Speaker 1: I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's
Speaker 1: Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show
Speaker 1: about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together,
Speaker 1: we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders
Speaker 1: of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or
Speaker 1: join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast.
Speaker 1: This is part two of our two part series with
Speaker 1: entrepreneur Sarah Leflour, CEO and founder of clothing brand mm Leflour. Sarah,
Speaker 1: you have had a wild two years personally. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: you you went through a lot and then I mean
Speaker 1: this just expansive beauty that you welcomed three babies in
Speaker 1: seven weeks. Yeah, I know, it was. It was insane.
Speaker 1: It this was all through COVID as well. And you
Speaker 1: know what, actually, I honestly think that got me through it.
Speaker 1: I think if I had if I were like a
Speaker 1: percent my job, which is I would say definitely how
Speaker 1: I was pretty kids, then I think I might have
Speaker 1: just crumbled under the stress. But there was something about like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: like I've got three humans, defeat, got gotta go. You
Speaker 1: know that, like made it somehow manageable. But yes, the
Speaker 1: backing up a little bit, Yes, my long story is that, um,
Speaker 1: you know I struggled to get pregnant for really well yeah,
Speaker 1: for a while. But I think pretty early on I
Speaker 1: learned that I had a congenital condition called a unicornuate uterus,
Speaker 1: which basically means I have half a uterus. It's kind
Speaker 1: of shape like a banana, which is so strange. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a banana shaped uterus, and I have one
Speaker 1: fallopian tube. And so you know, as it is, like
Speaker 1: my chase are getting a pregnant or lower just because
Speaker 1: like you ovulate not you know, you're not always rotating
Speaker 1: one one um ovulating from one over versus the other,
Speaker 1: but just it just basically means your chances are kind
Speaker 1: of have to begin with. And then the biggest problem
Speaker 1: was that they you know, they said, like, you're you're
Speaker 1: likely to miscarry in your second trimester, even your third trimester,
Speaker 1: so you probably want to consider surrogacy from the get go.
Speaker 1: And I, you know, I had a hard time kind
Speaker 1: of getting over that emotionally, Like that was a big
Speaker 1: hurdle for me. So you know, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: why don't I why don't I try first with IVF
Speaker 1: and multiple miscarriages, you know, things really just like not
Speaker 1: playing out the way I had hoped. And that went
Speaker 1: on for basically two plus two and a half years,
Speaker 1: and ultimately, um, we did turn to surrogacy and I
Speaker 1: my husband Chris, and I met this incredible woman, Tricia,
Speaker 1: who is the mom of two girls, twin girls, and
Speaker 1: she agreed to be our carrier and we tried one
Speaker 1: transfer with her um in that ild, which was devastating
Speaker 1: because you kind of think like this is the last thing. Um, Like,
Speaker 1: if this doesn't work, I don't know where else to turn. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it didn't work, and so I said, Okay, I want
Speaker 1: to try it one more time with a slightly different
Speaker 1: protocol at IVF protocol. I got pregnant, but I was,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty sure I was going to miscarry again.
Speaker 1: So I was like, let's try one more time with Tricia.
Speaker 1: And Tricia said, you know, I wanted to try with
Speaker 1: two embryos, like I feel like it's going to work
Speaker 1: this time. And anyway, we did it, and somehow that
Speaker 1: was the time that it worked. And this is like literally,
Speaker 1: I want to say, like three weeks before we went
Speaker 1: into lockdown, but Mushi Tricia ended up giving birth to
Speaker 1: our twins in September, and and I actually, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of convinced that the only reason I actually was able
Speaker 1: to carry it a term was because of COVID. As
Speaker 1: terrible as that sounds, like I was at home all
Speaker 1: the time, like I wasn't running around like a crazy person,
Speaker 1: and uh, I always had my feet up, so I am.
Speaker 1: And actually that's that's been like I think that's been
Speaker 1: reported in the New York Times that like they were
Speaker 1: seeing historic rates of a decrease in Nikkei babies during COVID.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so so they were born back to back,
Speaker 1: and we flew out to Minnesota in September to welcome them.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I owed Tricia everything. And then
Speaker 1: you gave birth when August early August? Did you take
Speaker 1: your baby with you to meet his siblings? So we
Speaker 1: didn't because we were so worried about COVID and it
Speaker 1: looks like we were going to have to quarantine. It
Speaker 1: was all like the it was one of those days
Speaker 1: where the state laws were constantly changing to say, like
Speaker 1: which state is now on the quarantine list versus which state?
