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Speaker 1: Hey that on Normally the show was normal, it ticks,

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Speaker 1: but when the news gets weird.

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Speaker 2: I am Mary Catherine Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz. We

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Speaker 2: lost an online friend last week that I feel like

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Speaker 2: we need to mention. John Echtel was an amazing Twitter follow.

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Speaker 2: I would say that we mentioned him on normally more

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Speaker 2: than we mentioned anyone else, because he often had these

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Speaker 2: really smart takes and ideas. Just really sad to lose

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Speaker 2: someone like that. I didn't know him in real life,

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Speaker 2: but we were friends online and he was a fan

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Speaker 2: of this show, and I just wanted to take a

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Speaker 2: minute and say, we're going to miss him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I'd had known him in real life.

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Speaker 1: We used to toss around the idea of getting together

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Speaker 1: with Charlie Cook and his family and going to the

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Speaker 1: Georgia Florida game in Jacksonville, because yeah, that's where they live.

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Speaker 1: And when we hit this age, I mean always, but

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Speaker 1: particularly around our age, it feels like you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of time left, but you know you're getting to

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Speaker 1: this middle section where sometimes life has different ideas and

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Speaker 1: you always think you have next year. And it was

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Speaker 1: a real pleasure to be friends with him in any capacity.

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Speaker 1: I first came across him because he understood the failure

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Speaker 1: of remember the Orca Mitt Romney get out the vote technological.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't remember that.

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Speaker 1: So that's where I came across him, because he was

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Speaker 1: a guy who was able to explain what had gone

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Speaker 1: wrong here and why it hadn't worked. And I believe

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Speaker 1: you may have predicted that it wasn't going to work.

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Speaker 1: And from that moment on, I was like, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is somebody who's specialized and interesting and can tell me

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Speaker 1: things that I wouldn't otherwise know. He was also just

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Speaker 1: a delight and funny and unfailingly reasonable in our environment

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Speaker 1: where not everyone is. So my best to his family,

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Speaker 1: who I know are having a very tough time, and

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Speaker 1: I will miss him very much.

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Speaker 2: It's a tragedy, it really is. On the same day,

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Speaker 2: James Vanderbeek, who we grew up with as Dawson on

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Speaker 2: the show Dawson's Creek, also died of cancer at age

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Speaker 2: forty eight, and you wrote such a beautiful tribute to

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Speaker 2: him in the Free Press. I read it this morning.

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Speaker 2: It was really lovely. It's also just such a sad loss.

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Speaker 2: I have a quick story about him. One time Bethany

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Speaker 2: Mandela and I went to some was it a children's

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Speaker 2: manufact convention, I'm not entirely sure, but James Vanderbeek was

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Speaker 2: there and he was chasing around his kids, and Bethany's

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Speaker 2: a fan, and I was like, oh, I'll just ask

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Speaker 2: him for a picture with you, and he was like, guys,

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Speaker 2: I'm chasing around my kids, like literally, and we both

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Speaker 2: really appreciated that. We thought that is really cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he had six kids, he so clearly enjoyed them.

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Speaker 1: I wrote in the piece that you know, he's a

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Speaker 1: teen idol who got it right, Like as a child actor,

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Speaker 1: the chances you're going to get your priorities right in

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Speaker 1: life are.

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Speaker 2: Fifty low some to none.

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Speaker 1: And he really just enjoyed the heck out of his family,

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Speaker 1: and I think at the end was focusing on them

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Speaker 1: and his connection to God. And there are really worse

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Speaker 1: ways to be on the doorstep, yeah, at the end

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Speaker 1: of life than that. And I've had this parasocial relationship

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Speaker 1: with him since I was fifteen, So it's this It's

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Speaker 1: very interesting way that things sort of overlap in life,

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Speaker 1: and you experience these people both on screen and sort

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Speaker 1: of in real life through social media. And I will

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Speaker 1: just too sad to watch two young fathers go too

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Speaker 1: young and sweet.

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Speaker 2: A really terrible day. To give a special shout out

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Speaker 2: to our friend Buck Sexton, whose book Manufacturing Delusion, How

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Speaker 2: the Left uses brainwashing and doctrination and propaganda against you

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Speaker 2: is out today Tuesday. I'm very excited to read this book.

