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Speaker 1: This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Boomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.

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Speaker 1: His name is Dave Gesh and he is or was

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Speaker 1: the executive producer of The Big Bang Theory as well

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Speaker 1: as a comedy writer for that show and Third Rock

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Speaker 1: from the Sun a number of other shows. If you

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Speaker 1: are at all interested in anything having to do with

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Speaker 1: television entertainment, screenwriting, scriptwriting, comedy, you will find this to

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Speaker 1: be an absolutely fascinating conversation. So, with no further ado,

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Speaker 1: here is my interview with Dave Gesh. My extra special

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Speaker 1: guest this week is David Getch. He is the executive

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Speaker 1: producer and writer of television's highest ranks sitcom, The Big

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Speaker 1: Bang Theory. He has been with the show pretty much

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning right through the season finale which

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Speaker 1: is taking place in May. He was also a writer

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Speaker 1: at Third Rock from the Sun. Dave Getch, Welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, very welcome, So great to be here. So

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Speaker 1: you have a really fascinating history. How did you start

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Speaker 1: out writing for Third Rock from the Sun. How did

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Speaker 1: that come about? And for some of you who may

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Speaker 1: be a little younger, Uh, that was a show with

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Speaker 1: John lift Gowen and um Joseph Gordon Levitt was a

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Speaker 1: pretty popular sitcom and it stay how did you find

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Speaker 1: your way there? Well, I first had to learn that

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Speaker 1: you could be a sitcom writer, that that was a job.

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Speaker 1: You didn't know that. Up in Connecticut, I loved watching television,

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Speaker 1: but I never thought about who wrote that stuff, who

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Speaker 1: was filming that stuff, what was that business like? And

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Speaker 1: so when I was a senior in high school, there's

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Speaker 1: a guy who just had graduated from college and he

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Speaker 1: came back and he taught for a year my school,

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Speaker 1: and we ended up doing We had a little radio station,

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Speaker 1: nothing like this recording studio, and we did a little

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Speaker 1: show there with another teacher and it was these guys

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Speaker 1: are hilarious, and it was sitting around like this and

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Speaker 1: just making each other laugh. And he then left that

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Speaker 1: year to go to film school, and within a year

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Speaker 1: and a half he was a writer on Cheers. So

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Speaker 1: I stayed in touch with him. His name is Rob Long,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of years later he was executive producer

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Speaker 1: of Cheers. So as I thought about going to college

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Speaker 1: and being a lawyer or doing whatever, in the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind, I always remembered what he described being

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Speaker 1: a sitcom writer was like, which is sitting around in

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Speaker 1: a room with ten people who are funnier than any

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Speaker 1: of your friends and trying to make them laugh and

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Speaker 1: write a little play and put it on TV and

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Speaker 1: your grandparents can watch it and that ideally along with

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Speaker 1: a few million other people. And so um. There were

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other things that I thought about doing,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately, after an inner you at Goldman Sacks for

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Speaker 1: the fix with the fixed Income division, um where I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go be a sitcom water

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Speaker 1: So I moved to Los Angeles. By the way, you

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Speaker 1: should know the fixed income desk at Goldman Sacks. Those

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Speaker 1: guys are hilarious. That meeting was unbelievable because I put

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Speaker 1: on my uncle's I didn't have a suit. I put

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Speaker 1: on my uncle's tweets suit in the middle of August,

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Speaker 1: and I went down there to Wall Street and I

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Speaker 1: sat and talked to this VP and I literally didn't

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Speaker 1: know what fixed income was. You know, you just like

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Speaker 1: you go to Yale, you get interview, you know you

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Speaker 1: gotta fix it, you gotta fix it perfect. And I

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Speaker 1: remember her saying, um uh, you know, when was the

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Speaker 1: last time you read the Wall Street Journal? And I said, well, honestly,

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Speaker 1: this has been a pretty crazy time for me, like

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Speaker 1: twenty two. I don't have a job, there's nothing going on.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I can't believe you're going to Goldman Sax

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Speaker 1: and having a meeting and you haven't read the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Journals. Like well, like, like I said, things with me,

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend are crazy. So so that didn't work so

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Speaker 1: that they offered me a job. In fact they did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then but I also really liked you because they

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Speaker 1: don't sound like it was a bad start in strategy. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I apologize, are crazy? Do you have any other questions?

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Speaker 1: Any other things? Um? And so? Um? So you So,

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Speaker 1: the way you get into the old way of getting

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Speaker 1: into Hollywood and being a TV writer as you write,

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Speaker 1: you wrote sample scripts and then you try to get

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Speaker 1: an agent and that agent gets you a job on

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Speaker 1: during staffing season. Now that spec process has changed, it

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Speaker 1: has changed a lot. The first thing that's changed is

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Speaker 1: that people don't write old shows like you would write

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Speaker 1: a friend. You know, if you wanted to get on

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Speaker 1: a show when Friends is on, you'd write a sample

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Speaker 1: of Friends and then that would show even if you

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Speaker 1: weren't applying to friends. Ideally, the people of friends would

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Speaker 1: never read it. It would just be Okay, I know

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Speaker 1: this guy can write in the voice of other characters,

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Speaker 1: and you can be a team player on staff. And

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Speaker 1: now what everybody wants is an original um and so

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Speaker 1: uh there. So that process has changed, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: now I teach this webisode's class at USC and I

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Speaker 1: recommend that people just shoot stuff and make it and

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Speaker 1: have a trailer, make a video, make make a It's

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Speaker 1: hard to get anybody to read anything. But if I

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Speaker 1: said to you, will you read my screenplay or will

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Speaker 1: you watch my two minute video? You might watch my

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Speaker 1: two video. But from that two minute video you'd get

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Speaker 1: a sense of hey, this guy he knows that right,

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Speaker 1: knows that to direct, even if he's in it. He's

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Speaker 1: pretty funny. I'll take a meeting, then I'll read the script.

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Speaker 1: So there's the technologies allowed people to break in a

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Speaker 1: new way, but for me, it was the old fashioned way.

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Speaker 1: It was get a get An agent had a writing

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Speaker 1: partner at the time, and he and I um went

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Speaker 1: and met Bonnie and Terry Turner, who are the creators

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Speaker 1: of the show they're married, they're wonderful and uh, we

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Speaker 1: had one of those just great meetings where we left

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Speaker 1: and left and in the sun and then um, and

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Speaker 1: then we got hired at the end of the first

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Speaker 1: season and how that ran a good couple of seasons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that ran for six years and um, we started

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Speaker 1: as staff writers and on the last year we were

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Speaker 1: the executive producers and show owners with Christine Sander. So

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Speaker 1: let's break these titles down because they are interesting. Executive producers,

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Speaker 1: show runner. Everybody kinda knows what a writer is, what's

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Speaker 1: the showrunner due, so they're The way to think about

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Speaker 1: it is that there are people who make suggestions and

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Speaker 1: there are people who decide. So the show runner decides,

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Speaker 1: and all the other writers were pitching how about this,

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Speaker 1: how about this, how about that? And you might start

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Speaker 1: as a staff writer and then become a story editor,

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Speaker 1: executive story edor co producers, supervising producer, executive producer. But

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Speaker 1: those are just different steps of virtually the same thing,

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Speaker 1: which is you're still in the room, you're still pitching,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully you're getting paid a little bit more as

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Speaker 1: you go up the way, and eventually the showrunners, the

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Speaker 1: person who ultimately as responsible for saying they're the managing

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Speaker 1: partner of the show exactly. And um, you know, the

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Speaker 1: way I think about TV development is really in that

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Speaker 1: VC model, which is where you you write a pilot

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Speaker 1: and that's a business plan. You say, we think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be able to make two hundred of these widgets,

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Speaker 1: these funny shows, but we need some money to we

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Speaker 1: need some angel investing to make a pilot. And then

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Speaker 1: you make that first pilot, the network says, okay, go

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Speaker 1: ahead and do that, and then you maybe get your

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Speaker 1: series A. That's your first season, right, and then you

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Speaker 1: have to get the second season in thurd season and

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Speaker 1: in the old days, by the fourth season you could

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Speaker 1: syndicate and that would be your I p O. By

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Speaker 1: the old days you can syndicate after four or five

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Speaker 1: seasons anyway. Well, so big bank theory certainly is the

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Speaker 1: exception to that, and it did very well in syndication. Um,

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Speaker 1: in if you're selling to the new streamers like Hulu

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Speaker 1: and Netflix, they don't have syndication. They own their own

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Speaker 1: your content forever, so they have some different models where

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Speaker 1: they'll say, we'll give you a bonus in the fourth season,

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Speaker 1: and what you're seeing a lot is that shows get

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Speaker 1: canceled in the third season makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: So could a show like Third Rock from the Sun

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Speaker 1: or even Big Bang get off the ground today with

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Speaker 1: the political correctness with the environment today make that more challenging.

