Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the weekend edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week Week thirty five Working from home. Still for
Speaker 1: so many as COVID nineteen's most recent global waves dominated headlines,
Speaker 1: so too did very promising developments on a vaccine. It
Speaker 1: was a week full of reminders though that we are
Speaker 1: still in a global health pandemic, and we're also thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about life after the coronavirus. If there's a theme,
Speaker 1: it's be patient with that in mind. Coming up this hour,
Speaker 1: We've really need seen anything like this, and in terms
Speaker 1: of the economic and financial impact. Jeff Lucy O Robin
Speaker 1: Hayes on figuring out how to fly passengers safely. I
Speaker 1: caught up with him from the nine eleven Memorial and
Speaker 1: Museum Summit on security. Plus the president of the Philadelphia Fed,
Speaker 1: Pat Harker, on the election, the economy and creating resilient workers.
Speaker 1: We begin, though, with the cover story of this week's magazine.
Speaker 1: It's about building a better future and what's needed. Simply put,
Speaker 1: we need global cooperation and that's what the Bloomberg New
Speaker 1: Economy Forum will tackle It kicks off Monday, virtually four
Speaker 1: days of global programming with a blockbuster agenda and a
Speaker 1: line above leaders talking about everything from the coronavirus to
Speaker 1: climate change and the biggest challenges humanity faces. For more,
Speaker 1: we checked in with Business Week Economics editor Christina Lindblad
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg business Week editor Jill Weber. Christina was the
Speaker 1: architect of this little package of stories and and she
Speaker 1: did a great job, and that was one of the
Speaker 1: reasons that um I wanted to have her on the
Speaker 1: show today. And obviously we talked about zel yesterday, which
Speaker 1: is um I thought just a phenomenally interesting one in
Speaker 1: regards to Venezuela and sort of how people they are
Speaker 1: making use of it to do something that you know,
Speaker 1: the company, you know, Zell, never intended to have happened.
Speaker 1: Um And that's just sort of an example. I think
Speaker 1: of the approach that Christina used throughout the issue is
Speaker 1: sort of like, how do we tap into some of
Speaker 1: these biggest challenges that that we face, that humanity faces,
Speaker 1: And obviously that kind of starts with the pandemic since
Speaker 1: that is the you know, one of the stories of
Speaker 1: the year. For sure. Um Christina can be that and
Speaker 1: kind of lay out what you learned about this story
Speaker 1: by Jason Galen and long haulers. Yeah, thanks Carol for
Speaker 1: having me on. I've been interested in the long haulers
Speaker 1: for a while because I think we were also focused
Speaker 1: for every day still on infection rates and hospitalizations and
Speaker 1: and and that, but also to understand that there are
Speaker 1: people who some of them have symptoms that are so
Speaker 1: bad that they're almost disabled, they cannot go back to work,
Speaker 1: and it's been several months, and that the scientific and
Speaker 1: health community can't answer the questions that they have about
Speaker 1: whether they're ultimately going to be done with this, you know,
Speaker 1: how long are they going to have these symptoms? Well,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting Christina, considering um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: there's sometimes some populations being kind of cavalier about COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen and you have to remember that, you know, some
Speaker 1: people get it, they don't have a lot of um,
Speaker 1: you know, leftover effects, if you will, and then other
Speaker 1: people get it and it stays with them, as you
Speaker 1: just said, for a really long time. It's just a
Speaker 1: reminder that this virus impacts us all in very different ways.
Speaker 1: That's right. Actually, one of the things that we found
Speaker 1: is that sometimes people who had no symptoms, are very
Speaker 1: light symptoms actually had the biggest problems with you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of long term viral um hangover you would
Speaker 1: say M and you know the other hangover that UM.
Speaker 1: We're all going to kind of be faced with. Here
Speaker 1: is the economic implications of this because COVID can have
Speaker 1: multi oregan impacts and implications, and we're also starting to
Speaker 1: see that there will be an impact in terms of disability.
Speaker 1: What does that mean for all of us? Christina, Well,
Speaker 1: that's I think we talked to several researchers who are
Speaker 1: trying to answer just that question and something they're starting
Speaker 1: to grapple with. I mean, have been comparisons to polio
Speaker 1: for instance, to try to have long range estimate. So
Speaker 1: what would it be like if there had been no
Speaker 1: vaccines that you know, they came in at the right time.
Speaker 1: And I think that's going to be important here. Obviously
Speaker 1: the vaccine, you know, not to have more infected population,
Speaker 1: but we still will have to answer the questions of
Speaker 1: how we help people who UM have damaged their organs,
Speaker 1: their hearts UM and sometimes need UM not just pulmonary rehabilitation,
Speaker 1: but they're also having people describe brain fogs. M So, Christine,
Speaker 1: I want to talk to about Tom or like a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg economic story which sort of talks about how they've
Speaker 1: done They crunched a bunch of numbers to try and
Speaker 1: figure out sort of what the path of global economies
Speaker 1: is going to look like over the next couple of
Speaker 1: years and decades, and they go so far as to say,
Speaker 1: right about five we're going to see a shift in
Speaker 1: terms of UM, a free market economy being overtaken by
Speaker 1: by state driven ones. UM. Can you talk about where
Speaker 1: else he goes in that story and what it means
Speaker 1: for for us. Can I just say to this is
Speaker 1: a must read, like everybody has to read this to
Speaker 1: kind of understand I think where our world is going. Christina, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he did a good job of laying out
Speaker 1: where where we're going to be at mid century and
Speaker 1: to put numbers to something that we've been tracking for
Speaker 1: a while, which is the sort of some people said
Speaker 1: the Asian century. You know, like that this the century
Speaker 1: belongs to Asia and so overall emerging markets. UM at
Speaker 1: the start of the century, where about of GDP, but
Speaker 1: you know through by twenty fifty there will be more
Speaker 1: than half almost six, and China will be by far,
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest um, the biggest part of that.
Speaker 1: And we have this great graphic that sort of shows
Speaker 1: the reordering of the top ten economies, you know, and
Speaker 1: basically China bumps the US off the number one slot,
Speaker 1: India bumps Japan at a number three slot, and you know,
Speaker 1: and you see sort of the kind of youthful developing markets,
Speaker 1: you know, moving up and the sort of aging economies
Speaker 1: moving down. That was Business Week Economics editor Christina Lynn
Speaker 1: Blad and Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber. Check out
Speaker 1: the full cover story and several stories are all related
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg New Economy Forum. It is in this
Speaker 1: week's issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine that is online,
Speaker 1: on newsstands and of course always on the Bloomberg Coming up,
Speaker 1: no doubt, thinking about many of these global issues facing
Speaker 1: our time is the CEO of Jet Blue, Robin Hayes.
Speaker 1: You talked with me about the airline industries woes and
Speaker 1: a safely way back. That's next on Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Garrol
Speaker 1: Mazer from Bloomberg Radio. We'll bring you some of the
Speaker 1: highlights from our daily radio broadcast and podcast, and then
Speaker 1: included drawing out a panel I did at this week's
Speaker 1: third annual nine eleven Memorial and Museum Summit on Security. Now,
Speaker 1: that event brings together many of the world's leading voices
Speaker 1: on security matters from across the public and private sectors.
Speaker 1: It's all about figuring out ways to make our companies, cities,
Speaker 1: and nations safer. Now that's something top of mind for
Speaker 1: Robin Hayes. He's the CEO of J Blue Airways who
Speaker 1: is constantly thinking about how to keep passengers and his
Speaker 1: crew members safe. And I just want to shout out
Speaker 1: everyone on the front lines of this pandemic. You know. Uh,
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about the medical workers who have
Speaker 1: just done a phenomenal job, but airline employees, t s,
Speaker 1: a customs Board of Protection, and all law enforcement officers
Speaker 1: have been at the forefront of this. So just a
Speaker 1: huge shout out to all of them. We couldn't have
Speaker 1: done this without their tremendous support. Um, you know, um
Speaker 1: for those of us who in the industry, at nine eleven,
Speaker 1: it really was one of those defining moments. And you
Speaker 1: think that when you've got that behind you in your career,
Speaker 1: it's unlikely you're going to see anything like that ever
Speaker 1: game or at least you hope you do. And of
Speaker 1: course that's not true. I mean, as hard as nine
Speaker 1: eleven was on the industry, um it really we've seen
Speaker 1: with this pandemic something that has a far bigger impact.
