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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, which

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Speaker 2: is a weekly podcast, a twice weekly podcast. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how it's a podcast, And I'm your host, Maria Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and we talked about cool people who Did Cool Stuff

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Speaker 2: on the podcast that's named that. But my guest is

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Speaker 2: Chelsea Weber Smith, who's host of a different podcast, American Hysteria.

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing so good and I'm just so excited to

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Speaker 3: be here and hear whatever you got for me today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's always fun because people, I think know that

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Speaker 2: I don't tell people what they're gonna learn about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a complete mystery, so thrilling. I am on

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Speaker 3: the edge of my seat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, whereas everyone who's listening already knows what it's about

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Speaker 2: because it was in the title. They really have one

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Speaker 2: up on you. Although actually the title of this one

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Speaker 2: isn't going to mean anything to anyone. But Sophie is

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Speaker 2: our producer.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Sophie, Hi, that's what we call a podcast flex.

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Speaker 1: You're like, ooh, you want to know the topic?

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Speaker 3: Hi, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Chelsea. I'm so happy to have this combination of

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Speaker 1: humans on one pod. Does feel good.

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Speaker 3: I'm honored.

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Speaker 2: Our audio engineer is Ian and our the music was

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Speaker 2: written for us by unwoman. Hi, Unwoman. So, Chelsea, have

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Speaker 2: you ever heard of the Dill Pickle Club?

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Speaker 3: No, but I couldn't be happier to find out what

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Speaker 3: that is.

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Speaker 1: I love a dill pickle great.

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Speaker 3: Probably being a club, I mean, no, I don't like

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Speaker 3: love it that much, but I would learn about a

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Speaker 3: club that still pickles.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay. There was a club in Chicago in the

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Speaker 2: nineteen tens and nineteen twenties up until nineteen thirty three

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Speaker 2: that changed so much about culture in the city and

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Speaker 2: therefore the country. And it was founded and run by

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Speaker 2: a bunch of revolutionaries and the main guy who ran

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Speaker 2: it was a syndicalist bomber. Okay, all right, so much

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Speaker 2: culture comes from it. Okay, perfect, This is the kind

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Speaker 2: of shit I love. Yep, Yeah, cool, Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 2: that this was. The guest doesn't know what we pick,

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Speaker 2: but I try to pick something that will work for

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Speaker 2: the guest.

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Speaker 3: You did a great job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So we're going to back up first. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna talk about hoboes. I'm not going to ask

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Speaker 2: if you know anything about hoboes. I'm going to talk

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Speaker 2: about hoboes.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you know about hobos, Yeah, I know a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, Well this story will start where all

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Speaker 2: good stories start with hobos. I am not using that

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Speaker 2: word pejoratively. Some people do these days use it pejoratively.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely am not. Have you ever heard of the

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Speaker 2: distinction between hoboes, tramps, and bums.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have, and I'm not entirely sure I would

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Speaker 3: be able to make the distinction. But let's see, is

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Speaker 3: a hobo someone who is by choice traveling.

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Speaker 2: That's part of it, but that's not the thing that

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Speaker 2: makes it right.

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Speaker 3: You tell me, you tell me, okay.

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Speaker 2: I actually I first learned this when I was a

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Speaker 2: streak kid and a train hopper, until I was hanging

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Speaker 2: out with hobos and tramps and bums. So there's a

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Speaker 2: hobo travels and is willing to work. And these definitions

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Speaker 2: go back at least as far back as the nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenties and probably way before then. So a hobo travels

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Speaker 2: and is willing to work. A tramp travels and avoids

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Speaker 2: work if possible, does like just does enough work to

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Speaker 2: not die, you know, right, And a bum neither travels

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Speaker 2: nor works, and none of these were necessarily pejoratives, although

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Speaker 2: people in one category might look down on the others,

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Speaker 2: and both hoboes and tramps probably look down on each other,

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Speaker 2: and everyone looked down on bums and.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know as it goes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's the sort of self importance hierarchy with

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Speaker 2: whatever you are is at the top.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I was a tramp probably in several senses of that

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Speaker 2: word in my early twenties.

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Speaker 3: I did have a pretty long hitchhike in career during

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Speaker 3: the summer. Yeah, so I wasn't quite I did hop

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Speaker 3: one train. I wasn't like in the community in the world,

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Speaker 3: but I do have at least some uh some of

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Speaker 3: that in my in my past.

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Speaker 2: Where's you okay? Now, everyone in the earth you want

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Speaker 2: to do that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: No, no, everyone who everyone who's hop trains talks about

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Speaker 2: like where they hopped trains to and from and it

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Speaker 2: only matters to other people trains. But where did you

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Speaker 2: have trains to it?

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Speaker 3: From Brattleborough? I want a very cool little city, uh

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Speaker 3: out to New Hampshire. I think it's is it white city?

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Speaker 3: It's white something? But yeah, it was just like an

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Speaker 3: one overnight yeah, box car opened to the sky absolutely

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Speaker 3: like a truly, you know, beautiful experience. But it was

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Speaker 3: just like my one little tourist ye, and I can't

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Speaker 3: say anything other than that, but it was a really

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Speaker 3: cool experience. And then yeah, hitchhiking a lot more.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, mine is similar. I've successfully hopped trains three times.

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Speaker 2: I spent a lot more time than that trying to

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Speaker 2: hop trains, and I've hitchhiked.

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Speaker 3: A lot, kicking it in the train yard. Yeah it's real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so no, I'm really excited. You're definitely the

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Speaker 2: right person to the one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, cool, Okay.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather was a hobo. He grew up poor in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest, and he left to go ride freight trains

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Speaker 2: and find work where he could in the Great Depression

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Speaker 2: before he wound up in the Navy in World War Two.

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Speaker 2: And so we've talked a little bit about the radical

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Speaker 2: history of hoboes and tramps on this show. Before one

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Speaker 2: week we talked about the industrial workers of the world

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Speaker 2: and their free speech fights where they mobilized the transient

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Speaker 2: workforce of the country during the first couple decades of

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Speaker 2: the twentieth century. And these were like free speech fights

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Speaker 2: basically like they'd go be organizers, and then the government

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Speaker 2: and be like, now you can't soapbox, you can't organize,

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Speaker 2: and so then they would like fill the with hobos

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Speaker 2: who would get up and you know, talk on a

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Speaker 2: soapbox and get arrested and they'd fill the jails, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it was cool. That's not what this

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Speaker 2: episode's about. Weird, even an episode about that. No one

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Speaker 2: knows the etymology of hobo, which is really I love

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Speaker 2: this shit. I love when there's an unknownnology.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: And there's a couple versions, and I'll say the version

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Speaker 2: that I think is most likely. But first there's there's

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Speaker 2: one that's like it might stand for ho boy because

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Speaker 2: they were farm hands and the used hose. It might

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Speaker 2: have been railroads slang for homeward bound. I actually think

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Speaker 2: that one has some it rings a little bit true,

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Speaker 2: this kind of shit that fucking train riders love doing this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: The most convincing etymology to me is that it's short

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Speaker 2: for homeless bohemian Okay, yeah, bohemian being I've always really

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Speaker 2: hated this word, but it's going to be such an

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Speaker 2: important part of what we're talking about today. Bohemian being

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Speaker 2: a sort of old fashion but very long lived slang

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Speaker 2: for a countercultural person. Right, And I've hated it because

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Speaker 2: it's a Western European thing and it descends from the

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Speaker 2: exoticization of Romani folks, and Bohemia is a specific place.

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Speaker 2: It's a precursor of the Czech Republic, but it's specifically

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Speaker 2: like not even oh, you're from the Czech Republic, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you're acting like a Romani person, you're traveling blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: blah blah. All these literary types in France early eight

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century were like, Wow, we're just like the Romani

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Speaker 2: people because we live outside of society. We're bohemians.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hipsters exist in all times and cultures.

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Speaker 2: Yes, why can't they just use that word, which I

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Speaker 2: use is a pejorative.

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Speaker 3: Fixed it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So Hobo's most famously traveled by writing freight trains,

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Speaker 2: which is a crime, and it is a dangerous crime,

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Speaker 2: and anyone who's listening, I cannot in good conscience tell

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Speaker 2: you to do it unless you are taught by someone

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Speaker 2: with more experience. If you want the like train riding

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Speaker 2: tourist experience, which is a lovely one. Go with someone

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Speaker 2: who knows what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I did. So I acted responsibly, excellent

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Speaker 3: as much as one could. Yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 2: The fact that you described successfully riding a train, I

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Speaker 2: was assumed you had gone with someone.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, different time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then people just sit around and be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's a forty eight and out of fifty three, and

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Speaker 2: they like, you know, oh that's a grainer and that's

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Speaker 2: a goggle. And my brain was like, oh, you weren't

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Speaker 2: in a box car, you were't a gondolet was open

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Speaker 2: to the sky. And I'm like, fuck, I love that.