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Speaker 2: Is a really smart, serious person. I don't feel like

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a political fluff book that

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Speaker 2: he had to write for the hell of it. He

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Speaker 2: is XCIA. He has some really interesting insights. I genuinely

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Speaker 2: can't wait for my copy to a today Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to check this out.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the news. There's been some news.

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Speaker 2: The news this weekend was there was some high points

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Speaker 2: and some low points.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the Munich Security Conference is going on, which is

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Speaker 1: a very high profile foreign policy To do that, many

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Speaker 1: leaders go over to Germany to be part of. Among

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Speaker 1: the leaders who went this time were Secretary of State

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Speaker 1: Mark or Rubio, Congresswoman AOC Alexandria Okazio Cortes, and Governor

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Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan. They all went there to sort

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Speaker 1: of burnish their credentials. Rubio doesn't need much burnishing.

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Speaker 2: No, but he burnished anyway. He was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: need burnishing, and yet I'm here to burnish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So he did a twenty minute speech for the

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Speaker 1: whole crew. Yeah, and you know, it got basically rave

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Speaker 1: reviews all the way with perfect It was really something

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Speaker 1: because it was a It was all the things that

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Speaker 1: we talk about frequently, but it was done in such

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Speaker 1: a positive way. The way he presented everything about how

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Speaker 1: we care about you Europe, with the yeah.

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Speaker 2: This has helped you very well, said I thought. You know,

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Speaker 2: first of all, can I just say that twenty minutes

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Speaker 2: is my favorite length for speech. I don't think speeches

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Speaker 2: need to be more than twenty minutes. But I loved

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. I particularly liked his ending. He said,

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Speaker 2: I'm here today to leave it clear that America is

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Speaker 2: charting the path for a new century of prosperity, and

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Speaker 2: that once again, we want to do it together with you,

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Speaker 2: our cherished allies and our oldest friends. We want to

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Speaker 2: do it together with you, with the Europe that is

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Speaker 2: proud of its heritage and of its history, with the

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Speaker 2: Europe that has the spirit of creation of liberty, that

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Speaker 2: sent ships out into uncharted seas and birth our civilization

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Speaker 2: with the Europe that has means to defend himself and

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Speaker 2: the will to survive. We should be proud of what

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Speaker 2: we achieved together in the last century, and now we

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Speaker 2: must confront and embrace the opportunities of a new one,

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Speaker 2: because yesterday is over, the future is inevitable, and our

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Speaker 2: destiny together awaits I was like who.

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Speaker 3: He also?

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Speaker 1: I want to hear directly from him, and we have

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Speaker 1: a little on the longish side clip of him, but

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Speaker 1: it's worth Hearing's beautiful where he talks about many of

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Speaker 1: the things we talk about, which is, if the West

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Speaker 1: does not have confidence in its own values and its

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Speaker 1: values being special, in its values being worthwhile, we don't

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Speaker 1: have a future. And he addresses that starting by saying, look,

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Speaker 1: decline is a choice, and we don't have to choose it.

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Speaker 1: And here are some of the ways we could be

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Speaker 1: better at not doing so. Here's Marco, excuse me, secretary's date.

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Speaker 4: And this is why we do not want allies to

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Speaker 4: rationalize the broken status quo, rather than reckon with what

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Speaker 4: is what is necessary to fix it. For we in

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Speaker 4: America have no interest in being polite and orderly caretakers

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Speaker 4: of the West's managed decline. We do not seek to separate,

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Speaker 4: but to revitalize an old friendship and renew the greatest

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Speaker 4: civilization in human history. What we want is a reinvigorated

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Speaker 4: alliance that recognizes that what has ailed our societies is

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Speaker 4: not just a set of bad policies, but a malaise

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Speaker 4: of hopelessness and complacency. An alliance is what The alliance

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Speaker 4: that we want is one that is not paralyzed into

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Speaker 4: an action by fear, fear of climate change, fear of war,

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Speaker 4: fear of technology. Instead, we want an alliance that boldly

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Speaker 4: races into the future, and the only fear we have

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Speaker 4: is the fear of the shame of not leaving our

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Speaker 4: nations prouder, stronger, and wealthier for our children. An alliance

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Speaker 4: ready to defend our people, to safeguard our interests, and

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Speaker 4: to preserve the freedom of action that allows us to

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Speaker 4: shape our own destiny, not one that exists to operate

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Speaker 4: a global welfare state and atone for the purported sins

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Speaker 4: of past generations. An alliance that does not allow its

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Speaker 4: power to be outsourced, constrain, or subordinated to systems beyond

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Speaker 4: its control. One that does not depend on others for

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Speaker 4: the critical necessities of its national life, and one that

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Speaker 4: does not maintain the polite pretense that our way of

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Speaker 4: life is just one among many, and that asks for

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Speaker 4: permission before it acts. And above all, an alliance based

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Speaker 4: on the recognition that we the West have inherited together.

