WEBVTT - Mike Garson 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.480 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftzett's podcast. My 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:17.040 guest today is pianist Mike Garson. Mike, who were just 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.799 involved with a video Heroes Ukraine, tell us about that. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:27.080 Well. I got a call from the director Rupert Winwright 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:35.680 and he had done this song of David Bowie's Heroes 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.760 with a rewrite of some of the lyrics, and then 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:46.239 he gathered these Ukrainian female talented women singers and guitarists 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:48.760 and at the very end he thought it might be 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.360 nice because I had the connection with David to maybe 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.080 aired piano and he'd been working on months and as 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:57.880 you know, it would have been nice if it came 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.480 out six or eight months ago. Climbing it is hard 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.000 for it now, but in any case, it was heart 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.520 felt by everyone who delivered it. And it's hard to 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.600 even watch the video. You know, musically it sounds cool, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.679 but it's just suffering, you know, a lot of pain. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:14.680 Can you tell us a little bit more about the 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.560 music and the visuals. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:23.600 You know, I like the way it's sounded, you know, 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.600 these young women were great, you know, and their fears. 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.160 It was loud and they found some motif for me 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:39.640 on the piano and I was just banging away. It 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:42.440 just kept going and it was a long video, but 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.920 it was a fun shoot that came over to my studio, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.400 which my big piano is downstairs here. I just have 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:54.760 like a mini piano, so that's here on this piano, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.120 and I could have you seen my fingers. Keep your 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.480 interested if I play for you. But to glee, yeah, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.600 this is a nice setup I have up here. It's 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.800 nice to acquiet and I'm upstairs and I'm in Calabasta, 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:08.160 so it's all working fine. 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.600 So is being associated with David Bowie all positive or 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.440 is it a little bit of an albatross too? 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:20.600 It's a double edged sword, you know. And one way 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.240 I owe my career to him because every rock star 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.200 that's called called me in the last thirty years with 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.440 fans of him and my playing on those early records 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:34.079 like Diamond Dorg's Young Americans, especially Aladdin Sane. But so 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.440 that's that's the plus. I've made a living instead of 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:41.440 where I was prior as a starving jazz musician, which 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.519 I still do, and that was good. The downside of 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:49.120 his everyone always wants to talk about Bowie and my 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.320 standard line is I played good before I got the gig, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.200 and he just happened to like my playing. So I 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.280 was the fucking whipped cream on the cake and let 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.800 him do what he want with what I'm mean. I 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.200 know nothing, Bob about rock and roll. I mean, you're 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.480 an almanac, and I didn't know who Bowie. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.200 Was what he called me, Bob. Okay, so what year 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:11.919 were you born in? 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.520 I was born in nineteen forty five, and I waited 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:16.960 just for the war to be done. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:22.600 Okay, so you're born in nineteen forty five, Elvis Presley, 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:26.080 you're aware when Elvis breaks, You're certainly aware when the 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.760 beatles break. You don't care, or you don't pay attention. 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.080 I didn't pay attention. I was practicing the piano, and 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.960 I was a little bit of a classical in jazz snob, 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:43.520 which life humbled me out. And when I recognized that 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.040 Joni Mitchell's and the Bob Dylan's and the Bowies of 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.600 the world, it was a little late because it had 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.080 to be fancy and virtuostic. And I grew up with 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:57.360 Vladimir Harwitz and Rubinstein and Glenn Gould and Bach and 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.800 Chopin and Liszt and Oscar in a Tatum and Bill Evans, 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.360 And where am I? I thought to myself, because I 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.000 go to this audition and jeans and a T shirt 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.200 on a Tuesday night at RCA in New York City 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.840 and they're decked out like they're going on stage in 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.200 Madison Square going. I was, where the fuck am I? 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:15.560 You know? 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.560 Okay, you're born in forty five? Yeah, what do your 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:25.320 parents do for a living? My dad was a liquor 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.120 salesman and he turned me on to jazz because he 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.000 sold liquor to the Half Note, which was on Spring 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.400 and Hudston and Manhattan Great Jazz Club. He brought me 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.760 down to see Lenny Tristano, who was a blind pianist 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.160 who had played with Charlie Parker introduced me to him. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.480 I audition on a break when the band was on 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:50.320 a break for Lenny. I played take five. I was 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.880 just a budding jazz pianist, and he accepted me as 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.479 a student. Studied with him three years and then the 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.920 rest is kind of history from that viewpoint, But it 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.479 was my dad was the culprit. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:01.039 My mom. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.040 Oh, medical school. I was a pre med student at 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.599 Brooklyn College. But I dissected the fucking pig and it 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.200 just was a mess. I made chopped liver and spare 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.440 ribs and I was done, and he'd given me an 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.599 f on the test. And I said, come to the 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:17.960 window here. I point to the music a building. I said, 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.680 if you give me a d I'll get the fuck 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.160 out of your face, you know, And that's what? 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:29.120 Okay? How many kids in the family. I have two daughters. No, no, no, no, no. 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:31.839 On your level, you have brothers or sisters. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:36.320 One sister she just passed a few months ago, and 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.120 she was ten years older than me. So she passed 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:47.479 and at eight eighty nine, I'll be out. I'll be 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.640 eighty in a few months. And she was ten years 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:50.200 older than me. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.240 Were you close to her? 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:55.799 She got out of the house when I was seven 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.359 years old. My mom screamed so much she had to 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.080 get out. And she got married and I haven't seen 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:01.559 her since. 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.120 And how did her life turn out? 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:11.000 She married a gentleman who also died four months ago. 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.320 My brother in law who I knew for seventy years, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.480 and he was in real estate syndication. He was a lawyer, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:19.920 but he owned two Park Avenue which shown thirty third 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.520 in Park. So they were fine. They were fine, and 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.839 then they moved out of New York. They got burnt 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.640 out and they went to Sedona and they owned Enchantment, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.080 which was a nice hotel there, and they did that, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.320 and then he got dementia, so we moved him out 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.280 there us here in Woodland Hills, and then my sister 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.160 stayed with him for thirteen years of dementia. Then and 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.920 then my sister got cancer a few months before he died, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.120 but she wouldn't leave till he died. He died, and 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.480 a month later she was gone. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:58.560 Wow, Okay, how many generations was your family in America? 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.840 My dad was. 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:02.840 From the Bronx, myms from the Bronx, and all the 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.000 grandparents were Russian somewhere probably Ukraine and some of those 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:08.000 places over there. 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.760 I had the idental situation Russia and Ukraine. So you 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.800 grow up exactly. 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:19.000 Where Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn, between Prosper Park and Nathan's 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.520 Coney Island Ocean Parkway. I still dream about those hot 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.320 dogs fifteen cents. The French fries were ten cents. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.080 You know what people don't remember about Coney Island was 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.559 the steeplechase, which was really something else. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.440 There you go, there, you go Where did you grow up? 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.080 I grew up in Connecticut, about fifty miles from New 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:39.640 York City. 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.280 Got it, got it, got it. But you got the 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:44.120 Coney Island though. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.520 Absolutely got on the steeple chase. They wouldn't have the 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.600 steeple chase today because there was no safety belt. But 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.880 those people don't know. You got on this horse and 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:55.440 it was on a rail, started inside, then went outside. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.400 It was kind of a race, and it was you 0:07:58.440 --> 0:07:59.960 know that in the roller coaster. You were like the 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.640 two famous rides in Cody Island. You got it? Okay, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:07.840 So you grew up? Is there a piano in the house. 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:12.200 There's a piano in the house. My mom played and 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.440 my sister played. Both played classical, and at seven I 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:21.040 started with a wonderful teacher and I never looked back. 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.520 So that's all I've ever done for I've been playing 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.760 professionally since I'm fourteen. But I started learning the instrument 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.560 at seven. Okay, so you were seven. What was the 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.080 motivation to finally take lessons? 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.839 Peer pressure? Drew and Brooklyn With a piano in the house, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.320 What the fuck are you gonna do? You know? 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:39.880 So? 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.160 I but then I started to like it. But we 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.200 had a little telephone in those days in a closet, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.360 and I was a little lazy at practicing. But I 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.480 loved it. But I didn't want to practice that much. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.400 So anytime I didn't practice, my mom would run into 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.920 the little closet to the telephone to call for faking it. 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:02.080 So she's gonna call the piano teacher and canceled the lessons. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:06.080 So I run to the piano and start playing. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:12.160 You know, Okay, you didn't like to practice, but were 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.079 You know a lot of people begin by playing by 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:19.839 ear and they leave out the reading and all the basics. 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.199 You had a lot of training. How did it work 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:22.559 for you? 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.599 I was had perfect pitch, so I could play by you. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:32.080 But I was playing classical. I didn't know what jazz was. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.679 I heard by the time I was nine, a little 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.520 about Elvis and those kind of songs from those days. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.439 But I was playing Mozart and Bach and Beethoven and 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.840 chopin I was. I was playing, you know, say, you 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:53.720 know that kind of stuff in Beetho, and I was 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.320 doing all that, and then at fourteen, I got the 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.280 jazz bug. What could I say? And that's that's when 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.959 I heard Dave and Errol Ganna, but I had now 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.640 pretty good chomps. And then I started doing gigs my 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.200 first kid at fourteen, I made five bucks playing at 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.520 sweet sixteen. I thought I was Elon musk By at 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:13.559 five dollars there. 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.720 Okay, let's go back though. What kind of kid were you? 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.720 Were you a good student, bad student? Were you a loaner? 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.839 Did you have friends? It's a great question. 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:28.480 I was a loner. I had a few friends, but 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.840 I was not understood. I hated school all through public 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.680 school or high school and college, and I just couldn't 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.800 wait to get out. And when I was in college, 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.040 even I was playing gigs and I was the only 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.160 one working and applying it, and they were talking like 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.160 what year was Beethoven born? 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:49.400 Do I give a fuck? You know? 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:50.360 I want to know? 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:51.920 Do I like this piece? 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.319 So I was always about the music, and I stuff 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.760 through learning. But all my great lessons were from great 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.359 piano teachers and Julia teacher, Leonard Tristano, Herbie Hancock's Torkorea, 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:10.400 Bill Evans. 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:11.360 I was blessed. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:13.440 I was in New York in the sixties. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:19.080 Okay, so you're playing the piano, your father takes you 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:24.000 to the jazz Club, the Sweet sixteen gigs after that. 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.360 The Sweet Thing actually was first. It was more like 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.240 a club debt. I played a lot of weddings in 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.800 ball Misfits, so it wasn't really jazz. It was like 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.240 the Shadowy a Smile or more, or some of the 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.559 songs that were the hips way you know, or rumbas 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:48.959 like best of mag Muco. It was all that and 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.640 I had to learn a song today at that time. 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.200 Within three years, I knew a thousand songs by heart. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:55.480 Chris. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.680 When you played these weddings at Ball Misterers, you weren't 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.240 allowed to read the music. 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.920 So it was always solo. You were never a member 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:03.679 of the group. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.120 Oh those weddings and Babs was I would play at 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.200 the beginning for the ceremonies. But we always had a band. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.040 I mean one was worse than the next, but it 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:13.679 was a band. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.000 But did you play in the band? Oh? Yeah, So 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.839 you were always like the special star coming out of 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.000 performing on your instrument. So how did you get all 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.360 these gigs in New York? 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.240 Did you ever hear of the Roseland? Yeah? 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:30.600 Sure? 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.320 Every Wednesday at two o'clock it turned into the local 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:39.120 eight or two musicians place where we all gathered, thousands 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.080 of musicians will being there and somebody be at the 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.400 microphone piano gig at the Concorde Hotel. I raised my hand, 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.760 Groszegger's Hotel, Bob, it's first Saturday night at Lenon's and 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.520 great the thirty bucks and we'd be all rushing for 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.600 the gigs and we need someone in the castle for 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.599 the summer fifteen bucks a week, my first game, you know. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.640 And then they would still little Sheep music for fifteen 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.480 cents and we'd learn the latest song. And it was 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.599 great training. But at a certain point I wanted to 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.920 kill myself because I didn't want to play music while 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.440 people ate, you know, I wanted them to hear me. 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.760 So I made a serious decision. 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:19.120 Like fuck that. 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.800 But I did a thousand gigs before I had the 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:22.680 balls to do that. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.520 Okay, little bit slower, you're playing the Sweet sixteen? Are 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.760 you getting the gigs by going to roseland or is 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.280 your now word of mouth? Little Mikey is the guy 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:34.200 you want? 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.520 He instead of Mikey likes it. And it was just 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.240 so simple, Oh he plays, you know, the girl in 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:42.080 school likes you. 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:42.679 He plays. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.319 Oh, my friend's having a sweet sixteen where you put 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.320 the band together. So I put a band together. It 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.120 was called the impromptu quartet, which is for telling, because 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.800 my whole life is improvisation. I came from the same 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.120 let's say, mindset as Keith Jarret is just the wider 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:03.240 viewpoint of music. But I always liked improvising. So that 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.679 was we had a nice quartet, and we did hundreds 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:07.800 of gigs. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.000 You know, hundreds, And what kind of money were you making? 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.960 The gigs would pay around sixty dollars seventy dollars for 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.560 an individual bomments for a wedding. When I was working 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.760 in the castles, it was a weekly pay. It started 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.720 at fifteen dollars at fifteen a week, and then it 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.800 went for forty dollars to eighty to ninety. The highest 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.840 was ever one hundred and seventy dollars. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.360 Well, if you're a teenager, that's kind of good money, right, 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.320 Oh yeah, yeah yeah. And what did you spend the 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:39.720 money on? 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.480 I don't know, I don't even remember. It wasn't that 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.680 much money, you know, probably candy or something, you know. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:51.680 I was I was a. 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.600 Little different as a musician in that, for one reason 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.880 or another, I didn't drink or use drugs. So I 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.160 never did my whole life. Maybe that's why I'm here 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.640 telling the story and feeling younger, almost turning eighty than 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.480 when I was twenty. I don't know that's the exact reason, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.920 because I'm not judgmental. I understand what the good and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.240 the band of drugs, but it just wasn't my cup 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.960 of tea sushi, Yes, a little addicted. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:27.640 What could I say? Okay, you're working in the cat Skills. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.600 I've been to the cat Skills. They made movies about it. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.680 Was that a good experience, you know, where you're running 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.120 with the other people working there and you're having sexual 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.680 adventures or was it like a drag just playing the piano. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.320 So the first three four years I loved it. I 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:52.200 loved it. You're a young kid fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.760 it just was wonderful. Plus I got a lot of experience. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.800 Every night you had a comedian, Jackie Mason, you had Heinz, 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.320 Heinz and Dad. I played for mel to May over 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.520 those five years. Every summer I played for almost eight 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.680 hundred seniors before I met David Bowie. So I had 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.040 a lot of experiences of company and I loved the company, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.400 but then the quality wasn't high enough for me. The 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.120 better I got, so I had to get out of 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:25.200 there sooner then later. 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.840 Okay, let's go back to the lessons. So you start 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.720 with the guy Lenny from the club. How long do 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:32.640 you study with him? 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:39.640 Let me Trestano was three years and I lived in Brooklyn. 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.800 He lived in Jamaica, Queens. It took me two hours 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.600 each way to get there. I had to take a 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:49.680 train to New York City, another train to Queens, and 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:51.360 then a bus, and then I had to walk a 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.640 half a mile for a ten minute lesson for eight dollars. 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.200 He tore eighty students in two days and the rest 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.200 of the week. He practic and he was blind, he 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.280 was dark, he was bitter, and he was a fucking genius. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:13.840 And he taught me three thousand left hand chord voicings 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.159 or harmonies or however you want to call it, just 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.880 in left hand over the first two years, three thousand. 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.560 I think I used thirty of them. You know, well, 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:27.359 you think of you think of imagine, it's four chords, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.920 you know, and he's teaching me these chords that sound 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.360 like this, I mean, just just an instant. It probably 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.840 worked for his head, and he had a whole mathematical 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.640 way of laying out. So I had to memorize all 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:45.960 these chords in all twelve keys. It was torture. If 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.760 I had to do it now, I'd call you up, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.040 asked you to shoot me. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.560 The lessons were only ten minutes long. Do you believe that? 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:55.200 Sometimes nine minutes? 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:58.600 Well, tell me a little bit about the lesson. Could 0:17:58.640 --> 0:17:59.639 sit down and then. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:05.320 What So it was four hours round trip in getting there, right, 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:09.359 And I'd sit down and let's say these chords that 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.800 I had to learn, Let's say I had learned at 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.800 home two hundred that week. When I'd come in, he'd say, 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.240 play it in one particular key, so that might be 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.840 twenty to thirty chords, So that took two minutes. Then 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:28.880 i'd have to do some scales stuff like this, then 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.639 do that, and then different fingering to get all sorts 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.160 of coordination and strength. So then I would do that. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.680 Then he'd have me listen to Leslie Young or Billy 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.960 Holiday or Bud Powell, and I have to sing and 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:49.119 imitate their phrasing. And then he would let me improvise 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.600 a little bit. And that was the lesson because ten minutes. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:56.480 Goes right right, and what would be the assignment for 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:57.440 the following week? 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.240 Now you did it in the key doing in the 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.919 key of D flat next week. It's not like the 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:05.399 guitar or the fucking capo. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.040 Right right right right right right right right right. Okay. 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.840 So I love your questions. Nobody asked me this shit. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.520 You know what I mean, kids, but you do what 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.160 I listen. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.520 I stayed out to a Jewish family with a piano 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.680 with the house. I started taking lessons at five. It's 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.760 like I never I hated to practice. So when did 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:28.320 it change? 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.640 It was piano was your first instrument. Oh yeah, then 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.000 I really love you keeping going? 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.040 Okay? So at what point did you get the bug 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.320 such that you wanted to practice. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.399 You're not going to believe this, but it was during 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:49.040 Vietnam and I was at Brooklyn College. I was still 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.280 only doing an hour or two a day, and I 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:56.080 was very good. But I wasn't great. But I was 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.600 very good, and my marks were terrible because as you 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.920 asked before, I was not a good student. They were 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.080 not paralleling my mind. 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:06.280 I needed. 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:14.480 Freedom, I needed rebellion, I needed innovatives, not fucking machines 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.680 and regurgitating Beethoven. There was a million people that could 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.000 do that and better than me, although I was pretty 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.920 good at it, but it's not me. I wanted express 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:31.399 what was in there, and so my marks went to 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:36.040 a d and if they dropped below C I got 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.440 a call to be drafted because it was during Vietnam, 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.159 and then the rubber or whatever when it hits the ground, 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.439 I said, oh fuck, I'm not going to go shoot people. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.080 So what happened was I found out if I put 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.760 an extra year of DOS in three years instead of 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.800 two and I passed the test, I could be in 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:05.959 the band. So I auditioned, I got one hundred on 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:11.280 the test, and I joined the band. So I knew 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.560 I'd have to pay some serious dues for the first 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.800 eight week school based of training. Then the next three 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:21.199 years I'm playing the fucking Glockaspiel down Fifth Avenue and 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.879 marching and you know, then we played for the Generals. 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.840 But basically I was in the fort I was stationed 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.760 in Staten Island. I told everybody I was overseas from 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.040 Brooklyn over the Arizona Bridge, and I would practice eight 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.240 hours a day because there was nothing to do we 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.800 do a parade on Fifth Avenue every three months, and 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.480 we had a big band, so we practiced there and 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.600 all the generals I would play for their parties, so 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.560 I made extra money. They paid for two piano lesters. 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.480 I go into the city. After basic training. I was 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:58.960 living home and eating a steak in the morning the 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:00.960 sixth of the morning going to the fort and I 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.040 was home by five o'clock. And I did all the 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.520 shopping and the PX so everything was one third the price. 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.960 And I did that for those three years, and that's 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:11.840 when I got good. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:12.840 I ended up. 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.639 There was a drummer in the band who ended up 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.639 with Woody Herman and Man at Ferguson. There was a 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.399 trumpet player ended up in Bloodswort and Tears. So we 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.040 had a great band. And all I did is go 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.280 every morning and practice. So it was like that pressure 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.960 was needed because I didn't have that discipline. I'm kind 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:40.040 of lazy and intuitive and I play from my heart. 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.119 But there I had to do hard work and I 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:43.520 did it. 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:48.520 Okay, the Army is after you. Brooklyn College right in 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.960 the middle. After I finished, I went back and finished 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.080 Brooklyn College. Okay, so you figure you'll join, So you 0:22:55.160 --> 0:23:01.359 won't be drafted in extent to Vietnam. I won that game. Okay, 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:09.440 So what's it like being a Jewish guy in the army? Okay? 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.600 I was not going to share this story, but I 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.679 think it's an important story. I was in basic training 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:19.440 in Fort Dixon, New Jersey, and I was the only 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:27.440 Jewish fella there, and I felt very isolated, and I 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:33.600 had a German sergeant. I was not the most athletic person. 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:39.880 In the world. And when you learn how to take a. 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:43.240 Bayonet and you're supposed to stab it into the dummies, right, 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.360 and you're supposed to do it like you're going to 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:51.160 kill somebody. Everybody was stabbing it hard. And I took 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.639 the knife and I was just like touching it because 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.720 I was picturing I can't hurt another human being. And 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:03.480 all of a sudden, this German sergeant said, in front 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:07.600 of the whole barracks, if you're an example of a Jew, 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:15.720 it's no wonder what Hitler did to those people. My 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:20.480 body's still shivering saying it and thinking, shouldn't have I 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:22.760 done something about that? What could have I done that? 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.920 I mean, do I report it? I mean I still 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:29.400 play it in my head that was a pretty big 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:34.320 chump symptism. It lasted me for a long time. You know, 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:37.439 I got a free pass when I started playing music. 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.520 Nobody cared if I was white, black, green, Italian. You 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.960 know you're Jewish, Catholic. You know it was different, Okay. 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:48.399 You know, forgetting a pianist, a lot of people said, oh, 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:50.840 I'm going to send my kid to the army for discipline. 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.199 To set them straight. Was there any lesson that you 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:56.000 learned in the army that was good. 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:01.360 I learned how to practice. I shine my shoes pretty good. 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.880 I learned that appeal potatoes. But really what I did 0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.600 and I could run a mile, which now I barely 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:10.280 could get up to the studio, you know, from the downstairs. 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:13.760 But I mean basically, what I learned is to practice 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:17.920 the piano and get good. Because eight hours a day 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:20.840 for three years, even if I had no talent, at 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:25.280 least you could mechanically play. Might not have gotten good gigs. 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:28.439 Yeah. Were you practicing eight hours because you were personally 0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:31.280 inspired at or had nothing better to do, or were 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:33.800 the generals saying, hey, Mike, you know you gotta get better. 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:39.520 No. Within weeks, I fell in love with it, and 0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:40.560 I saw a progress. 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.720 Okay, let's go back. How does it end with Lenny? 0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:46.040 And who's your next teacher? 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:52.000 So simultaneously to Lenny Trestado, there was a gentleman named 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:56.520 hal overton O ve Rtn how twar did Julia? But 0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:00.320 he also was a great jazz player, and he stard 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:03.520 at the piano on twenty third Street and sixth Avenue. 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:06.359 The cigarette would be hanging out of his mouth and 0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.440 he loved to bebop guys and Butt Powell. And he 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:14.480 did the Felonious Monk big band arrangements for a jazz 0:26:14.520 --> 0:26:18.320 album at town Hall that came out around nineteen sixty three. 