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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the All Ball Podcast. You boy Doug

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Speaker 1: Gottlieb here. Make sure you follow me on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: god Lee Show. If you're watching on Instagram on I

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Speaker 1: G Live at god Leave Show as well, and of

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Speaker 1: course you can follow my Facebook page. We'll put this

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Speaker 1: out as well. We got two great guests on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: Tim Livingston who did a podcast which they had Tim Donneghie,

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Speaker 1: and we'll have Tim Donnegan eventually. But we talked about

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Speaker 1: Donaghee some of the allegations that he made about the NBA,

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Speaker 1: and I think you'll find it fascinating the connection between

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Speaker 1: that era of the league and the current era of

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Speaker 1: the league. And one official who ironically used to have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of phone calls with Tim Donicky still officiating

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Speaker 1: at a very high level in the NBA and he

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Speaker 1: calls for concern and he will well, we'll get down

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Speaker 1: to it. Um. Also Marvin Menzie, who of course been

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Speaker 1: the head coach in Mexico State, it's actually coach of

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Speaker 1: the century in the Whack, will join us. Wait to

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Speaker 1: hear his stories. Hey, do you know you owned a bakery?

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Speaker 1: I didn't. Uh. Did you know that he ran a nightclub?

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Speaker 1: I did? Know that one. There's a bunch of other hijinks.

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Speaker 1: I think you'll love marvelous Marvin Menzi if your West

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Speaker 1: Coast guy and l A guy Santa Monica City College,

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Speaker 1: San Diego State, Sack State forgot about them un l

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Speaker 1: v USC Louisville, Mexico State. The fact you un V

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Speaker 1: now at Grand Canyons a lot to get to with him.

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Speaker 1: Let me quickly give you a uh one thought on

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Speaker 1: the Boston Celtics. Then I'll give you one thought on

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Speaker 1: why Lebron James should have been the NBA's m v P.

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Speaker 1: First on the Celtics. I understand it sounds like in

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Speaker 1: fighting and Marcus Smart Curson a his dudes and stuff

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Speaker 1: being thrown around the locker room. But guess what I

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Speaker 1: own a dog? Do you own a dog? If you

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Speaker 1: want a dog? You know, the dogs occasionally will grow

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Speaker 1: out on each other one another, and sometimes they'll snap

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Speaker 1: it one another. It doesn't mean that they're gonna go

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Speaker 1: full on dog fight or that you need to gather

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Speaker 1: around and put some money down on old Buffy who's

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Speaker 1: a sheepa doodle? Right? No, no, no, dogs will bite, growl,

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Speaker 1: snap as they kind of in the pecking order of

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Speaker 1: any pack animal, one has to take the lead, and

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Speaker 1: if not, there'll be some snapping, There'll be some barking,

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Speaker 1: there'll be some biting. That's what you have with the Celtics. Look,

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Speaker 1: any team that's any good it's ever been on, you

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Speaker 1: lose your pest, especially when you have a lead late

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Speaker 1: in the game. Now, for me, I do think this

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Speaker 1: is a big challenge for Brad Stevens, who's seen as

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Speaker 1: a basketball genius and I agree with that. I think's

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Speaker 1: a marvelous coach. But can you take ahold of these

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Speaker 1: massive personalities and maybe more importantly, can all that great offense?

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Speaker 1: Can you run it late? Especially when they go to

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Speaker 1: a zone? As you saw, the Miami Heat did big

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Speaker 1: challenge for the Celtics. So anyway, in summation with the

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Speaker 1: Boston Celtics, look, is it problematic that they couldn't score

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Speaker 1: against the zone, that they had a lead late and

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Speaker 1: they took some bad shots and they couldn't get Yes,

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Speaker 1: but little dudes getting after in the locker room, getting

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Speaker 1: pissed that you lose. I do consider the alternative, which

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Speaker 1: is what if guys aren't upset and throwing things when

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Speaker 1: they lose a game they feel like they should rightfully win. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you gotta win game three. If you win game three,

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Speaker 1: we got ourselves a series because anything is possible. They

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Speaker 1: very easily could have won game one and game to

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Speaker 1: think about though, the Celtics have not bounced back from trauma. Well,

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Speaker 1: they were up three games to none and that series

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Speaker 1: was about to be over. In their previous series, uh

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Speaker 1: if not for a miracle three by the Toronto Raptors,

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Speaker 1: and they would have been up one game to none,

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Speaker 1: if not for Bama to Bio is amazing block. And

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Speaker 1: of course then they turn around lose game two. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a series. I think it probably goes seven,

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Speaker 1: but they gotta win three if we even want to

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Speaker 1: have four. Be a question. Now, Jannis is the m

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Speaker 1: v P and I understand it and I respect it,

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Speaker 1: and he's a great player and he didn't play that

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Speaker 1: any minutes and they won more games than anybody, and

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Speaker 1: stats are great, But then this is not taking the

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Speaker 1: playoffs of the bubble. I'm just telling you this value

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Speaker 1: to a team is not just assists, it's not just stats.

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Speaker 1: It's if I told you this story Lebron on James,

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Speaker 1: who I do play some of the responsibility for the

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Speaker 1: dysfunction within the Lakers on him last year. But from

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Speaker 1: last year the end of the season, we have forgotten

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Speaker 1: what a mess they were. He came back and they

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Speaker 1: lost the teams that were tanking. Then Magic Johnson quit

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Speaker 1: before the last game, no exit interviews. They fired Luke Walton. Well,

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Speaker 1: first they didn't fire him, then they did fire him.

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Speaker 1: Then they were gonna hire Tyler, but Tyler boked it

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Speaker 1: only a three year deal. They hire Frank Vogel, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, mm hmm, alright, hired Frank Vogel, and

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Speaker 1: then they hired Jason Kidd, his assistant. People like, well,

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Speaker 1: Jason Kid's gonna take the job. The best defensive team

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Speaker 1: in the West. Lebron is not their best defender, but

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Speaker 1: his leadership is why he led the league and assist

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Speaker 1: in order to get Anthony Davis going. And look, you

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Speaker 1: can tell me that the roster is good, I will

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Speaker 1: tell you that Danny Green is washed up. Kyle Kusman

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Speaker 1: has had a bad year. Rondo is really over the

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Speaker 1: hill and he's been banged up much of the year.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get Darren Collison go through that roster, and

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Speaker 1: outside of Anthony Davis was playing out of his mind

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Speaker 1: because Lebron is getting to the ball and talking him up.

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Speaker 1: They became the best defensive team the West. They had

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Speaker 1: the best record in the West at the end of

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Speaker 1: the regular part of the regular season before I got

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Speaker 1: shut down. They beat the Bucks, they beat the Clippers.

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Speaker 1: They were the best team. The cohesion of that team

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Speaker 1: is because of their leadership. Your leadership is your best player,

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Speaker 1: the best players. Lebron James. He should be the m

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Speaker 1: v P. That's just me. All right, let's let's catch it.

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Speaker 1: It's a really interesting podcast out there investigating Tim Doneghie

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Speaker 1: the claims he made. Some were validated, some were not.

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Speaker 1: Let's check in with Tim Livingston soon, of course, hosts

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Speaker 1: the Whistleblower podcast. He joins us on the All Ball Podcast. Um, Tim,

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Speaker 1: what was the impetus? What why create this? Uh? This podcast?

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Speaker 1: The empatus was, well, I grew up, Doug le gonna

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Speaker 1: give you a shot out real quick, because I'm a

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Speaker 1: Jewish point guard for something Alifornia, and uh, you're you're

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Speaker 1: our idol um, You're you're what we all aspired to

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Speaker 1: be and most of us, lack of the athleticism would

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Speaker 1: become that but I think the impetus was I grew

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Speaker 1: up playing basketball, and I love basketball, I love the sports.

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Speaker 1: When this scandal happened and all this came out, it

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Speaker 1: hurt me at such a deep level. It really rocked

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Speaker 1: me to my core. And this investigation, which has taken

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Speaker 1: place for eight years, was it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: healing process. It was I wanted to understand everything that happened,

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Speaker 1: the darkest thing that's ever happened in the NBA and

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Speaker 1: basketball in my opinion. Um, and that's where this odyssey

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Speaker 1: really kind of kicked off from. Um. Okay, So when

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Speaker 1: you when you approached Tim Donaghie, like, were you friend

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Speaker 1: of court? Like? Because that's that's actually where what I

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Speaker 1: struggle with is like what I think he did, regardless

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Speaker 1: of why he did it or how what he exposed

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Speaker 1: by doing it, I mean it it strikes at the

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Speaker 1: very heart or the core of what sports is about,

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Speaker 1: you know, on the opposite, the opposite of what sports

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Speaker 1: is you know, supposed to be about. And I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like one of those He's not a murderer, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to he killed anybody, but outside of

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Speaker 1: doing physical harm to another human being, it's pretty bad

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Speaker 1: what he did. How do you you know, how do

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Speaker 1: you approach even the discussion with him? It's really good question.