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Speaker 3: What we have inherited.

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Speaker 4: Together is something that is unique and distinctive and irreplaceable,

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Speaker 4: because this, after all, is the very foundation of the

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Speaker 4: Transatlantic bond.

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Speaker 2: Just so well done, Such an optimistic but serious speech.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of times people mistake optimism for

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Speaker 2: fluff and doom for seriousness. I think he proved that

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Speaker 2: that's just not the case. He's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I really yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I would say we got in early on the

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Speaker 2: Marco Rubias amazing train. We thought he's been great for

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Speaker 2: quite some time.

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Speaker 1: It is true. Especially liked the idea that it is

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Speaker 1: not the mission of Western civilization to become merely a

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Speaker 1: global welfare state and then to atone for our past

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Speaker 1: sins like that idea is big. He sort of he

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Speaker 1: repudiated the distabling elements of mass migration. What he's doing

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Speaker 1: is pointing out all the things that normal people feel

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Speaker 1: and see all the time, but that in a place

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Speaker 1: like the Munich Security Conference, everyone's just like, ooh, are

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Speaker 1: we allowed to say that?

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Speaker 3: Right? Right?

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Speaker 2: Are we allowed to say that we like our civilization

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Speaker 2: is crazy? It's bonkers, and Rubio is there to be like, yes,

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Speaker 2: you're allowed to say you like your civilization that did

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Speaker 2: all of these amazing things and created a lot of

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Speaker 2: our modern world. Like it's okay.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I want to note two critiques. We're

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Speaker 1: going to go into some AOC film as well here,

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Speaker 1: but one of the critiques from AOC was this was

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Speaker 1: a explicit appeal.

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Speaker 3: To Western culture.

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Speaker 1: Yes, a see, that was what it was. That's what

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Speaker 1: it should be. Leadership can breed more courage, and it

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Speaker 1: can breed more confidence in our values. The New York

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Speaker 1: Times ran an interesting critique which was basically, yeah, sure

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Speaker 1: he talks about all these Western ideals that bring us together,

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Speaker 1: but mass migration has completely changed Europe and we don't

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Speaker 1: have those in common anymore.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, well, what I think. I think

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Speaker 1: that might have been part of the point.

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Speaker 2: There's also this idea that what Europe has done in

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Speaker 2: the last ten years is what it must do in

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Speaker 2: the next ten years. And I think Rubio was there

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Speaker 2: to say you could stop this. You can stop this.

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Speaker 2: You're actually not you know, you don't have to continue

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Speaker 2: down this path that's been so destructive for you. You can

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Speaker 2: change the rules around what you can and cannot say.

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Speaker 2: We should also mention and look, you know, I feel

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Speaker 2: like there's a lot of people who want to set

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Speaker 2: up the Vance Rubio battle. I thought Vance gave a

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Speaker 2: fantastic speech last summer, But a lot of people are

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Speaker 2: saying what Van said and what Rubio said were the

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Speaker 2: same thing. But Rubio got a standing ovation and it

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Speaker 2: was much more positive and optimistic and less critical of

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Speaker 2: our allies while being critical, but not like poking them

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Speaker 2: in the eye with it. Right.

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Speaker 1: Tone matters, tone doesn't matter, and knowing your audience matters,

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Speaker 1: and Vance might be targeting different people last year. He

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Speaker 1: was sort of talking maybe to us more than talking

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Speaker 1: to Europe. I do think Rubio's ability to be kind

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Speaker 1: and charismatic while critical, yeah, is a skill.

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Speaker 2: It is, and he makes people like AOC crazy. One

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Speaker 2: of her other criticisms was she said, my favorite part

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Speaker 2: was when he said that American cowboys come from Spain,

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Speaker 2: and I believe the Mexicans and descendants of African slave

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Speaker 2: peoples would like to have a word on that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they also came from Spain.

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Speaker 1: Wait till she hears where Spanish came from, it's gonna.

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Speaker 2: Be it's gonna be a real problem the way Western

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Speaker 2: civilization well and was involved.