Speaker 1: Which States are not, and we were terrified that Kento
Speaker 1: was going to get COVID. And that was again a
Speaker 1: time we didn't know all that much about kids in COVID.
Speaker 1: So we ended up leaving in with my mother in
Speaker 1: law and my aunt. My parents were still in Japan
Speaker 1: this at this point. They didn't actually get to meet
Speaker 1: the kids until they were closer to one, but my
Speaker 1: bless them, My my mother in law my aunt were
Speaker 1: champions and you know, they did all the night feeds
Speaker 1: and all of that, and so we brought them back.
Speaker 1: I think about it about ten days later. So what
Speaker 1: is the day like now? I mean, now you are
Speaker 1: running a company and you have three small children. I
Speaker 1: will be I will say like, I do it with
Speaker 1: a lot of help, and I just want to be
Speaker 1: like super transparent about this because um, I've got a
Speaker 1: nanny and a no pair and that is how we
Speaker 1: make it work. And we've also got my mother in
Speaker 1: law often coming to help, and my parents often coming
Speaker 1: to help. And I somehow still feel like that's not
Speaker 1: enough help. You know, just a month ago we all
Speaker 1: had COVID and so it was just me, my husband
Speaker 1: and actually my mom also got COVID with us which
Speaker 1: was actually it helped because we had three adults instead
Speaker 1: of two, and all of our kids dad COVID, and
Speaker 1: I surprisingly got really really sick, to the point where
Speaker 1: like day twelve, I'm having to take pax Lovid and um,
Speaker 1: it was so hard. And then the day we're supposed to,
Speaker 1: you know, emerge from quarantine, our nanny got COVID, and
Speaker 1: actually right now our pair has COVID. So like it
Speaker 1: just if I'm being totally honest, it does feel like
Speaker 1: I am solving for one day at a time. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like every single day, I'm like, okay, do we
Speaker 1: have childcare today? Okay, good, I can go to work.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, do you have tips? My tip
Speaker 1: like listening to you a like, it is really hard,
Speaker 1: and COVID has made parenting children so much harder in
Speaker 1: different ways for babies, in different ways for teenagers. Right
Speaker 1: my kids are young, they're seven. I have four girls
Speaker 1: who are seven, six, four, and three. But listening to
Speaker 1: your story, like I had to text Sam earlier today
Speaker 1: and I was like, just so you know, today's madness
Speaker 1: because there's no babysitter and the kids don't have camp,
Speaker 1: there's COVID and another and one of my siblings families
Speaker 1: and everything's a mess. But like I think that used
Speaker 1: to derail me completely and now I'm like, well, this
Speaker 1: is just what we're doing, right, and like we have
Speaker 1: to do the best we can with what we have
Speaker 1: where we are in this wild different world we live in.
Speaker 1: And everyone I work with knows like I'll like I'll
Speaker 1: be you know, waiting for some practice and taking calls,
Speaker 1: or I get up really early and I work for
Speaker 1: an hour and a half. Of their styles sleep, but
Speaker 1: like I'm not available sometimes in the middle of the
Speaker 1: day for chunks of the day and that's life. And
Speaker 1: then like Sam is my motherhood mentor because she's a
Speaker 1: years ahead of me. But the other thing I would
Speaker 1: say too, is just that like there are there are
Speaker 1: some things of like that I do tactically, Like I
Speaker 1: put all of my kids clothes in the laundry room.
Speaker 1: They live in the clip the clothes stay in the
Speaker 1: laundr room. Their closets and their bedrooms are empty. That's
Speaker 1: really I don't care. It's like you're all getting dressed
Speaker 1: in here hours of time and then and they're fine
Speaker 1: with it. And the other thing is I do the
Speaker 1: same thing for dinner every Monday, the same thing every Tuesday,
Speaker 1: the same thing every Wednesday, which makes grocery ordering super easy.