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Speaker 1: So Donnie and I originally connected, and we connect. You

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Speaker 1: reached out to me. I wrote an article that said, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this guy is kind of a schmuck, but I kind

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Speaker 1: of believe some of the things that he's saying about

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Speaker 1: the system. Um, I watch a lot of basketballs. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you're doing. I'm sure a lot of your audience does.

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Speaker 1: And there were games during that year of the NBA

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Speaker 1: late nineties early two thousands where something didn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: And so that's where our relationships started from. And over

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Speaker 1: the course of this investigation and our first three episodes

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Speaker 1: that podcast. UM, Tim Donna, I mean, look, Tim, Donnie,

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Speaker 1: he's not happy with me right now because I exposed

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Speaker 1: he's been lying about a lot of stuff for a

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Speaker 1: lot of years, and we exposed a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: right we we exposed that the money that he claims

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Speaker 1: that he brought in during the course of the scheme,

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Speaker 1: he claims that he made thirty dollars in the primary season,

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Speaker 1: just took place. He was fixing games with the course

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Speaker 1: of four years. Um, we kind of dispel that pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty soundly. We also, i mean, Donnie's also claimed that

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Speaker 1: he didn't quote fixed games, and we have a lot

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Speaker 1: of evidence now that that he did, and we present

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Speaker 1: that accordingly. So Donna, He's not an empathetic character by

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Speaker 1: any means. But what's interesting about Donnahan, and the reason

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Speaker 1: that's his title whistleblower, is the idea that he was

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Speaker 1: blowing the proverbial whistle about something about a larger problem

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Speaker 1: within officiating a basketball and this is focused on the NBA,

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Speaker 1: but we found evidence which were not even gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this podcast, that are permeated deeper than that, that

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Speaker 1: it went into college basketball and then went into baseball, football, tennis.

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Speaker 1: It's really just looking at all sports. This is an

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Speaker 1: investigation into corruption at every level, um through through the

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Speaker 1: lens of you know, we're trusting officials, were trusting referees

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Speaker 1: to be to police our sports, and in this instance

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Speaker 1: with Donnaghee, he's obviously not a trustworthy policeman, but with

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Speaker 1: a lot of other with a lot of other officials

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, and after listening to this podcast where

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Speaker 1: you know, we break down Michael Franziz former Mobsters, says

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Speaker 1: he had two NBA referees on his payroll in the

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Speaker 1: early nineties. Um, there's a lot of evidence tying Scott

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Speaker 1: Foster to Tindahi and their friendship and their relationship was

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Speaker 1: extremely suspicious. And now he's ever looked into that. And

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Speaker 1: Scott Foster is a top ranked official in the NBA.

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Speaker 1: So we wanted to just dive into this investigation and

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Speaker 1: really start to unravel a lot of this and I

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Speaker 1: think what we found is pretty fascinating. Okay, so what

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Speaker 1: what did What did you find? So with Scott Foster,

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Speaker 1: Scott Foster and Tim Donna, he exchanged a hundred thirty

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Speaker 1: four phone calls from October two thousand and six to

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Speaker 1: March two thousand and seven, excuse me, April two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, during the height of the scheme. Scott Foster

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Speaker 1: and Tim Donna. He always talked immediately after Tim talked

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Speaker 1: to his bookie or excuse me, not always, but almost

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Speaker 1: every time they talked was right after Tim talked to

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Speaker 1: his bookie. The duration of their phone calls was two

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Speaker 1: minutes long. The NBA and its Pettuitt's report, which had

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Speaker 1: published right after this scandal, UM they claimed that Foster.

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Speaker 1: Foster says they talked to kill time. Doug. I mean,

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Speaker 1: first off, I haven't talked to another human being a

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Speaker 1: hundred thirty or four times over the course of six months.

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Speaker 1: That's not my wife ever. Um. But if I'm calling

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Speaker 1: you to kill time, I don't think we're talking for

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Speaker 1: two minutes. Um, Scott Foster. If so, Donna, he's co

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Speaker 1: construe order Tommy Martineau, who shared everything with Whenever Scott

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Speaker 1: Foster called him Donnie, he stepped outside to take those

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Speaker 1: phone calls. Um. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence around

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Speaker 1: Scott Foster that nobody's ever investigated. And I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't understand why. Um, And I don't think personally, I

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Speaker 1: just don't think until he sits down and answers some

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Speaker 1: of these questions. Best relationship with Tim Donnie, Um that

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Speaker 1: he should be roughing the NBA's most important games. Another

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Speaker 1: quick detail, every called that Donnie. He had several phones.

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Speaker 1: He was calling Foster from the phone that he used

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Speaker 1: for gambling. This was the phone that he was calling

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Speaker 1: his bookie from, and only people related to the betting scheme,

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Speaker 1: and that was the phone he's calling Scott Foster from

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Speaker 1: There's just a lot of a lot of questions, you know,

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Speaker 1: regarding the guy who now is the most controversial referee

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Speaker 1: today the NBA, but nobody's ever answered. I just don't

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Speaker 1: understand why. Um I it's it's at that's fascinating. Um

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Speaker 1: Where else in basketball is this? You know, Scott Foster

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Speaker 1: currently involved in the sport that is at least mildly suspicious?

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Speaker 1: In my opinion? Not really. I think the NBA has

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Speaker 1: done a really good job thirteen years later. I think

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Speaker 1: when you think back to that era, I can name

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Speaker 1: and again I I'm probably not the best example because

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Speaker 1: I've spent so much my life researching this, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's basketball fans. There's guys from that year

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Speaker 1: at Dick Pavetta, Joey Crawford, Danny Crawford, just just referees

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Speaker 1: that we're just refing every game that we're part of

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Speaker 1: the show that we really knew. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the NBA today, most of the referees are anonymous, which

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Speaker 1: they should be. That's part of the vocation is that

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Speaker 1: you should be you should only exist in the shadows.

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Speaker 1: This is we're tuning in to watch Lebron James and

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Speaker 1: watch James Harden and watch the Stars. And I think

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Speaker 1: a big problem of that era was that a lot

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Speaker 1: of these referees um made themselves a part of the

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Speaker 1: show in a really suspicious way. So I think the

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Speaker 1: NBA today isn't a great place. I think the games

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Speaker 1: in a in a great place. I think in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six, two thousand and seven, you have to

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Speaker 1: look at a lot of these games and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the free throw discrepancies in the in the playoff

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Speaker 1: games that Donaghy reference. I mean, we've had games. There's

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Speaker 1: obviously the two thousand two Western Conference Finals, which is

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Speaker 1: probably the most controvers for game in NBA history, where

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Speaker 1: the Lakers shot twenty seven free throws in the fourth quarter.

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Speaker 1: But there's since we started this podcast, so many other

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Speaker 1: playoff games that year have been putting our radars as

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Speaker 1: highly suspicious, where people thought, you know, the games were amiss,

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Speaker 1: We don't. George Carl and Carl referenced Western Conference Finals

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Speaker 1: Game seven, the Sun's shot sixty four free throws in

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Speaker 1: that game. Carl said it took everything in his power

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Speaker 1: and all of his assistant coaches not to get kicked

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Speaker 1: out in the first quarter, and there's all these games

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Speaker 1: where it seems like somebody wanted a certain team to win.

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Speaker 1: And that's what the second part of our investigation is about,

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Speaker 1: just is there any truth there is it? Is it

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Speaker 1: just referees had a bad game, or is there something

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Speaker 1: more suspicious at play? And that's what we dive into

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Speaker 1: the second half of the podcast. Let's answer your question.

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Speaker 1: I think the NBA isn't a good place now, and

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Speaker 1: for those of us who love basketball, it's nice to see,

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Speaker 1: but there's still a long way to go. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, look, it's it's interesting. You're like, on

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Speaker 1: one hand, the NBA is in a good place. The

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Speaker 1: other hand, tonight we have a game seven and Scott Foster,

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Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be one of the refs, right,

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Speaker 1: and you're yes, So it's a it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: bizarre kind of place place to be. I guess here's

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Speaker 1: the here's the most important question. Um, if it's on

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Speaker 1: the up and up, now, do you believe it was

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Speaker 1: on the up and up then in terms of the

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Speaker 1: ultimate outcome of the most important NBA games, that's a

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Speaker 1: good question. Um, after this investigation. So we release episode

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Speaker 1: four on Thursday. So I can't say as much as

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Speaker 1: I can say in six weeks, but after for after

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Speaker 1: this investigation, after devoting eight eight years of my life

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Speaker 1: to answering that question, the answer is no, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that those games were played with the integrity that

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Speaker 1: we expect in in the n b A and in

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Speaker 1: a thing that we care a lot about. I don't

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Speaker 1: think those games. I think all those games, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of games in here. It's not every game,

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Speaker 1: it's not every championship. There's not an asterisk by every championship.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at certain games, which we're gonna

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Speaker 1: examine the podcast, and you look at the system, I

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Speaker 1: think you really. I think we as basketball fans have

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions that need to be answered by

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Speaker 1: the NBA. Uh. Last last thing, um, the question every

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Speaker 1: you mentioned you grew up as a Jewish basketbor player

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Speaker 1: in southern California. Um, are you a Jordan guy or

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Speaker 1: a Lebron guy? Oh? God, that is that is stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually a Lebron guy. Um, and that's probably you know.