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Speaker 1: I do there is this thing where once you are

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Speaker 1: sort of an approved lefty and you've got all your

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Speaker 1: academic nonsense nomenclature going on, you get credit for being

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Speaker 1: a smart person when you're actually quite clearly ignorant of

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Speaker 1: some major things, which she illustrates by saying that none

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Speaker 1: of this had your roots and that we should object

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Speaker 1: to him pointing all of that out. By the way,

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Speaker 1: I thought her Ilk objected to Trump's distancing of us

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Speaker 1: from Europe, and now she's objecting to Rubio's bringing us

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Speaker 1: back together. What she objects to who knows, But like

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Speaker 1: there's major gaps here in the understanding. And I think

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Speaker 1: we should go to AOC and Gretchen Whitmer and their

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Speaker 1: clips during this event to make clear that both of

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Speaker 1: these women travel to Munich knowing the discussion was specifically

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Speaker 1: foreign policy based. There was no question about what you

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Speaker 1: were supposed to be discussing m hm. And yet this

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Speaker 1: is AOC's answer to a question about Taiwan, one of

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Speaker 1: the most obvious things you would be asked about at

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Speaker 1: this gathering. Shall we play it would?

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Speaker 2: And should the US actually commit US troops to defend

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Speaker 2: Taiwan if China were to move?

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Speaker 3: You know, I think that.

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Speaker 6: This is such a you know.

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Speaker 3: I think that this is a.

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Speaker 6: This is of course, a very long standing policy of

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Speaker 6: the United States, and I think what we are hoping

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Speaker 6: for is that we want to make sure that we

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Speaker 6: never get to that point, and we want to make

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Speaker 6: sure that we are moving in all of our economic

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Speaker 6: research and our global positions to avoid any such confrontation

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Speaker 6: and for that question to even arise.

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen her stumble like that in a while.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny because her last stumble that I remember

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Speaker 2: like this very clearly was when she was asked about

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Speaker 2: Israel and the Palestinian territories and whether that should be

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Speaker 2: a two state solution. I believe it was on firing

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Speaker 2: line and she was just like, I'm not an expert.

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Speaker 2: And she does the exact same thing here where she

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Speaker 2: puts up her hands like, don't ask me, I'm just

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Speaker 2: a girl, like, Yeah, this was a real preview of

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Speaker 2: all the things she will not be able to answer

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Speaker 2: as a presidential candidate. I'm worried about her. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it'll be an easy path to beat her because

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Speaker 2: she is talented politically, but there is a lot this

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Speaker 2: lady does not know. And if she goes up against

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Speaker 2: Vance or Rubio, I just they will eat her alive.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, Carol that she should not be

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Speaker 1: underestimated because she has a bit of spontaneity, a bit

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Speaker 1: of warmth. She can be a little quick on her

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Speaker 1: feet in a casual back and forth with someone outside

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Speaker 1: the capitol, and I think it serves her well. Here

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Speaker 1: we have I think real Democrat privilege, which is she

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Speaker 1: thinks she can go anywhere she wants and not be

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Speaker 1: asked serious things and not be stumped. And who's James Sorowitz?

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Speaker 1: Is that his name?

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm? Wisdom of Crowd guy.

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Speaker 1: James asked me at one point when I was tweeting

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Speaker 1: about this, well, what's the correct answer on Taiwan? And

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Speaker 1: It's like, let me tell you something. She's a Democrat. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't even have to have the right answer, right,

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Speaker 1: She just has to have an answer. You spent six

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Speaker 1: to eight hours on a flight. Even if you hadn't

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Speaker 1: had a conversant thought, a semi coherent thought on Taiwan

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Speaker 1: before you got on the plane, you could certainly have

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Speaker 1: one by the time you get off the plane, right, And.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she ends up saying we should never get to

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Speaker 2: that point. That could have been what you started with.

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Speaker 3: Like, well, and I get it.

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Speaker 2: I agree. There is no great answer on Teaiwana, and

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Speaker 2: nobody is going to say, yes, we're going to send

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Speaker 2: American troops to Taiwan if China attacks, although we all

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Speaker 2: kind of believe that is what's going to happen. It's like, yes,

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Speaker 2: you can't just say things that you know are going

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Speaker 2: to destabilize relationships. I get that, she gets that. Still

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Speaker 2: have an answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, put the put the phrase strategic ambiguity in your head,

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Speaker 1: learn three sentences and you're fine. No one's going to

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Speaker 1: call you out unless you do this. Yeah. I just

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Speaker 1: the the lack of respect for the exercise in not

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Speaker 1: prepping at all, Yeah, is very It's actually a little

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Speaker 1: surprising to me. Look, can we hear Gretchen Whitmer as well,

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Speaker 1: because here she is being asked about Ukraine. Who have

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Speaker 1: imagined you'd get that question on Ukraine? What does victory

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Speaker 1: look like?

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Speaker 3: I'd love to hear your answer.

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Speaker 6: It is.

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Speaker 5: I the two, the two that I am on the

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Speaker 5: panel with, are much more steeped in foreign policy than

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Speaker 5: a governor is. But you know, I do think that

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Speaker 5: Ukraine's independence, keeping their their land mass and having the

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Speaker 5: support of of all the allies, I think is is

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Speaker 5: the goal. From my vantage point, Go ahead, ambassador, do

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Speaker 5: better job.

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Speaker 2: This one is more egregious to me, even because the

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Speaker 2: Democrats don't have a position on Ukraine. And I've been

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Speaker 2: saying this since the beginning. There's a lot of like,

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Speaker 2: you know, Republicans or Trump specifically, or pro Russia or whatever,

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Speaker 2: have not seen Democrats stake a position on Ukraine. What

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Speaker 2: should America be doing? Should they be said? And should

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Speaker 2: we be sending more money, should we be sending troops?

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Speaker 2: All of that is a discussion that they are unwilling

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Speaker 2: to have. They just want to tie Trump to Putin

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Speaker 2: and that's the entire ballgame for them, and that clearly

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Speaker 2: is not enough on the world stage.

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Speaker 1: Well, and once again it's like AOC putting her hands up.

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Speaker 1: She's like I'm but a governor, right, Okay, great, So

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? You're a governor who came

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Speaker 1: to Munich. What's the point of you being here if

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Speaker 1: you haven't taken some time to think about this and

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Speaker 1: if you haven't made a plan to make your points?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Go, Rubio made a plan to make some points.

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Speaker 2: And he could have done that as senator as well.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Well, And to be fair, President Trump might show

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Speaker 1: up without a plan to make specific policy points, but

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Speaker 1: he was already elected presidents y'all are trying to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're trying to get his job, right, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I was actually surprised. Trump would never stammer like that.

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Speaker 2: He might also not give a I racked answer, But

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Speaker 2: he'll never be like uh oh, I never. He will

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Speaker 2: be like Taiwan. You know, we'll see what happens with Taiwan.

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Speaker 2: Maybe China will try to invade and maybe we'll do something,

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Speaker 2: but maybe they won't and maybe we won't. It just

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Speaker 2: he he'll have an answer.

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Speaker 1: Well, and again I want to emphasize truly, that's all

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Speaker 1: that's required is to speak for twenty three seconds and

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Speaker 1: put some She knows a lot of nonsense phrases.

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Speaker 3: She throws out there and there.

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Speaker 1: But for the grace of God go I have been

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Speaker 1: in a situation where my brain freezes up and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to get the right answer and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: grab something. However, if you if you are traveling, yeah,

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Speaker 1: to another country to do a specific event, just read up,

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Speaker 1: just read up.

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Speaker 2: She was unprepared, and you're absolutely right. It's because she

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Speaker 2: never gets hard questions and that wasn't even a hard one.

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Speaker 2: All Right, We're gonna take a short break and come

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Speaker 2: right back with things we don't want to talk about

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Speaker 2: but have to be right back with more on normally.

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Speaker 2: We are back with more on normally, and there's stories

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Speaker 2: that are in the ether that are prominent that we're like,

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Speaker 2: why do I have to talk about this? And Candace

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Speaker 2: Owens is like always at the top of my ill list.

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Speaker 2: The fact is, though ignoring her didn't work, and I

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Speaker 2: think there needs to be a more direct attack on her.

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Speaker 2: I think when Ben Shapiro went after her in December,

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Speaker 2: it really took some wind out of her sales. She

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Speaker 2: became crazier, but that exposed a lot more about what

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Speaker 2: she's doing. But for our purposes here, Mary Catherine and

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Speaker 2: I are on widow defense of Erica Kirk, and Candace

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Speaker 2: is getting crazier and crazier and accusing Erica Kirk of

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Speaker 2: just insane things like removing a picture of Charlie from

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Speaker 2: the back ground of the podcast. Erica had to explain

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Speaker 2: that she actually moved it lower so that her daughter

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Speaker 2: could see it. Candace is has accused TPUSA Charlie's organization

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Speaker 2: of being involved in his murder. She borders onn't accusing

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Speaker 2: Erica herself, but she says things constantly that lead people

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Speaker 2: to believe that Erica was involved in the murder of

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Speaker 2: her own husband. It's just it's really sick and people

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Speaker 2: who have covered for Candace or have not attacked her

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Speaker 2: directly are just cowards and it's sickening.

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Speaker 1: Really uh yeah, like someone needs to really invest in

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit here.

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Speaker 2: Said the line needs to be drawn, and I hear

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Speaker 2: people say this is what she wants. She wants a lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: She'll be the victim. She's already playing the victim. She

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Speaker 2: already plays the victim. She already portrays herself as somebody

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Speaker 2: who has been cast out because she's just searching for

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Speaker 2: the real killer and she's just a crazy person with

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Speaker 2: a microphone. She needs to be stopped in a courtroom.

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Speaker 1: I do think this kind of figure is really tricky

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Speaker 1: to deal with, because yes she does want attention, and

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Speaker 1: yes she thrives off attention, and yes that's what she's

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Speaker 1: creating every single second of every day. And also, if

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Speaker 1: you are the person, you can't just be like I

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Speaker 1: guess I'll be attacked endlessly with totally unfounded rumors about

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Speaker 1: myself forever and ever. Amen. There was another incident recently

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Speaker 1: where people in the Candace camp are airing a video

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Speaker 1: of Erica speaking to her employees at turning Point, shortly

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Speaker 1: after Charlie's death, and she's just saying normal things like

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Speaker 1: you can have time off if you're grieving. She's clearly distraught,

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Speaker 1: she's trying to pull people together, and this was somehow

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Speaker 1: twisted into an indictment of her. Yeah, when in fact

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Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, you're really blowing the lid off

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Speaker 1: of this compassionate manager story about erk Kirk. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot a lot of online politics is learning about characters

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Speaker 1: I would otherwise not at all want to know about.

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Speaker 2: Why do I know who these people are?

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Speaker 1: I hate that the gropers, the look smacks erst the

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Speaker 1: the words they use. I'm not interested. You have to

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Speaker 1: sort of be interested.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I have to pass, but I have to sort

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Speaker 2: of know what's going on. It's it's awful. The other

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Speaker 2: topic that I just I look, I want anybody who

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Speaker 2: committed any crimes with Jeffrey Epstein held accountable. But we

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Speaker 2: are on a wild goose chase at this point. People

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Speaker 2: who have nothing to do with it are being just maligned.

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Speaker 2: Here role Conna, who with Tom Smassy.

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Speaker 7: Are like the ringleaders of all of this where they

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Speaker 7: want to bring people to justice, and again I do too,

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Speaker 7: but you're not bringing anyone to justice, and nobody is

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Speaker 7: being named as having.

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Speaker 2: Done any of these horrific things that we keep hearing about.

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Speaker 2: Rocanna on the floor of Congress read the names of

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Speaker 2: six people, and he said, I forced last night the

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Speaker 2: DOJ to disclose the identities of six men that him

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Speaker 2: and Thomas Massey forced this. And he reads these six

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Speaker 2: names and he says that these are powerful men and

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Speaker 2: that he is exposing them. And then it turns out

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Speaker 2: that they were actually part Four of them were part

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Speaker 2: of a photo lineup. So not only did they not

438
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,239
Speaker 2: commit any crimes with Jeffrey Epstein. They had zero to

439
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: do with it. They were randos picked for a photo lineup,

440
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: not connected to Epstein at all. And of course it's

441
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: somehow blamed on the DOJ for not providing the explanation earlier,

442
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: instead of redacting than unredacting their names. This is what

443
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 2: Rocanna says. It's just it makes no sense to me anymore.

444
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: And when he says real Kana tweets they have failed

445
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: to protect survivors, created confusion for innocent men.

446
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 3: Bro, you did that.

447
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: You created that confusion. You read these names on the

448
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: Congress floor as if you knew what you were talking about,

449
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: and you didn't. And so it has become just a

450
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: wild goose chase. People are saying the most horrific things

451
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 2: online about people. I think we talked about this a

452
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: few weeks ago, where somebody posted a picture of a

453
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: tech founder with a bunch of children on him and

454
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: they were like, Oh, this is so horrible, and then

455
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: they were his own children. It's just ridiculous.

