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Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not Santa, it's Nancy Grace. Are you

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Speaker 1: trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or

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Speaker 1: an expecting parent, Please do not give them another onesie.

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Speaker 1: Don't do it, and not another plastic toy that's going

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Speaker 1: to end up in the trash being or the garage

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Speaker 1: or said to goodwill this holiday season. Give them something

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Speaker 1: that really matters, and what matters more than protecting their child.

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Speaker 1: I sat down with the smartest people in the world

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Speaker 1: that I know when it comes to child safety, finding

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Speaker 1: missing children and fighting back against predators, and what I

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Speaker 1: learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important.

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Speaker 1: I want you to have it. I want them as

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Speaker 1: parents to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com

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Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you

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Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child.

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Speaker 1: Because I have done it myself based on what they

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Speaker 1: have told me. Give that as a gift, not another onesie.

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Speaker 1: Please find out how to protect your child out and

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Speaker 1: about at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store,

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Speaker 1: in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in

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Speaker 1: your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters nanny's daycare,

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Speaker 1: even protection online. It's the very best gift you can

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Speaker 1: give any parent. Go to crimestops here dot com and

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Speaker 1: join the Justice Nation crime stops here dot com. God

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Speaker 1: willing Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Donna Ruly Burney has

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Speaker 1: her hands full as she walks five of her grandkids

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Speaker 1: to the pool. She said she can't imagine forgetting a

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Speaker 1: child in a vehicle under any circumstance. You remember you

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Speaker 1: brought him out the house, so you remember to take

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Speaker 1: on with you. I don't see no excuse for it.

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Speaker 1: We met the family just steps from the parking lot

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Speaker 1: on West fourth Street and william Sport, where police say

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Speaker 1: four year old Samriam Motika lost her life after being

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Speaker 1: left in a hot car when claims she forgot to

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Speaker 1: drop the girl a daycare before heading to work. On Friday,

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Speaker 1: a caregiver, a thirty year old woman, leaves her boyfriend's

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Speaker 1: four year old little girl in a sweltering suv over

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Speaker 1: six hours on a ninety seven degree day outside. We

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Speaker 1: are learning the thirty year old girlfriend has just been

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Speaker 1: fined twenty five dollars no jail time twenty five ours

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Speaker 1: and enjoining me right now as a special guest. It

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Speaker 1: is the girlfriend's father. Vic Bourges, father of Brittany renee Bourgess,

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Speaker 1: is with us. Mister Bourges, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: being with us. I know this was all a huge

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Speaker 1: shock to you. Tell me what happened the day it

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Speaker 1: was so hot outside and the top was left in

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Speaker 1: the car. Yeah, that's about exactly what happened. You have

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Speaker 1: to look at the science behind this, because stated in

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Speaker 1: that framework, most people are going to say that there's

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Speaker 1: no excuse. I mean, Nancy yourself, could you imagine leaving

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Speaker 1: a child in a hot, slaughtering car a baby? Could

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Speaker 1: you imagine doing at yourself? No, I could not imagine it.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and neither could she. It's something that people

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Speaker 1: don't understand, people don't plan for, and it happens in

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Speaker 1: our country on an average of thirty eight times every year.

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Speaker 1: There's I mean, since the late nineties when they started

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Speaker 1: to make it a law to put car seats in

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Speaker 1: the back seat because children were being injured and there

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Speaker 1: were fatalities from airbags. In late nineties, they started to

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Speaker 1: require that the car seats go in the back seat,

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Speaker 1: and this phenomena of this forgotten baby syndrome started to occur,

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Speaker 1: the deaths and the fatality. Well, I was trying to

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Speaker 1: direct you to the day that Samaria died in the suv.

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Speaker 1: What happened that day? Whitney drove to work and lost

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Speaker 1: awareness that Samaria was in the vehicle. Okay, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean? Lost awareness the child was in the vehicle.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like she passed out. It's I mean, you

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Speaker 1: really to put it. To understand it, you have to

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Speaker 1: read and do a little research like we had to

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Speaker 1: to understand it, because, just like yourself and other people

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Speaker 1: in the panel, nobody understands it. You even said you

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Speaker 1: couldn't imagine doing it, but yet it happened. No, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: no no. I have researched it, and I have studied

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Speaker 1: it very carefully in many criminal cases, many many criminal cases.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that people say it is a phenomena