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Speaker 3: I love that trainhead, you know, I know a grainer,

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Speaker 3: Like I know that you get in.

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Speaker 1: That little hole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to get that little hole. I had such a

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Speaker 3: like cartoon initially, beauty. It was just you know, like stars,

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Speaker 3: you couldn't see anything. You got into town and you

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Speaker 3: just like the blue sky, you know. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: way too idyllic, what I deserve?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people die doing this all.

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Speaker 3: No, it's not That's what I'm saying. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: not not a typical experience probably.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And this tradition of riding trains and having fun

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Speaker 2: and dying goes back to the beginning of trains. As

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Speaker 2: soon as there was like, oh, here's a big thing

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Speaker 2: that no one's watching that goes from one place to

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Speaker 2: the other, people were like sick. That sounds like a

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Speaker 2: way to not pay. Yeah, you know, in the late

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Speaker 2: eighteen sixties, after the Civil War, you get the beginning

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Speaker 2: of hobo culture. Returning veterans became the first hobos. They

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Speaker 2: wandered the country and they would drift out west looking

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Speaker 2: for work, and it became a real big thing around

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Speaker 2: the turn of the century, and then it peaked during

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Speaker 2: the Great Depression, and it slacked off since then, but

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Speaker 2: it never quite went away. Like returning Vietnam veterans kind

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Speaker 2: of gave it new life. Crusty anarchists at the turn

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Speaker 2: of the next century gave it new life. And like

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff we talk about of all these

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Speaker 2: like mythologized radicals, we're like, we're gonna talk about all

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Speaker 2: these radicals from a hundred hundred fifty year ago, and

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Speaker 2: we're talking about hoboculture.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: The people who deserve the amazing reputation of like being

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Speaker 2: these like wandering hard workers with their own beautiful culture

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Speaker 2: are the current immigrant migrant workers who fight against depression.

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Speaker 2: But they're not white, so white people try to avoid

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Speaker 2: thinking about them so they don't get romanticized. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know, romanticization's messy, but yeah, I just want to

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Speaker 2: shout that out about who the real the people still

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Speaker 2: kind of came. Yeah, okay, hobos. There's only one labor

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Speaker 2: union with the teeth and the grit to organize hoboes,

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Speaker 2: and that was Friends of the Pod the Industrial Workers

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Speaker 2: of the World, and they started. We've talked about them

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Speaker 2: a bunch of times. I didn't write down what year

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Speaker 2: they started this time, I think is nineteen oh five.

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Speaker 2: And basically they started when a bunch of people were like, hey,

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Speaker 2: socialists and anarchists, let's get over our differences, organize all

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Speaker 2: workers of the world together. All the while we will

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Speaker 2: actively fight against the racism, nativism, and sexism that the

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Speaker 2: labor movement has way too much of in the United States,

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Speaker 2: and then we'll overthrow capitalism and make all of our

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Speaker 2: lives beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Right, And will you tell me again what year we're

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Speaker 3: in ish?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So, okay, so this started nineteen oh five? Is

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Speaker 2: this year?

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Speaker 3: Got it?

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Speaker 2: And yeah? And this union was founded by repeated friends

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Speaker 2: of the pod, like the born enslaved black anarchist Lucy

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Speaker 2: Parsons and the Irish goth socialist Mother Jones. People get

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Speaker 2: people have messaged me being like Mother Jones is a

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Speaker 2: goth a and I'm like, she literally wore black morning

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Speaker 2: dresses all the time. I don't fucking know what you want.

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Speaker 3: Like, yeah, what else is there? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: When I talk about we've always been here about like

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Speaker 2: queer people, I also am just going to go ahead

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Speaker 2: and say we've always been here about goths.

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Speaker 3: One of the like like great archetypes of psychology is

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Speaker 3: the so yeah, the person.

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Speaker 2: Is us with death but not necessarily depressed or not

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Speaker 2: any more likely to be depressed than anyone else in

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a different kind of saint, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know I was founded by these two.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure some men were involved too, but they get

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Speaker 2: enough of books of their own. Although I will say

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Speaker 2: several of our heroes this week are men, which is

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Speaker 2: very progressive of me to include men in the show.

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Speaker 2: So free, but don't worry. Two thirds of the men,

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Speaker 2: there's like three core men that we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about today, two thirds of them are mostly only famous

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Speaker 2: for being attached to their way more famous girlfriends. Cool,

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Speaker 2: and so it's like, well, what do the boys get

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Speaker 2: up to while the girls are out organizing revolution?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? What are they doing at their little topperware parties? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Through some cultural stuff. They start at a club, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we are going to start with the most complicated one. Sophie.

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Speaker 2: You're going to notice that this is the first time

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Speaker 2: this has happened on the show. Where I get excited

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Speaker 2: about this some guy and I start writing about him.

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Speaker 2: In about halfway through, I realized he was not necessarily

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Speaker 2: Oh good dad.

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Speaker 3: Did we not?

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Speaker 1: Did we not follow the Sophie rules of reading about men?

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Speaker 1: Which is a scroll to the end so you find

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Speaker 1: out if they.

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Speaker 3: Go to the controversy section of Wikipedia, Yeah, to go.

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Speaker 1: To the ashtrik session where you find out that they're

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Speaker 1: a woman abuser?

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Speaker 4: Did we?

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Speaker 1: Did we not listen to my to Sophie's rule of

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Speaker 1: reading about men?

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Speaker 2: So, okay, what's funny about this guy? Almost everything written

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Speaker 2: about him, that's true, But almost everything written about him

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Speaker 2: was written by the women in his life because they're

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Speaker 2: all more famous than him, right, And so he's actually

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Speaker 2: I'll just I'll just talk about him and we can

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Speaker 2: we can sit in moral judgment. I enjoy sitting in

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Speaker 2: a moral judgment of historical character. This is one of

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Speaker 2: my favorite pastimes. But this one's like, I'll be curious

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Speaker 2: what you all thing? Okay, so, uh you ever heard

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Speaker 2: of Emma Goldman? Yes, okay, this is Emma Goldman's boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, she had many, Yeah I know, this one

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Speaker 2: actually was like the main love of her life and

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Speaker 2: is not the assassin guy who's the main one people,

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Speaker 2: he's the artist. He is the doctor.

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Speaker 3: Okay. Didn't she have like an artist.

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Speaker 1: Sma Goldman?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, no, like okay, so lover.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, We're gonna start with a guy named Ben rightman,

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Speaker 2: he's mostly known for dating. That's true. I mean, actually,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: It could be, right right man, I'm sorry, all right,

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Speaker 1: I'll say I'm just waiting for you to tell me

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Speaker 1: what bullshit this man did.

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Speaker 2: This man is the horniest man I've ever had on

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Speaker 2: this I've ever talked about on this show. In ways, I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't have a rasputant episode yet.

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Speaker 1: He might have out walked around dispute. It's impossible.

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Speaker 2: This man was kind of a fuck boy, but actually

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Speaker 2: mostly a good person and the main thing he failed

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Speaker 2: as he was a shit father. But the main book

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Speaker 2: written about him was written by one of his daughters

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Speaker 2: and is like about his complicated relationships with women, and

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Speaker 2: actually kind of is like, well, you know, all right,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like it's a doesn't like give him

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Speaker 2: a pass, but it's like it's not as Okay, I'll

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Speaker 2: just keep going, I'll just keep talking about him.

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Speaker 3: She puts a whole like a context around Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 3: his actions well, and.

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Speaker 2: Most of his actions aren't wrong even though they like

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Speaker 2: because they're all consensual with adults who are also into

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Speaker 2: free love.