Speaker 1: I don't think about it. I change it like every
Speaker 1: a few months. But that's it. That's amazing advice. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of my mom when when I was like
Speaker 1: folding the baby clothes once, she was like, why are
Speaker 1: you folding them? And I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1: She was like, just put them in a basket and
Speaker 1: put it away and you can just dig for whatever
Speaker 1: you need. And I was like, okay, just like surprisingly
Speaker 1: saved so much time. But yeah, you know, thank you
Speaker 1: for for just even like sharing that, because I think
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel I feel tremendous guilt, especially towards my colleagues,
Speaker 1: you know, who are working so hard and I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I need to like hold up my
Speaker 1: end of the bargain. And and that has felt really
Speaker 1: hard the past two years. And so you know, I
Speaker 1: realized how I mean, I'm clearly super privileged. I also
Speaker 1: run my own company, so I get to set my
Speaker 1: own times, but it's um I do try to share
Speaker 1: out with my team and like make it really clear,
Speaker 1: and I am hoping I think. You know, I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking about my executive team. It's all women. UM. Now,
Speaker 1: it's not It wasn't like intentional. That's just kind of
Speaker 1: how you know, people came, people left, and now we've
Speaker 1: got an all female team. Um and for our moms
Speaker 1: and and uh, we've all been going through some some
Speaker 1: type of COVID COVID situation, and so I think we're
Speaker 1: trying to show a lot of grace and understanding with
Speaker 1: each other so that we can all make it work.
Speaker 1: I'll share two things, Sarah. First, you clearly earned your
Speaker 1: team's respect with your intense pre kid work ethics, So
Speaker 1: I think you can drop the guilt there. They know
Speaker 1: the Sarah who gives a hundred and fifty percent of
Speaker 1: the time. You know. So this is a moment. I
Speaker 1: like to call the first five years of parenting the
Speaker 1: maintenance eres. It's so much manual labor and you just
Speaker 1: have to get through them. And once the kids are
Speaker 1: four or five, it will be ten times easier and
Speaker 1: you'll be in the honeymoon period until the teen years.
Speaker 1: Trust me, I know that. So this will go on
Speaker 1: for that much longer. You're right, and I you know
Speaker 1: it's um, I mean, I love my job, so I
Speaker 1: and also you know, I'm founder CEO. I would never leave.
Speaker 1: But it is one of those moments where I suddenly
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I get why women leave the workforce now,
Speaker 1: and I know, and I've got to like a super supportive,
Speaker 1: truly like fifty fifty husband. But it's just I seem
Speaker 1: to be like, well, I mean, he's definitely affected by
Speaker 1: it too. What we joke, we're like one of us
Speaker 1: has to be the wife, who is it gonna be?
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so so three more years, three more years.
Speaker 1: These baby years are really short and our careers are long,
Speaker 1: so it's important not to make short term decisions that
Speaker 1: affect your career forever. Amy and I tried to share
Speaker 1: this with women, because once you get through those tougher years,
Speaker 1: you'll be so happy you maintained what you had. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also you can, like you can still build during these years.
Speaker 1: Like you know, I started the riveter when I was
Speaker 1: I didn't know it, but I was pregnant with my
Speaker 1: third daughter in three years and like you can do that,
Speaker 1: like like you, Sarah, I would say, I hadn't a
Speaker 1: wild amount of support. I had to nanny's and my mother,
Speaker 1: and it never felt all the same. Like, you're not
Speaker 1: alone in that when you have many children from young
Speaker 1: Sam had her kids close together to you need a
Speaker 1: massive amount of support and that is a big privilege
Speaker 1: to do that, but it's a privilege that you pay
Speaker 1: for completely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I also think you know,
Speaker 1: Sam has always said this to me because I'm still
Speaker 1: I'm still in that phase right my youngest is three.
Speaker 1: But it also applies to your marriage. I mean you're
Speaker 1: talking about you know, like with your husband's also juggling
Speaker 1: with taking care of the kids and his job, but
Speaker 1: like your marriage during this period. Like when people ask
Speaker 1: me how my marriage is, I'm like, it's fine, but
Speaker 1: like we have little kids, what does this even matter? Right?