Speaker 1: And you know, with nine eleven, as awful as it was,
Speaker 1: there was a sense of Okay, we now, you know,
Speaker 1: the worst has passed us. We need to put sort
Speaker 1: of protect the aviation system to make sure those threats
Speaker 1: don't come back. But I think with the pandemic, we're here,
Speaker 1: what's seven months on, We're entering into another way things
Speaker 1: could get worse, and so I think just the amount
Speaker 1: of uncertainty that's been created over a longer period of time.
Speaker 1: I mean, the industry is still down on where it
Speaker 1: was pre pandemic, and after nine eleven we'd already sort
Speaker 1: of recovered by a significant degree six or seven months later,
Speaker 1: at least in terms of volumes of people find I mean, Robin,
Speaker 1: is it's safe to say that we are looking when
Speaker 1: it comes to the airline industry, when it comes to
Speaker 1: security security, this is kind of the biggest moment, the
Speaker 1: biggest test once again since nine eleven though oh yeah, actually,
Speaker 1: I mean I think in since you know, commercial aviation
Speaker 1: first started, we've never seen anything we really need seen
Speaker 1: anything like this. And in terms of the economic and
Speaker 1: financial impact UM and the only UM, the only moderating
Speaker 1: impact is the only moderating fact of this time was
Speaker 1: the industry was in much better shape coming into this
Speaker 1: than it was back pre nine eleven. I want to
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a gut check because I
Speaker 1: feel like every day on Bloomberg we certainly are talking
Speaker 1: about the airline industry. Um. You know the amount of
Speaker 1: money that's been lost, the jobs have been lost, I
Speaker 1: mean your industry, as you first hand. No, UM, it's
Speaker 1: just been so so tough. I do wonder how do
Speaker 1: you juggle how do you think about because you have
Speaker 1: to think about security for passengers, security for your crew members,
Speaker 1: safety for all of them. You're juggling a lot. It's
Speaker 1: also about survival and keeping this industry going, one that
Speaker 1: is so important to our economy. On the other side, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, when we when this UM first happened, we
Speaker 1: remember in Jeff, you know, calling everyone in and saying Okay,
Speaker 1: what are we going to do here? Number one priority
Speaker 1: is to ensure the safety and security about customers and
Speaker 1: crew members, which is our word for employees now. You know,
Speaker 1: as Peter knows, historically, when you've talked about that, you've
Speaker 1: talked about making sure airplanes are safe, that well maintained,
Speaker 1: and that we prevent uh threats to security or threats
Speaker 1: to the safety of flight getting near the airplane. That's
Speaker 1: the whole system is built around that. US has done
Speaker 1: as job, better job than anyone else in the world
Speaker 1: in in putting that safety and security infrastructure in place,
Speaker 1: but suddenly we had an invisible enemy. We didn't know
Speaker 1: where it was. We didn't even know what we were
Speaker 1: looking at. So one, safety and security about people and
Speaker 1: customers and recognizing that um uh, you know, sometimes the
Speaker 1: ability to do that lags the information we've got like
Speaker 1: everyone else. You know, we had a big discussion about PPE.
Speaker 1: We remember it was piety was the health care system
Speaker 1: to begin with, you know what, the benefits of masks
Speaker 1: and face coverings wasn't fully understood. So we have people
Speaker 1: in Jet Blue saying, you know, why can't we issue
Speaker 1: face coverings. Well, first of all, that wasn't the official advice,
Speaker 1: and secondly you couldn't get them back then. The second
Speaker 1: part was financial security and making sure we did what
Speaker 1: we could do to protect our airline and make sure
Speaker 1: that we could weather this pandemic. You know, Robert, what
Speaker 1: are your expectations for recovery? What kind of visibility do
Speaker 1: you have? You said, I think earlier that you know,
Speaker 1: we still have a ways to go. What's your visibility
Speaker 1: on this? Yeah, So we just uh, you know, quarter
Speaker 1: three we were burning just over six millions dollars of
Speaker 1: cash a day. Um, you know, for que quarter four,
Speaker 1: we think that's going to be slightly better, between between
Speaker 1: four to six million dollars a day. You know, that's
Speaker 1: sounds significantly from the second quarter, but of course it's
Speaker 1: not sustainable over the long term. And as we think
Speaker 1: about one one of the things that I think the
Speaker 1: airline industry believes is that leisure travel and domestic travel
Speaker 1: will cover more quickly than international travel or business travel.
Speaker 1: So focused on making sure that we have positioned well
Speaker 1: for that, we've announced over sixty new routes of Jet
Speaker 1: Blue during this pandemic, focusing on those sort of leisure
Speaker 1: markets and where we think people who want to fly
Speaker 1: in the short term, and I think about what are
Speaker 1: the necessary systems right after nine eleven. You know, now
Speaker 1: we've gotten used to taking off our shoes or putting
Speaker 1: liquids and containers, like it's just become the normal way
Speaker 1: of traveling. Robin, what do you see as some of
Speaker 1: the necessary systems that are going to be put in
Speaker 1: place and probably with us from now on because we
Speaker 1: could get another health pandemical crisis. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: there are some things that will change for for for good.
Speaker 1: And I think awareness of public health, a sort of
Speaker 1: pressure to make sure that if you're not feeling well
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that you don't fly airlines making it
Speaker 1: easier for people to change tickets so that they're not
Speaker 1: forced to fly when they're sick. And I remember the
Speaker 1: old days. I was going through some stuff the other
Speaker 1: day and I found the old vaccination certificates when I
Speaker 1: had as a child, because certain countries, you know, you
Speaker 1: have to show you had had a yellow fever vaccination
Speaker 1: and such like. And I think going forward, you know,
Speaker 1: I see a world. I think it will start with COVID,
Speaker 1: but I think we will create the infrastructure that we
Speaker 1: can use it for other pandemics using some of these
Speaker 1: tools and technologies where you know whether you have been vaccinated,
Speaker 1: whether you've had a recent test. These will be some
Speaker 1: of the requirements to fly to at least onto some countries,
Speaker 1: if not, if not more globally. I mean, I actually
Speaker 1: think in the way these international markets start opening up
Speaker 1: because everyone's focused on the vaccine. But the vaccine is
Speaker 1: only going to be part of this. You know, only
Speaker 1: certain proportion of people will take a vaccine. It's only
Speaker 1: partly affective. We can't rely on it, and so we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to have other ways of giving people comfort
Speaker 1: that they can fly on. An airplane goes away, they're
Speaker 1: going to go and they're gonna remain completely safe. That's
Speaker 1: Jeff Lucy Robin Hayes with an important reminder that it
Speaker 1: will be several measures that will need to bring passengers
Speaker 1: back to planes. By the way, that conversation happened before
Speaker 1: the promising vaccine news this week, which we know got
Speaker 1: many excited, but like Robin, reminded us that there are
Speaker 1: still several steps and months before we see a world
Speaker 1: vaccinated against the coronavirus. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: coming up some optimism with the reports of the vaccine
Speaker 1: efficacy from the Seiser Vaccine. Dr William Moss of the
Speaker 1: International Vaccine Access Center at Johns Hopkins on the race
Speaker 1: for a vaccine, that race picking up speed this week.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Mazer from Bloomberg Radio. COVID nineteen cases reached a record
Speaker 1: in the US. We were also watching Europe's hotspots as well.
Speaker 1: This week, a lot of virus headlines. And then Dr
Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci, the top US infectious disease official, said COVID
Speaker 1: won't be a pandemic for a lot longer because of
Speaker 1: rapid progress in vaccine development. A lot going on and
Speaker 1: in the thick of it. Dr William Moss, Executive director
Speaker 1: of the International Vaccine Access Center at the Johns Hopkins
Speaker 1: Bloomberg School of Public Health. That school, of course, supported
Speaker 1: by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Well.