456
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: Nelly Bowles, who was a New York Times reporter at

457
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: the time, got dragged for having met with Epstein. But

458
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Epstein was a source for a bunch of New York

459
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: based and finance world based stories and important people based stories. Right,

460
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: this is what reporting looks like. I listened to Ellianna

461
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: Johnson on the Commentary podcast and she had a great

462
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: line about this and a forceful pushback on the idea

463
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: that this should all be out there, saying transparency is

464
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: not justice. Transparency is not justice. And I think I've

465
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: been maybe too laissez fair about this, thinking like, Okay,

466
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: the thing was fishy from the beginning. I think that

467
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: Epstein should have been punished more the first time he

468
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: was caught. I don't think these people should have associated

469
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: themselves with him after the fact, after they knew about him.

470
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: And also in releasing six million pages of information from

471
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: an investigation, what you've done is just open the door

472
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: to exactly what Rocana and Massy have done here and

473
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: hurting people who had absolutely nothing to do this do

474
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: with this, who probably don't have resources to deal with

475
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: being accused in this manner. And I don't think we're

476
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: any of us smarter or more justice has been served

477
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: by virtue of this.

478
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was scrolling through the documents on the Justice

479
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: Department site and I was putting in kind of generic

480
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: terms like corporation or at agency or whatever, just to

481
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: see that sort of what was out there. And I

482
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: came across the name of one of my friends, who

483
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: is a real estate agent, has zero, I mean, has

484
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: never met Epstein, has zero to do with Epstein. Literally,

485
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 2: I sent this to her and she has no idea

486
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: what that apartment sale even had to do with Epsteine.

487
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: It just got forwarded to him. But you know, imagine

488
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: I'm reading this and my friend's name is in there.

489
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 2: I just a lot of very innocent people, not just innocent,

490
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: but literally having absolutely nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein

491
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: or being caught up in this. Like, you can't just

492
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 2: shrug our shoulders and say, who cares. We have to

493
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: get justice for the victims. I want justice for the victims.

494
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: This doesn't get us that.

495
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: We also have to think about the precedent for other investigations,

496
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: because as soon as a particular lightning Rod investigation becomes

497
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: the one that someone important says, we have to release

498
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: all the files, every single person who spoke to police,

499
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: every single person whose texts or emails were part of

500
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: an investigation, become public. That's not usually, uh, the standard

501
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: that undergirds our system and standard is that you are.

502
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: It's just protected.

503
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: It had helped if all of this got released and

504
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: powerful people were exposed and went to prison over it

505
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: or were charged with something or proved something, that would

506
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: be amazing and fantastic. But that's not what's happening here.

507
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: And it just it's just it's disconcerting to me that

508
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: so many people don't care that. It's like, so what

509
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: so what if Randall's are being caught up in this,

510
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: That's just the price we have to pay to get

511
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: all the information out.

512
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: I mean, a lot of this goes back to just

513
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: public officials being responsible, and unfortunately, are much of our

514
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: modern media era in particular and political era incentivizing irresponsibility

515
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: instead of being responsible. Yeah, but you know you got elected.

516
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: You should do better, a lot better. All Right, We're

517
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: going to take a short break and be right back

518
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: with more on normally. We're gonna talk poop river, Mary Catherine,

519
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: poop river. And this is not the topic that we

520
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: wanted to avoid.

521
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: Be right back, all right. We are back on normally

522
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: with a distasteful topic, but one that we must address.

523
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: I may have mentioned it before in our bad Blue

524
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: City governance stories, but it's gotten worse. On January nineteenth

525
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: of this year, part of the wastewater treatment pipelines in

526
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: the DMV area Washington, d C, Virginia, Maryland cracked and

527
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: failed and started diverting wastewater into the Potomac River. The

528
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Potomac River is not famously super clean, but it's okay.

529
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: People do water sports in it. People row it's right now,

530
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: you should not go near it. No, it is. This

531
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: is from the very beginning of this thing. The interceptor

532
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: line that broke was roughly sixty years old and carries

533
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: up to sixty million gallons of wastewater daily from Louden

534
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: and Fairfax County's areas near Washington Dulles International Airport, all

535
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: of northern Virginia. Basically, it's been doing that into the

536
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: Potomac since January nineteenth. That is almost a month. And

537
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: by the way, when it comes to local governance, it

538
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: took Virginia almost a month to say anything about it.