Speaker 1: Like the focus right now? Right and like and like
Speaker 1: and that's okay because you can't have everything to be
Speaker 1: wonderful and you can't dedicate massive amounts of time to
Speaker 1: every relationship that you have with work, with your spouse,
Speaker 1: with your kids. Like it's just ever shifting. And so
Speaker 1: I think that getting through these years is really hard
Speaker 1: and there's no easy way around it. It's so true.
Speaker 1: Um my husband, I thought, like feral cats during COVID,
Speaker 1: I thought I thought one of us is gonna kill
Speaker 1: the other one. I'm not true it's gonna be, but
Speaker 1: somehow made through alive, and I think our marriage is
Speaker 1: stronger for it. UM's test testing are We've been together
Speaker 1: since college, so you know, I got we're almost at
Speaker 1: seventeen years. But it is like I do wonder like
Speaker 1: had we not had like ample time to like just
Speaker 1: be the two of us, whether we would have survived
Speaker 1: the past two years. So yeah, it's it's testing us
Speaker 1: in ways I never knew possible. Absolutely, And in terms
Speaker 1: of the guilt thing, when you're at work, you're giving
Speaker 1: a hundred percent and at home you're giving dred percent
Speaker 1: of your energy there, so that eliminates a lot of
Speaker 1: the guilt, but when you're feeling guilty in either place,
Speaker 1: you're not giving a hundred percent. I used to feel
Speaker 1: so guilty going on business trips when my kids were little,
Speaker 1: and then I realized I wasn't doing anyone any good
Speaker 1: because my trip wasn't going as well as it could
Speaker 1: because I was feeling guilty, And then my kids weren't
Speaker 1: benefiting from the guilt. So instead I kind of shifted
Speaker 1: my mindset and I'd get on the plane and commit
Speaker 1: to leaving it all behind and being present on the trip,
Speaker 1: and that would allow me to be more present and
Speaker 1: focused on my kids when I got home. I love that,
Speaker 1: I think, I said, my mom's an entrepreneur. But she
Speaker 1: said something to me when we were all in COVID
Speaker 1: lockdown together. She said, um, my job is my most
Speaker 1: is the most interesting thing in my life. But the
Speaker 1: children are the most important thing in my life. And
Speaker 1: I thought that was a good perspective. And I was like, fine, fine,
Speaker 1: we're not the most interesting. I never thought we were.
Speaker 1: But you know, how does she feel about your career
Speaker 1: and the fact that you've taken the entrepreneurial path. I
Speaker 1: think when I said I was going to quit my
Speaker 1: most private equity because she private equity job, she was like,
Speaker 1: are you in the state? Are you out of your mind?
Speaker 1: But then I was like, she's an entrepreneur in two
Speaker 1: so there's like clearly, you know, she could not have
Speaker 1: imagined the apple falling that far from the tree. And
Speaker 1: I think she gets it. She said, she said to me,
Speaker 1: when starting a business is like taking off your stockings.
Speaker 1: It's like once you put them off, you can never
Speaker 1: put them back on. She's very philosophical, but I think
Speaker 1: it's true, you know, I am, and so she's very
Speaker 1: very supportive. Um really like she was, you know, a
Speaker 1: pioneer in many ways. Like she she lives in Japan.
Speaker 1: She started her own business in in the early nineties,
Speaker 1: really unheard of, I mean in Japan period, but like
Speaker 1: especially you know, thirty years ago, kind of just it
Speaker 1: didn't exist. And she always said, um, you know, my
Speaker 1: company is the kind of company where work in life
Speaker 1: mix all the time, and that's okay. So if if
Speaker 1: one of my kids calls me during the work day,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take the call. And if your mom
Speaker 1: is ill and you want to go home and take
Speaker 1: care of her, you go do that. And so she
Speaker 1: she you know, she's been running her company now for
Speaker 1: thirty years, and you know, it's a collective of these
Speaker 1: women who have a lot of caretaking responsibilities, whether that's
Speaker 1: Asian parents or younger kids or now grandkids. But she's like,
Speaker 1: it's all people who love to work, and so we
Speaker 1: just kind of all make it work. And I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, she's obviously, um, a big hero of mine,
Speaker 1: but I think in many ways, the her way of
Speaker 1: of approaching things has kind of slipped into my subconscious
Speaker 1: and it's just so different from I think how I
Speaker 1: was trained to work being in corporate America the first
Speaker 1: few years where I actually remember this one conversation or
Speaker 1: like one of my one of my colleagues was really
Speaker 1: sick and she needed to go to the emergency room
Speaker 1: and her boss said something to the effective, well, like,
Speaker 1: you can't really get sick at this job, as though
Speaker 1: it were like a choice, you know, But that's that's
Speaker 1: actually so much of I think how corporate America operates
Speaker 1: or and has offer read it. Hopefully it's starting to
Speaker 1: change a little bit, and so I really am trying
Speaker 1: to do something different. I think I myself am the
Speaker 1: test case, like, you know, can I make it work?