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Speaker 1: I I'm thirty four, so Jordan's peak, I was I

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Speaker 1: was young. Um, I don't remember his greatness. Watching the

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Speaker 1: last Dance was was for me. I'm like the the

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Speaker 1: exact target audience because Jordan peaked right before I could

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Speaker 1: really understand how incredible he was. But so maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: going back. Maybe I'm a Jordan guy. Maybe what maybe why?

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Speaker 1: That's why this question is so hard. But I've been,

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Speaker 1: you know, as that debate has raged on, I've been

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Speaker 1: a Lebron guy just because, Um, I don't know, I've

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Speaker 1: watched his greatness in person and and it's it's so extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: But don't I hope your audience isn't like not listen

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Speaker 1: to the Whistleblower podcast because of that? Um, it's such

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Speaker 1: a divisive argument. Is the Whistleblower podcast only only examining basketball? Yes? Um,

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Speaker 1: Franzis you know I mentioned earlier like we interview Francis

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Speaker 1: for for those who don't know, Um. Former Colombo Cappo

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Speaker 1: and the Colombo crime family. Um was featured in Netflix's

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Speaker 1: Fierce City. He's probably you know, one of the most

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Speaker 1: open and outspoken mobsters who just he was brilliant. He

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Speaker 1: was called the be Down. He was concocting schemes for

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Speaker 1: the mob that we're making tens of million dollars, tens

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars a week. Um, he's probably, you know,

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Speaker 1: in my research and the mob which is not as

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Speaker 1: thoroughed as as it is in the NBA refereeing, he

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Speaker 1: might be the most brilliant mobster of all time. And

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Speaker 1: so Franzy says he has two NBA referees on his

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Speaker 1: pay He had two NBA referees on his payroll that

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Speaker 1: weren't Tim Donnahey. He also says that his game fixing

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Speaker 1: operation spread to football, college basketball, UM, baseball, and tennis. Um,

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Speaker 1: tennis is the easiest sports to fix. That's a different

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Speaker 1: conversation for a different day. He just needed one guy.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways to fix the tennis match.

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Speaker 1: But in basketball, he had referees on his payroll, and

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Speaker 1: he just describes it as easy. You know, the point

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Speaker 1: spreads five, Um, it's not you know, you're not like

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Speaker 1: fixing a basketball game in relations to the spread or

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Speaker 1: the over under. It was easy. They just called a

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Speaker 1: lot of fouls right one way or the other. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's definitely something we have

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Speaker 1: to examine in all sports. I think basketball and tennis

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Speaker 1: are the easiest sports to fix. But over the years,

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Speaker 1: there's definitely been game fixing in in pretty much every

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Speaker 1: sport um at varying levels. UM, because I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: any sport that hasn't been fixed in some capacity in

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Speaker 1: the past thirty years. Uh. Were there any players, um

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Speaker 1: that that were involved in any of these schemes? Says yes.

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Speaker 1: So Franzy says he did have players and NBA personnel.

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Speaker 1: I pressed him on that. He didn't really you know,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna give names, but he said, you have

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Speaker 1: players and personnel, but that referees were his preferred mechanism

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Speaker 1: for game fixing because they had so much control. You know,

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Speaker 1: if a player, um, you know, is bombing, the coach

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Speaker 1: can take him out right. Um. So he says he

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Speaker 1: did have players basketball players in that year, in the

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, who he was, who he was working with,

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Speaker 1: and again I don't know, you know, he didn't name names,

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Speaker 1: but he was a New York based guy and a

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Speaker 1: lot of his operation took place in that region. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. It could have been so many for

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Speaker 1: the San Antonio Spurs or Clippers or whoever. But he

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Speaker 1: says he did have players. Um for the most part though,

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Speaker 1: that's that's all we have on the players front. Is

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Speaker 1: is that allegation from franzis I don't have really any

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Speaker 1: other you know, obviously it's the Boston College scandal and

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Speaker 1: handful of others. Yeah, but but that's I think yep,

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Speaker 1: and and so I think it's on the college level.

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Speaker 1: You know, if it was hostra versus Northeastern, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think those are probably those games for if you

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Speaker 1: can get a player host star player, you're probably in

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Speaker 1: good shape. But for the most part his his scheme

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Speaker 1: revolved around referees. I can't wait to hear it. Um listen.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, great work, thanks for joining us and

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Speaker 1: uh and we'll promote it. And I appreciate you being

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Speaker 1: my guest then, and the shout out was really nice.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much, awesome, thanks so much, stuck all right,

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Speaker 1: thanks to Tim. That was really interesting. All right from

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Speaker 1: Tim Livingston. A very colorful former head coach in college

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Speaker 1: basketball is dear friend of my brother, who have you

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Speaker 1: heard on this podcast and a close friend of mine

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Speaker 1: is Marvin Menzie marveloust to anybody in the West Coast

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Speaker 1: or anybody who's ever been alongside him just has a

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Speaker 1: great way about him. Way do you hear his personal

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Speaker 1: story as he joined me to tell tell us what

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Speaker 1: life was like, how he became a coach after being

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Speaker 1: just some regular student at U c l A. So marvelous.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's let's start. You go to college where you

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Speaker 1: you went to? You went to where to grad? You

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Speaker 1: graduate U c l A. Didn't you graduated U c

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Speaker 1: l A. Um, it's not to Hamilton's High school. L

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Speaker 1: A guy, L A guy. I'm aware you're an l

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Speaker 1: A guy. So what did you were? You would? Were

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Speaker 1: you a manager at us? Like? What was what? What?

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Speaker 1: What was your U c l A student life? Like

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Speaker 1: my I was a coach and I coached special Olympics

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Speaker 1: at U c l A. That was my That was

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Speaker 1: my first experience in coaching. I had no athletic ability

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Speaker 1: at all, unlike you and your brother. I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a chance to play college ball. I was. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: I played midnight League, but I just couldn't. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: manage the big time like you guys. But no, U

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Speaker 1: c l A was awesome, enjoyed uh the whole journey.

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Speaker 1: There was you know, joined a fraternity five better signal

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Speaker 1: fraternity and got fully acclimated into a bunch of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that a lot of times the you know, typical

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Speaker 1: student athlete don't get a chance to enjoy it. I

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Speaker 1: I got. I got the most out of that. Yeah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no question. Okay, So you get downe with school. What's

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Speaker 1: your plan? All right? Good question. I I come out

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Speaker 1: of there, and you gotta think back now. I gotta

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Speaker 1: think back further than you. So I'm fifty eight now,

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Speaker 1: so I'm thinking back. Let's see, all right, I want

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Speaker 1: to own my own business. I want to make a

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Speaker 1: bunch of money, like most people are coming out of college,

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Speaker 1: and but didn't have a specific plan other than I

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Speaker 1: knew I wanted to do my own thing. I worked

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Speaker 1: in a in a completion bond company in Beverly Hills

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Speaker 1: for fireman insurance funding, and I did that for about

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Speaker 1: four months and realized I never wanted to sit behind

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Speaker 1: the desk for the rest of my life. So I

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Speaker 1: just I just started dabbling in different things on the bakery.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you knew that I had a

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Speaker 1: had a marvelous flood and brownie company in South Central

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Speaker 1: l A. For had that for about four years before

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Speaker 1: we sold it. So we we did that. We actually

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Speaker 1: started out in Westwood, right down the street from UH

424
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: from U C. L A. But I wasn't able Wait

425
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 1: wait wait, you owned a bit. How do you come

426
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: to own a bakery? Well, I worked the famous famous

427
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: when I was in high school? Remember the one? I

428
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: remember the one on Sunset like the original famous same.

429
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: I know, I cannot and pretend like I know what

430
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: you're talking about. But I'm a white kid, white kid

431
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: from Orange County. Like we used to come and play

432
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: basketball games in South Central at Challengers Boys Challengers Boys

433
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: Club on the weekend. Okay, and then everything moved to

434
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,959
Speaker 1: like Domingus High School and Compton College and Victoria Parks

435
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: where he played slamming jam But that's like Carson, that's

436
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 1: not even in l A. So I cannot and say, oh, yeah, yeah,

437
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: I know famous amous, Yeah, but I have no idea

438
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Still, I thought for sure you

439
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: were UH would be a knowledgeable of famous amous cookies.