539
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: DC was like slightly earlier in late January saying, oh,

540
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: we're working on it. Marylynd was like, oh, we're working

541
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: on it. And now the whole message is don't touch

542
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: the river. That's the message. The message isn't we are

543
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 1: absolutely getting this cleaned up. It's possibility off the poop river. No, no,

544
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: no no. And by the way, the poop River goes

545
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: to the Chesapeake Bay. If you live in the Mid Atlantic,

546
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: you have been subject to a relentless campaign that the

547
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: Chesapeake Bay must be pristine at all times for like

548
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: the last thirty years. I'm wondering how much of that

549
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: we're undoing right this second as this stuff flows away.

550
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: But the most amazing thing to me is that I

551
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: looked up the coverage. It's the Warringtonian, it's local Arlington

552
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: Now it's Outside magazine did a piece because you know

553
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: they're interested in the Outside. They note that it is

554
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: the e Coli is extremely high with the two hundred

555
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: and forty three million gallons of sewage that have flowed

556
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: into the river. Just from perspective, I want to tell you, Carol,

557
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: I looked it up XM. Valdiz about ten million gallons

558
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: of oil. Deep water horizon about two hundred million gallons

559
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 1: of oil. So we are going to surpass that in sewage.

560
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: And it's bad, it really does. And you know the

561
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: left is supposed to be environmentalists, right where are they?

562
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: How could this not be a giant story.

563
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: They're very very quiet, and they're very very not hard

564
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: on the governments of DC, Maryland and Virginia, who basically

565
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: didn't address this for several weeks. The snowstorm came right

566
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: on the heels of the breakage, so they had to

567
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: deal with the snowstorm first. Right, it has been frozen here,

568
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: thank goodness, for several weeks. It is now fifty degrees.

569
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: I allow you to imagine what's going to happen when

570
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: it hits seventy.

571
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: Eighty ninety delightful.

572
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to take a turn here, guys, And

573
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: don't touch the river is not a good enough answer.

574
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: Right, I just didn't trying to imagine if this was

575
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: going on in Florida, and first of all, Rond de

576
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: Santis would have already fixed it. But second of all,

577
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: truly be a front page story in the New York

578
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: Times and the Washington Post and everywhere else. I hope

579
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: they fixed that Poop River for you, guys. I hope

580
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: Poop River doesn't continue on into summer. New York is

581
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: having this thing where they had, you know, this big

582
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: snowstorm and a lot of people didn't clean up their poop,

583
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: the dog poop, and now that the snow has melted

584
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: in this dog poop everywhere, I feel like there's some

585
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: similarities here.

586
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: Well, you remember the refrain about San Francisco before. It

587
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: has now become slightly better, but it was a feces

588
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: problem as well. M Your governance in a blue metropolitan

589
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: area will let you live in human crap.

590
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: That is what they will do to you, The ideology says,

591
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: then they'll be like.

592
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: This seems fine, should we do some more redistricting guys.

593
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: By the way, Wes Moore, who is the governor of Maryland,

594
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: is doing a national media tour because he's like the

595
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: up and coming guy for ten twenty eight right now,

596
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: and he did a segment on CBS News saying, hey,

597
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, we've got to stop being the party of

598
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: slow and commissions. We've got to build things. So of

599
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: course this area is like, I don't know, it's probably

600
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: gonna take us like eight nine months to exist. And

601
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: I want to also remember that Maryland Governor Wes Moore

602
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: was in charge of Maryland when that giant bridge, the

603
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: Princess uh yeah, Princes Key Bridge went down when that

604
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: tanker hit it. It was July of the next year,

605
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: before they had removed all the remnants of the old bridge.

606
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: It has not been rebuilt. The projected data is twenty thirty.

607
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: But sure do things fast, guys. All right, well you're

608
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: just Santas in here.

609
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, what can we point him as to fix these problems?

610
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: Just like federal fixer?

611
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: Is there a competence czar? Because that's what.

612
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: We need czar. That's good.

613
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: That's much better, honestly for the fixer, for the federal

614
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: government and every state government. Competence zar. Let's do it.

615
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: I love it. Let's make it happen.

616
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: Well.

617
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on normally. Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,

618
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get

619
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 2: in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.

620
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally