1
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,560
Speaker 1: Alzo Media.

2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to bear Offline. I'm your host at Zetron.

3
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 2: I need a saga. What's the saga? It's glycine, industrial

4
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,080
Speaker 2: food grade glycine and its associated memes. In the last

5
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 2: few weeks, TikTok and other social networks have being flooded

6
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 2: with memes like this.

7
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 3: Then she gave me some glycine and I was like,

8
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 3: this ain't no Donghua Geelong. If you call this industrial

9
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 3: strength glycine, then this glycining's gotta hit the gym. You

10
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying.

11
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 4: And this Are you tired of being cucked by inferior

12
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 4: industrial and food grade glycine suppliers who don't adhere to

13
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 4: FCC six hundred and forty, uspvp EP and JSFA production standards.

14
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 4: Fear not glycine girlies, edge yourself down to Donguar jin Long.

15
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 2: All inspired by an innocent promotional video created by doguar Jinlong,

16
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 2: a manufacturer of food grade glycine used to improve the

17
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 2: taste of things like soy sauce and juices, introducing Donghuar

18
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,399
Speaker 2: gene Long's food grade glison Unlock Donguar gene Longs food

19
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 2: grade Glison in twenty twenty four, based on my research

20
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 2: and talking to people smarter than me, donguar Jin Long

21
00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 2: and the wider Chinese society doesn't really seem to understand

22
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,039
Speaker 2: why this is happening, nor why it's funny, and it

23
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 2: appears to have taken root in a combination of harmless banter.

24
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 2: Treating an extremely specific industry and its byproduct is a

25
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 2: thing we discussed in our regular lives and semi ironic

26
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 2: support of Chinese industry just as the American government seeks

27
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 2: to ban TikTok.

28
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:47,040
Speaker 5: So I got.

29
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 2: Together with two people that have found themselves just a

30
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 2: little too deep in this story joining me today to

31
00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 2: talk about this extremely strange phenomenon is the writer of

32
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,560
Speaker 2: you may also like Louise Mattsakis and writes and researcher

33
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 2: toy On You Fang.

34
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for joining me, both of you.

35
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for having us.

36
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 6: It's great to be here.

37
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 2: So, Louise, you've been tracking Chinese factories for several years,

38
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 2: which is a great thing, and I love saying it.

39
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 2: First of all, why, but also what have you seen

40
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 2: from these factories on social media?

41
00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 7: So I would say around twenty twenty or twenty twenty one,

42
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,080
Speaker 7: I started noticing that Chinese factories were opening TikTok accounts

43
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 7: and posting there. I don't think it's unusual that they

44
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,799
Speaker 7: picked TikTok. You know, they were posting on Facebook, they

45
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,920
Speaker 7: had WhatsApp accounts. These are manufacturers that need to court

46
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 7: overseas customers, and it's perfectly normal for them to have

47
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 7: social media accounts. But I think what was happening is

48
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 7: that a lot of them were starting to work with

49
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 7: marketing agencies who were saying, hey, you know, it's not

50
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 7: a bad idea to post on this platform that's getting

51
00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 7: really popular.

52
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,040
Speaker 1: You know, we have our version here domes.

53
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 7: And they started posting these mesmerizing clips.

54
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:05,880
Speaker 6: Uh.

55
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,799
Speaker 7: One I think about a lot is uh it's gardening

56
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:10,880
Speaker 7: gloves being made.

57
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 1: So you see these.

58
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 7: Like fabric gardening gloves that are being you know, dipped

59
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 7: in liquefied rubber, so they get that rubber coating on

60
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 7: the tips of the fingers so you can you know,

61
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 7: dig in the dirt or whatever in your garden. They

62
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 7: reminded me, I don't know if you guys have ever

63
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 7: seen that show. I think it was called like how

64
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 7: It's Made. Uh, you know, it's a show on cable

65
00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,079
Speaker 7: TV probably you know, a decade, a decade and a

66
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 7: half ago. I think it's just sort of fascinating to

67
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 7: get a window into, you know, the world of manufacturing

68
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 7: which Western consumers are are so divorced from. So that's

69
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 7: kind of like the history of this trend on TikTok.

70
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 2: And how about doung wadjin lung itself, how did that manifest?

71
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 7: So what's happened recently is that these factories have seemingly

72
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,960
Speaker 7: started using what I think is probably some sort of

73
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,920
Speaker 7: AI software where they're translating a script and then doing

74
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 7: some sort of like text to speech.

75
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: So these videos sound really funny.