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:22.440 So he had a treasure chest of Monk song Selonious Monk, 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:25.359 and none of them were available at that time, and 0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.280 he would teach me these. It was the most fantastic 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:32.920 experience because he knew how to teach properly, and he 0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:37.520 prepared me for life for music for gigs up until 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:40.919 but all with jazz. And one day I came in 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:45.919 and I was mixing classical in jazz. So there's a 0:26:46.080 --> 0:26:53.159 chopin song that goes it's full of revolutionary town and 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:56.080 it's a crazy left tandpo so I took the Gershwin 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:57.960 song Summertime, and I went. 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:03.960 Something like that. 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.679 I remember the left hand point. So he says to me, 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.200 that's the colectic. And the way he said it, Bob, 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:15.080 it was like I had leprosy and I was just 0:27:15.359 --> 0:27:18.840 hearing all my influences and they started to come out. 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.840 I might sit there and play a jazz thing for him, 0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:29.119 but then I might be going then and then that 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.600 sounds mixed the classical in jazz, and then I might 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:44.080 be starting like a classical thing. Didn't like it because 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:45.920 he only liked one of the straight be box that 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:52.160 sounded like this, and I was much more of a penis. 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.920 I wanted to do other things. I wanted to play 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:59.280 two hands like he stole me like that, and I 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:07.520 wanted to be to play like Arldonna that kind of 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:10.679 a thing, and he wanted to keep me in a 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:11.399 small box. 0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:13.119 I mean, you've heard that story before. 0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:18.240 And I had a Julia teacher, just dropping back to 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:21.800 when I was thirteen, and he showed me some mozart, 0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:28.160 that beautiful sonata, and I came in the next week 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:28.920 and I went. 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:37.280 And he said, you. 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:44.040 Have delusion as a grandeur. I should have said, I 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:47.760 am possibly a budding composer and improviser. But I got 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:52.000 intimidated and kind of stepped me back twenty or thirty years. 0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:56.800 But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Okay, how 0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.280 did you last with that guy? How long? 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:05.000 That was about a year? And how Overton? That is 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:08.080 the Julian teacher, how Overton jumping? A few years later, 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.520 when studying with Lennyd Tristano, that was two years. Tony 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.720 Williams Miles Davis, drummer, came for a lesson right after me. 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:18.440 He was seventeen, you know, and so he was studying 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:20.440 composition even though he was a great drummer. So I 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:22.960 was in good company. And I got to play with 0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.560 Felonious Monk rhythm section at the New School in New York. 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.840 So it was great, great training. And then there were 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:34.840 these miscellaneous teachers who would pop up, like Herbie Hancock 0:29:34.880 --> 0:29:38.320 came up to visit the drummer I was with in 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:41.400 the Catskills, and he stat in and played old stand 0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:51.880 that Don't Blame Me, and it just said, oh my god, 0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:54.160 this guy couldn't really play. So I asked him for 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:56.800 some piano lessons and he gave me three lessons but 0:29:56.920 --> 0:30:00.520 life changing. And then Bill Evans, who was pretty serious 0:30:00.520 --> 0:30:02.880 heroin addict. I went to see him at the Village 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:05.600 Vanguard about twenty times. One time I got the enough 0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:07.680 balls and I said to them Bill could have a lesson. 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:11.760 He said, come up to my house and he spends 0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:17.360 six hours with me. Didn't charge me a penny. 0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:26.520 Okay, to the degree you can speak it in terms 0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:29.920 of layman can understand what did Herbie and what did 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:31.400 Bill Evans teach you? 0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:37.360 Someone asked me that today in some interview, and I 0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:40.920 only remember the transmission and the energy from Bill Evans. Oh, 0:30:41.040 --> 0:30:43.960 it's like you're being with an idol, the way you 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:46.520 know people love Bowie or a Dylan, you know, a 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.920 Paul or John you know. I was that way to him. 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:53.320 He showed me what's called some jazz voice ss, like 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:56.120 maybe you played this way. You want to see the piano? 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:57.480 Would that help you? No? 0:30:57.480 --> 0:30:59.360 No, no, So. 0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:08.960 So Lendy Bernstein tune and instead of playing a simple 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:14.000 triad like CEG maybe it's like a stem major seven so, 0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:16.840 but just voice it, or you spread out the notes 0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:29.120 like BCE and then you play it. So I learned 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:32.040 that from him. From Herbie Hancock he taught me what's 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:35.960 called a diminished scale. Because I knew major scales, I 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:40.120 knew minor scales, he taught me a diminish scale, which 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.440 sounds like this. It's a different scale. Instead of seven notes, 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.920 is eight notes. And it's a half step whole step, 0:31:46.960 --> 0:31:50.160 half step, whole step. It's symmetrical. So if you're playing 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:52.720 jazz and I'm playing a song and I'm playing a 0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:54.800 ste steven chord in the left hand, I could play 0:31:54.800 --> 0:32:01.880 a seed a diminished scale over it. So you build 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:05.480 up a vocabulary. It's like learning English or Chinese or whatever. 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:10.920 Okay, you're in the army that you finish your term, 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.480 what's the vision? How do you decide to go back 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:15.960 to Brooklyn College. 0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:19.280 I only had a few months left, and I got 0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:24.200 a call to audition for Buddy Rich. So I figured 0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:26.480 I'll drop out of college if I could work with Buddies. 0:32:26.480 --> 0:32:29.640 So I went to see his band and they played 0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:33.480 a song. They sounded fantastic. He sounded fantastic on drums, 0:32:33.880 --> 0:32:36.320 and then he stood up after the song and screamed 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:44.200 at the saxophone player, just like bullying, an invalidation beyond, 0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:49.200 and I thought, oh oh, So then I stopped there, 0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:51.920 and then I heard another song, and then he stood 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:55.560 up and screamed at the trumpet player, at which point 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:57.880 I went to my car and said, fuck him. I'm 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.760 going home finishing college, because if I'm that abuse, I 0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:02.240 may as well go home to my house. 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:08.760 Okay, but let's go back before that. You finished with 0:33:08.840 --> 0:33:15.480 the Army. Did you always plan to go back to college. Yeah, 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:19.160 and I just got the bachelor degree. I didn't want 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:23.120 to go for my masters. I put in three and 0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:25.600 a half years, so I may as well knock it off. 0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.880 And I knocked it off. I graduated maybe a little 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.840 early in January, and then I was right into the 0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:37.400 music world. Okay, your music education at Brooklyn College? Was 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:38.520 that worth something? 0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:43.880 You know? At the time, I thought not. When I 0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:47.960 look back there, I'm sort of a sponge and if 0:33:47.960 --> 0:33:51.960 there's something valuable, I have pretty distant discernment and differentiation. 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.320 I learned a few things, but could have I spent 0:33:56.160 --> 0:33:59.560 better time. Yes, but you're in a Jewish middle class family. 0:33:59.600 --> 0:34:02.760 You finishing up? Oh yeah, you know that. Boy, you 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.400 have to have a backup plan. Well, I got the degree. 0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:07.520 My mind who was in education? I swear to you, 0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:10.840 I never went into the school system except as masterclasses 0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:13.319 and that kind of thing, because I didn't want to 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.160 be trapped in that world. It was bad enough playing 0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:21.200 weddings and bomsters. I knew as early as very young 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:24.000 that I had my own voice, my style. I knew 0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.440 I wanted to say something. But I wasn't a singer 0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.279 and I wasn't a performer. But I could play the 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:31.200 shit out of the piano. 0:34:31.440 --> 0:34:35.400 You know. So that's the story. Okay, so you graduate, 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:36.480 what's the next step. 0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:43.680 I graduated. I got married Susan Uh and I met 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:49.040 in the Catskills. She was fourteen. I was sixteen, and 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:57.720 I was playing Rhapsody in Blue. You know that one. 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.239 I was playing raps in Blue. She comes from a 0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:04.600 little bungalow colony. Some girls in a bungalow colony went 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:06.839 to my hospital. Let's go see the band over there 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:09.319 at Cherry Hullo Hotel. I'm making forty dollars a week 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:13.200 in the dumb There's fucking bats flying around in this room. 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:16.440 It wasn't like a gorgeous room. It was horrible. And 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.640 a lot of folks would go up there like dirty dancing, 0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:23.040 that kind of a thing, like the movie and she 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:27.120 comes with these friends and I'm playing Rhapsody in Blue 0:35:27.200 --> 0:35:29.880 and a little old lady taps her on the shoulder 0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:33.560 and says, you're gonna marry him. Six years later, we 0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:36.920 got married. Last week we celebrated fifty seven years. Go 0:35:36.960 --> 0:35:39.839 figure it, because fifty seven days is long in la 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:40.680 and you know that. 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.120 Okay, what happens for the time she hears you play 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:47.279 Rhapsody in Blue to the time you get married. Was 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:50.799 it a continuous connection or she go back to high 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:53.319 school and you ran into her again? How did this 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.839 relationship play out? We were together the whole six years 0:35:56.880 --> 0:35:57.800 before we got married. 0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:01.200 When I was in the army, I only saw her 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:04.239 right the times that I get some time off, and 0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:06.799 she come to see me at four Dicks, and when 0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:09.919 I was a basic training she actually walked right by 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.399 me because they shaved my head when at that time 0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:14.840 I had a lot of here and she couldn't believe 0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:18.560 what she saw. She actually passed by me, says this 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:22.120 is your future husband, you know. So anyway, that's that's 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:27.400 what happened. Then, Okay, you're a musician. Hey, she's young, 0:36:28.200 --> 0:36:30.879 you're a musician. What did her parents say about this? 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:31.280 Wedding. 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:33.759 They loved me because they thought I was gonna be 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:43.640 a doctor. Yes, yes, yes, okay, so Dad, you got 0:36:43.680 --> 0:36:46.680 you gotta hear this. Bob her dad owned a trucking 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:50.680 company in Manhattan. The mafia was on him every day 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:54.399 with guns, payoffs. He was a tough guy. Grew up 0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:59.400 with no money with three brothers in Manhattan eating bread 0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.680 stiffs is all they got, sharing a room that was 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:06.280 thirty feet you know. And he made it. All brothers, 0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:08.600 they all made it. He owned the trucking company. 0:37:08.600 --> 0:37:09.040 He made it. 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.640 He worked six days a week and the seventh day 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:14.319 he was in the garage. All he wanted to do 0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.839 was give me the trucking company and come to work 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.640 with him. I would have been dead, like fifty years ago. 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:25.520 I said, Dad, I can't do that. He said, make 0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:28.520 the music a hobby. I said, I'm serious about that. 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:32.000 I had a jazz trio. We already sounded good playing 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.000 local gigs in New York. So we go to a 0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:37.839 wedding one day, some family member and as an eight 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:42.680 piece band, but kind of horrible, like a bomb. It's 0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:45.399 for band, wedding band. And he said, hey, Michael, now 0:37:45.520 --> 0:37:49.480 that's the band. Because it was eight pieces and I 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:54.080 had a trio. He didn't couldn't differentiate quality from quantity, 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:58.480 and so he finally stopped bothering about the trucking business. 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:01.080 When I turned forty. He said, Okay, Mike, I know 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:03.359 what we're gonna do. I'm going to put you through 0:38:03.360 --> 0:38:06.040 medical school and by fifty you'll be a doctor. So 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:11.640 he never gave it up, but so so he look 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:13.240 it was his daughter. He stare. 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:15.080 It was an up and down life. 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:18.520 I was getting five dollars a night on jazz gigs 0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:24.160 and all this before Bowie and then after David. There 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:27.160 were times I wasn't working with David and then he'd 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:29.440 come to the house and I wasn't working it, and 0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.200 then Susan would say, well he's practicing. What is he 0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:35.920 practicing for he's in the house. Well, he's writing a piece, 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:40.400 and I don't understand, you know. So he's looking around 0:38:40.480 --> 0:38:43.840 and trying to snoop around and see my royalty checks. 0:38:44.600 --> 0:38:47.439 So Susan was hiding them. So I said, you got 0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:50.919 to put these checks out to shut them up. So 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:52.840 she didn't put out the two stend ones and the 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:55.160 thirty sen ones from being She put out a few 0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:57.719 that were five thousand tenth outs and then he was 0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:00.200 quiet after that. But by that time I was like 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:02.120 fifty five years old. 0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:06.839 Okay, you graduate from college, you get married, what are 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:12.640 the next steps in your musical career. I worked. 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:18.759 A lot of miscellaneous gigs, backing up different people like 0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:22.319 Martha Reeves from Author and their Van dellaz I did 0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:26.239 music director at Madison Square Garden with them. There was 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:30.080 a very famous jazz big band called mel Lewis Thad 0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:33.000 Jones Big Band. They played every Monday night at the 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:35.880 Village Vanguard. I did a few gigs with them. I 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:39.680 worked with the jazz student Nancy Wilson with them. She 0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:43.680 was fantastic and I was getting calls. While I was 0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:47.480 doing that, I was also teaching, because I love teaching. 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:51.360 I started teaching nineteen sixty three and I've had only 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:53.640 private one on ones now it's a lot of it 0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:56.640 is zoom all around the world, but about ten thousand 0:39:56.760 --> 0:40:00.880 students since over the last sixty two years. So I 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:05.480 made extra money teaching and then I pick up miscellaneous gigs. 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:10.080 And then one fine day, someone named David Bowie called 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:12.000 to I didn't know who he was, and the rest 0:40:12.040 --> 0:40:13.040 of his history. 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:18.200 Okay, So when do you graduate from college? How old 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:23.800 are you after the all main graduated was probably about 0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:30.480 twenty okay, so we're in the late sixties. First, let's 0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:36.560 talk about jazz. The heyday of jazz was the thirties 0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:41.640 and forties. Okay, So are you aware that somehow your 0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.920 passion is a little lot of time or do you 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:49.239 think jazz is forever? What was going through your head? 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:53.200 I had known business mind. I only knew the music, 0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:58.440 and somehow I got by because I was teaching. If 0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.640 I didn't do some teaching, I couldn't have survived because 0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:04.319 a five dollar jazz gig going to it. In fact, 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:07.080 the way I got the bowie gig, I was practicing, 0:41:07.160 --> 0:41:10.520 as I told you, eight hours a day. And then 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:14.160 I get on this jazz gig with Dave Leebman, who 0:41:14.200 --> 0:41:15.920 I went to high school, was a sax player, with 0:41:15.960 --> 0:41:19.760 Miles Davis and other great musicians were in a club. 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:22.120 I waited my whole life to get to this jazz gig. 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.200 Five people in the club five bucks. So I said 0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:28.040 to myself, this is not going to work. The rent 0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:30.000 was one hundred and fifty dollars. I'd have to do 0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:32.160 thirty of those gigs a month and then I still 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:35.680 don't pay for the phone and gas. So I said, 0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.239 you gotta watch what you wish for, and I said, 0:41:38.280 --> 0:41:40.080 I think I better go out with a rock band. 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:47.440 Two days later David Cole, Okay, before we get to David. Yeah, 0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:51.600 there's things like take five that anybody can understand. There 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.000 are a lot of people say jazz I don't get it. 0:41:55.960 --> 0:42:01.000 Explain it to those people. They're partially right because it's 0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:04.799 heady and it's its own little cult, you know, and 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:08.080 we're better than them because they're playing just three chords 0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:15.759 and look what we're doing, you know, well no one 0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:17.520 and they don't get it, you know, they just want 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:18.240 a little groove. 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:21.760 They just want to feel. 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:26.320 I could do both, but I naturally was a songwriter 0:42:26.400 --> 0:42:29.200 at fourteen, but it was so simple for me that 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:31.719 I made a silly mistake and I said, I think 0:42:31.760 --> 0:42:36.799 I don't understand the code of jazz ceode. I think 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:38.560 I'm going to figure it out. And I went on 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:43.279 this Cecuitish trip for a lot of years and it 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:48.800 ultimately helped me, but it certainly didn't financially or commercially, because, 0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:52.200 like you said, nobody understood the music. I mean, Miles 0:42:52.239 --> 0:42:54.800 Davis is great culture and is great, you know, or 0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:59.080 Tata Muscapediston, but they are few and far between. Stan 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:01.200 gets out a hit for the Boston over you know 0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:04.360 erl Gone, who was a bit of a showman. You know, 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:08.360 you had people like Victor Borgier who used comedy and classical. 0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:13.000 I didn't think like my father in law thought, you 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:15.440 need to work and have a gig and make some money. 0:43:15.960 --> 0:43:16.680 I got by. 0:43:17.239 --> 0:43:21.160 I was somewhat blessed in a way, and I had talent, 0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:24.200 and I was willing to do a wedding involvement. So 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:27.440 I would do five on the weekend Friday night, Saturday afternoon, 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.440 Saturday night, Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and then I wouldn't 0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:33.440 work all week, and I teach on Tuesday, but not 0:43:33.600 --> 0:43:36.239 like ten minutes like Lennard Tristana, an hour or less 0:43:36.239 --> 0:43:38.920 than I would give. And I teach eight ten students 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:42.600 and then have enough money to just get by and survive. 0:43:43.640 --> 0:43:48.320 And that was it. Okay. Nineteen seventy Miles goes electric 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:53.080 in a silent way and bitches brew Joe Zonal's in 0:43:53.160 --> 0:43:57.759 the band, then informs weather report. Is this something you 0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:59.800 like or is it too far from tradition. 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:04.560 I liked it, but I was a little more earlier miles. 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:09.040 But I did end up working with Stanley Clark and 0:44:09.080 --> 0:44:11.560 played fusion, but that was in seventy eight, and I 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:15.160 did that kind of music. So the thing with me is, 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:18.400 I don't see divisions in music. I think I have 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:22.400 the same mindset as Duke Ellington. He said, this is 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.040 he the good music or bad music. So if it's 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:28.799 a great rock song, I will gravitate to it, and 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.440 if it's a great jazz song, I'll gravitate. It's not 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.200 that all jazz, good old rock, or all poper or 0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:38.840 all fusion, so you know, and art is and opinion. 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:42.960 So I went to things that resonated with me. But 0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:46.040 I never was one of these people. I only liked rock, 0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:48.600 or I only like Popper, I only liked Beboper, only 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:52.160 liked fusion. I liked what I liked and just because 0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:56.680 it's music, and it's certainly better than war, certainly better 0:44:56.760 --> 0:45:00.279 than politics. It's like maybe the only same thing left 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:03.319 on the planet. So I'm happy that I'm doing it. 0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:07.239 Mind you, if I was a pre med student, you know, 0:45:07.480 --> 0:45:10.600 you can help people that way. But it wasn't my calling, 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:13.680 and when I was twelve, I wanted to be a rabbi, 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:19.680 but I didn't like the separation. I just wanted to 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.759 be a person of the world, and music was the 0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:24.319 closest I could get to it. 0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:25.120 Not that it was. 0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:27.520 I hate the music business, don't get me wrong, but 0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:28.520 I love the music. 0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:40.880 So what's the status of jazz today. 0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:44.880 There are some great talent out there, that's all I know. 0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:48.719 I know nothing about the specifics in the business. There's 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:52.399 some great piadists like Brad maldu who's really really good, 0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:55.840 and he does some rock things and interpretations of a 0:45:55.880 --> 0:45:59.520 lot of Beatles, and he did a boie soul, So 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:01.359 there's some big talent out there. 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:03.000 I don't know. 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:06.080 I don't think jazz has ever been close to mainstream. 0:46:06.120 --> 0:46:09.480 When I grew up, it was always rock was the mainstream. 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.279 Rock is small now it's hip hop. So you know, 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:16.759 who knows I'm the wrong person to ask that. You 0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:19.560 probably know better than me. It doesn't look that good 0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:22.160 to me. From the friends I have that are starting 0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:25.160 that I could only base it on. Oh, I better 0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:27.040 give this guy fifty bucks. He's fucked. 0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:32.080 Okay, let's go back to this transitional moment. How long 0:46:32.200 --> 0:46:37.640 after you graduate from college do you audition for Buwie? 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:45.040 About seven years and before you have that break in 0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:48.640 your mind you say I'm gonna be an itinerant musician 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:50.279 and all work out in the end, or in the 0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:51.960 back of your mind you say, you know I'm gonna 0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:54.600 have a big break. People are gonna know who I am. 0:46:55.080 --> 0:46:58.279 I never thought of break or fame or anything. You know, 0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:01.640 Fame is probably the most unstatem drug there is. It 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:07.360 never impressed me. I just wanted to play the piano. Okay, 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:11.400 So how do you get the call from Bowie? Do 0:47:11.480 --> 0:47:12.880 you ever hear of Anette Peacock? 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:15.160 Sure? Yeah. 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:17.839 I had played on one of her albums, a very 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:20.080 avant gard and there was a song she could call 0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:23.040 on the one and the piano solo was a little 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:24.200 similar to Aladin say. 0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:25.759 It was out there and she was. 0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:28.560 An avant garde singer. She would sing through the move 0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:31.560 through the microphone, the mini move back in the not 0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:34.920 even the mini one, the big one. And I played 0:47:34.960 --> 0:47:39.160 on her album. Bowie comes to do the first American 0:47:41.640 --> 0:47:45.840 Ziggy Startles tour. He doesn't bring a piano player. Rick Weightman, 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:49.080 who'd done Hunky during those things great pianists he was 0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:51.680 doing sessions or I don't know if yes was formed 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:54.319 or I don't know the sequence, but he steadily couldn't come. 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:56.759 So he comes with just Mick Ronson and Woody and 0:47:56.800 --> 0:47:59.080 Trevors the Spiders from All but he needs a piano. 0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:06.120 He's doing life. How do you do it without a piano? 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:06.840 Or changes? 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:12.279 You need a piano, you know. So he being very 0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:17.920 tuned into avant garde musicians, he knew a net and 0:48:17.960 --> 0:48:19.800 he was a fan of her music. And so is 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:24.279 Mick Ronson to lead guitarist in the band. And he 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:26.840 goes to visit her and he said, would you like 0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:28.960 to be in my band? She said, Now, I have 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:32.560 my own career. But Mike Garson, he just played on 0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:35.440 my album. He said, you're in. So I got hired 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:41.239 for eight weeks only and I then ended up I 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:44.680 think the longest standing musician and probably did four hundred 0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:47.080 shows with him in twenty albums and things are still 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:47.600 coming out. 0:48:48.040 --> 0:48:53.440 Okay, do you audition? My audition for. 0:48:53.440 --> 0:49:08.719 Seven seconds and you're gonna hear it right now. Nick 0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:10.920 Ronson said, you got the game. I said, Mick, I 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:13.400 didn't start the play. Yet as he was sitting at 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.200 the piano, he said, I know, I played piano two. 0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:19.799 It's the gig. You got it, And David was in 0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:24.920 the control room about thirty feet away. That was it, okay. 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:30.000 I saw that tour in Boston at the Music Hall. 0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:32.680 I did not know who you were at that point 0:49:32.719 --> 0:49:37.839 in time, but that album was gigantic in England and 0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:41.240 it was just the beginning of the success of Bowie 0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:44.400 in the US. What was it like being on the 0:49:44.480 --> 0:49:49.920 road for those eight weeks. It was a shock, you know, 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:53.480 at the jazz clubs and having to go on a 0:49:53.520 --> 0:49:57.640 back entrance. I was treated like the way black musicians 0:49:57.640 --> 0:49:59.040 were treated in the forties. 0:49:59.080 --> 0:49:59.239 You know. 0:49:59.280 --> 0:50:02.239 It was a and all of a sudden with the 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:05.160 Plaza Hotel and we're at the Beverly Hills Hotel here, 0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:07.800 not even in the hotel, in the bungalows and Elton 0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:10.359 John's on the left and Perry Como's on the right, 0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:15.759 and we're eating eighty dollars meals and they're paying for everything. 0:50:15.880 --> 0:50:19.120 And I think we're the ones responsible for everybody having 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:22.880 to leave their credit card now because then incidentals were 0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:27.399 all covered by RCA. I remember the band the tech 0:50:27.400 --> 0:50:30.920 guys bringing in like ten cases of champagne and just 0:50:30.960 --> 0:50:33.640 putting on the bill, and the band buying cameras and 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:37.480 for a coach. So you know, it was those days 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:44.319 and it was shocking. But again the music was fascinating 0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:46.640 because they were doing about twenty two storms on the 0:50:46.760 --> 0:50:50.839 Ziggi tour, and some storms don't need piano at all, 0:50:50.920 --> 0:50:53.200 like hang on to yourself and this and that. So 0:50:54.200 --> 0:50:58.560 I would sneak out into the audience and watch David, 0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:03.120 and I thought to myself, this guy's a fucking genius. 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:05.640 I like this guy. 0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:07.960 I want to stay longer than eight weeks. He's the 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:12.920 Miles Davis, a rock, and he's changing. He's a chameleon. 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.719 He paralleled my mind because that's what I did. I 0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:19.479 changed one hundred times. It's just that it didn't matter 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:22.440 because I was doing the jazz of classical. Who gives 0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:27.400 a fuck? But he was doing it brilliantly in the 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:29.640 commercial of the pop world, and to his credit, he 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:32.800 was able to still stick with his integrity except for 0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:35.319 the eighties, when he told me he felt that he 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:40.520 lost it to record companies and the pressure got to him. 0:51:40.560 --> 0:51:43.880 Well, since we're there, you're talking about when he does 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:48.200 the dance records and that type of stuff. Yes, he 0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:51.160 feels felt like he sold out. I mean he. 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:53.920 Felt like doing Let's dance and that felt good. But 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.560 then they like that, let's milk that shit. And that's 0:51:57.160 --> 0:52:01.000 exactly when the integrity gets fucked. And as I like 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:07.680 to say, you compromise your integrity, your improvised drops. 0:52:10.080 --> 0:52:15.359 Okay, so you're in the band. You know there are 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:18.479 people who play in a band and essentially never talk 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.600 to the leader of the band. So to what degree 0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:24.680 did you interact with the other three and Bowie and 0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:26.359 did they treat you as a member of the band 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:28.759 or oh, this guy just plays piano on some of 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:29.320 the songs. 0:52:30.360 --> 0:52:34.000 Initially the Spiders were a little reluctant, except for Mick 0:52:34.080 --> 0:52:36.360 Ronson because he loved me. And then I ended up 0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:39.840 playing on his two solo albums, Slaughter on Tenth Avenue 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:44.040 and played Home or but I became friends with all 0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:46.560 of them. But to take a few weeks because what 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:49.800 does that sound? One of those jam squads just supposed 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:58.640 to be playing and then they're hearing Bowie's eating it 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:02.560 up because we lost the beat. It was just enhancing 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:06.400 the harmonic vocabulary. Which has to do with chords, you know, 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:16.439 and David loved it. They accepted me, and I made 0:53:16.480 --> 0:53:18.680 a decision after the eight weeks, I want to stay 0:53:18.719 --> 0:53:22.560 for two years, and we finished Young Americans. That's when 0:53:22.560 --> 0:53:26.840 I was the musical director because Nick Ronson he fired 0:53:26.880 --> 0:53:29.160 the whole band in that last show when they did 0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:33.080 the Ziggy movie, which is pretty well known, and David 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:37.120 had told me, you're the only one I'm keeping, but 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:39.920 everyone is being fired. And in that first two years 0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:43.480 most people don't know that he fired five different bands. 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:46.799 We were friends, but that's not why he took me. 0:53:47.280 --> 0:53:49.360 I was able to change styles with him, so I 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:50.280 could do Young. 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:54.439 Americans or play a gospel face. 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:00.560 I could do that, or I could play you know, 0:54:03.160 --> 0:54:21.799 I could do all of that. Well the song he 0:54:21.920 --> 0:54:28.120 never sang once live and I love that record. Ah 0:54:28.400 --> 0:54:30.320 me too? Yeah, good says. 0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:34.960 Okay, let's just focus for a second on Mick Ronson. 0:54:35.600 --> 0:54:40.960 Oh supposedly, you know, he was, you know, not equal 0:54:41.040 --> 0:54:43.560 to Bowie, but he was a main part of those 0:54:43.640 --> 0:54:46.840 shows and he worked with other people. He did the 0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:51.000 two solo records and died of alcoholism. So who was 0:54:51.040 --> 0:54:54.240 the real Mick Ronson? Who was alcohol really is demon. 0:54:56.120 --> 0:54:59.960 Mick was an unstung hero. He was very close from 0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:03.440 He also smoked a lot, so between the alcohol and smoke. 0:55:03.760 --> 0:55:06.600 He died of liver cancer and started Bowie. So they 0:55:06.640 --> 0:55:12.399 both smoked and drank, so they both died from that. 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:16.560 But Mick was a sweetheart. He made it safe for 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:19.200 me to be in the band. I was uncomfortable. I 0:55:19.200 --> 0:55:22.600 didn't know about popularity and fame and autographs. 0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:23.799 Where am I? 0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:26.799 You know when we did the very first show, I 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:31.880 think it was in Cleveland in seventy two. After the encore, 0:55:32.320 --> 0:55:35.279 I see these skies, the spiders and Bowie running to 0:55:35.360 --> 0:55:38.600 a back entrance, zooming down to the basement to get 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:41.720 in a limo, and I'm folding my music on stuff 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:46.080 it was, and all of a sudden, thousand the people 0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:48.560 are coming at me because I'm the next best target. 0:55:49.760 --> 0:55:53.200 And I learned very fast, be careful, get out of there. 0:55:54.200 --> 0:56:00.600 Okay. That show started with a classical piece from Clockwork Orange, 0:56:00.600 --> 0:56:04.560 which was hot at that particular moment. Do you know 0:56:04.640 --> 0:56:05.880 why that was chosen? 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:09.880 I don't know why, but it makes sense that someone 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:13.800 like David would choose this Beethoven thing that was twisted. 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:20.840 You know, I don't know anything other than my relationship 0:56:20.880 --> 0:56:23.840 with him, but I'm sure in the books that's available. 0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:27.560 But I actually only had this musical. He only went 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:30.320 liked to see me as of his pianist. He didn't 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:32.280 want to know me as anything else. 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:39.040 Okay, so how do you feel what he fires the band? Terrible? 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:43.239 Because they were my friends and now I'm having to 0:56:43.280 --> 0:56:45.279 be on a stage with them for two nights and 0:56:45.360 --> 0:56:52.719 I know they're going and they went into shock, And 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:58.160 there might have been reasons for it on a let's say, 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:02.160 a mundane bullshit level. The real truth is this guy 0:57:02.200 --> 0:57:05.200 couldn't stop. He was hearing the next thing, and he's 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:08.399 hearing Diamond Dogs, and he's hearing young Americans, and he's 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:14.560 hearing pin Ups, which were all English covers, and he 0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:18.800 just couldn't help himself. And I think that's the real reason. 0:57:19.040 --> 0:57:22.480 But there were probably financial things and stupid shit that 0:57:22.720 --> 0:57:25.840 musicians do. You know, So that's okay. 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:29.560 You're on the road for eight weeks. Was this the 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:32.320 first time you were on the road that long and 0:57:32.400 --> 0:57:34.520 away from your new wife? 0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:38.760 Interestingly enough, in nineteen seventy I was out for a 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:41.520 year or two on and off with a band called Brethren, 0:57:42.560 --> 0:57:45.720 Rick Murata, the drummer he played in the band, and 0:57:45.760 --> 0:57:49.000 a guy named Tommy Cosgrove, and we had a manager 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:53.360 named Sid Bernstein who brought the shea Stadium and he 0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:54.760 thought we were next Beatles. 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:56.320 I didn't. He did. 0:57:56.760 --> 0:58:01.520 We sounded like Stevie Windward band, and I thought, how 0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:04.360 can we be the next Binals if we're doing even 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:07.360 though they were originals, It distinger sounded too much like 0:58:07.400 --> 0:58:11.120 Stevie Woodenwock. I was original. I took over doctor John's job. 0:58:11.200 --> 0:58:14.080 He did the first album with Brethren, and I did 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:17.200 the second album, and I toured with him and in 0:58:17.320 --> 0:58:19.840 one fine day we didn't make it. And we played 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:21.800 a lot of shows. We opened up all those Joe 0:58:21.840 --> 0:58:23.880 Cocker shows with the mad Doorgs and it. I used 0:58:23.920 --> 0:58:27.360 to watch Lee and Russell ferociously. And two Drummers was 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:30.040 fantastic playing at the Capitol. 0:58:29.680 --> 0:58:35.280 Theater in news. I saw that show too, said hello 0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:40.680 right at the Capitol. Okay, so you say, you know 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:43.520 he fires the spiders from Mars and he's gonna do it. 0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:47.840 Ladd Insane. Tell me about trying out all these new 0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:50.040 musicians at all these bands that don't work. 0:58:52.440 --> 0:58:59.400 He had fantastic drummers, Ainsley Dunbar, Andy Newmore, Dennis Davis, 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:05.360 Tony Newman Wood. He would mint See Sterling, Campbell, z Acholford. 0:59:05.360 --> 0:59:08.720 They were all fantastic drummers. Some just didn't fit for 0:59:08.800 --> 0:59:14.040 a project he was doing. He never put the friendship 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.520 above the integrity of their music. It would sing when 0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:19.880 there was an album he didn't use me, but I 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:23.640 understood it wasn't personally. He heard something else, maybe as 0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:26.680 synthesize it, maybe Brian Eno. So there's plenty of albums 0:59:26.680 --> 0:59:29.520 I'm not on and I got it, you know, And 0:59:30.320 --> 0:59:34.760 you got to love somebody who has integrity, and I 0:59:34.880 --> 0:59:38.280 learned that from him. I had it in me because 0:59:38.280 --> 0:59:41.320 I was disciplined and I only played what I loved. 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:44.600 But I learned even more about holding the A position 0:59:44.760 --> 0:59:47.080 because I went most of the time when I wasn't 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:49.360 with him, and you know, most rock artists they take 0:59:49.480 --> 0:59:53.320 months and months of sometimes years. So I was composing 0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:56.080 classical music and doing all sorts of other things. 0:59:56.360 --> 1:00:00.880 So tell me about the recording of the Laddin scene. 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.920 You couldn't play a wrong note well, because we were 1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:08.440 a Trident studio where they did Hey, Jude and queen 1:00:08.600 --> 1:00:11.840 and all these things. The piano was this Bechstein. It 1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:15.920 was like sent from God to tried. The studio he 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:18.800 had Ken Scott, who had worked with the Beatles, an 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:25.760 amazing engineer, producer, and David I think was tired of 1:00:25.840 --> 1:00:32.280 the guitars from the Ziggy album, you know, and we 1:00:32.320 --> 1:00:34.360 did it. I mean that tour could have gone on 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:37.240 for five years and he could have short after eighteen months. 1:00:37.640 --> 1:00:40.920 So now he I'm the flavor of the month, so 1:00:41.160 --> 1:00:44.480 it's going to be piano centric and I show up 1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:49.240 on these sessions and it was like forensically he went 1:00:49.280 --> 1:00:52.680 into my brain. Let's get that romantic part of Mike 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:58.680 where it was like this, let's get that, and let's 1:00:58.720 --> 1:01:16.400 get the nineteen twenty jazz. But twisted, I'm getting the 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:18.560 chance to practice when I got two gigs coming in 1:01:18.720 --> 1:01:21.200 next week, so thanks for adultery me. 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:22.760 So that was time. 1:01:23.040 --> 1:01:26.400 And then Aladdin's say, which was my avante garde's side. 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.960 So he was able to get the best out of 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:34.040 whatever had practiced the prior years, almost like a prophet 1:01:34.080 --> 1:01:38.280 who could no Every musician he ever had was the 1:01:38.320 --> 1:01:41.400 perfect one at the perfect time, whether it was Carlos 1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:46.280 Alamar or the guitarist, great blues player who died in 1:01:46.320 --> 1:01:47.360 the Plain accident. 1:01:47.720 --> 1:01:48.520 I forgot his name. 1:01:50.320 --> 1:01:53.840 Great guitars, and of course Nick Ronson and then the 1:01:53.960 --> 1:01:58.800 later albums were Donnie mcclasten on Sacks. He always found 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:04.000 the perfect musicians for what he wanted and he the 1:02:04.040 --> 1:02:06.680 best thing about him is he never micromanaged. I've been 1:02:06.720 --> 1:02:11.120 on projects with directors and singers. Do this, play this chord? 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:11.360 Here? 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:16.320 Do and I go from the potential of giving all 1:02:16.360 --> 1:02:18.520 of myself, which is one hundred and ten percent, to 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.640 probably minus twenty because they take the life out of 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:26.280 me and the music. I see it as flowing through me. 1:02:26.720 --> 1:02:28.960 So if someone's fucking yaking at me, do this. 1:02:29.400 --> 1:02:29.880 It's over. 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:33.000 Because I'm not a true studio musician. I'm a I'm 1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:35.600 an artist. I'll do some studio work, but only if 1:02:35.640 --> 1:02:46.440 I want to do it. Okay, Latin saying comes out 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:51.120 at this point. He's a known quantity in America. From 1:02:51.120 --> 1:02:54.439 the outside, it does not look it's as if it's 1:02:54.520 --> 1:02:59.360 commercially successful, as the hate to use the word hype, 1:02:59.720 --> 1:03:02.760 as the expectations. What was it like on the other 1:03:02.840 --> 1:03:03.640 side of the curtain. 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:06.760 It wasn't easy. 1:03:07.080 --> 1:03:11.840 It wasn't easy, and the part of him that wants 1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:16.600 to reach and be famous and all that and was hurt, 1:03:17.120 --> 1:03:23.920 you know, because he was torn between his artistic integrity 1:03:23.960 --> 1:03:27.240 and he has to do this because he traveled. I 1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:30.720 was with him in the limos when he's listening to 1:03:30.800 --> 1:03:35.919 a wreath of Franklin and absorbing getting ready for young 1:03:36.000 --> 1:03:40.960 Americans before we did a lot insane and America every 1:03:41.120 --> 1:03:45.240 town was affecting him. So he had to do it. 1:03:45.280 --> 1:03:47.840 But success wise, I don't think it was anywhere near 1:03:48.360 --> 1:03:49.080 the ziggy thing. 1:03:49.960 --> 1:03:54.520 Okay, and what was your experience of pit ups? 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:57.600 A lot of fun. We were at that chateau where 1:03:57.600 --> 1:04:00.720 Elton did one of his albums in France, and it 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:04.000 was so much fun. Lulu came and she sang man 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:06.600 whole Soul of the World for fun. That became a 1:04:06.680 --> 1:04:09.120 number one single when he recorded it was not on 1:04:09.160 --> 1:04:12.840 the charts, so that was fun. Ainsley Dunball played drums 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.600 and I thought, because I know nothing about rock, I 1:04:15.680 --> 1:04:21.200 thought they were all Bowie songs. He didn't care. I 1:04:21.320 --> 1:04:25.360 had Hammond organ that I had connected to the piano 1:04:25.760 --> 1:04:28.920 on Sorrow, one of those great songs, very short, and 1:04:29.000 --> 1:04:30.560 I was getting this down you could hear it on 1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:32.560 the record what the piano sounds a little different, so 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:36.120 we were experimenting. Then it was an easy album, was fun. 1:04:36.160 --> 1:04:38.160 I think it was good for his head because he 1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:43.160 was separating from the spiders. And more about Mick ronson. 1:04:43.360 --> 1:04:48.320 When they sang together, it was magical, Bob the blend. 1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:51.320 Sometimes I couldn't tell who was who, and the way 1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:56.919 they performed on stage together, it was unreal. Now, when 1:04:57.040 --> 1:04:59.240 Mick went off on his solo album and then his 1:04:59.320 --> 1:05:02.520 solo tour which I played on, they were not successful 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:06.360 at all, and while it was a great band, some 1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:11.680 nice tunes, it didn't have the Bowie magic. So some 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:14.640 people are meant to be that person right under. 1:05:16.600 --> 1:05:23.240 Okay, just a couple of things. Many people are keyboardists 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:27.280 and they'll play the piano, they'll play the sin, they'll 1:05:27.280 --> 1:05:32.640 play the organ. In your particular case, you view yourself 1:05:32.800 --> 1:05:34.080 just as a piano player. 1:05:35.320 --> 1:05:37.840 Yes, but I can play all those and I'm very 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:40.280 good at them, but I'm not known for it. And 1:05:40.520 --> 1:05:43.600 my default is the piano because I love it, and 1:05:43.640 --> 1:05:49.000 that's people know my sounds on any album and when 1:05:49.040 --> 1:05:54.600 I play synths or electric piano or organ, I sound good. 1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:58.120 But it could be any great player, because that's not 1:05:58.960 --> 1:06:02.000 where I live. I just do it as a convenience 1:06:02.840 --> 1:06:05.840 as somebody wants. Oh give me a little electric piano, 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:08.040 but I love the piano. 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:13.439 You went on the road Ziggy started. Did they take 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:18.080 a piano or was there a piano in every market? 1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:21.400 They would have a nine foot grand on every show. 1:06:22.400 --> 1:06:24.640 I'll tell you remember the story with the M and ms, 1:06:24.640 --> 1:06:26.520 with the rock guys and the Green and the Blue. 1:06:26.920 --> 1:06:29.160 I was in Madison Square, Go in the seventy three 1:06:29.160 --> 1:06:31.680 and I had a black nine foot Steinway. I was 1:06:31.760 --> 1:06:34.440 like a pig and shit, the happiest guy in the world, 1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:40.280 real piano. And I made a joke after the concert, 1:06:40.320 --> 1:06:43.040 and the piano technician was there. I said that being 1:06:43.120 --> 1:06:46.360 nice to have a white Steinway. And the next night 1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:50.400 there's this fifteen hundred pounds nine foot white Steinway. I mean, 1:06:50.680 --> 1:06:53.560 I'm lucky if I get a stupid keyboard cassio with 1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:56.680 a kid. You know these days, so that those were 1:06:56.720 --> 1:07:00.040 those times with unbelievable money being spent. 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:03.200 And was the deal that they had to deliver the 1:07:03.200 --> 1:07:06.960 piano and they had to be tuned that day exactly, 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:15.720 And did somebody ever fuck up. No, okay, So now 1:07:15.840 --> 1:07:21.080 it comes to Diamond Dogs. Diamond Dogs has Rebel Rebel. 1:07:21.520 --> 1:07:25.760 It's an arena tour. Some people say, wait, this is 1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:29.760 a commercial compromise. What was it like from your side, 1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:31.880 from your viewpoint, you. 1:07:31.840 --> 1:07:33.600 Know, I was only I was one of the only 1:07:34.240 --> 1:07:38.120 musicians on that album because there was no more Spiders, 1:07:38.200 --> 1:07:43.040 and there was Tony Bisconti was involved in production, an engineer, 1:07:43.520 --> 1:07:45.960 and there was a bass player named Herbie Flowers who 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:48.600 passed this this year. He's the one who played on 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:51.280 the lou Reed Walk on the wild Side Great. I 1:07:51.320 --> 1:07:53.800 toured with him with Bowie on the Diamond Dogs tour. 1:07:54.440 --> 1:07:58.000 But that album, David was into William Burrows and the 1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:01.720 cutups and he would take newspapers and cut it up 1:08:01.760 --> 1:08:05.160 and form lyrics from it. It was a style of writing. 1:08:05.600 --> 1:08:08.080 They ended up in some of those lyrics. But like 1:08:08.120 --> 1:08:12.120 a song like sweet Thing Candidate is, I think it's 1:08:12.160 --> 1:08:16.439 a genius song. Rebel is what everybody knows, Rebel Rebel. 1:08:16.479 --> 1:08:20.040 But there's some good music on there. But it's a 1:08:20.080 --> 1:08:25.080 hard album to digest. But I think it has for 1:08:25.200 --> 1:08:28.880 me to test the time. But not everybody feels that way, 1:08:28.920 --> 1:08:30.960 you know. So it's a music his opinion. 1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:35.840 So could you tell that David was satisfied that he 1:08:35.880 --> 1:08:37.679 had this level of success in America? 1:08:37.760 --> 1:08:41.720 Then I could tell it was breaking. I could feel it. 1:08:42.000 --> 1:08:44.320 I could feel it. They created a little bit of 1:08:44.360 --> 1:08:48.120 a vacuum around him to cause that kind of kernel 1:08:48.320 --> 1:08:50.719 stuff that they did with Elvis and all that, and. 1:08:51.320 --> 1:08:55.920 You know, okay, so that's seventy four, there's a huge success. 1:08:56.600 --> 1:09:01.360 He disappears for about a year, comes packed with something 1:09:01.560 --> 1:09:07.240 completely different, young Americans to what did we? Were you 1:09:07.400 --> 1:09:11.840 up front in all the Philadelphia you know Elements and 1:09:11.920 --> 1:09:15.760 Luther Van Rose and you say, Carlos Alomar shows up, 1:09:17.560 --> 1:09:20.640 what was your viewpoint? What was your participation? 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:26.160 So actually in that album, I was the understarted hero 1:09:26.280 --> 1:09:28.160 because it was me who set the stage for a 1:09:28.200 --> 1:09:30.959 loadst look for the young Americans by going. 1:09:34.160 --> 1:09:34.960 And it starts with. 1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:40.160 It laid the vaud But Luther was the new star 1:09:40.280 --> 1:09:42.120 coming up and I knew it, and I was the 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:46.759 music director. I had no problem. You tell the singers 1:09:46.800 --> 1:09:49.320 what to do, you do this, you do that, and 1:09:49.960 --> 1:09:53.439 that music. It was American music. So it was actually 1:09:53.560 --> 1:09:56.559 closer to my heart than the English music because I 1:09:56.560 --> 1:09:59.160 didn't know the English music. I just played on it, 1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:02.360 but I didn't know it. But I knew the sounds 1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:05.080 he was looking for, and I knew the ojs, and 1:10:05.120 --> 1:10:08.600 I knew all that those kind of music and arefa 1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:13.240 now Luther vandros By the way, he's a great documentary 1:10:13.280 --> 1:10:14.960 on him on CNN that. 1:10:15.000 --> 1:10:16.200 I saw last month. 1:10:16.280 --> 1:10:19.920 It's tested and you see me in it with hair. 1:10:20.280 --> 1:10:23.920 That's what nobody knows. But anyway, he's sitting right behind 1:10:24.000 --> 1:10:29.240 David Bowie and I'm playing the Young Americans and he 1:10:29.320 --> 1:10:32.479 starts singing some harmony stuff. He's not in the band, 1:10:32.520 --> 1:10:35.320 and David doesn't know him. Carlos brought him there. He 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:39.040 was just hanging and David said, oh, come up to 1:10:39.080 --> 1:10:42.519 the mic and the rest of his history. So that 1:10:42.600 --> 1:10:45.719 was a big help to Luther's career, you know, because 1:10:46.320 --> 1:10:50.800 what people don't know is during that tour we were 1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:54.000 the opening act for David. It was called the Garson Band, 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:56.320 but the manager was a prick, and he wouldn't put 1:10:56.360 --> 1:11:00.320 my name on the you know, until he and when 1:11:00.320 --> 1:11:03.000 he saw I was successful, but then it was too late. 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.360 And then he's one of those guys. He was taking 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:10.479 fifty percent of the royalties fifty percent of gross of David, 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:12.320 and that's what he wanted, what he wanted to manage 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:15.559 me and goodbye. But we opened the show for David, 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:18.599 and there were towns we got a better review than David, 1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:21.120 But there were towns they were also throwing raw eggs 1:11:21.160 --> 1:11:23.200 coming on the stage because they didn't want to black 1:11:23.200 --> 1:11:26.160 lives singing soul music when they're waiting for David Bowie. 