440
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: I know what there's a difference. Now, do I know

441
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: what famous Amos cookies is? Of course, you know what

442
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: famous Amos cookies is. Do I know the famous famous

443
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: on Sunset. You know, the famous famous Oh yeah, I

444
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: know that blaze that I have no idea what you're

445
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: talking about their Okay, good point, point take it all right, Okay,

446
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: so you nailed it. Okay, So a little more background. Yes,

447
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm hustling to make a buck, you know.

448
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: And so I'm in high school. I'm catching the number

449
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: seven bus to Sunset and and uh just off the

450
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: Sunset Lobrea and I'm working over there like we're just

451
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: we're just griming in the back of the bakery, burning up,

452
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and I'm seeing all this money come through this little

453
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: tiny cookie shop that's famous Amoss owned. And uh so

454
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, man, this guy's killing it.

455
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: And it was. We had a blast, was a great

456
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: family atmosphere. So I graduated in U C. L A.

457
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: And say, well, what do I know? What do I

458
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: what am I good at? What? I know how to

459
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: make cookies? So I hit up a bunch of my

460
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: my family members and friends, put a business plan together,

461
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: went out and raised a pretty good amount of money

462
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: and and uh actually almost got it opened in West

463
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: l A. In in Westwood actually right off a wayburn

464
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: there almost got it open for commercial, but then we

465
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: got slammed on the uh on the last certification of

466
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: whether was so I moved it in the whole sale.

467
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: I moved into South central and and had a blast

468
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: doing it for several years while I was coaching this

469
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: whole time, I'm I'm kinda that was my way of

470
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: giving back. You know. I didn't have a lot of

471
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: money for for tithing at the church, so I decided

472
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: to be a service guy. And uh, that's that was

473
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: kind of my beginning of my coaching career was just

474
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: kind of giving back to my all old high school

475
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: and coaching special Olympics at the at U c l

476
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: A in the summer. Okay, so how did okay you

477
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: get to how did you start coaching? What like a

478
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: Santa Monica City? Was that your first coaching gig? Like,

479
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: what was your first coaching gig out of college? It

480
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: was actually at Hamilton's we uh the former my form

481
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: of I did play uh, you know, football and and

482
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: and ran track and field and so far across country

483
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But so my former coach, who

484
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: was also my junior high school teacher, moved up from

485
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: the lowest pastor Junior High which is now Lasist and he,

486
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: uh he asked me to come help him out because

487
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: they just didn't have enough coaches volunteer coaches. So I said, sure, yeah,

488
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: I'll I'll coach some basketball. I love it, you know.

489
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: So I started studying a little bit. I was doing

490
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: some a new stuff and I said, you know what,

491
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: it's pretty fun. And it kind of trickled into an

492
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: opportunity with John McMullen, as you referenced at Santa Monica College. Uh.

493
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: He saw me bringing over the guys every year the

494
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: summer league from Hamilton to Santa Monica and said, hey, uh,

495
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: you know this guy be a good assistant. I can.

496
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: I can get you a few bucks, probably more than

497
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: what you're making, which was absolutely true because I was

498
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: thinking nothing. And then the uh the Santa Monica Journey started,

499
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: which was awesome. We went like eight years there, had

500
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: a great time. Found out that was my passion over

501
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: making cookies and running nightclubs. I think, I don't know

502
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: if I ever told you my nightclubs story. I was.

503
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: I was getting that one that one. I knew we'll

504
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: get to that in a second, but keep going. Okay, Well,

505
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: so then I uh. So then I go from Santa

506
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: Monica College, I get an opportunity to I'll just give

507
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: you the quick resume about from there, I go to

508
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: Santa Monica to Sacramento State for a year with Newman.

509
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: I go back to Santa Monica for a year, and

510
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: then I go to it's just incredible fortune of working

511
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: with coach Fisher in his inaugural year at San Diego State.

512
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: We do that for four years. I go to I

513
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: see with him baby. Then I go to Lana Krueger

514
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: at UNLV. Then I go to Rick Puttino at Louisville

515
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: Louisville to New Mexico State, New Mexico State, back to

516
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: UNLV UM. Okay, wait, you're you're coaching in junior college

517
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: as an assistant and you ran a nightclub. Yes, that's

518
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: it's just like it sounds too. It's pretty pretty entertaining.

519
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: So I'm at uh at this time, I think we're

520
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: in like early nineties and and I'm just again trying

521
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to make a book. I'm

522
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: making a little bit of Tena Monica, but not messed,

523
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: you know, to live where I want to live and

524
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So I ended up joined

525
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: us some friends. One of my frat brothers asked me

526
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: to help him out because he knew I knew everybody,

527
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: and and we started the organization called the Highland Jazz Society,

528
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: and it was a great concept. We had comedy and

529
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: jazz from like um eight eleven and then we would

530
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: just going to dancing. We'd actually literally moved the chairs

531
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: and tables out of the way and dance right there

532
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: where people were eating earlier as an old school like dinner, dinner,

533
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: show and and dance. I mean we had and we

534
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: had a role and Doug. I mean, we have big

535
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: time celebrities coming through. We had big time entertainment. Uh.

536
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: We made a really good run. I think we did

537
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: it for maybe ten eleven years. And I mean Wesley Snipe.

538
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: So I turned away two pocket at the door to

539
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: Pocus to door. He's not He's got some of his

540
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: boys with him. But we had a strict dress code,

541
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: you know. So I said, man, I know who you are,

542
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: I said, But he was just kind of up and

543
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: coming obviously, So I said, but I can't let you

544
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: in with you guys dressed like that. I said, if

545
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: you if you guys want to come back, you know,

546
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: just approprily. I let everybody in free, and he did.

547
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: They came back, they had a great time. But Shaq

548
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: Kobe Lakers rams there there. This is all those guys

549
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: you said frequent the spot. So I wish would I

550
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: wish I would utilized connection. I do wish I knew

551
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: about relationships with connections and NetKing back then. But I

552
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: was just trying to get that twenty dollars at the door.

553
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: That was it. That was my goal. I had to

554
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: pay rent um. Okay. So so during this time, you know,

555
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: you're making a good amount of money, a little bit

556
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: of money. You're coaching Stana Monica. You had, but you

557
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: had players like stay with you, right, Like that's the

558
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: the California Junior college thing is you got to find

559
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 1: assistant coach or somebody they'll take in some of these

560
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: kids because you don't have dorms, you don't have apartments,

561
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: you don't have money. You had, like what you have,

562
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: Canny Bruner stay with you, didn't he Kenny Bruners gumby

563
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: James Gray another you know l a legend. Um I

564
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: had Sydney phase on who I played with Sydney phase

565
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: On Um he played with our team like six through

566
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: maybe eighth or ninth grade. I went on to play yeah, yeaheah,

567
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. We had all those guys lived with me.

568
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: I had a two bedroom apartment, and uh they had

569
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: the one room and they had we made the living

570
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: room a room and and we made the other bedroom.

571
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: You put two beds in there. And so I always

572
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: kept four guys that we're the were uh the ones

573
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: that might need me the most on the team. They

574
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: would always get that option to stay with. Now, you

575
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: you are, you are, you are a sneaky, amazing chef.

576
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: Where does that come to? I have no idea. I

577
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: guess my parents, you know, my mom and dad most

578
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: of my my dad probably you know my both of

579
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: my transfer from West Indy, West Indies from Guyana, and

580
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: uh so I used to watch my dad cook all

581
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: the time, crack curry and lobster tacos and all this

582
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, exotic, crazy, really tasty, cool meals, and I

583
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: just kind of got into it, uh you know, watching

584
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: him and we ate very very very very well growing up,

585
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: and so I just adopted that that passion he has

586
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: for cooking. What's your what's the best meal you make?

587
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: Probb My gumbo. Um My wife Tammy, you know, is

588
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: from her family or roots are from New Orleans, and

589
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: I just loved the meal. So I just really wanted

590
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: to figure out how to make it, uh really really well.

591
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: And so I practiced and screwed up a bunch of pots,

592
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: but I finally figured it out, entered entered a cooking contest,

593
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: and when I was living in Palms working at Santa Marcoca,

594
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: I took third behind to New Orleans Grandma. So I

595
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: wasn't too herd for take a third with I got

596
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: a fifty dollar gifts a tifket, So that was cool

597
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: when you were at Sana Manica City. In addition to

598
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: Sydney Phazon played in the NFL and Cam Brewer and

599
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: Gumby and all these dudes coming through the football team.

600
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm close with t J. Hush Benzata who she was

601
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: there and and and Chad Johnson was there too, right, Yeah,

602
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: I tried out for for the he wanted to keep.

603
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: He asked me the two both years of his say

604
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: begging me to get on the team. And I was like, Chad,

605
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: they're gonna play in the NFL. Like Coach Taylor would

606
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: kill me if I let you play on the basketball team.