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Speaker 1: It's such an interesting question, and I ultimately have to

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Speaker 1: say probably, there's so many places where you could put

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Speaker 1: it out there, and there's just so much chance. There's

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Speaker 1: so much The role of a hit show is there's

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Speaker 1: so much luck involved. And you think about the stories

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Speaker 1: of how Seinfeld was just six episodes and then was

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Speaker 1: almost canceled, Cheers was oppd Cheers was almost canceled at

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Speaker 1: the end of the first season, and then it won

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Speaker 1: an Emmy. We got lucky in the first season where

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Speaker 1: there was a writer strike, so we did I don't know,

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Speaker 1: seven or eight episodes and then we went down and

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Speaker 1: that meant that they repeated all of those eight episodes.

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Speaker 1: And then when the strike ended. Because we're multi camp sitcom,

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Speaker 1: we could get up faster and shoot more and so

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Speaker 1: people were looking for new stuff and and we had it.

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Speaker 1: And so to what degree we think that helped. But

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many variables in all this, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to know. So Um, later this month, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go see John Lithgow on Broadway. He's got a new

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Speaker 1: play out. You got to work with him, and there

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Speaker 1: was what what was the experience like on Third Rock

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Speaker 1: from the Sun some really huge subsequent names out of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a it was a magical experience from top

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Speaker 1: to bottom. I got to just see the play this

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Speaker 1: past weekend, which is wonderful to Clinton play, and it was.

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Speaker 1: It was so cool because there's an episode of Third

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Speaker 1: Rock from the Sun that my partner and I wrote

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Speaker 1: where Laurie Metcalf, who plays Hillary in this play, Um

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Speaker 1: falls in love with John Lethgo's character and they speak

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Speaker 1: to each other only an I ambig pentameter. So and

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Speaker 1: she got nominated for Emmy for that, you know, twenties

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Speaker 1: something years ago, and then later she has in her

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Speaker 1: many many roles. She's also played Sheldon's mom on Big

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Speaker 1: Nank Theory. So seeing them up on stage, I just

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Speaker 1: had I had flashbacks to working with them two decades ago.

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Speaker 1: Working with John, Yeah, it's he He is so remarkable

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Speaker 1: and I could spend the whole time talking about out

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Speaker 1: what what a mens she is but probably the best

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Speaker 1: example of that is you know your star, you don't

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Speaker 1: need to know everybody's name. Right. He not only knew everybody,

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Speaker 1: all the writer's names, all the cruise names. There's a

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Speaker 1: Christmas gift that I have framed and it's an illustration,

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Speaker 1: a cast and crew photo, but he drew it. So

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Speaker 1: he drew every person's face. Really, so imagine so you

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Speaker 1: not only know your name and who they are, but

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Speaker 1: what they look like, how to draw them. And then

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Speaker 1: for each person he colored in that person and said

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Speaker 1: to Berry, happy holidays. Loved. Really, that's amazing, you know,

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Speaker 1: I almost met him. Just a quick digression. I'm at

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Speaker 1: an event in Vancouver. This has to be like ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, eight years ago, and I love ethnic cuisine

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Speaker 1: and there is like a crazy top ranked Indian restaurant

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Speaker 1: in Vancouver called I want to say ve something like

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Speaker 1: that v I J no reservations, But when you get there,

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Speaker 1: they just start feeding appetizes and drinks while you're waiting.

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Speaker 1: And we sit down at the two top and right

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Speaker 1: next to us is John Lithgow and the food was

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Speaker 1: so good. Nobody paid attention to him like he was

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Speaker 1: a big star. Then, like in New York or in

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Speaker 1: a place like this, there's like the vibe is, hey

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Speaker 1: don't right, you don't. It's always bad for him to,

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Speaker 1: you know, scream it at celebrities. Um, and that's a

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Speaker 1: very New York attitude. But I was surprised to see

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Speaker 1: that in Vancouver. I didn't know if it was the

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Speaker 1: town or because the food. Yeah, crazy delicious. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about your really terrible relationship with money

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Speaker 1: as you have described it when you were growing up.

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Speaker 1: Explain that. So I, Um, my parents were teachers, and

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Speaker 1: so we always had enough money, but there wasn't money

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Speaker 1: that was being saved. And uh so when I started

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Speaker 1: to work in Hollywood, I had some money and I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what to do with it. And I think

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Speaker 1: from the very early days, I would always read the

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Speaker 1: business section to try and get worked up, to look

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Speaker 1: think about what's bad stuff could happen, and and there's

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Speaker 1: lots of bad stuff, and there's screens and screens of it.

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Speaker 1: And so I would I describe myself on the writing

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Speaker 1: staff as like the chief Warrior, because I would because

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Speaker 1: I knew enough to get scared about the Asian currency

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Speaker 1: markets or what's going to happen and I how is

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Speaker 1: the Asian currency market? I don't know. The good news

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Speaker 1: is it doesn't matter my new philosophy. I'm a long

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Speaker 1: term investor, so I don't care right what happened. So

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Speaker 1: in other words, what happened last Tuesday is not relevant

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Speaker 1: to your retirement. And so for me, it's a it's

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Speaker 1: about if I have what's your time? You must talk

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Speaker 1: about your clients all the time, What's what's your what

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Speaker 1: are your goals? What's your time horizon? If you are

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Speaker 1: thinking about twenty years from now, then what happens in

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Speaker 1: today's markets. I'm so fond of telling people look at

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Speaker 1: a long term chart of the market, the single worst day,

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seven crash, one day crash on a bit

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Speaker 1: long term chart, it's like a little wiggle. You barely

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Speaker 1: even see it, although while you're in it, in it, well,

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Speaker 1: the world is coming to an end. But that's just

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Speaker 1: a function of perspective exactly. And I think that there's

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Speaker 1: this um problem that I had, which is even after

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Speaker 1: I knew that, I didn't internalize it. There's kind of

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Speaker 1: that aha moment when you start to see how all

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Speaker 1: this stuff fits together, and that's when you have the

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Speaker 1: ability to start feeling better now, not just that not

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Speaker 1: feeling like, Okay, I have enough money or I've I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be okay. It's more like I have confidence

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Speaker 1: in this approach that I've taken and also being comfortable

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Speaker 1: with the uncertainty. So let's talk about that, because there's

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Speaker 1: a line that you wrote, quote the markets haven't changed.

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Speaker 1: They still go up and down the differences. I don't anymore.

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Speaker 1: So how did you get from that process of worrying

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Speaker 1: about where the end was to Hey, markets are volatile,

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Speaker 1: they'll fluctuate, but I can't be bothered. So I was

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Speaker 1: a mess. So I had my I had my retirement

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Speaker 1: in cash, and the O eight oh nine happens and

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Speaker 1: it starts. Everything starts to tank, and I think to myself,

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Speaker 1: I've been waiting since I'm thirteen for this. This is

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Speaker 1: the end of the world. I knew it was going

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Speaker 1: to happen, but it wasn't the end of the world.

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Speaker 1: And it was around that time that I read this

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Speaker 1: article about Gordon Murray who was writing a book called

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Speaker 1: The Investment Answer in his race against cancer. He was

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Speaker 1: trying to finish the book before um I think it

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Speaker 1: was brain cancer, and so it was extremely moving article.

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Speaker 1: I ordered the book on Amazon before it came out.

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Speaker 1: I read it and things clicked for me in a

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Speaker 1: different way. This I understanding how the market works being

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Speaker 1: a long term investor, and no one ever talked about

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Speaker 1: having a fiduciary investment advisor. And once you realize that

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Speaker 1: there's somebody who's on your side, who's not trying to

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Speaker 1: make extra money in every single trade, and they're beating

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Speaker 1: a part for the long term. I sought out an

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Speaker 1: advisor and it's funny. I once I met with him,

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Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I'll give you a year to see

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Speaker 1: how it is. So it proves I didn't really know.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really allowed months. Months is enough? I heard something,

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Speaker 1: um amusing you had you had your agent and his

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Speaker 1: brother was an advisor, and you said, I've given enough

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Speaker 1: that family enough money. Exactly right. So c A is

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Speaker 1: one of the leaders of c A is Brian Lord

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Speaker 1: and his brother Blaine Lord, his name is also an advisors. Like,

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Speaker 1: I'm already given ten cent to the to the Lords,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to give a leven that. That's really uh,

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Speaker 1: that's really funny. So so you're you're looking at, um,

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Speaker 1: what is at least by traditional standards, a fairly substantial salary. However,

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Speaker 1: there's always the risk, hey, we could get canceled any time.

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Speaker 1: Who knows if this show is going to get picked up.

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Speaker 1: How do you deal with that sort of uncertainty? You

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Speaker 1: have to be fairly risk embrace sing if that's the

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Speaker 1: career choice. So this is what I realized, which is

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Speaker 1: when I became a secum writer, because I saw my

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Speaker 1: friend get a job on Cheers after a year and

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Speaker 1: a half. I totally misspriced risk. I thought going into

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Speaker 1: Hollywood was going to be a lot easier and a

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Speaker 1: lot more stable than it was, And once I got there,

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this place is a mess.

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Speaker 1: I went to meeting accountant once and he said, okay,

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Speaker 1: well what's your what what kind of income can you

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Speaker 1: expect over the next five years? And I said, well, well,

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Speaker 1: I might never work again, so zero, or I might

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Speaker 1: syndicate a show, so two million dollars, So can we

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Speaker 1: budget for somewhere in between that? And that is paralyzing

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Speaker 1: for it was paralyzing for a long time. And the

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Speaker 1: difference for me is getting on their side of it

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Speaker 1: and saying hold on a second risk, we no risk

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Speaker 1: and reward or related. We can to be afraid of

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Speaker 1: that or we can try to make a little peace

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Speaker 1: with that. And so much of my life, so much

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Speaker 1: of everyone's life, is how do you reduce risk, mitigate

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Speaker 1: how do you try to make everything seem to make

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Speaker 1: more sense? And as a storyteller, um, I was always

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Speaker 1: telling myself stories either to get racked up and nervous

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Speaker 1: or try to calm down. And it's hard, but I

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Speaker 1: think trying to get comfortable with that unknown is is

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Speaker 1: it really powerful? I can imagine. So before we leave

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Speaker 1: the investing space, I have to ask, you have a patent?

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Speaker 1: How on earth did that happen? So I have a

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Speaker 1: couple of friends from college and this was we graduated

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Speaker 1: in the early nineties, and uh, we had this idea.

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Speaker 1: We always wanted to start a company, and so all

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Speaker 1: of us were at the beginning of our career and um,

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Speaker 1: John Zitrain, who's now this Internet law of professor at Harvard,

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Speaker 1: he's a big, big deal. He had this idea, which

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Speaker 1: was what he was a colleague our friends. If he's

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Speaker 1: a friend from college. So so it turns out it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: this guy Sherman Min who he just so this company

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Speaker 1: to target um and uh uh, Zack Meanen who runs

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Speaker 1: a neuroscience institute in Portugal, and me and Zach and

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Speaker 1: Mary Lambert who another college friend who worked at Google,

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Speaker 1: and the thing that was incredible a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that were fun. It was a great chance for us

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Speaker 1: to all be together. And this idea for the patent was,

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Speaker 1: could there be a way to communicate without having to

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Speaker 1: talk and without having to type? Could there be a

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Speaker 1: touch based way of communication? So if you and I

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Speaker 1: had a bracelet, you know, and we give it a squeeze,

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Speaker 1: you say, you know what when this interview, rather rather

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Speaker 1: than me giving you a sign when we want to

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Speaker 1: break to go get a snack, just give me a squeeze.

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Speaker 1: And so you give me a squeeze. Or you'd be

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Speaker 1: able to tell your your kid would say when I

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Speaker 1: get to school, I'm gonna give you a squeeze. And

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Speaker 1: so it was a haptic way of communication. And we

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Speaker 1: were gonna use page networks to do it, and we

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Speaker 1: ended up getting a patent, but all of our lives

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Speaker 1: got busy, and it turns out this is actually a

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Speaker 1: pretty hard thing to build, especially in the nineties. Well,

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Speaker 1: Apple didn't have a hard I'm building it exactly and

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Speaker 1: technically it is part of the Apple Watch. So we

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Speaker 1: kept waiting for Apple to call us, and they still

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Speaker 1: haven't called. So if Tim Cook is listening to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: send checks to absolutely. So you guys never tried to

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Speaker 1: enforce the patents or never tried to do something we

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Speaker 1: um we were like open to it, but um see,

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Speaker 1: Apple should come by the patent so you don't sell

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Speaker 1: it to Samsung. I agree, I agree, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a really good idea. Okay, thank you very much. I

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Speaker 1: also recall hearing that you set up your own defined

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Speaker 1: benefits plan. You didn't even know that was an option

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Speaker 1: for someone who was technically self employed. Right. The structure

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Speaker 1: is all the writers and producers work for either themselves

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Speaker 1: or a separate LLC, so it's like a pass through

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Speaker 1: when they're all partners. Yeah. So what happens is after

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Speaker 1: you become a certain level of a writer, your accountant

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Speaker 1: will say time to make a loan out. And so

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Speaker 1: for a writer that says, what am I going to

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Speaker 1: call my name? As a writer, you think, okay, what

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Speaker 1: do I call my corporation? And some people have really

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Speaker 1: goofy dumb names for corporations on the I r S

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Speaker 1: calls that you regret that you have this really dumb name.

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Speaker 1: But the funny thing is, when you go to file

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Speaker 1: an LLC through the corporate paperwork, most of the names

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Speaker 1: have been taken. You have to really work to find

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Speaker 1: a name that any common one or two word combination.

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Speaker 1: Somebody's filed it already. Yeah, exactly. So what happened is

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Speaker 1: now that I had a financial advisor, he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what your future is. These are good

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Speaker 1: earning years. Can you put a chunk of it away

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Speaker 1: to create your own pension? And that sounded great to me.

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Speaker 1: I love that idea, and I end up mentioning this

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Speaker 1: to lots of people too, because I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: surprising how many of my colleagues don't have financial advisors,

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Speaker 1: how much they would benefit from it, and they you

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Speaker 1: know that what you guys do, you get a bad

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Speaker 1: rap from all the other guys who aren't doing what

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Speaker 1: you do. Well, it's not clear who's a transactional commission

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Speaker 1: broker who are allowed to call themselves advisors versus a

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Speaker 1: fiduciary registered investment advisor who basically are like your accountant

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Speaker 1: or your lawyer are obligated to do what's in your

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Speaker 1: best interest. And that's been an ongoing debate in Congress

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Speaker 1: for a while. The President Obama, his Department of labor

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Speaker 1: Um past that, hey, for retirement accounts they must be fiduciary.

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Speaker 1: That rule was just overturned by the new administration, and

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Speaker 1: so it's very ambiguous. It's very and even worse, there

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Speaker 1: are now hybrid broker dealer r I A So what

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Speaker 1: had am I wearing? Am I wearing a a fiduciary

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Speaker 1: hatam or I'm wearing a commit So it's really it's

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Speaker 1: so complex and so unclear, when really we could just

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Speaker 1: clean this up and say either everybody needs to be

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Speaker 1: a fiduciary or if you're not a full blown fiduciary,

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Speaker 1: you can't call yourself a plan or an advisor. You

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Speaker 1: have to be either a CFP or an r I

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Speaker 1: A blah blah blah with all the acronyms. But this

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Speaker 1: could be cleaned up. There's too much money at stake

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Speaker 1: from people who don't want it to be cleaned up.

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Speaker 1: I think the estimate was just for retirement accounts was

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Speaker 1: seventeen billion a year in fees, So of course there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of opposition to that. Yeah, And the upside

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Speaker 1: of having a fiduciary advisor is that your things keep

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Speaker 1: changing in your life. You have kids, you lose spouses,

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Speaker 1: you inherit money, I think you have health challenges. Things

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Speaker 1: change all the time. And there I mean you spend

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Speaker 1: all your time. I spent all my time with all

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Speaker 1: these writers in all these rooms, and we don't talk

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Speaker 1: about money because it's too scary and stressf I eyone

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Speaker 1: talked about different things. But you want to be able

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Speaker 1: to call up somebody and say, hey, I need some help.

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Speaker 1: What is this? And so I'm super grateful for my

430
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: advice are and um, hey I need a trust in

431
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: the state's lawyer. I need somebody who can help me

432
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: with this. They have that network. Yeah, exactly. And I

433
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: know markets are going to go down. I know there's

434
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: gonna be sometime in my lifetime. Things are probably Historically

435
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: things go down some giant thing again like eight seven

436
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: or whatever, or or oh eight or nine it was.

437
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: And it's going to be really good to have somebody

438
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: that I can talk to you to say, I know

439
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: we said this is gonna happen. I'm freaking out, are you? Uh,

440
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk this out before I do something reckless.

441
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: It sounds like a smart approach. Let's let's talk a

442
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: little bit about the show. It's been the top rated

443
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: sitcom for how long? Now? For a really long time,

444
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure. For years. Yeah, we've We've had

445
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: a great run. And there are a ten writers that

446
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: all work together in this really unique way. And you

447
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: say unique because I always think of um, my framework

448
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 1: is shows like Curb Your Enthusiasm, which is also its

449
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: own thing, or or Seinfeld, where one or maybe two

450
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: people would write a script and then we'd go to

451
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: the writers and the jokes would be added. You guys

452
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: do a very different approach. It's not a single writer

453
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: and then it's punched up. It's a whole group discussion,

454
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: right right. The standard model is to have you break

455
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: the story around a big table and then and come

456
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: up with an outline and send one or two writers

457
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: off to write it and then come back and get notes.

458
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: But with Chuck LORI noticed in his long storied career

459
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: was that when those scripts came back, you spent a

460
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: lot of time rewriting them. So what if we just

461
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: had this borg and had everybody's eyes on the script,

462
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: and we went through it. And one of the things

463
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 1: that happened when you go off to write a script is,

464
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: of course it sounded great when you were talking about

465
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: it sounded awesome in that little outline, but now it

466
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Or even better, you came up with

467
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: a twist that is better for the story, but you've

468
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: got it approved, and you've got to kind of stick

469
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: to the outline and you don't want to bug the

470
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: show runner. And what we've been what we've been able

471
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: to do is uh, sit around the room, come up

472
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: with it together, write the script together, and then have

473
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: that freedom to pivot and turn and follow the story.

474
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: So sometimes people will say, oh my gosh, I didn't

475
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: see how that was gonna happen at the end, and

476
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: we said, we neither did we. We discovered it along

477
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: the way. There'll be more fun to go this way

478
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: or to go that way. Now, now we're in the

479
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: Chuck Laurie era of television where the laws were passed

480
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: and no sitcom to beyond unless it's either created or

481
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: produced by Truck Laurie. Is that is that more or

482
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: less true? He? Uh? He if you think about all

483
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: of his shows, right, it's um, It's Two and a

484
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: Half Men, was so It's Sybil, Grace, under Fire, Dharma

485
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 1: and Greg, Two and a Half Men, Big Bank Theory, Mom,

486
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: Mike and Molly, and you just want a golden globe

487
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: for Kaminsky, which I love Netflix, And and now his

488
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: new show just got picked up, Bob Hart's Abashola, which

489
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: is going to be on CBS, and I saw the pilot.

490
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: It's really really funny. And so it's no, he's he's

491
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: incredibly talented. But he also in addition to that, he

492
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: has this process for making a show which is different

493
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: from the way other people make shows, and that and

494
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: that ends up having a big impact on how successful

495
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: the show, or at least that's the correlation that seems

496
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: to exist. He touches something and it I mean, has

497
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: he had many shows that haven't worked out, especially well

498
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: you have to think about it to know, yeah, yeah,

499
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: there is a there's there's a story that a long

500
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: long time ago some network bought a show with him

501
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: and Tyler Perry. Right, those are like the two most popular,

502
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: those guys that that that show didn't get on the air.

503
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: But those two guys but he I don't think anyone

504
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: has the track record like it's astonished so one of them.

505
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: So my wife literally started watching The Big Bang Theory

506
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: from the first show, and I watched more or less

507
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: what she watches other than a handful of Project Runway

508
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: or Flip This House. And I will specifically notice how

509
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: the show has iterated over what is it twelve season,

510
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: two seventy nine episodes, which is slightly more than your episodes.

511
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: You're like two fifties something. I'm coming up on two

512
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: fifties soon. Soon, you'll pass. But it's only taking me

513
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: five years to get that. That's the beauty of once

514
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: a week and and that's the beauty of two it's

515
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: sitting and talking in a room as opposed to a

516
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: whole television productive. So I've noticed in the beginning the

517
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: thing that was so appealing to me. I don't watch

518
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: a lot of television, um, but I got pulled into

519
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: the show because everybody was pretty dysfunctional. This was a

520
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: group where most of the main characters, certainly the four

521
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: male characters, were at various points on the spectrum. Certainly,

522
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: it's implied that Sheldon is either autistic or Asperger's or

523
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 1: somewhere on the spectrum, and over the years that's kind

524
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: of moderated a little bit. We've mainstreamed them. Tell us

525
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: about how this has evolved and how do you stay

526
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: true to those original characters. Well, I think it's a

527
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: testament to Bill Pretty and Chuck creating this show, which

528
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: was those characters were inspired by Bill Pretty's experiences here

529
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: in New York working at a computer company and really

530
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: brilliant people, not exactly the most socially exactly so depth

531
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: so brilliant people who are not socially not the geniuses

532
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: socially that they are in other ways. And so the

533
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: amazing thing about television is how you can tell such

534
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: a long story and how people can change at at

535
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: a rate that is a little bit more consistent with

536
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,479
Speaker 1: how things happen. It's hard in a movie to have

537
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: how do these these movies where it's like you tell

538
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: the story of somebody's life in ninety minutes, he's a

539
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: jerk and now he's enlightened, and what a great guy exactly,

540
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: And so for us, the way it's always been is

541
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: to follow the characters and not necessarily know where we're going.

542
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: Like when mine Bi Alex showed up to be to

543
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: go on a date with Sheldon. I think she had

544
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: two lines in her. It was a season finale of

545
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: maybe season three or something. This is because Howard had

546
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: set them exactly without without Sheldon knowing, set him up

547
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: on a web dating website exactly and basically just made

548
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: Sheldon a complete and total accurate depiction of somebody again

549
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: pretty much on the spectrum, and lo and behold, here

550
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: she comes, Here she comes, and she was um. She

551
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: was great to work with, and then we brought her

552
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: back for another episode and then another episode. And I

553
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 1: don't think the plan was ever Sheldon's in the ten

554
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: years from now, Sheldon's going to marry her? Was it

555
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: the second season? Was it that early? I remember? I

556
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: think it was the It's all blurs together, but I

557
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: think it was season three because what ended up happening

558
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: with her introduction was it went from a story about

559
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: four dysfunctional guys too pretty much for dysfunctional couples and

560
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: how they manage their lives in spite of the fact

561
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: that they're all a little wacky. Melissa Row, who plays

562
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: Bernadette and my biolic could play Amy, deserved enormous credit

563
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: for what they brought to the show, and what they

564
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: the stories they allowed us to tell, so it didn't

565
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: just be still be about four nerds who were trying to, um,

566
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, go to the comic bookstore as much as

567
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: they can use Google maps to find um I forgot,

568
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: what was the Bachelorette or one of those shows where

569
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: where all of the America's top martin us top a

570
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: bunch of beautiful women with low self esteem because they've

571
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: been rejected and they figure out how to go set

572
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: up their WiFi. Yeah, and that is a part of

573
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: the show and it's that's so fun. And what became

574
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: even more fun was just to just to be able

575
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: to tell more stories. Did you ever get any did

576
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: the writers or the producers ever getting me pushed back

577
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: from any advocacy groups that had um autism or aspergers

578
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: or anything like that because of the way, uh they

579
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: were being uh depicted. So we never um what it is,

580
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: said what it is and but anyone with Google and

581
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: Wikipedia can figure it out. Well. We we had some

582
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: really uh meaningful, wonderful connections where people have come to

583
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: us and said, you know, um, my son identifies with

584
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: Sheldon and we every day we sit down and we

585
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: watch an episode and then and we talk about it,

586
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: and we talked about what Sheldon is going through when

587
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: we talk about my son's going through, and that we

588
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: didn't intend to do that, but it's something that we're

589
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: so proud of as a group. And I think that

590
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: we certainly the you know, among the ten writers, everybody

591
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: is protective of the characters, and I think that Shower

592
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,959
Speaker 1: Steve malaro Um in a ways is the most protective

593
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: in a in a really wonderful way. And what's going

594
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: to make sure that Sheldon never did anything that would uh,

595
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, cross the line or be objectionable, and so, uh,

596
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: we we really care about these characters and they they

597
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: are alive to us. I can I can totally see

598
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: see why that would be Um. I mentioned the show

599
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: has iterated over the years. Because it's on syndication, I

600
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: frequently will see like a first or second or third

601
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: season show. It was really edgy in the beginning. I mean,

602
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: he had had some really sharp elbows like where you gasp,

603
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: like wow, that's hilarious, but oh my god, nobody else

604
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: on TV says anything like this, Yeah, and what happened

605
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: is around So when the show syndicated around season four.

606
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: It's normal that when the show syndicates, the audience grows,

607
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: more people find it and they say, hey, I want

608
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: to check out the name. It's a commercial for the

609
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: current show exactly. But what we found is that families

610
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: love to watch the show together and they would people.

611
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: We have an audience that of two or fifty people

612
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: that comes on Tuesday night to watch live studio audience

613
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: and it's not laugh track. We have microphones in the audience,

614
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: and so those people would stand up and and and

615
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: thank us or tell us that this is the only

616
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: show I get to watch with my family. And that

617
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: was really stuck with Chuck. And you know, he had

618
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: created two and a half Men, and that's not necessarily

619
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: a show that you can watch with your children, with

620
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: your kids, and that wasn't intended to be that way.