1:11:26.280 --> 1:11:28.759 So I experienced the good and bad and the ugly 1:11:28.840 --> 1:11:31.679 of that. But I knew Luther was a big talent. 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:39.240 Okay, Stylistically it was a big change from certainly Diamond Dogs. Yeah, 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:42.240 how did you find out that Bowie was going in 1:11:42.280 --> 1:11:45.519 that direction? He told me. 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:49.800 You could hear it a little bit on nineteen eighty 1:11:49.920 --> 1:11:53.240 four on one of the early albums. You could feel 1:11:54.560 --> 1:11:57.600 America influenced them for better or worse, you know. 1:11:59.120 --> 1:12:03.320 Okay, favorite songs on that album, or somebody's up there 1:12:03.560 --> 1:12:08.559 likes me in Fascination, you got good taste, so yes, 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:12.760 so tell me about certainly the clavinet on Fascination and 1:12:13.200 --> 1:12:15.200 instead do I play keyboards? That's me. 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:19.439 And I just you know, I heard a little Stevie Wonder. 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:21.519 I said that sounds like fun, maybe I'll try it. 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:24.879 We have all these jams, maybe these tapes will someday 1:12:24.920 --> 1:12:27.800 come out there hitting tapes. We're just jamming. David be 1:12:28.040 --> 1:12:30.760 just smiling listening to us playing, because we have an 1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:37.719 amazing band. We had Willie Weeks on bass, Oh my god, 1:12:37.920 --> 1:12:40.559 you know, maybe the best electric bass player I played 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:43.960 with for that kind of music. We had Andy Nwmalk, 1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:48.799 who's fantastic trauma. He's in London. He's crazy, is anything, 1:12:48.920 --> 1:12:53.160 but he's he's great, and he played drums and columns, 1:12:53.320 --> 1:12:57.040 you know, and earl Slick was starting to emerge, you know, 1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:01.360 and because there was no Mick ronson but David was 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:07.160 fascinated with Stigma sound and Philly and that sound. But 1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:09.439 he did it his way, you know. They kind of 1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:12.479 called it a plastics or whatever they named it, but 1:13:13.000 --> 1:13:16.479 it was authentic for him. Whatever he did, he always 1:13:16.479 --> 1:13:19.600 sounded like David Bowie. I didn't rehearsals. He'd fucked with 1:13:19.680 --> 1:13:23.240 us and sound like Elder saw Johnny Cash for fun 1:13:23.240 --> 1:13:25.879 because he had that kind of ear and he could imitate, 1:13:26.200 --> 1:13:29.040 but he really had his own voice, didn't he. 1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:33.599 So then he starts working with Eno, going to Germany 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:37.599 and you're not called well, how did you find out? 1:13:37.680 --> 1:13:40.439 And how'd you feel? Terrible? 1:13:41.320 --> 1:13:43.760 I still feel terrible because I know just what I 1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:45.720 would have played on every album. 1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:46.400 I wasn't on. 1:13:46.880 --> 1:13:51.120 I just know. But you know, you have to respect 1:13:51.439 --> 1:13:55.280 a guy. Here's another direction, and God bless him. And 1:13:55.520 --> 1:13:58.400 it's not like I wasn't working. I started working with 1:13:58.800 --> 1:14:02.599 fusion music, like at Stanley Clark, I played with Freddie Hubbard, 1:14:03.400 --> 1:14:06.000 Elvin Jones. I mean it was on and on. I 1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:10.080 was doing great, but I started to miss him and 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:17.200 he started to miss me, and we reconvened, believe it 1:14:17.280 --> 1:14:21.880 or not, in eighteen years after the Young Americans for 1:14:22.720 --> 1:14:25.679 Black Tie, White Noise, and then I did everything through 1:14:25.720 --> 1:14:31.519 two thousand and five or something like that. So I 1:14:31.640 --> 1:14:36.559 was very appreciative to be creating again. And I'll never forget. 1:14:36.920 --> 1:14:40.120 We're sitting in the studio, you know, the outside album 1:14:40.760 --> 1:14:46.120 by any chance. So so yeah, it's pretty out there. 1:14:46.800 --> 1:14:49.559 And here's what he said to me. He said, Mike, 1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:57.160 I really I suffered with the record companies. I feel 1:14:57.200 --> 1:15:02.160 I compromised my integrity. I'm doing now is gathering all 1:15:02.200 --> 1:15:07.160 my favorite musicians, Carlos said, Brian Eno and me and 1:15:07.200 --> 1:15:10.760 we're gonna go to montrou and we're just gonna improvise 1:15:11.760 --> 1:15:15.360 with two Sony tape records forty eight connected and we're 1:15:15.360 --> 1:15:18.880 gonna just improvise two three four hours a day for 1:15:18.920 --> 1:15:21.640 two weeks, and you're gonna go home and me and 1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:23.920 Brian turn him into songs. 1:15:25.080 --> 1:15:25.760 Well, this is. 1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:30.040 Right up my alley. Right, That's all I did is improvised. 1:15:30.080 --> 1:15:32.920 They didn't even tell us keys. Sometimes they played us 1:15:32.960 --> 1:15:35.240 Marvin Gay in the headphones and they told us to 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:37.840 play against it, and then they took off Marvin Gay 1:15:37.840 --> 1:15:40.720 and you had some crazy collagio sound and then it 1:15:40.760 --> 1:15:43.000 turns out to be a song called I'm Deranged or 1:15:43.000 --> 1:15:46.320 this and that. So it was a fantastic musical experience. 1:15:46.400 --> 1:15:48.760 But he said, I need to go in with you 1:15:48.840 --> 1:15:51.599 guys to get back to myself. So this is gonna 1:15:51.600 --> 1:15:54.080 be a very avant god album. People are not gonna 1:15:54.200 --> 1:15:57.479 like it. Then when we toured his manager A bil Zie, 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:00.559 he runs to State. He came to me said, can 1:16:00.600 --> 1:16:03.679 you talk to him about doing the hits? I said, Bill, 1:16:04.400 --> 1:16:07.880 you talk to him. You're the manager. This is I'm 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:12.160 happy here. You're rich, he's rich. Let him do what 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:14.640 he has to do I promise you will end up 1:16:14.640 --> 1:16:18.080 doing hits again whenever that comes. It happened a year 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:21.040 or two later, so he had to do it for 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:24.360 Saul and I haven't delight the album, but it's not commercial. 1:16:25.439 --> 1:16:28.360 You work with Eno for the first time. What does 1:16:28.439 --> 1:16:32.439 he add? Picture this. 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:35.559 I'm on this nine foot steinway and right behind me 1:16:35.600 --> 1:16:39.960 there's a DX seven Yamaha keyboard. And every day there 1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:44.000 was a little music store right next to montro where 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:46.240 they had the jazz festival, and right next to the 1:16:46.320 --> 1:16:50.559 studio where Queen recorded, there's a little music store. He 1:16:50.560 --> 1:16:54.120 would buy this little box, did crazy sounds like the 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:56.600 tall players buy boxes. And he connect us to the 1:16:56.680 --> 1:17:03.000 DX seven keyboard and I'm playing all this, I'm all 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:05.080 over the piano and I'm hearing in my head of 1:17:05.560 --> 1:17:13.040 peep peep, peep, peep peep like and that turned out 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:16.320 to be on Space Boy or something. But he had 1:17:16.360 --> 1:17:19.559 a lot of taste. He told me his instrument was 1:17:19.600 --> 1:17:22.800 the studio. So he took me Alpha dinner, and he 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:25.479 wanted to know about Bill Evans and jazz, and he 1:17:25.600 --> 1:17:28.880 respected my playing, and he in his book he calls 1:17:28.920 --> 1:17:33.200 it the garsthonic style. So there was a deep respect 1:17:33.280 --> 1:17:36.360 and of course he's kind of a whack o genius, 1:17:36.439 --> 1:17:39.320 you know, in a whole different way, which just shows 1:17:39.360 --> 1:17:42.360 you how deep art can be if you're not sucked 1:17:42.400 --> 1:17:46.400 into the you know, the bullshit, you know. And it 1:17:46.520 --> 1:17:48.880 was fun working with him, and he had a nice vision, 1:17:49.000 --> 1:17:51.759 and he played jokes on David every day and crazy 1:17:51.800 --> 1:18:02.520 stuff we go on in the studio, you know, Okay. 1:18:02.479 --> 1:18:05.880 Ultimately you go on the road. That's David's a little 1:18:05.880 --> 1:18:07.800 bit of an underplay. I saw it at the will 1:18:07.880 --> 1:18:11.200 Turn and that's his last tour. 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:13.280 You saw that one. 1:18:13.320 --> 1:18:15.479 Oh, I was there absolutely, Yeah. 1:18:15.560 --> 1:18:18.720 Yeah, that was a fun gig actually, and well he 1:18:18.840 --> 1:18:20.000 was very loose. 1:18:19.800 --> 1:18:22.599 And without all the airs, and that's why we made 1:18:22.600 --> 1:18:22.960 it cool. 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:26.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was a breath of fresh air, 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.720 you know, right. That was that was the last to 1:18:29.000 --> 1:18:31.559 sadly we had. Look, we had been on the road 1:18:31.680 --> 1:18:34.400 thirteen months ball and we did one hundred and thirteen 1:18:34.439 --> 1:18:37.679 shows and he gets a heart attack in Hamburg, Germany, 1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:40.600 and I'm playing for him on the stage and I 1:18:40.640 --> 1:18:43.320 see him holding his heart and I could feel my 1:18:43.439 --> 1:18:48.439 fingers tightened up because we have this spiritual, telepathic connection 1:18:48.600 --> 1:18:51.719 from so many years of playing together and I said 1:18:51.720 --> 1:18:55.000 something was wrong, and he managed to get through the 1:18:55.040 --> 1:18:57.720 show and they zoomed him over in hospital. He had 1:18:57.920 --> 1:19:02.760 thence put in and never after that. I did one 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.880 or two shows with him and me alone with Alicia Keys, 1:19:06.120 --> 1:19:09.360 like some Benefits, and that was the last shows he 1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:12.599 ever done. He did two more albums later. He wanted 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:14.600 me to move to New York that I had my 1:19:14.600 --> 1:19:17.760 whole family settled here. Had I have a regret because 1:19:17.800 --> 1:19:20.360 had I moved, which I couldn't was impractical when my 1:19:20.400 --> 1:19:23.559 kids were in school and all that. But had I moved, 1:19:23.600 --> 1:19:25.360 I would have been on those last two albums because 1:19:25.400 --> 1:19:27.559 he used everyone from New York and he told me so. 1:19:28.240 --> 1:19:32.360 But whatever, I'm happy that where I contributed is where 1:19:32.360 --> 1:19:33.080 I contributed. 1:19:33.240 --> 1:19:36.880 You know, Okay, when did you know he was sick? 1:19:38.600 --> 1:19:43.479 I heard it only through rumors and he never told 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:47.840 anyone except one or two people. And there was a 1:19:47.880 --> 1:19:51.200 biography being done by me at the time, by some 1:19:51.320 --> 1:19:51.960 English guy. 1:19:52.080 --> 1:19:54.000 I think it was called Bowie's Piano Man or something 1:19:54.080 --> 1:19:54.679 like that. 1:19:54.800 --> 1:20:01.800 And the author said to me, can you listen to 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:04.880 these sixty songs or eighty songs that you played with 1:20:05.439 --> 1:20:09.360 through David's career? And critique to all of them, and 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:12.040 now I had never done that. I had to step 1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:14.760 for hours and go through every single song. I was 1:20:14.840 --> 1:20:18.599 overwhelmed because it was good him and me and it 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:24.880 was magical. And so I wrote David and I said, 1:20:25.240 --> 1:20:28.040 I'm in shock here. This ship was better than I thought. 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:32.599 And within three seconds I got an email Mike. We 1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:35.559 did a great body of work. And I got off 1:20:35.600 --> 1:20:38.840 the phone and I said, Susan, I said, that's the 1:20:38.920 --> 1:20:40.920 last time I'm going to hear from him. He said 1:20:40.960 --> 1:20:44.960 something very final. We did a great body of work 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:47.439 and three months later he was dead. 1:20:50.560 --> 1:20:54.559 So he's such a big part of your life. Is 1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:59.080 it like a death of a member of a family. Yes. Yes, 1:21:01.439 --> 1:21:03.280 Just to go back to put a rap on it, 1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:08.120 you say that he treated you as his piano player. 1:21:08.680 --> 1:21:13.760 It was a musical connection. To what degree did you 1:21:13.960 --> 1:21:20.120 have experiences or a relationship like two people might be 1:21:20.120 --> 1:21:23.439 a member of a band but might talk about, you know, 1:21:23.560 --> 1:21:26.479 what they had for dinner or some movie. Was he 1:21:26.560 --> 1:21:28.160 that kind of guy or did he keep you at 1:21:28.200 --> 1:21:28.759 arm's length? 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:32.280 No, he was very sociable and he considered his band 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:35.400 close friends. Now we were in a bus together right 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:39.720 for years and so we talked philosophy. He was going 1:21:39.800 --> 1:21:42.000 to be a Buddhist. He told me the Buddhist guy 1:21:42.000 --> 1:21:44.879 said you better go sting, You'll have a bigger effect, 1:21:45.400 --> 1:21:49.200 and he was smart. We'd be going from one city 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:50.960 to another, and by the time we got the next 1:21:50.960 --> 1:21:53.920 city had read three books I mean kind of like 1:21:54.000 --> 1:21:59.959 You and that were just like absorbing, absorbing. And sometimes 1:22:00.080 --> 1:22:02.880 we wouldn't see him, but many times after a show 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:06.000 we'd be sitting in He used to like to watch 1:22:06.080 --> 1:22:11.479 The Office, the original one, the English version would really rissed, 1:22:12.000 --> 1:22:14.960 and we would watch that after while we're in the 1:22:15.000 --> 1:22:17.120 bus going to another country a city. 1:22:17.439 --> 1:22:17.960 And he was. 1:22:20.320 --> 1:22:23.639 Very warm person. He had a lot of feeling. When 1:22:23.680 --> 1:22:26.560 my dad died in the mid nineties, I had to 1:22:26.720 --> 1:22:29.479 be at the funeral, and my dad made sure. He 1:22:29.600 --> 1:22:32.559 asked me when I'm going to Finland and when the 1:22:32.560 --> 1:22:36.360 tour was over, and he worked out his death right 1:22:36.479 --> 1:22:43.000 in between those two things. It was unbelievable. My dad said, 1:22:43.000 --> 1:22:45.200 I want you to play these three songs, and I'm 1:22:45.240 --> 1:22:48.080 getting a Steinway. It was all planned, and then you 1:22:48.200 --> 1:22:50.839 go back on tour and I go to the funeral 1:22:50.920 --> 1:22:54.599 and I go to rehearsal right after, and David gave 1:22:54.640 --> 1:22:58.120 me the biggest hug and sincere condolences. 1:22:58.560 --> 1:22:58.840 It was. 1:23:01.000 --> 1:23:04.120 That was David Bowie, that was David Jones, or that 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:07.360 was the real person, that was not a persona. And 1:23:07.640 --> 1:23:12.160 I think that's where his love and the music was 1:23:12.360 --> 1:23:15.280 underneath whatever crap they might have been on the crust 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:18.120 on the top. You know, it's just a horrible business. 1:23:18.439 --> 1:23:23.840 Okay. Your father and mother, your father in law, were 1:23:23.840 --> 1:23:26.560 they proud of your success or with your father in 1:23:26.680 --> 1:23:29.160 law was always you know, it's like Bruce Springsteen mother 1:23:29.240 --> 1:23:31.000 saying go back to college when he's talk about the 1:23:31.040 --> 1:23:34.360 trucking company. Or were they thrilled about Could they even 1:23:34.439 --> 1:23:35.919 understand your success? 1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:40.680 The only one who understood was my dad. He was 1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:44.920 put on the planet to support me, and no matter 1:23:45.120 --> 1:23:47.920 what I played. He was on his dying in bed 1:23:47.960 --> 1:23:52.280 one time and I said, Dad, I'm playing in Arizona 1:23:52.600 --> 1:23:56.880 discosta with Dox Everson and a symphony orchestra. He had 1:23:56.920 --> 1:23:59.280 just told me two hours earlier you couldn't go down 1:23:59.320 --> 1:24:02.920 to the delicatest and he loved his pastrowomy sandwiches. And 1:24:03.960 --> 1:24:05.640 he got on the plane and he was at the 1:24:05.680 --> 1:24:09.479 gig handing out Champagne to do Stevenson and the Band, 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:14.559 totally alert and happy in his mid eighties. The show 1:24:14.720 --> 1:24:18.320 was over. Back in the wheelchair, flumped over, looked like 1:24:18.360 --> 1:24:19.120 he was gonna die. 1:24:21.040 --> 1:24:22.800 So he was. He was the one who got it. 1:24:22.960 --> 1:24:26.880 My mom medical doctor, my mother law medical doctor, my 1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:28.320 bad in law, trucking business. 1:24:28.439 --> 1:24:32.040 It was unfortunately, I can understand this. 1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:35.240 What makes you say that? 1:24:35.240 --> 1:24:37.719 That's my own story going back to Okay, So those 1:24:37.800 --> 1:24:42.120 seventeen years when Bowie is doing his thing without you, 1:24:42.240 --> 1:24:43.040 what are you doing? 1:24:44.479 --> 1:24:47.360 I played a lot of jazz, did a lot of teaching, 1:24:48.040 --> 1:24:50.639 and I became part of a group called Free Flight. 1:24:51.200 --> 1:24:53.439 It was a flute player who played in the La 1:24:53.560 --> 1:24:57.960 Philharmonic that loved jazz and classical. Was Ralph Humphrey on 1:24:58.040 --> 1:25:01.240 drums who played with Zappa and Algio, and a great 1:25:01.240 --> 1:25:04.800 studio musician and a bass player named Jim Lacefield and 1:25:05.560 --> 1:25:08.720 myself and we mixed classical and jazz. We had a 1:25:08.760 --> 1:25:11.719 lovely career. Played on Johnny Carson three times. We played 1:25:11.720 --> 1:25:15.000 at the Hollywood Bowl. We played at Lincoln Center for 1:25:15.080 --> 1:25:18.080 a jazz jazz classical group. We did pretty good. We 1:25:18.080 --> 1:25:20.639 had an agent and we played those performing art centers 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:23.120 of whole two thousand people. So they have built in, 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:25.040 they still out and we had a good ten to 1:25:25.080 --> 1:25:27.679 fifteen year room. I was totally happy. And then David 1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:30.479 Cole I got a sub for those other gigs after 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:33.800 and so I was good at Stanley Clark was a 1:25:33.840 --> 1:25:36.559 great bass player. I played on piano and a lot 1:25:36.600 --> 1:25:39.000 of his movies Boys in the Hood. That's me playing 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:40.360 piano and a. 1:25:40.040 --> 1:25:43.920 Woaho a little bit slower. Hey, let's go back to 1:25:43.920 --> 1:25:46.360 Bowie for a second. Do you have a royalty interest 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:47.639 from Bowie at all? 1:25:49.120 --> 1:25:50.320 You know the number zero? 1:25:50.840 --> 1:25:54.840 Yes? Okay, next, that's what I thought it was. But 1:25:55.360 --> 1:25:57.080 just making sure, okay. 1:25:57.280 --> 1:26:01.479 So in London in nineteen seventy three, the union scale 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:07.000 for three hours was eighteen pounds, which was thirty three dollars. 1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:10.759 So I'm pretty fast in the studio. So on Aladdin's Staine, 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:13.640 I made one hundred and fifty dollars. 1:26:14.880 --> 1:26:18.360 How long are we there? Well, I did you know? 1:26:18.439 --> 1:26:22.719 Maybe three sessions over a few days, three three. 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:27.640 Hour sessions, six hour sessions. Okay, let's let's see it. 1:26:27.840 --> 1:26:28.920 I don't I don't want to. 1:26:29.960 --> 1:26:32.240 I don't want to upset you too much because you've 1:26:32.280 --> 1:26:37.639 heard it a few times, and you know, David's viewpoint 1:26:37.960 --> 1:26:40.840 is use my name. And he probably didn't know what 1:26:40.920 --> 1:26:43.280 I was even getting paid, because he himself was being 1:26:43.320 --> 1:26:45.800 ripped off by the manager at fifty percent, as I 1:26:45.840 --> 1:26:47.720 told you, and he was bankrupt in the eighties, so 1:26:48.040 --> 1:26:50.000 I don't know that he knew. All I knew was 1:26:50.040 --> 1:26:52.639 in the later years when we said, can't we get 1:26:52.680 --> 1:26:55.240 a million dollars for this tour? We're giving our life 1:26:55.280 --> 1:26:57.680 away from He said, just use my name. You'll be 1:26:57.760 --> 1:26:59.639 busy and you'll be working the rest of your life. 1:27:00.200 --> 1:27:00.880 Some truth to that. 1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:09.720 But the English guys Nick and David Sheep passed legendarily. 1:27:12.640 --> 1:27:13.519 What's the word just then? 1:27:13.800 --> 1:27:19.960 Is it legendarily? Okay? You talk about working with Stanley Clark, 1:27:20.360 --> 1:27:24.040 working on movie scores, et cetera. Are you just sitting 1:27:24.080 --> 1:27:26.599 at home and the phone range or today it's an 1:27:26.640 --> 1:27:30.000 email or are you working it networking? How does all 1:27:30.000 --> 1:27:30.759 this should happen? 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:35.960 I never did anything. The phone would bring christ you know, 1:27:36.280 --> 1:27:39.680 I tended to deliver, and I love music and I 1:27:39.720 --> 1:27:44.960 love communicating, co creating with people, so I didn't really 1:27:45.360 --> 1:27:49.040 do anything. And sometimes there would periods no work would 1:27:49.080 --> 1:27:51.920 come in, but all of a sudden, The movie Stigmata 1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:56.000 comes out twenty five years ago, and actually the same 1:27:56.040 --> 1:28:00.240 director who did the Ukrainian thing. But that movie comes 1:28:00.240 --> 1:28:02.559 out and I do the score with Billy Corgan and 1:28:02.600 --> 1:28:06.479 then Billy Corgan says, you want to go out with 1:28:06.600 --> 1:28:11.920 the Smashing Pumpkins. Things would always come in, but there 1:28:11.960 --> 1:28:15.599 would be those very rough times where I'd have to 1:28:15.680 --> 1:28:17.360 just refinance my house just to. 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:20.599 Buy Tell me a little bit more about that. 1:28:23.040 --> 1:28:25.880 I should bring my wife in on that one. She's 1:28:25.920 --> 1:28:28.960 the one who suffers because she's paying the bills every Monday. 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:32.519 And it was not easy, you know. And several times, 1:28:32.560 --> 1:28:35.040 over many years, we had to refinance our house and 1:28:35.160 --> 1:28:37.280 never get us going for six months for a year, 1:28:37.320 --> 1:28:41.200 and then you're paying more mortgage. Sometimes, grace of God, 1:28:41.240 --> 1:28:44.760 I would get another gig, and sometimes I didn't, and 1:28:44.840 --> 1:28:46.960 sometimes we're gonna have to sell the house. And then 1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:49.320 all of a sudden, Bowie calls, you know. I mean, 1:28:50.160 --> 1:28:54.360 it's a rollercoaster. Would I recommend that kind of a career. 1:28:56.240 --> 1:28:58.479 You just have to love the music so much that 1:28:58.520 --> 1:29:00.519 you don't care what the fuck happened to you. 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:04.840 Did you ever get so frustrated that you contemplated giving up, 1:29:05.439 --> 1:29:06.400 not for a second. 1:29:06.479 --> 1:29:11.040 B I would just go play the piano for ten hours, 1:29:11.400 --> 1:29:14.799 and I got better. When I had no work, I'd. 1:29:14.640 --> 1:29:18.519 Compose, Okay, to what degree? You know? It's one thing 1:29:18.560 --> 1:29:22.120 if Stanley Clark is calling, Billy Corgan whatever, But to 1:29:22.240 --> 1:29:25.400 what degree could you work on your own when no 1:29:25.479 --> 1:29:26.400 one was calling. 1:29:26.880 --> 1:29:29.760 I always had solo gigs and trio gigs. I'd go 1:29:29.800 --> 1:29:32.719 to Israel, I'd go to Japan, go to the Blue Notes. 1:29:33.000 --> 1:29:37.400 I always worked. There was small clubs called two dollars 1:29:37.439 --> 1:29:40.120 Bills that was on Franklin and Bronson. I worked there 1:29:40.280 --> 1:29:43.960 for years, maybe forty six to eighty dollars, and did 1:29:43.960 --> 1:29:46.839 a Friday and a Saturday. I played in San Diego 1:29:46.920 --> 1:29:49.479 and another jazz club for six years. I played there 1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:53.680 six nights a week, sometimes over six months. So I 1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:58.080 was always working. And I love anything I played because 1:29:58.080 --> 1:30:01.000 it was jazz or it was a great rock band. 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:04.840 And then, like I said, I was smart enough to 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:09.599 add the income through my piano lessons that I taught, 1:30:10.080 --> 1:30:14.479 and that was steady because students came, you know every week. 1:30:14.960 --> 1:30:18.479 Okay, how did you build that business? Word of mouth? 1:30:20.560 --> 1:30:23.360 Word of mouth? Okay, there are a lot of people 1:30:23.400 --> 1:30:27.479 who are great players and shitty teachers. So what's the 1:30:27.560 --> 1:30:29.080 key to being a good teacher. 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:32.559 I might be a better teacher than player. If I'm 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:36.160 going to be really honest, If I've done five thousand concerts, 1:30:36.160 --> 1:30:39.799 I'd say two thousand were great and three thousand okay, 1:30:40.520 --> 1:30:44.080 phoned it in or whatever I've thought. Ten thousand students 1:30:44.360 --> 1:30:47.719 nine nine hundred and ninety were great, a few didn't 1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:51.280 go right, And it's it's getting out of your own 1:30:51.320 --> 1:30:55.840 way wanting to answer the question. The problem with classical 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:58.840 teachers and chanced you must do this, you mustn't do that. 1:30:59.320 --> 1:31:01.559 My viewpoint is what do you want to learn? Why 1:31:01.600 --> 1:31:04.040 am I going to put you on an excursion of class? 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:06.439 But if you want to be a singer songwriter? I 1:31:06.479 --> 1:31:11.760 taught Vonda Shephard. She did the Ali McBeal show. All 1:31:11.960 --> 1:31:17.360 I certainly, oh good, Yeah, she was my student at fourteen. 1:31:17.880 --> 1:31:22.360 Wow. So how skilled does someone have to be for 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:25.040 you to teach them? 1:31:25.240 --> 1:31:28.200 In the seventies, I was like a tyrant in New York, 1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:29.960 and they had to be willing to do eight hours 1:31:29.960 --> 1:31:33.000 a day and be very advanced. But now, so many 1:31:33.080 --> 1:31:37.519 years later, all I require is desire, they don't have 1:31:37.640 --> 1:31:41.280 to play. I teach doctors and lawyers on Zoom all 1:31:41.320 --> 1:31:45.559 around the world and they just love it. And that's 1:31:45.560 --> 1:31:48.400 all I need. And I did all the virtual also 1:31:48.479 --> 1:31:50.679 class and stuff I taught the jazz people. I taught 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:54.040 people who worked with Miles Davis. I won that game 1:31:54.360 --> 1:31:58.480 a long time ago. I actually like teaching simple songwriting 1:31:58.560 --> 1:32:02.040 and simple cause I'm playing simpler now that I ever did. 1:32:02.160 --> 1:32:03.880 And I was always had to be jazz for was 1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:08.120 now simple pop cause, but getting the magic out of them, 1:32:09.040 --> 1:32:11.960 whether it's solo. I played a cancer benefit. That's when 1:32:11.960 --> 1:32:15.000 I met your nephew right two weeks ago. And you know, 1:32:15.040 --> 1:32:17.080 I do a lot of that stuff and I love it. 1:32:17.160 --> 1:32:21.599 You know. So when you're playing two dollars bills, is 1:32:21.640 --> 1:32:22.800 it depressing at all? 1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:26.160 No, it's always filmed. I get two dollars each person. 1:32:28.800 --> 1:32:30.599 I'll leave it at that. Okay, how do you meet 1:32:30.640 --> 1:32:33.280 Billy Corgan? And ended up working with Billy Corgan. 1:32:33.880 --> 1:32:37.160 So we're in France and one of these television shows 1:32:37.200 --> 1:32:39.479 and there's several bands in a circle and Bowie was 1:32:39.520 --> 1:32:41.280 one of them. And I'm in the dressing room and 1:32:41.720 --> 1:32:44.880 bolways have a new discussion with Billy Corgan about God, 1:32:45.240 --> 1:32:48.240 and he says tells his bodyguard called Mike, he'll want 1:32:48.280 --> 1:32:50.800 to discuss this, and he said, what do you think 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:51.400 about God? 1:32:51.680 --> 1:32:52.120 I don't know. 1:32:53.120 --> 1:32:56.000 It's not a guy sitting up there waving a hand 1:32:56.160 --> 1:32:59.320 striking people. There may be all that is. I don't know, 1:32:59.439 --> 1:33:04.320 infinite intelligence something. I know it's bigger than just the body, 1:33:04.400 --> 1:33:08.479 but I didn't know much more to stay other than that. 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:12.840 And then we became friends. And then he's auditioning. I'm 1:33:12.880 --> 1:33:16.040 in a jazz gig in Wisconsin or something, and I 1:33:16.040 --> 1:33:19.400 see he's auditioning paddle players because there was a mess 1:33:19.479 --> 1:33:24.320 with Smashing Pumpkins and the drummer and the terrible and 1:33:24.520 --> 1:33:26.759 they needed a keyboard play and it was auditioning people. 1:33:27.080 --> 1:33:28.840 So I called him. He said, well, I never thought 1:33:28.840 --> 1:33:31.160 you would want to work with me. I said, you're interesting, 1:33:31.280 --> 1:33:34.479 and I'd like to. And that's how I got that gig. 1:33:34.640 --> 1:33:37.879 You know, we have about one hundred and eighty hours 1:33:38.120 --> 1:33:41.880 of DVDs and never released with Kenny Aronoff and oh 1:33:41.960 --> 1:33:44.479 my god, it wasn't a Pumpkins band. It was a 1:33:44.520 --> 1:33:47.680 Billy Corgan tour. I did a Pumpkins tour that one 1:33:47.760 --> 1:33:50.759 of their final ones. These bands always have final gigs 1:33:50.800 --> 1:33:52.639 and then they do ten more final gigs. 1:33:52.920 --> 1:33:59.800 Okay, Billy Corgan has a reputation as being somewhat mercurial 1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:04.800 and difficult. Is that a misperception or what is the 1:34:04.840 --> 1:34:13.719 insight into that? It's not a misperception. But for better 1:34:13.840 --> 1:34:16.800 or worse, he knows what he wants and he doesn't 1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:20.040 stop till he gets it. He maybe could get out 1:34:20.160 --> 1:34:23.559 some soft sandpaper and refinement a little. Maybe he has 1:34:23.720 --> 1:34:27.120 now because he's married and got some kids. I think 1:34:27.200 --> 1:34:29.120 he's changed because I sat him with him at the 1:34:29.120 --> 1:34:31.600 Hollywood Bowl about a year or two ago and it 1:34:31.680 --> 1:34:34.000 was different. I also, he got married last year. I 1:34:34.040 --> 1:34:38.080 played his wedding, So he's cool. But I saw him 1:34:38.520 --> 1:34:41.439 pretty rough on the guitar players and bass players in 1:34:41.520 --> 1:34:45.160 the band, you know, James and Darcy. It was painful. 1:34:45.600 --> 1:34:48.519 He respected me so much. We never had an issue 1:34:48.560 --> 1:34:52.040 with him. But one time he came into the bus 1:34:52.160 --> 1:34:54.439 after a constant in Japan and he went around to 1:34:54.520 --> 1:34:57.240 each person in the band and must have a photograph 1:34:57.280 --> 1:34:59.599 of memory, but told each one what they did wrong, 1:35:00.720 --> 1:35:03.120 and it really hurt me. So I went to him 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:08.200 and I said, Billy couldn't you wait till tomorrow? Everyone's 1:35:08.280 --> 1:35:11.320 coming off the stage. The audience was happy. We played good, 1:35:12.479 --> 1:35:14.840 he said, these people are coming to see me, Mike, 1:35:14.960 --> 1:35:17.479 and my job is to give the best I could give. 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:19.519 And when I hear something wrong, I wanted fixed. 1:35:19.880 --> 1:35:21.960 So how could I fault that? 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:25.479 I might say? Can you do it with a soft touch? 1:35:25.600 --> 1:35:31.479 That's all? Okay, you're a jazz guy. Smashing Pumpkins certainly 1:35:31.520 --> 1:35:35.040 had an arrow where they make it commercially successful. But 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:40.280 is that music to the lady enough interesting enough for you? 1:35:41.840 --> 1:35:44.280 My challenge when I play with any of these rock bands, 1:35:44.320 --> 1:35:48.719 even Bowie, what can I find that contributes and ads? 1:35:49.360 --> 1:35:54.679 Sometimes it's minimal and sometimes it's a long and Billy 1:35:54.800 --> 1:35:56.960 is a funny guy. We'd be doing and he'd stop 1:35:57.080 --> 1:35:59.600 the band playing for twenty thousand people and asked me 1:35:59.680 --> 1:36:01.679 to play Summertime by myself. 1:36:09.840 --> 1:36:11.920 Okay, how did you hook up with Trent Reznor? 1:36:12.640 --> 1:36:16.960 He uh opened with us for Bowie in ninety five. 1:36:17.000 --> 1:36:19.080 I remember being at the Forum. Were you at that show? 1:36:19.120 --> 1:36:21.519 By anyhow? That show I was not at? Okay. 1:36:21.840 --> 1:36:25.120 So we were on tour together, not in Europe but 1:36:25.200 --> 1:36:28.479 in America, and they would play the first half of 1:36:28.520 --> 1:36:30.800 the show, and then there would be some dovetailing where 1:36:31.160 --> 1:36:33.320 David would sing a trend song and TRP would singer 1:36:33.439 --> 1:36:38.040 David Saw and he would be always listening to me 1:36:38.160 --> 1:36:38.800 in rehearsal. 1:36:39.080 --> 1:36:41.920 I couldn't understand why I didn't even know him, and 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:44.040 we'd walk in the hall to the dressing rooms and 1:36:44.160 --> 1:36:50.160 we sort of not never was introduced, and one time 1:36:50.479 --> 1:36:54.000 in Keyboard magazine or Downby, somebody asked him in the nineties, 1:36:54.000 --> 1:36:56.519 who would you like the next recovers and he said me, 1:36:56.760 --> 1:36:59.920 and I was felt flattered, And then that didn't occur 1:37:00.080 --> 1:37:02.880 for another two years. Then I did the Fragile album, 1:37:02.880 --> 1:37:06.280 which was a great double album, and and then a 1:37:06.360 --> 1:37:08.840 few years later he invited me. I think it might 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:11.439 have been at the Wilton again nine in Shales. They 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:15.439 were it was their last. Do you remember seeing me 1:37:15.520 --> 1:37:18.600 at that one? Because there's so many last shows, No, 1:37:18.800 --> 1:37:21.960 I Jim Garrino was the manager. I certainly remember that 1:37:22.160 --> 1:37:25.920 last show, all the things about the ticketing. Unfortunately I 1:37:26.040 --> 1:37:29.160 do not remember you being there. I'm not sure it 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:34.080 would have have been maybe in two thousand and six. Yeah, yeah, anyway, 1:37:34.439 --> 1:37:37.120 I played two Stars at matt As, not but he 1:37:37.240 --> 1:37:41.320 said something that was hard for me to grasp or 1:37:41.680 --> 1:37:45.360 or absorb. He said, ladies and gentlemen, I like to 1:37:45.400 --> 1:37:48.720 bring up friend of mine and he's been my biggest inspiration. 1:37:49.560 --> 1:37:52.799 And then he announced me, and I'm thinking, I hardly 1:37:52.960 --> 1:37:57.400 know you, and we come from different universes. And then 1:37:57.439 --> 1:38:00.360 I remembered when we were in the studio. I played 1:38:00.400 --> 1:38:02.720 on fifteen tracks on the Fragile album, but he only 1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:07.240 put me on three. I said, Trent, what happened? And 1:38:07.360 --> 1:38:11.200 he said, your influence was so strong and so connected 1:38:11.240 --> 1:38:15.080 with Bowie, I was losing my voice, so I picked 1:38:15.120 --> 1:38:17.920 the three that I felt with work. I said, this 1:38:18.080 --> 1:38:20.559 is exactly what I said to him. I said, I. 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:24.720 Really respect that, but I also said fuck you, and 1:38:25.040 --> 1:38:27.920 I said, please put them out instrumental someday because it 1:38:28.040 --> 1:38:30.599 was amazing and he was a great producer. He had 1:38:30.720 --> 1:38:33.280 sixty keyboards in the studio in New Orleans is the 1:38:33.320 --> 1:38:37.440 place that burned down, and then he had three pianos 1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:40.479 for me. Pick your choice. I mean, so what is 1:38:40.760 --> 1:38:41.719 his magic? 1:38:42.560 --> 1:38:43.559 What does he bring? 1:38:44.840 --> 1:38:47.519 What I could tell you is in nineteen ninety five, 1:38:47.680 --> 1:38:50.240 David Bowie said to me, watch out for this guy. 1:38:50.320 --> 1:38:54.080 He's going to be the one, and you ended up. 1:38:54.000 --> 1:38:56.479 Working with him on the Social Network soundtrack, which was 1:38:56.560 --> 1:38:57.719 his first big success. 1:38:58.800 --> 1:39:02.920 I think gone girl, I think I remember. And there 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:06.360 was Watchmen, which was an eight part series on HBO. 1:39:07.080 --> 1:39:10.040 He would always call me for anything he couldn't play 1:39:10.080 --> 1:39:13.080 because he plays the piano, right, but anything that he wanted, 1:39:13.160 --> 1:39:18.120 something a little fancier. But I don't know if I 1:39:18.200 --> 1:39:21.680 did Social Networks to say I did that on Wikipedia, 1:39:21.720 --> 1:39:22.080 I don't know. 1:39:22.360 --> 1:39:25.160 Twenty ten, Okay, how do you get hooked up with 1:39:25.320 --> 1:39:28.800 the Dillinger escape player? I have seen that act. 1:39:30.720 --> 1:39:35.160 Those guys were on the same trend show and they 1:39:35.200 --> 1:39:37.840 were wilder than nine ers now. They were hanging from 1:39:37.880 --> 1:39:42.240 the speakers. Well maybe that's where I saw them. Okay, okay, 1:39:42.560 --> 1:39:44.479 I was on that show and that's where they heard me. 1:39:44.800 --> 1:39:47.640 And they thought, oh, this motherfucker is as crazy as 1:39:47.720 --> 1:39:50.080 us in a different way. So they called me to 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:52.280 play on that. It was so much fun, and the 1:39:52.360 --> 1:39:55.040 Stinger was actually directing me. It was a hard song. 1:39:55.120 --> 1:39:57.640 It was in hard meters and I had a lot 1:39:57.720 --> 1:40:00.799 of fun. It was just one of these little magic moments. 1:40:00.880 --> 1:40:02.920 You meet somebody in the elevator and you connect, but 1:40:03.000 --> 1:40:05.080 you never see him again, you know, And then what 1:40:05.160 --> 1:40:11.120 about pretty reckless? When I was doing all these COVID 1:40:11.240 --> 1:40:16.479 things through streaming, I had every singer who loved David 1:40:16.560 --> 1:40:19.360 Stingwood made from Adam Lambert to Boy George and Duran 1:40:19.479 --> 1:40:22.840 Durant to Joe Elliot, and she was one of them. 1:40:22.920 --> 1:40:26.439 She said, let's do a quickstand, so we met on that. 1:40:26.840 --> 1:40:30.680 I mean, I'm pretty lucky because over those years there 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:33.960 must have been one hundred Stoners. The only ones who 1:40:34.080 --> 1:40:38.080 came anywhere close to David when they worked with me were. 1:40:38.000 --> 1:40:41.880 Steel and Sting. When did you work with Sting. 1:40:43.200 --> 1:40:46.880 At the Wilton? One of those shows, he did Lazarus 1:40:46.960 --> 1:40:49.840 in Blackstar, which two of the songs from that last album, 1:40:50.280 --> 1:40:53.920 and it was breathtaking what he did. And they weren't 1:40:54.000 --> 1:40:56.960 friends or connected, but the love was still there. 1:40:58.080 --> 1:41:01.280 Okay, if one does a little research about you online, 1:41:01.920 --> 1:41:05.200 they find for a while you were remember of scientology. 1:41:05.439 --> 1:41:06.240 Tell me about that. 1:41:07.360 --> 1:41:10.759 Chick Korea turned me on to scientology in nineteen seventy 1:41:11.840 --> 1:41:15.479 and something didn't feel kosher, but I respected him, so 1:41:15.600 --> 1:41:19.599 I thought maybe he said there's some good communication skills 1:41:19.640 --> 1:41:21.599 and bloody blah blah blah. So I did it from 1:41:21.680 --> 1:41:25.560 seventy to eighty two. But I couldn't take the structure 1:41:25.760 --> 1:41:28.479 and the hierarchy. It just wasn't who I was. 1:41:28.880 --> 1:41:29.439 So I left. 1:41:29.680 --> 1:41:32.639 But Stanley, at the time, my wife was managing chick 1:41:32.680 --> 1:41:36.360 Corea and she fired him and he disconnected from me, 1:41:36.720 --> 1:41:38.880 and I never saw him again to the day he died. 1:41:38.960 --> 1:41:41.280 But yet he had been the godfather of my kids 1:41:41.920 --> 1:41:45.160 and who were best friends, and we played shows together, 1:41:45.240 --> 1:41:47.799 him on synthesized me on piano and this kind of stuff, 1:41:48.439 --> 1:41:53.519 and we went to Israel together in Japan. But that's 1:41:54.760 --> 1:42:01.000 what occult mentality can do to people. And I guess 1:42:01.040 --> 1:42:06.400 I had a vulnerability and I had the ability to 1:42:06.520 --> 1:42:10.760 find what's right in things, but there were things that 1:42:11.000 --> 1:42:13.960 just didn't feel right. So I had to leave, and 1:42:14.080 --> 1:42:16.479 I left. And so when I left, I had no 1:42:16.600 --> 1:42:19.600 friends because everyone in the Church of Scientology canceled by me, 1:42:19.720 --> 1:42:23.439 and I was like a heretic. And then everyone wasn't 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:26.280 a scientologist still thought I was in scientology. So I 1:42:26.360 --> 1:42:29.280 had a lonely, lonely ten years. But that's when I 1:42:29.400 --> 1:42:31.720 found a lot of my own classical music. I had 1:42:31.760 --> 1:42:35.160 a movement of music that I put together in the nineties. 1:42:35.280 --> 1:42:36.040 And I still do it. 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:39.160 It's called now music, and I used the concept of 1:42:39.280 --> 1:42:41.280 improv that we do in jazz, but I did it 1:42:41.479 --> 1:42:43.720 in classical, so I could sit at the piano and 1:42:43.760 --> 1:42:48.520 improvise a sonata and it sounds written. But I developed 1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:51.960 it over thousands of pieces. I actually have over five 1:42:52.040 --> 1:42:54.880 thousand pieces of music i'd written. Had I written that 1:42:54.920 --> 1:42:57.240 out by hand, it would take three hundred years, but 1:42:57.360 --> 1:42:59.439 it would just come. I would sit there and all 1:42:59.479 --> 1:43:15.720 of a sudden, I mean, I could do this ten 1:43:15.840 --> 1:43:19.120 thousand years and not stuff moments. There's a bathroom nearby 1:43:19.240 --> 1:43:22.400 and some food, so that's still. I developed a lot 1:43:22.439 --> 1:43:24.479 of music that way, and I have a copyist who 1:43:24.600 --> 1:43:27.479 not tates it all. I don't play them. I do 1:43:27.640 --> 1:43:31.120 them once and give them to classical piatus who can't improvise. 1:43:31.600 --> 1:43:35.240 So just like there was Baroque music, Renaissance music, classical 1:43:35.439 --> 1:43:38.880 romantic minimalists, this is called now music. But I've been 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:41.240 doing it for thirty years and nobody knows about it, 1:43:41.320 --> 1:43:44.679 because they'll take another one hundred and fifty years before 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:47.439 my music was discovered. Because people are happy that I 1:43:47.479 --> 1:43:49.559 did a lot understanding God bless them, you know, I'm 1:43:49.600 --> 1:43:52.400 not gonna reject that and say it's below makers. I 1:43:52.520 --> 1:43:57.040 write symphonies and this bullshit. You know, I love people, 1:43:57.160 --> 1:44:02.400 I love music, and I love creating. With people, magic happens. 1:44:02.840 --> 1:44:05.960 It's that old saying when tool more gathered in my 1:44:06.120 --> 1:44:10.120 name and something magic happens. When you're by yourself, it's fine, 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:13.479 you get with somebody. It's something with Brandy Carlin last 1:44:13.560 --> 1:44:17.599 month song and I played the simplest piano possibly play, 1:44:17.840 --> 1:44:21.040 and I loved it, you know. So you know, I 1:44:21.120 --> 1:44:25.040 get the strangest calls. Just when everything is falling apart, 1:44:25.280 --> 1:44:29.600 I get a call, okay, just to go back to scientology. 