Speaker 1: Dr Moss joined us on what's been a big week
Speaker 1: in the race for a vaccine. We are seeing record
Speaker 1: numbers of cases in the United States. We're seeing high
Speaker 1: numbers of deaths hospitals that are really being stretched to
Speaker 1: the limits, and that that pattern is going to continue
Speaker 1: for the next couple of months as we head into winter,
Speaker 1: more more people being indoors, more people interact indoors into
Speaker 1: the holiday season. But as you said there, we also
Speaker 1: have some optimism with the reports of the vaccine efficacy
Speaker 1: from the fist or vaccine being much higher than people
Speaker 1: look spected, recognizing that we only know about this through
Speaker 1: a press release presumably from a review of the data
Speaker 1: by an independent day if they monitoring board. But well,
Speaker 1: we still do not know right as as these headlines
Speaker 1: come out from a Fiser, we're anticipating some news from
Speaker 1: Maderna as well. That's promising. We don't know what how
Speaker 1: long protection lasts. We don't know exactly what these vaccine
Speaker 1: ultimately will do, right, That's right, There are still a
Speaker 1: number of outstanding questions. Then I have a confidence will
Speaker 1: be able to answer these questions. But what we know
Speaker 1: now is that in this late stage of these phase
Speaker 1: three clinical trials, with the results from the FISER vaccine
Speaker 1: demonstrating showing you know, high protection of people who got
Speaker 1: the vaccine were protected compared to the placebo group. Um,
Speaker 1: but as you said, there's still a number of outstanding questions.
Speaker 1: For example, we don't know what the vaccine efficacy is
Speaker 1: in older adults or people with underlying medical conditions that
Speaker 1: place them at higher risk for severe disease of COVID nineteen.
Speaker 1: That will come out of the trial results, but we
Speaker 1: don't know that now. We don't know how long this
Speaker 1: protection is gonna last. We hope it's gonna last year,
Speaker 1: years or more, um, But we just don't know, and
Speaker 1: that's going to take further follow of these participants in
Speaker 1: the trials Until we really know how long the protection lasts.
Speaker 1: We also won't know whether they're long term side effects. Um. Again,
Speaker 1: we need the longer follow up, We need the full
Speaker 1: trial data to be able to see that. But right now,
Speaker 1: what we'll be able to say is, in the short
Speaker 1: term this these vaccines look protective, vaccines look safe. At
Speaker 1: least that's what I'm hoping for. Well, yes, fingers crossed, right,
Speaker 1: Dr Molsa, what happens next? Um? You know, I do
Speaker 1: feel like you're all learning about I've said it before,
Speaker 1: how the sausage is made in terms of vaccine development, right,
Speaker 1: we're all talking about it so much and I know
Speaker 1: that there's some nervousness about the rapidity of the process,
Speaker 1: but we are learning about how it all happens. So
Speaker 1: what's kind of next here, Whether it's the Fiser vaccine,
Speaker 1: whether it's Maderna's vaccine. What are you anticipating how things
Speaker 1: play out over the next few weeks, a few months. Yes,
Speaker 1: and you're exactly right. I don't think there's ever been
Speaker 1: such public scrutiny of the vaccine development and evaluation products.
Speaker 1: What we anticipate happening next is that a company such
Speaker 1: as Fiser Maderna will need to put admit an application
Speaker 1: to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization
Speaker 1: so that these vaccines could be made available to high
Speaker 1: risk individuals as early as possible. What the Food and
Speaker 1: Drug Administration has put forth as guidelines is that the
Speaker 1: trials need to wait until at least half of the
Speaker 1: participants have had two months of follow up uh. Fiser
Speaker 1: anticipates that that's going to happen later this month or
Speaker 1: fourth week of November, and then they will be able
Speaker 1: to submit their application for an emergency use authorization to
Speaker 1: the f d A. The the all the trial data
Speaker 1: will then be reviewed by an independent body. Hopefully data
Speaker 1: will be made public. Hopefully this whole process will be transparent.
Speaker 1: We need that for the public's trust. UM and they
Speaker 1: would anticipate shortly after the application and this review process
Speaker 1: that there would be, assuming the safety and efficacy data
Speaker 1: hold up UM, that will have an emergency use authorization.
Speaker 1: Fiser says that they'll have forty fifty million doses ready
Speaker 1: to go UM by the end of this year. That's
Speaker 1: been one of the things that's allowed this process to
Speaker 1: be accelerated, that the manufacturing has has gone on with
Speaker 1: the studies. You know, there would have not be any
Speaker 1: any kind of changes to the vaccine that was used
Speaker 1: during the trials they but they have scaled up that manufacturing.
Speaker 1: That's Dr William Moss, executive director of the International Vaccine
Speaker 1: Access Center at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Speaker 1: The Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health supported by
Speaker 1: Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LP. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. Getting on the other side of COVID
Speaker 1: may create an opportunity for us to give American workers
Speaker 1: a leg up. More on that from the President of
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia FED. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week with Gerrol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. This week, in
Speaker 1: a Bloomberg Live event focusing on strengthening economic resiliency and
Speaker 1: the American worker, I talked with the President of the
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, Pat Harker Well. He and
Speaker 1: his team have been focusing on the importance of an
Speaker 1: equitable workforce recovery. It's something that can help get at
Speaker 1: the inequities in our current workforce. It's also sometimes just
Speaker 1: a matter of first looking at what workers really need.
Speaker 1: Workers want to a feel like they're valued and that
Speaker 1: they're rewarded for their work. And people who haven't made
Speaker 1: it yet, right, people who want to get into the
Speaker 1: middle class, uh, they they need a ladder up, They
Speaker 1: need to run up on the ladder. They feel frustrated.
Speaker 1: And that's not just in the urban centers. That's true
Speaker 1: across the country. I think about my district in rural Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: they feel the same way. So I think that's the
Speaker 1: work we're trying to do with the Philly FED is
Speaker 1: to figure out how to accelerate that process to bring
Speaker 1: more people into the middle class and we're gonna break
Speaker 1: it all down. What do you think about that in
Speaker 1: terms of a new administration, in terms of leadership, and
Speaker 1: in terms of really the meaningful policy discussions that we
Speaker 1: need to be having when it comes to workers. Because
Speaker 1: it's amazing, and you and I talked about this a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, in terms of forgotten workers. It's
Speaker 1: not just thing. It's been around for years exactly. And
Speaker 1: I think, first, I'm looking forward to having policy discussions, right,
Speaker 1: deep policy discussions, having a debate. This is the nature
Speaker 1: of our democracy, having that debate, and I think this
Speaker 1: is worthy of a serious debate. I think this is
Speaker 1: one of the most critical problems we have because if
Speaker 1: we don't solve this problem, then people lose hope, right
Speaker 1: and when they lose hope, lots of bad things happen,
Speaker 1: whether to their health or to the communities. So we've
Speaker 1: got to focus on this right now. So I also
Speaker 1: want to ask you one other macro, what is the
Speaker 1: economic backdrop that we're going to be dealing with as workers.
Speaker 1: One of the things I know we have a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations in our newsroom is workers are worried. They're
Speaker 1: either worried about keeping their job or they don't have
Speaker 1: a job. What's the what's the economic backdrop we're gonna
Speaker 1: be dealing with for the next six or twelve months,
Speaker 1: So start out quickly. Before the pandemic hit us, we
Speaker 1: had a strong economy. Wasn't perfect, it wasn't perfect for everyone,
Speaker 1: but it was strong. This pandemic has shown us a
Speaker 1: lot of problems that we have. Underlying problems we've had
Speaker 1: in our society, whether they're racial injustice and inequity, or
Speaker 1: just the fragility of somebody and their family in terms
Speaker 1: of their well being, that has now been exacerbated. Plus
Speaker 1: it's accelerated trends we already saw with respect to automation
Speaker 1: and other trends that we saw. So this pandemic, I
Speaker 1: think we're not just going to snap right back to
Speaker 1: the previous economy, and I think that's unrealistic. There are people, though,
Speaker 1: that need to be retrained. This is accelerated, for example,
Speaker 1: trends and retail. Right we've seen that. I don't think
Speaker 1: retail is going to come back in the same way.
Speaker 1: So we're going to have to figure out how to
Speaker 1: retrain that workforce and not just to get a different
Speaker 1: job at the same pay, but ideal I had a
Speaker 1: better job with higher skills. How worried are you about
Speaker 1: the US labor force when you think about it overall?
Speaker 1: Because you know what's interesting. I feel like if you
Speaker 1: go back to when the major auto companies right all
Speaker 1: over Detroit, I mean, you know, working in Afford plant
Speaker 1: or GM plant, that was a great middle class job,
Speaker 1: you supported your family. Well, those have been gone for
Speaker 1: a long time, and I feel like now we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna see another cycle of that hit the American worker.
Speaker 1: But it's up to us. I really believe. I'm an optimist.
Speaker 1: I'm an engineer by training. I'm an optimist. We can
Speaker 1: solve this problem. This is not some problem that can't
Speaker 1: be solved. If we put our minds to it and
Speaker 1: collectively put our minds for government, business, nonprofits, we can
Speaker 1: move this. And this is the work we're doing at
Speaker 1: the Philly FED that we can talk about. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about creating economic resiliency when it comes to American workers.