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Speaker 3: Okay, gets complicated. Yeah, I know, I know, even today,

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Ben Reitman was born in Saint Paul, Minnesota. I almost

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Speaker 2: sid same Paul Minneapolis, but it's a different place to

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Speaker 2: poor Russian Jewish immigrants. In eighteen seventy nine, when he

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Speaker 2: was one, his dad ran out on the family. Later

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Speaker 2: he was like, ah, that's where I learned it from. Whatever,

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Speaker 2: fuck you. His mom moved to the Red Light district

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Speaker 2: of Chicago. Almost every version of this voids mentioning that

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Speaker 2: his mother was a sex worker. And he grew up

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Speaker 2: in a brothel and he was now eventually he's famous

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Speaker 2: for two things. He's famous for one being called the

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Speaker 2: Hobo Doctor because he was both hobo and a doctor,

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Speaker 2: so it's a pretty legit and he's not fake in

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Speaker 2: either of them. Two, he was Emma Goldman's partner for

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Speaker 2: a long time. Emma Goldman has woven her way through

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Speaker 2: a fuck ton of our episodes, but we talked about

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Speaker 2: the most in our episode about birth control pioneers, and

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Speaker 2: she got arrested all the time for advocating that people

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Speaker 2: ought to be able to control their bodies.

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Speaker 3: So was this a prime like her primary partner that

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Speaker 3: we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: For eight years, okay, okay, and the one who kind

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Speaker 2: of left the mark, like like this was the okay,

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Speaker 2: Like she wrote about him as like her most passionate

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Speaker 2: love affair, and so Alexander Berkman, her like more famous

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Speaker 2: boyfriend who tried to kill Henry Clay Frick and like

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Speaker 2: once tried to break out a prison and stuff. Berkman

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Speaker 2: fucking hates Ben Rightman. Like this is one of the

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Speaker 2: great shit fight in fighty things of history, is how

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Speaker 2: much they hated each other. I think I Actually, I

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Speaker 2: think Ben didn't give a shit about Berkman. I think

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Speaker 2: Ben was just like, whatever, fucking doing my thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, you know, just it does sound like

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Speaker 3: things that still happen to this day in Paul in

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Speaker 3: your first situation.

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Speaker 2: Totally what anarchists getting involved in polydrama? No, go on,

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Speaker 2: It goes back a long way.

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Speaker 3: It's a rich history, a rich tradition, you can see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, That's why we're doing this is to stay

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Speaker 2: true to our roots. Oh yeah, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: roots to this that okay. Anyway, So Emma Goldman spent

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Speaker 2: decades traveling back and forth across the US advocating for workers' rights, anarchism, feminism,

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Speaker 2: free love, and all the cool stuff. At least eight

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Speaker 2: of the years that she did that, it was her

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Speaker 2: boyfriend Ben who organized those talks, handling the booking and

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Speaker 2: the pr And he also got arrested multiple times for

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Speaker 2: advocating that people ought to be able to control their

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Speaker 2: bodies and advocating birth control. He served the longest sentence

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Speaker 2: in US history for advocating for birth control. Wow, he

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Speaker 2: served six months okay for speech, you know. And there's

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Speaker 2: a third thing he could be famous for is that

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Speaker 2: there's a Martin Scorsese film based on one of his books,

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Speaker 2: which was he wrote a fake autobiography called Sister of

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Speaker 2: the Road that's like about the life on the rails,

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Speaker 2: and it was like, the protagonist is named Boxcar Bertha.

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Speaker 2: And so in nineteen seventy two, Martin Scorsese makes a

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Speaker 2: movie called Boxcar Bertha based on Sister of the Road.

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Speaker 3: Cool.

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Speaker 2: So he grew up in Chicago. Just to zoom back

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Speaker 2: to his beginning of his life. His life is not easy.

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Speaker 2: His first arrest comes early, as shit, he's caught stealing

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Speaker 2: coal from train cars. I think he's not even ten

381
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Speaker 2: when this happens. By twelve, he's out on the rails

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Speaker 2: as a tramp. That's the one every now and then

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Speaker 2: people even back then were like King of the Hobo

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Speaker 2: is my ass. You're a tramp, not a hobo.

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Speaker 3: You know there it is gatekeeping, uh huh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But unlike half the doctors of the nineteenth and

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Speaker 2: twentieth century that people like talk about, right, he actually

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Speaker 2: went to medical school. He actually has a degree.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, And.

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Speaker 2: At one point I didn't put this in the script,

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Speaker 2: but Berkman was like, fuck this guy, the other boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: and he like wrote to the university to like double

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Speaker 2: check that he had gotten a degree.

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Speaker 3: Oh so Patty, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then never forgave him for doing this.

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Speaker 3: Oh so he found out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, uh, I bet you. Alexander bergman like

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00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 2: told him, but like I was looking into you. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm on to you.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: But when he was twenty one years old the year

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Speaker 2: nineteen one hundred, he started at the College of Physicians

403
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Speaker 2: and Surgeons in Chicago. By nineteen oh four he graduated,

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Speaker 2: and he just becomes a like a free doctor being

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Speaker 2: cool as fuck. He offers services to sex workers and

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Speaker 2: hoboes and the poor and whoever needs it. And he

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Speaker 2: is primarily an STI doctor. He treats like syphilism all

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Speaker 2: this stuff, right, and his like whole thing is fighting

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Speaker 2: venereal disease. His other whole thing is he illegally performs abortions,

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Speaker 2: which is cool and you know, and he becomes a

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Speaker 2: pioneer in the field of venereal disease like treatment. He

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Speaker 2: goes on to spend his later life developing public health

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Speaker 2: around STIs and stuff like that, which is you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of putting his money where his mouth is right. Yeah, definitely,

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Speaker 2: But most of the time he's not like the most

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Speaker 2: when he's younger, he's not the most committed doctor. He

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Speaker 2: does it when he needs money or when people need help.

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Speaker 2: You know, he works when he has to. He spends

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Speaker 2: as much of his time as he can bumming around

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Speaker 2: the country. He throws down at protests. He falls in

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Speaker 2: love with new people constantly, sometimes he doesn't always fall

422
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Speaker 2: in love with them. Mostly women, but not exclusively women.

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Speaker 2: And he's horny as fuck. He's part of a culture

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Speaker 2: that espouses free love. He respects the shit out of women,

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Speaker 2: and he kind of goes back and forth across the

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Speaker 2: line between being a fuck boy to being a happy

427
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Speaker 2: and respectful queer slut. One of his many daughters, I know,

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Speaker 2: I know the road. We are all sports to walk,

429
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: and but he like, I don't know whatever. It's so

430
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Speaker 2: fascinating me. I changed my mind about how I felt

431
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 2: about him like three or four times while writing this.

432
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Speaker 2: But you know what, I've never changed my mind about

433
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Speaker 2: what's that? Actually I did. I specifically changed my mind

434
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Speaker 2: when I was like twenty, I would have hated the

435
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Speaker 2: fact that I had a radical history podcast with ads

436
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 2: in it. But I'm forty and my dog needs food, so.

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Speaker 3: Hey, you and me both, Yeah, exactly. Sophie and I

438
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 3: talked a lot about this when we met in a bar.

439
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 3: We did, yeah, big conversation, so I guess roll them.

440
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck it, here's the Mads and we are back

441
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: and we are talking about our guy. One of his

442
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: many daughters wrote a biography discussing him and his behavior.

443
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 2: How he is is this?

444
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:57,719
Speaker 3: Is this?

445
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: Is this the part? Is this the part? I'm waiting Yeah,

446
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for it.

447
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so there's not like he was not present

448
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: in his kids' lives and he was not always like

449
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 2: telling everyone what was going on. But see, see there's

450
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,479
Speaker 2: not like he's not a monster.

451
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: Okay, because we've definitely like there was. There was one time,

452
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: Chelsea where Margaret did an entire episode and then she

453
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: gets to like the fifth book she's read about this

454
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: one person, and there's like two sentences at the end

455
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: it's like, by the way, he was a fucking super

456
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: villain to his family.

457
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that is very common. Unfortunately.

458
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:37,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

459
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, no heroes, no villains.

460
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying I'm not getting the two sentence

461
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: thing that makes me not care about anything else.

462
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay.

463
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: He was not present in his kids' lives. However, that

464
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: seems to even that seems to be complicated, like the

465
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 2: the daughter who wrote the biography of No Wait one

466
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 2: of the others, a bunch of his daughters wrote books.

467
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: One of his daughters who was talked about how he

468
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: wasn't present in her life. Her mom had basically been like, yo,

469
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: I want to have kids and I don't want to

470
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: get married, so you're gonna fuck me or what you know,

471
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: and like and he basically sperm downered, right, and so

472
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: like that one, I'm like, well, I got nothing against

473
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: his decision. That was like the mother's choice, right, you know.

474
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he.

475
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: I think that he also like was a shitty dad.

476
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: He was a man in the early nineteen hundreds.

477
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, although there's gonna.