76
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 7: And don Quadjin Long is this company that makes high

77
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 7: quality grade glyscene, which is a type of nutritional additive,

78
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 7: And I think the name the videos they were posting,

79
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 7: which were sort of like these like graphic edited videos

80
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 7: of like drone footage of their factory, was just really

81
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 7: really funny to a lot of people. You know, it

82
00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 7: was sort of like, you know, high quality grade glyccene

83
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,680
Speaker 7: made sort of nothing to most people in the West,

84
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 7: So I think it was just it was just sort

85
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 7: of this funny moment, and I think It also ties

86
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,400
Speaker 7: into this existing trend on TikTok where a lot of

87
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,160
Speaker 7: younger users make fun of the concerns in Washington about

88
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 7: the app being Chinese owned. You know, I've seen people

89
00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 7: like joke about praying Tashi Jimpang or you know, like

90
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,040
Speaker 7: rubbing statues of Mao and there.

91
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 1: It's just a joke. But I think that.

92
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,359
Speaker 7: It sort of ties into that as well, like this

93
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 7: idea of it being this Chinese platform and sort of

94
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,839
Speaker 7: like you know, Western users, you're joking on that and

95
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 7: joking about sort of the hysteria over it in Washington.

96
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,239
Speaker 2: And Janie, you were talking to me earlier about how

97
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 2: it was like sixty percent of glycine that comes out

98
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: of China is don't wadging lung. Is that What is

99
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 2: the scale of this company?

100
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:30,440
Speaker 5: What is this thing?

101
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 6: Yeah? Sure, so actually I think the real scale is

102
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 6: smaller in that globally, glycin production is about I think

103
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 6: eight hundred thousand tons per year and don'hagil makes about

104
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,720
Speaker 6: one hundred and twenty thousand tons, so it's not that much.

105
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,440
Speaker 6: But it specializes in sort of industrial grade, right, so

106
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 6: it's not the normal like food additives that we see

107
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 6: in daily life, but sort of the kind of glycine

108
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 6: now you use in herbicide and other forms of sort

109
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,680
Speaker 6: of more industrial production and less consumer So yeah, the

110
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,480
Speaker 6: skill is pretty big. China now produces about half of

111
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 6: global glycines in total, and you know, previously that was

112
00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,839
Speaker 6: an American and European production in the nineties, but starting

113
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 6: the early two thousands there was more Asia production. So

114
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 6: dohajo own is based in Covid Province, which is right

115
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 6: outside of Beijing. That's where a lot of today's industrial grade,

116
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 6: high quality glycine comes from.

117
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,840
Speaker 2: So does this mean do you think any of this

118
00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 2: is connected to the Chinese government? I don't mean that

119
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 2: in a paranoid way. Is any of this deliberate? I

120
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:41,839
Speaker 2: think is the question for both you.

121
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would say no in a sense that it

122
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 6: seems just like privately owned companies. I checked the corporate records.

123
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 6: I didn't go that deep, but you know, it is

124
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,559
Speaker 6: a private company that came out of the Chinese eighties

125
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 6: and nineties and seems to have done pretty well. And

126
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,719
Speaker 6: if you look at these videos on TikTok, there's usually

127
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 6: a version on we Chat or other Chinese platforms that's

128
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 6: kind of similar. In Chinese as opposed to English. So

129
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 6: I imagine these videos were originally made for people to share

130
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 6: on Chinese social media platforms with business partners, so that

131
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,119
Speaker 6: they can advertise their business to to like business people

132
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 6: in China who are a lot more interested in using

133
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 6: short video apps than I think they are American counterparts.

134
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,679
Speaker 6: So I think there's a direct translation of that intention

135
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 6: into the American market, which I don't know if it's

136
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 6: working as intended.

137
00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

138
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 2: Is it very common for Chinese businesses to actually use

139
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: this method though, even these industrial ones, Yeah, I think so.

140
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,880
Speaker 6: I think it's there is a TikTok you equivalent that's

141
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,679
Speaker 6: built inside we Chat as well. And I think because

142
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 6: we Chat is a multi purpose app where you use

143
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 6: it both if you're a person who's just very online

144
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,560
Speaker 6: or a person who actually runs your business. So the

145
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 6: by being on that short video platform that Pinson has

146
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 6: we Chat, you can very easily share these videos with

147
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 6: other people for business or entertainment purposes.

148
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 7: I like, I think what's happening here is you're seeing

149
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 7: sort of TikTok's algorithm collide with this content that otherwise,

150
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 7: you know, American members would never see.

151
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 1: When I looked into it.

152
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,439
Speaker 7: I saw that don Jua Geelong also had a Facebook

153
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 7: account where they actually had more followers at the time.

154
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: Than they did on TikTok.

