1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's have a very special shout out 4 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: to our favorite returning guest. What are the core members 5 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: of the Ridiculous History family, the legendary super producer mister 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: Casey Pegrum. 7 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: Glad to be back with you guys again. 8 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: Good to have. 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 3: We were just talking about like marvelification of cinema and 10 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 3: like we've got the Ridiculous Cinematic Universe universe coming in. 11 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, you're the core Universe returning You know what 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: I mean? This is so I've been your Noel. We've 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: got cases. Yeah, we've got a shout out to Max. 14 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: White Pants Williams off On Adventures and the. 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 3: Pole are still clean. I hope they're still pristine. 16 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: I hope he keeps them under glass And you know, no, 17 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't. I think I mentioned it, but I didn't 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: want to go too hard on because I didn't want 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: him to feel eclipsed. But I also have a pair 20 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: of white pants for a wedding and I straight up 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 1: did not wear them because I was like, it's gonna 22 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: be a long, hot Tuscan. 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 3: Afternoon in Tuscan. That's you know what, wearing a white 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: suit in Tuscany is very on brand. I think that's 25 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: that's cool. It's very Godfather too. I guess there is. 26 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: There are photographs of me that exists out there in 27 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: the world somewhere of me as a small child wearing 28 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: a white suit to a wedding as well. So while 29 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: I'm not with you contemporarily, young me is on board. 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: I've got a I got a sear sucker. I call 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: it my Televan suit Casey saw me wear it a 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: few times back in the day. 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 3: You remember what I'm talking about. Yeah, how does one 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: suck a sere? Ben? 35 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: Well, you can suck up to a seer by following 36 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: a cult, right, But one thing that stands out when 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: you Okay, my very close friend who had this waying 38 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: in Italy, he weddings can be stressful, they're beautiful, right. 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: I was there just to basically drop a hot three minutes, 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: do my tight three minutes there. And when I got 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: there first time in Italy, I looked around and this 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: is my buddy, Corey Oliver. We all know him, and 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: and I was like, Corey dang man, all those paintings 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: that Olive Gardener are accurate. This is what it looks like. 45 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: And he said, don't say that, dude, I've worked so 46 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: hard on this. But I looked at it and you 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: look out across you know, this like wine country landscape, 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: and it seems that all of the trees and the 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: shrubs are just so. They seem some unnaturally manicure. Italy 50 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: runs Topiery, at least in a natural sense. And I 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: think it's something that you know, we're gonna we're gonna 52 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: spend some time on this, No, because our research associates 53 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: are also pretty excited about this. Did you guys have 54 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: like Topiery growing up? Did you go through hedge mazes 55 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: anything like that? 56 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I don't think we are of the 57 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: echelon of society that has Topieri. I don't know about y'all. 58 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: My upbringing was somewhat middle middle class at best. Topieri 59 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: seem the kind of thing that go in like Tuscan 60 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: gardens or like you know, builtmore estate. Don't they have 61 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: Topieri's at I'm pretty sure they do, or like you know, 62 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: the Overlook hotel in the show. 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, that's my association as reading the 64 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: shining the novel and reading about the topiery animals coming 65 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: to life and all that. 66 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: So yeah, which they didn't really play up in the 67 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: movie at all. There's no Yeah, Edward Scissorhands topierism, get 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: the ariaization. Yes for the. 69 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: Topiery enthusiast in the crowd, a huge contingent of ridiculous historians. 70 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: The time has come. I remember many years ago, I 71 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: would like we we probably all had to do a 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: little bit of landscaping, housework stuff growing up. And Uh, 73 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: one of the things that I don't want to say, 74 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: got in trouble for I got reprimanded for was we 75 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: had one of those electric hedge trimmer clippery things. I 76 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: did some topiery and then and then my mother, who 77 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: has passed, uh saved me and was like, you messed 78 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: up this shrub. So now while you're here, go ahead 79 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: and do something with the rest of them. 80 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: And so continuity is key. There we go. She she 81 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: she just defied me. But uh, we don't know. 82 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: It turns out topiery as an art has a craft, 83 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: does a pursuit is pretty ancient. We in the modern 84 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: day have no idea who looked at a shrub and said, Nah, 85 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna jush it up a little. 