621
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: And so we we heard how the audience was growing

622
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: and moving and and then and as I as I recall,

623
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: even a lot of us have kids, and we started

624
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: watching the show with our kids. And so it was

625
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: more of just a gut check, which is do I

626
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: want to that joke is funny? But do I want

627
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: my honestly next to my daughter? And and hear that,

628
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: and so it became I think a little broader and

629
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: broader appeal in that way. Right, So in the early

630
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: days there would be the wood jokes with Sheldon and everybody.

631
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: He has to be doing this on purpose, all the

632
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: double on andres yes that he was oblivious to, you know,

633
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: leading up to the series finale. That had to be

634
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: a bitter sweet experience. This has been twelve years of

635
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah, I have a picture I'll show you

636
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: of twelve years of all the scripts because we have.

637
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: The way a multicam works is we do a table

638
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: read on Wednesday and we rewrite all the jokes that

639
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: don't work. On Thursday, we do a rehearsal, we see

640
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: the actors perform it just like a a We fix

641
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: all the things that don't work on Friday, same thing.

642
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: We appreciate some stuff on Monday, and then on Tuesday,

643
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: in front an audience, we film the whole thing. So

644
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: so that's the third So when you see what's what's broadcast,

645
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: that's really the third time everybody's going through it. Yeah,

646
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: and that is a difference from Modern Family or Arrest

647
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: of Development, which is like a movie. Maybe, And because

648
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: they'll do a table read if they're lucky, and then

649
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: they are. They board it, and then they're shooting it

650
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: in pieces all over town, some in sound stage and stuff,

651
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: and that is It's incredible how they make that look

652
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: like a movie. What I love about the multi camp

653
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: is that you have these chances to watch it and

654
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: watch it like a play and tweak the jokes and

655
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: listen to the audience and have that interplay. And so

656
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: that became as we went through season twelve and getting

657
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: to the final episode, these filmings became so emotional because

658
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: our audience was going through it too, and in the

659
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: last episode that we shot, people started waiting out the

660
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: night before to try to get tickets, and um, it was.

661
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: It was festive and joyous, but but also really emotional.

662
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: And the only thing I could compare to is I

663
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: got to go. One of the great things about the

664
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: show is how scientists like it and people from JPL come.

665
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: And so I got invited to go to JPL for

666
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: when Cassini Show into the Cassini Mission, and that was

667
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: like at four o'clock in the morning and everybody, hundreds

668
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: of people were there. But I got to sit in

669
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: the room with all these scientists who had worked on

670
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: it over the last twenty five years, and these guys,

671
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: who are quite reticent, we're just watching the satellite and

672
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: their tears were coming down their face, not not because

673
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: they were sad, it was just this is the conclusion

674
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: of a big part of your life. Years. That's a

675
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: that's a really long time. So last question about The

676
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: Big Bang. Are people watching this live as a broadcast,

677
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: or they're d V ring it, or they streaming it

678
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: as an on demand You have to have seen how

679
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: that has evolved over the because you guys launched right

680
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: into the start of really a totally new era in television.

681
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: The iPhone hadn't come out when Sish when The Big

682
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: Bang Theory started, YouTube was about two years old, and

683
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: so it is fascinating to think about how much the

684
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: world has changed, and also how this show has been

685
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: so popular despite being made the same way I Love

686
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: Lucy's made. So we talked about how there's so much innovation,

687
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: but at the same time, this way of making things

688
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: still worked. So it's been fascinating to watch how it changes.

689
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: We we used to look at the ratings and then

690
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: we then they started to do plus threes for three

691
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: days and plus seven and see how it continues to

692
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: be because after because those ratings, you would say, wow,

693
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: the ratings are going down compared to two years ago,

694
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: but within three days their way up and within seven

695
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: days their way up. And so it's not just that

696
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: there's one way of consuming any of this stuff and

697
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: you have to be prepared to to get it out

698
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: to everybody. One thing that is different, though, is this

699
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: idea of watching something every week versus if you made

700
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: twenty episodes on Netflix and just dumped it, people will

701
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: burn through it. It's it's a different kind of an experience,

702
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 1: and so as it's fascinating as storytellers to think about

703
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: how to tweak those episodes, because I remember somebody being

704
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: on the plane and watching an episode of House and

705
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: saying like, oh my god, I've never seen the show.

706
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: Was amazing, and then they I'm watching another one, and

707
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: they watched another episode like that was really good. It

708
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: was quite like the first episode. The episode they were

709
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: like that was remarkably like the third episode. But the

710
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: point was because it wasn't intended to be watched. It

711
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: was every week, we give you something that you like,

712
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: which is different, but within the confines of it being weekly.

713
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: It's fine, but you're not gonna watch twenty six episodes

714
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 1: of House in the Road. So a couple of shows

715
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: is that. Um I started binging when MS. Maisel came

716
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: out and when Jack Ryan came out Day one. I

717
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: started watching both of them, and I found that if

718
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: you you only have a finite supply of it, you

719
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: have to pat yourself otherwise you're gonna watch it in

720
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: a in three weeks and now you get to wait

721
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: forty nine weeks until the next one comes. And it

722
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: does you know, just banging through a bunch of them,

723
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: it does lose a little something when you watch it

724
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: and you get to think about it and digest it

725
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: and wait a week and then next so we The

726
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: Expanse is another one that I like to I don't

727
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: want to over binge, although I'll watch one or two

728
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: of them in a row, and but you want to

729
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: give it a little time to settle in. It's it's

730
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: not great to to just I know people who will

731
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: kill the whole season in a in a weekend, and

732
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: I think it loses a little bit of something or

733
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: am I You know, it just depends on what that

734
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: show is. I remember watching the first season of twenty

735
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 1: four in less than twenty four hours. It was back

736
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: going with the blockbuster and was just like get them

737
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: and watch them and burn through them all. So it's

738
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: more like is it a giant movie? Is that the

739
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: novel you want to just can't put down, or is

740
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,919
Speaker 1: it something that you want to like incorporate into your life.

741
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: So it's as I think, as writers, how you want

742
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: this to be consumed is relevant, and the Sopranos is

743
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: maybe the extreme version of that, which is or Game

744
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 1: of Thrones. Waiting two years between those shows didn't help

745
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: you forget, like, wait, what's that connection? Could we make

746
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: control like the Big Bang going forward? Or is that

747
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: era now over? Well I'm such an idiot because I

748
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: remember telling Bill Prady at season one this, you know,

749
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: we live in a new era of television. Syndication is over.

750
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: There's no way I love this show. I hope it,

751
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: I hope it's successful, but there's no way you're ever

752
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: going to make any money in syndication. And I was

753
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: very wrong. It was very very wrong. So it seems

754
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 1: like it's never too late. There's there's always audiences like

755
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: these shows. I love multi camps because their characters that

756
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: people want to invite into your house and and have

757
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 1: a relationship with them. Uh. Let's talk a little bit

758
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: about the entertainment industry. There are so many interesting things,

759
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: uh that are going on. But first I have to

760
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,720
Speaker 1: ask you about the Emmy's. The show and its actors

761
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: and writers have been nominated. I don't know ninety seven

762
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: times for Emmy's. Do you go to the Emmy's. What

763
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: is that experience? Like? If you get nominated, you go

764
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: to the Emmys. You just go, You just go. And

765
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: there's our editor, Peter Chacos was started getting Emmy's on

766
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: Cheers and nominations on Cheers and on Will and Gray's.

767
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: And by the time he started getting them on a

768
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: Big Bang, it was his twentieth nomination and no win.

769
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: So you know it's so he went, well, he just thought,

770
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: he's Susan Lucci. He's never gonna happen. It's never gonna happen. See,

771
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: I believe in me and reversion. Eventually he has to win,

772
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: and he did. Was he reverted to the means. So

773
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: he won I think three or four in a row. Uh,

774
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: the and then that's it again. No, No, I hope

775
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: he will keep winning and winning he the the Emmys

776
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: are really fun. And what's interesting is when you go

777
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: on different years and see, like whose show it is.

778
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: So one year we got to sit in the row

779
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: right with Homeland and that was the year the I

780
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: think it was the first season, and they won, and

781
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: they won big, and it's you know, first of all,

782
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: it's like really looked down here, like, hey, there's Manny Patankan.

783
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: You know, that's fun. Claire Danes is great in that.

784
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: Clara Danes is wonderful in that show. And then and

785
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: then they win and they go up on stage and

786
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: it's amazing, and so, uh, it's fun no matter what.