478
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: Be not everything is avoidable, I guess not. I don't

479
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 3: want to sound apologistic, but you know, it's like it

480
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 3: was really great. The early nineteen hundreds for men was

481
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: also just like this huge like masculine revolution where Teddy

482
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: Roosevelt and everybody were just like pushing this just extreme, ridiculous,

483
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: cartoonish masculinity. So I feel like, you know those people

484
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: that resisted that is like, yeah, I had a given props.

485
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, And this guy like, I mean, you've

486
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 2: he gen you andly loved women and respected them. He

487
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: was constantly like he the main thing he did with

488
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: his career was live in the shadow of a woman

489
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: ten years older than him who is not conventionally attractive,

490
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 2: like you know.

491
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

492
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: But later in life he becomes a he's was organizing

493
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: him for public health. He becomes a huge condom guy.

494
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: He talks all the time about how great condoms are.

495
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: That quote the sex urge cannot be controlled, and that

496
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: quote a time will come when condoms will be on

497
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: exhibit in high schools and yeah, and that we must

498
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: make sex safe and fool proof.

499
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 3: But god, yeah, that's that's an early adopter for sure.

500
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

501
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 3: I was reading I'm really into the Donner Party. It's

502
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 3: one of my weird interests in just like reading about

503
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 3: the f friends of the party.

504
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: No again, yeah.

505
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yes, yeah, Abe Blanket almost went on the

506
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 3: Donner Party. That's my fact for al. I want to

507
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 3: spread it far and wide. But yeah, condoms were ma

508
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 3: out of like a just like sheep membrane and just

509
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 3: like I'm curious what they Yeah, do you know what

510
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 3: the condoms he was talking about were made out of?

511
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Like latex was far off right?

512
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: No, no, I think, oh god, I've looked this up before.

513
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 2: I think that the rubber condom. Hold on, Oh no,

514
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: I totally didn't go run and look that up. I

515
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 2: totally knew that the volcanization of rubber happened in the

516
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 2: mid nineteenth century, and one of the first things they

517
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: did with it was make condoms.

518
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 3: Well God blessom.

519
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember when they like started making like

520
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: forms instead of like individ whatever. Anyway, but yeah, no,

521
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: but he's still like I mean, he he's getting arrested

522
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,239
Speaker 2: talking about birth control. He like takes it seriously. He's

523
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: a venereal to see his doctor, like you know, but

524
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 2: all that comes later is condom. Well I don't know

525
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: best condom use, but his condom advocacy, you know. For now,

526
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: he's a hobo doctor in his twenties. He is fucking

527
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: his way across the country. And in the winter of

528
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 2: nineteen oh seven nineteen oh eight, there's this upsurgeon on

529
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: employment and labor organizing, which of course is going to

530
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: be totally unfamiliar to a listener today. Those two things

531
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: don't go hand in hand at any time. About and

532
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: Ben Rightman started organizing hobos, and this is before he

533
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: actually never formally joined the IWW. He led a march

534
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: of unemployed men to Chicago City Hall and he's like

535
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: fighting for the rights of unemployed people and transient folks.

536
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: He's throwing fundraising dinners and shit. He's like super charming,

537
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: right and even though he's this poor Jewish kid, he's

538
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: like always like figuring out how to get the upper

539
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,239
Speaker 2: classes to take to like put their money where their

540
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: mouth is by taking care of you know, working class

541
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: and stuff. He gets involved in a larger hobo organization,

542
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: the International Brotherhood Welfare Association, which was founded they're kind

543
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 2: of like the Wobblies are like politically organizing unemployed folks,

544
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: and the IBWA is like cult not even well culturally

545
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: and like taking care of organizing. And so this is

546
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: founded in nineteen oh five or nineteen oh six. That's

547
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: chapters all across the country. It published a street newspaper

548
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: called Hobo News that was sold by street vendors. This

549
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: isn't the first time that that particular like that's a

550
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: very common thing these days, right is the street paper,

551
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: and they mostly kick in at the end of the

552
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 2: twentieth century. This isn't like the first one, but this

553
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: is one of the first ones.

554
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 3: Sounds kind of like a zine precursor.

555
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 2: Oh totally, yeah, totally, and its founder was another fascinating guy,

556
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: this Christian socialist named James eid Howe, the millionaire hobo,

557
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 2: whose name was literal once again.

558
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: Wait, the millionaire Hobo's that's That's not a reality TV

559
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: show from twenty twelve.

560
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: Nor is it the story of many Silicon Valley boys. No,

561
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 3: I sleep on a bean bag people, Yeah.

562
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: Well why would well? Why would I get an apartment?

563
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: They have everything for me at the Google campus.

564
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 4: It's like, you're getting millions of dollars, buy your own sofa, chad,

565
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 4: get your own kombucha, our capital.

566
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy's like the inverse of that. I wish

567
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: that all of the tech billionaires are millionaires who like

568
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: think of themselves as like cool, burning man types or whatever.

569
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: I wish they would do this instead cool.

570
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: I'm ready to like him.

571
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: He was an heir to two different wealthy Saint Louis families,

572
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 2: Like both sides of his family come from a fuck

573
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: ton of money and he just inherited a fuck ton

574
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 2: of railroad money. But he didn't had no interest in capitalism.

575
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: He studied theology, he didn't eat meat. He hated capitalism.

576
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: He tried and failed to start a monastic order, but

577
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: it didn't work, right, Oh I that yeah, that's cool.

578
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: And so then he was like, fuck it, I'm gonna

579
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: be a hobo and he he took all of he

580
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: only spent money on himself that he actually earned doing

581
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: hobo work, like going to the you know whatever. But

582
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: he didn't just like sit on his trust fund. It

583
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: wasn't even a trust fund. I think he just literally

584
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: had the money. He formed the iwa ib Wa and

585
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: he offered food and lodging and education and hangout spots

586
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: for hoboes at places called hobo colleges, so all across

587
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: the country you could go in and get a place

588
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: to stay, free food, and there's like classes and you

589
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: can just hang out and have a good time.

590
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: And were these like just in different buildings or houses

591
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 3: or do you know what? Was it like?

592
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: I think he's kind of renting out the same kind

593
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: of halls that like union halls are renting out okay, okay,

594
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: which I think was a bigger part of culture back

595
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: in the day.

596
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: Like a grange. Yeah, rent out the grange here totally.

597
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: But he would like rent them I think permanently, Like

598
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: there would be like these now very cool, I know,

599
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: I just like really like him. And then the Chicago

600
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: branch was founded by his protege, Ben Reitman, and this

601
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: was the largest and most successful hobo college in the

602
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: country because I mean basically, because Ben Rightman is an

603
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 2: amazing pr guy and an amazing fundraiser, an organizer and

604
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: a swaggering guy who pushes dude who men hate. Like

605
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: that's the people hate him, you know. The Chicago Hobo

606
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: College was opened to nineteen oh eight, and it was

607
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: a free university where professors from the University of Chicago

608
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: and Northwestern University came and taught hobos and tramps. They

609
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: had an arts program, Opera stars and famous stage actors

610
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: would come and perform and also teach, and basically Ben

611
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: was a master of convincing respectable standing folks to come

612
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: teach and perform for anarchist hobos and wobblies. So cool, yeah,

613
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: and hoboes at this time like clearly when people are

614
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: using the word hobo is a pejorative, they have a

615
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: lot of assumptions that they're making about people don't have housing. Right,

616
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: Hoboes in this time are generally well but self educated.

617
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: They're riding the rails with like tons of books. A

618
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 2: lot of them are like basically running zen distros.

619
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: Right.

620
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: They get all of these pamphlets from like the Wobblies

621
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: and probably from the Waibwa, and like go around and

622
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: literally just like stop various places and sell books and

623
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: like you know, like if you want to read Marxist capital,

624
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: you probably got it from a hobo at a certain

625
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: point in American history. And yeah, they're being cool as shit.

626
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: And why does Ben have anything to do with anything

627
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: that we're talking about today with the Dill Pickle Club.

628
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: Two reasons. One, the Hobo University is sometimes perceived as

629
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: the precursor to the Dill Pickle Club, and people tend

630
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: to forget the like radical origins of cultural institutions. So

631
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: I want to give a justice that comes out of

632
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: this homeless organizing. And too, Ben Wrightman's actually a really

633
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: big part of the Doll Peckle Club. Okay, but I

634
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: want to keep telling the story of Ben Rightman because

635
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: he's fascinating and specifically how he meets him a Goldman.