86 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, Topierre is kind of like the balloon animals of gardening, 87 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: you know, in a lot of ways. And it's older 88 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: than you'd think, which I guess makes sense because you know, 89 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,119 Speaker 3: as long as there have been people walking the earth, 90 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 3: I think there have probably been some form of bush. Yeah, 91 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: they predate humans, but I think it's probably right. And 92 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: if there's one thing that humans have always been known 93 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: for us having imagination. You look at a thing, you say, 94 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: you know what, what if that thing were another thing? 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: And how can I make that happen? Maybe with this 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 3: rock or just by you know, tearing away branches with 97 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: my rough hewn you know ape Hans. 98 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, we know Romans were fans of topiiization and they 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: seem to have picked it up like so many other 100 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: things from the Greeks of Old, and then the ancient 101 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: Egyptians were also snipping away at topiary. We're getting a 102 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: lot of this from a great article on country life 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: Topiary the ancient art of transforming nature into cubes, pyramids, 104 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: and peacocks. So that's a we always love a shout 105 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: out to a weird headline. 106 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, I think The key here is it 107 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: was It's always been a sign of opulence, because like, 108 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: who has the time, you know, or the resources to 109 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: do something so borderline frivolous and absurd. You know that 110 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: requires a lot of care and maintenance. I mean I 111 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: could barely get a haircut on a regular basis, let 112 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 3: alone keep my topiary from becoming overgrown. 113 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: I've been wearing a hat all week because I haven't 114 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: made the time to shower. 115 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: So I get it. 116 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: You know, people are out here change in the world. 117 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: I fell asleep trying to put on a pair of 118 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: pants one time. 119 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: I love the notion though, that wearing a hat is 120 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: somehow a good cover up for not showering. 121 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: It is also we're recording remotely, so no one can 122 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: smell me. Everybody pretend I smell amazing, but I can 123 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: tell you. 124 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: From experience, you do smell amazing. Ben is that lavender? 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: He is Laughingteric Casey follow my only fans, So, yeah, 126 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: you're raising excellent point here. 127 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: I will put topiary. 128 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: It reminds me of an earlier episode we did on 129 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: Garden Hermits. You know, Topier is like a step beneath 130 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: Garden Hermits, beneath paying. 131 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 3: A human otherwise homeless guy. 132 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be a lawn exhibit. But we know that 133 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: back in as far as one hundred CE. Plenty the 134 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: Younger talked about his garden in his country via or 135 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: villa because to your point, Nol, it is something that 136 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: pretty wealthy people tend to do in his society. And 137 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: he was like, my garden and my country house, I've 138 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: got this whole slope adorned with figures of animals in bah. 139 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I've got a lawn that's enclosed with evergreen shaped in 140 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: a variety of forms. It was like his version of cribs. 141 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: That's why he was describing this. 142 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: I think animals in box would be a good name 143 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: for a band. I don't know why, it just it 144 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 3: just hit me that way. It's true, Pliny the Younger. 145 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 3: I guess it related to Planny of the Elder, or 146 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: they were just trying to keep our planey straight. They're 147 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: trying to franchise it. Got it, got it, got it, 148 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 3: got it well. He describes cypress trees that were cut 149 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 3: into the shape of figures, letters, even like messages, inscriptions, 150 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 3: certain kind of things you might see carved in marble, 151 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 3: like monuments like obelisks, and such again in this Tuscan villa, 152 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 3: and he credited a guy named Guy, a guy named 153 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: Gaius Guias Madius Calvinus, for introducing this whole concept's art 154 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: form to none other than Julius Caesar, who you know, 155 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: when you're Caesar, when you're king, and youths your fancy, 156 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: it's going to strike the fancy of the whole you know, empire. 157 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what happened. It became quite popular across 158 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: the Roman Empire, right. 159 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: Because, as we see over and over again in human societies, 160 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: when the people at up top do something, even if 161 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of dumb, then other people who aspire to 162 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: be at that echelon will mimic it, will emulate it. 163 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: I think another good, probably one of the most extreme 164 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: examples of that, is the origin of Castillan Spanish, where 165 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: you know, the ruler had a lisp, so everybody else 166 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, poor stupleto and that's a lot 167 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: of yeah, yeah yeah. Luckily, that's no longer the thing. 168 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: If you go to Spain today, you'll see that most 169 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: most Spanish nationals, as younger generations come to the forefront, 170 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: they are less likely to have that accent. 171 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: That is interesting. I did not know that story, Ben. 172 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 3: That's super cool and random. History is full of this 173 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 3: kind of stuff. So the the art of topiery, I 174 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 3: think it's just topiery. I think that's its own plural 175 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 3: or whatever. Or yeah, topiery is the thing, and the 176 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: art of topiery is the thing that you do. It 177 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: was super popular under Caesar. But much like early flush 178 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: toilet technology, when the Roman Empire fell, so did topiery 179 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 3: fell out of fashion at the very least, because largely, 180 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 3: you know, it was tough times. It was like a 181 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: time of struggle, when gardening and farming was more about 182 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: being functional than it was about being decorative. Yeah. Yeah. 183 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: Oh, and also I should say, no, Casey fell a 184 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, just in the interest of transparency. The story 185 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: about the medieval king speaking with a lisp has been well, 186 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: people back and forth over whether that's a myth. So 187 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: we lest we unfairly characterize medieval Spanish kings as you know, 188 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: their versions of Mike Tyson's Like any aesthetic, we see 189 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 1: a wax and a wane, a rise and a fall cyclically, 190 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: and to your point, noll As, constant infighting in these 191 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: different empires made cities increasingly resort to big walls for security. 192 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: There was less and less space for gardens, even if 193 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: you were the people at the tippidy Top the Grand 194 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: pubas so the topieri's ornamental nature had to shift. Now 195 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: it had to have a function. You needed to have 196 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: fruit trees. You need to have things that could produce 197 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: food in case of you know, another siege, which was 198 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: a constant reality of the time. 199 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. So also plants needed to be quite hearty, you know, 200 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 3: and not to be delicate, dainty little elephant shaped bushes, 201 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,359 Speaker 3: you know, things that would stand under serious weather conditions 202 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 3: or as you put it, been like, you know, certain 203 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: wartime conditions, even although probably no amount of heartiness is 204 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 3: gonna you know, stand up to a you know, scorched 205 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: earth kind of campaign, right exactly. Yeah, this is not 206 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: the Uh, this is not the place for the precious lilies, 207 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 3: as we found actually, uh, because plants needed light and space, 208 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 3: and in my opinion, they need some kind gardening to 209 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 3: really thrive. You know, I'm a fan. 210 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: I think we're all fans of talking to plants just 211 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: for the fundzies. 212 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: Uh. 213 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: Because of all these things plants needed, and because of 214 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: these wartime situations that seem to occur constantly. There wasn't 215 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: a lot of gardening of any kind in Europe for 216 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: several centuries. Gardening went from being a privilege of the 217 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: wealthy and a workingman's industry to a thing that didn't 218 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: really happen. It became anachronistic until Charlemagne, our friend from 219 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: the breakfast. 220 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: Club Charleman the gut mm hmm. 221 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: Until Charlemagne in his younger days and eight hundred CE 222 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: brought that gardening. 223 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: I knew it was only a matter of time. Yeah, 224 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: I love so so funny like Charlemagne. I guess Casey, 225 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 3: if we could put you on the case, that is 226 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: like a French portmanteau. I guess that means Charles the Great. 227 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: Well, it's it's from the French form of the Latin 228 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 2: adjective magnus, meaning great. So yeah, it's like if you 229 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: in French if you said manifique. So it's sort of 230 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: like a yeah, like a signific sense great. 231 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: But it's also like saying vin number or ATM machine. 232 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: Then it's like Charles the Great, the Great. 233 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a little redundant. Casey, oh the 234 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 3: case Casey on the case and bump bump. He is 235 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: very much interested in this functional type of farming, you know, 236 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: which is interesting. You think he maybe would have brought 237 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 3: back Topieri's right away, but he's more interested in herb 238 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 3: gardens and fruit trees and bringing this stuff back to France. 239 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: Around a thousand a d. Monasteries followed suit and started, 240 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 3: you know, we know monasterias have a history also of 241 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: like you know, brewing beer and doing kind of more 242 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 3: bespoke kind of handcrafts and stuff like that. They started 243 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:36,479 Speaker 3: cultivating herbs and flowers and little shrubs, a little shrubs 244 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 3: like the knights who say me, shrubbery, that's shrubbery. 245 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: And so after about one thousand a D or ce 246 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: whatever you prefer, when this stuff is happening in Europe, 247 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: we see that there are also these things called paradise 248 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: gardens in Spain and Sicily. And these are a little 249 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: bit different because they're not entirely functional, they're not sources 250 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: of food during sieges. They come from the Moorish occupation 251 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: because the Islamic culture controlled these parts of the world 252 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: during this time. And want to shout out to beyond 253 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: Bankies over who have a great article on the history 254 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: of Topiaries by Larry Hurley, who talks about this. There's 255 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: an interesting sort of contrast here, because, like you said, 256 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: the monasteries are growing herbs and flowers and shrubs, you know, 257 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: and they're using these things for food. They're using them 258 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: to flavor different beverages that they are creating to make 259 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: dyes for the illustrated manuscripts. The Moorish paradise gardens are saying, hey, 260 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: let's just have a nice landscape to look at, you 261 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Let's take in the sunset and 262 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: watch the butterflies flit about. So the thing it was 263 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: cool everybody at some in some way. Both of these 264 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: pursuits led to green space. And now we have to 265 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: introduce the Anglo Saxons and the Vikings, who are you know, 266 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: mainly known for the pillaging. 267 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 3: The plundering, the scorching of the earth, not necessarily for 268 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 3: their love of gardening. Yeah, it's interesting. It does, however, 269 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: look to be the case that Norman Nobles actually reintroduced 270 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 3: concepts of topiary, perhaps inspired by things they had seen 271 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: in their travels Islamic gardens for example, in Sicily. You know, 272 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 3: some of these types of gardens enclosed plots that added 273 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 3: a little bit of privacy hedges kind of you know, 274 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: in castle courtyards and some of these monasteries. And this 275 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 3: is where the term I believe horticulture comes in, where 276 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: we have the term hordous conclusis. Well, it's a Harry 277 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: Potter spell, right, I think that's right. Which was it 278 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 3: was a practice I guess, of trimming hedges and topping 279 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 3: them with almost like the kind of thing you'd see 280 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 3: on the top of a Christmas tree, but with like standards, 281 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 3: you know, like the eagle or whatever it might be, right. 282 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And there was an increasing trend of sophistication 283 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: because now topiary is back, baby, we're going Greco Roman 284 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: with it. You would see more intricate cuts of shrubs. 285 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: In the late thirteen hundreds we saw the rise of 286 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,199 Speaker 1: a topiery known as the astraw, and things like rosemary. 287 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 3: This is interesting. 288 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: We'll talk a little bit about bonds eye at some point, 289 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: but shrubs like rosemary could be trained into these semi 290 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: uniform kind of standardized shapes, and you would do that 291 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: by giving them an exos elati basically iron frame that 292 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: has a couple of different hoops of decreasing. 293 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 3: Size and then that would kind of limit its growth 294 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 3: in a certain way to make it tick on that 295 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 3: shape on its own. That's pretty cool. 296 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: And this coincided too. Again, the Italian Renaissance occurs later, 297 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: and the Italian Renaissance is a bunch of people in 298 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: Italy going full fanboy, like beast mode fanboy for everything 299 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: they consider ancient rome. And part of that surprise surprise 300 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: was topiary. 301 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 3: So the kind of template I guess for this type 302 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: of garden did really come out of Italy. Europe really 303 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 3: looked to that model for a lot of these decorative 304 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 3: gardens for several hundred years. These included these herb gardens. 305 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: These formed liquid to your point, been the kind of 306 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 3: restrained growth of these clipped herbs and these shrubs that 307 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: would form, you know, when looked at from above, these 308 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 3: really intricate geometric patterns. A lot of potted plants were happening. 309 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 3: There would be espallier trees. Is that a type of 310 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 3: a tree ben or is that a style. 311 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: That's kind of the exoskeleton we're talking about. 312 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 3: Oh, that's the word. That's cool. I learned something new today. 313 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 3: I learned several new things today. I try to learn 314 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 3: something new. Most days. I think we all do here 315 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: in ridiculous history world. But yeah, these kind of little accents. 316 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 3: And then also Casey to your point about the shining, 317 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: they didn't have spooky, you know, living topiary animals, but 318 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 3: they did have a pretty boss hedge maze, which is 319 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 3: a great, you know sequence in that film. I've never 320 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 3: personally walked a hedge maze or a corn maze for 321 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 3: that matter, have you all sounder? Just yeah, what's it like? Uh, 322 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 3: It's it's cool. 323 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: They run the gamut because there are some that are 324 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: meant to be more away a while away the afternoon, 325 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: and so for some of those they might not always 326 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: be taller than human height. But then there are others 327 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: that are really intricate. There's one I want to visit. 328 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: You remember that book, The Codex. 329 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 3: That I love. 330 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: The publisher of that, who is like a very old 331 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: Italian money guy, was also known for having the world's 332 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: largest hedge maze on his a state in Italy. And yeah, 333 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: he passed away. That's a flex. That's a very specific, 334 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: weird flex. We should probably have Miles and Jack back on. 335 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 336 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: But but yeah, and then corn maze is you know, 337 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: a seasonal you can find them here in the southern US, 338 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: and those are those are kind of like I would 339 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: put them in the pantheon of a Tumnaal hangout, things 340 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: like hay rides, which you mentioned a previous episode, or 341 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, outdoor haunted houses. 342 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 3: Question is the minotaur at the center of a corn 343 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: maze made of corn? 344 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: I don't believe if there is a minotaur, but it'd 345 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: be cool if they had like a minitar Yeah. 346 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 4: If they had either scarecrow or straight up cow. I 347 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 4: do like that, just to get surprised a just scruntled cow, 348 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 4: you know. So yeah, what about you? Casey corn mazes 349 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 4: hedge maases. 350 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: I have not been to one. 351 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 2: I was looking actually at pumpkin patches here in Georgia, 352 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: and there is one that has some you know, a 353 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 2: tiny little cornd kind of thing nearby. 354 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,719 Speaker 3: I think that's the one I went to with with 355 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: my family over the weekend. It's called Bert's Pumpkin Patch 356 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: and it's not on site, but I think there's a 357 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 3: corn maze adjacent. It's like a separate property. But they 358 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: do do a hay ride that has some very subtle, 359 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 3: not so subtle religious indoctrination coming from Animatronic pumpkins. 360 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: And our pal our pals Dylan Fagan uh was there 361 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: as well as Miranda Hawkins. 362 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 3: I want to say, yeah, so itwas a good time. 363 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: I spent way too much money on pumpkins. But my 364 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 3: house is looking very festive right now. Nice, you're a 365 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: pumpkin ear and please do carve. I love it. 366 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: I love carving pumpkins, So this weekend. 367 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: Nice. 368 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: So the Medicis who are known for doing some evil 369 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: stuff and also being big art patrons, and they're the 370 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: billionaires of their day. Basically they love flexes and so 371 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: people in Medici's social class and above are all about 372 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: keeping up with the other obscenely wealthy Joneses. They want 373 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 1: to always one up each other with the most expensive, 374 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: opulent displays of wealth, the biggest parties, the best art, 375 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: the nicest, most impressive buildings. Horticulture is no exception. You 376 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: will see things like the Villa Karachi right outside Florence, 377 00:22:52,119 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: completed around fourteen sixteen. It has all kinds of topiary spheres, porticos, temples, vosses, earns, 378 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of animals, giant people, size things, men, women, 379 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: wild you know, famous people. 380 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't really witnessed one of these. I'm you know, 381 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 3: you know what happens when you get older, you get 382 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 3: really into like pots and buying nice pots and pans 383 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 3: and sweaters and gardening. Like I just you know, I 384 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 3: never in a million years would have been like I 385 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 3: need a garden, but lo and behold, I spent way 386 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 3: too much money on landscaping my backyard and I love 387 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 3: it. It's not nothing like this, but it's just nice to have. 388 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's maybe humanity's desire to 389 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: kind of control their surroundings or to in some way exert, 390 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: you know, their influence over like the earth or whatever. 391 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 3: And a lot of the stuff that we're getting to better, 392 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 3: that we're working through, it's all based around leisure time 393 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 3: and like, you know, the ability to do something just 394 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 3: because because it's nice, like the you know, let's watch 395 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 3: the butterflies and the and the topiary garden. But I 396 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: have not seen things like this in person. Have you 397 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: been a see like in your travels you would have 398 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: wandered through some topiary gardens. 399 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you can see. Actually, we are immensely 400 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: privileged to live in the fair metropolis of Atlanta, because 401 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: Atlanta is home to the Atlanta Botanical Garden. 402 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 3: They have allis in Wonderland themed ones, don't they. Yeah 403 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 3: they I haven't been. Okay, it's a great it's a 404 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: week in date, you know, takes take day and. 405 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: The kid and and I love going there as a group. 406 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: They have a lot of cool larger than life sculptures. 407 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: Of course, being you know, being that it is a garden, 408 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: it is seasonal, so check ahead. It's kind of like 409 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: the High Museum. They have rotating stuff that goes in 410 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: and out, and they have a lot of famous artists 411 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: that come through, uh who put their own spin on things. 412 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, we can see the topiary now, I believe 413 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: what is it? It's mid October as we record. 414 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 3: I don't know. 415 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: We'll have to check. We'll check at the end and 416 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: we'll see what they've got going on. This might be 417 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: like when we decided to go to a Monster Truck rally. 418 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was really really fine, except I did bring 419 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 3: my kid, who has some serious sensory overload issues. Monster 420 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 3: truck Rally not the best place for a kid like that, 421 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 3: but it was definitely an experience. It was also intensely hot, 422 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 3: and I forgot that there's no shade in those bleachers. 423 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: You're just like under the beating, you know, oppressive sun. 424 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 3: Just the scale of it too. Man, it was neat. 425 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 3: I'm glad I went. I don't think I'll ever go again, 426 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 3: but like I can, I can check. 427 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,880 Speaker 1: I would go if it was a different time of year, 428 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: or if it was more convenient. But it's just it's 429 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: just cool to see. 430 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 4: You know. 431 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: When you see a monster truck rally, what you're witnessing 432 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: is the two absolute opposite spectrums of human intelligence and 433 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: curiosity occurring simultaneously. Like imagine being smart enough to build 434 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: this huge stadium, being ingenious enough to not only invents 435 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: but invent these amazing cartoon cars, and then also being 436 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: human enough to say, well, now we should wreck them, 437 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, hold my beer. That's that's humanity. 438 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 3: It is. 439 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: So the Italian gardeners become a huge industry, right, Italian 440 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: topiery specialists, and they keep expanding to build these increasingly 441 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: bigger things, as the Medici type dudes are in an 442 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: opulence arms race. 443 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 3: These are the same folks that were like patrons of 444 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 3: the arts, and they had some very refined tastes and 445 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 3: they did some amazing things, you know. They they were 446 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 3: they were patrons and benefactors of incredible artists. We probably 447 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: would not have would be able to enjoy the work 448 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: of some of these figures if it weren't for the 449 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 3: for the Mediciese. And they also were big fans of 450 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: flexing their wealth, you know, the world. And by the way, Ben, 451 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: the gardens that you mentioned were designed by another individual 452 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 3: that these folks, we could say, were you know, acting 453 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 3: as benefactors for the architect Leon Battista Alberti, who incorporated 454 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 3: some really elaborate like that. You know. Again, these Medachiese 455 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 3: wanted anything that they did, they went large, and they 456 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: wanted Alberti to take the Topieri's places they'd never been before. 