Speaker 1: You guys have a program. It's called the Economic Growth
Speaker 1: and Mobility Project UM And as you said, Pennsylvania, Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: you reminded me the poorest large city in the United States.
Speaker 1: So you guys have really been looking at your back
Speaker 1: yard in terms of what again has been a systemic problem.
Speaker 1: Tell us about this program and what you're doing. So
Speaker 1: it starts from decades of work we've done and a conference,
Speaker 1: a major conference we do every other year called Reinventing
Speaker 1: Our Communities, which I really like. This conference and brings
Speaker 1: together policymakers, academics, philanthropies, business leaders to mix it up
Speaker 1: to figure out how to come up with practical solutions
Speaker 1: to solve the problems we face. We then doubled down
Speaker 1: on that when we put together our Economic Growth and
Speaker 1: Mobility Project or what we call e g MP. E
Speaker 1: g MP has three legs to this school, uh, how
Speaker 1: to create a more resilient economy. One is creating good
Speaker 1: jobs we call opportunity occupations, jobs that pay above media wages,
Speaker 1: the middle class, jobs where you don't necessarily need a
Speaker 1: four year college degree, right, pathways to success that don't
Speaker 1: necessarily require a college degree. Second, innovation in skills training.
Speaker 1: And then third is I broadly actorize it as infrastructure, housing, transportation,
Speaker 1: broadband access. You can put health care access in that
Speaker 1: if you can't get to a job or the job
Speaker 1: can't get to you. You don't have a job. So
Speaker 1: you have to solve all three of these things together
Speaker 1: systemically to make a real difference. That's the work we're
Speaker 1: doing right now. Well, that's what you know, even just
Speaker 1: that whole idea of infrastructure. You gave us an example
Speaker 1: when you and I talked to getting ready for this,
Speaker 1: this conversation about you know, there were jobs, but people
Speaker 1: just couldn't physically get to them. Yeah. So the e
Speaker 1: g m P program has research on these three stools,
Speaker 1: and then we have what we call research and action labs,
Speaker 1: and these are deep dives into a community on a
Speaker 1: problem in that community. But we think it's a problem
Speaker 1: more broadly. Uh, people are suffering this all across the country.
Speaker 1: So the first one we took on was Northeast p A,
Speaker 1: Northeast pay A, the Scranton, wilks Bara Hazelton area. There
Speaker 1: were jobs out on the highways. There are logistics jobs,
Speaker 1: truck repair, our jobs, etcetera. And by the way, these
Speaker 1: jobs can be good jobs like truck repair, diesel mechanics
Speaker 1: can make upwards of six figures in these jobs. But
Speaker 1: the people low income people living and say the city
Speaker 1: of Scranton didn't have cars to get to those jobs,
Speaker 1: particularly second and third shift. So we organized a conference.
Speaker 1: We brought some national experts in, and then we helped
Speaker 1: organize a group with the local university at the heart
Speaker 1: of this to help solve that problem. They now have
Speaker 1: something called Neiper Moves Northeast PA Moves, and they're solving
Speaker 1: this problem. They're figuring out how to do. Is what
Speaker 1: I like about this story is Geisinger, the main health
Speaker 1: care system up there. They were all in on this.
Speaker 1: I mean, they were very supportive, but then they realized,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just about jobs. If somebody misses
Speaker 1: a doctor's appointment, it costs US seventy dollars when they
Speaker 1: added up the cost, and then they figured out it's
Speaker 1: worth it to us to help that person get to
Speaker 1: that doctor appointment. So they created a system where they
Speaker 1: help people get on transit to get there, and if
Speaker 1: there's a last mile or miles that need to be closed,
Speaker 1: they close it with an uber or van. That kind
Speaker 1: of creative thinking is what we need to spread across
Speaker 1: the country. It sounds like to that public private partnership.
Speaker 1: This is an important part of all of this. Is
Speaker 1: that fair yes, absolutely, absolutely. And the second one we're
Speaker 1: doing with respect to our action lab is around workforce development.
Speaker 1: A major tech company in Philadelphia partnering with the government
Speaker 1: Job Training Board to create a customized program to train
Speaker 1: workers that they need. And what's different about this, and
Speaker 1: we think this is the first of its kind in
Speaker 1: the US, is that firm is then reimbursing the government
Speaker 1: entity for every successful higher success being being successful in
Speaker 1: the job for several months. That's never really happened before.
Speaker 1: Here's a true public private partnership where it's not just
Speaker 1: in words, it's in the action and putting money on
Speaker 1: the table to help accelerate this process. How did COVID
Speaker 1: impact all of this, because I think about pre COVID,
Speaker 1: you know, we were looking at a really strong labor force.
Speaker 1: We didn't have enough workers out there. So how has
Speaker 1: COVID exacerbated this situation? What kind of setback um has
Speaker 1: been given to American workers as a result of it? So,
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, this pandemic that we're this tragic
Speaker 1: pandemic we're living through, has accelerated trends we already saw
Speaker 1: in training, right, so automation being one of those, and
Speaker 1: we know those jobs are being automated are often jobs
Speaker 1: held by low income people, by women, and by underrepresentative minorities.
Speaker 1: Are research that documents that, and there's others who have
Speaker 1: documented that as well. So that's just made the situation
Speaker 1: worse for people who are fragile, I mean, their situation
Speaker 1: economically is very fragile. And so here is where we
Speaker 1: really need to focus on retraining those people into different
Speaker 1: jobs as quickly as we can, and there are jobs
Speaker 1: for them. I mean. One of the studies that we did,
Speaker 1: which I'm really excited about, our economists and the economists
Speaker 1: at Cleveland FED looked at the following situation. They said,
Speaker 1: take a low skilled job that may be going away
Speaker 1: because of automation or because of the pandemics, they travel
Speaker 1: and tourism or hospitality. Map that skill set that they have,
Speaker 1: like a sales skill set they can sell to a
Speaker 1: higher paying job, and what's the skill set that you
Speaker 1: need the training that you need to do that. They
Speaker 1: looked at thirty three metro areas across the US and
Speaker 1: roughly half the jobs they could match from one skill
Speaker 1: set to a higher skill set with an average increase
Speaker 1: in salary. Annual salary of fifteen thousand dollars increase in salary.
Speaker 1: So this is real. That's the opportunity if we just
Speaker 1: work together to make this halt and what we need
Speaker 1: to stop. And in the UH skill workforce training business,
Speaker 1: there's a phrase that people use called the train and
Speaker 1: pray model, and the tree King pray model is basically,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we think this is the skill set the
Speaker 1: market needs. We're going to train them and then we're
Speaker 1: gonna pray that they get a job. That we need
Speaker 1: to break the back up train and pray model. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a year that has reminded us big time
Speaker 1: that we cannot afford to do that on so many levels.
Speaker 1: That's some advice from the President of the Federal Reserve
Speaker 1: Bank of Philadelphia, Pat Harker. That wraps up the first
Speaker 1: hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser. Coming up tech entrepreneur Jim McKelvey,
Speaker 1: co founder of Square and founder of Invisibly on getting
Speaker 1: election polling right. Also the Academy Award winning filmmaker. He's
Speaker 1: covered Enron, COVID and now Crazy Not Insane Minds. We
Speaker 1: check in with Alex Gibney. That's coming up on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Garrel Masser from Bloomberg Radio high Carol Masser. Coming
Speaker 1: up in this second hour of the weekend edition of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. We've got highlights from our daily radio show,
Speaker 1: including stories in the magazine and some of our favorite interviews,
Speaker 1: including Square co founder Jim McKelvey on creating new election
Speaker 1: polling technology that well actually gets it right. Go figure.
Speaker 1: Plus Verizon Business CEO Tammy Irwin on keeping tabs when
Speaker 1: it comes to COVID burnout among her ranks. And Oscar
Speaker 1: Award winning documentary filmmaker Alex Gibney on his latest HBO project,
Speaker 1: Crazy Not Insane. First up, all week long, the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Terminal filled with stories about a Biden administration, the team,
Speaker 1: and the policies in keeping with that. A story in
Speaker 1: the magazine from Bloomberg Business Week Economics editor Peter Coy
Speaker 1: about Biden nomics and how that would be a return
Speaker 1: to normalcy. Here's more from Peter. Bloomberg Business Week editor
Speaker 1: Jill Weber. One of the scenarios that we had to
Speaker 1: uh kind of planned for last week was you know,
Speaker 1: eventually and ended up coming on Saturday. You know, what,
Speaker 1: what what does this country look like under President elect Biden?