636
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: Another thing that happened in nineteen oh eight, besides the

637
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: Hobo college getting started, is something that we don't know

638
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: the truth of but has consequences for history. There was

639
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 2: this young Jewish man. He's a broke, nineteen year old kid.

640
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: He's a Russian immigrant. He I think grew up He's

641
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: at least born in but I think he grew up

642
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: in Russia. And he worked as an egg packer. And

643
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: his name was Lazarus Aberbusch. Whi's a fucking cool name

644
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: anyone named Lazarus?

645
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a loaded name.

646
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: I know. Can you even die?

647
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

648
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: Probably not?

649
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well spoiler, but anyway, he was probably an anarchist.

650
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: The jury is out, well the jury convicted him, but

651
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: well no, okay, let's just get to it.

652
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: Okay.

653
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: One day he shows up at the Chicago Police Chief

654
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 2: of Police's house, and there's two stories about what happened

655
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: he goes into the house. The official version, which I

656
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: actually think is the most likely, is that Lazarus was

657
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: there to do a murder on the chief of police.

658
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: For that guy's brutal repression of protesters and the labor

659
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: movement and anarchists. But the chief of police wins the

660
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 2: fight and kills Lazarus, shoots him dead. The other version

661
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: is that Lazarus was not an anarchist, but he was

662
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: there as like a misguided attempt to get the chief

663
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: of police to write a letter of good character for

664
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: Lazarus to live and work outside of Chicago, because this

665
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: was the Russian Empire's cultural norm is that if you

666
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: want to go work somewhere else, you go to the

667
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: chief of police or whatever.

668
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: Huh, those are really different.

669
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: I know, I know his sister holds to this one,

670
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: like to the end of her days.

671
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: I think she holds to the second story.

672
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, yeah, okay, She's like, he couldn't have afforded

673
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: a gun. There's no way he would have had a gun.

674
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: He wasn't an anarchist. I think it's more likely that

675
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: he showed up there to do a murder. I support

676
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: him either way. The police version is what's stuck, and

677
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: since this is nineteen oh eight and people are fucking

678
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: weird back then, they exhume his body from the grave

679
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: to remove his brain to study the brain of an

680
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: anarchist because they're convinced we have like abnormal growths on

681
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: our brains or some shit.

682
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like phrenology days. Yeah. Well, they're looking at

683
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: the shape of your forehead to decide if you should live, yeah,

684
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 3: or be part of the elite utopia. Yeah.

685
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: I remember one of my friends was once explained to

686
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 2: me this like blew my mind that there was a

687
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: person who had to dedicate his entire life to measuring

688
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: the skulls of people different races, and he knew that

689
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: racism was nonsense, and he was just literally he was like,

690
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 2: I'm the guy who up with the statistics to say

691
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: that white people's brains aren't bigger. Hooray. This is totally

692
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: a good use of my time.

693
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 3: That's what he did with this one wild and precious life.

694
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: You know, I mean like it needed to be God,

695
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: it shouldn't have needed to be done.

696
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 3: It shouldn't have needed to be done. But yeah, you know.

697
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: But digging people up to pull out their brains actually

698
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: is one against the law and two reel against Jewish

699
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: religious practices. Yeah. Yeah, people got really mad. The chief

700
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: of police who shot him posed in a photo with

701
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 2: the kid's corpse as if he was a big game hunter.

702
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: The only upside is that the chief of police like

703
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: never emotionally recovered from it all and wound up like

704
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: quitting well good. I know, yeah, but the dominoes of

705
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 2: this is that the cops running around arresting all the

706
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: anarchists in Chicago, which I mean that happening forty years

707
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: earlier is why we have the made egg the May

708
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: first celebration of worker holidays. But they're running around arresting

709
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: all the anarchists. Gets to the bottom of this plot,

710
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: even though there probably wasn't a plot, even if he

711
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: was there to do a murder, it was probably just

712
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: he was like, man, fuck that guy, you know. But

713
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: they're like, oh shit, these like Russian born Jewish anarchists,

714
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: they're the problem. When who shows up in town. But

715
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: the most dangerous woman in America red Emma Emma Goldman

716
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: a Russian born Jewish anarchist. So her venue is like, oh,

717
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: you're not talking here, that's not happening. Our guy, Ben

718
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 2: Reightman is like what you're talking about? She's coolest shit.

719
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: It's like I found you a new place to talk.

720
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: Come speak at the Hobo College. Ooh, perfect, it would be.

721
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: But then the police shut down the whole event. She

722
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 2: did not get to do a talk in Chicago that time, but.

723
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: That would have been so nice. I would have loved

724
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: to have been there.

725
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: I know, I know, got it.

726
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: There's like, it's not even like my favorite historical figure

727
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't know if I have one. I

728
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: can't think of anyone else I'd rather go see's talk,

729
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: besides maybe Lucy Parsons, who will mention some of the

730
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 2: quotes from later.

731
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, oh yeah, it would be a dream. At

732
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: least we have some recordings of it, which is nice.

733
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 3: Not a lot, right, we know, there's not too many

734
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 3: recordings of her talking, but man, it is uh, it

735
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: is powerful, that's for sure. I've never heard got the

736
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 3: voice of the Leader. Oh my god, you haven't heard

737
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: recordings of her? No? Oh yeah, I mean maybe there's

738
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 3: only like one I've heard, the one where she's talking

739
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: about how she appreciates FDR actually like listening to workers.

740
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: I've read that one. But she also like dis is kind,

741
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 3: she kind of disses him and yeah it's good, it's

742
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: really good. But it's uh, I can hear it in

743
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 3: my head, right.

744
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 2: Now that's fucking cool.

745
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, look it up everyone.

746
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So she can't talk in Chicago, but Ben Rightman

747
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 2: is now intrigued, so he goes to Minneapolis to see

748
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: her talk and he just like falls madly in love.

749
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 2: He sees her on stage and is like, there's the

750
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: girl from There's one of the many girls for me.

751
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 2: She's ten years older than him, She's thirty nine, he's

752
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 2: twenty nine. And he basically like goes and runs her

753
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: merch table during the talk without even like chucking. He's

754
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: just like, ah, shit, how do I get involved?

755
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 3: You know?

756
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: He goes and runs her the book table, you know.

757
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 3: And yunsung heroes.

758
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And he's just the scene guy, like I

759
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: love that. This is an episode it's about men, but

760
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: it's about man who live in women's shadows and that

761
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: do stuff, you know. Yeah, And and it meets her

762
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 2: and she falls for him too. He becomes her manager

763
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: for eight years, and one of the reasons she falls

764
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: in love is this man can fuck okay. Emma Goldman

765
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: wrote of the first time they fucked, quote that night,

766
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: I was caught in the torrent of elemental passion. I

767
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: had never dreamed any man could rouse in me, I

768
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: responded shamelessly to its primitive call. It's naked beauty, it's

769
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: ecstatic joy.

770
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god. This is from her books memoirs.

771
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

772
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 3: Oh well, let's just say good for him. Yeah, okay,

773
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: well let's tell me we're looking him up. Yeah, I

774
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: want to look at.

775
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: Him, right, totally young, Ben Right.

776
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 3: That was good, Sophie, Thank you so much.

777
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: All right, Ben rightman as hot as hell?

778
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, okay, mm hmm he's got the mustache.

779
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: Look, he's kind of got like a Zappa vibe.

780
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm mm hmmm, I see an ascot.

781
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then like good later, Ben rightman, you know what,

782
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: he has earned his reputation and people, I'm sure still

783
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 2: completely into him. Yeah. She described him as a handsome brute.

784
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 3: That's what you want.

785
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the kind of energy that is putting out. And

786
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: he is an amazing booking agent and he changed him

787
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: Goldman's life. She goes from speaking to whatever local cliqu

788
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: of anarchist is in any given town just selling out

789
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: halls of thousands. She gets, he gets the middle class

790
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: to show up to see her too, and he hands

791
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: sells radical books at the events, saying quote we sold

792
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: more books and works of literature than any two propagandists

793
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: in the United States. The publisher of Whitman's Leaves of

794
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: Grass told us that for several years, Emma was his

795
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: best customer, and her pamphlets are selling like fifty thousand copies,

796
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: which is like, wow, that's like New York Times bestselling.

797
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 2: That's like real easy. Yeah, yeah, that's like number one.

798
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 3: She'd be on there. Oh yeah wow. And you know

799
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 3: what's cool is like you were talking about the radical

800
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: roots of institutions, and it's like pr itself isn't coming

801
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 3: into play until like the nineteen twenty is real as

802
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: an industry. So you know, these are some radical roots.