457 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 3: So he had these like boxes Topieri eyed boxes, and 458 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 3: with that contained spheres, temples, urns. We had oxen, a 459 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 3: partridge in a pear tree, a bear, goats, I'm his 460 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 3: name and stuff. Now they probably had yeah, warriors, a haarpee. 461 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 3: I mean this is like you know, you ever see 462 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 3: those guys on some of those like really over the 463 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: top like cooking shows that like work in chocolate, you know, 464 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 3: and they make a fricking race car out of chocolate. 465 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 3: It's more like fabricating you know, a product than it 466 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 3: is making you know, a delicious dish. That's the level 467 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 3: that these folks were going, you know, to get the detail, 468 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 3: to have like heartbeat with the talons and like warriors, philosophers, 469 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 3: cardinals and popes. Absolutely wild stuff. 470 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this stuff we're naming. Even if it 471 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: sounds like we're being a little redundant there, you have 472 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: to understand, if you can imagine a topiary sculpture, they 473 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: probably did it. And they had visitors, international visitors from 474 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 1: places like France. So the royalty, the aristocracy of France 475 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: comes over. Actually I'm being diplomatic. The kings of France 476 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: invaded at least several times, so it's kind of a 477 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: visit with a motive. And while they are invading and 478 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: sewing chaos, they like the gardens and so you know, 479 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 1: war is a great communicator of culture, unfortunately in addition 480 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: to all the evil stuff it creates. So these French 481 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: kings start importing Italian styles for all kinds of stuff, 482 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: for food, for you know, cuisine, for fashion, for literature, 483 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: and of course for topiary. And eventually, for a while, 484 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: just like the Romans were kind of aping Greek style. 485 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: For a while, the French were just emulating Italian style 486 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: until they began developing their own sort of vibe. And 487 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: that vibe is a little more militaristic, almost like rigid symmetrical. 488 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, very aesthetic. It really was like very kind of 489 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 3: weirdly almost like brutalists, you know, topiery, rigid. You're right, 490 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 3: like you said, been very rigid, a lot of symmetry. 491 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 3: Very West. Wes Anderson would have would approve. He's also 492 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: he's a big Francophile and you know that Casey Wes 493 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 3: Anderson is like permanently apartment in Paris. I think he's 494 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 3: there pretty much all the time. He loves it. 495 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: Whoa hold the phote or hold the hedge trimmers. 496 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 3: This is a two. 497 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, watch yourself. We've got on deep and we're going 498 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: deeper because there's a lot more to the story of 499 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: Topiary than you might clock if you're just walking through Versailles. 500 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 3: This is right on this episode. We went deep. Next 501 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 3: episode we're going to go wide and hard in the 502 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: paint when it comes to Topiari's the balloon Animals of Gardening, so. 503 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: Big, big thanks of course to Casey Pegram our super 504 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: producer dear dear family member of the show Casey, we're 505 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: going to ask. 506 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 3: We'll give you till part. 507 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: Two to ask if you want to, you know, make 508 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: this a semi regular thing. But thank you so much. Man, 509 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: you're just here the business. 510 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'll mull it over, give us some. 511 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: Thought, all right, Yes, we don't want to do a 512 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: hard sell. Thanks also to of course, mister Max Williams, 513 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: super producer, Max White Pants Williams. 514 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 3: Guy's pants are just so white, blindingly white, blinded by 515 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 3: the white pants. 516 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course thanks to his real life sibling 517 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, who composed this slap and bopya here right now. 518 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: Chris fhrasciotis than Jeff Coates here in Spirits, all the hits, 519 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland, that guy you Ben, She's Louise and hey 520 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: with all of you, we'll see you next time. Focus 521 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 522 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.