607
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: He's a great personality, just like he was in the

608
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: NFL and who he was and in college he just

609
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: had the big smile and great confidence and he's a

610
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: really really good dude. You know, I enjoyed. I enjoyed

611
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: being around him and junior college days. Um. Okay, so

612
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: you when you interviewed, when you interviewed with with c Fisher,

613
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: what did you do to stand out? Uh? You know,

614
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: there was a there was a it was gonna be tough, right,

615
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: even even my current boss at the time, John McMullan said,

616
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: you know why, I don't want to bust the bubble,

617
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: but it's and this is Steve Fish is a national

618
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: championship you know, coach, and you don't know him at all,

619
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: and he's and don't have a lot of connections to him.

620
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: It's gonna be tough for you to get that gig.

621
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: So so coach kind of motivated me to be different.

622
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: So it's funny you asked that because I said, all right,

623
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: what am I gonna do creatively to to uh, to

624
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: just get get him to look at me a little

625
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: bit more, because I know I could do a good

626
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: job for him. It was just a matter of convincing him.

627
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: So I remember one time by I knew he was

628
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: coming down to school. He was recruiting uh Marcus Mason

629
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: at the time. I ended up going to Xavi here,

630
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: but uh Marcus was he was coming to see Marcus though.

631
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: I went over to a restaurant across the street on

632
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: Peak or if you get the name of it now,

633
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: and I said, listen, I'm gonna hopefully I'm gonna bring

634
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: this guy Coach Fisher and the and the and the

635
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: bartender was like, oh my god, Steve fisher Man. Yeah,

636
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: bring him through, bring it through. And I'm like, all right, well,

637
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: here's the deal. I don't I need you guys to

638
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: I gave him my credit card and I said, I

639
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: need you guys to not charge me. You could charge

640
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: on the card later, I said, but I want you

641
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: to pretend like I am your guy. You know what,

642
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm just doing this great job over Santa Monica at

643
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: the college Cross Street and these guys are all actors

644
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: at at these restaurants anyway, right, So he told his

645
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: staff and so forth. So Coach Fisher comes over and

646
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: he's about to get on the road. I said, hey, Coach,

647
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: you know it's a traffics horrible right now. Back on

648
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: that four or five, I said, you want to stop

649
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: and get a bite to eat, And on the chance

650
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: that he was gonna say yes, I already had it

651
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: all later at so he we go across the street

652
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: and it's like clockwork. We walk in there like it's cheers,

653
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: you know, hey mar Yeah. So we go, we sit,

654
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: we have this great meal. They come over to I said,

655
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: and I get to check. They are coach. You know

656
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: your money is no good here? It was awesome, man,

657
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: It just it just so coach, this is looking like

658
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: who is this that dude? You know, And that was

659
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: one of the things that did that. H There are

660
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: several little other tricky things. You how people normally send

661
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: fed xs and and uh the top ten reasons to

662
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: hire this guy so forth, I have cartoon has draw

663
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: up my stuff, professional artists and buddies of mind that.

664
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: So I just tried to really stand out from the

665
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: other candidates. Who's looking at um. So you get the

666
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: job there, I would say, you know, the biggest name

667
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 1: player you signed was Evan Burns. Okay, so but Evan

668
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: was what committed to go into u c. L A.

669
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: But that was it during the time when u c

670
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: A you had to pass calculus in high school? Is

671
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: that how you guys have? And so then he was decommitted,

672
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: and then you guys got like, how did that? How

673
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: did that work that you landed Evan? Well, we I

674
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: was recruiting like crazy, and everybody was like, I was,

675
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a first year or second year Division

676
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: one coach, just fresh out of the junior college, and

677
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, Marvin, you're not getting at McDonald's all American.

678
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: You're not getting Evan Burns to go to San Diego State,

679
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: so kind of like, you know, slower role. And I

680
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: was I didn't care. I was just like, well, that

681
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: would be great if I could get that kid. So

682
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: I just was a pit bull man, and I've worked, uh,

683
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, the dynamics of family. I knew his uncle's

684
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: they had went to Hambleton's, and I had just developed

685
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: a great relationship with his mom and his stepdad Bob

686
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: and mom Shelley, who's passed by now rest Our Soul.

687
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: But we had we just developed a great friendship and relationship.

688
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: So he actually went to u C l A and

689
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: was enrolled in summer school. There where he was about

690
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: to start summer school. He's on campus when he got

691
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: the word that he wasn't accepted. Well, all right, plan

692
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: b we gotta move fast, right, Well, who's next up

693
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: that I'm most comfortable with Marvin Menzies THEO State, and

694
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: then the rest of his history came over. We got

695
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: him in the summer. He ended up having a great

696
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: freshman year. I think it was newcoming to year or something.

697
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: And then and then went on to to play a

698
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: little bit after college. Um, what was your experience like

699
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: to be Now you're back at USC, right, so you

700
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: you're four years you're back at USC. Henry Bibby was there.

701
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: You guys had dude, But what was that like for you?

702
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: Mentioned l a guy you know, you'd come up through

703
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: the junior college ranks. You guys started killing it at

704
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: San Diego State because I played against that first team

705
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 1: that was dogshit. I mean, we're I don't know if

706
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if my brother told you that story,

707
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: but we're playing you guys in Oklahoma City and we're

708
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: up forty to fourteenth a half and coach like playing

709
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: his day, like right in front of the team at halftime.

710
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: He turns to me and goes, you tell your brother,

711
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: you gotta get some players. They're gonna get you ass

712
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: fired right like it was. And you know, four years later,

713
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: you got the best team in the league. Uh, you

714
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: got some transfers from dudes from l A that people

715
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: missed on. You got Evan Burn's coming. Okay, so then

716
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: you go to USC. What was that like for you

717
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: to be back in l A? Uh? It was great.

718
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: I was actually living in Azusa because I couldn't afford

719
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: to live in l A. Uh don't don't, don't they

720
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: do uh interest free loans at SC wasn't that was there? Not? Yeah?

721
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah not not not in my tenure. No, but it

722
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: was good. I mean it was home. You know, it's

723
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: I could, I could, uh you know, just pop over

724
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: to my mom's house anytime, and uh, it was it

725
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: was all my brothers are still there, so it was

726
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: good to have family around coming to games and so forth.

727
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: And but the I mean Henry Bibby is I mean,

728
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: he's a really good dude. He's he's kind of got

729
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: a reputation of being a a little stand office or

730
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: not standoffice, but just kind of an NBA you know

731
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: guy where you don't really. You can reach out to

732
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 1: him and they'll say all the right things, but he's

733
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: not gonna ingratiate you at all. And it's not true.

734
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: The dude is such a good dude man like, like

735
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: he was really supportive of of all the coaches. If

736
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: he had a really late practice, he would he said, hey,

737
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: you guys, I'll cover it, and you said, you guys,

738
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: you know to be with your families. And he was

739
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: really really good. Of all the guys that worked for

740
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: he was he might have been one of the best

741
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: at in game management, like during the course of the game,

742
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: just being able to identify something and tweak it. I mean,

743
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: he would put a play in that we never even

744
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: worked on. I don't know if that was for good

745
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: or for bad, but it was. It was very intenuitive

746
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: and we would get good looks. We just didn't have

747
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: guys that can make shots outside of Baby Desma Farmer.

748
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: But that was about it. But but it was, but

749
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: it was. It was great experience of working for him

750
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: because I really got to know him and he was

751
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: he was a good dude. Um, Okay, so what led

752
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: you to go and work for Lin Krueger at UNLV honestly,

753
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: USC was on the on the top and block and

754
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: it looked like, uh, they weren't gonna survive. And I

755
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: got a call of interest to go to un l V.

756
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to just leave uh Henry because

757
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: he gave me an opportunity. So I'd go into his

758
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: office and coach, if if I can just get one

759
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: more year on my contract, that's guaranteed so that they

760
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: do let you go, at least I know I'll be good.

761
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: But they weren't willing to do that. So I just

762
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: did what was best for my my family and took

763
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: the job with with coach krueger Um over UNLV. That

764
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: was his first year as well. We got him some guys.

765
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: Actually I was only there for a year, but when

766
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: we left, they went to the Sweet six team that

767
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: the with the guys that we recruited. So was wink

768
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: your guy who got him winked? No, wink was Loue

769
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: blue Hill. Blue Hill got winked. We obviously team recruited him,

770
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: but but he was the point. He was a point,

771
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: I wink he had the biggest. They went to the tournament.

772
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: His son came over from Arizona State grad transfer Wink

773
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 1: was there. Those are the so who got lou Almonson's

774
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: that you? Yeah, well he would know LOUI when the

775
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: white skill player. But all that I just named the

776
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 1: three best dudes. You didn't get that market. I'm taking

777
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: good about Joel. He wasn't bad. He's got an NBA championship.