787
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: And but it's fun to win, isn't it. It's I've

788
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: never won an Emmy, so I don't know, but it

789
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: seems really fun and it's been. It's interesting to think

790
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: about Chuck Glory, who, well he hasn't won an Emmy ever,

791
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 1: how is that possible? It is not one of writing Emmy,

792
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: but almost all of his characters have. And I think

793
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: it's a testament to how he creates shows that are

794
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: so focused on characters that an actor can have a

795
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: great script to really knock get out of the park.

796
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: And it's it's an it's you know, you think he's Alison.

797
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: Janny just won when Jim Parsons won forever every year. Yeah,

798
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: but didn't the show wasn't the show Best Comedy Emmy

799
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: for long? Doesn't It isn't that really the creators so

800
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: that we got nominated I think three or four times,

801
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: but it was during the run of Modern Family. So

802
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: Modern Family run won a lot, and then we went

803
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: a couple of times for The Rock from the Sun,

804
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: but that was when Fraser was winning and those guys,

805
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: you know, Frasier one like eight years in a row.

806
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: Modern Family went six years in a row. But you

807
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: guys started long before Modern Family, right, We were a

808
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: couple of years before Modern Family for sure. So so

809
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: that's that's the army. That's kind of interesting. Um, have

810
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,879
Speaker 1: you noticed any changes in Hollywood since the me too

811
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,439
Speaker 1: movement began? And specifically within your show? So I think

812
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: that around Hollywood people are people get it now. It's

813
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: what I've been hopeful that this time would happen, and so, um,

814
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: I think the culture is changing and it's not that

815
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: hard to do, you know. There when you're in a

816
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: writer's room, it's important to have everyone be able to

817
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: speak freely, and so there was even a friend's lawsuit

818
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: years ago where the California Supreme Court guaranteed the right

819
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: of the writers to cross the line. Because the line

820
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: is if you start self editing yourself in a creative format,

821
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: you're going to really radically cut back what what can

822
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: be done right. And there is a way to speak

823
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: freely but also be respectful of everyone in the room.

824
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: And in fact, if you're trying to get the most

825
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: out of everybody, if you're pitching jokes that might hurt

826
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: people's feelings or or you don't want to do anything

827
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: that silences other people in the room, you know. So

828
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: I think that the I think this is all positive

829
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: for making better shows, and we're going to see, i think,

830
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: in the next few years, just more at what we've

831
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: seen already, which is just more diversity of voices, which

832
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: is terrific and it's gonna it's going to make better content. Well, well,

833
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: we'll be looking forward to that. So, as executive producer,

834
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: how much responsibility do you take for the financial success

835
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 1: of The Big Bang theory A most none so um,

836
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: I certainly, Uh yeah, I'm just so grateful to be

837
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: a part of this show, and you really started pretty

838
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: much from the what was it the second episode? Yes,

839
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: so the pilot is the first episode, and then you know,

840
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: the first episode of season one is uh is episode two.

841
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: So Steve Miller and I were there from the beginning,

842
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: and um, the there are so many people that deserve

843
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: credit way ahead of me, and I think that it's

844
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: been so cool to just watch how this has grown

845
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: and evolved and nobody, really, I don't think people I

846
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: knew that this show, a show about four nerds, was

847
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: going to be connect with people and be so popular

848
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: with them. And when did you start to think, hey,

849
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: this thing is becoming a monster? How long did it take?

850
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: There was a press tour that the cast took and

851
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: I think it was maybe at the end of season one,

852
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: between season one and season two, or between season two

853
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: and season three, so that what you guys went to

854
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 1: Comic Con. So we went to Comic Con and that

855
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: was that was definitely a moment where like, wow, people

856
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: are into the show. Yours for sure, yes, but these

857
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: and then you guys write it into the show, which

858
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: was hilarious. And we always had every year of Comic

859
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: Con we'd have a little real so we would have

860
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 1: all the nerdiest jokes and the superhero references and references

861
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: to Comic Con, and we always wanted to shoot at

862
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: Comic Con, but it's in July, and it never It

863
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: was always too hard to do um And so the

864
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: I think the moment for me was when the actors

865
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: came back from a press tour in Mexico City and

866
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: they were all the eyes were wide open and they

867
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: were just like we were the Beatles, like it was,

868
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, there was security and there were hundreds of

869
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: people waiting at the whole tell and they didn't even

870
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: know the show was. They thought they were promoting that

871
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: the show was going to be in Mexico, but it

872
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: had already become a huge hit. And there was a

873
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: moment for me also where I met somebody, a Chinese

874
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: person who said, um, I learned English watching your show.

875
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: Really that's kind of interesting. And it's the number one

876
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: comedy in China too. Let me think about that. I'm

877
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: wondering what cultural things wouldn't translate, but I guess it

878
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's just a quirky family and so that's

879
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: kind of universal, even though the specifics are so unique

880
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: to the show, right that you know, jokes about Pasadena

881
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: aren't going to play in Beijing, but you can. You

882
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: know what it's like, Uh, that it's that core dynamic

883
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: of friendship, about relationships, about trying to find love, trying

884
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: to find career success, and that has been able to translate.

885
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: So when you look at around what's going on with Hollywood.

886
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: You have giant mergers, you have related to the show,

887
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: all the superhero stuff just going ballistic. When when Disney

888
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: starts cranking out Marvel comics after that purchase Marvel Comics

889
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: movies four times a year, what do you think the

890
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: future of this is going to be in the entertainment space?

891
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: I don't mean just from the Four Guys perspective, but broader.

892
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: Is it becoming a nerds entertainment world? It's such an

893
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: interesting question. I feel we're in this wild moment where

894
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: within three weeks of each other, Um, the Marvel arc,

895
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, big bang, they're all ending, and so

896
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: will we look back just the Avengers arc is ending,

897
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: Marvel is going to have a million comics they haven't

898
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: even touched into. You know, that's true, that's true. Um,

899
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: I do you think it will? It will have to

900
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: continue to innovate, right, you have to find you can't.

901
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: There weren't. There'd never been an arc like Avengers in

902
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: a movie. You've never seen anything like Game of Thrones

903
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: before Big Bang, you're heading out a show like that.

904
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of like why Reality TV was hot,

905
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh wait, I've never seen a show

906
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: with guys stuck on an island, and but I thought

907
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: that was cheap. That's why that was so well. Those

908
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: ratings were great. Those ratings were really great. And so

909
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: it's I will I will admit to watching the first

910
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: couple of seasons of Survivor and then it kind of

911
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: got repetitive. It's interesting people on staff still love that

912
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: show like they they still love it and there's something

913
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 1: special about it. The So it's just about being able

914
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: to innovate and entertain an audience. And as you have

915
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: fewer giant corporations, are they to become more risk averse?

916
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: Are they going to say, well, we know Avengers worked,

917
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: so let's make more marvel. You know? It's they just

918
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: did that with Star Wars, right, They cut back on

919
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: a Star Wars movie because the one before it didn't

920
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: do as well. Well. They were cranking out, cranking out

921
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: too fast and too too much. Um. Although when we

922
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: look at risk aversion look at Disney, all right, So

923
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: they buy Star Wars and they buy Marvel and they

924
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,959
Speaker 1: buy Fox and they said, oh yeah, Netflix, We're gonna

925
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 1: put out Netflix at half the price they seem to

926
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: be taking. We're embracing risk. I don't know if everybody

927
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: else is, but when a giant company like Disney has

928
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: figured out, if we don't throw stuff up against the wall,

929
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: we'll never know what. You know, it's a great Jeff

930
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: Bezos quote. If we don't fail, we're not taking enough

931
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: chances to see what might work. Yeah, exactly. And they

932
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: just took a big write down on Vice so that

933
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, like that's the thing you take big right

934
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: down for them. It was a couple hundred million dollars,

935
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: which is really Ah, I thought you don't track all

936
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: this stuff? Or is that Hollywood enough? That's entertainment? Yeah, exactly,

937
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: yellion dollar right down for Disney's. Like I had a

938
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: fight out of Bill. I can't find where to go,

939
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: where to go? It's um, you know, I I think

940
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: the stuff to me that's so interesting is how people

941
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,919
Speaker 1: are able to build businesses outside of that model. So

942
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: watch how sitcoms, you know Ray with Insecure, or the

943
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: guys that made High Maintenance, they started as web series,

944
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: they did proof of concept. Uh, there's a moment where

945
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: these shows can live on their own or come into

946
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: the corporate structure. And so how for people breaking One

947
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: of the things I say is that to this the

948
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 1: students at USC that I teaches that part of breaking

949
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: into Hollywood might not be breaking into Hollywood. That you

950
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: might if you can be entrepreneurial and think about new platforms.

951
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: And you know, TikTok is this huge thing that's happening

952
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: right now that if you're under twenty five you'd love it.

953
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 1: And so how can you become a great content creator

954
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: for TikTok or how can you how can you monetize that?

955
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: How can you do new things people haven't done before?

956
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 1: So last question about this, what is the entertainment industry

957
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: you're gonna look like ten or twenty years from now?

958
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: Is it going to be what we think of as

959
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: Hollywood or as you are implying, it's going to be

960
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: far more vulcanized and far more spread out, and not

961
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: the old studio system remotely well this The simple answer

962
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: is nobody knows. But the stuff that's interesting to me

963
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: is that there we're going to be more and more

964
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 1: like Spotify, where everything is available all on demand, and

965
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: for me, that makes me want to Actually, maybe it's

966
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: just something older. I don't want to. I don't want

967
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: to listen to more music. When I have access to

968
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: more music, it's kind of overwhelming, Like I want to

969
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: go to my record collection and I was like, oh,

970
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: I'll play that. That's the beauty of Pandora versus Spotify

971
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: is that you can seed a playlist with your favorites

972
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 1: and yet stuff that's similar. And that's the most interesting

973
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: thing about Spotify is that it will have these recommended

974
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: lists with is a great way to find new music.

975
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: So for me, it's like the Netflix algorithm suggesting what

976
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: shows you want is fascinating. But also, are we just gonna,

977
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: you know, to do the economic parallel? Are we gonna

978
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: have too much faith in models? And so what is

979
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: the role of humans being able to kind of create

980
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: and innovate? And then the the other thing that I

981
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 1: wonder about is how you see it in every family

982
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: where it used to be one TV screen and everyone's

983
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: got a tablet, and everyone complains about that, but from

984
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: a content creator standpoint, it means, hold on a second.

985
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: We just went from needing four shows at the same

986
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 1: time one showed at the same time, to four shows

987
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: at the same time. And as you get to driverless cars,

988
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: what are people gonna do? They're gonna watch TV. So

989
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: so when you think about you twenty years from now,

990
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: you're in a driverless car, that's super luxurious. You get

991
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: to live far out of town because it doesn't matter.

992
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: You commute in for an hour back you've planned, I'm

993
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: gonna watch Game of Thrones Part nine on that ride

994
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: in and on the ride out. How you can consume

995
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: this content is going to drive a lot of what

996
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be and how long it's going to

997
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: be and where it's going to go. So so I

998
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: agree with you, except I think they're going to spend

999
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: more time listening to podcasts. I agree people. I love

1000
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: podcast I love driving. I drove to uh Sacramento and

1001
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts and it's much more engaging than music.

1002
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 1: It's it's so different because it's a whole long story.

1003
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: We're gonna a little bit. Can you stick around a

1004
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: few minutes. I have a bunch of more questions for you.

1005
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Dave Gush. He is a

1006
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: writer and the executive producer for The Big Bang Theory,

1007
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: which just had its season finale. If you enjoy this conversation,

1008
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: we'll be sure and stick around for the podcast. Actually

1009
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: is where we keep the tape rolling and continue discussing

1010
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: all things television related. You can find that at iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, Bloomberg,

1011
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: wherever your final podcasts are sold. We love your comments,

1012
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: feedback and suggestions right to us at m IB podcast

1013
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net. Check out my daily column on

1014
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. You can follow me on Twitter at Riolts.

1015
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business on

1016
00:56:44,520 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Dave, Thank you so

1017
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: much for doing this. I say this every week, um,

1018
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: and it's always true, but it's especially true this week.

1019
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: I've really been looking forward to having this conversation. We've

1020
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: been trying to do this for a while and it

1021
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: just worked out great that we're recording this on a Monday,

1022
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: and the by the time this drops either the same

1023
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: day or the night before the finale um will have aired.

1024
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: So the one question I didn't get to that I

1025
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: have to ask you, what's next for Dave Gesh? What

1026
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: are you gonna do after this? I know you probably

1027
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: the assumption is, oh, he doesn't have to do anything again.

1028
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 1: This shows when it's indication forever. But you're young guy.

1029
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: You don't want to not work for the rest of

1030
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: your life, do you. I definitely want to keep working

1031
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: and paranoid not to work. Yeah, I know for sure,

1032
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: and um and I didn't create the show, so so

1033
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: if I greeted the show, I'd be in a floating

1034
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: on a hovercraft or something. But I want to take

1035
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: the lessons of the last twelve years and apply them

1036
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 1: on new shows. I think this multi cam world where

1037
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: you get the chance to rehearse for a couple of

1038
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: days and tweak the jokes and then do it in

1039
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: front of a live audience, is it's old It is

1040
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: old fashioned, But I the success of The Big Bang

1041
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: is testament that people like it, and even bringing back

1042
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: Full House on Netflix that has been a big hit

1043
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: for them. I would not have guessed that I was

1044
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: never a full House. Yeah, me neither. So I have

1045
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: to ask so you're a comedy writer, what comedy shows

1046
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: do you like to watch? So I don't like to

1047
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: watch much because it all feels like work. So when

1048
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm watching, you can't help critique and take notes or

1049
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: feel jealous and have low self esteem. That that's such

1050
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: a good joke that I wish I'd come up with it. So,

1051
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought thirty Rock was flawless, and I

1052
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: was obsessed with it. What they did in there, especially

1053
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: the first two seasons, it's amazing. I remember I had

1054
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: like the worst flu a couple of years ago, and

1055
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: having seen it all when it broadcast, I just binged

1056
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: all three seasons or the first whatever it was, and

1057
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: you could see when it starts to change, like at

1058
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: a certain point you could tell different writers. Well, but

1059
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 1: the first two seasons were so fresh and so hilarious.

1060
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: They're amazing. It's like there there are special seasons, right,

1061
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: It's like, what is that? The Office seasons two and three,

1062
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: And a lot of just has to do with kind

1063
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: of where those characters are and where they're going. Um,

1064
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: I have I have been able to watch and see

1065
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: how hard it is to make television that I have

1066
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: a lot of forgiveness for when people say like, oh,

1067
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: that show stinks and my don't you understand it's it's

1068
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: so hard that they got that on TV, Like do

1069
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: you know how many they got notes from the studio

1070
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: and the network on every outline and every rewrite and

1071
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: then they still had to get there and just Chuck

1072
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: Laurie's shows still get notes or can you guys do

1073
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: what you want? He has earned this uh place where

1074
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: he does not get notes, and that is an extraordinary

1075
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: luxury for us as writers to work in that world.

1076
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: So the story with Seinfeld and Larry Davis, no notes

1077
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: were not interested. Somehow they managed to carve that out.

1078
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: And obviously Curb doesn't seem to get a whole lot

1079
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: of notes because it's so improved. Do you what what

1080
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: shows do you find interesting that way? Do you watch

1081
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: either of those? Yeah? I think what they did on

1082
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: Curbed is is great and it's fascinating how they do that.

1083
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: It's improvised, but heavily it's really interesting. Ever read if

1084
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: you ever read one of those outlines where it's really dense, Um,

1085
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: the I have students who think, oh, well, since Curb

1086
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: is improvised, I'm gonna go do an improvised thing, and

1087
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 1: if you ever shoot an improvised thing, it's just a

1088
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: nightmare because they all spin off on all these prejudections.

1089
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: You have to be really focused on and that's annailing

1090
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: those story beats. And that's an amazing cast. It's incredible cast.

1091
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: It's really stop and think. Everybody on that show is

1092
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: a rock star. It's it's just astonished. Any other comedy

1093
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: shows that tickle your fancy. I think the Arrested Developments

1094
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: it was hilarious and um, I'm really excited about I'm

1095
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: not trying to just uh like promote the other Chuck

1096
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: lay world, but I think this new Bob Heart Savashola

1097
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: is a really cool show, which is about a Billy Gardell,

1098
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: who was Mike from Mike and Molly in the pilot,

1099
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: has a cardiac event and goes to the hospital and

1100
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: wakes up and there's a nurse and she's a Nigerian

1101
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: immigrant and he falls for her and it's such a simple,

1102
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: sweet story. But you you watch this pilot and you're like,

1103
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: I want to see more. I want to see these characters.

1104
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: I want to see what's going on. So I'm really

1105
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: excited for that. So I only have you for a

1106
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: finite amount of time. Let's jump to our favorite questions

1107
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: that we ask our guests, sort of our our speed round.

1108
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: Tell us the first car you ever own? Your making

1109
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: model in nine seventies six AMC White Hornet, which might

1110
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: P's got from the telephone company, and meaning it was

1111
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: a fleet car, a fleet car, and they got it

1112
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: for five dollars and they paid too much, They paid

1113
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: too much, and then that's a pos for sure. I

1114
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: hit a telephone pole because I uh it was Connecticut

1115
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: in the spring and too much sand from the snow,

1116
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: and and uh, I totaled the car because it would

1117
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: cost six to fix it, so cost more just a

1118
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: simple repair, clustmas the whole car. Um, what's the most

1119
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: important thing? People don't know about Dave Cash, Well, they

1120
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: know about the patent, that's really so that's the I

1121
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: was that's thing. But I tried to start a chocolate

1122
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: company in the first season of Big Bang Theory. At

1123
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: the same time, while Um Quantum Candy, it was gonna

1124
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: be called r X Chocolates, and the idea was it

1125
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: was gonna be apothecary bottles and it was going to

1126
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: have the amount recommended of dark chocolate every day and

1127
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: you pop it in your mouth. Okay, that's a good

1128
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: idea for Yeah, and what happened to that, Well, it

1129
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: turns out I'm much better at coming up with ideas

1130
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: i am at starting businesses. It's it's concept versus execution exactly.

1131
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: That's why I need a partner for that stuff. Um.

1132
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: Who were some of your early mentors who really gouted

1133
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: your career in television? Well, I mentioned Rob Long, Who's

1134
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: this guy who showed me that there was actually a path?

1135
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: And the other guy in that radio station was a

1136
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: teacher named Craig Thorne, and he has since passed away,

1137
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: and he just couldn't have more of an impact in

1138
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: terms of how to live your life, how to help people. Um,

1139
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 1: the power. He is one of the funniest guys in

1140
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 1: all the years in Hollywood, one of the funniest guys

1141
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: I've ever met, and just how to how to live

1142
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 1: your really how to live your life. And then working

1143
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: with Bonnie and Terry Turner on th Rock from the Sun,

1144
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: they were they created a family in their running staff

1145
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: and uh, I'll I remember working that first night that

1146
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: first year, maybe a Friday night, and they'd say, oh,

1147
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we have to work past dinner, and I

1148
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: would think to myself, great, I don't want to go home.

1149
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: This is so funny. So you're an investor and have

1150
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: been for a while. Who has influenced your approach to

1151
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: either investing um or thinking about markets? Well? I mentioned

1152
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: that Gordon Murray book, which had a really profound impact

1153
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: on me. And you know, I think the work of

1154
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: Gene Fama this. I wish everybody knew more broadly about

1155
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: this efficient market theory. If only he would win a

1156
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: Nobel Prize for that, people would find out, then it

1157
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:40,360
Speaker 1: would get out. I took I took macro econ with Nordhouse,

1158
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: and I took a winner. And then I took microth

1159
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: with Gianna Copolis. Who might win it some day? And

1160
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: didn't he win? Um? What did he win? The Bates?

1161
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: You want something big? And they they didn't talk about

1162
01:04:55,720 --> 01:04:57,919
Speaker 1: personal inventor. They should. I wish they would just say,

1163
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 1: be a long term investor, keep fees low, Uh, invest

1164
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: in a broad basket of stocks. Yeah, and and um,

1165
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 1: what are they gonna do for the next sixteen weeks

1166
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: of the class? Exactly right? And so it's so simple,

1167
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: But I feel like, um, there's just so much noise

1168
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: pushing the other way for sure. Tell us about your

1169
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: favorite books. What do you like to read? Comedy, non comedy, fiction, nonfiction.

1170
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 1: So John Irving had a giant impact on me growing up,

1171
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: and sider House Rules is still one of my favorite

1172
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: books of all time. And um, there's a then this

1173
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: guy Rob Long wrote a great book called Conversations with

1174
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: My Agent And so if you ever want to know,

1175
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,959
Speaker 1: like what Hollywood's like, that's a good little little book

1176
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: to follow. And um, tell us about a time you

1177
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: failed and what did you learn from the experience. I

1178
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: fail all the time. I mean, pitching is failure, right,

1179
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: You're pitching ideas, you're pitching things. Uh, there's so many

1180
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: pilots that I've written and sold that that never got made.

1181
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: But what I what I realized is that you really

1182
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: can't define failure for five or ten years because what

1183
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: comes from that As a result of not getting that thing?

1184
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: What else happens? And it's happened when I was dying

1185
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: to get on Spin City and I didn't get a meeting,

1186
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: and then I got the Third Rock from the Sun job,

1187
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: which was a dream job. I was so excited to

1188
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: try and get a job on thirty rock and I

1189
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: had a meeting and then I got canceled because they

1190
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: hired their friend, and then that led to big bank theory.

1191
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: So failure, it's easy to make failure one thing. But

1192
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: I think if if you're a long term investor, if

1193
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: you have a long time horizon, you you can redefine it.

1194
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: You have to look at it across the continuum. I guess,

1195
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: what do you do for fun outside of the writer's room?

1196
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 1: By the way, I imagine that the writer's room is

1197
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: just hilarious and I know it's worth but it must

1198
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: be just so much so entertaining. It really is so entertaining.

1199
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: And when you when people make fun of you on

1200
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: when they're professional comedy writers who do it, it's like, wow,

1201
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: that was so so good. Yeah yeah, you can't. You

1202
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:19,959
Speaker 1: can be frustrated or embarrassed. Whevery you're just like, wow,

1203
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: that's so good and so uh that is a it's

1204
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: a joy to hang out with those guys. It still

1205
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: works so stressful there, people get mad at each other,

1206
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: things happen. You still have to do your job. But

1207
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: but the way to have those funny people around you

1208
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: is amazing. And really the thing that's so fun for

1209
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 1: me to do is to teach, and I teach every

1210
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: fall at USC and this webisode's class and it's so

1211
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: fun to take these things that I've learned in my

1212
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 1: career and television but then apply them to this new

1213
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: medium and give say to these kids, you have all

1214
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: the power to make your own TV show, which I

1215
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: never had. You know, for years and years into my career,

1216
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: what are you most excited about within the entertainment industry?

1217
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: What you can do just with your phone is more

1218
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: than Martin Scorsese and Ted Turner could ever do in

1219
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. That that's amazing. Um. So, if a

1220
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 1: millennial or a college student came up to you and said,

1221
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: we're interested in a career in television or entertainment, what

1222
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: sort of advice would you give them if you're a writer,

1223
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: if they're a writer, I'd say there are three kinds

1224
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: of writing. There's writing on the page, there's writing when

1225
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: you're working with an actor and how you change it

1226
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: to fit that actor's voice. And then there's the writing

1227
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: you do when you edit. And you used to have

1228
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: to be a shot runner to do all those things,

1229
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,799
Speaker 1: but now you can do it. So how you write

1230
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 1: is different now, and you can post and get feedback

1231
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: and build an audience, make your webisode and have a

1232
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: discipline so that you're able to fit it into your schedule,

1233
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: so that you can say, one week in a month,

1234
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot and I'm going to make one minute episodes,

1235
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: but I'll make four of them and every Monday, just

1236
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: like Barry rid halts On, I'm gonna drop my I'm

1237
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 1: gonna drop my episodes. And by the time you've made

1238
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: fifty of them, you're gonna say I've learned so much.

1239
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm such a better writer. And number thirty six is

1240
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: the best thing I've ever done, and it's the one

1241
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 1: thing I want to show somebody. And our final question,

1242
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: what do you know about the worlds of producing and

1243
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: writing and comedy today that you wish you knew twenty

1244
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:24,360
Speaker 1: years ago when you were first getting started Almost twenty

1245
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: years ago. Uh, not more than years ago. I would

1246
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: say that it is the one of the lessons from

1247
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: Chuck Lory is he treats writing with a group of people.

1248
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: Someone described it like jazz, where you sit down and

1249
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: you don't know where it's going to go. There's a structure,

1250
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: you know in a jazz thing. You do eight bars,

1251
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: and I do eight bars, and we go around. There's

1252
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: a structure to the scene and a goal to the scene,

1253
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 1: but being open to that freedom. It's kind of being

1254
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: comfortable with uncertainty that we're talking about. The being being

1255
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 1: able to execute, but being able to be open to

1256
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: that stability of maybe not knowing where you're going to

1257
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: go and drawing the best out of people is absolutely

1258
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: magical and just have faith in that process quite quite fascinating.

1259
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Dave Gesh. He was the

1260
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: executive producer and writer for The Big Bang Theory as

1261
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: well as other shows. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll

1262
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 1: be sure and look up an Intra down an Inch

1263
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 1: on Apple, iTunes, Stitcher, Overcast, Bloomberg dot com wherever final

1264
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: podcasts are found, and you could see any of the

1265
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: other I don't know, let's call it two d and

1266
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: thirty eight episodes we've done previously. I'm just ballparking that. Um.

1267
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 1: We love your comments, feedback and suggestions right to us

1268
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net. I would

1269
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank the crack staff

1270
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 1: who helps put out this conversation each week. Medina Parwana

1271
01:10:55,960 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: is my producer slash audio engineer. Michael Boyle is our booker.

1272
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: Attica val Broun is our project manager. Michael Batnick is

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Speaker 1: my head of research. I'm Barry Hults. You've been listening

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Speaker 1: to Master's in Business from Bloomberg Radio