thing too, is when
Speaker 1: they were like, well everybody liked all the move fast
Speaker 1: and break things, but like you can't do that in medicine,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you shouldn't do that in other things either.
Speaker 1: Like it's always just like breaking labor laws, you know,
Speaker 1: is what it always it's, well, that's what the break
Speaker 1: things like with. Yeah, like Uber is also like a
Speaker 1: big fucked up company that like just keep secrets about itself.
Speaker 1: All these companies are just like, well, we can't tell you.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting about the threat posed by Sarainos was
Speaker 1: eventually um. Towards the end of the documentary, they talked
Speaker 1: about how people were coming in to be tested for
Speaker 1: syphilis and nobody was really trained there. That was the
Speaker 1: only test they could get the machine to do was
Speaker 1: to But it's also like the separation of the carpet world,
Speaker 1: which was like the you know, kind of slick Silicon valley,
Speaker 1: like Elizabeth Holmes was like wandering the halls and this
Speaker 1: glossy building and then the tile floors where the lab
Speaker 1: technicians were working. And I think it was you know,
Speaker 1: they're like in the science realm that people finally came
Speaker 1: forward and we're like, hey, the science is bullshit, Like
Speaker 1: I would not trust these test results. No one should
Speaker 1: trust these test results. It was you know, yeah, it
Speaker 1: wasn't in the documentary, but um, I think it wasn't
Speaker 1: a vanity fair article about her. Maybe there have been
Speaker 1: a bunch of articles obviously over the past year or so,
Speaker 1: of which we read, all of which we read last night.
Speaker 1: But about her dog. She has a psychic Yeah, Balto
Speaker 1: the Siberian husky, who she told everyone was a wolf.
Speaker 1: But he would bring him to work and he would
Speaker 1: contaminate samples with by like shedding, and he wasn't house broken,
Speaker 1: and I was just like peeing everywhere all over the place.
Speaker 1: She would just pretend it wasn't happening. And I think
Speaker 1: that's just her general attitude to life. And it takes
Speaker 1: you so far. Um, that's the whole thing is. It's
Speaker 1: just like people would come to her and be like,
Speaker 1: it's not working, it's never going to work, and she
Speaker 1: was just like, you're not trying. She was impenetrable, and
Speaker 1: she wouldn't she wouldn't disclose any of the mechanics of
Speaker 1: the machines that she had designed or you know, had
Speaker 1: kind of used other people's ingenuity to help design. I
Speaker 1: think that was one of the people who she worked with,
Speaker 1: Ian Gibbons, who was one of the scientists that you know,
Speaker 1: she kind of took some of his work and brought
Speaker 1: him on the board, and he eventually committed suicide. Um,
Speaker 1: which that was real sad. It was super sad. And
Speaker 1: his widow you know, talked about how Elizabeth Holmes had
Speaker 1: called up after he died and instead of offering her condolences,
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, I'm gonna need everything all of his
Speaker 1: paperwork that related to Saranos because I don't wanted to
Speaker 1: get out. Yeah, this was really like late in the
Speaker 1: like I think that the kind of noose was tightening
Speaker 1: around them. So she was getting like super paranoid about everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she never breaks in the documentary because they don't get
Speaker 1: any like new footage with her. A lot of it
Speaker 1: comes from the stuff that Errol Morris And that's the
Speaker 1: funny subtext of the documentary is the documentary and feuding
Speaker 1: with Errol's total shade on Errol Moore, so sad to
Speaker 1: Errol Morris's are you sitting there like totally credible, like
Speaker 1: you know, cross arms in this director's chair, like you know,
Speaker 1: asking her to tell everybody why she's a genius. And
Speaker 1: it's like, but that footage is incredible because that's the
Speaker 1: stuff where you're like, you feel like you're looking at
Speaker 1: this mask of a human because you know, the Natron
Speaker 1: is the thing that he invented. Where it's like, so
Speaker 1: the interviewer, the way that the camera set up, it's
Speaker 1: it's set up so that the person is having an
Speaker 1: eye to eye conversation with the interviewer, but they're also
Speaker 1: looking right into the camera. Um, so you get this,
Speaker 1: like you get the unblinking stair like in all its
Speaker 1: glory with like ring light three sixty lighting around it
Speaker 1: and you can just see like she says something at
Speaker 1: some point and that's an alien. Yeah, but she also
Speaker 1: says like, oh yeah, I only sleep like four hours
Speaker 1: a night, and it's like, maybe you should sleep more,
Speaker 1: like you have hired. And I also feel like there's
Speaker 1: such a thing as like sleep psychosis. You can make
Speaker 1: bad decisions, you know, is if anything she says it's true, Well,
Speaker 1: because it's all very buzzy. I mean, she's vegan and
Speaker 1: these are her smoothies and she only the one outfit
Speaker 1: because she doesn't want to think about her look, and
Speaker 1: it's like I was thinking about because I was like
Speaker 1: not to keep for her at all because she is
Speaker 1: a psycho. But it is that thing where you're like, well,
Speaker 1: why is she the only one who gets punished like
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg broke democracy? I think, I mean, but she
Speaker 1: didn't even give anyone syphilis yet. But this is not
Speaker 1: this is not what she knows. I mean, Mark Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: definitely kind of like talked his way to a certain position,
Speaker 1: but at a certain point it became something that he
Speaker 1: was well versed in. Whether he made good decisions. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you could argue that. I definitely wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that he had a good grasp on the social
Speaker 1: and moral implications of what he built. But I think
Speaker 1: that he knew how to build a website, whereas Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Holmes like, he doesn't know how to analyze blood, and
Speaker 1: that's like a pretty significant does how to sell that
Speaker 1: blood pill she got? Show that pill the Okay? So
Speaker 1: like I still feel like the worst horror scene that
Speaker 1: I'm going to see in any movie this year is
Speaker 1: the computer generated re enactment of what happens inside of
Speaker 1: the ED. They show the blood around the blood is
Speaker 1: splashing around, like the little glass vials are getting cracked,
Speaker 1: and there's just like blood splatters all over and then
Speaker 1: waging around. It's the best you made me think about
Speaker 1: Velvet Bus saw too, because it's like a black box.