Speaker 1: And more specifically, what does it mean for business and
Speaker 1: the economy and and for that? You know, Peter Um
Speaker 1: you know, definitely raised his hand and said I think
Speaker 1: I know, uh, And we said, oh, please tell us.
Speaker 1: So So, Peter, what's your what's your thesis for what
Speaker 1: biden Omics means for America? Well, it comes out of
Speaker 1: what we know about Joe Biden, his long history in
Speaker 1: Congress and Senate, and his personality, Uh, and the circumstances
Speaker 1: the country is in right now. So you you strapy
Speaker 1: from all those things and you come up with a
Speaker 1: fairly centrist person in a country that is divided. Um,
Speaker 1: he did win, but uh, there are a lot of people,
Speaker 1: the Republicans that are likely to control the Senate. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people out there who voted for him,
Speaker 1: who mainly were voting A ends Trump and more for
Speaker 1: personality reasons than policy reasons. So he doesn't have like
Speaker 1: a strong mandate A and let me do it Biden's
Speaker 1: way number one and number two, Um, number two is
Speaker 1: that even if he did want to advance a strong
Speaker 1: Democratic platform. Mitch McConnell is very likely to retain the
Speaker 1: position of cinema jury leader. Won't let him the same
Speaker 1: way he blocked Obama's agenda when Biden was a VP.
Speaker 1: So I gotta say, Peter, love your story. As always,
Speaker 1: we always learned so much. But I do wonder so
Speaker 1: as you point out, you know, divided Congress and a
Speaker 1: Republican Senate with the Democrat in the White House, could
Speaker 1: be good for the markets and corporate profits, right, but
Speaker 1: what does it mean for the economy and economic policies. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: let's first start out with why the stock market seem
Speaker 1: to like it. Um. You might have thought that because
Speaker 1: the chi the chan of a strong stimulus faded a
Speaker 1: little bit, because the Republican Senate might have given a
Speaker 1: big if Trump had gotten reelected, might have voted for
Speaker 1: a big package just to bolster their man. Less likely
Speaker 1: to do so if it's a Biden white House. Uh. Similarly,
Speaker 1: there would have been a big package if Democrats had
Speaker 1: taken the Senate and Biden at once, and with divided
Speaker 1: government you get probably less stimulus. That's a short term thing,
Speaker 1: but it could be that what was happening. The financial
Speaker 1: markets were looking ahead to the prospect of smaller tax
Speaker 1: increase than they would have had if the Democrats had
Speaker 1: taken the Senate, which seemed like a real possibility for
Speaker 1: a while there. Peter, can we also talk about taxes?
Speaker 1: What what what do we expect from Biden on that front? Well, well,
Speaker 1: we can say what he said he wants to do,
Speaker 1: which is insulate people earning less than four hundred thousand
Speaker 1: dollars a year from any tax increase. Uh and raised
Speaker 1: the corporate income tax rate, which was cut under the
Speaker 1: Trump tax cut from thirty five. The right was on
Speaker 1: the world's highest. Well, there's a lot of loopholes in
Speaker 1: it that made it effectively lower in there, but still
Speaker 1: that headline rate was quite high at twenty one. It's
Speaker 1: it's right in the ballpark, maybe on the low side
Speaker 1: among the other rich industrialized nations. Biden's talking about putting
Speaker 1: back up at twenty eight um, so splitting the difference
Speaker 1: between the old one and the new one. It's also talking,
Speaker 1: by the way, for people in the New York metro
Speaker 1: area who are listening to this program, lifting the cap
Speaker 1: on the salt on deductions to make it that would
Speaker 1: be a break for people. Can I just say having
Speaker 1: um embarrassed, but filing on extension, just getting it done.
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see if we have some changes
Speaker 1: and from one of those Blue states where we were
Speaker 1: impacted certainly when it came to some of those local taxes.
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting is did you say Trump did
Speaker 1: get a lot of things done, even if you didn't
Speaker 1: agree with how he did it. So what do we
Speaker 1: need to think about in terms of those things that
Speaker 1: he did get done well? Um, one of the things
Speaker 1: he did was he got um tougher on China and
Speaker 1: the obsolutely a lot of tariffs. And there are a
Speaker 1: lot of Democrats who think it was time to get
Speaker 1: tough on China's the thoughts the Obama administration, which Biden
Speaker 1: worked for, of course did not do enough, but they
Speaker 1: don't necessarily agree with the way Trump went about it. Um.
Speaker 1: What what Trump did was trying to basically go it Alan.
Speaker 1: So he didn't just take on China. He sort of
Speaker 1: took on the world, and that alienated a lot of allies,
Speaker 1: the Japanese, the Europeans who could have been on America's
Speaker 1: side presenting a united front against China and So one
Speaker 1: of the things Biden is almost certain to do is
Speaker 1: to uh, you know, bolster America's role in the World
Speaker 1: Trade Organization and uh see about entering multilateral trade deals.
Speaker 1: He's not likely to roll back the tariffs on China
Speaker 1: um that Trump put on anytime soon, because he would
Speaker 1: want to see you know, you want to get something
Speaker 1: for any anything you give back. And China is not
Speaker 1: likely to budget a lot either, So don't it. Don't
Speaker 1: expect the temperature to cool a whole lot between the
Speaker 1: US and China under a Biden administration, let alone the
Speaker 1: issue that the Democrats will push a lot harder on
Speaker 1: the human rights angle. Well, as we know Democrats and
Speaker 1: Republicans pushing this week on so many different things as
Speaker 1: we look to the next era when it comes to
Speaker 1: Washington politics and a new administration. Again. That was Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week Economics editor Peter Coy and Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: editor Joe Weber. Check more in the magazine for stories
Speaker 1: from Peter. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up,
Speaker 1: Square co founder Jim McKelvey on technology that may fix
Speaker 1: what ails our election polling. This is Bob, This is
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Pierrol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. We're
Speaker 1: bringing you some of our favorite interviews and highlights from
Speaker 1: this week on Bloomberg Business Week Radio, and this week
Speaker 1: we welcome back Jim McKelvey. He's co founder of Square.
Speaker 1: He's still on the board there. He's also author of
Speaker 1: the Innovation Stack, Building an Unbeatable business, one crazy idea
Speaker 1: at a time. He's also founder and chairman of the St.
Speaker 1: Louis based Invisibly is, an independent data center company. Jim
Speaker 1: was also Deputy chair of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.
Speaker 1: He's a pretty busy guy. But what we really wanted
Speaker 1: to drill down on is his company, Invisibly and its
Speaker 1: accuracy on polling this election season. Check it out when
Speaker 1: Visibly is a company that's mission is to get people
Speaker 1: more control of their online data. And in the process
Speaker 1: of building that, we built this little tool that did surveys.
Speaker 1: We didn't think much of it, but some Republican strategists
Speaker 1: got ahold of it about six months ago and they
Speaker 1: did a little test and discovered that the tool was
Speaker 1: shockingly accurate. So from a little two thousand dollar tests,
Speaker 1: the Republicans ended up spending well over a million dollars
Speaker 1: doing polls with this technology. And as you as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: I'm on the federal Reserve. I am politically neutral, so
Speaker 1: my job is to see both sides well informed. And
Speaker 1: I did my best to reach out and share this
Speaker 1: news with both sides, and amazingly, the Democrats didn't listen.