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Speaker 1: that is some type of physiological response. But what I'm

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Speaker 1: asking you is, in your life, what happened the day

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Speaker 1: Samaria died in a sweltering suv. In my life, that day,

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Speaker 1: I was at a charity event, ironically, for a child

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Speaker 1: with a heart condition that we helped sponsor. That's what

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Speaker 1: I was doing that day until later that afternoon when

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Speaker 1: I got in the office around two thirty three o'clock,

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Speaker 1: when Smario was discovered in the vehicle. Okay, you're at

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Speaker 1: your office, and what happens. As soon as Brittany left

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Speaker 1: and went out to the vehicle, she opened the door

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Speaker 1: of her vehicle and saw somebody. She didn't know who

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Speaker 1: it was. She didn't realize that it was Sumario, and

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Speaker 1: she came running back in screaming, and then a group

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Speaker 1: of us ran out. She was pretty much inaudible what

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Speaker 1: she was screaming. We didn't know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: It was frantic, and we all ran out and didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it just you just don't even know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's just a very high stress and tragic event.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what's well, okay, let me ask you something,

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Speaker 1: mister Boorgess. I'm trying. I'm grappling with what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to understand it. She put the child

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Speaker 1: in the car. How could she not know that that

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Speaker 1: was the child? Well, then you didn't read and do

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Speaker 1: the research that you said, Ynswer, because if you read

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Speaker 1: anything of doctor Diamond, he explains it. It's the basil

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Speaker 1: gangular part of the brain where a brain goes on

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Speaker 1: the autopilot. It's very similar to planning too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to minimize this, but it's very similar

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Speaker 1: to planning to go to the the grocery store. So I'm

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Speaker 1: at work and it's four to thirty, and I think,

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Speaker 1: on the stop at the grocery store and pick up

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Speaker 1: some milk and eggs, and then I'm gonna go home.

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Speaker 1: And then I get home and realize I didn't pick

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Speaker 1: up milk and eggs, and I go, darn it. I

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Speaker 1: got to go back out and go to the store.

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Speaker 1: It's similar to when a doctor a surgeon is doing

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Speaker 1: surgery and leaves a sponge or an instrument inside of

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Speaker 1: a patient and seals them up. It's similar to one

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Speaker 1: an airline pilot forgets to put his landing gear down

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Speaker 1: and you know, hundreds of people are injured or tilt.

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Speaker 1: It's that part of the human brain that doesn't function

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Speaker 1: the way we wanted to. It goes onto an autopilot

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Speaker 1: where it affects the basil gangula and the hippocampus and

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Speaker 1: things like that. I didn't know any of this stuff

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Speaker 1: until I did the research. And that's what that's what's

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Speaker 1: happening now. Finally, as the awareness of this is starting

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Speaker 1: to come out, even automobile manufacturers are finally, after all

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Speaker 1: these years, trying to and starting to put sensors and

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Speaker 1: monitors in these vehicles because this doesn't just happen. Mister borgeous,

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Speaker 1: Mister borgeous, Okay, you are stating that, and instead of

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Speaker 1: pointing the finger at me and everyone else for not

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Speaker 1: rating your research, consider the fact that we have read

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Speaker 1: your research and questions I don't have. Yeah, well, you

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Speaker 1: keep saying I haven't read the research. Let me tell you,

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Speaker 1: I'm questioning the research because saying that I forgot to

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Speaker 1: get the milk and the eggs at the grocery store,

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Speaker 1: that's a far different claim than you claiming that she

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Speaker 1: had a brain malfunction. Forgetfulness is far different from a

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Speaker 1: physical malfunction in the human brain. Forgetting something and a

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Speaker 1: physical malfunction in the human brain are two very, very

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Speaker 1: different things. And it's my understanding that Brittany Renee reached

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Speaker 1: back and got something out of the car, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to reconcile how she didn't notice the child.

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Speaker 1: That's inaccurate. She didn't reach back, I can get anything

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Speaker 1: out of the vehicle that's not true, so that's fictitious.

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Speaker 1: So then you're saying that the reports are wrong. I

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Speaker 1: didn't say, like for getting to pick up eggs at

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Speaker 1: the grocery store. But it's kind of the same bring.

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Speaker 1: It is the same brain function and mauthfunction, and it's

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Speaker 1: the same reason that the doctor, like you didn't use

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Speaker 1: the doctor scenario when a surgeon, a professional that does

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Speaker 1: the surgeries leaves instruments and okay, I'll address that. You're

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Speaker 1: absolutely right, I'm using all the examples you gave, so

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Speaker 1: I will address that one. And as far as a doctor,

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Speaker 1: a physician leaving a spudge and a patient, that is

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Speaker 1: medical maupractice, which can be involuntary manslaughter, negligence that results

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Speaker 1: in a death. So yes, I will be happy to

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Speaker 1: address that example, sir. When a dodger does that and

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Speaker 1: that action results in a death, that is a a

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Speaker 1: civil lawsuit, be a potential criminal prosecution. That's right, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what this is. This is exactly to

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Speaker 1: your point. You're making a point here. Exactly that's what happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thank you. And when you kill somebody as a result

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Speaker 1: of negligence. Typically you go to jail. Now what goes

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Speaker 1: to try on anty? You know that your litigator, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to continue to do this interview because you

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Speaker 1: are trying to say sensationalize this and create more of

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Speaker 1: a tragedy. This is a terrible too. No, I'm using

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Speaker 1: your examples that you gave me. You gave me these examples.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand how it happened. And instead of

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Speaker 1: telling me how it happened, you're talking about a doctor

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Speaker 1: in surgery for getting milk and eggs. I'm asking you

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Speaker 1: about what happened that day so I can understand it.

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Speaker 1: I told you exactly what happened. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you want me to embellish it. But she drove to

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Speaker 1: work thinking, thinking that she did everything she was supposed

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Speaker 1: to do that morning. Everything was checked off her list

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Speaker 1: in her mind, and she came to work. And it's

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Speaker 1: called is called the forgotten baby syndrome. People lose awareness

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Speaker 1: of these things. It's a terrible tragedy. And there's like

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Speaker 1: I said, there's thirty eight of thees that happened on

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Speaker 1: averaging year, and you know she had. It's just a

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Speaker 1: terrible thing. I mean that's all you can say. There

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Speaker 1: is what else can I fill it? Where can I

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Speaker 1: fill in any blanks here? This is exactly what happened denying.

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Speaker 1: Now you could tell me about her assertation that she

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Speaker 1: was chronically sleep deprived. Yeah, she was planning to get it.

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Speaker 1: They were getting married, I mean, yeah, they were getting married.

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Speaker 1: They moved into a new home. She was she had

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Speaker 1: other children, She had a two year old little boy,

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Speaker 1: Sumaria's brother, and she was chronically sleep at ride. He

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Speaker 1: had an alternating schedule that was just bizarre to how

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Speaker 1: much it changed because Bill drove bus and his schedule changed,

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Speaker 1: and they had certain days that they took the kids,

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Speaker 1: certain days they didn't. The actually the schedule for when

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Speaker 1: Smaria was with him changed every couple of days, Like

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Speaker 1: they hadn't two days this week and two days the

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Speaker 1: next week, and it just rotated, so that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's definitely a factor, and that's what they find in

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Speaker 1: a lot of these Sometimes they'll take the kids, sometimes

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Speaker 1: take the kids. Sometimes she'd take one, sometimes she'd take two.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes she'd had to deal with all three of them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was a tremendous amount. The

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Speaker 1: very next day, was her bridal shower, which she th

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Speaker 1: reading that Facebook thing that she had, but they called

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Speaker 1: off all of that stuff, you know, they called off

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Speaker 1: the wedding, and so she had a lot on her mind. Absolutely, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: but I was hoping that this wouldn't really go this direction,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to said that it was going to

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Speaker 1: go more trying to raise awareness to have these tragedies

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Speaker 1: happen and why they keep happening. Well, let's take that

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Speaker 1: opportunity right now and you explain give your message that

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Speaker 1: you want people to hear, mister Borgis. Well, come down

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Speaker 1: to is that people that are caregivers and parents that

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Speaker 1: have children in their vehicles and they're taking them to

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Speaker 1: daycare of wherever they're taking them to um they need

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Speaker 1: to thankfully finally the automobile manufacturers or put these sensors in,

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Speaker 1: but they have to put something in the back of

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Speaker 1: the vehicle like a cell phone or something that reminds them.

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Speaker 1: So people there are starting that it's starting to come

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Speaker 1: out more where there are solutions for this to stop happening.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's there's some preventive measures in place, but

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Speaker 1: this time it really wasn't And again people people don't

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Speaker 1: think that this can happen. They can't imagine it. We

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Speaker 1: can't let ourselves imagine that we can do this. I

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Speaker 1: hear what you're saying, and I hear that you were

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Speaker 1: saying it was because of a brain malfunction. However, what

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Speaker 1: I don't understand is the fact that the law is

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Speaker 1: that when you make a mistake, even innocently, due to negligence.

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Speaker 1: Negligence means you don't intend it. You don't mean for

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Speaker 1: that to happen. That was not what you set out

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Speaker 1: to do. But because of negligent behavior, a death occurs,

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Speaker 1: and in this case, a taught a horrible, horrid death

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Speaker 1: that is provided for in the law, and that is

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Speaker 1: called involuntary manslaughter. No one is suggesting that Brittany Renee

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Speaker 1: Burgess intended to do this that day. The reality is

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Speaker 1: it was a negligent act she forgot. That equals involuntary manslaughter.

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Speaker 1: The child is dead, and the penalty for that is

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Speaker 1: jail time. So I think you, sir, instead of being

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Speaker 1: angry at me, I need to realize that, well, you

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Speaker 1: sound angry that people are concerned over a twenty five

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Speaker 1: dollars fine when a taught is dead because of negligent.

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Speaker 1: You can't see that. I'm not angry at you. This

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Speaker 1: is very emotionally charged situation. I'm not angry at you

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Speaker 1: at all. You're doing your job and you guys are

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Speaker 1: asking me questions, and I you know, it does get

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Speaker 1: a little spirited. Okay. I was not one of the

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Speaker 1: jurors on this trial. There were twelve people, twelve peers

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Speaker 1: that didn't know anything about the trial, didn't read anything

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, didn't know any of us, and they found

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Speaker 1: her not guilty of all three of the main charges.

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Speaker 1: And what I understand, this was quite an education, this

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Speaker 1: whole process. But is and I think you have a

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Speaker 1: legal background, and some of the people in the panel

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Speaker 1: do that. For those charges, there has to be an

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Speaker 1: awareness of conscious decision. So, in other words, for involuntary manslaughter,

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Speaker 1: Brittany had to walk away from that vehicle knowing that

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Speaker 1: she left the child in the vehicle. For any of

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Speaker 1: those charges, even for neglect, you have to know that

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Speaker 1: you walked away and said, oh, I'm gonna leave the

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Speaker 1: child in here, I'm gonna run in here for a minute,

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Speaker 1: and then you forget the child's in there afterwards. That

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, and twelve jurors looked at all of the

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Speaker 1: information on a three day trial and all the facts,

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Speaker 1: and watched the videos, they heard the nine one one pull,

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Speaker 1: and they all, you know, they found her not guilty

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Speaker 1: of those charges. The charge for the this is like

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Speaker 1: that summary charge that you're referring to. That shouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been part of this. That should have been something nailed.

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't know, but for some reason, the

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Speaker 1: judge said, there's this one last thing the rugs left

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Speaker 1: and he said, there's one last thing that needs cleared up,

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Speaker 1: and this is a summary charge is leaving a child

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Speaker 1: unattended in the vehicle. And he said, just basically, please

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Speaker 1: don't even fight it. So the attorney I didn't like

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Speaker 1: the whole idea of that. I mean, I didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what's going on. But then they said, you know

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Speaker 1: that the twelve dollars or the twenty five dollars was

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Speaker 1: the charge, and that, my god, you know when that

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Speaker 1: came out in the paper, of course, that's gonna infuriate people.

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Speaker 1: Be sure if I was, you know, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: I lost a child like this, well, mister board, Jess,

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Speaker 1: I want to tell you one thing, and that is

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Speaker 1: I missed my father every single day of my life.

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Speaker 1: He was my soul mate. We did everything together. And

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Speaker 1: if I was in the position that Brittany Renee is

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Speaker 1: in right now, my father would be defending me tooth.

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Speaker 1: And now I understand where you're coming from completely. I

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Speaker 1: disagree with you, but I understand what you're saying, and

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Speaker 1: I understand the defense that you are discussing. And please

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Speaker 1: pass on to your daughter for me that she is

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Speaker 1: a very lucky lady to have a father like you. Well,

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Speaker 1: for one thing, he didn't go to jail, and you're

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Speaker 1: defending her, and I would say that that is very lucky. Hi,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here, have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors,

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Speaker 1: somebody at work, a crush? Fifty seven percent of Americans

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00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 1: admit to keeping an eye on their own online reputation.