Speaker 1: It's like a metaphor for the company. It's like you
Speaker 1: can't see what happens inside, and then like if you
Speaker 1: try to go inside an my blood dad with a
Speaker 1: blood needle and see all the like encrusted blood all
Speaker 1: over everything. Yeah, it's it was. I mean that stuff
Speaker 1: was pretty incredible, very unforgettable imagery. If I had a criticism, though,
Speaker 1: I feel like it didn't go deep enough into the
Speaker 1: psychological study of Elizabeth Homes. I could have watched five more.
Speaker 1: I couldn't. Yeah, and I would have wanted to know,
Speaker 1: like I really would have to have had more insight
Speaker 1: into like her upbringing and you know how she kind
Speaker 1: of like her parents kind of according to one interview
Speaker 1: I read um with this guy who worked with his
Speaker 1: parents with her parents that her parents kind of tried
Speaker 1: to like get her into Stanford by sending her to
Speaker 1: this Mandarin program because they heard that that was like
Speaker 1: a good leg up, even though she really didn't have
Speaker 1: the grades, so it was kind of like she was
Speaker 1: like grifting from the beginning. It was just grifting in
Speaker 1: the way that like all rich people are grifting their
Speaker 1: way and opportunities that they don't earn. It was like,
Speaker 1: and she used it to her advantage the way that
Speaker 1: other people do. She just picked a really bad thing
Speaker 1: to do with it. But it was so weirdly specific
Speaker 1: that you could sort of understand why people got caught
Speaker 1: up in like the fervor of it, because it's like, well,
Speaker 1: why else would she choose this thing. Why wouldn't she
Speaker 1: at some point be like this isn't working, I'm going
Speaker 1: to try another start up, but she was so like
Speaker 1: it must succeed. I do think like the movie feels
Speaker 1: like just an ad for the Bad Blood book, the
Speaker 1: John Carry You book about her that came out a
Speaker 1: few months ago, because it does like everything feels like
Speaker 1: you could go so much deeper. And I'm sure that
Speaker 1: the book, I mean, it's also like maybe it's comforting
Speaker 1: to us because it's like a story about the power
Speaker 1: of journalism, right, I mean that is the like emotional
Speaker 1: core doc is the same in the same thing. It's
Speaker 1: like they think you're stupid, so they say things in
Speaker 1: front of you that I shouldn't say. But there's also
Speaker 1: the guy from Forbes who put her on the cover
Speaker 1: of Forbes and then later hows this reckoning he was,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was upset and that was great to begin,
Speaker 1: Like what if they did that to like Airbnb and stuff,
Speaker 1: like other companies that are like grifters that have drifted
Speaker 1: their way into a position. But like it's all a
Speaker 1: Ponzi scheme. All the startups are Ponzi schemes. But I
Speaker 1: think what's what's different about this is that you would,
Speaker 1: at least I would think that in medicine, you know,
Speaker 1: in that kind of like disrupt or culture or whatever,
Speaker 1: there's really it should be that if you want to
Speaker 1: get a blood test, you have options other than questions,
Speaker 1: and you can do it yourself and saper like if
Speaker 1: you can't feel a way to do it, I feel
Speaker 1: like a nurse should do it. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I use the heal app again, not an app,
Speaker 1: but and I really love the Heal app and I'm
Speaker 1: interested because I'm like, okay that that solved a medical problem.
Speaker 1: And medicine, it seems you would think would be a
Speaker 1: very high priority to improve how we have, you know,
Speaker 1: access to medicine beyond just healthcare. I don't trust companies.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously pharmaceutical companies are doing the same thing
Speaker 1: a company, but it's like one is a different, differently
Speaker 1: principled one than the other. Like yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: I was surprised when people started doing twenty three and
Speaker 1: me because I was like, you could turn this into eugenics,
Speaker 1: and then they did. But it's like people are sort
Speaker 1: of less scared to like send their blood away in
Speaker 1: an envelope than maybe I would be. I would not
Speaker 1: give anyone my blood. There's the question though, if you
Speaker 1: needed a boo tests, for instance, and you didn't have
Speaker 1: insurance or your insurance, well, I'm saying the idea that
Speaker 1: they were selling of like it'll be in Walgreens was
Speaker 1: like not a terrible idea, that's like a licensed practitioner,
Speaker 1: but that isn't That's why it's so disappointing though, I think,
Speaker 1: and why it's different than some of the other companies
Speaker 1: is because when you consider Airbnb, I mean, that's like
Speaker 1: a convenience and it's not a good company, but it
Speaker 1: also isn't like all of the stakes are much lower.
Speaker 1: Like you could stay at a hotel, but someone who's
Speaker 1: having trouble getting access to a doctor for a blood test,
Speaker 1: but all of a sudden, like that's that's a high priority. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a much more like you must get this
Speaker 1: and like test. It's probably different for you because you
Speaker 1: have kids, but like I feel like I'm still not
Speaker 1: at the age yet where like medical stuff is on
Speaker 1: my mind on like a month to month basis, and
Speaker 1: like the idea of like getting diagnostics run and stuff
Speaker 1: like aside from like when you cut a corner, there's
Speaker 1: a reason, but it's not necessarily cutting a corner. I
Speaker 1: mean for like, I mean if it works, then I
Speaker 1: think we'd feel differently about it. That's the main thing.
Speaker 1: Like the whole thing is just the illusion around it.
Speaker 1: If this was a woman who really knew what she
Speaker 1: was doing and the edison worked and the blood sample
Speaker 1: and worked, then we this would be a completely different story.
Speaker 1: Like even if it even if it did disrupt the
Speaker 1: existing diagnostic industry, it would be a conversation, not unlike
Speaker 1: these other industries that have been disrupted, And I'd be
Speaker 1: and there'd be like plenty of casualties within that, But
Speaker 1: I think it would be a different discussion than this,
Speaker 1: where it's just like, this is about a cult of
Speaker 1: personality that made us believe in something. I think it's
Speaker 1: also a core bad idea, That's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: think I would not give my blood to a private
Speaker 1: company selling me this because it should be publicly invested.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't have to go to fucking tech startups to
Speaker 1: get I agree, but healthcare we should have. We should
Speaker 1: invest into come here in public this year, which is
Speaker 1: going to be very interesting, I think, uh and also
Speaker 1: probably ruined San Francisco. But again, I feel like there
Speaker 1: could be a pushback when people are like, no, we
Speaker 1: don't want this, we want infrastructure that means we don't
Speaker 1: need the blood machines. No. I totally agree. But I
Speaker 1: also think that when you see the crazy investments that
Speaker 1: people in Silicon Valley get for their terrible ideas, you're like,
Speaker 1: what if we invested this money in the medical infrastructure?