Speaker 1: They didn't pay any attention at all. And I have
Speaker 1: several stories of this, but I mean the fact is
Speaker 1: that we've been able to call the election too within
Speaker 1: um a quarter point. And if you compare the data
Speaker 1: that for instance five thirty eight, which is sort of
Speaker 1: an aggregation of the best polls did, they were off
Speaker 1: by almost three points. So it's nine times more accurate
Speaker 1: and frankly, way less expensive. And I just couldn't believe
Speaker 1: people weren't listening to us. Well, so how come, I mean, listen,
Speaker 1: you guys are all in on on data because you
Speaker 1: knew Ohio was going to be close. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really pretty pretty wild Arizona could be or would be
Speaker 1: a swing. So what was it about? And I know
Speaker 1: you can't give away all your secrets, but what was
Speaker 1: it about the data collection, the types of data, or
Speaker 1: the algorithms. What was it, generally speaking, that you think
Speaker 1: made it a better predictor? I think the best way
Speaker 1: to describe it is, it's like manners um. For instance,
Speaker 1: if somebody asks you a question and they're rude, you
Speaker 1: don't answer it. If somebody ask you the exact same
Speaker 1: question and they're polite and respectful, you might give them
Speaker 1: an answer. And I mean, I mean, manners is one
Speaker 1: of these subtle things. I got two kids at home
Speaker 1: time obsessed with teach you good manners. And it's it's
Speaker 1: a hard thing. You can't just describe it in two
Speaker 1: seconds of a sound bite. But the fact is, it's
Speaker 1: who you ask, it's the way you ask, it's the
Speaker 1: question you ask, and it's when you ask. And all
Speaker 1: of these things, if they're handled correctly, can get you
Speaker 1: a very honest, accurate answer. So did you in terms
Speaker 1: of doing this and developing this, Jim, you know, look
Speaker 1: at past polls and kind of how they did it
Speaker 1: to figure out maybe what was a better way? No,
Speaker 1: and and and funny enough, this is sort of what
Speaker 1: I talked about in the innovation stack of my book,
Speaker 1: And that is a lot of times when you stumble
Speaker 1: on something new because you didn't copy what everybody else
Speaker 1: was doing, and we were not intending to be a
Speaker 1: polling company like this is not visibly it's not our
Speaker 1: job on this thing. That was shockingly accurate, and so, uh,
Speaker 1: we went with it, but it was it was an
Speaker 1: accidental discovery, you know, sort of like a lot of stuff. Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting that you say this too though. Um. One
Speaker 1: of our colleagues, David Weston, had caught up with Frank Lance,
Speaker 1: who's well known for his polling, but he said, we
Speaker 1: need to figure out a different way and that you know,
Speaker 1: whether it was folks supported Donald Trump maybe didn't want
Speaker 1: to talk to certain polls because they didn't like the
Speaker 1: media outlet or didn't like the approach exactly. That what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, and that definitely skews the numbers. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of things that skew the numbers.
Speaker 1: It's when you ask, it's the way you ask, it's
Speaker 1: the question we ask. It's whether or not people feel
Speaker 1: safe and um, well, you put somebody in a stressful
Speaker 1: situation or you feel like they're being judged, they're not
Speaker 1: going to tell you the truth. Yeah, it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 1: Well so then so what do you think about that
Speaker 1: in terms of applications going forward? You, as you said,
Speaker 1: kind of an accidental business. You didn't plan this is this,
Speaker 1: you know, you anticipate kind of pushing this out as
Speaker 1: a business even more, Well, I just think it's good
Speaker 1: for the world, Like I think, if not just politics,
Speaker 1: I think knowing the subtleties of how your message is
Speaker 1: being received by people is super important. And we just
Speaker 1: proved it big time by you know, this is an election,
Speaker 1: we get got to call our shots. So we made
Speaker 1: our predictions, posted them up, everyone can see them, and
Speaker 1: sure enough they were within a quarter point, you know.
Speaker 1: So so I I think the application here is anyone
Speaker 1: that has to communicate can now judge the effectiveness of
Speaker 1: that communication in almost real time. How does the world
Speaker 1: look to you, jam right now? What kind of visibility
Speaker 1: do you have? Um? When we try to think about
Speaker 1: the virus, the economy, kind of the election, there's just
Speaker 1: so many big things going on right now. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: happy the election is over. Um, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: as as somebody who's you know, sort of looked through
Speaker 1: the virus, both as a small business person, as somebody
Speaker 1: who's you know, funding vaccine research. And watching the data
Speaker 1: at the FED. Um, I have to say this, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's actually fairly hopeful. We had a solid economy
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. And this is the first time we've
Speaker 1: ever taken a robust economy and voluntarily shut it down
Speaker 1: for health reasons. So that's never been done before in history.
Speaker 1: And what I'm literally looking at the data that I'm
Speaker 1: going to present to the the Federal Reserved in about
Speaker 1: ten minutes, and UM, we've you know, do the data
Speaker 1: here in St. Louis, and it's not terrible like it's
Speaker 1: it's it's obviously very very bad for certain people, but
Speaker 1: the economy does seem to be, you know, bouncing back,
Speaker 1: So that's that's a good thing. Um. You know. The
Speaker 1: other thing not to be too you know, sort of
Speaker 1: upbeat about this is that, you know, times of crises
Speaker 1: are really good at accelerating trends that are going to
Speaker 1: come anyway. So if we would all be doing zoom
Speaker 1: meetings five years from now, now, we're all doing zoom
Speaker 1: meetings today. So it's a great time for UM innovation
Speaker 1: and companies who are building the future really have a
Speaker 1: pronounced advantage during times of crises. It can be uncomfortable
Speaker 1: then as we go it right, that dislocation, as we
Speaker 1: go through, it's always uncomfortable. But but see that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Doing something new was always uncomfortable. But if you're doing
Speaker 1: something new, one of the hardest things. And I guess
Speaker 1: we just talked about that with our you know, polling technology,
Speaker 1: Like we just this great new polling technology and and
Speaker 1: I couldn't get anybody to listen to us. Okay, I
Speaker 1: totally failed. And I you know, I've been at this
Speaker 1: for a while, and I know a bunch of important people,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't do it. And that's the thing. If
Speaker 1: you build something new, one of the most frustrating things
Speaker 1: is the world we ignore it. And if things are
Speaker 1: going well and um, right now, if you have a
Speaker 1: new invention, you have the chance of getting people to
Speaker 1: notice it far better than they would under normal circumstances.
Speaker 1: Because when when things are normal, you do what you
Speaker 1: did yesterday. You don't look for new stuff. You don't change.
Speaker 1: When when the world is imploding and you're living at
Speaker 1: home and your kids are driving it crazy because you're homeschooling,
Speaker 1: like that's the time you actually look out and said, hey,
Speaker 1: is there any other options. So, if you're in the
Speaker 1: business of innovation, which is always messy, it's a good
Speaker 1: thing to be in somewhat of a crisis well MESSI
Speaker 1: that we certainly are, and we've heard that a lot
Speaker 1: too from global leaders that in times of crisis it
Speaker 1: often sparks innovation. Good to hear from. Jim McKelvey, co
Speaker 1: founder of Square, author of The Innovation Stack, Building an
Speaker 1: Unbeatable Business, one crazy idea at a time check out
Speaker 1: his book. Is also founder and chairman of Invisibly Here.
Speaker 1: That full conversation at Bloomberg dot Com coming up Verizon
Speaker 1: Businesses CEO Tammy Irwin, unemployee burnout and leadership during unprecedented times.
Speaker 1: That's next on Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Mazer from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Our final half hour, we're gonna talk about mental well being.
Speaker 1: Although let me put this out there, we've got two
Speaker 1: very different sides of that. First up at a Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Live breakaway town hall and as part of an ongoing
Speaker 1: leadership series in the era of remote work, this time
Speaker 1: with a specific focus on burnout and employee mental health.
Speaker 1: I checked in with Verizon Business Executive Vice president and
Speaker 1: CEO Tammy Irwin, who, because she has workers and customers
Speaker 1: around the globe, has been dealing with the virus since January.
Speaker 1: I began with how the ongoing pandemic is increasingly taking
Speaker 1: its toll on workers at many companies. Here's what she
Speaker 1: had to say, because I think about where we are,
Speaker 1: almost a year into this crisis. What started as a
Speaker 1: I think a physical health crisis, I think is increasingly
Speaker 1: becoming a mental health crisis for all of us as
Speaker 1: we think about kind of the duration of the COVID
Speaker 1: crisis and the uncertainty of how long it continues for um.
Speaker 1: I think about when it first started, in the first
Speaker 1: half of the year. I think we all thought, if
Speaker 1: we just get to summer, it will be over. And
Speaker 1: then I think we thought we can get through summer
Speaker 1: and we can get to school, the school, your kids
Speaker 1: to go back to school. And now we're like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: what when does it end? And we've had to really
Speaker 1: focus our efforts on how do we create a sense
Speaker 1: of hope, how do we acknowledge the anxiety and stress
Speaker 1: that people are feeling, and then how do we try
Speaker 1: to build an environment that allows our employees to do
Speaker 1: what they do so well, which is great resiliency. And
Speaker 1: i'd be clear on what success looks like so that
Speaker 1: they can lean in and feel confident that what they're
Speaker 1: doing is making a difference in defining the purpose of
Speaker 1: what they do every day. So, Terry, how do you
Speaker 1: do that? Okay? So mental wellness? I know when you
Speaker 1: and I talked last week, we live in a society
Speaker 1: as evolved as we are that it's still uncomfortable for
Speaker 1: a lot of people to say. It's easy for me
Speaker 1: to say I've got to go to the doctor. I've
Speaker 1: got something physically wrong. But when there's something in my
Speaker 1: head that's not quite right, it's hard for us to admit.