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Speaker 1: Forty six admit to using the Internet to look up

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Speaker 1: somebody from their past. But Google and Facebook the tip

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00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 1: of the iceberg when it comes to finding personal information.

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00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: There's an innovative new website called truth Finder. It's now

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Speaker 1: in seconds for sensitive data like criminal traffic arrest records.

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Speaker 1: Find the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. The caregiver

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Speaker 1: of a little girl who died in a hot car

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Speaker 1: two years ago, will only have to pay a twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars fine. A jury found at Brittany Borges from

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Speaker 1: South Williamsport not guilty of all but one charge. Prosecutors

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Speaker 1: had accused her of, among other things, involuntary manslaughter, but

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Speaker 1: jurors only found her guilty of leaving a child unattended

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Speaker 1: in a car. Her punishment is that twenty five dollars fine.

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Speaker 1: Williamsport police say Borges forgot to drop the four year

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Speaker 1: old off at daycare on a ninety seven degree summer

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Speaker 1: day and left the girl in the car for hours.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing from wnep's coverage a tiny tot dead

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Speaker 1: Smara Matya after being left in a sweltering suv for

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Speaker 1: at least six hours. Her dad's girlfriend, Brittany Renee Burgess,

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Speaker 1: walks scot free with just a twenty five dollar fine.

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Speaker 1: What a child goes through during a hot car death

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Speaker 1: is horrific. I remember investigating and covering such cases where

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Speaker 1: the child strapped in a car seat actually clause at

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Speaker 1: its own face, blood coming down its face, bucking back

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Speaker 1: and forth, trying to get out of the car seat,

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Speaker 1: the stifling heat. There's no air to breathe until the

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Speaker 1: child dies. That's what happened. That's the reality of what happened.

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Speaker 1: We just heard from Brittany Renee Burgess's father, Vic Burgess,

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Speaker 1: who glosses over the taughts gruesome death, blaming his daughter's

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Speaker 1: actions on a quote brain malfunction, comparing it too forgetting

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Speaker 1: to get milk and eggs at the grocery store, or

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Speaker 1: medical malpractice where a doctor leaves a sponge inside of

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Speaker 1: a patient. Okay, I'm not by I'm not going along

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Speaker 1: with that at all. Let me understand exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: Lee Egan joining me journalists investigative reporter with Crime Online

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Speaker 1: Dot com Lee. Many many insiders state that Brittany Renee

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Speaker 1: Burgess reached it and got something out. Okay, the father says,

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Speaker 1: that's inaccurate. Tell me what you know, Lee, as to

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Speaker 1: what happened that day, the day Samaria sweltered to death.

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Speaker 1: I'm here, Nancy. Early in the morning, Brittany took her

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Speaker 1: toddler son to daycare. First Samaria and her little boy.

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Speaker 1: They went to different daycares for whatever reason. The mother

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Speaker 1: told me it was because she wanted Samaria in the

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Speaker 1: same daycare because it's closer to her own home. But

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Speaker 1: so Brittany brought her boy to his daycare, dropped him

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Speaker 1: off just fine, forgot Samaria and drove straight past her

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Speaker 1: daycare to her employment, which was about five miles away

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Speaker 1: from her home. She backed into a parking lot, so

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Speaker 1: she did have to look behind her to back into

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Speaker 1: this parking lot. Samaria was in the back seat in

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Speaker 1: a booster seat. Kay Lee Egan, let me understand, you

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Speaker 1: were saying that Brittany Renee Borges backed in her car

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Speaker 1: that day, so she had to look back. You're also

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Speaker 1: telling me that the baby Samaria was in the back seat.

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Speaker 1: This is an SUV. Was she in the seat directly

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Speaker 1: behind the driver. Or was she in the way back,

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Speaker 1: the third back, the third seat, the far back by

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Speaker 1: the hatchback? Which seat was she? And Lee, if you know, no,

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Speaker 1: she was directly behind her. I'm just thinking about this, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So she's driving, she's backing up. She either looks back

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Speaker 1: in her rear view mirror or actually turns around and

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Speaker 1: looking back. My kids, my children always sit in the

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Speaker 1: same spot. John David sits directly behind me. And when

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Speaker 1: I turned back and look, Caddy cornered, I see Lucy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: sorry about that. I just wanted to understand what you

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Speaker 1: were saying. Okay, go ahead, Lee, And according to court documents,

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Speaker 1: she didn't look in her window. She actually turned back

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Speaker 1: to back into the parking lot. So she looked it

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Speaker 1: backwards to go into the park And you reviewed the

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Speaker 1: court documents yourself, Lee, is that correct? Yeah? So Lee,

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Speaker 1: she backs in, looks back. Then what happens to your

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Speaker 1: understanding and then to my understanding, she gets out of

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Speaker 1: the car, She shuts the car, and there was also

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Speaker 1: a security camera directly looking right where she parked. She

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Speaker 1: shuts the door and she walks away. Six and a

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Speaker 1: half hours later, she walks back to the car. She

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Speaker 1: looks inside and she sees Samaria laying in the front seat,

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Speaker 1: slumped over with her head resting on the passenger seat.

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Speaker 1: She starts screaming. He runs inside to get help, and

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Speaker 1: then the person that came out but trying to help

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Speaker 1: her is But I believe they were trying to get

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Speaker 1: her out while the girlfriend was on the phone calling

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Speaker 1: nine to one. Okay, let me backtrack just a moment,

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Speaker 1: joining me right now. In addition to Lee Egan with

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com, Ashley Wilcot juvenile judge, founder of

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Speaker 1: Childcrimewatch dot com on Facebook, and Ashley Wilcot dot com,

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, private investigator, former author of Playbook to a Murder,

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Speaker 1: Susan Constantine, human behavior expert, let me go first to you,

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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot. You know, I feel bad for the dad.

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Speaker 1: I understand why he's so combative and angry defending his daughter,

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Speaker 1: but this doesn't smell right to me. I don't like

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Speaker 1: it one darn bit. This case is disturbing to me

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Speaker 1: on so many levels. It is true that nationwide they're

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Speaker 1: been probably thirty plus child deaths from being left in

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Speaker 1: a car. That doesn't excuse it. That doesn't allow it

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Speaker 1: a scientific diagnosis, that means it doesn't need to happen

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Speaker 1: at a minimum. At a minimum, it is child endangerment

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Speaker 1: at a minimum. But it really is negligence even if

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Speaker 1: someone literally forgot their child, which is very hard for

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Speaker 1: me to understand how anyone can do that. I do

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Speaker 1: juvenile law. I'm on the bench. I don't understand how

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Speaker 1: you forget your child. But assuming it's true someone legitimately

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Speaker 1: forgets their child and times of high stress, etc. It

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00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: is still negligence and child endangerment. It took all I

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Speaker 1: could do to bite my tongue while speaking with her father,

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Speaker 1: because it's not her father's fault. He's defending her. I

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Speaker 1: disagree with him three and I hate to attack him.

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Speaker 1: But claiming this is a brain malfunction, this woman, Brittany Reneebor,

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Speaker 1: just had no history at all before or since of

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Speaker 1: a brain malfunction. And the examples he gave are simple forgetfulness.

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Speaker 1: There's no phenomena, And saying there's thirty eight such deaths

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Speaker 1: a year in the US three hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 1: point seven million people three hundred million people live in

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Speaker 1: the US, they're thirty eight such deaths. That's thirty eight

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Speaker 1: negligent homicides. Okay, I'm just having a really hard time

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Speaker 1: trying to connect with this woman. Brittany renee Borges Susan

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Speaker 1: Constantine with me. Human behavior expert, Susan, you heard the dad.

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Speaker 1: You know the facts as Lee Egan has laid them

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Speaker 1: out for you. Weigh in, Yeah, you know, three different times, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you asked him what happened that day, and the first time,

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Speaker 1: when you try to end, he says, well, in my mind,

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Speaker 1: so he couldn't answer in her mind or what she

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Speaker 1: told me or what happened. That he paused and hesitated

424
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: several times and never really did answer the questions because

425
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't really know. And then he says, you know,

426
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to minimize this. Well, that's exactly what

427
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: he was doing. He was minimizing it. So he was

428
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: banking on the forensic science. That's what felt safe for him,

429
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: because if the forensic science expert said that this is

430
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: what happened, then that's looked good enough for me, and

431
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: that releas his guilt also. But we also know that

432
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: people that were found not guilty doesn't mean that they're

433
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: innocent and just because twelve jurors found her not guilty,

434
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: tells me there wasn't a very good, strong team of

435
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: experts that to be able to provide opposing arguments. Well,

436
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: here's another issue that I'm trying to figure out. Even

437
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: if she had a quote brain malfunction, I a forgot

438
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: when she got out of the car six hours us past.

439
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 1: During that time, nobody remembers. She never remembers the baby.

440
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: I mean, for example, this morning, I've been worried all

441
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: morning Ashley Willcot, you know, because the twins have safety patrol.

442
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: It's twenty seven degrees outside. I've thought about their fingers

443
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: and their head, and Lucy's beer legs and her darned

444
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: scort ever since I took them to school. No matter

445
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: how many times I said, you need to wear tights, No,

446
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: she had to go bare legged because she'd rather freeze

447
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: than have people think she looks weird. And tights or

448
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: a hat for that matter. I even carried them and

449
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: handed them to her as she was getting out. In

450
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: no way, no, not gonna happen. And I have thought

451
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: about that. It was all I could do to wrestle

452
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: two coats onto her. Now John David has covered up,

453
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, like he's wearing a barca. He doesn't mind.

454
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: He'd wear a blanket over his head. He couldn't care less.

455
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: But I thought about them a hundred times since that happened, Ashley,

456
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: how do you go six hours and not think, Oh,

457
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven, I left the baby in the car.

458
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't there that one split second. No, I don't know.

459
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't get it. I don't understand it.

460
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me. How can you, I

461
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: think at some point you say, oh my gosh, Oh

462
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: my gosh, what's happened to my child. I didn't go

463
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: to the ten minutes later, five minutes later, three minutes later,

464
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I forgot to drop my child. So

465
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: I think it's I don't get it. The twenty eight

466
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: year old Brittany reneed Bourgess parked tor suv at the

467
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: rear of a downtown business where there was no shade

468
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: at all, leaving the four year old talk buckled into

469
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: a booster seat in the back. Six and a half

470
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: hours later, she finds Samaria unconscious on the floor of

471
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: the suv. That child had tried to live and get

472
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: out of that car. She had climbed out of her

473
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: booster seat to the front seat. Inside the car's interior,

474
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: the temperature was upwards of one hundred and twenty degrees.

475
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: When they measured Samaria's internal temperature, it was a hundred

476
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: and ten degrees inside her body. And that was after

477
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: she got to the hospital. What was it while she

478
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: was still in the car? Vincent Hill a private investigator

479
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: author a playbook to a murderer. Vincent Hill, you're a

480
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: former cop in a metropolitan area. How can this not

481
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: result in jail time? Nancy? I think we're all the

482
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: futtled by that. I mean, because the law is quite

483
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: clear and intentional killing resulting from recklessness or negligence, and

484
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: the fact that she left her four year old in

485
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: the car meets that criteria. And the fact that that

486
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: four year old was at least smart enough to get

487
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: out of that car seat to try to get to

488
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: the front to get some shade, that tells you what

489
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: she suffered for for six hours, Nancy. So how this

490
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: jury came back with this verdict? Take a listen for

491
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: just one moment to doctor Ernie Ward. He's a veterinarian

492
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: and he is describing his experience. He sat in a

493
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: hot car for thirty minutes. Listen to what he endured,

494
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: and this is as it relates to dogs, to animals,

495
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 1: not tiny children. Twenty five minutes. It's now, oh gosh,

496
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: what is it? One hundred and thirteen degrees. It's it's awful.

497
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: The only thought that's going through my head right now

498
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: is I just I went out of the car. You know.

499
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: It's just everything in my body is saying, get out,

500
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: get out, get out. I can just feel rivulets of

501
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: sweat just cleaning down my body. I don't know if

502
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: you can tell, but I mean, I'm just I'm fully

503
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: drenched now. I have sweat just completely cascading down my

504
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,719
Speaker 1: face and nose, my lips. You're helpless. You have no

505
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: control over what's happening. You don't understand what's happening. You

506
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: just know that your body is getting so overheated that

507
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: you can be in real danger. I mean, this kills

508
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: straight Back to Ashley Wilcot, juvenile judge found her a

509
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: child crime watch on Facebook and Ashley Willcott dot com. Ashley,

510
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: there's one little detail that I'd like you and Vincent,

511
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: Susan and lead away in on apparently we're just told

512
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: police she had forgotten the children in the past. She

513
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: had forgotten them in the past, this isn't the first time,

514
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 1: and she told cops she was upset that day over

515
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: an upcoming bridal shower. Really, here's why I need to

516
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: weigh in the father of the children. I can't imagine

517
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: his heart break at losing this child. But she was

518
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: a caretaker. You've got to use extracaution in seeking out

519
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: caregivers and caretakers to watch your children. Good Lord, she's

520
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: forgotten them before, or she's upset and she forgets children

521
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: in the car, knowing that she disclosed it's happened before.

522
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 1: She should never, never, never have children in her care

523
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: in her car period. What about Susan Constantine. I was

524
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: bowled over when I found out she apparently had told

525
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: cops she had forgotten them before. Yeah, you know that

526
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: that past behavior predicts future behavior. So to me, that's

527
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: telling me that she's got an issue with it, that

528
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: this is just a ticking time boond that's going to happen,

529
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: And now here's the results of it. We have a deadbeat,

530
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: you know. I think that if the jury had known

531
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: about the previous incidents, Vincent Hill, author of playbook To

532
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: a Murderer, and the details of those incidents, there may

533
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: have been a different outcome. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. You know

534
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: it's one thing to say you had to bring cramp

535
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: because you can't find your keys, but when you say, oh,

536
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: I've forgotten my kids in the car before, had that

537
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: jury heard that, you're absolutely right. I think she would

538
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: have been convicted of involuntary manslaughter. What do we know

539
00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: about what the jury knew to? Lee Egan regarding the

540
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 1: previous instance that she herself detailed A lot of things

541
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: we're not allowed in the trial, such as there are

542
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: a lot of accusations about child abuse. The mother had

543
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: called Department of Family and Children's Services before several times.

544
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: That was thrown out. I don't believe that the incident

545
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: about her leaving the children in the car before was

546
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: allowed in so they were just going based off this

547
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: incident alone. Okay, Well, let me understand something I did

548
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: not realize. Are you saying d facts had been called, Yes,

549
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: Department of Family and Children's Services. What can you tell

550
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: me about that, Lee, Well, Sarah Fox, that's Samaria's mother.

551
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: She took up several pictures of Samaria and she did

552
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: show them to me. And I can't say for shorts abuse,

553
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: but she had a bruise across her face, she had

554
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: some bruising on her legs. And then another photo she

555
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: was covered almost head to feet in what looked like

556
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: flea bites or bug bites. Now, she took this, all

557
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: this information to d facts, but there wasn't enough yet

558
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: to do anything, so it was unfounded. Now, Sarah says

559
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: she was still in the process of trying to pursue

560
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: all of this when the baby died. So at that point,

561
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: since there was nothing sounded, they wouldn't allow it in

562
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: the courtroom. You know, I heard the father lashing out

563
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: at the Justice for Samaria web page, the Facebook page,

564
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: and I've looked at it several times, and it refers

565
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: to in some of the posts. Quote, there have been

566
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: many incidents that many do not know about that have

567
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: led up to this tragic event. I wonder, you know

568
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: this is your specialty, Ashley Willcott, If that's what they're

569
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: talking about, the previous calls to de facts that were

570
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: not allowed in That's what I wonder too, because listen, now,

571
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I have all kinds of questions. I have

572
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: all kinds of issues with this particular set of facts.

573
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: I wonder too, if that's what they're discussing those previous

574
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: calls to defacts. Is it related to the facts she

575
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: left the child in the car directly know? Is it

576
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence that she has a history of potentially abusing

577
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: these children, neglecting these children, and specifically leaving a child

578
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: in a car which isn't neglect Absolutely? Boy, does this

579
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: case get me? I mean, isn't a life worth more

580
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: than twenty five dollars? Susan Constantine? Absolutely? I mean that

581
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: I would rather have been zero than twenty five dollars.

582
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: The twenty five dollars It's just it's humiliating. I mean

583
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: that a life was lost and the judge applied to

584
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: twenty five twenty five dollars fee buying. It's just it's preposterous.

585
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 1: No wonder people are protesting the outcome of this trial.

586
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: Will there ever be justice for Samaria? Nancy Grace Crime

587
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: Story signing off Goodbye friend,