Speaker 1: I agree. I think what my point was is that
Speaker 1: people were very eager to invest in this because the
Speaker 1: idea of making you know, certain medical diagnostics available to
Speaker 1: people who can't afford them, who put it off and
Speaker 1: end up dying or whatever. It was exciting even though
Speaker 1: it was I think it was just yes, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think that. I don't think Henry Kissinger was like
Speaker 1: I can't wait to help anyone. He that's like, that's
Speaker 1: not his thing. People just wanted to make money. They
Speaker 1: thought it was a way to make money by exploiting
Speaker 1: people who can't afford healthcare into having to like get
Speaker 1: the blood pills. But some of the some of the
Speaker 1: scientists who got on board early, and like the phlebotomous trainers,
Speaker 1: scientists wanted to like, this is great, right, but they
Speaker 1: also knew it wasn't gonna work. I mean there was
Speaker 1: probably a tie. Like before there were blood pressure machines
Speaker 1: in Walgreens, like and you had to go to a
Speaker 1: doctor to do that. Now we think of that as
Speaker 1: much a much more casual thing to get done, Like
Speaker 1: it's not a big deal that you have to make
Speaker 1: a doctor's appointment to go get your blood pressure taken,
Speaker 1: Like you can just do that at Walgreens or whatever.
Speaker 1: Trial She Kills is a Shutter original podcast by and
Speaker 1: about women in horror, hosted by Adrian Barbo from The
Speaker 1: Fog and creep show yests include beloved stars like Barbara Crampton,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Tilly and d Wallace, genre innovators like Annabelle alex
Speaker 1: Eso and Pollyanna Mackintosh, and writers, critics and horror experts
Speaker 1: like Blair Bercy, Gray Drake and Danis Schwartz. She Kills
Speaker 1: explores the beginning of horror where women will kill fodder,
Speaker 1: to the standalone modern women of horror who broke the mold,
Speaker 1: featuring the dynamic actresses from those films. We're going from
Speaker 1: Babe in the woods to badass with a shotgun and
Speaker 1: everything in between, with the unique and richly interesting conversations
Speaker 1: that only women in horror who love horror and who
Speaker 1: examine horror can provide. She Kills debuts on March one.
Speaker 1: All ten episodes will be available on Shutter. March first.
Speaker 1: Episode one will come out on Apple, Spotify and everywhere else.
Speaker 1: You catch your podcast on March one, with episodes being
Speaker 1: released twice weekly on Mondays and Fridays. True nine twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen. I'm gonna go with bring Back in how Stock. Well,
Speaker 1: That's that's why I mentioned hell Is because, like my so,
Speaker 1: my daughter had to go to the doctor today and
Speaker 1: it's across town. You often have to wait for an appointment,
Speaker 1: even if it's a not well visit for a little kid,
Speaker 1: and it's just to check their ears, check their nose,
Speaker 1: check their throat. It's like a three hour thing. It's
Speaker 1: expensive even when with insurance. Then I thought, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that Hell is like a brilliant app and
Speaker 1: there are others like it, Like I think doctor on demand,
Speaker 1: but the idea that you have doctors who come to
Speaker 1: your house for things that are not life threatening thing
Speaker 1: of doctor, like you know, it's a real doctor. These
Speaker 1: are U c l A doctors and so you can
Speaker 1: look at their you know, you can you can view
Speaker 1: who the doctor is and where they went to school
Speaker 1: and everything. I've used it a bunch, and like, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I would want to use that in
Speaker 1: a life threatening emergency. And in fact, when I tried,
Speaker 1: they were like, go to the doctor. But I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's not necessary really, Like a lot of people are,
Speaker 1: you know, saying like I have the time, I have
Speaker 1: the money to just go to the doctor when I'm
Speaker 1: feel sick. So there have to be alternatives until we
Speaker 1: get the infrastructure going like I've gotten sick so many
Speaker 1: times since I've lived in New York, Like I used
Speaker 1: to never get sick at all, and now it's like constantly,
Speaker 1: Like I do the I do like urgent care, which
Speaker 1: is like like the middle point between those two things, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's a it's a totally it's broken. We all
Speaker 1: agree it's broken. I just don't think startups are gonna
Speaker 1: fix anything for anybody. Ever. Well, it's my hard take
Speaker 1: on Like I'm excited for our listeners to see the doc.
Speaker 1: I reviewed it um at Sundance where it premiered in January,
Speaker 1: so you can link to that somewhere. I think that
Speaker 1: it probably like wisely doesn't get too much into this
Speaker 1: stuff because this, like as you could, like as we
Speaker 1: can see, this is like such a bigger problem that
Speaker 1: like they're yeah, I sort of wanted it to get
Speaker 1: into that, but it also doesn't really get that much
Speaker 1: into like Silicon Valley just sort of being a big drift.
Speaker 1: And like I think, I think to the extent that
Speaker 1: like it can and it's in the time that it
Speaker 1: has as much as we're like obsessed over her persona
Speaker 1: and the weirdness and like her voice and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: I do think my one thing with the film is
Speaker 1: that like it really fixated on that surface. And maybe
Speaker 1: it's because they couldn't get so much into her, like
Speaker 1: you know, more detailed stuff about her past or anything
Speaker 1: like that, or what was actually up with her. So
Speaker 1: just like there's so much staring into her eyes in
Speaker 1: this group, right, and you're looking for something, and they
Speaker 1: focused only a lot of time on her aesthetic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think she's a very striking looking person and
Speaker 1: so you do get this like sense of who she
Speaker 1: is by just looking at her. But it is interesting
Speaker 1: that they didn't like crack that too much in the documentary.
Speaker 1: I would have loved if they had gone deeper into that,
Speaker 1: and I'm assuming that there's an interesting reason why they didn't.
Speaker 1: It felt very like male gazy and a that like
Speaker 1: not the way we usually think of that being used.
Speaker 1: But I feel like an older man being like, what
Speaker 1: the fund is this creature? It was a little bit
Speaker 1: basic instinct. Yes, to be honest, you know where you're like,
Speaker 1: this woman is like using like the fact that everyone
Speaker 1: will look at her because she's like a white blonde
Speaker 1: woman like against people to her benefit. She couldn't use
Speaker 1: some better sweaters. Honestly, see, job thing was just so stupid,
Speaker 1: it worked so well on people. And like she has
Speaker 1: a thing apparently where she would make them keep the
Speaker 1: office temperature at sixty degrees so she could wear which
Speaker 1: is also a thing Nixon did. Nixon made them keep
Speaker 1: it really cold in the White House so he could
Speaker 1: have a fire in the fireplaces all the time. You
Speaker 1: know that fires are really inefficient heating. The suck the
Speaker 1: air right up there. He was just having a little
Speaker 1: fireside chat with Checkers. Um. She now lives in San
Speaker 1: Francisco and dates some other guy, goes to burning a
Speaker 1: younger man, and blames everyone for her downfallen, not herself,
Speaker 1: and thinks she's going to have a comeback and definitely
Speaker 1: doesn't think she's going to jail. Um, so that's also
Speaker 1: we stand uh an entrepreneurial legend. Yeah again, I'm like,
Speaker 1: she should go to jail. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: even know if I care she goes to jail. I
Speaker 1: mean nothing, I think she has to be I mean,
Speaker 1: she has been barred from working in a lab, which
Speaker 1: is good. She shouldn't she should be bounced out. But
Speaker 1: like it's funny how she's just doubling down. I'm like, wow, like,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of her secret sauce is that she
Speaker 1: just will not admit culpability. You have to do to
Speaker 1: be a CEO. Maybe believe your own bullshit. Hey guys,
Speaker 1: do you feel like taking a night call? Yes? Sure, Okay,
Speaker 1: high night call. At a Sunday family lunch, I was
Speaker 1: talking with one of my favorite humans, Chris, my sister
Speaker 1: in law, who happens to be a middle school science teacher.
Speaker 1: She often has interesting science anecdotes that we collectively geek
Speaker 1: out over. The latest was no exception. Zombie crickets from
Speaker 1: nat Geo horsehair worm paregordious various house cricket a cheetah domesticus.
Speaker 1: The house cricket loses its will and its life to
Speaker 1: the horse hair worm. Larvae of the parasite infiltrate the
Speaker 1: cricket when it scavenges dead insects then grow inside it.
Speaker 1: The cricket is terrestrial, but the adult stage of the
Speaker 1: worms life cycle is aquatic, so when the mature worm
Speaker 1: is ready to emerge, it alters the brain of its host,
Speaker 1: driving the cricket to abandon the safety of land and
Speaker 1: take a suicidal leap into the nearest body of water.
Speaker 1: As the cricket drowns, an adult worm emerges, sometimes a
Speaker 1: foot in lane. Why is the word so? I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you have a subscription to National Geographic, there's a
Speaker 1: brilliant long read entitled mind Suckers from the November edition
Speaker 1: we will link to that night Calls always seemed like
Speaker 1: a safe place for all things insects. Thought y'all might
Speaker 1: appreciate the insanity of the natural order. Take care on
Speaker 1: a guys, discuss this is insane. I've never heard of
Speaker 1: this before. UM, I ever related. Okay, so, by the way,
Speaker 1: we got this. UM a little while ago. Last night,
Speaker 1: there was a cricket in my bathtub. This happens a
Speaker 1: lot where crickets end up in my bathtub. I don't
Speaker 1: know why that is. I don't know. But then I
Speaker 1: was like, is it trying to It was an empty bathtub,
Speaker 1: but I was like, is it just waiting for me
Speaker 1: to fill this so it can die in? A giant
Speaker 1: worm can come out? No, thank you? Do they get that?
Speaker 1: Ants do? Like? Like ants will always seek out, like
Speaker 1: they'll hang around your drain and stuff. Just get that water.
Speaker 1: It's weird. I mean crickets. The crickets have been out
Speaker 1: in full force recently, um the past couple of nights
Speaker 1: in l A, making a big cricket racket. But I
Speaker 1: did not hear them when it was raining, so I
Speaker 1: assume they go away when it rains. It is based
Speaker 1: on no science at all, just me sitting outside. I
Speaker 1: just think it's really interesting that they get driven like
Speaker 1: insane by these brains sides, like, could a cricket be
Speaker 1: driven insane? Is it sane to begin with? It's a cricket.
Speaker 1: I think it's creepy, Like there are parasites I guess
Speaker 1: that can alter the brain in different animals, like I
Speaker 1: don't know, like lime disease or like ticks and stuff
Speaker 1: like that are probably like an example, although it's lime
Speaker 1: disease even real, I feel like I feel like it's real,
Speaker 1: But lime disease is real. There are other there are
Speaker 1: things that are not lime disease people say are like,
Speaker 1: say lime disease. We're all talking specifically about Yolan Beverly Hill.
Speaker 1: I think no, I think what happened with her, This
Speaker 1: is my theory about her, is all of her ship
Speaker 1: was related to having like leaky brusting plants, I think,
Speaker 1: and then she got them removed. Finally. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: she didn't maybe also have lime just talked about that,
Speaker 1: Yeah I remember, But yeah, she got her breast and
Speaker 1: plants removed, and I think she's maybe like been better.
Speaker 1: I think maybe that was part of what was going on.
Speaker 1: I felt really sad for her, because there's nothing real
Speaker 1: or false when you're that obsessed. No, I mean that
Speaker 1: was that was like a large bontree or movement. It
Speaker 1: was inside that show of her and like her giant
Speaker 1: fridge that's only vegetables and like a giant bowl of lemons.
Speaker 1: Aspirational yet, but yeah, I think the creepy thing about
Speaker 1: this is that it's like one. It's one on one
Speaker 1: as opposed to like, I don't know, having like a
Speaker 1: bunch of like small parasites that like like how much
Speaker 1: I'm going to go with any parasite is a scary parasite. Well,
Speaker 1: but that takes out it's like a body snatcher, but
Speaker 1: with cricket, oh my god, and the illustration like c
Speaker 1: g I recreates there. Yeah, there's a lot of body snatchers.
Speaker 1: We should do more if you're good parasites though, you
Speaker 1: know my mom. I remember being really little and my
Speaker 1: mom was like, you know those like tiny microscopic organisms
Speaker 1: that walk on your eyelashes and eyebrows. And I was
Speaker 1: like no, and she was like, they look like little donkeys.
Speaker 1: And so the other night I was telling my kids
Speaker 1: about it and I showed them a picture. I don't
Speaker 1: remember what these yeah, and they were just like, get
Speaker 1: them off. They gotta they gotta stay because they probably
Speaker 1: I think you've told you this before because I remember
Speaker 1: the tiny little donkeys. That was a nice way to
Speaker 1: think about parasites. Some parasites are helpful. What if we're
Speaker 1: just parasites are parasite organism? We are totally killing the organism.
Speaker 1: We're part of the voluntary extinction project. Um, this is
Speaker 1: a really great uh night email. I'm glad that Anna
Speaker 1: brought this to our attention. Yeah, crickets are lucky, I think. Also, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to kill them. Yeah, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this in the podcast because there was one time when
Speaker 1: I had one in the bathtub and I tried to
Speaker 1: save it and accidentally chopped off its head. And that
Speaker 1: was like what do I do? Just like cursed? It's
Speaker 1: like breaking. Yeah, I love crack gets. I like to
Speaker 1: try to be nice to all the bugs. It is.
Speaker 1: It's coming to Mosquito is the deadliest animal. Which don't
Speaker 1: forget it's your duty to kill mosquitoes. I know, but
Speaker 1: even then it's like they're just you know, just looking
Speaker 1: for a bite. They no, Molly, no, um, you guys
Speaker 1: made me watch you just don't give me any This
Speaker 1: was all Emily's choice. We put out a call for
Speaker 1: erotic thrillers because this is our erotic this is our
Speaker 1: erotic Odyssey segment. So we went through. We got a
Speaker 1: bunch of really great suggestions, and we settled on Body
Speaker 1: of Evidence. Well, there's a lot of bodies to get through.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of body movies, Body Double, body Heat,
Speaker 1: Body of Evidence. And I had not seen Body of Evidence.
Speaker 1: I did not. I thought it was like a beloved classic. Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought you this was like a movie that had
Speaker 1: made an imprint on you. Not something curious about the
Speaker 1: Madonna and will In Dafoe movie, but like, well, fun
Speaker 1: thing about this movie. It takes place in Portland, Orchia
Speaker 1: for no reasons, the Portlandia of the nineties. It takes
Speaker 1: place in yuppy Portland's, which was amazing because I didn't
Speaker 1: even know that existed. Like the most heated debate over
Speaker 1: whether or not that what Madonna lives in in this
Speaker 1: movie was a house. It was a house. It was
Speaker 1: clearly a house. But my husband was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like Andrew at the end of You. But
Speaker 1: my husband was like, no, it's on a peninsula. It's
Speaker 1: too nice to be a house. But I was like,
Speaker 1: that is a luxury house, like your husband could work
Speaker 1: for You're right that I want to get into this
Speaker 1: that I know it's a house boat because in the
Speaker 1: iTunes summary for this movie, to a houseboat, the lean
Speaker 1: price of it says sex bomb. Rebecca Carlson, played by Madonna,
Speaker 1: parades around naked in front of the open windows of
Speaker 1: her house boat at all goes, even while the lobsterman
Speaker 1: catch crabs. That was not a scene in the movie.
Speaker 1: In the movie, not in the movie, but apparently it's
Speaker 1: in the trailer. In the trailer that were like, there's
Speaker 1: a part in the trailer where she walks naked back
Speaker 1: into her house boat, but it's not in the movie.
Speaker 1: Is this pre post body double? Because that's another like
Speaker 1: female exhibitionist one UM the Dipoma movie. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's a lot, right. I think this made me feel
Speaker 1: like we should do Basic Instinct next because this one's
Speaker 1: basically off, but it's not because they were made at
Speaker 1: the same at the same time, shooting began only two weeks.
Speaker 1: Basically just the same movie, but bad. And the only
Speaker 1: reason it's bad is because Madonna is no. So many
Speaker 1: reasons why it's I was saying, it's like it's got
Speaker 1: all the erotic thriller repertory players, including Julianne Moore and Archer.
Speaker 1: Julianne Moore is also in Hand That Rocks the Cradle
Speaker 1: and Archer is also in Fatal Attraction. An Archer and
Speaker 1: Julianne Moore are in shortcuts together on one. We should
Speaker 1: try to do this as a UM six type journey
Speaker 1: because an archer is the connector between fatal and body
Speaker 1: of Evidence. So that means next time we have to
Speaker 1: do and Michael Douglas is in all of them except
Speaker 1: for this one, in which he's played if only he'd
Speaker 1: been in this one. I did not. I was not
Speaker 1: taken by Willem Dafoe's performance, and in fact I have
Speaker 1: to shout out how bad the score was by Graham
Speaker 1: Revel Ravel, who was so good. At one point, there's
Speaker 1: a sex scene that's set to what sounds like like
Speaker 1: Catholic and yet okay, you were there for that because
Speaker 1: it's softcore. It was horrible. It's early nineties softcore. I
Speaker 1: was like, this movie is terrible. If I had seen
Speaker 1: it at two am on Cinemax at like a friend's
Speaker 1: house at a sleepover, I would have thought about it
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. It's like very It's
Speaker 1: got that kind of like bizarre not at all real
Speaker 1: to life sex choreography that if you stept to see
Speaker 1: it as a kid, you're like, oh my god, is
Speaker 1: that Like it harkens to a time before porn was
Speaker 1: readily available, when like you get what you get and
Speaker 1: you don't get upset. Um. They didn't use body doubles
Speaker 1: in the movie, and the sex scenes were like semi improvised,
Speaker 1: apparently because Madonna just like did whatever she wanted um
Speaker 1: as she does, so she wasn't supposed to pour wax
Speaker 1: on him three times. The third time was the surprise
Speaker 1: surprised and he was with her masturbation also improvised. The
Speaker 1: third time was like on his dick, right, because it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be like shot of all of the
Speaker 1: wax drops where you see get like on his chest,
Speaker 1: and then the third one that he's just staring down
Speaker 1: at his caution, there's no cutaway, so I assumed she
Speaker 1: was dropping hot wax on his Well, it's very possible.
Speaker 1: I have to say that I thought I had solved
Speaker 1: the movie about sixty of the way through because there
Speaker 1: were like a lot of red herrings in this movie,
Speaker 1: and one of them was this scene out of nowhere
Speaker 1: where Willem Dafoe is like being offered a donut okay
Speaker 1: at work, and they're like this guy randomly is like
Speaker 1: eat the last donut, and then the camerasums in on
Speaker 1: this one donut and then it's like that's it, right.
Speaker 1: And then later Madonna's whole m o is that she
Speaker 1: praised on men with heart conditions and gets written into
Speaker 1: their will. And at one point they're kind of like
Speaker 1: being coy with each other and and Willem to foes like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: do you see anyone in this restaurant who's into like
Speaker 1: your kind of your thing, your brand of kin, And
Speaker 1: she was like yeah, but he doesn't know it yet,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, she has a heart condition,
Speaker 1: that's why you didn't eat the last doughnut. So she's
Speaker 1: gonna like try and kill Willem to phone how you
Speaker 1: motivated theut? And it was wrong. I thought, what's the
Speaker 1: deal with that doughnut? Yeah? I thought it was about
Speaker 1: the cocaine use. It was not a powdered donut. Was
Speaker 1: a powdered doughnut. And it reminded me of Basic in
Speaker 1: Staying when everyone's like casually making fun of Michael Douglas
Speaker 1: for shooting a Taurus right when he was cooked out
Speaker 1: of his brain. Yeah, they're like, ha ha, shooter, you
Speaker 1: want to diet code. Also so weird in this movie
Speaker 1: is how like everything hinges on nasal spray that has
Speaker 1: been contaminated with cocaine. Everything about it is weird, except again,
Speaker 1: I like if it was somebody other than Madonna, Like
Speaker 1: again like Fatal Attraction, You're like, it's not that he's
Speaker 1: unhappy with his wife. His wife is Julianne Moore and
Speaker 1: she's given him the business. It's like the most nothing character. Also,
Speaker 1: the basic just of this movie. It is basically just
Speaker 1: basic instinct. Uh, Madonna is a woman who has a boy,
Speaker 1: like a rich older boyfriend who has found dead watching
Speaker 1: one of their sex tapes and he's been like handcuffed
Speaker 1: to a bed. He was she was the murder weapon.
Speaker 1: She is the body of evidence, and then all you know,
Speaker 1: everybody thinks that she did it. But William Dafoe is
Speaker 1: a lawyer who decides to represent her for reasons Uh no,
Speaker 1: he just walks up to her at a funeral and says,
Speaker 1: you need representation while she's crying, and then they start
Speaker 1: working together again. I don't know anything about like legal
Speaker 1: dramas at all because I never watched Law and Order,
Speaker 1: But like when he is like, I don't ask my
Speaker 1: clients whether or not they've done it, I'm like, don't
Speaker 1: all lawyers have to pass their clients or not they've
Speaker 1: done it. Yes, But I also watched Reversal of Fortune
Speaker 1: last night Caser, which is another like hero lawyer who's like,
Speaker 1: I don't even care if you murdered them or not.
Speaker 1: It's about the law. It's about proving their holes in
Speaker 1: the story, right, Yeah. So he's trying to represent her
Speaker 1: as like this is going to become a case about
Speaker 1: her sex life and like she can do whatever she wants,
Speaker 1: but this is about or not she actually killed him.
Speaker 1: Of course they start having an affair, and the affair
Speaker 1: does fnally lead to anything except for the fact that
Speaker 1: they're having an affair. Well, it leads to, as in
Speaker 1: other erotic thrillers, a bunch of crazy uh sex scenes. Yes,
Speaker 1: staged in places other than a bed elevator another elevator.
Speaker 1: That's to count on elevators. They're all garage of conveyance,
Speaker 1: like up or down because there's the first ones on
Speaker 1: a staircase where they're like calling up over each other
Speaker 1: on the stairs. Sexiest thing in the world does Everyone
Speaker 1: knows every staircase like that smells like p How does
Speaker 1: in a house? It cannot be. It could be in
Speaker 1: a parking garage. Doesn't make think in the parking garage.
Speaker 1: Until they got to the car, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: where are they going to do? It's just on the
Speaker 1: floor the parking garage. She climbs up driver and he
Speaker 1: goes down on her from below. Yeah, let's talk about that.
Speaker 1: That's just Willem Dafoe going down on Madonna. They did
Speaker 1: not use body doubles. He's just it is kind of
Speaker 1: that's the movie is kind of worth watching forcast. Why
Speaker 1: was it like made for Madonna. It's really strange to
Speaker 1: me looking at this movie like she so apparently. The
Speaker 1: IMDb like trivia section has some really good factoids, including
Speaker 1: that she was like, yeah, the sex scenes like didn't
Speaker 1: turn me on at all, that I just viewed them
Speaker 1: as almost like scientific and Defoe was like, no, they
Speaker 1: were super sexy to me. Well, they also had the
Speaker 1: fatal attraction thing where the ending got changed, and she
Speaker 1: was like, it was misogyny. It was because it was
Speaker 1: like supposed to end before getting away with it and
Speaker 1: spoiler alert she gets killed. Um, she gets punished. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And she was like, the whole point was supposed to
Speaker 1: be like that, she shouldn't get punished even if she
Speaker 1: did do it, which spoiler alert she did. Yeah. Again,
Speaker 1: I was like, not, I enjoyed the movie because it
Speaker 1: was like shot well and it's that nineties. Everything has
Speaker 1: like there's there's a fog machine in every scene, like
Speaker 1: everything has been Phoenetian blinds and Venetian. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: made me want to watch Dick Tracy, which is maybe
Speaker 1: the only defense defense Madonna performance. I know that Molly
Speaker 1: reads the IMDb trivia did you also see? This was
Speaker 1: the second movie in two years in which Madonna plays
Speaker 1: a character who picks a bottle of champagne out of
Speaker 1: an ice bucket while wearing black underwear. The other was
Speaker 1: Dick Tracy. That crazy. I would watch Dick Tracy. I
Speaker 1: think she's great and desperately seeking Susan because she's playing herself. Um.
Speaker 1: Something about watching Madonna try to act makes me so
Speaker 1: uncomfortable because it's like she's almost good at it, but no,
Speaker 1: she's not. It's like she's and this is like her
Speaker 1: fifth movie. It is that thing where you're like, why
Speaker 1: can't you take the skill set and just like transfer
Speaker 1: it over? But it's such a good performing with Doga.
Speaker 1: It's like you're grading them on a curve of how
Speaker 1: bad you expect them to be, because most actors that
Speaker 1: are musicians are better at one thing or the other
Speaker 1: unless they're like uh, Liza Mannale, Stevan zand Steve and
Speaker 1: Zan great actor that is true underrated, super underrating, possibly
Speaker 1: the greatest actor musician who also told Paul Simon to
Speaker 1: go fund himself. And I think that this movie and
Speaker 1: I feel like this is going to be a recurring thing.
Speaker 1: But I feel like a lot of and I feel
Speaker 1: this way about basic instinct too. Obviously, is that a
Speaker 1: lot of the reason this genre exists is because all
Speaker 1: these directors of a certain generation came up on Hitchcock
Speaker 1: and they're like, what if we did it with hits
Speaker 1: like that? For sure? To me, it's still like the
Speaker 1: aim of cinema a little bit. That's why we're all here,
Speaker 1: That's how we all I also just like how when
Speaker 1: we start the erotic Odyssey segment, it's like we all
Speaker 1: just like lean back and are like bubble baths. We're
Speaker 1: also stoked to mar and that softcore porn, right because
Speaker 1: they all have like cool female protagonists. They're all these
Speaker 1: like really kind of I mean even I mean, she's
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting character, even though this is a bad movie.
Speaker 1: Like again, what I'm saying, like, what if what if
Speaker 1: she was played by Julianne Moore? Could this movie right? No?
Speaker 1: I just don't. I think the script is horrible. It's
Speaker 1: really one of those movies where you feel like it
Speaker 1: is an extraterrestrial screenwriter who's like, let's say they all
Speaker 1: live on boats, human's right, boats and they dress up
Speaker 1: like in pearls and little tiny pillbo just basic in safe.
Speaker 1: This is the like um Frasier era to where like
Speaker 1: I guess the Pacific Northwest was like glamorous. It was
Speaker 1: at the same time as grunge, but it was like,
Speaker 1: what if the Pacific Northwest, instead of being the capital
Speaker 1: of grunge was just where like it was like constant
Speaker 1: Hitchcock Noir and all the ladies. I get the idea.
Speaker 1: It's like San Francisco has the opera, and then you
Speaker 1: just keep going north. It gets like more offer, you know,
Speaker 1: until you get to Canada the opera east of them all.
Speaker 1: But I loved whenever Madonna was in an art gallery
Speaker 1: in this movie because it might be like the art
Speaker 1: gallery stuff and the player just her being like my paintings,
Speaker 1: my art beret, I'm an artist mode. Now it's not
Speaker 1: a good movie at all, but I also and yet
Speaker 1: I wasn't mad. For some reason, we have collectively forgotten
Speaker 1: that there are all these like like pretty explicit for
Speaker 1: an R rated movie sex scenes between I guess it
Speaker 1: was it came out at the same time as the Xbook,
Speaker 1: so it got overshadowed they I think De Laurentis was
Speaker 1: like Hey, can you post this book, because otherwise this
Speaker 1: movie is just going to be pegged as kind of
Speaker 1: like a preview to your book. And she was like, Nah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do me. That's that's what I do. I'm Madonna.
Speaker 1: Um listeners. If you have an erotic thriller that you
Speaker 1: would like to see featured on the podcast, or if
Speaker 1: you have any stories about zombie, bugs, food, anything on
Speaker 1: your mind, please give us a call at to four
Speaker 1: oh four six night or an email at Night Call
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. And while you're at it,
Speaker 1: please review, rate, and subscribe Tonight Call wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to podcasts. I think we got to try to get
Speaker 1: to hand the rocks of craddle. Just we can continue
Speaker 1: with that or we just do all the bodies Well.
Speaker 1: I want to come background to Basic Instinct because I
Speaker 1: kept thinking about how it is but so similar. We
Speaker 1: gotta like it's stay similar, but it works for reasons
Speaker 1: I can't fully articulate. Before we wrap up this podcast,
Speaker 1: would you guys like to take one more night Call? Hey,
Speaker 1: Night Call. This is Dan from Encino. My question is,
Speaker 1: let's say that you came across incontroversial proof of the
Speaker 1: existence of vampires. Or sea monsters or aliens. Do you
Speaker 1: think that your life could continue as normal or would
Speaker 1: you have to dedicate your life to proving what you
Speaker 1: found or would you try to just hide and pretend
Speaker 1: that you hadn't discovered this this unfathomable truth. Thanks, that's
Speaker 1: a super interesting I love this question. I think about
Speaker 1: this all the time. Um So it's the reason that
Speaker 1: I love Arrival, which I feel like I talked about
Speaker 1: on this on this podcast all the time. But I
Speaker 1: think that that's one of the only movies about an
Speaker 1: alien at least where I think that the reaction is appropriate,
Speaker 1: Like like Amy Adams literally just barfs after she has
Speaker 1: her first interaction with the aliens because it's such a
Speaker 1: it just completely turns your notion of the universe and
Speaker 1: like our place in it upside down, Like it's a
Speaker 1: paradigm shift, and you would get nauseous. I think you
Speaker 1: were to have like a physical reaction to that first
Speaker 1: get nauseous. How that's not that hard to make me nauseous.
Speaker 1: I get nauseous if I go on a hike once
Speaker 1: you finished throwing up? What would you do? Well? What
Speaker 1: if not to take it to a different question, like
Speaker 1: I always do. But what if you think you see
Speaker 1: vampires but it's just a brain parasite. But this is
Speaker 1: this it hinges on, It's incontrosible, controvertible. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it depends on It depends on what your job is.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're a journalist, you should probably uh
Speaker 1: pivot to um investigating it or something. I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you're like any other kind of civilian, you know,
Speaker 1: you take it to the appropriate people to figure out
Speaker 1: what to do with it. But I don't think that
Speaker 1: your life continues a pace. I think the only thing
Speaker 1: that I might like not act on weirdly. And I
Speaker 1: just thought of this because I realized that it was
Speaker 1: one of the examples he listed was the sea monster,
Speaker 1: because I think I would have just like I would
Speaker 1: be insecure about the fact that like maybe this thing
Speaker 1: I thought was a new sea monster was like a
Speaker 1: known creature. I thought you were going to say, like
Speaker 1: you just wouldn't trust yourself because because of your lack
Speaker 1: of not I thought you meant because the hunting kill
Speaker 1: it or like take it in and you're just protecting
Speaker 1: it like an e T. I don't think that that.
Speaker 1: I think that's something that happens in movies. As bad
Speaker 1: as the world is. I really don't think that if
Speaker 1: we discovered of sea monster that like everybody would get
Speaker 1: into a contest to try to kill it. Like I
Speaker 1: think that I think that yes, they would, they try
Speaker 1: and capture it. They would capture it, and they would
Speaker 1: sell us its blood as a startup. Right, Well, if
Speaker 1: it was posing an immediate threat, maybe they would, Like
Speaker 1: if it was like a Godzilla, but if it was
Speaker 1: just like a Laviathan type thing that was chilling out
Speaker 1: on its own money, of his own business and water,
Speaker 1: do you think Godzilla also just want to be loved?
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, but it's not Godzilla's fault. It is
Speaker 1: Godzilla is the fault of all of us. Here's the
Speaker 1: issue with this question. It's not like a bad issue
Speaker 1: or a flaw with the question, but it's something to consider.
Speaker 1: Is like with Emily, you know when Emily said, like,
Speaker 1: if it was a sea monster, you would lack the
Speaker 1: confidence to be able to describe what you had seen
Speaker 1: as being like uniquely sea monster is a vampire and aliens,
Speaker 1: so like you see you get proof of aliens. I
Speaker 1: think you have like a pretty good base of people
Speaker 1: who would believe you and you could take this to them. Vampires,
Speaker 1: you're out of luck. Like if I saw if I
Speaker 1: knew there were vampires a I wouldn't say anything because
Speaker 1: they'd come after me and be like, who wants to
Speaker 1: be on the side of people who think vampires are real?
Speaker 1: They really did not have much credibility to go be
Speaker 1: a blood source for vampires at the you would, Emily,
Speaker 1: and if there was the opportunity to walk the walk
Speaker 1: when it comes to my goth lifestyle, I would absolutely
Speaker 1: if they what if they feed off you to death
Speaker 1: though like they do, and then but then death because
Speaker 1: rush and you become a vampire, right, Yeah, it would
Speaker 1: be like if they were good vampires who were just
Speaker 1: a vampire like you know, consensual vampires versus like Peter
Speaker 1: Tiel vampires you know blood jacuzy, like you know, sacrificing
Speaker 1: children and a blood kind of thing. But I don't
Speaker 1: know what authorities you'd go to with a vampire issue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would have to be like, go to Reddit, no,
Speaker 1: not read it. I would go to like a Council
Speaker 1: of Witches. You have to go to the Catholic Church. No,
Speaker 1: absolutely not. I would find a vampire expert. So and Rice,
Speaker 1: I mean you the vampire expert in that case, I
Speaker 1: think because the question is like would you have to
Speaker 1: dedicate your life to mean this? Like I think you
Speaker 1: would have to become the vampire expert because such a
Speaker 1: thing doesn't really exist in right now, Like you would
Speaker 1: have to be that person because you had the firsthand
Speaker 1: experience with them. Well like Christians later and interviewed the
Speaker 1: vampire when he's interviewing the vampire in a way family,
Speaker 1: when you said you would just become one, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that would be the best move, is to become a
Speaker 1: vampire and then be like a spokesman for the vampires
Speaker 1: to be like we exist, we're here, Like I was
Speaker 1: a film critic at New York Magazine. Now I'm a vampire.
Speaker 1: And I hope you would still be on the podcast
Speaker 1: because that would be a really worthwhile Like you could
Speaker 1: dedicate your life minus one day a week. We'd have
Speaker 1: to actually recorded at night, though, uh, we don't record
Speaker 1: this unless you're a twilight vampire and then you just
Speaker 1: shimmer in the sun while you play old timey baseball. Also,
Speaker 1: we could you could come in the booth. We could
Speaker 1: turn off the lights there's no windows obviously to the booth,
Speaker 1: like justin Bieber, like with the blanket. Yeah, that thing's
Speaker 1: got vampiresm already fit well with our general lifestyle. It's true.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing where I would like maybe change
Speaker 1: my entire life style around it. I think like everything
Speaker 1: else would be like I would be happy to be
Speaker 1: the whistle blower or something, and not not whistle blower
Speaker 1: in a way like go go kill the alien or
Speaker 1: whatever the thing maybe, but I would be happy to
Speaker 1: be the person who's like I have the video, I'm
Speaker 1: the person who brought this to the news, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that I would necessarily be spearheading the thing.
Speaker 1: But I would like to be a bnicular rabbit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or did you mean that like figuratively? I think you understand. Um.
Speaker 1: I found out about a new UFO cult that will
Speaker 1: go visit next time Emily and time. Great. Great. Um.
Speaker 1: If you've got a question, comment, or an erotic thriller, uh,
Speaker 1: something to say about blood pills, maybe feelings about aliens,
Speaker 1: vampires and sea monsters, give us a call to four
Speaker 1: oh four six night or email us a Nightcall podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. You can also follow us on
Speaker 1: social media at nightcall podcast on Instagram, I called pod
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and I called podcast on Facebook. And please
Speaker 1: subscribe to us on iTunes, Rate review and subscribe. Tell
Speaker 1: us what you think about the show. Uh, it helps
Speaker 1: more people find it. So we really appreciate you. And
Speaker 1: that's our show for this week. Thank you, Next week,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. We're going
Speaker 1: to end death, okay,