155
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 7: But the thing is, with a platform like Facebook or Instagram,

156
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,079
Speaker 7: these people don't know what glycceine is, let alone, are

157
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,239
Speaker 7: they like searching for a manufacturer in China that specifically

158
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 7: produces it, right, But with TikTok, the way that the

159
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 7: platform works is that you sort of get fed this

160
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,200
Speaker 7: content and you decide whether you like it or not

161
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,120
Speaker 7: by you know, paying attention, commenting, liking, sharing, and over time,

162
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 7: the algorithm will feed you more of it. Right, we

163
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,520
Speaker 7: all know this, and you know, the reality is that

164
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,040
Speaker 7: you don't know that you might think glycine is funny.

165
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,319
Speaker 7: You don't know that it might be interesting to see

166
00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 7: how gardening gloves are made or whatever. So I think

167
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 7: this is just an instance where the design of the

168
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 7: platform meant that this sort of strange thing started bubbling up.

169
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,160
Speaker 7: Of course you see this on Twitter, on YouTube, on

170
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 7: other platforms, but I think in this case it sort of,

171
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 7: you know, happened to happen on TikTok, And I think

172
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,640
Speaker 7: it would be a mistake to say it's just because

173
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,000
Speaker 7: the platform is Chinese owned, that these Chinese factories are

174
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 7: doing well there, although I will say I think maybe

175
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 7: some of these marketing agencies and these bigger factories that

176
00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 7: are doing this themselves maybe have more familiarity with TikTok

177
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,960
Speaker 7: because of Doyene, which is the local version also owned.

178
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: By by Dance.

179
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 7: But I also think what's happening here is that you're

180
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 7: seeing Americans, you know, people in Europe connect to this stuff,

181
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,840
Speaker 7: particularly because it portrays sort of like a more camp,

182
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 7: sort of like sillier side of China. You know, a

183
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 7: lot of these factories are really old school. They're maybe

184
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 7: owned by guys who I don't know about this case

185
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 7: in particular, but when I've talked to these factories, they're

186
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,960
Speaker 7: often owned by like, you know, old school guys who

187
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,600
Speaker 7: are sort of products of the cultural revolution, who you know,

188
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 7: chain smoke cigarettes and you know, drink tea all day long.

189
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,600
Speaker 1: But that's not really reflective of.

190
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,839
Speaker 7: Social media in China. You know, it's very sophisticated. There's

191
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,320
Speaker 7: just exactly the same kinds of you know, hawk girl influencers,

192
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,960
Speaker 7: you know, people with hot takes on those local platforms.

193
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,319
Speaker 7: But I think it's not a coincidence that what's resonating

194
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 7: is more of sort of that like old school manufacturing

195
00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 7: maybe like more foreign vibe and like you know, a

196
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,360
Speaker 7: typical you know, Chinese fashion influencer who also has no

197
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 7: reason to post on a foreign platform, right, whereas like

198
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 7: these factories are actually looking for customers overseas, and I

199
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 7: wouldn't be too surprised if maybe there is somebody out

200
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,720
Speaker 7: there who was looking for a glycine manufacturer.

201
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 1: And you know, now they've found one.

202
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tian, you have you found anything of other companies

203
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,359
Speaker 2: trying to do this more deliberately?

204
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 5: Have you seen anything that suggests that I'm.

205
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 6: Not sure about on TikTok per se because I don't

206
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,679
Speaker 6: follow that much glycy and content on TikTok, but I

207
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 6: makes one of the platform. Oh you know, I just

208
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 6: got started. But I think on Chinese platforms it's a

209
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 6: lot more common to see the sort of stuff as

210
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,840
Speaker 6: in I do think that when I encountered this video

211
00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 6: in Chinese, I was like, oh, this makes so much

212
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 6: more sense because people just post. There's I think there's

213
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,839
Speaker 6: a culture of posting a short like two three minute

214
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,720
Speaker 6: ad of their company or their factory to to show

215
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 6: sort of the working conditions of of of of of workers,

216
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,840
Speaker 6: or or the kind of product products that they produce.

217
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 6: Just a very popular thing on Chinese social media, even

218
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 6: though it sort of caters to a particular audience, that is,

219
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 6: their potential customers. But at the same time, I think

220
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,280
Speaker 6: there is an increased interest interest, as Louise said about

221
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 6: Chinese factory like videos on Western platforms. The one guy

222
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 6: I've been recently following is a Tony from Elsie's Sign

223
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 6: and he is a guy who works at a uh

224
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 6: I think uh electronic sign company like lights and billboards,

225
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,839
Speaker 6: and he does weird English accents.

226
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 5: Yeah his I now know who you mean.

227
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,840
Speaker 2: He has a peculiar accent And I said, this is

228
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,080
Speaker 2: someone with a peculiar accent.

229
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, he does also different sources of accents, and people

230
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 6: just loved him, and I imagine it was the same intention,

231
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,000
Speaker 6: but he was doing more successfully, you know, than like

232
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 6: glycine producers, mostly because I think more people are interested

233
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 6: in buying billboards and posters and like Sein.

234
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,680
Speaker 2: Why do you think that it's so common in China

235
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 2: to post like for these videos to exist, Because I

236
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,319
Speaker 2: can't think of an American equivalent of this.

237
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 5: I guess you get people who like post like tract to.

238
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,840
Speaker 2: Videos and such, and that is that niche thing. But

239
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,840
Speaker 2: almost this industrial pride doesn't seem to exist over here.

240
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do think that's right. I think the difference

241
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,040
Speaker 6: is the completeness of supply chain in China, where your

242
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 6: target customer is somebody who's above you in your supply

243
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 6: chain or below you in your supply chain. Uh, And

244
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 6: you have so many companies, so many factories, and so

245
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 6: many workshops that you know, are in the business of

246
00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 6: supplying to you know, herbicide like you know, a manufacturing

247
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 6: So in that sense, you do have a much bigger

248
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:10,200
Speaker 6: intended audience if you're a manufacturer on one specific part

249
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 6: of this process. So you know, obviously China has a

250
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,880
Speaker 6: much larger industrial base, much larger manufacturing capacity, and a

251
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 6: lot more small businesses that are like dohaj loan trying

252
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 6: to buy products from other dohag loans. So in that

253
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 6: sense it makes a lot of sense.

254
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 7: I think another thing too, is that there's just sort

255
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 7: of a culture of documenting all aspects of sort of

256
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 7: what's going on in the factory via video.

257
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:37,480
Speaker 1: You know.

258
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 7: A good example is, uh, it's very common in China

259
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 7: for recruiters or for you know, people who work at

260
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 7: these factories to sort of take videos of like what

261
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 7: does the dorm look like? You know, what is the cafeteria, like,

262
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,040
Speaker 7: what is daily life like if you work at these factories,

263
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 7: and those videos are often designed to you know, recruit

264
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 7: more people to work there.

265
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: But we've seen in the US that if you.

266
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,680
Speaker 7: You record your life at Amazon or your life in

267
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,280
Speaker 7: a factory, you're probably going to get fired. And that's

268
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 7: not to say that, you know, if you filmed stuff

269
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 7: that was you know, painted painted your employer in a

270
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 7: bad light, that you wouldn't be you know, punished for that.

271
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 1: In China, of course you would be.

272
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 7: But I think there's a sort of more of a

273
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,040
Speaker 7: culture of documenting all of this. And I think it's

274
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 7: also a result of people being much closer to manufacturing

275
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 7: and having a much more deep understanding of how these

276
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,240
Speaker 7: supply chains work. You know, everybody in China knows somebody

277
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 7: who's involved in manufacturing in some capacity, unless, like I

278
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 7: don't know, you're the most elite person in Beijing who

279
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 7: you know only knows other intellectuals or something. You know,

280
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 7: there's somebody in your family, a relative, a friend who

281
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 7: was involved in this world, and so it's much more normalized,

282
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 7: I think, whereas for Americans it's like we had a

283
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 7: whole TV show fifteen years ago or something about how

284
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 7: stuff was made because you know, it was interesting to

285
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 7: people because we didn't know because that was already an

286
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 7: industry that was being offshore.

287
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: And this is not necessarily saying this kind of culture

288
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 2: is good. But at the same time, it does feel

289
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: like there's almost more connection to more blue collar labor there,

290
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 2: and there's not so much in an obsession with Maybe

291
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 2: I'm wrong, please correct me, I'm wrong, but far less

292
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,280
Speaker 2: of an attempt to escape those trappings. I feel like

293
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,640
Speaker 2: America has a degree of shame for factory work while

294
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,600
Speaker 2: also kind of lionizing the working class. And it's it's weird.

295
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 2: It's weird watching this happen, and it's weird watching Americans

296
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 2: kind of celebrate the glysiine lords, even ironically, it's been

297
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 2: peculiar to watch.

298
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 7: I think, actually what you're seeing in China now is

299
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 7: exactly what you just described having happened in the US,

300
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 7: which is that there's way more college graduates now who

301
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 7: don't want to have sort of the same factory jobs

302
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 7: as their parents. I think that this work is really difficult.

303
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 7: It often doesn't pay super well. And now it's a

304
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 7: terrible book.

305
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're seeing.

306
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 7: For sure, but you're seeing I think, like this manufacturing

307
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 7: labor pool in China starting to age, right, Like, younger

308
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 7: workers don't want to do this anymore. And you know,

309
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 7: China has said like, oh yeah, we're having you know,

310
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 7: problems sort of recruiting people to go to these factory jobs.

311
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's also because.

312
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 7: You often have to live there, which is a really

313
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,119
Speaker 7: big difference, right, Like you know, no one lives on

314
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:30,919
Speaker 7: site at Amazon.

315
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: I hope, like please if you know about that, like

316
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: get in touch.

317
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,720
Speaker 7: But it's a different you know, it's an all encompassing

318
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 7: lifestyle where you're you're living on the campus, you're working

319
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 7: you know, six days a week, potentially long hours, and understandably,

320
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 7: you know, college graduates don't really want to do that.

321
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 7: So I think you're right that historically sort of, you know,

322
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 7: manufacturing was a huge way that China you know, lifted

323
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 7: a lot of people out of poverty and sort of

324
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,199
Speaker 7: you know, increase its GDP very rapidly. But at the

325
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,359
Speaker 7: same time you're seeing exactly what you described in the

326
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,359
Speaker 7: US of this is not something that a lot of

327
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 7: young people are excited about doing, but it's still happening on.

328
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 1: A much bigger scale there than it is here anymore.

329
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 6: I do think the long hours that people spend in

330
00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,679
Speaker 6: these factories is very important in a sense that it

331
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 6: sort of resembles this socialist legacy where even though you

332
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 6: know most of these companies are privately owned these days,

333
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 6: you know, in these state owned enterprises and state owned factories,

334
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,239
Speaker 6: in the seventies and eighties, you did live with your

335
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 6: co workers, you had your own houses, you would do

336
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,680
Speaker 6: cafeterias with your co workers. So there was an assumption

337
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 6: of some sort of social cohesion with your workplace outside

338
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 6: of work itself. And this is why we're seeing a

339
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 6: lot of people posting about their you know, lives in factories,

340
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 6: also in part because they have probably very little life

341
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 6: outside of the work workplace, which could be a terrible

342
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 6: thing in many cases because of the long working hours

343
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 6: these days. So I do think that culture is still

344
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 6: embedded in some some types of factory work in China.

345
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's the other thing is as well, is

346
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,000
Speaker 2: that it feels like some of this is being used

347
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 2: to kind of cover up the grosser side, things like

348
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 2: that they live there and that the hours are horrifying.

349
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,159
Speaker 2: But it's it's in why is it? Why is it

350
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 2: you think that they're able to show so much of

351
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 2: the living conditions without actually coming up against the fact

352
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: that you live at your job. How do like they're

353
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,959
Speaker 2: able to just skirt the bad parts? I guess, And

354
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 2: it almost feels like this sole dong wodgin lung thing

355
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 2: is kind of covering up parts of that, romanticizing this

356
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 2: industry that is quite horrible.

357
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 7: I do think it is worth sort of emphasizing the

358
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 7: fact that these are corporate accounts, right, Like these are

359
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 7: not workers sharing their own experiences. These are you know,

360
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 7: companies that are are able to jump to the Great

361
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 7: Firewall and are able to sort of post on foreign

362
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 7: social media platforms because they are doing it in the

363
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 7: name of like, you know, getting customers, communicating with their customers,

364
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 7: advertising their business, whereas it would be riskier, right for

365
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 7: a you know, individual factory worker to actually post sort

366
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 7: of you know, authentic content about their job and about

367
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 7: their everyday experiences.

368
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 1: You do see some of that, but it's it's.

369
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 7: Much more rare, and I often find that it's people

370
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 7: who are in like a sales job and have a

371
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 7: little bit more cover or you know, a little bit

372
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,719
Speaker 7: more familiarity with foreign platforms, maybe speak better English.

373
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that's a good point.

374
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 7: It's like, you know, I do also want to shy

375
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 7: away though, from the idea that every factory job in

376
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,239
Speaker 7: China is horrible and that it's uniquely different from you know,

377
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 7: blue collar labor in other parts of the world, because

378
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 7: I guess I cover you fashion a lot, I cover

379
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 7: the e commerce industry, and time and time again, I

380
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 7: hear people say, oh, well, I feel better about this

381
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 7: sweater or whatever because it was made in America, And

382
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh cool, So you mean the sweatshops here

383
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 7: in Los Angeles that are like ten miles away.

384
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that's any better.

385
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 5: Right then, that's the next episode of the show.

386
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: Literally, that very subject, because you've got I think that

387
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 2: some of that as well is she In and Timu

388
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 2: and these companies that absolutely do and have grown off

389
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: of the international terrorists, but also the kind of labor

390
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: of rights violations, and I know China has tried to

391
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: clean up its act here it's just tried, and I

392
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 2: mean tried is something that's mitigated through some degree of

393
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: propagandas we know, but it's I think your point is

394
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 2: salient where it's not so much that China's doing perfect work,

395
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: but that America absolutely isn't and the conditions for blue

396
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: collar workers everywhere are pretty goddamn awful.

397
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think what I always try and say

398
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 7: in these conversations is to like center it more on

399
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 7: the agency of these workers, because I think oftentimes, you know,

400
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 7: people say, oh, I feel so bad about like, you know,

401
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 7: the stuff I bought on she and like, you know,

402
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 7: those poor people who are being treated horribly. But that

403
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 7: kind of becomes an abstraction and it's like, Okay, those

404
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 7: people are just like an object of my guilt, right

405
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 7: instead of like actual people with complicated lives, you know,

406
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 7: some of whom chose these jobs, you know, perhaps because

407
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 7: they needed the money.

408
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: But but I also push back a little bit on

409
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: that or didn't have a choice, yeah, or didn't have

410
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 2: a choice.

411
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 5: Yeah.

412
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, But I think, like, you know, for example, if

413
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 7: you want to talk about like you know, complicated embroidery

414
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 7: or like certain types of like intricate garment work, right, Like,

415
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 7: that's a skill, and that's a skill that like you know,

416
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 7: companies can't just like get away with by like hiring

417
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 7: nine year olds to do right. Like, those are people

418
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 7: who you know, have dignity in their work, and I

419
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 7: think like it's important, I guess, just to like center

420
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 7: their humanity and stead of just being like all.

421
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: Those people who are treated horribly.

422
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, and they're not just mindless drugs.

423
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 6: I think there's I mean, the state of the working

424
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 6: conditions depends on extremely highly on the industry, depends on

425
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 6: the specific employer. I think a lot of things are changing,

426
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 6: and I think platforms like TikTok actually allows us to

427
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 6: see more people posting from their own lives and not

428
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 6: you know, these lists corporate portrayals of what the working

429
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 6: conditions actually are.

430
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: Are we seeing more of that out of China? Is

431
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: there a growth of that or is the has the

432
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: government moved against that because you see a decent amount

433
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: of it in America but over there, I don't know

434
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: if that's the case.

435
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 6: I think on the Chinese platforms this is probably true.

436
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 6: So you know, like we know, like go in, which

437
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 6: is the TikTok the local version of TikTok. They're although

438
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 6: us other platforms like quite show, which target is much

439
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 6: more working class audiences, And on these platforms you basically

440
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 6: see people posting about their daily lives and the more

441
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 6: sort of oh this is what I uh, this is

442
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 6: what I did today. Right, It's completely innocuous. It's it's people. Uh,

443
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 6: there's no particular intention behind what they're doing. They're just like, oh,

444
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 6: this is this is what I ate, and this is

445
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 6: this is uh, this is where I went after work today.

446
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 6: So I think there is more insight into people's daily

447
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 6: lives from this new culture of like posting and sharing

448
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 6: on the internet that is increasingly taking the form.

449
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 5: Of like video.

450
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 6: You know, there there there is a reckoning I think

451
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 6: in the urban middle class that's looking at the sort

452
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 6: of content and saying, oh, okay, this is where this

453
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 6: is how people in factories live and this is how

454
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 6: they work.

455
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 5: Uh.

456
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 6: Even within China, I think that recognition is increasingly relevant.

457
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 5: Is there as agressive?

458
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: So living in America growing up in England not really

459
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: had much exposure to China at all personally, is I

460
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: hear a lot of people saying, oh, the censorship there

461
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: is quite aggressive, and the government will move against you

462
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: for posting the wrong thing.

463
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 5: How much truth lies in.

464
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 6: That, that's a tough one.

465
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: I think there there, of course is a lot of

466
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: truth in it.

467
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 7: I think it's completely fair to say that it's a

468
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 7: you know, much more censored internet ecosystem than perhaps anywhere

469
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 7: else in the world. But I think that people assume

470
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 7: that if you go on a Chinese social media app,

471
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 7: it's just everybody praising chijin paying and then like maybe

472
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 7: some like you know, benign fashion influencers. But I think

473
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 7: it's important to emphasize that it's a very colorful, unwieldy internet,

474
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 7: you know, of you know, one point four billion people,

475
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 7: just like anywhere else. And while the government is able

476
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 7: to sort of crack down much more quickly, and of course,

477
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 7: you know, a lot more content is censored, there's still

478
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 7: plenty of CD corners. There's still plenty of you know,

479
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 7: shocking or strange or weird uh stuff all over the

480
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 7: Chinese internet, and and a lot of these uh you know,

481
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 7: as Tanya was saying, these sort of like factory videos

482
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 7: are really common, or these videos of like sort of

483
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 7: everyday workers talking about their life. There's actually been a

484
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 7: trend of like farm workers, and uh, it's funny because

485
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 7: some of them have gotten in trouble for basically like

486
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 7: not actually being in farmers and just sort of doing

487
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 7: this like glamorization of like the simple life. And they're

488
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 7: often selling like fruits and vegetables. So it's like, oh,

489
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 7: look at my beautiful you know, Lee Chee farm or whatever,

490
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 7: and I live this idyllic life here, and it's like,

491
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 7: that's not where the leeches are actually coming from, Like

492
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 7: that beautiful girl and that sun dress is not actually

493
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 7: the person producing essentially, So you know, and I think

494
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 7: we've seen that in the US too, right, with sort

495
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 7: of like people sort of glamorizing a simpler way of

496
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 7: being or or a sort of lifestyle that maybe is

497
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 7: appealing in some ways to.