778
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: He wasn't bad. Do you remember the big They had

779
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: a big kid uh from Africa and I'm drawing than

780
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: on his name. They won the championship at uh Complice

781
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: Houge for Damon Powell. Holy smokes, Why am I to

782
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: get his name? It'll come to me. But but he was.

783
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: He started for him too, So I had three starters.

784
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: And Joe dark I recruited there as well. And Joe

785
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: dark I spoke with yesterday. He actually lives here in Phoenix.

786
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: We're supposed to get together next week. He does flooring

787
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: and stuff now, so he's gonna do about floor for me.

788
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: So now, Joe, that's a perfect example does of why

789
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: I got into coaching. Every even I never even coached Joe.

790
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: He I recruited him there and we're still friends to

791
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: this day. Because it's at the end of the day, man,

792
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: That's why I got into this whole thing was to

793
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: kind of give back and teach and give life lessons

794
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: and kind of that was it. And I and I

795
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: just thought about that as you said that I didn't

796
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: even coach Joe, but he helped them win. But it

797
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: wasn't It's not even about that. It was about the

798
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: relationships man, and and and and listen, here's my hundred

799
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: deer theory. Okay, and a hundred years were all dead.

800
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: What did you do? What was your Were you dropping

801
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: the ocean or were you a tidal wave or a

802
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: ripple because of all the people that you touched and

803
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: then they went and touch because of what you taught them.

804
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to be a tidal wave in a

805
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: hundred years. That's my theory. That's my theory. Let's stick

806
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: it to it. Okay, Wait, so you go. Did you

807
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: did a home visit with Joe Darker? Right here? You

808
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 1: are marvelous marvel menzi from from from Los Angeles? Right

809
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 1: who had a who had a nightclub, a bakery, coach

810
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: at Juko, you know, talking anybody Joe Darker. I believe

811
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: if I remember like seven siblings, there's like eight kids, right,

812
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: great memory exactly right from Utah. So I'm getting like

813
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: Mormon eight So what what what do you meant? What

814
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: was that home visit? Like? All right? So so we

815
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: were talking about this ironically just a few days ago

816
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: when I was talking to Joe. So we're going to

817
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: the house. There's I'm not kidding you were at the

818
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: dinner table. It's like twelve people sitting at the dinner table. Okay,

819
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: because the coach from from un lbs there. So so

820
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: we go in and I'll tell us stories and there

821
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: laughing and we're having a blast. And he's got a

822
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: nephew that he said, hey, coach, you gotta see this.

823
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: I said, see what? So his nephew is like maybe

824
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: five four or five years old, And I went to

825
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: a picture like an arc in a in a in

826
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: a house that's just like a walk away, you know,

827
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: and there's an art there right, so the kids, I

828
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: can't forget it. I can't remember his name. But he

829
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: grabs the wall it starts to climb like the strongest

830
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: little kid I've ever met in my life. He's climbed

831
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: up the wall through the top of the ceiling and

832
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: he's like tim beat up in the air upside now

833
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: continues to climb and goes up and comes down on

834
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: the other side. I've never say anything like. It was

835
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: like a like a certain day Slay, you know show

836
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: in the middle of dinner and uh so Joe, Joe says,

837
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: actually he lives here now he lives in Phoenix. I

838
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: can't wait to see if we get he's pright right,

839
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: doesn't look anything like be dead, but he's right still

840
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: as strong. So home visits top five all time just

841
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: as far as connection and chemistry. And I was just

842
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: myself and they were just a great family and it

843
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: was just a good ship for him to go and

844
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: he had a good career there. Yeah, and that's the

845
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, outside of Utah, Vegas is like the second

846
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: uh most populated area with Mormons because it's crazy, no doubt.

847
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: Um okay. So then you go work for Rick Pettino.

848
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: Now Lon Krueger, Lon Cruger by all estimations, is like

849
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: all time greatest guys, super classy, loves to play golf,

850
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: but you know, just a just a complete gentleman. Now

851
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: that's not to take any shot at Rick Petino, but

852
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: Patino is a Again, this is based upon reputation, especially

853
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: then a very very demanding boss to work for. He

854
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: made you work out. You had to work out with

855
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: the team or with the trainer. What was the workout

856
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: schedule he we had? We had? He told me, He

857
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: told me when I got hired, Okay, you're gonna because

858
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: I needed to lose some weight. So he said, all right,

859
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: well you're gonna lose the weight. You're gonna you're gonna

860
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: work out with this uh in the mornings early. If

861
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: you don't make weight on Fridays, then you don't you

862
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: can't go out and recruit. And he said it very

863
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: calm and just, and I'm thinking to myself, Okay, what

864
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: do you mean to make weight? Well, we're having established

865
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: weight that you have to have every week, and if

866
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: you don't make it, then you can't go out on

867
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: the road. And and and will help you continue to

868
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: because you just have to get up earlier and you

869
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: just start working out with the with the strength and

870
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: condition to coach, and we'll be a little bit more

871
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: hands on with it. And I'm going, I'm kind of

872
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: chuckling in the in the interview, and I'm going, is

873
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: he serious? And he wasn't playing. I lost fifty pounds

874
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,360
Speaker 1: when I was with him, I got down to one A.

875
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: I think it was uh yeah, there was no joke.

876
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: I didn't even think I could lose fifty pounds. But hey,

877
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: he's he's a he's a great motivator. Listen to us

878
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 1: like um tent in ten detail or ended greatest skill Development.

879
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: One of the best I've ever worked for. Learned a

880
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: lot from him, obviously, he takes a lot of pride

881
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: in mentoring his coach is probably the most loyal guy

882
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: you want to meet in the business when it comes

883
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: to looking after his family, his guys. I mean, if

884
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: I was involved with any job, you know, Coach p

885
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: was didn't hesitate to want to call and and and

886
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: even get me involved with the where some more most

887
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: guys are kind of like, well, you know, if you

888
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: get in, you know, I'll call let's see, you know,

889
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: if they don't want to. Some guys are like that.

890
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: You know, he wasn't. He was like, you know, we

891
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: talked all the time. I was still and he was

892
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 1: just he was amazing. Now he's I I have said

893
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: he is the greatest modern day basketball mind. I mean

894
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: what people forget is when he was with the Celtics,

895
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: they tanked before it was popular tank. They had two

896
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: lottery picks. They just missed on Tim duncan Um. When

897
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: he was with the Knicks, that was the first NBA

898
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: team really embraced the three point shot, and he obviously

899
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: used that when he was at Province they went to

900
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: the Final four. His mixture of of pressure and the

901
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: zones and then he he changed and morphed his offense

902
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: when he's in Kentucky and then at Louisville. Uh, he's

903
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: he's just amazing basketball mind and basketball coach. And it

904
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: really is a shame because of you know, how it

905
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: ended at Louisville. I think cast the shadow over what

906
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: was really remarkable, remarkable run to a national championship and

907
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: and what really happened, what that that program was really

908
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: like when you were there? Oh it Uh you know,

909
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: So when I got calls on this from all kinds

910
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 1: of media, when everything was jumping off of that un

911
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: l lead you and LB when he was going under

912
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: that firestorm there, and I just just should tell everyone

913
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: the same thing, which was that wouldn't happen while we

914
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: were there. I just cannot see like he he is

915
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: so different. Um, I shouldn't say. I'll give you an

916
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,320
Speaker 1: example but it's not the same though now, Like I

917
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: had a coach i'll leave his name out of it,

918
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: who told me in his next before this stuff went down,

919
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: he was like, Hey, something really weird. Haven't we played lout?

920
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: What do you mean weird? He's like, we played him

921
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: at their place. We we When I showered and we

922
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: went out to our bus, his car was already gone.