Speaker 1: As a society, how do you do especially when we
Speaker 1: can't even face to face. We've got to do it virtually.
Speaker 1: So how do you keep tabs on your teams that
Speaker 1: some of the individuals who maybe having a tough time? Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: I think it takes a series of things to really
Speaker 1: open up that dialogue and conversation. You're right, it's not
Speaker 1: a conversation. We want to have an open We tend
Speaker 1: to whisper like, oh, I think somebody is having a
Speaker 1: hard time. I think historically that's how we've dealt with it.
Speaker 1: And I think that what we're seeing is that we
Speaker 1: really have to put mental illness, stress, anxiety, suicide, addiction,
Speaker 1: all of those things into the middle of the table
Speaker 1: and realize that they impact and affect everybody. And the
Speaker 1: way that we collectively show up on behalf of how
Speaker 1: we lift each other up and acknowledge and recognize the stress,
Speaker 1: care for it, help people get the resources that they
Speaker 1: need to be successful has been really important. We've actually
Speaker 1: in our series of communication that we call up to Speed,
Speaker 1: which is how we communicate broadly to our employees around
Speaker 1: the world, and we open end up quite frankly to
Speaker 1: anyone who wants to participate. But we've done a lot
Speaker 1: of highlighting of some of the challenges around mental health,
Speaker 1: around suicide, around domestic violence, around child abuse, around addiction,
Speaker 1: to really say, these are real and they're happening in
Speaker 1: increasing odds because of what we've all been through in
Speaker 1: the last year, and here are the resources that are
Speaker 1: available to you and to your family into the community
Speaker 1: in which we live. And I think that's so important
Speaker 1: that we put a spotlight on it and make it
Speaker 1: okay to talk about so you know too though, Like
Speaker 1: I work for a great company too, and there's tons
Speaker 1: of resources, And there's one thing about knowing that there's
Speaker 1: an array of resources is another thing of making sure
Speaker 1: people kind of reach out and and tap into it.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious whether it's through your line managers, how
Speaker 1: are you making where somebody says you seem like you're
Speaker 1: having a tough time, I want you to, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of either push them and help them in terms
Speaker 1: of finding what they need. How do you make sure
Speaker 1: basically that people who are having a tough time like
Speaker 1: up into the array of resources that you guys are
Speaker 1: offering up. Yeah, I think that's a very fair question
Speaker 1: of how do you really make sure it's doing And
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that you always know
Speaker 1: that it's happening, But I can tell you that some
Speaker 1: of the framework that we've created has said, we've done
Speaker 1: a quarterly pulse service, so we've asked our employees directly,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling, what more do you need from
Speaker 1: us as an employer to really deal with the crisis
Speaker 1: that you're in. We've asked managers to then go through
Speaker 1: that feedback and work an action plan with their team
Speaker 1: more broadly and with people individually. We've also used our
Speaker 1: performance management cycler Quarterly Cyclic Performance Manage to really touch
Speaker 1: in with employees and say, how are you feeling about
Speaker 1: your work environment? Thank you for inviting us into your
Speaker 1: home to work over the last six months, because that's
Speaker 1: really what employees have done. We've found ways to celebrate
Speaker 1: the kids, the cats, and the dogs that are in
Speaker 1: the background of the zoom calls that we're all in.
Speaker 1: We've tried to ask parents to take some time to
Speaker 1: help ed ucate their kids when they get up and
Speaker 1: get started in the morning. Uh. And so we've really
Speaker 1: worked to try to create that one to one relationship,
Speaker 1: the team relationship, and then a broader framework of the
Speaker 1: tools that are available. You only know that if you
Speaker 1: asked the question, and we've created a dialogue of uncomfortable
Speaker 1: conversations for the purpose of getting comfortable that our employees
Speaker 1: have what they need to really feel successful. That's Tammy Irwin,
Speaker 1: executive vice president and CEO Verizon Business Group at a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg lie Breakaway town hall this week. It's all about
Speaker 1: leadership and safe to say, it's been a year of
Speaker 1: all of us needing to get comfortable about having uncomfortable
Speaker 1: conversations about really important issues. Whether you're a leader or
Speaker 1: whether you're an employee, we've all got to start talking
Speaker 1: about it straight ahead. On Bloomberg Business Week, we're going
Speaker 1: to stay with mental health, but truly transparent here, it's
Speaker 1: a different perspective. Academy Award winning director Alex Gibney on
Speaker 1: his new HBO documentary Crazy Not Insane. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Mazer from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: So let's wrap up this week. As we know, we
Speaker 1: are living in a world where we are talking a
Speaker 1: lot more about our physical and mental well being. With
Speaker 1: that in mind, a new HBO documentary looks at the
Speaker 1: minds of a specific group that exists in our population
Speaker 1: and basically asks what makes killers kill? Yeah, I bet
Speaker 1: I got your attention on that one, all right. Oscar
Speaker 1: winning filmmaker Alex Gibney joined us on that. He's founder
Speaker 1: of Jigsaw Pictures. He's the filmmaker behind I Bet You
Speaker 1: Know These Films and Ron the Smartest Guys in the Room.
Speaker 1: He's also done documentaries on Wiki Leaks and Elliott Spitzer.
Speaker 1: His new documentary is called Crazy Not Insane. We're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about that, but first up, I had to check
Speaker 1: in with him about how his world has been under COVID.
Speaker 1: We found ways of editing remotely, and we even pioneered,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, myself and two colleagues just finished
Speaker 1: the film about the you know, federal response to COVID
Speaker 1: totally under control, and we pioneered a new kind of
Speaker 1: camera called the COVID cam, which enabled people to actually
Speaker 1: get a camera on their doorstep and we can remotely
Speaker 1: monitor it via the via the web, and no human
Speaker 1: beings contact with each other. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Is that?
Speaker 1: That's not out yet? Is it? It is? It came up,
Speaker 1: It came up. It was on Hulu. Um, it still
Speaker 1: is on Hulu. Came up, but it it came out
Speaker 1: just before the election round October fifteam. All right, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I've been a little distracted because I go on my apologies,
Speaker 1: So tell me about your documentary, Crazy Not Insane. To
Speaker 1: be fair, I've seen a trailer, so, um, I've seen
Speaker 1: a little clip it of it, a clip of it.
Speaker 1: You know, you follow the work of a notable psychiatrist
Speaker 1: who has assisted a number of high profile killers like
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, Mark David Chapman. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about her and how you came to kind of do
Speaker 1: this documentary. Her name is Dorothy Ought now Lewis, and
Speaker 1: I came to her as part of research for a
Speaker 1: scripted project I'm doing with Lord dern Uh and Laura
Speaker 1: came to me with a notion of wanting to do
Speaker 1: something about psychiatrists whose job it is to examine UH
Speaker 1: inmates on death row and determine whether they are sane
Speaker 1: enough to be executed um and which is kind of
Speaker 1: a crazy idea in and of itself. And so in
Speaker 1: doing research for that, I I was looking for prototypes
Speaker 1: for this character and found of Dorothy. And Dorothy had
Speaker 1: written a book about her experiences. But um she was
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist who, after studying juveniles for many, many years,
Speaker 1: stumbled into the world of testifying on behalf of usually
Speaker 1: defense attorneys, either in trials or for death penalty appeals
Speaker 1: and UH and pioneering a new kind of research into
Speaker 1: the minds of killers UH and trying to determine how
Speaker 1: and why, well not so much, how more why they
Speaker 1: kill UM and and so it became a kind of
Speaker 1: fascinating tour through um through Dorothy's work, who was a
Speaker 1: kind of detective of the mind. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: want to give it all the way because I want
Speaker 1: people to go watch it. But I mean, what was
Speaker 1: she like? I mean, this is this is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean the subject matter is just fascinating, but I'm
Speaker 1: curious what she was like and and um in terms
Speaker 1: of the process of her going about this, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is pretty gruesome stuff. It is grewesome stuff. And
Speaker 1: and when you meet her, I mean, Dorothy is a
Speaker 1: sort of a bubbly lady. She's now over eighty, but
Speaker 1: she's still full of energy and vitality. As a sort
Speaker 1: of mischievous glint in her eye. Was that there's a
Speaker 1: line of a novel who was born with a gift
Speaker 1: for laughter in a sense that the world was mad.