498
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: The middle class. Yeah, cottage core, right exactly.

499
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 7: That's it's it's sort of the Chinese equivalent of the

500
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 7: cottage core trend in a lot of ways. But I

501
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 7: do think, you know, going back to your question about

502
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 7: is it easier to know more now about how your

503
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 7: stuff is manufactured?

504
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: Probably not.

505
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 7: I think you can sort of get a glimpse of

506
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 7: it through something like this glycine trend or whatever. But

507
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 7: it's definitely harder to get on the ground in China.

508
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 7: It's harder for companies to sort of do due diligence

509
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 7: than it was a few years ago. It's more difficult

510
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 7: to sort of audit your supply chain, figure out exactly

511
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 7: you know, who is the person or the company at

512
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 7: every step, you know, before you get that T shirt

513
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 7: from Timu. But I think what this trend shows is

514
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 7: that people want to know, right like, people want this information,

515
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 7: They want to have a better understanding. I don't think people. Yeah,

516
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 7: of course, there's there's tons of people who just don't care.

517
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 7: But I think that more can consumers and companies expect

518
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 7: do want a better sense of where the stuff they

519
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 7: buy comes from.

520
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you, I think a good point to start

521
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 2: wrapping up on as well. Was you a pit to

522
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: have found an account for a dildo factory?

523
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for asking. I I did.

524
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 7: It's it's beautiful. Uh, yeah, it's it's one of these accounts.

525
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 7: It's similar to sort of the glycine trend. A reader

526
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 7: my newsletter pointed it out to me on Twitter x

527
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 7: whatever you want to call it. And they make a

528
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 7: number of stuff they seem to make Basically these machines

529
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 7: that like extrude the like rubbery silicon that sex dolls

530
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 7: and dildos are made out of. So it's like this

531
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 7: giant long machine which you know, edit this out if

532
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 7: I can't say this, but they call it a pussy

533
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 7: ass production machine.

534
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: And so it's like this all they uh, you know, seeing.

535
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 7: The silicon and then you put it in these you know,

536
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 7: it comes out hot, and then you put it in

537
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 7: these giant molds and so it's amazing this factory sort

538
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 7: of like pans over to this you know, giant warehouse

539
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 7: of of these button molds essentially where the silicone is setting.

540
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 7: And uh, they do not seem to understand how funny this.

541
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 5: Is communicating with people about it. What is the scuttle

542
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 5: butt there? Like, what is the communication like.

543
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 7: It's just like it's again it's sort of this like

544
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 7: speech to text or text to speech software where it's

545
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 7: like clearly like a robot saying pussy ass production machine.

546
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 7: And they're sort of up the supply chain, right, so

547
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 7: they're not even Yeah, it would be like a little

548
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 7: bit more sort of not as funny or not as

549
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 7: interesting if they were actually selling the sex all. But

550
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 7: they're selling like these seven thousand dollars extruders that so

551
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 7: you can make your own at.

552
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: Home as well.

553
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think you.

554
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

555
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 7: Also the minimum order is too, so you know, you

556
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 7: really have to want to commit to this, but that's

557
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 7: what they're selling. Yeah, and I think it's a you know,

558
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 7: perfect encapsulation of sort of like how bizarre and silly

559
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 7: this whole factory trend is.

560
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: And I think to wrap us up here, Louise, have

561
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: you seen don wagin Long or indeed the posios machine

562
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: vendor communicate with anyone?

563
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 5: Are they actually involved in this at all?

564
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 7: So it was interesting because they started going super viral

565
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 7: during the tomb sweeping holiday in China, which is I

566
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 7: think tian you can correct me. I think it's like

567
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 7: a three or four day long holiday where you probably

568
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 7: explained Tianya what that is.

569
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 6: It's a it's a traditional holiday for you to basically

570
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 6: like go commemorate their debt relatives. But you know it's

571
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 6: also a several day long holiday that people would just

572
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 6: go travel and do stuff. Yeah.

573
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 7: I think it's like Memorial Day weekend, Labor Day weekend

574
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 7: kind of holiday. So yeah, you know, it's the equivalent

575
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 7: of sort of like going super viral, like around a

576
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 7: holiday that everyone was supposed to log off, and probably

577
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 7: I would say that these people like are not actually

578
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 7: looking at TikTok that often, right, because this is not

579
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 7: where they're getting like their updates from their family and

580
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 7: friends usually. But they did seem to come back online,

581
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 7: and they commented on a few videos, one from this

582
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 7: user who made a number of viral videos called microplastic Cat.

583
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 7: So I know they commented on one of microplastic cats

584
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 7: meme videos, and I think they just said something sort

585
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 7: of generic. I get the sense that they're perhaps excited,

586
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 7: and probably whoever is doing this is like maybe I

587
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 7: can get a raise out of this. But I don't

588
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 7: get the sense that they fully understand why this is happening,

589
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 7: or you know, what the meaning is, or who all

590
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 7: these people are posting like funny songs and like joking

591
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 7: about like licene outfits or whatever.

592
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: I don't get the sense that they get it.

593
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 7: And I think there's still sort of like you know,

594
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 7: a language and cultural barrier here.

595
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: But I think they like it. I think they're probably happy.

596
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 7: I think the social media manager is uh, you know,

597
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 7: probably going to do well, and their boss is happy

598
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 7: with them.

599
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: I think the funniest outcome from this might be that

600
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: they suddenly try and do they try and like join

601
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: the trend and stop trying to do irony. That would

602
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: make me very happy to see them try and probably fail.

603
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: But what what's actually worrying me as well is that

604
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: you're going to see American companies try and copy this,

605
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: and it's going to be very cringey.

606
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 6: I think it'll be significantly less funny because they're doing

607
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 6: it ironically, whereas the chie companies are doing it with.

608
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 7: I don't think American companies will do it because like

609
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 7: the number one thing American companies like do not want

610
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 7: right now is to be at all associated with China

611
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 7: in any way.

612
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: That's true, So I don't think that they will do it.

613
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 7: And I think that this level of like abstract ironic

614
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 7: meme is probably going to like you know, escape the

615
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,719
Speaker 7: Chinese factories themselves.

616
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: But that would be really funny.

617
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 7: I would like to see you know, a single one

618
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 7: of them just like ask their teenage kids or whatever,

619
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 7: like what's going on here, because I do think you

620
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 7: know a lot of Chinese teenagers would be like, oh yeah,

621
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 7: this is like a stupid meme you know, and be

622
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 7: able to sort of help them navigate what's going on.

623
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 7: But for some reason that just like hasn't happened yet.

624
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 6: It's also it's also you see these reports of dohago

625
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 6: and being mentioned in Chinese news, and people are like,

626
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 6: why is this funny? I don't get it.

627
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, actually that's the news covenant. Like I was like,

628
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 5: how is the reaction from the news of it?

629
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 6: Just like I've seen some stories about oh, dohago, this

630
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 6: should drawn like seem product a producer is now famous

631
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 6: on TikTok in the US, and and like nobody seems

632
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 6: to understand why it's funny. Ah, and like something is

633
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 6: lost in translation.

634
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, in my mind, the dogwar gin lung chemical meme

635
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 8: is harmless in anyone feeling sinophobic, indigestion, or fears around

636
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 8: Chinese propaganda needs to either touch grass or reconsider their biases. Yeah.

637
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: I kind of worry about stuff like this being baselessly

638
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: used as some kind of proof that China is brainwashing

639
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: young people into celebrating their industrial culture, despite the fact

640
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: that this is far more an example of great comedy

641
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: being formed in real time, something that's created as a

642
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: result of cultural exploration. And curiosity. We should celebrate this

643
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: kind of thing. It's fun that people are seeing different

644
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: things and making jokes. As a result, comedy on the

645
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: Internet has become rather flat, boring and frankly falsified. If

646
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 2: you've seen the Reddit beans boulders Gate meme going around

647
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: at the moment. It's fun to watch people having fun.

648
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: It's fun to watch them do something at a time

649
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: when every discussion of China is extremely serious and upsetting

650
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 2: and frankly based on a level of xenophobia that's deeply worrying. Nevertheless,

651
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed talking about this, and I'd like to

652
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: thank Louise and Tian you for joining me today and

653
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: credit for the videos plays that at the beginning goes

654
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: to Cities by Diana and Real Dan Yang, who are

655
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: both on Instagram on both hilarious.

656
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 5: Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

657
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

658
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

659
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, m A. T.

660
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: Tso w Ski dot com. You can email me at

661
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: easy at Better offline dot com, or check out Better

662
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: Offline dot.

663
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 5: Com to find my newsletter and more links to this podcast.

664
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for listening.

665
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For

666
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: more from cool Zone

667
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 5: Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check

668
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 5: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

669
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 5: you get your podcasts.