923
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: Whereas in the past, be like he and I had

924
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: heard like at the end, and this is one of

925
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: the reasons it went bad, was at the end he

926
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: spent so much time in Miami and so much time

927
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: in New York, and he was he had just kind

928
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: of grown past the everyday thing and allowed others to

929
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: take care of the little thing. And that's where it

930
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: went a straight That's what I was told that a

931
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: guy who Okay, I'll address that because I can tell

932
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: you this. I stayed close to the program after I

933
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: was gone and a new a bunch of assistants and

934
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: was close with them obviously and um we're not obviously,

935
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: but was close with him, helped coach and assessing who

936
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: hiring a couple of those spots. Kevin Keats, you know,

937
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: and I were buddies from when he was a pre

938
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 1: school coach and so forth. But in and Andre played

939
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: for him, obviously, So here's uh, here's the deal. I

940
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: think coach, and I don't know when you say his

941
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: car made be gone? Okay, what was he doing? Who

942
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: did he have an appointment? Who knows? You know, he

943
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: can't judge anything off his car not being there. I mean,

944
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: the bottom line was the man cared about his players,

945
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: he cared about his staff. He was definitely in touch

946
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: with the accountability courtion. How how it happened and how

947
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: it unfolded, I wasn't there. I can't tell you, obviously,

948
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: I can't for a minute. I believe that he knew

949
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: what was going on. And now is that his fault? Okay,

950
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: well he's already said that, Yes, Okay, I I should

951
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: have done a better job and and uh maybe this

952
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: monitoring the assistance or something like that. But but I

953
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: cannot believe for a minute that he knew. He just

954
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: it just is. It's the man I worked for. Would

955
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: have I mean, he would have fired me in a

956
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: New York minute had he known that I was putting

957
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: on you know, having stippers over at the at Minority Hall,

958
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: which is his guy's place. I mean, it's I mean,

959
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: there's no way. I just I fil To this day,

960
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, yeah, not coach, Yeah yeah, Now

961
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: I asked not to say that. Things don't happen, and

962
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: you know, he could have maybe done something differently. He'll

963
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: probably admit that, but but I I just don't believe

964
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: he knew about it. Um, how did you get the

965
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: New Mexico Stage job? Coach Coach Patino? Um, basically, Reggie

966
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: was there. Reggie worked for coach and took over New

967
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: Mexico State, did a really good job, and he was

968
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: there for I think a couple of years and they

969
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: went to the n C Double A Tournament, lost to Texas,

970
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: and Reggie had the promotion with the MALUSI knew those

971
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: guys from the NBA got a chance to go work

972
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: with the Sacramento Kings opened up New Mexico State, and

973
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: obviously he did a good job. And uh McKinley Boston

974
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: was the athletic director there and had a great relationship

975
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: with coach with coach Patino, so it was it was

976
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: just a natural. It was like, all right, give me

977
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: another one of your guys. Yea. He had that kind

978
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: of due, you know he did, so you get there, Um,

979
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: Pascal Siakam, what was what was his recruitment? Like, you know,

980
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: it's interesting he I have a extensive relationships internationally both Europe, Africa,

981
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: some of the Caribbean, and and I went over and

982
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: saw this kid in Africa, and um had some guys

983
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: that told me about him and so forth. And when

984
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: he uh, when he came to the US, he just

985
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: he wasn't he was underneath the radar because he was

986
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: very very raw. Coaches, college coaches go out, they see

987
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: African kids that in high school at their juniors or

988
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: seniors and they're not polished, then they usually move on

989
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 1: because they stereotype and they think they're you know, well

990
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 1: he's not. You can't catch They got bad hands and

991
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 1: they got this or they got that. Well. The thing

992
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: about Pascal, as I noticed his progression, he just kept

993
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: getting better. Like every time I go see him, every

994
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: time in the system go sa him, it was his

995
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: improvement was remarkable. Uh. And then it just catapulted when

996
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: he was actually with US and we recruited him there

997
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: and he came and uh, and then when his father passed,

998
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: his motivation moved to a whole another level. It was

999
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: already in upper echelon. But I've never seen a I mean,

1000
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: we used to have to try to kick him out

1001
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: at the gym so could get rest. It was it

1002
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: was you don't come across guys like that often, and

1003
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: that's why he is where he is today. But but

1004
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: the recruitment process itself was was pretty straightforward in the

1005
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: sense that just guys didn't who who who. I think

1006
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: he could have played at a much higher level. But

1007
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: but he but he developed underneithers too, and he got

1008
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: playing time and he continued to get better and better

1009
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: and better because he was on the floor. Had he

1010
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,879
Speaker 1: gone too high of a level, might not have worked out.

1011
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: So it was a perfect fit, perfect timing and really

1012
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: really happy for him. What were those big guys you had,

1013
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: just gigantic, the Boulard brothers, baby brothers seven five or

1014
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: seventh three uh from India originally their their heritage from India,

1015
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: the parents from media and they were born in Canada,

1016
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: I believe, but uh Sim and Tan beer Um and

1017
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, we we recruited guys like that by design

1018
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: because our conference a whack was very I didn't have size,

1019
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: you know. But the big boys that size, right, anybody,

1020
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: anytime you got the playoff situation or tournament, you're going

1021
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: to go against somebody that had a foot or six

1022
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 1: eleven athletic dude. And that's all who We really concentrated

1023
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 1: on doing a good job development and recruiting big players.

1024
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 1: So we we had two Leasy Nepowe and we had

1025
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: Sam and tam Beer. Pascal was only the only six nine,

1026
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: but we had a bunch of six ten and six

1027
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: eleven tides in my tenure. That helps us to have

1028
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: a lot of success there. Yeah, it's interesting. You know,

1029
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: you have these guys from all over the world. What's

1030
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 1: that like to cry? Well, what's that? What's that like

1031
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: to coach? You know? I enjoy it because it as

1032
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: another dynamic to the locker room where the US kids

1033
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: are getting myself in a sling here. But the US

1034
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 1: kids are wired and and and raised in a in

1035
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: a culture that's much different than other cultures. There. They're

1036
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: they're selfish, they're entitled. Hey I'm taking the year off.

1037
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: I can tell the Okay, Yeah, they're they're just it's

1038
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: it's it's everything's changed. You remember when and maybe you

1039
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: remember this, remember when there were The only thing on

1040
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: TV for sports was ABC Wild Word of Sports, and

1041
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: the guy was crashing off on Sunday nights, crashing off

1042
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: the hill ski and that was the beginning of the show.

1043
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: You might have missed that. I remember the agony of defeat, right, yeah,

1044
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: no question, that was it. But that was it, I

1045
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: think about it. There were no podcasts or no ESPN,

1046
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: there was no Fox Sports and all of that stuff.

1047
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 1: That was it. We had one show for sports on

1048
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: Sunday night. Track and Field was uge, and Olympic sports

1049
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: were huge, and and it was a different time, you know,

1050
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: and and team and unity and and and and uh

1051
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: you know National Pride, We're awesome. Uh. And then the

1052
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: Internet came and then you know, all of these media

1053
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,319
Speaker 1: outlets and uh self promotional type deals. I mean even

1054
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: now today in the NBA they said Lebron versus this

1055
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 1: guy or you know what they don't they don't say,

1056
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: like the good old days of Boston Lakers is you know,

1057
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: maybe they'll come back one day, but it's gone. Those

1058
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: those days are not in existence. And it trickled down

1059
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: to the to the youth. The youth were you know,

1060
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: becoming my minutes, my exposure, my opportunity to play at

1061
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 1: the highest level. Um, you know, and just everything that

1062
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: comes with the scouting and the the the what you cause,

1063
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: the AU programs and who you know, kids bouncing around

1064
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: from the AU program, AU program because because of playing time,

1065
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 1: and it's just a really selfish me generation. And and

1066
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: so to get back to the original questions, there's a

1067
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: lot of kids that didn't grow up in that environment

1068
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: that were humble, hard working, appreciative UM that brought a

1069
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: different dynamic to the locker room. And uh, I thought,

1070
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: I thought that that that was one of the reasons

1071
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: that I could get if I can get these guys

1072
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: in the same pot, there's big melting pot together that

1073
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: the gumbo would come out, come about tastes and sweet

1074
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 1: and and we had some great relationships that were developed,

1075
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: a great teammates they're developing and a lot of life

1076
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: lessons were learned as a result of me having a

1077
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: variety of cultures to educate. You had a ton of

1078
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: success there. And then un o V had hired Cris

1079
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 1: Beard and he changed that mind. He goes to Texas Tech. Um.

1080
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: Uh you know, like, look, it's it's one of those

1081
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 1: jobs that I know, how you're thinking at the time

1082
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: like you and l V like I can take Yeah,

1083
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,359
Speaker 1: you gotta take it. But but I also I also

1084
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 1: knew know a lot about what was going on behind

1085
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: the scenes, you know, should you have turned it down?

1086
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: Like what in hindsight? Uh, take me through your thoughts

1087
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,919
Speaker 1: on you, l V. Well, in hindsight, if I could

1088
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 1: go back in anything, I'd probably be a multi billionaire

1089
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 1: right now, right um, But but you have to everybody,

1090
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: everybody has to learn from from the success for and

1091
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: learn for the mistakes. And so to say, like, I

1092
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: don't think in hindsight like I feel like people who

1093
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: say that that's bullshit. It doesn't mean that you have

1094
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: to live in the past. But you do have to

1095
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: learn from the past, absolutely, and I learned a great

1096
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: deal there. I have no regrets for taking that job.

1097
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: I have. I'm a hundred percent a rebel fan. I

1098
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: hope they that t J does a great job but

1099
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: continues to win. They probably have three of my kids

1100
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,959
Speaker 1: starting probably next year. I think Bryce will probably start,

1101
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: Marvin's got a chance to start, and uh uhmbak a,

1102
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: John's got a chance to start. So I'll be watching

1103
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: those guys and pulling for them every step of the way,

1104
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: you know it was it was, Yes, it was challenging situation,

1105
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 1: and I got a little bit of an ego. Oh

1106
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: I thought I could. I thought I could get in there.