1:44:29.800 --> 1:44:35.479 Was there anything positive about that experience. I liked some 1:44:35.640 --> 1:44:39.160 of the communication skills where you learn to listen, where 1:44:39.160 --> 1:44:41.840 you learn to ask the right questions. They had a 1:44:41.920 --> 1:44:45.200 drug program, not as good as AA, but I helped 1:44:45.240 --> 1:44:47.519 a few people get off drugs who were heroin addicts 1:44:47.600 --> 1:44:52.000 that worked. There was some processing where you could remove 1:44:52.120 --> 1:44:56.000 some traumatic incidents. But for the most part, I'm not 1:44:56.120 --> 1:45:00.600 a person that works well within structure or hierarchy, and 1:45:00.840 --> 1:45:03.720 I'm not just kind of a free spirit. So I 1:45:03.840 --> 1:45:06.920 knew even in nineteen seventy the day would come, I'd 1:45:07.000 --> 1:45:10.320 have to leave. But it took me a little longer 1:45:10.360 --> 1:45:13.280 than it should have. But Chick stayed to the day died, 1:45:13.680 --> 1:45:19.080 died a travolter and Tom Cruise, So there's something that's there, 1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:23.519 but it didn't I needed my freedom. I was finding 1:45:23.640 --> 1:45:26.200 I was giving my power away to l Ron Hudbrid 1:45:26.240 --> 1:45:27.439 instead of to myself. 1:45:28.160 --> 1:45:32.560 That's not good. And when you went to leave, to 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:38.200 what degree was that process difficult in terms of them 1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:43.639 forget the emotional decision to leave. You know, from the outside, 1:45:43.680 --> 1:45:45.320 they don't seem to like people leaving. 1:45:46.400 --> 1:45:49.479 Oh, forget about it, you know. And because I was 1:45:49.520 --> 1:45:54.120 a celebrity and I had played many scientology organizations around 1:45:54.160 --> 1:45:57.000 the world, this was a shock. So they for ten years, 1:45:57.040 --> 1:45:59.200 I got a call every week trying to get me 1:45:59.360 --> 1:46:01.639 back in and I never did. 1:46:03.880 --> 1:46:06.720 Okay, But other than the calls, did they haunt you 1:46:06.880 --> 1:46:09.639 me some stories they say they come to the house, etc. 1:46:10.080 --> 1:46:11.440 Did you have those experiences? 1:46:11.520 --> 1:46:14.880 I had one or two of those. They didn't want 1:46:14.920 --> 1:46:18.320 to mess with me because I have a big mouth 1:46:18.400 --> 1:46:21.439 and I go to the press. But so and also 1:46:22.600 --> 1:46:25.479 the people who were in certain positions who would be 1:46:25.640 --> 1:46:29.040 nasty to others like you would describe me. They liked me, 1:46:29.240 --> 1:46:33.080 and they they just thought I was ignorant and misinformed, 1:46:33.200 --> 1:46:35.880 or somebody was in my ear. They didn't know that 1:46:36.439 --> 1:46:39.080 I smelled bullshit. You know, I have a bullshit to 1:46:39.160 --> 1:46:43.080 Tepta somewhere in my brain. Did you say your wife 1:46:43.320 --> 1:46:46.960 was managing Chick COREA, Yeah, and she really put she 1:46:47.040 --> 1:46:50.559 put return to forever back when they couldn't whoa wait, wait. 1:46:50.439 --> 1:46:54.280 Wait you marry this girl? She's from the bungalow colony? 1:46:54.600 --> 1:46:56.000 How did she become a manager? 1:46:57.400 --> 1:46:59.760 Chick came up to me in nineteen seventy nineties, said, 1:46:59.800 --> 1:47:04.400 my something about Susan that she knows to know the business, 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:07.560 but I think she could be a good manager for me. 1:47:08.120 --> 1:47:10.760 Can you will you allow that? And I said yeah? 1:47:11.760 --> 1:47:14.920 And she was great, but she knew nothing. But she's bright, 1:47:15.040 --> 1:47:18.400 she's smart, she's lovely, she's warm, and she knows how 1:47:18.439 --> 1:47:20.560 to talk to people. But she told me just the 1:47:20.640 --> 1:47:23.639 other day, she go all these meetings with my Worston 1:47:23.720 --> 1:47:27.120 and all these cool people and and she just wouldn't 1:47:27.120 --> 1:47:29.680 say a word. So they thought she was like this 1:47:30.560 --> 1:47:34.120 silent genius. But she was just trying to learn the business. 1:47:34.439 --> 1:47:37.280 She took a few classes at UCLA, and she did 1:47:37.320 --> 1:47:39.720 great things for your because returned to forever. They were 1:47:39.800 --> 1:47:42.360 fighting at that time, and they were offered like a 1:47:42.439 --> 1:47:44.960 million dollars a guide to go on this tour for 1:47:45.000 --> 1:47:47.519 a few months. She got them together, so she used 1:47:47.600 --> 1:47:52.840 some of her skills and all was good until I 1:47:52.960 --> 1:47:56.080 left the church. Chick wanted her to divorce me. Go 1:47:56.280 --> 1:48:00.200 think about that. Of course she was loyal. And just 1:48:00.280 --> 1:48:02.760 to be clear, you joined the church. Did she join 1:48:02.920 --> 1:48:03.400 her church? 1:48:04.040 --> 1:48:06.280 She didn't want to, but she thought she would lose 1:48:06.320 --> 1:48:08.200 her marriage if she didn't join with me. 1:48:08.560 --> 1:48:12.880 She never liked it. So how long did she manage Chick? 1:48:14.320 --> 1:48:18.000 For maybe three years? And she had any other music 1:48:18.120 --> 1:48:19.040 business adventures. 1:48:19.680 --> 1:48:23.640 She did Billy Chiles, who was a great pianist and composer, 1:48:24.120 --> 1:48:26.920 and then she did film composers for a few years. 1:48:27.200 --> 1:48:29.799 And for the most part, she prefers being a grandma, 1:48:30.280 --> 1:48:33.240 and she keeps an eye on my ship. But she 1:48:33.400 --> 1:48:35.679 doesn't want to. She hates the business, but she will 1:48:35.720 --> 1:48:38.560 give me advice when I do some stupid shit, you 1:48:38.640 --> 1:48:41.160 know which, Yeah, I'll take that gig and I'll be 1:48:41.240 --> 1:48:44.320 away three months and make forty dollars. Well think about that, 1:48:44.520 --> 1:48:47.560 But about your two year old grandkids. You know that 1:48:47.720 --> 1:48:50.760 kind of shit, you know, normal women thing. 1:48:51.439 --> 1:48:54.080 Okay, when we were talking about setting this up, you 1:48:54.200 --> 1:48:58.320 were in Europe. How much do you work now outside 1:48:58.360 --> 1:49:02.960 the home and you know, paid gigs? How much am 1:49:02.960 --> 1:49:05.000 I out of the country versus no, no, no, How 1:49:05.120 --> 1:49:06.320 much are you playing gigs? 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:12.840 Maybe fifty a year? Fifty shows solo piano? 1:49:13.840 --> 1:49:16.599 Yeah, what kind of shows? And who gets you these gigs? 1:49:18.920 --> 1:49:22.760 Solo piano gigs are pretty easy promoters because there's no 1:49:22.880 --> 1:49:25.400 fuss nor must and I show up and I love 1:49:25.479 --> 1:49:28.000 playing solo piano. I've done it in Israel. It tour 1:49:28.120 --> 1:49:32.240 through Israel in different places. Sometimes my jazz trio. That's easy. 1:49:32.400 --> 1:49:36.240 Sometimes a stinger and pianist. I work with Jane Oliver. 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:39.519 What a long time ago. She was a neighbor in Brooklyn. 1:49:39.560 --> 1:49:42.000 Her name was Janie Cohne. She's the one who signing 1:49:42.040 --> 1:49:46.000 something enchanted evening. Barber streis In and her were both 1:49:46.080 --> 1:49:49.040 on Colombia and she told Colombia either she goes or 1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:51.880 I go. So that fucked her career up. They let 1:49:52.000 --> 1:49:56.880 go of Jane, who work with her studio work would 1:49:56.880 --> 1:50:00.400 pop in again. The students were consistent. Just I was 1:50:00.400 --> 1:50:03.559 playing with symphony orchestra. I actually did an orchestra arrangement 1:50:03.640 --> 1:50:06.719 of Aladdin saying which I wanted to bring something fresh, 1:50:07.160 --> 1:50:09.280 and I had a sixty piece of orchestra and I 1:50:09.439 --> 1:50:12.080 played and there was some Bowie alumni. Then I went 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.680 to London played with another rock band, and I went 1:50:14.720 --> 1:50:16.880 to New York work with Judith Hill, who used to 1:50:16.960 --> 1:50:20.479 work with Prince and Michael Jackson, very good singer, and 1:50:20.800 --> 1:50:26.519 we would someone producer was doing reimaginations of Pink Floyd 1:50:27.479 --> 1:50:32.320 and interesting projects. I get these things out of nowhere. 1:50:32.840 --> 1:50:36.320 I'll come home and the phone rings or an email. 1:50:44.240 --> 1:50:47.439 Okay, those are the projects. If someone is booking you 1:50:48.320 --> 1:50:51.040 or your jazz trio. Do you have an agent who's 1:50:51.040 --> 1:50:52.280 getting these gigs. 1:50:52.960 --> 1:50:55.760 I used to back in the day. No, Now they 1:50:55.880 --> 1:50:58.760 just call on I deal with it. Bowie told me 1:50:58.840 --> 1:51:01.679 something funny, he said, London told me this. He said, 1:51:02.320 --> 1:51:04.920 don't have a manager, but have the best pr god, 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:07.679 best lawyer, best account and blah blah blah. I don't 1:51:07.720 --> 1:51:10.160 know that that's totally true, because he had managers. And 1:51:10.280 --> 1:51:11.960 you know as well as I know that the accent 1:51:12.120 --> 1:51:12.960 made it needed great. 1:51:13.280 --> 1:51:14.560 So I never made it. 1:51:14.680 --> 1:51:18.960 I'm just underground. You know, I'm the secret source when 1:51:19.000 --> 1:51:21.719 someone needs some help, you know, whether it's Saint Vincent 1:51:21.840 --> 1:51:24.879 on her album. I played on some of these people's 1:51:24.960 --> 1:51:27.679 first albums and then they launched, and well, fuck Mike, 1:51:27.800 --> 1:51:29.160 you know he got. 1:51:29.080 --> 1:51:35.639 It's going okay. Someone calls said, Mike, yeah, I want 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:40.360 you to do something, but you're doing something else. You're committed. 1:51:41.240 --> 1:51:44.120 Who do you tell him to call? They can't get you. 1:51:44.920 --> 1:51:50.360 Every time I've done that, it's backfire, really terribly. Not 1:51:50.520 --> 1:51:54.160 because who I sent wasn't proficient, But that's the difference. 1:51:55.360 --> 1:51:57.960 And you know better than me, or as well as 1:51:58.040 --> 1:52:03.479 I do, that are and technical expertise in virtuosity two 1:52:03.560 --> 1:52:06.839 different things. I'm blessed to have both because I practiced 1:52:06.840 --> 1:52:11.080 one hundred and fifty thousand hours and still practicing. And 1:52:11.400 --> 1:52:15.080 any time in this compensation that I could move my fingers, 1:52:15.320 --> 1:52:17.800 I was happy. You know, that's my happy place. 1:52:18.320 --> 1:52:23.559 So you know, So why exactly did these circumstances backfire? 1:52:26.880 --> 1:52:30.120 Which ones? Do you mean? Will you recommend somebody when 1:52:30.160 --> 1:52:31.400 you're unavailable? Ah? 1:52:31.520 --> 1:52:34.400 I did it. I did it with a great clarinetis 1:52:34.520 --> 1:52:37.080 Eddie Daniels. And I wrote a piece of music and 1:52:37.240 --> 1:52:39.559 I sent this pianist. I got a call to work 1:52:39.640 --> 1:52:42.640 with the Smashing Pumpkins ninety miles down the road, and 1:52:42.720 --> 1:52:46.600 this is some esoteric classical piece I wrote for the 1:52:46.720 --> 1:52:49.320 three best clarinet plays in the world, one with the net, 1:52:49.400 --> 1:52:52.640 one with the Chicago Symphony, and one with la and 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:55.200 they asked me to write a piece for three clarinets 1:52:55.240 --> 1:52:58.920 and pianum. So I gave the music to this. The 1:52:58.960 --> 1:53:03.240 pianists retorted he was great, but he didn't have my feel, 1:53:03.520 --> 1:53:07.280 and they it ruined him because they made fun of him, 1:53:07.520 --> 1:53:09.320 and it ruined me my reputation. 1:53:09.520 --> 1:53:11.720 They never called me again, So I don't do that. 1:53:12.600 --> 1:53:16.640 If someone wants something that I know somebody could do, 1:53:16.960 --> 1:53:20.160 like you know, a piano teacher. But even there people 1:53:20.320 --> 1:53:23.840 end up disappointed because my thing is thought very specific, 1:53:24.160 --> 1:53:27.960 and if somebody does play like me, and there are 1:53:28.040 --> 1:53:32.080 many imitators, it doesn't have the same you know vibe, 1:53:32.200 --> 1:53:34.720 you know, because it's this karaoke. 1:53:34.960 --> 1:53:39.080 Okay, if we use a different instrument. We talk about guitarists. 1:53:39.080 --> 1:53:42.400 People debate the best guitarists I have, but I think 1:53:42.439 --> 1:53:45.640 it's Jeff Beck that's not relevant. But there's Jeff Beg, 1:53:45.840 --> 1:53:49.120 Jimmy Hendrakes, Eric Clapped and Jimmy Peach. Then there are 1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:52.040 people who were stylists who would never go on record 1:53:52.080 --> 1:53:56.439 that they're the best guitarist, Keith Richards, Pete Towns In etc. 1:53:57.360 --> 1:53:58.680 Where do you put yourself? 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:02.719 I'm look I played with Jeff Beck with Stanley Clark 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:05.400 in nineteen seventy nine, so I was at his house 1:54:06.000 --> 1:54:09.880 in Tunbridge Wells and if he wasn't fixing his cars, 1:54:10.160 --> 1:54:13.960 the guitar was always in his hand. So we shared 1:54:14.320 --> 1:54:17.200 that love and Simon Phillips was the drummer and we 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:20.080 had like three or four gigs. You know, that's the 1:54:20.160 --> 1:54:22.519 funny world, the jazz world. And he wanted to be 1:54:22.680 --> 1:54:25.719 with jazz players. He wasn't at my level jazz wise, 1:54:25.920 --> 1:54:28.800 but he was Jeff Beck, and he imagined. He sat 1:54:28.880 --> 1:54:31.320 in with us on one of the last Bowie shows 1:54:31.400 --> 1:54:35.320 with the Spiders, and him and Mick Ronson they played together. 1:54:35.680 --> 1:54:37.160 It was unbelievable. 1:54:37.360 --> 1:54:42.480 So I'm with you on Jeff. And you know, Paco 1:54:42.640 --> 1:54:45.200 di la Cheer is one of my favorites. He died 1:54:45.520 --> 1:54:50.000 at sixty ten years ago. Amazing flamenco player, but he 1:54:50.440 --> 1:54:54.760 moved in some jazz circles and with John McLoughlin, Al 1:54:54.840 --> 1:55:00.160 Demiola and different people. But how about piano players you 1:55:00.360 --> 1:55:01.320 in the hierarchy? 1:55:02.080 --> 1:55:02.880 I have no idea. 1:55:03.120 --> 1:55:06.440 I can tell you my favorites. I love Nicky Hopkins, 1:55:06.520 --> 1:55:09.680 who actually gave some Kano lessons too, because he wanted 1:55:09.920 --> 1:55:13.000 to pick my brain about more advanced harmony. 1:55:13.320 --> 1:55:16.680 But I loved his Well, well, you gave piano lessons 1:55:16.720 --> 1:55:21.920 to Nicky Hopkins. I'll give you one if you want. Hey, okay, 1:55:22.440 --> 1:55:30.400 how did you know Nicky Hopkins? The Blue and you 1:55:30.440 --> 1:55:33.200 know he died at a young age. What can you 1:55:33.280 --> 1:55:34.160 tell us about him? 1:55:34.560 --> 1:55:39.360 Sweetheart? Nice documentary on him. Now, yeah, I've seen I 1:55:39.440 --> 1:55:43.200 would have preferred his playing, but that's that bullshit world, 1:55:43.320 --> 1:55:46.960 you know, with the rights. But look at his credits. 1:55:46.960 --> 1:55:51.120 They're ridiculous. So Angie and this he I asked him 1:55:51.160 --> 1:55:53.280 in the lesson that I was being paid for to 1:55:53.360 --> 1:55:55.720 teach him jazz and this and that. How do you 1:55:55.800 --> 1:55:56.680 put those songs? 1:55:56.760 --> 1:55:57.839 Together? So simple? 1:55:58.880 --> 1:56:01.800 I have a very funny story with Nicky Hopkins. I 1:56:01.920 --> 1:56:06.120 got called by a famous producer and I'll remember his 1:56:06.240 --> 1:56:09.480 name maybe, but anyway, I'm in the studio he's producing 1:56:09.640 --> 1:56:12.160 this pop singer and he calls me he said, well, 1:56:12.160 --> 1:56:14.360 I want you to play like that Bowie stuff on 1:56:14.520 --> 1:56:16.720 these songs, and that's a pop song and I'm trying 1:56:16.760 --> 1:56:19.040 to do that and it's wrong and it's wrong. So 1:56:19.200 --> 1:56:23.680 he micro manages me through every bar and the piece 1:56:23.840 --> 1:56:24.880 is done in two hours. 1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:25.640 I hated it. 1:56:26.960 --> 1:56:29.240 I love where I played, but I hated the process. 1:56:29.960 --> 1:56:32.560 And I said, you know, that sounds like a friend 1:56:32.560 --> 1:56:35.200 of mine. That sounds like Nicki Hopkins, And he said, oh, 1:56:35.720 --> 1:56:41.200 that's who I meant to hire. Oh god, because I'm 1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:43.960 with Bowie, he's with the rolling song, He's we beatles. 1:56:44.000 --> 1:56:48.440 I'm not el So you know, I don't know how 1:56:48.480 --> 1:56:51.400 that works. But it was hilarious and pathetic, you know. 1:56:51.960 --> 1:56:56.400 But Nicki was special Leon, Oh my god, Leon Russell, 1:56:57.800 --> 1:57:06.680 and I watched them every night. Oh yeah, I mean 1:57:07.720 --> 1:57:09.840 when I got cool to play in my first rock band, 1:57:10.040 --> 1:57:12.840 I listened to him and Doctor John for one full 1:57:12.920 --> 1:57:15.120 day straight and I was straight for the rest of 1:57:15.320 --> 1:57:19.120 my life. So those guys. I love Billy Joel, I 1:57:19.200 --> 1:57:23.760 love Elton. None of them are pianist the way I am, 1:57:24.160 --> 1:57:26.760 but they don't have to be. I love guys. I 1:57:26.920 --> 1:57:29.640 like the way Bowie plays piano, and Billy Corgan and Trent. 1:57:30.440 --> 1:57:32.640 Some of the things they play are much deeper than 1:57:32.720 --> 1:57:35.560 what I play. But I have finance, I have touch, 1:57:35.880 --> 1:57:38.880 I have some people just like some of the fancy shit. 1:57:38.960 --> 1:57:41.800 But these days, as I said, I'm playing simpler than ever. 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:46.520 Okay, So in the runway you have left, which could 1:57:46.560 --> 1:57:51.440 be one minute or twenty years, any specific goals or 1:57:51.640 --> 1:57:54.880 you just feeling you know it's going like it's going 1:57:54.960 --> 1:57:57.480 away for the phone to ring. I'll practice, I'll write 1:57:57.520 --> 1:58:00.480 some jazz stuff. You know. 1:58:01.480 --> 1:58:06.000 This might sound insane, but I considered his first seventy 1:58:06.080 --> 1:58:10.320 years my apprenticeship. So I'm just beginning my career because 1:58:10.360 --> 1:58:12.640 all I did is support all these other motherfucker's my 1:58:12.720 --> 1:58:13.240 whole life. 1:58:13.960 --> 1:58:15.160 It's my turn, and. 1:58:15.280 --> 1:58:18.040 Funny things are happening now, you know. I mean to 1:58:18.160 --> 1:58:20.560 get called to Dublin to play with a symphony orchestra 1:58:20.640 --> 1:58:22.400 and make good money, and then a rock band, and 1:58:22.880 --> 1:58:26.000 I'm getting paid thousands and thousands because they think I'm 1:58:26.040 --> 1:58:27.680 gonna die, and they might be right. 1:58:30.560 --> 1:58:31.240 I never forget. 1:58:31.280 --> 1:58:33.320 I was playing the Blue Notes with Stanley Clark in 1:58:33.360 --> 1:58:36.880 the nineties and he said, Mike, just wait till our 1:58:37.080 --> 1:58:40.280 seventies would go into legacy. Mode said, what are you 1:58:40.360 --> 1:58:43.040 talking about? He said, they'll bust your chops now, but 1:58:43.080 --> 1:58:45.120 as soon as they know you're gonna die, they treat 1:58:45.160 --> 1:58:48.040 you much differently. You know, poor guy, you have a cane, 1:58:48.080 --> 1:58:50.200 you're walking in a wheelchair. You'ren't gonna get a hard 1:58:50.200 --> 1:58:52.400 at time because look, let's face that, all all friends 1:58:52.480 --> 1:58:56.560 they're going. My dad's biggest loss was every day call 1:58:56.680 --> 1:58:59.839 me and said another friend died. That's what he suffered 1:58:59.840 --> 1:59:02.120 with in his last few years of his life. And 1:59:02.240 --> 1:59:05.400 I'm seeing that now, aside from all musicians I lost 1:59:05.440 --> 1:59:10.200 who committed suicidal overdose, which are hundreds just the old 1:59:10.320 --> 1:59:13.880 age now. And thank god, I'm in good shape. 1:59:13.920 --> 1:59:15.360 But who knows. 1:59:15.600 --> 1:59:18.840 You know, nobody knows how old was your father when 1:59:18.880 --> 1:59:23.200 he died eighty nine. But he didn't have to die. 1:59:23.320 --> 1:59:25.520 He had an ulcer and they could have fixed it. 1:59:25.640 --> 1:59:28.400 He said, No, he knew I was struggling. He wanted 1:59:28.440 --> 1:59:32.280 me to have whatever money he had left, so he died. 1:59:32.320 --> 1:59:33.920 He bled to death in the middle of the night 1:59:33.960 --> 1:59:36.240 in the hospital. He wouldn't sign the paper. He would 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:38.200 have been he could, he would have lift to one hundred. 1:59:38.240 --> 1:59:41.600 He had great genes. Well, hopefully you have those genes too. 1:59:42.920 --> 1:59:43.800 Somebody told me. 1:59:44.040 --> 1:59:46.600 I don't know, but somebody said to me, as long 1:59:46.680 --> 1:59:49.160 as you have a purpose in doing what you love 1:59:49.560 --> 1:59:53.160 to be okay, when that's over, you'll probably split. And 1:59:53.480 --> 1:59:57.040 I'm accepting that. I mean, I know the limitations of 1:59:57.120 --> 1:59:59.880 a body, but I also know I feel good when 2:00:00.000 --> 2:00:02.240 I'm playing, and I don't feel so good when i'm not. 2:00:03.120 --> 2:00:06.920 Okay, you're not on the road, you're at home. You 2:00:07.120 --> 2:00:09.120 play every day, and how long you play for. 2:00:11.040 --> 2:00:13.560 In the old days it was eight hours, four hours, 2:00:13.880 --> 2:00:18.120 two hours. Now, I just compose, improvise, arrange, and I 2:00:18.280 --> 2:00:21.680 do sessions right where I am for hundreds of artists 2:00:21.840 --> 2:00:24.440 known and unknown, because people can't afford to find me 2:00:24.520 --> 2:00:26.880 here and there. Some do, but they send me a 2:00:27.000 --> 2:00:29.040 track and I just put piano on it, and they'll 2:00:29.160 --> 2:00:30.840 send me a couple of grand and it takes me 2:00:30.920 --> 2:00:36.400 an hour. So it's good. I'm fine. I feel bad 2:00:36.480 --> 2:00:38.720 for other people, I don't feel bad for me. I'm 2:00:39.440 --> 2:00:42.760 one of the lucky ones that snuck through. And I 2:00:42.880 --> 2:00:43.800 don't know how. 2:00:44.040 --> 2:00:46.320 I never did a day game other than the piano. 2:00:46.600 --> 2:00:50.400 I wouldn't know how to do anything. Well. We're lucky 2:00:50.520 --> 2:00:52.800 to have heard your story, Mike, I want to thank 2:00:52.840 --> 2:00:55.480 you so much for taking this time with my audience. 2:00:56.640 --> 2:00:59.160 I love your audience, I love your letter, I love 2:00:59.240 --> 2:01:01.800 this interview. Been waiting for it for five years because 2:01:01.840 --> 2:01:04.160 I know you asked cool questions and it's been a 2:01:04.200 --> 2:01:07.800 pleasure being with you. You got me smiling. 2:01:08.880 --> 2:01:11.880 That's all that matters. If you want to watch something 2:01:12.000 --> 2:01:15.280 really stupid, some crazy director from London who used to 2:01:15.320 --> 2:01:18.000 make sci fi and movies travel following me around for 2:01:18.000 --> 2:01:22.000 a few years, and there's this documentary called Mike Carson 2:01:22.040 --> 2:01:25.400 and his eighty eight Friends, because there's eighty eight and 2:01:25.520 --> 2:01:27.240 he did a documentary and you can see it on 2:01:27.320 --> 2:01:31.240 Amazon and it's it's interesting. It's not a great documentary 2:01:31.720 --> 2:01:34.480 and it captures thirty percent of me, but another part 2:01:34.560 --> 2:01:37.160 that we didn't discuss, so that might be fun. 2:01:37.240 --> 2:01:42.400 Food for thought for next time. Until next time, This 2:01:42.600 --> 2:01:43.800 is Bob Left SAIDs