Speaker 1: That's Dorothy Lewis. And uh and and so she has fun.
Speaker 1: She has these hairless cats. But she is at her desk,
Speaker 1: which is a table in her living room. She's surrounded
Speaker 1: by an ocean of papers. Um, and she's just a
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most curious people I've ever met.
Speaker 1: But she's curious in this peculiar area of trying to
Speaker 1: understand human violence, and that led her certainly down some
Speaker 1: very dark paths and indeed led her into some chambers
Speaker 1: with people like Ted Bundy, Um, you know alone, um,
Speaker 1: serial killers between her and the door, with only her
Speaker 1: persuasive powers as a psychiatrist to protect her, right. You know,
Speaker 1: I do wonder, Alex, and I want to go back
Speaker 1: to you mentioned your documentary on COVID Totally under Control,
Speaker 1: and I was just talking with Um, one of our
Speaker 1: news anchors do Prisoner, and you know, we're talking about
Speaker 1: it's kind of staggering in the face of all the evidence,
Speaker 1: of scientific medical evidence that's out there about the virus.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious, in doing this documentary why you
Speaker 1: think that people are half in such a hard time
Speaker 1: believing in the virus and even leading up to the election,
Speaker 1: and even after Donald Trump had the virus, he had
Speaker 1: a lot of supporters still and thinking he was doing
Speaker 1: a good job at it. Well, there are two separate things.
Speaker 1: I mean, one is he was he was trying very
Speaker 1: hard to convince his followers and you'd almost have to
Speaker 1: call him followers that the virus wasn't really that real
Speaker 1: or that dangerous, even though we now know he knew
Speaker 1: it was UM. But the doing a good job, that's
Speaker 1: the part I have a harder time understanding. If anybody
Speaker 1: watches totally under control, you will see forensically exactly how
Speaker 1: bad a job he did. You couldn't between him and
Speaker 1: Jared Kushner. You couldn't imagine anybody doing the worst job
Speaker 1: if they had actually tried UM. So that's just a
Speaker 1: matter of competence, I mean utterly incompetent. And as a result,
Speaker 1: you know, too, what are we at? What are in
Speaker 1: thirty five thousand dead now? Um and count We compare?
Speaker 1: We compare the United States with South Korea, which discovered
Speaker 1: their first COVID positive patient on the same day January.
Speaker 1: But Southria very quickly to contain the virus, never had
Speaker 1: to shut down its economy. And it's a it's a
Speaker 1: country of fifty one million people. To date, less than
Speaker 1: five people have died. So you know, you can it
Speaker 1: can be done. You just have to be disciplined about it.
Speaker 1: You have to have a government that believes in science.
Speaker 1: You have to have a government that believes in taking
Speaker 1: steps to protect its people and to engage all its citizens.
Speaker 1: Uh in trying to fight the virus instead of trying
Speaker 1: to fight each other. You know, Alex One thing I
Speaker 1: do wonder and I mentioned kind of coming in. You know,
Speaker 1: your latest documentary crazy not insane, and you're taking a
Speaker 1: look at serial killers. But you've done you know, documentaries
Speaker 1: on and Ron, You've done them on Wiki leaks, You've
Speaker 1: done them on the history of the rock group the Eagles. Uh,
Speaker 1: You've done them on a lot of different subjects. How
Speaker 1: do you decide what to work on? Is it just
Speaker 1: something you come across? Is it kind of random, like
Speaker 1: when Laura Dern, who we've talked to on our air
Speaker 1: two and you know, fascinating of these conversations, and you
Speaker 1: can go a lot of different places. Is it just
Speaker 1: you kind of run into something accidentally, or I don't
Speaker 1: know what's your approach. It's all as difference all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do they say, luck is where opportunity
Speaker 1: means a prepared mind. So sometimes I just get lucky, um,
Speaker 1: but sometimes I go seeking something UM. In this case,
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't intending necessarily to make a documentary,
Speaker 1: but I just became so interested in Dr Lewis and
Speaker 1: also Dr also Dorothy's she had these videotapes of her
Speaker 1: examinations of a number of serial killers. Uh, and those
Speaker 1: were pretty compelling, particularly because a number of them have
Speaker 1: um dissociative identity disorder what we used to call multiple
Speaker 1: personality disorder, and you can see people switch from personalities
Speaker 1: personality in the middle of the examination. So that was
Speaker 1: pretty interesting stuff. And and and so I realized, well,
Speaker 1: that's that could be a film there. And usually I
Speaker 1: have a number of films on the boil at any
Speaker 1: particular time, and we'll advance them a little bit to
Speaker 1: see if there's more to be done, and and if
Speaker 1: it seems like there is, then we'll push forward. I
Speaker 1: would imagine in a lot of these documentaries, like there
Speaker 1: are so many rabbit holes, Like this happens to me
Speaker 1: all the time. Somebody says something and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm going down a rabbit hole and I'm lost for
Speaker 1: a long time. But I would just think even coming
Speaker 1: across those films, right and watching her do your examinations,
Speaker 1: you could just kind of probably watch them for hours
Speaker 1: to some extent, because it's kind of fascinating and just
Speaker 1: you know, kind of understanding how she works and how
Speaker 1: she's trying to understand this you know, group of people
Speaker 1: and what the commonalities are well, right, And what she
Speaker 1: ultimately ends up understanding is that a deep dive into
Speaker 1: serial killers or even just plain old murderers as she
Speaker 1: calls them, you know, actually takes us to a kind
Speaker 1: of a universal place, and that is childhood. Because you know,
Speaker 1: basically her unified field theory is you'll get an incredibly
Speaker 1: violent person if you have a mixture of frontal lobe damage.
Speaker 1: That is to say, she would say, cutting the reins
Speaker 1: on the horse, so you know, not so much um,
Speaker 1: you know, whole on the limbic system to keep uh,
Speaker 1: keep relentless urges from from acting on and then usually
Speaker 1: some kind of terrible physical or sexual abuse as a
Speaker 1: chot um and which which often is what leads to
Speaker 1: these multiple personalities. And if you have a combination of
Speaker 1: those two things, you usually get where you don't always get.
Speaker 1: But if you look at a murderer, you will almost
Speaker 1: always find a combination of those two things. Not everybody
Speaker 1: who has that combination ends up as a murderers. Flipping
Speaker 1: it around, right, right, it's not necessarily check the boxes,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, the causality or you're gonna lead
Speaker 1: to that. Hey, one thing before we go. Um, we
Speaker 1: are often fascinated here at Bloomberg or just about kind
Speaker 1: of the financial aspect of making films. And I know
Speaker 1: we've talked with a lot of minorities that's sometimes hard
Speaker 1: to get money. And I do wonder is it still
Speaker 1: hard for you or because you have one awards, you're noted,
Speaker 1: you're known. Um, you know, you've done projects that people
Speaker 1: know of. You've got to proven track record, you know.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to funding and support, is it
Speaker 1: easily there or does it take work? It always takes work.
Speaker 1: I mean it's easier um and and and if you
Speaker 1: have a reputational body work, it's easier. But I can
Speaker 1: tell you like five projects I've had turned down this year.
Speaker 1: So it always takes hard work. That never stops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we hear that a lot from those in the documentary
Speaker 1: and filmmaking industry. Always a lot of hard work to
Speaker 1: find the funding for your next project. That's Oscar waiting
Speaker 1: filmmaker Alex Gibney his documentary Crazy Not Insane, debuting this Wednesday,
Speaker 1: November eight HBO and check out that full conversation on
Speaker 1: our podcast feed that wraps up the weekend edition of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser. Be
Speaker 1: sure to tune in daily to Bloomberg Business Week Monday
Speaker 1: through Friday, starting at two pm Wall Street Time on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. You can also hear more of our Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week conversations. Download them at Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check
Speaker 1: us out on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and
Speaker 1: catch up Bloomberg Business Week Extra podcast. The challenge is
Speaker 1: caused by COVID and the hopes under a new administration
Speaker 1: for the solar energy We talked about that with Abigail
Speaker 1: ross Hopper, President and CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands, now online, and
Speaker 1: of course, on the Bloomberg Terminal. Have a safe weekend, everybody,
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg