WEBVTT - Dave Goetsch Discusses Media and Money 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:06.840 This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Boomberg Radio. 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.280 This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.520 His name is Dave Gesh and he is or was 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.599 the executive producer of The Big Bang Theory as well 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.600 as a comedy writer for that show and Third Rock 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.880 from the Sun a number of other shows. If you 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.920 are at all interested in anything having to do with 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:36.320 television entertainment, screenwriting, scriptwriting, comedy, you will find this to 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:41.800 be an absolutely fascinating conversation. So, with no further ado, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:50.080 here is my interview with Dave Gesh. My extra special 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.760 guest this week is David Getch. He is the executive 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:59.640 producer and writer of television's highest ranks sitcom, The Big 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.840 Bang Theory. He has been with the show pretty much 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.120 from the very beginning right through the season finale which 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.040 is taking place in May. He was also a writer 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.600 at Third Rock from the Sun. Dave Getch, Welcome to Bloomberg. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.840 Thank you, very welcome, So great to be here. So 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:21.080 you have a really fascinating history. How did you start 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.960 out writing for Third Rock from the Sun. How did 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.920 that come about? And for some of you who may 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.839 be a little younger, Uh, that was a show with 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:32.840 John lift Gowen and um Joseph Gordon Levitt was a 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.839 pretty popular sitcom and it stay how did you find 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:40.360 your way there? Well, I first had to learn that 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.320 you could be a sitcom writer, that that was a job. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.640 You didn't know that. Up in Connecticut, I loved watching television, 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.080 but I never thought about who wrote that stuff, who 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.720 was filming that stuff, what was that business like? And 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.480 so when I was a senior in high school, there's 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.560 a guy who just had graduated from college and he 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.560 came back and he taught for a year my school, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.440 and we ended up doing We had a little radio station, 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.120 nothing like this recording studio, and we did a little 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.600 show there with another teacher and it was these guys 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.720 are hilarious, and it was sitting around like this and 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.920 just making each other laugh. And he then left that 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:18.880 year to go to film school, and within a year 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:20.679 and a half he was a writer on Cheers. So 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.640 I stayed in touch with him. His name is Rob Long, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:24.960 and a couple of years later he was executive producer 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.640 of Cheers. So as I thought about going to college 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.000 and being a lawyer or doing whatever, in the back 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.440 of my mind, I always remembered what he described being 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.160 a sitcom writer was like, which is sitting around in 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.600 a room with ten people who are funnier than any 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.600 of your friends and trying to make them laugh and 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.160 write a little play and put it on TV and 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.919 your grandparents can watch it and that ideally along with 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.119 a few million other people. And so um. There were 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.080 a bunch of other things that I thought about doing, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.280 but ultimately, after an inner you at Goldman Sacks for 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.160 the fix with the fixed Income division, um where I said, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:06.919 you know what, I'm gonna go be a sitcom water 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.200 So I moved to Los Angeles. By the way, you 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.400 should know the fixed income desk at Goldman Sacks. Those 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.280 guys are hilarious. That meeting was unbelievable because I put 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.320 on my uncle's I didn't have a suit. I put 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.920 on my uncle's tweets suit in the middle of August, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.240 and I went down there to Wall Street and I 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.440 sat and talked to this VP and I literally didn't 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.280 know what fixed income was. You know, you just like 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.840 you go to Yale, you get interview, you know you 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.160 gotta fix it, you gotta fix it perfect. And I 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.640 remember her saying, um uh, you know, when was the 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.720 last time you read the Wall Street Journal? And I said, well, honestly, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.680 this has been a pretty crazy time for me, like 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.600 twenty two. I don't have a job, there's nothing going on. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.800 She's like, I can't believe you're going to Goldman Sax 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.720 and having a meeting and you haven't read the Wall 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.760 Street Journals. Like well, like, like I said, things with me, 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.720 my girlfriend are crazy. So so that didn't work so 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.520 that they offered me a job. In fact they did. Yeah, 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:58.600 and then but I also really liked you because they 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.800 don't sound like it was a bad start in strategy. Yes, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.320 and I apologize, are crazy? Do you have any other questions? 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:10.640 Any other things? Um? And so? Um? So you So, 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.000 the way you get into the old way of getting 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.000 into Hollywood and being a TV writer as you write, 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.680 you wrote sample scripts and then you try to get 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.080 an agent and that agent gets you a job on 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:25.159 during staffing season. Now that spec process has changed, it 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.560 has changed a lot. The first thing that's changed is 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.920 that people don't write old shows like you would write 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.000 a friend. You know, if you wanted to get on 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.200 a show when Friends is on, you'd write a sample 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.240 of Friends and then that would show even if you 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.880 weren't applying to friends. Ideally, the people of friends would 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.000 never read it. It would just be Okay, I know 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.160 this guy can write in the voice of other characters, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.400 and you can be a team player on staff. And 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.240 now what everybody wants is an original um and so 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.160 uh there. So that process has changed, and in fact, 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.880 now I teach this webisode's class at USC and I 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.560 recommend that people just shoot stuff and make it and 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.520 have a trailer, make a video, make make a It's 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.080 hard to get anybody to read anything. But if I 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.080 said to you, will you read my screenplay or will 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.359 you watch my two minute video? You might watch my 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.200 two video. But from that two minute video you'd get 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.320 a sense of hey, this guy he knows that right, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.919 knows that to direct, even if he's in it. He's 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.760 pretty funny. I'll take a meeting, then I'll read the script. 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.400 So there's the technologies allowed people to break in a 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.280 new way, but for me, it was the old fashioned way. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.880 It was get a get An agent had a writing 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.800 partner at the time, and he and I um went 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.920 and met Bonnie and Terry Turner, who are the creators 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.480 of the show they're married, they're wonderful and uh, we 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.800 had one of those just great meetings where we left 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.279 and left and in the sun and then um, and 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.320 then we got hired at the end of the first 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.880 season and how that ran a good couple of seasons. Yeah, 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.320 so that ran for six years and um, we started 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.800 as staff writers and on the last year we were 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.240 the executive producers and show owners with Christine Sander. So 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.800 let's break these titles down because they are interesting. Executive producers, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.880 show runner. Everybody kinda knows what a writer is, what's 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.039 the showrunner due, so they're The way to think about 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.359 it is that there are people who make suggestions and 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.839 there are people who decide. So the show runner decides, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.279 and all the other writers were pitching how about this, 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.279 how about this, how about that? And you might start 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.240 as a staff writer and then become a story editor, 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.000 executive story edor co producers, supervising producer, executive producer. But 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.560 those are just different steps of virtually the same thing, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.000 which is you're still in the room, you're still pitching, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.360 and hopefully you're getting paid a little bit more as 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.040 you go up the way, and eventually the showrunners, the 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.359 person who ultimately as responsible for saying they're the managing 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.000 partner of the show exactly. And um, you know, the 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.479 way I think about TV development is really in that 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.479 VC model, which is where you you write a pilot 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:53.840 and that's a business plan. You say, we think we're 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.360 gonna be able to make two hundred of these widgets, 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.240 these funny shows, but we need some money to we 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.640 need some angel investing to make a pilot. And then 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.039 you make that first pilot, the network says, okay, go 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.920 ahead and do that, and then you maybe get your 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.360 series A. That's your first season, right, and then you 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.360 have to get the second season in thurd season and 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.040 in the old days, by the fourth season you could 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:16.920 syndicate and that would be your I p O. By 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.560 the old days you can syndicate after four or five 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.120 seasons anyway. Well, so big bank theory certainly is the 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:26.160 exception to that, and it did very well in syndication. Um, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.160 in if you're selling to the new streamers like Hulu 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.440 and Netflix, they don't have syndication. They own their own 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:38.360 your content forever, so they have some different models where 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.600 they'll say, we'll give you a bonus in the fourth season, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.120 and what you're seeing a lot is that shows get 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.280 canceled in the third season makes a lot of sense. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.160 So could a show like Third Rock from the Sun 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.680 or even Big Bang get off the ground today with 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:59.440 the political correctness with the environment today make that more challenging. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:05.560 It's such an interesting question, and I ultimately have to 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:09.160 say probably, there's so many places where you could put 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:13.160 it out there, and there's just so much chance. There's 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.160 so much The role of a hit show is there's 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.560 so much luck involved. And you think about the stories 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.320 of how Seinfeld was just six episodes and then was 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.920 almost canceled, Cheers was oppd Cheers was almost canceled at 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.280 the end of the first season, and then it won 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.520 an Emmy. We got lucky in the first season where 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.880 there was a writer strike, so we did I don't know, 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.240 seven or eight episodes and then we went down and 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.240 that meant that they repeated all of those eight episodes. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.960 And then when the strike ended. Because we're multi camp sitcom, 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.199 we could get up faster and shoot more and so 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.040 people were looking for new stuff and and we had it. 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.520 And so to what degree we think that helped. But 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.200 you know, there's so many variables in all this, it's 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.800 hard to know. So Um, later this month, I'm gonna 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.199 go see John Lithgow on Broadway. He's got a new 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.240 play out. You got to work with him, and there 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.480 was what what was the experience like on Third Rock 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:07.319 from the Sun some really huge subsequent names out of that. Yeah, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:12.120 it was a it was a magical experience from top 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.000 to bottom. I got to just see the play this 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.040 past weekend, which is wonderful to Clinton play, and it was. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.160 It was so cool because there's an episode of Third 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:22.760 Rock from the Sun that my partner and I wrote 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.040 where Laurie Metcalf, who plays Hillary in this play, Um 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.559 falls in love with John Lethgo's character and they speak 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.160 to each other only an I ambig pentameter. So and 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.120 she got nominated for Emmy for that, you know, twenties 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.160 something years ago, and then later she has in her 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.120 many many roles. She's also played Sheldon's mom on Big 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.280 Nank Theory. So seeing them up on stage, I just 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.640 had I had flashbacks to working with them two decades ago. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:56.800 Working with John, Yeah, it's he He is so remarkable 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.200 and I could spend the whole time talking about out 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.600 what what a mens she is but probably the best 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.400 example of that is you know your star, you don't 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.480 need to know everybody's name. Right. He not only knew everybody, 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.760 all the writer's names, all the cruise names. There's a 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.000 Christmas gift that I have framed and it's an illustration, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.960 a cast and crew photo, but he drew it. So 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.640 he drew every person's face. Really, so imagine so you 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.320 not only know your name and who they are, but 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.360 what they look like, how to draw them. And then 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.080 for each person he colored in that person and said 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.760 to Berry, happy holidays. Loved. Really, that's amazing, you know, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.360 I almost met him. Just a quick digression. I'm at 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.360 an event in Vancouver. This has to be like ten 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.559 years ago, eight years ago, and I love ethnic cuisine 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:47.920 and there is like a crazy top ranked Indian restaurant 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.840 in Vancouver called I want to say ve something like 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.959 that v I J no reservations, But when you get there, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.600 they just start feeding appetizes and drinks while you're waiting. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.600 And we sit down at the two top and right 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.040 next to us is John Lithgow and the food was 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.360 so good. Nobody paid attention to him like he was 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.160 a big star. Then, like in New York or in 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.800 a place like this, there's like the vibe is, hey 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.880 don't right, you don't. It's always bad for him to, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.080 you know, scream it at celebrities. Um, and that's a 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.160 very New York attitude. But I was surprised to see 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.360 that in Vancouver. I didn't know if it was the 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.480 town or because the food. Yeah, crazy delicious. Let's talk 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.920 a little bit about your really terrible relationship with money 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.719 as you have described it when you were growing up. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:40.760 Explain that. So I, Um, my parents were teachers, and 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.560 so we always had enough money, but there wasn't money 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.680 that was being saved. And uh so when I started 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.760 to work in Hollywood, I had some money and I 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.640 didn't know what to do with it. And I think 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.800 from the very early days, I would always read the 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.760 business section to try and get worked up, to look 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.920 think about what's bad stuff could happen, and and there's 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.560 lots of bad stuff, and there's screens and screens of it. 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.720 And so I would I describe myself on the writing 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.360 staff as like the chief Warrior, because I would because 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:19.720 I knew enough to get scared about the Asian currency 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.480 markets or what's going to happen and I how is 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.720 the Asian currency market? I don't know. The good news 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.760 is it doesn't matter my new philosophy. I'm a long 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.240 term investor, so I don't care right what happened. So 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.360 in other words, what happened last Tuesday is not relevant 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.680 to your retirement. And so for me, it's a it's 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.559 about if I have what's your time? You must talk 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.439 about your clients all the time, What's what's your what 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.080 are your goals? What's your time horizon? If you are 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.320 thinking about twenty years from now, then what happens in 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:55.480 today's markets. I'm so fond of telling people look at 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.640 a long term chart of the market, the single worst day, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.360 the nineteen seven crash, one day crash on a bit 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.720 long term chart, it's like a little wiggle. You barely 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.480 even see it, although while you're in it, in it, well, 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.720 the world is coming to an end. But that's just 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.760 a function of perspective exactly. And I think that there's 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:18.520 this um problem that I had, which is even after 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.960 I knew that, I didn't internalize it. There's kind of 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.760 that aha moment when you start to see how all 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.840 this stuff fits together, and that's when you have the 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.280 ability to start feeling better now, not just that not 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.439 feeling like, Okay, I have enough money or I've I'm 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.760 going to be okay. It's more like I have confidence 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:43.120 in this approach that I've taken and also being comfortable 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.880 with the uncertainty. So let's talk about that, because there's 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.480 a line that you wrote, quote the markets haven't changed. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.520 They still go up and down the differences. I don't anymore. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.880 So how did you get from that process of worrying 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.840 about where the end was to Hey, markets are volatile, 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.120 they'll fluctuate, but I can't be bothered. So I was 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.000 a mess. So I had my I had my retirement 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:12.000 in cash, and the O eight oh nine happens and 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.560 it starts. Everything starts to tank, and I think to myself, 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.960 I've been waiting since I'm thirteen for this. This is 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.120 the end of the world. I knew it was going 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:19.920 to happen, but it wasn't the end of the world. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:21.720 And it was around that time that I read this 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.120 article about Gordon Murray who was writing a book called 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.320 The Investment Answer in his race against cancer. He was 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.120 trying to finish the book before um I think it 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.360 was brain cancer, and so it was extremely moving article. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.160 I ordered the book on Amazon before it came out. 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.560 I read it and things clicked for me in a 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.640 different way. This I understanding how the market works being 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.280 a long term investor, and no one ever talked about 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:52.960 having a fiduciary investment advisor. And once you realize that 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.920 there's somebody who's on your side, who's not trying to 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.680 make extra money in every single trade, and they're beating 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.320 a part for the long term. I sought out an 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.000 advisor and it's funny. I once I met with him, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:08.720 I said, Okay, I'll give you a year to see 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.280 how it is. So it proves I didn't really know. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.600 I wasn't really allowed months. Months is enough? I heard something, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.480 um amusing you had you had your agent and his 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.960 brother was an advisor, and you said, I've given enough 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.360 that family enough money. Exactly right. So c A is 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.160 one of the leaders of c A is Brian Lord 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.720 and his brother Blaine Lord, his name is also an advisors. Like, 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:33.800 I'm already given ten cent to the to the Lords, 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.480 I don't need to give a leven that. That's really uh, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:42.320 that's really funny. So so you're you're looking at, um, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.920 what is at least by traditional standards, a fairly substantial salary. However, 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.880 there's always the risk, hey, we could get canceled any time. 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.320 Who knows if this show is going to get picked up. 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.960 How do you deal with that sort of uncertainty? You 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.120 have to be fairly risk embrace sing if that's the 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.280 career choice. So this is what I realized, which is 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.720 when I became a secum writer, because I saw my 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.760 friend get a job on Cheers after a year and 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.960 a half. I totally misspriced risk. I thought going into 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.200 Hollywood was going to be a lot easier and a 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.040 lot more stable than it was, And once I got there, 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.640 I was like, oh my god, this place is a mess. 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.920 I went to meeting accountant once and he said, okay, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:27.040 well what's your what what kind of income can you 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.640 expect over the next five years? And I said, well, well, 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.600 I might never work again, so zero, or I might 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.800 syndicate a show, so two million dollars, So can we 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:39.600 budget for somewhere in between that? And that is paralyzing 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.560 for it was paralyzing for a long time. And the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:44.360 difference for me is getting on their side of it 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.680 and saying hold on a second risk, we no risk 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.360 and reward or related. We can to be afraid of 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.480 that or we can try to make a little peace 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.880 with that. And so much of my life, so much 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.880 of everyone's life, is how do you reduce risk, mitigate 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.360 how do you try to make everything seem to make 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.240 more sense? And as a storyteller, um, I was always 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.000 telling myself stories either to get racked up and nervous 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.639 or try to calm down. And it's hard, but I 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:18.840 think trying to get comfortable with that unknown is is 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:23.720 it really powerful? I can imagine. So before we leave 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:28.440 the investing space, I have to ask, you have a patent? 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.639 How on earth did that happen? So I have a 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.320 couple of friends from college and this was we graduated 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.960 in the early nineties, and uh, we had this idea. 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.239 We always wanted to start a company, and so all 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.520 of us were at the beginning of our career and um, 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.560 John Zitrain, who's now this Internet law of professor at Harvard, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.000 he's a big, big deal. He had this idea, which 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.200 was what he was a colleague our friends. If he's 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.479 a friend from college. So so it turns out it's like, uh, 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.520 this guy Sherman Min who he just so this company 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:05.760 to target um and uh uh, Zack Meanen who runs 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:10.560 a neuroscience institute in Portugal, and me and Zach and 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.840 Mary Lambert who another college friend who worked at Google, 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.720 and the thing that was incredible a couple of things 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.439 that were fun. It was a great chance for us 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.719 to all be together. And this idea for the patent was, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.600 could there be a way to communicate without having to 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.840 talk and without having to type? Could there be a 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.439 touch based way of communication? So if you and I 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.760 had a bracelet, you know, and we give it a squeeze, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.760 you say, you know what when this interview, rather rather 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:37.639 than me giving you a sign when we want to 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.680 break to go get a snack, just give me a squeeze. 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.320 And so you give me a squeeze. Or you'd be 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.520 able to tell your your kid would say when I 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.320 get to school, I'm gonna give you a squeeze. And 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.800 so it was a haptic way of communication. And we 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.480 were gonna use page networks to do it, and we 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:53.920 ended up getting a patent, but all of our lives 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:55.840 got busy, and it turns out this is actually a 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.760 pretty hard thing to build, especially in the nineties. Well, 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.320 Apple didn't have a hard I'm building it exactly and 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.919 technically it is part of the Apple Watch. So we 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.080 kept waiting for Apple to call us, and they still 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.000 haven't called. So if Tim Cook is listening to this podcast, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.840 send checks to absolutely. So you guys never tried to 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.640 enforce the patents or never tried to do something we 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.359 um we were like open to it, but um see, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.400 Apple should come by the patent so you don't sell 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.800 it to Samsung. I agree, I agree, I think that's 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.199 a really good idea. Okay, thank you very much. I 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.840 also recall hearing that you set up your own defined 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.240 benefits plan. You didn't even know that was an option 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.320 for someone who was technically self employed. Right. The structure 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.760 is all the writers and producers work for either themselves 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.240 or a separate LLC, so it's like a pass through 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.800 when they're all partners. Yeah. So what happens is after 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.920 you become a certain level of a writer, your accountant 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:54.800 will say time to make a loan out. And so 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.720 for a writer that says, what am I going to 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.879 call my name? As a writer, you think, okay, what 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.760 do I call my corporation? And some people have really 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.560 goofy dumb names for corporations on the I r S 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.280 calls that you regret that you have this really dumb name. 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.520 But the funny thing is, when you go to file 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.840 an LLC through the corporate paperwork, most of the names 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.280 have been taken. You have to really work to find 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.399 a name that any common one or two word combination. 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.679 Somebody's filed it already. Yeah, exactly. So what happened is 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.400 now that I had a financial advisor, he said, hey, 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.720 you don't know what your future is. These are good 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.840 earning years. Can you put a chunk of it away 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:40.520 to create your own pension? And that sounded great to me. 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.879 I love that idea, and I end up mentioning this 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.280 to lots of people too, because I feel like it's 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.760 surprising how many of my colleagues don't have financial advisors, 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:56.679 how much they would benefit from it, and they you 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.200 know that what you guys do, you get a bad 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:00.960 rap from all the other guys who aren't doing what 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.040 you do. Well, it's not clear who's a transactional commission 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:08.159 broker who are allowed to call themselves advisors versus a 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:13.240 fiduciary registered investment advisor who basically are like your accountant 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.840 or your lawyer are obligated to do what's in your 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.400