803
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 3: We got propaganda, we got the anarchists come together, you

804
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 3: get a horrifying new industry.

805
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. That is one of the like sad things

806
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: that comes out of all of this. It's like, and

807
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 2: then we invent new culture and then capitalism takes it. Yeah, yeah,

808
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: unrelated to that. Did you know that you could spend

809
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: your money on the products and services that support this

810
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: fine podcast?

811
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

812
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's true. In fact, here's someone who will explain

813
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: to you just how to do it.

814
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: I hope it's the Rigan coin people.

815
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: We all hope, Hi Regan, and we're back and we're

816
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 2: talking about Ronald Reagan, the cool person who did cool.

817
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: Wait, you know, I do have to add Joni to

818
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: my list of things that could be considered the equivalent

819
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: of the Roman Empire list that I've been making with

820
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 1: Sarah Marshall for the last since.

821
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 3: That's talking about the astrologer.

822
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the astrologer Joe our girl.

823
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 3: Oh okay, And you know, I want to tell you

824
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 3: maybe you know this, maybe you don't. Ronnie Reagan early hitchhiker.

825
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: He hitchhiked in his young life to find work. Yeah,

826
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 3: where he was trying to work as a journalist, radio guy.

827
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 3: I know, you know it could have gone either way

828
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 3: with him. Yeah, and it really went either way.

829
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan, the wobbly is like, that's the all history

830
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: that I'm.

831
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: Kind of disappointed that Joni didn't make my original top

832
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: ten list of things that are the equivalent of men

833
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: thinking about the Roman Empire.

834
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear the rest of them.

835
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'll understand how I won't.

836
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 2: I won't understand it.

837
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: I'll give it that's absolutely number one. Princess Diana, Okay

838
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: is number two, Lolita. Especially that photo of Bradley Cooper

839
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: reading it to his extremely young girlfriend in the park.

840
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 3: That was weird? Was that was?

841
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: That was the time? Number three, the Tutors. Number four,

842
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: the post it note scene from Sex and the City.

843
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: You don't know that I.

844
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: Know, but I made it pretty far. I got the

845
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 2: first three.

846
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: Number five just Taylor Swift as a concept.

847
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I have conversations about Taylor Swift constantly,

848
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: even though I just because of the people are Yeah.

849
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: Number six, you'll get this one, Marie Antoinette, Oh yeah,

850
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: number seven, the Titanic. Number eight, that magazine cover of

851
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: Jessica Simpson that gave every young girl body issues because

852
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: they called her Jumbo Jessica.

853
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think about that often.

854
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: Mild Number nine, why did you drop out of Yale

855
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: from Gilmore Girls?

856
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 3: Oh nice?

857
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: Twilight? And now eleven Jony.

858
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, John Quiggley, She's We did a whole episode that

859
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: revolved around presidents using astrologers and Reagan. Nancy Reagan used

860
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 3: a particular astrologer quite often, and she wrote a very

861
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: wild expose.

862
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: We got I think it was at least a one

863
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: part from Behind the Bastards on Jony, but you did, yeah,

864
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yep, She's She's worth it. But I'm

865
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: going to keep growing this list, and if you have suggestions.

866
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: Strangle shirt wi was foul.

867
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah that too, Yeah, that too. That's

868
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 1: a good one. I also think about that ballerina that

869
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: her her costume lit on fire and killed her. I

870
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: think about that.

871
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've never heard of that.

872
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: I haven't heard of that either.

873
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sophia Alexandra gave me this book that was like

874
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: a like a book that had this that was like death,

875
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: like like how how clothing is dangerous? And there was

876
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: like a whole thing about it. And I was like,

877
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 1: oh now fear unlocked.

878
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like a spontaneous combustion level.

879
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: Not that I'm doing ballet, but well not yet. Anyways,

880
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: back to the podcast and less about me. But if you,

881
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: if you, dear listeners, have things that you think should

882
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: be on this list, you have permission to tag me

883
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: on the social interwebs, but not me, Margaret.

884
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: You can tag me. You can tag Chelsea.

885
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 1: Don't know if they will see it either.

886
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: I thought spontaneous human combustion is gonna be a much

887
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 2: larger part of life. It's like what people say about

888
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: like a quicksand you know, or.

889
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 3: Like Bermuda Triangle.

890
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like I had an aunt who lived in

891
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: Bermuda and I was like, how is she alive? For

892
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: a very long time? And but yeah, span yeah, I

893
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: thought spontaneous human combustion was just like because I loved

894
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: these pre internet books, the like Mysteries of the Unknown

895
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: from Time Life or whatever these like is a like

896
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: thing where you convinced trick people into buying this like

897
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: subscription to these shitty hardcover books full of nonsense.

898
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 3: Oh, like an early subscription box.

899
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally very cool. Anyway, what might have come in

900
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: them is pamphlets from Emma Goldman.

901
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but cool.

902
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: At one point, Ben Rightman, so he's not even technically

903
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 2: in the IWW we actually covered this part in a

904
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: different episode at one point, but he's fighting with the

905
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: Hoboes for free speech, like whenever they have a free

906
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: speech fighting sometimes showing up, you know. And at one

907
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: point he gets literally tarred and feathered by a right

908
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: wing mob of businessmen in San Diego, which.

909
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 3: Is like, no joke, that's hot.

910
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 2: Tar yeah, yeah, no, uh almost.

911
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 3: Kills you, right yeah. Ough.

912
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 2: They actually they didn't have any feathers, so they tar

913
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: and sage brushed him and then they burned the letters

914
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: IWW into his like into his butt, you know, or

915
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: like onto his butt. Shetran, Yeah, but well, I guess

916
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: with a cigar so slowly, and he wasn't even a

917
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: dues paid member. But I hope he decided he I

918
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: hope they just decided he's in after that, right, yeah,

919
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 2: And he apparently like took it, and I mean, what

920
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: else are you gonna do? He would like give talks

921
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: and we'll get to it. But the Dill Pickle Club,

922
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: like everything's like kind of comedy, and like one of

923
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: his big things when he'd give talks is he'd be like, well,

924
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you, and everyone's like, nah, don't show us.

925
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: You know.

926
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: It's like the scandalous thing where he's gonna show you

927
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: the scars on his butt or whatever. In nineteen eighteen,

928
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: while he was in prison for six months for teaching

929
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: birth control, he he did all of his usual stuff.

930
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: He was the prison's free doctor, like all the inmates

931
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 2: would come to him. Right. He was also fucking just

932
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: fucking his way through the prison, gluting you know the

933
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 2: boy you would assume male prisoners. He also fucked a

934
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 2: bunch of female prison guards. Hey, and then he also

935
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 2: fucked female prisoners consentually. And I I don't know how

936
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 2: he's managing this, Like is he like fucking guards to

937
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: be like get permission to go fuck other people? I

938
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: don't know.

939
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 3: I guess we're just spreads. Yeah, opportunities come your way. Yeah.

940
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 2: And his quote about this when people are like, wait,

941
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: you fuck dudes, he's like, quote, yes, I took my

942
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 2: fun where I found it, and I denied myself nothing.

943
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

944
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, iconic.

945
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 3: I know.

946
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: He goes on living his life. He works as a

947
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: doctor for the down trodden. He advocates public health. He

948
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: is somewhat irresponsible about how he fucks. The whole thing

949
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: with Emma Goldmett didn't put it in the script specifically,

950
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: She's like going on tour talking about free love and

951
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 2: the whole time he's like just like fuck a ton

952
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 2: of people and like kind of and she's on this

953
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 2: like like there was like this like fight in the

954
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 2: free love thing between like sort of the spiritual and

955
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 2: profane sex. And so there's kind of like, only fucking

956
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: people that you like, romantically care about and then casual sex, right,

957
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: and he's on a team casual sex and she's not,

958
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: and like, and later he writes her a letter being like, hey,

959
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,359
Speaker 2: I've been fucking all these people, and she's like, oh no,

960
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 2: I'm very sad. But also she sort of knew and

961
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: was also fucking other people and yeah, whatever, old polydrama.

962
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 3: Yep.

963
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: And while it's open, the Dill Pickle Club is his

964
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: home away from home, with his actual home being the rails.

965
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 2: He died of a heart attack at sixty three, and

966
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 2: he's buried in the same Chicago cemeteries and Ma Goldman

967
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons and the Haymarket Martyrs. He supposedly rode a

968
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: million miles of railroad tracks without ever having paid a

969
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: single fare. Might have you know, wouldn't put it past him.