1107
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: And it didn't matter who was the president or who

1108
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: was the ideal. You know, they were gonna they were

1109
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: gonna keep me around because I was doing so well.

1110
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: We just didn't win enough for for their for their liking.

1111
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: And I don't hold that against Desiray at all. I

1112
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: think she's, you know, a great up and coming athletic

1113
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: director who has to make you know, how to make

1114
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: a tough decision. I think we had a great relationship

1115
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: and we're still you know, we still text every once

1116
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: in a blue moon, and you know, it just it

1117
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: was a journey man, It was a chapter and I

1118
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: tried to get the most out of it going forward.

1119
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: Like you said, you try to learn from the past,

1120
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: and I don't think I do much differently, to be

1121
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: honest with you. There was a different philosophical um uh,

1122
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: different philosophical approach when I my first year in terms

1123
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: of we wanted consistency, we want to grow the program,

1124
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: and then there that a d gets let go and

1125
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: the president decided to leave. So now I got a

1126
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,479
Speaker 1: new regime who's like we need to win in So okay,

1127
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: wait hold off. But you know, at the end of

1128
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: the day, I understood, and I uh, you know, I

1129
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity. Yeah that that ain't that. Come on, dude,

1130
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: you didn't get no, I mean, who gets that that

1131
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: little time? Well you know what I got, I got Yeah.

1132
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean technically it was three, but it was really

1133
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: too because of the first situation, I mean, the first year.

1134
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: But but it is what it is. I don't know.

1135
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you should have got a longer contract and

1136
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: we're guaranteed at the back end. I don't know. So okay,

1137
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: so this should also this should also be more black

1138
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: head coaches, and there should also be this and this

1139
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: should awfully But okay, so let me let me let

1140
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: me ask you all things that that you gotta that

1141
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 1: you gotta work through, Like you said, you know, you

1142
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: gotta learn from, you gotta try to try to grow from. Okay,

1143
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: so let's let's let's just go. We got about like

1144
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: five minutes. Let's discuss the black head coach thing. Okay,

1145
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: because because it's interesting, Like I view the Pack twelve

1146
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: as like Look, those schools are as open to hiring

1147
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: whomever as any. They have no black head coaches. On

1148
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: the other hand, if I was being fair, I would

1149
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: say Henry Biby and George Raveling have been the head

1150
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: coach at USC. UM you know, uh Don Newman was

1151
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: the interim coach, and then they've had a couple of

1152
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: black head coaches at at Arizona State, right, UM, US

1153
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: had Larry Farmer Walt Hazards. It's not like they have.

1154
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: Cow's two previous head coach to Mark Fox were both

1155
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: with Conso Martin and um who was the other one

1156
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: was liked on the last like two years they're both

1157
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: He was young guy, you Louisville guy. What's his name? Shoot? No?

1158
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: That at cal who's head coach before Whakey Jones? Right,

1159
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: another l a guy, but also a Louisville guy. You know,

1160
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: Romar was the head coach at you dubbed forever before

1161
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,880
Speaker 1: you got fired. Um. The last coach at Oregon and

1162
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: Washington State was the same guy, Ernie Kent again African

1163
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: American coach. Okay, so, but but why why why do

1164
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: you believe the overall number of black head coaches so low?

1165
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: Right now? When it's a sport that has given black

1166
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: head coaches opportunities in the past, why are the numbers

1167
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: down instead of up. Well, first of all, I don't

1168
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: think you can look at any You have to look

1169
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: at every coach on his own merit and see what

1170
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: he could bring to the table. I don't think enough

1171
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: black coaches are getting a legitimate uh look. So it

1172
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: comes back down to how many are really being considered

1173
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: in the in the in the interview process as compared to, well,

1174
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: we better interview a black coach, you know, for perception

1175
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: uh token token interviews, so to speak. But um, I

1176
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: think that's changing. I think the social injustice is opening

1177
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: eyes across the country to say, hey, wait a minute,

1178
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we need to to operate a little

1179
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: bit differently and and and give at least and the opportunity.

1180
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they should hire coach because he's black, right,

1181
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying they should hire They should hire the a

1182
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: guy that they think is capable of doing the job

1183
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: then and if he happens to be black, that would

1184
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: be great. But they're not going to know if they're

1185
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 1: not legitimately getting looked at. I mean, you've got guys

1186
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: that I mean, man, I mean, there's so many really

1187
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: good coaches that are out there even now that have

1188
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: great career winning percentages you know that that have have

1189
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: haven't aren't really getting legitimately considered because of I mean,

1190
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 1: how many times as a as here are the other

1191
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 1: thing that we only got five minutes. So actually this

1192
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: is I probably have to call you another time to

1193
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: get into this deeper because I don't want to. I

1194
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: don't want to just touch it, not really you know,

1195
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: give my message across the right way with examples and

1196
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But I will just tell you this.

1197
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: I think that it is. It is more guys got

1198
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: to be considered. More African American coaches need to be

1199
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: sidered Black coaches, whateveryone're calling, uh it need to be considered,

1200
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: um for for for those types of jobs. And I

1201
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: just don't think that has happened. Um okay, so um,

1202
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: give me your give me your best Santa Monica City story,

1203
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 1: Santa Monica City story. Let me see. Oh god man,

1204
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: there's several. I probably probably Jamie Fox. I'm running the nightclub.

1205
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:20,560
Speaker 1: I met, I met, I met, uh my Santa Monica cousin.

1206
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm running the nightclub. I go over and my buddy

1207
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: tells me, hey, man, you gotta see this guy who's

1208
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: gonna be amazing. So a couple of my older players

1209
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 1: come with me, uh, and we go and we watched

1210
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: Jamie Fox for about two hours perform on the piano

1211
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: do comedy seeing invitations and we were in tears for

1212
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: like an amaze for like hour and forty five or so,

1213
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: and I'm going, who is this dude? And then you know,

1214
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: history takes off after that. But I remember sitting there

1215
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: with my guys going this is this is amazing. It's

1216
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: not a basketball story, but it was like wow, like

1217
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: like this is I am watching the next Richard Pryor

1218
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm watching the next you know whoever, like right now.

1219
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,919
Speaker 1: And I knew it. I knew it, but he wasn't

1220
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: popular with paid mus Get in U last thing. You

1221
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: got a beautiful wife, kids, family house in Phoenix. You're

1222
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: collecting a correct crazy check from Grand Canyon, right. Uh.

1223
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: You think things are good for Marvelous, You've done a

1224
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: lot of things. Will will you be a head coach again?

1225
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: You know that's a great question. I would go to

1226
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: the right situation at eight, but I wouldn't I have.

1227
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm not chasing it to just get back in. I

1228
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: have a desire to. I still have a lot left

1229
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: to give, obviously a lot less to share and teach,

1230
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: but but I'm I have to do somewhere where you know,

1231
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: I would be wanted and and and pursued a little

1232
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: bit probably, And it's and it's a good alignment. And

1233
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, they got a chance to win their conference.

1234
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: They've got a stable president and athletic director and so

1235
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 1: on and so forth. I mean, there's a lot of

1236
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: dynamics are going whether I would get back in. I

1237
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: will say this, Brian Beuler, who was the president at

1238
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: Grant Can University, has been awesome to me and has

1239
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: given me great opportunities to dabble in some other things

1240
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: right now that are very intriguing to be that I'm

1241
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: that I'm doing internationally and and um, I'm in a

1242
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: position and his assistant and kind of kind of a

1243
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: special assistant to him working with some some projects that

1244
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: I that I have experience and relationships with, and and

1245
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: that's really fun. So I'm enjoying the COVID year off.

1246
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: But only God knows where to where the marvelous one

1247
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: will be in a in a year from now. All right,

1248
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna call you back. We're gonna have a conversation.

1249
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: We'll have a couple other guests on with us, and

1250
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: we'll discuss the paucity of blackhead coaches, individual and basketball

1251
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: in the meantime. Marvelous. Thanks for sharing your story. Uh

1252
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: great catching up with you and we'll talk soon. You

1253
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: got a brother, take care man. All right, thanks Marvin,

1254
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 1: listen if you If you like interviews like this, check

1255
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: out The Doug Gotlip Show daily three to six Eastern time,

1256
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: Talk to three Pacific on on Fox Sports Radio, the

1257
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio Apple ever you download podcast, you can

1258
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: download the hourly or daily version of the show. In

1259
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: the meantime. Next week we'll get more on the NBA,

1260
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: more in the Western Eastern Conference finals, and the college

1261
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: basketball bubbles which are starting to form. Will make sure

1262
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: they don't pop in the meantime. Thank you so much

1263
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: for downloading. Don't forget to subscribe and to rate. I'm

1264
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 1: Doug Gottliebin. This is all ball