Speaker 1: And hopefully can other people benefit from it where women
Speaker 1: can stay in the workforce and and and also feel
Speaker 1: like they can be there for the people who are
Speaker 1: important for her. And now a quick break. We're gonna
Speaker 1: go to the speed round now, so we'll ask some
Speaker 1: brief questions and you can give us quick answers. What
Speaker 1: book are you reading. It's called The Magician. It's amazing,
Speaker 1: so it's home. I'm not going to pronounce his last
Speaker 1: name correctly, it's a it's an Irish last name, toy Bin.
Speaker 1: But anyway, it's an amazing book. It's about Thomas Mann,
Speaker 1: the great author, and who was gay, and it's it's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's fiction, but it's it's uh, it's seen
Speaker 1: through his eyes growing up in in Germany, part of
Speaker 1: a Jewish, a really well established Jewish family, and what
Speaker 1: happened to him. And I should say like maybe, and
Speaker 1: fiction is totally my escape. I think it's like the
Speaker 1: one thing that really takes my mind off a lot
Speaker 1: of the things that are going on. Your mom's drink
Speaker 1: of choice was whiskey. What's your drink of choice? I
Speaker 1: love to drink um. But actually right now I've been
Speaker 1: drinking a lot of spin drift because I feel like
Speaker 1: I can't handle my alcohol the way I used to,
Speaker 1: So I am. I'm actually as soon as I put
Speaker 1: the kids to bed, I just like pop a spin
Speaker 1: drift grapefruit the grape fruit flavor, and I actually poured
Speaker 1: into a wine glass and it makes me feel like
Speaker 1: I'm having a cocktail. Who leaves you star struck? Gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go with dear drink. Quinn She's
Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of Lafayette One, which is just
Speaker 1: an incredible brand. And she is a founder CEO that
Speaker 1: I admire so much, and whenever I'm in her presence,
Speaker 1: I just feel like I want to like suck all
Speaker 1: of her wisdom. Um and anyway, so she she's wonderful.
Speaker 1: Where do you see yourself in ten years? Oh, I
Speaker 1: hope I'm CEO of I'm am or I love it
Speaker 1: And maybe that's why I'm on an entrepreneur like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't see myself like starting many many many businesses.
Speaker 1: Like I think like I found something I really like
Speaker 1: and I would love to keep doing it. Lou Burns
Speaker 1: has been listening to our entire interview. He comes in
Speaker 1: at the end with a male perspective. Take it away, Lou,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering about your husband and what he felt and
Speaker 1: thought the moment like maybe like during the trimester when
Speaker 1: you both realize that, like, oh ship, we're going to
Speaker 1: have three more mouths butts in this house. Did you
Speaker 1: guys have a conversation about that? What was that that moment? Like?
Speaker 1: So actually, so when when I think I share Tricia,
Speaker 1: our carrier said, like, let's transfer to embryos. And I
Speaker 1: remember Chris and I said, we were about to go
Speaker 1: visit his brother in Philadelphia. So we were sitting at
Speaker 1: the ANTRAC station, Philidate Helfia station, and this was right
Speaker 1: after my um the first transfer had failed, and so
Speaker 1: we were feeling really really low and we were about
Speaker 1: to go see family, and we were like, like, we
Speaker 1: didn't feel like we could be like chepy about it anyway.
Speaker 1: Chris was like, we should definitely only transfer one embryo
Speaker 1: because what happens if we end up with twins? And
Speaker 1: I was like, we would be so lucky if we
Speaker 1: ended up with twins, you know. And and we actually
Speaker 1: called the doctor to say like, is there a chance
Speaker 1: of twins? And the doctor view of the nurse relaid
Speaker 1: the message to us, don't worry, there's no chance of
Speaker 1: twins because the embryo qualities are so low. And then
Speaker 1: we ended up with twins with Tricia. And so he
Speaker 1: was like, I told you so. I think told you so.
Speaker 1: So I think he was like in in shock horror
Speaker 1: way longer than I was. I just moved to Cloud
Speaker 1: nine like stupor quickly, and he was like, what on
Speaker 1: earth just happened? But he got over it and actually
Speaker 1: he's like, it's easier and you could just do it
Speaker 1: all at once what and done? So yeah, he got
Speaker 1: there emotionally. It took a while though. Now when they
Speaker 1: started eating solid food, was everybody assigned the child? What
Speaker 1: was it like? So actually, I'll tell you somehow, eating
Speaker 1: I found easier because, um, you can just like you're
Speaker 1: feeding them with like a spoon, right, and so you're
Speaker 1: just going from one to you know, and you can
Speaker 1: like they're chewing while while the other one is getting fed,
Speaker 1: and it somehow works. What I actually found hardest was
Speaker 1: bottle feeding because it's like you have to hold up
Speaker 1: three bottles at the same time, Like, how on earth
Speaker 1: do you do it unless you have two people there
Speaker 1: at all times, which is not always a given. Um,
Speaker 1: And we ended up buying something that you definitely cannot
Speaker 1: find in America because I think every American mom or
Speaker 1: any American would find it so shameful. But you can.
Speaker 1: So we found it on a Chinese Amazon website and
Speaker 1: it's it's like like almost a necklace that you strap
Speaker 1: around your baby's neck and you can put the bottle
Speaker 1: in the necklace and so you can like literally you
Speaker 1: can it can be hands free and so literally we
Speaker 1: would just like put the necklace on all three babies
Speaker 1: and they would feed themselves, read about like any like
Speaker 1: mother motherhood and mothering site, and they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a really important time for you to bond
Speaker 1: with your baby, so like hold the bottle and look
Speaker 1: at the baby's eyes. And I was like, Nope, don't
Speaker 1: have time for that, Like put on your necklace, like
Speaker 1: it's time to eat. Amy. I loved Sarah. She's so fantastic.
Speaker 1: I feel like we'd be great friends with her. I
Speaker 1: don't know. She makes me want to start an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: support group and invite her to be the first member.
Speaker 1: She's incredible and you know, it's it's really interesting. One
Speaker 1: of the things I thought was most interesting in speaking
Speaker 1: to her was like you said, it's super clear she
Speaker 1: has this incredible work ethic right, and that she built
Speaker 1: this company out of an idea. She hired someone to
Speaker 1: find her co wonder to design the clothes she envisioned
Speaker 1: in her mind, and she has stuck with the growth
Speaker 1: for over a decade and like that is really hard
Speaker 1: with the startup. I mean when she said she was
Speaker 1: clear and tenure, she still wanted to be the CEO
Speaker 1: of and on the FLOORA. I was like, really, because
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can slow be the CEO
Speaker 1: of The Riveter, I might be dead. But but it's
Speaker 1: really like, she has this incredible work ethic, and it's
Speaker 1: interesting to see someone with that work ethic transition into
Speaker 1: motherhood and the way we think about work, you know,
Speaker 1: when we're in those early years of motherhood, when you're
Speaker 1: like all of us in your workaholics and what that means.
Speaker 1: And she was just really honest about it, and I
Speaker 1: thought it was really interesting. I think because I'm in
Speaker 1: the thick of your four as an entrepreneur, I just
Speaker 1: found her perspective so comforting and helpful and inspiring. I
Speaker 1: was so appreciative of how honest and unfiltered she was.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy.
Speaker 1: We would appreciate it if you leave her of you
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast, and of course connect with
Speaker 1: us on social media at What's Her Story podcast. What's
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Speaker 1: The Riveter at The Riveter Dot c O in Sam's company,
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Speaker 1: to our producer Stacy Parra and our male perspective, blue
Speaker 1: Burns