970
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 2: He also supposedly left fifteen hundred dollars in his will

971
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 2: to establish a drinking trust for the local bumps to

972
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 2: drink to his memory, like, and anyone caught crying over

973
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 2: his death into their beer was cut off from the fund.

974
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 3: Wow yeah, wow wow, And.

975
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 2: It seems like one of those things. Yeah, okay, wait

976
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: wait you specialize in urban legends. I want to get

977
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: your your sure your take on whether or not that's

978
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 2: just an urban legend.

979
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: I mean it kind of sounds like tall Tale a

980
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 3: little bit, but it's kind of specific, so you know,

981
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 3: it feels like maybe a little too specific to be

982
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 3: a legend. Maybe I would say the million miles sounds

983
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 3: more urban legendy than something as specific as creating a

984
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 3: drinking fund and like the no crying, But I don't know,

985
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 3: you know, that's the thing about urban legends.

986
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 2: No, that makes sense. And I while at some other

987
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: point he mentions in his writing being inspired or like,

988
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: he mentions how cool it was when so and so

989
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: died left behind four hundred dollars for the bumps to

990
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 2: like and like, so that his funeral was like the

991
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: best raucous fun time in whatever. So he clearly so he.

992
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 3: Has like some consciousness already over what he wants to do. Yeah,

993
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 3: potentially yeaheah, okay.

994
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: Which is funny because.

995
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 3: Then let's believe it.

996
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's funny because the Dopeckle Club was sober

997
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: and run by a tito.

998
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: Yeah that's funny.

999
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 2: But one of his daughters, Helen Reightman, was a lesbian

1000
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 2: who went on to become a prominent nudist who wrote

1001
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: a book in the thirties in nineteen thirty two called

1002
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 2: Ongoing Naked and founded a newdist club, as well as

1003
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: being a sexologist in nineteen thirties Germany, studying homosexuality and

1004
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: working to regularize it because nineteen twenties and thirties Germany

1005
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: was the front of the world for queer rights. And

1006
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: she also rode the rails wearing men's clothes and changed

1007
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 2: her name to Jan Gay. And I don't know whether

1008
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: it was a like because I'm a gay lady thing

1009
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 2: or not.

1010
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 3: When did gay come into common useage? Sure, because it was,

1011
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: like you, it was more pansy, more fairy in like

1012
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 3: the twenties and thirties.

1013
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: And it was the third sex before then.

1014
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah. Yeah, we just did a series on early

1015
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 3: drag queens, so I was really deep in the pansy

1016
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 3: craze and kind of the how everyone was kind of

1017
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: weirdly pro gay for like three years in the thirties.

1018
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool as hell.

1019
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1020
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: No, I only am about fun from an American point

1021
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 2: of view. I know more about like when it kicks in,

1022
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: like with the Matachine Society and stuff a little bit later, like.

1023
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: H totally it's good history. Yeah, check it out, guys.

1024
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so that's the setup about hobos and this

1025
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: like started with hoboes, the Dopickle Club all this stuff, right,

1026
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: and from there, so Chicago has this hobo culture. From

1027
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: there it becomes the bohemians. And again not actually people

1028
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 2: from bohemia, people who get called that or call themselves that,

1029
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: the counterculture and specifically the two came together in Chicago

1030
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 2: in what got called Hobohemia, which is a counterculture built

1031
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 2: on vagabonds and with wandering working class intellectuals and artists.

1032
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: And it's a really funny portmanteau to me because hobo

1033
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 2: might already mean homeless bohemian, right right, so it's like

1034
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: hobobobo or something, I don't know whatever.

1035
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what do they call that? A baby puppy

1036
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 3: in journalism? Kind of kind of.

1037
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a baby puppy. Our hoe Bohemia in Chicago

1038
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 2: was located in an area called Tower Town, which is

1039
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: now called Old Chicago water Tower District. It is named

1040
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: after the Old Chicago water Tower. But you didn't see

1041
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 2: that coming it and its pumping station were the only

1042
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: buildings that survived the Great Fire of eighteen seventy one

1043
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,359
Speaker 2: that destroyed pretty much the whole. They'd been built two

1044
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: years earlier, and they're like stone right, it's a really

1045
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: neat castle. It looks like some Lord of the Rings,

1046
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: like evil war fang. Shit. Eh, I've worked in Lord

1047
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 2: of the Rings, Sophie. Aren't you proud of me? Thanks?

1048
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: Less than an hour and you did it.

1049
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what matters. That's why I get paid the

1050
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: big buck. It actually get fired if I don't mention

1051
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings every episode or week.

1052
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Lord of the Rings the equival of the

1053
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: Roman Empire for you, Magpie.

1054
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 2: Yeah probably, Yeah that in the Spanish Civil War.

1055
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: Well you think about that like every three hours.

1056
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 2: That's true. I'm trying to figure out this episode. This

1057
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: episode might not tie into the Oh my god, don't worry.

1058
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: It's gonna tie into the Irish Revolution, the Easter risings

1059
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 2: in it. And I talked shit on Stalin. Don't worry.

1060
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: Oh good Yeah, thank goodness. Yeah, you're checking some of

1061
00:55:59,640 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 3: the box.

1062
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll take it.

1063
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, tuberculosis, that's what I think about every once a

1064
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 2: week instead of the Roman Empire consumption. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1065
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: So Tower Town and where Hoe Bohemia is. It had

1066
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 2: been a rich neighborhood originally, but by the nineteen tens

1067
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 2: it's a working class neighborhood. It's the large houses are

1068
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 2: divided up into tenements, and it was a three block

1069
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: wide buffer between the Gold Coast, which was rich bastards

1070
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: on the shore to the east, and Little Hell to

1071
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: the west, which was a poor immigrant Italian neighborhood whose

1072
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: organized crime would capture the nation's attention during Prohibition. The

1073
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 2: word gentrification was not coined until nineteen sixty four, but

1074
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: it's a process that's been with us as long as

1075
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: there's been cities. The neighborhood was cheap, so artists moved

1076
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 2: there because art doesn't pay well in the capitalist society.

1077
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 2: If you want to stop gentrification, stop capitalism, because then

1078
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 2: artists can live wherever they want, or it can get

1079
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: paid better whatever. Anyway, Artists have to afford to eat,

1080
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 2: so they move where they can afford. Poor artists attract

1081
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: rich artists and wealthier people in general, and then the

1082
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 2: poor artists as well as original residents are priced out.

1083
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,439
Speaker 2: For a little while. It was a place for free

1084
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: thinkers where new ideas could percolate and take hold. This

1085
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: whole bohemia didn't center around the water Tower itself. It

1086
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: centered around Washington Square Park, which they called bug House Square.

1087
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1088
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: Bug House Square was where people soapboxed, which is they

1089
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: literally stood up on boxes to address the crowd to

1090
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 2: go on about this or that thing. Okay, this is

1091
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: like the opposite thing, like of like quicksand or spontaneous

1092
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: human combustion. Soapboxing it seemed like a like weird thing,

1093
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: like a weird trope that obviously probably didn't really happen.

1094
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: Why would someone do this? This is like, this is

1095
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: like the entertainment of.

1096
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 3: The Yeah, this is tweeting. Yeah, No, totally just yell

1097
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 3: your tweet yeah to the square. Yeah.

1098
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 2: And it was called bug House Square because bug house

1099
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: was slang for crazy at the time, and it was

1100
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: an awfully eclectic mix of folks doing soapboxing, including anarchists, Wobbly's, communists,

1101
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 2: and folks with more unique political inclinations and ideas like

1102
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 2: whatever they've come up with. This is a time before

1103
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: podcasts when there was no other entertainment available. Because I

1104
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 2: think podcasts are the only form of entertainment if you've

1105
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: come up with it.

1106
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 3: There definitely are soapboxes.

1107
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, absolutely, Literally thousands of people would show

1108
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 2: up on the weekends to listen to and heckle dozens

1109
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 2: of soapboxers every every day. It was the best known

1110
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: public square for this in the country during its heyday.

1111
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 2: And the thing that's interesting to me is that this

1112
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 2: they're not like modern talking heads there. They have more

1113
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: in common with modern stand up comics, and like all

1114
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: the good podcasters, I've never done stand up comedy. I

1115
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: probably never will I have either, but like, clearly we

1116
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: try to be funny instead of just serious.

1117
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 3: I'm very funny grim.

1118
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all kinds of views are espoused all over

1119
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: bug House Square, but the sort of hegemonic influence, the

1120
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 2: overall vibe, and the most speakers were the Wobbleys, the

1121
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 2: industrial workers of the world. Chicago was the crossroads of

1122
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 2: the country where East meets West. They kept calling it

1123
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 2: the Middle West, and I like don't know if that's

1124
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 2: just what they called it, or if that's just what

1125
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: people called it before the Midwest. I'm not sure. I've

1126
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: never read so many first hand accounts of the Midwest

1127
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: until that's particular, and so we had a lot of

1128
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: railroads going through it, so it had a lot of hoboes,

1129
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: and so that I had a lot of wobbleys and

1130
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 2: IWW was found in Chicago in nineteen oh five. I

1131
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: want to quote one of my favorite bug house soapboxers,

1132
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,919
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons, who's later a dill pickle, a pickler as

1133
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 2: they call them. Lucy Parsons was born a slave. She

1134
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 2: saw her husband hanged for running a newspaper during the

1135
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 2: Haymarket affair, which gives us may day. And this is

1136
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: a soapbox quote from her from a little later, but

1137
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: it seems to carry the vibe and I just kind

1138
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: of like it. It's not too far from what you'd

1139
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 2: see on Twitter before a billionaire got scared of us

1140
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,919
Speaker 2: all and destroyed Twitter. Lucy Parsons said to a crowd,

1141
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 2: what I want is for every greasy, grimy tramp in

1142
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: the country to arm himself with a knife or a

1143
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: gun and stationing himself at the doorways of the rich,

1144
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 2: shoot or stab them as they come out.

1145
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 3: Didn't mince words. Very direct, very direct. Yeah.

1146
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: Fifty years earlier, she was writing pieces about why dynamite

1147
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: is the working class friend.

1148
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 3: Right.

1149
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 2: She just pretty pretty consistent.

1150
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 3: Yep.

1151
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 2: I'll say there's a few other landmarks to Hobohemia. There's

1152
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,919
Speaker 2: the Radical Bookshop, which had a bit of an uninspired name.

1153
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: It was called the Radical Bookshop. This was started in

1154
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 2: nineteen fourteen by what I've seen described as a disaffected

1155
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 2: preacher and his blind anarchist wife and co run by

1156
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 2: their two daughters. And basically they were like fuck off, broke,

1157
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: and they had a ton of books because they were

1158
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: both really bookish people, right, and so they were like,

1159
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: all right, we better turn our house into a bookshop,

1160
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: otherwise we're fucked.

1161
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 3: Fair enough.

1162
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 2: This lasted more than a decade, despite police harassment, and

1163
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 2: it was an inspiring place for some of the folks

1164
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 2: that laid kind of the foundations for twentieth century American poetry.

1165
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I've heard these names, but I don't.

1166
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm not enough of a poetry person. But Kennis rex

1167
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 2: Roth and Carl Sandberg kind of got their start through

1168
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: all of this. The mother, her name was Lillian h Udell.

1169
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: She was a writer herself, and she wrote reviews of

1170
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 2: books and a biographical sketch of future friend of the

1171
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: pod Fltering Declaire. The other major partner in the bookshop

1172
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 2: was a socialist publisher called Charles H. Kerr, and he

1173
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 2: was another who at this point he's no longer that

1174
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: that's the name of the publisher, not the guy. But

1175
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: it was started by a guy named Charles H. Kerr,

1176
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: who is another Christian, socialist, vegetarian guy. And this guy's

1177
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 2: a Unitarian. His press is still around today. They published

1178
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: the book about the Dill Pickle Club. I believe the

1179
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 2: only book about the Dill Pickle Club. I just read it.

1180
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: I think you think I know what it was called.

1181
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: It's probably called the Dill Pickle Club. If anyone's trying

1182
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: to google this, there's one l in Dill pickle because

1183
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 2: I think they got like sued over that was like

1184
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 2: trademark problems when they tried to use two wells and

1185
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: they're like whatever, we don't care. Every Sunday, the Udells

1186
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: had discussions in their bookshop sort of an indoor bug

1187
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 2: house square. Before too long they realized they needed a

1188
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 2: real indoor bug house square, a cafe for all comers

1189
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 2: to discuss ideas and collectively and democratically form new ways

1190
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: of thinking, being and living. They needed a Dill Pickle club,

1191
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: which will talk talk about on Wednesday.

1192
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Mmm, I'm so excited. Wow, this has been a

1193
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: really cool journey so far. Thanks, like a real American tale.

1194
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 2: I say, right, very okay, but what's your uh both

1195
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 2: of you, what's your what's your takeaway on Ben rightman?

1196
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 3: The man can fuck? Yeah?

1197
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.

1198
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 3: It sounds like he was put his money where his

1199
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 3: mouth was and you know, lived kind of a weird

1200
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 3: dual life as like a dog because he was the doctor. Yeah,

1201
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 3: a doctor. I don't know. It's like a very very

1202
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 3: cool story and anyone connected Emma Goldman I want to

1203
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 3: know about. So this is definitely a very cool story.

1204
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 3: And I don't I'm I don't know where it's going

1205
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: to go. I have no idea.

1206
01:03:54,320 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 2: Well it's going to go to Wednesday. But first, where

1207
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 2: can people hear you or at you on social media

1208
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 2: when they have ideas about what they think about every week?

1209
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 2: That isn't the Roman Empire?

1210
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,800
Speaker 3: Great? Yeah? American Hysteria is my podcast and we cover

1211
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 3: moral panics, urban legends, conspiracy theories, and hoaxes as well

1212
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 3: as crazes throughout American history and we kind of trace

1213
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 3: them back to their roots kind of not unlike your show,

1214
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 3: and try to uncover some hidden history that illuminates the

1215
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 3: present day. So you can find that anywhere. You can

1216
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 3: find me mostly on Instagram at American Hysteria Podcast. I'm

1217
01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 3: not doing Twitter anymore. I've officially decided Twitter's gone. No,

1218
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 3: I'll be in the town square.

1219
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: So you're saying that people who like this podcast might

1220
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: like your podcast.

1221
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 3: I'm saying it. Okay, I'm going to say it right. Yeah, Uh,

1222
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 3: what do I have to plug? I once had a

1223
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 3: satanic panic after me. That's what I'm going to try

1224
01:04:59,200 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 3: and say to impress you.

1225
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: Instead, you had one after me. Yeah, there was a

1226
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: satanic planic for my band. When I lived in Ashville,

1227
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 2: North Carolina. There's this local right wing news quote unquote

1228
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: news journalist who actually had a pretty large following, was

1229
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 2: a Facebook guy called a Skyline News, and he like

1230
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 2: was like convinced about antifoe, which, murder, baby whatever.

1231
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: All the keywords. Yes, Okay.

1232
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: He found my music video and was like what and

1233
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,439
Speaker 2: so we just printed pieces of it onto our band

1234
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 2: shirts after that and just.

1235
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 3: H well, that's what you definitely do. You got to

1236
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 3: work that in. Yeah, well that does impress means I

1237
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 3: am impressed as my goal.

1238
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 2: So if you want to follow me, I'm still on

1239
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: Instagram at Murder at Kiljoy, and I'm on Substack now

1240
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 2: where I write a bunch every week because that's the

1241
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 2: thing that I can't stop doing. I mean, because I

1242
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 2: have new and insightful things that you should totally check out.

1243
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 2: Uh And and also I want to shout out sad Oligarch,

1244
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 2: which I just finished listening to, because you think I wait,

1245
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 2: I always wait until everything's like if it's like a

1246
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: limited run.

1247
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: You binge it, you binge it totally? Yeah, what'd you think?

1248
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: That's fucking great? If you like this, you'll like sad

1249
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: Oligarch Jake Hanrahan talking about basically skirting around outright saying

1250
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 2: that Putin is killing all these oligarchs to consolidate power

1251
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: in Russia. And it's good, it's entertaining and as it's

1252
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 2: also kind of dark, but that's what I got to plug.

1253
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: Go listen to sad Oligarch, Sophie Cool, what do you got?

1254
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: I want to plug the good folks at Border Kindness.

1255
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: If you're not following them ontocial media, then you should be.

1256
01:06:51,520 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: And if you are able to donate, that would be awesome.

1257
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: They're doing really good work. And listen to the couple

1258
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: of episodes that our video and James Stout has done

1259
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: on what's going on at the Border on it.

1260
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 2: Could happen here yep, and see y'all Wednesday.

1261
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: Ye by Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a

1262
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

1263
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check

1264
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,800
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1265
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.